Proofs for Gospels You've Never Thought Of! w/ Dr. John Bergsma

📺 Full Episode: • YES! The Bible is Reli...
Dr. Bergsma talks about small things in the Gospels that would be nearly impossible if the authors were not who the Church says they are.
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[@JabberW00kie]

Something else Dr. Bergsma did not mention is that we have several very early church fathers who were themselves students or friends of the apostles quoting the Gospels and most of the other New Testament writings within their own writings. Not only that, we have the Didache referencing the New Testament, which was written extremely early in the church’s history.

[@TheSulross]

indeed, is highly likely that the Didache dates to 1st century because it clearly dates to a timeframe when churches were in processes of being founded and so it's like a church manual - that would have been essential - prior to a hiearchy of church organization supplanting that. Interesting thing too, is that the section on The Way of Death list things going on in surrounding Heelonistic culture that are all the same moral degeneracies that dominate the secular culture of today.

[@MadolcheGabbana]

And a lot of that is along the lines of the EPISTLE of Barnabas, and the Book of Enoch.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

Then why’d they get rid of all the other early writings?

[@MadolcheGabbana]

@@yoeyyoey8937 Masons infiltrated and ruined it like they did everything and have everything they touched Islam Mormonism Scientology US System Etc

[@hotconcrete]

@@yoeyyoey8937The Church councils determined the 27 books we have were inspired writings, whereas, the other books were determined to be inspired.

[@timrichardson4018]

I was a devout evangelical growing up and lost my faith about age 25, and came back to faith about age 30 (Catholic now; different story). I read about biblical scholarship voraciously. I finally understood that though there is a lot of good evidence for New Testament reliability, that it was written very early and likely by eye witnesses of Jesus, the final move into belief is a matter of personal conviction followed by a choice. One can hear the evidence all day. All the evidence points to the reliability of the New Testament. But as highly important as that is, it only gets you so far. At the end of the road of evidence, you have to decide. Do you believe what it's saying? How does one decide that? Not based purely on evidence at that point (no one believes anything purely on evidence). One is either compelled by the message or not. Does the message speak to you and move you to believe it? And if it does, do you choose to accept it? That's the point of conversion. Empiricism points you in the right direction, but faith moves you through the door.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

I appreciate your honesty and I agree with your observations. Peace...

[@sammilandi8799]

"Empiricism points you in the right direction, but faith moves you through the door." That is a great line and so true. I may be quoting you in the future.

[@johnyoung6254]

One of the fruits of God's spirit indwelling within us is faith. I don't exactly know why I so strongly believe but I give God the credit that I do.

[@krismikewill]

I took a course on New Testament textual criticism when studying for my PhD. It was open to graduate students studying for their M.Div. How many students were in the class? Two. During the spring term for the same course? Three. The point is that with hundreds of potential students, only five in an academic year took the course. Bergsma is covering lots of "basic" material here that, unfortunately, lay Christians and their pastors (of any tradition) are ignorant of and fall prey to hostile critics who can lie with numbers and statistics. The text of the NT is incredibly stable and reliable. Skeptics are correct to attack the reliability of the text as it passed through history in order to attack faith. But it's disingenuous. On the flip side, a reliable text does not necessitate the truth of the contents. That's where faith appears.

[@caesarborgia4012]

" Nobody believes something only on evidence "!!! It's paradoxal..... long in short, im a believer and your point on faith, totally agree.... but this sentence.... in courts, the judges believe evidences, when you, or any man in history, doubt about anything, simple affirmation of an all days topics, you ask for evidences, even children between them, lying and exagerating, can prove what they say by ......evidences! Agréé?

[@holysmoke3201]

Hi Matt, you are a great interviewer - always clarifying important points and interjecting without being rude or disruptive to the discussion!! Keep up the great work bro!

[@chrisschoonmaker4068]

Dr. Bergsma is one of the great minds of our times along with Brandt Pitre, Scott Hahn and Michael Barber..Great work thank you.. Dominus Vobiscum!

[@jamesmonahan9408]

YES! Dr Brant is captivating. Both Dr John & Dr Brant are fabulous

[@goawaypleasethanks]

The more proof I see, the more I freakin LOVE Jesus, AND GOD. GOD gave us the bread crumbs. He has faith in those of us less foolish to not ignore him and keep searching for his clues. He left so many he knows it all cannot be destroyed or hidden enough to stop us. Hes real, so we will keep finding proof. Guys.... GOD GAVE US THE COOLEST DETECTIVE PROJECT EVER!!!!!!! AND ITS STILL GOING! LETS KEEP PROVING MORE!!!!

[@lukasmakarios4998]

Wow! That's great! I always wondered who was that person running away naked from the Garden of Gethsemane, and why was he only wearing a linen sheet. The connection with the Essenes explains so much, and that it was the writer himself explains why it's there in the first place. An embarrassing incident revealing the authors place in the narrative. Perfect! So the Gospels really were written by eye witnesses who saw the events and knew the Apostles in person. I remember asking my Dad, when I was about 5, why the disciples didn't write about Jesus when He was still here. Finding this kind of stuff in the Gospels tells me that maybe some of it was written down. The Apostles would have been telling the story in pieces, to whomever would listen for however long they had time to sit. They would have needed notes for the parables and long teachings. For example maybe, the Sermon on the Mount, even if it was originally in pieces. Jesus could really have done a great speech right before the miracle of the loaves and fishes, and then crossed over the Lake to repeat it just a bit different for the gentiles the way Luke wrote it. It was only when they realized that the witnesses were dying off, from persecution or the long wait for Jesus to return, that they decided to write it all down as a connected story, so it wouldn't be forgotten the way they remembered to tell it. John had read one or more of the synoptics, so he wrote down what he felt they had left out, making his own points about signs that Jesus had the Father's authority to teach, and that He was divine Himself. So, in effect, the Apostles did write it down, and we have the whole story.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

It still doesn’t make sense if you think about it and if you read it in Greek it makes less sense the way he is describing it

[@bradleytarr2482]

Dr. John is always shining in Books and in Interviews. I like his solo lectures too, but he is dazzling in the midst of conversations.

[@jeffreysharp8526]

Excellent video. Thank you so much for your efforts. I wasn't aware of the tidbit about Mark. The fact that a tiny portion of John's gospel was found in Egypt has been known & I look forward to similar finds in the future. Thanks again for all your work. Pax

[@au8363]

Glory To The Holy Trinity

[@hughchancey4141]

His answer is wrong……it’s not because of supernatural events…..it’s because it is Truth. That is the reason it is held to different standard….it’s a strategy to fight against the Gospel. Great video.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

That doesn’t make sense. If it was true it wouldn’t need to be held to a lower standard

[@AS-fu1kd]

Honestly, the 1 off statements that lead nowhere are my favorites in the Bible. When they just make a random note of some seemingly completely meaningless things. Always makes me chuckle.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

What makes me chuckle is when people don’t realize that these occur as clear instances of editing and censorship

[@Braingrandchild]

Umm, this was BRILLIANT. Thank you so much for the explanation on the streaker in Mark! It was a hang up for me for a while there lol. Amazing. I'd love to know how the Essenes became the Carmelites?

[@standupstathentes6842]

It's more like the Essenes considered themselves a continuation of the Prophets who had been gathered by Elijah, and the Carmelites see themselves as a continuation of that tradition. trained under

[@yoeyyoey8937]

I don’t think it was Mark or it wasn’t fully explained. The linen fabric was described as a ritual or medicinal textile in the original Greek, not as clothing. Also why would he have to streak and why give up his only clothing?

[@2GTBG1]

@@yoeyyoey8937 It was the Apostle John because he was the youngest of all. Dr. Bergsma meant mark as a mark sign.

[@jjlearned]

​@@2GTBG1 he actually meant Mark, the actual name of the gospel writer is John, but since there were many Johns that day, he was called Mark or Marcus (you can read about John called Mark in the book of Acts)

[@war13death]

I didn't know there were so many manuscripts. Last I knew it was over 4000, now I learn it's way more than that.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

If you count the ones that were arbitrarily censored by the church then it’s far more than that

[@spleenery]

I would love to read a whole book that points out and explains all these little "tidbits" in the New Testament. Fascinating stuff!

[@sgtbaker81]

Naked Bible podcast.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

You should read unbiased accounts because these people will take any leaf off a nearby tree and explain how it came from the Bible

[@CosmicalChrist]

​@@yoeyyoey8937 What part of the Greek in Mark 14 indicates it has anything to do with medicine?

[@Ikthus]

Read The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel

[@TheSulross]

the small things of the Gospels are huge in import - love this kind of discussion!!!

[@janetmcgrath8426]

I have always wondered about those two verses in Mark! Thank you, Dr. Bergsma, for finally giving us an explanation about what was going on in that situation.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

He might be a bit off. The Greek describes it as a ritual or medicinal textile, not as an item of clothing

[@tokr72]

@@yoeyyoey8937Wouldn't the religious garment of an Essene be described as a ritual textile? It wasn't a normal clothing item.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

@@tokr72 it could be if it was an essene but we don’t know for sure and also he wouldn’t be running and losing his ONLY garment

[@jimmieoakland3843]

I have always wondered about the young man in the linen garment, and why it was included in the gospel. Thanks for explaining it.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

If you read it in Greek the story seems a lot different than what was described here. The linen cloth is described as a medicinal and ritual textile rather than an item of clothing. It actually suggests that Jesus was involved in some kind of mystical or healing ritual with the boy, not so much that it was Mark identifying himself. The pit of context nature is due to the fact that the rest of the story seemed to be removed from the scriptures

[@skavihekkora5039]

The number of gospel manuscripts clearly prooves how sensational it was for people in those time. It was viral.

[@michaelhaywood8262]

I have seen somewhere that Mark's parents owned the upper room, were the Last Supper was held and where the Apostles waited between the Ascension and Pentecost and that Mark was the boy who lost his coat.

[@Fassnight]

Just speculation really

[@paxvobiscum9859]

Love listening to Dr Bergsma. He is such a phenomenally knowledgeable and rational man. I always learn so much.

[@antonellatotino2794]

Incredible. God's plan!!

[@christinemcguiness9356]

Great video🙏

[@JohnVander70]

Great information, love it.

[@johncopper5128]

Thank you.

[@WolfgangPlaschg]

Terrific interview, thank you so much!

[@johannpopper1493]

This is a fun and interesting interview. Thank you!

[@danielanthony8373]

Great discussion

[@malcolmevans2437]

So interesting and helpful, thank you 🙏

[@williamroberts34]

Loved it. Great job.

[@elmerzavala2878]

Great vid 👍

[@ProdigalSon684]

Thanks!! That’s a whole bunch of insight in a small amount of time!

[@DanyTV79]

Excellent explanation. This interview is gold.

[@Dessert1st]

So interesting. Thank you.

[@sethgardner4453]

Mark being an Essene and being in the Garden with Jesus is awesome to think about

[@Fuzcapp]

The reason the bar is so high for the Gospels and NT, is that, for extraordinary claims we need extraordinary evidence. Fortunately, the NT is so extraordinary, believers made sure that the extraordinary evidence was left for us to find.

[@christopherpatitsas4193]

Fascinating!

[@gentz8310]

One word: WOW!

[@VladM174]

Great video

[@jamesmonahan9408]

Dr John Bergsma is so great to learn from.

[@petehoyle8687]

Just to add to that: Certain Church Fathers who wrote commentaries on the gospels stated that tradition had it that the home of the evangelist Mark's family, which was situated in Gethsemane, was a frequent gathering gathering place for Christ and his close disciples which explains why this uninvited young man in no garments would be suddenly present in the middle of the night. They imply that the commotion roused his from his bed and sent him outside, not yet fully clothed. It's been a while since I encountered this, but if anyone is interested, I believe Blessed Theophylact of Ochrid is one who I read this in. Also St. John Chrysostom. Like I said, it's been a while but I'm 80% sure those are the sources in which I encountered this explanation

[@PatriciaStephens-ou9hf]

Wow! Very interesting points.

[@gather.sip.flourish]

Awesomeness

[@collegepennsylvania837]

"God can't give us peace and happiness apart from Himself because there is no such thing.” - CS Lewis "If we find ourselves with a desire that nothing in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that we were made for another world.” - CS Lewis Key To Eternal Life: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4vHp2CKqc6Aock

[@notthefbi7932]

Mel Brooks photo bombed the passion painting duh 🙄

[@aaronjackson6880]

It’s good to be the king

[@notthefbi7932]

@@aaronjackson6880 😁😉 Best mulled wine ever, according to Judas 😂

[@yoeyyoey8937]

That’s more believable than a guy misinterpreting Greek scripture

[@CPATuttle]

This is a good episode

[@giovannigennaro9732]

Intriguing.

[@theresabrooks7901]

Always wanted an explaination of this naked person in this passage. Thanks for offering this explanation.

[@geoffreytotton1983]

Good detective work

[@paul7239]

Hi Matt I think you are doing a great job, I like your videos a lot. Just 2 things: In your "Stop Adding to the Rosary" video it sounded like you were making fun of a Marian song. Also, please change the thumbnail because it may be an occasion of sin for some. Please keep up the good work you are encouraging those in the Faith spreading the Faith to others. May Jesus be with you! -Paul

[@johnthetenor]

Hey friends!

[@ParanormalTheology]

One of the things I heard was that the single garment dude was someone who was spontaneously raised from the dead and ran up to Christ in his burial cloth.

[@Fassnight]

Nothing to support that idea

[@Gutslinger]

I heard that theory as well, but I can't remember the reasoning. I think the reasoning had something to do with them being near a graveyard, and Jesus saying "I Am", which caused some kind of commotion. Idk. 🤷‍♂️

[@ParanormalTheology]

@@Gutslinger Yeah something like that. The person I was watching mentions how sometimes people spontaneously raise from the dead when Christ performs certain miracles in the NT I think.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

That is more likely than what the guy explained here. The Greek word for the linen fabric is not the word they use for clothing, it instead refers to a medicinal or ritual textile; which implies that Jesus was performing mystic rites of some sort, not randomly seeing some kid who lost his only piece of clothes (which makes no sense you have to admit)

[@yoeyyoey8937]

@@Fassnightthe original language supports this

[@danielwidyanto5142]

Don't forget, St John said he run faster than St Peter when they heard that Jesus' body has gone from the tomb.. I'm very positive this is like some kind of brothers rivalry that wouldn't pen down from 3rd person perspective

[@alonsoACR]

John was a teenager, Peter was probably around the age of the Lord and the leader to boot, so John waited despite being faster. But it could also be brother's rivalry. John always seemed to hang out with his (actual) older brother and with Peter.

[@danielwidyanto5142]

@@alonsoACR True. One of the facts about the gospel authenticity is how the apostles age (which is often passed as an oral tradition) matches how it portrays in the bible. At one point, the temple guard asked Jesus & his companion for the temple tax, which Jesus asked Peter 'who should pay for the tax? The people or the foreigner'. He then asked Peter to fish, and get two coins from the fish mouth to pay the tax, one for Jesus and one for Peter. How about the rest? They were probably deemed too young to pay for the tax (Rules in Deuteronomy said that men above 20yo need to pay temple tax.. means the other disciples most probably in their teens when it happens).

[@yoeyyoey8937]

I think it’s editing to give them a hierarchy of importance to establish how later worshippers interact with these figures.

[@alonsoACR]

@@yoeyyoey8937 This verse was written by John though.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

@@alonsoACR yes, so? That makes it more biased in that case cause why would I say that I ran slower than someone else? (Ofc given the assumption that the original text has not been tampered with in any way)

[@KittyM-]

Because this ancient document says How to live and Why. Questioned by people who don't want to do it!

[@shermano2153]

Hi Matt, I wish he would say "written" manuscripts, if he means before the printing press.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

That is by definition what a manuscript is. Hand writing

[@zinhlemaluleke1627]

Dope

[@nickguillem1040]

THIS IS A GOOD AFFIRMATION OF OUR FAITH for the faithful!..but citing egyptian or akkadian culture to unbelievers is never a good idea.

[@CeLIfUbIaC420]

Nothing clever to add, just helping the metrics. I very much enjoy your videos. Take care.

[@avoosl]

In addition to the way John Mark (almost) surreptitiously inserts himself, it resembles the way John refers to himself in (almost) disguised fashion as "the disciple whom Jesus loved."

[@ferrywijaya2557]

What Dr. Bergsma said, "That document spreads like wildfire" is actually means "Gospel spread like wildfire". Somehow knowing this, I'm very happy... or joyful for some reason.

[@MapleBoarder78]

Excellent stuff! For a deeper dive into this subject, check out Lydia McGrew’s work. 👍🏼 She does an excellent job breaking down a lot of the seemingly mundane or “uninteresting” details that actually highlight the authenticity of the New Testament writers. God bless.

[@Sunburst6520]

Matthew 13:18-23 18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

[@torbreww]

John the Baptist is sometimes considered to be similar to the Essenes, but I’ve never heard about the Apostle John being an Essene, except for this theory about his one piece linen garment.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

Isn’t this about mark and not John? And also this guy is wrong because the Greek scripture doesn’t describe this as a piece of clothing

[@torbreww]

@@yoeyyoey8937 yes you are right, the story is in Mark, so we don’t know who it is. You are also correct that it was simply ‘a linen’ cloth, and not necessarily a full garment. Good points.

[@erojerisiz1571]

11:56 was Mark an Essene?

[@caesarborgia4012]

Personaly, i always felt the autobiographic signature of Marc as obvious, but as a far more declared humility, because essencialy he admits in this verse (only gospel where you find that) "yes i was there, a disciple and a wealthy one, too much to lose, and till the end ofmydays, i will regret my coward act of ,after swearing fidelity to follow him even through death, being on the very moment, i acted like men do, i didn't show greatness, my soul was very common on this second i even abandonned my clothes and ran naked with no pudeur, and for a hyerosalamitan man in these times.......i dont have to precise" Humility through telling naked truth.

[@erickbren8702]

I know it's true because it's written in my soul

[@HellNoMoreBiden]

I can feel the Spirit also.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

When did God make your soul ?

[@HellNoMoreBiden]

@@yoeyyoey8937 Before you realized that you had one.

[@erickbren8702]

I believe it was created at the beginning of time but I don't know tbh. When do you think it was created? @@yoeyyoey8937

[@catholicguy1073]

To me there’s a high bar because of the subject matter. What is required of us IF God exists. It’s okay to be wrong about a document someone says comes from Plato or Ceasar.

[@WaterCat5]

The conversation is also just not good. Manuscripts are one piece of the puzzle. There is archeological evidence for Caesar's Galic wars. There is no such evidence for Jesus or any supernatural claim in the bible.

[@Fassnight]

​@WaterCat5 How exactly would you expect there to be archeological evidence like that? Jesus was essentially a nomad. Having unreasonable expectations and claiming there is not super-evidence is just a play at insincerity

[@catholicguy1073]

@@Fassnight I didn’t say for me. And in my View there is very good evidence for the existence of Jesus and his followers there’s archeological evidence that is corroboration of the NT and very good evidence that the NT was written by eye witnesses and scribes who were disciples of eye witnesses like Mark and Luke. My point was people place such an unreasonably high bar because of the practical implications of how they should live there lives if Jesus is in fact God. It’s a bit different than whether Ceasar authored some work or other historical figure. Does that make sense?

[@catholicguy1073]

@@WaterCat5 there is archeological evidence that supports claims in the NT and the Bible as a whole. They name places, events and people and many claims have been verified. So to say there is none isn’t a claim which is supported by the facts

[@WaterCat5]

@@catholicguy1073 I specified for Jesus or any supernatural claim. Of course, there is truth in the Bible, but it's just not where it counts. There is no Jesus's tomb. Arimethea has never been located. The Shroud of Turin is fake. There is no Sodom or Gomorrah. No Tower of Babel. No flood. No Eden. Show me evidence for a single miraculous event, and then I'll take the supernatural claims seriously.

[@SS-en5uy]

John Mark, the Essene who ran away naked ... would he possibly be the young man carrying a jar of water (Mk 14:13) the two disciples of Jesus were to follow?

[@joshg8026]

I’ve not considered that. I do know it’s quite possible that John Mark is the rich young ruler in Mark 10:17-22. If so, though he went away sad that day, he could have later sold all he had and followed Jesus. Therefore, the single linen garment later in 14:51-52…

[@salonsarwar4557]

Yes. That's exactly what John Bergsma thinks after studying the Dea Sea scrolls! Which also works up to the Last Supper having happened on a Tuesday! Check out his work.

[@SS-en5uy]

​@@salonsarwar4557 Thanks! Yeah, I too think Jesus' last supper took place as per the Passover timing in the Essene calendar. Very difficult to prove, though, because there is no hard evidence that the 364-day calendar was kept in line with the agricultural cycle efficiently enough so relevant offerings could be observed (see 11QTemple especially ...).

[@SS-en5uy]

@@joshg8026 interesting indeed. There might be a chronology issue at play when it comes to Mark's Gospel, though. As far as I can tell, most specialists agree that according to the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus' ministry lasted at most a year (only one Passover mentioned, at the time of his passion and death). So the rich young man would have had less than a year effectively, between his encounter with Jesus and Jesus' last week) to decide to sell all his property and become a full-fledged Essene. According to the Essene document known as The Rule of the Community, it took three years for someone to become a full-fledged Essene. The handing over of property was part of the entry process and occurred in a staggered manner: after one year of formation a postulant sold his property and handed over the proceeds to the bursar, who kept these in the name of the postulant still - in effect it remained the postulant's. It was at the end of the second year of formation that the proceeds were transferred from the postulant's name to the community. After a third year of formation the postulant became a full member. There is possibly something like this behind the Ananias and Sapphire episode in Acts 5. I am not quite sure when in the entry process the postulant was given the one linen garment ... Coming back to Mark/John-Mark, if he was the rich young man of the Gospel, he could likely not have become a full member of the Essenes before a solid three years after that encounter, so presumably a couple of years after Jesus' death and resurrection. This is what makes me sceptical about the rich young man being John Mark. Thanks for responding :) Your post made me think.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

No. The young man was involved in a mystic ritual involving a medicated textile (not a linen piece of clothing) and the man carrying water is an astrological allegory about the age of Aquarius.

[@HauxYZ250]

Socrates famously did not write anything down. Did he mean Aristotle?

[@war13death]

If I remember correctly Socrates never did write anything down, his students (mostly Plato) wrote his lectures and conversations down.

[@thomasjorge4734]

That's why when Michael Jackson famously said, during an interview, that he had read everything Socates ever wrote; he was telling the truth, since Socrates wrote nothing.

[@conovan5081]

Probably meant Aristotle

[@williamreymond2669]

I remember when I was a young Airborne Ranger, back in the early 1980s, and I finally *gave up* on the pretentious, pretend successors to Tolkien, C.S Lewis, Ursula Le Guin, Lord Dunsany, H.P. Lovecraft and all of the others in that fantasy genre - and started to read history: The Gallic Wars, Tacitus, Livy, Plutarch, Pliny the Elder and the Younger, anything available in the Penguin Classics editions that I could obtain at the University of Washington Bookstore... and those venerable literary elders were to some degree *less* reliable than the good-old-bible?

[@FMmffmFM]

Did he really say that we don't have old documents of the works of Socrates?

[@c2s2942]

No, he said very late manuscripts, not originals.

[@the2494silvester]

It would be interesting to have a video on Jehovah's Witnesses.

[@Gutslinger]

😬 Indeed.. And ask them why they alter the words in their Bible to fit their religion of works.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

@@Gutslingerpot calling the kettle black

[@zacht.9585]

JW don't believe Jesus is God, when all of the Bible points to that being the case.

[@wishIwuzskiing]

Regarding Matt's comment about the questioning of the Gospels being because of the miracles being claimed as opposed to the other documents just referencing a war or other event. In my opinion, while that is part of it, I don't think that's at the heart of it. The much deeper reason is that IF this Jesus is the Son of God, then that means how we live our lives matters. That means its isn't an evolutionary free-for-all and we can each live as we please. If Jesus is a real historical figure, who also proved His divinity in many ways, one being with miracles, if He is indeed exactly who he says He is, then we must choose and the choice isn't Yankees or Mets, vanilla or chocolate, jazz or classical. The decision is eternal life or eternal damnation. And THAT in my mind is a far more compelling reason for non believers to throw as much doubt as possible at the Gospels and erect bars so high that the only resolution is Christ Himself returning removing all doubt. Which in the end, they WILL get to see, which will be a tad too late to say "Ohhhh, NOW I get it!".

[@williamsmith8790]

It’s not the “supernatural elements” as he says. It’s the fact that if the Bible is true then it has authority over your actions. No “do as thou wilt” and “if it feels good do it” type person wants to accept that authority.

[@Mr.Whitenton]

This guy and Voddie Bachman must have studied at the same place. Great source

[@marksteelman7747]

I think the reason people resist the authenticity of the Bible is because it means they aren’t the center of their own life. What they want isn’t the most important thing and they don’t want to accept that.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

No, It’s because it contradicts itself and reality. You can’t pick out the 1/20 times it was right and claim that makes the whole thing authentic

[@zacht.9585]

@yoeyyoey8937 do you believe you are being honest in saying only 1/20 of the Bible (or Gospels, or NT...not sure which you're referring to) is "right"? What makes you believe that?

[@yoeyyoey8937]

@@zacht.9585 I guess it depends on what constitutes “true claims”, but I would say roughly 5-10% is actually accurate and has basis in reality. Like maybe they use the name of a real tribe of people, but at the wrong time and place

[@editorsphilosophynow3646]

BTW the works of Plato ARE the works of Socrates. Socrates himself never wrote a book, and distrusted philosophy writing because you can't interrogate it.

[@faceless_wither6406]

Thumbnail’s a little too tempting

[@yoeyyoey8937]

What do you mean by that? Tempting how?

[@nexteffects]

I don't think it's just the supernatural elements being the reason why they push on the Bible so much and it's authenticity. The person of Jesus is a polarizing figure to be sure. Is he pure human Is he divine Is he both? What happens if these texts are literally true with what they say happened. There are people today living who believe what happened in the gospels is true. I am one of them. I don't know what of anyone today that bases their entire life on the works of tacitus or Plato or Socrates or Julius Caesar. Jesus and Christianity affect everything after them, Even still today.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

He isn’t polarizing, people push back because Christians are saying unhelpful things that don’t make sense and claiming its veracity on the authority of the Bible.

[@onedirection2301]

​@@yoeyyoey8937 He was foretold to be polarizing. "Look! My servant will act wisely. He will be raised and be lifted up, and be highly exalted. Just as many were appalled at you, so disfigured was his appearance from any man, and his form from the sons of men, so he will sprinkle many nations." (Isaiah 52:13) There are people who would exalt him, and others who would be appalled at him.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

@@onedirection2301 yes but doesn’t that reflect any significant historical figure ever? I guess I was assuming you meant polarizing like after the fact, because I can’t see anyone who is in disagreement with Jesus’ teachings (not Christian interpretations after the fact, but his actual core message)

[@DavidOrtiz-fd2lb]

“John mark” ? Is that St Marks full name lol

[@michaelhaywood8262]

Yes, he was an accomplice of St Paul. He is mentioned in the Acts and in some of Paul's Epistles. John or Yonah was his Hebrew name and Mark or Marcus was his Roman name. His feast day is on April 25.

[@BKNeifert]

But Plutarch and Herodotus have Supernatural elements. That's not it.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

Exactly

[@williamreymond2669]

No, that's not it Matt. [6:15 Bergsma] "Why is there such a high bar that people want to place on the Bible..?" [6:30 Fradd] "May I suggest what it is? ...it's talking about people coming back from the dead..." No, no, no, what it is, is that if the Bible is true you *must* radically alter your life and livelihood to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. People don't want to radically alter their lives - it's about that simple. Look, I'm staring the same realization in my own face. What am I willing to give up to live a life of holiness if I accept holiness as my calling and vocation as a Catholic - or any type of Christian for that matter? Well, I have to give up *a lot of nice things* that I have worked very hard for. In exchange I *might* gain entrance to the so-called Kingdom of Heaven? Are you willing to take that risk with all of your nice stuff??? If you are a Catholic Christian you have to say, *yes!* *That is hard.*

[@Ikthus]

Agree.

[@tinadavy3990]

Why does your video cover include a naked woman...quite the 'draw' .... I'm no prude, was in the arts, but perhaps change the painting being a RELIGIOUS podcast.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

The painting looks like the scene they are describing, please stop perverting the human form and art. If you are so pious you won’t look at nudity this way

[@SmithsnMoz]

And yet there's still people who claim that JESUS CHRIST never existed...😮

[@yoeyyoey8937]

Ok but you have to admit there’s a huge discrepancy between understanding that a mystic named Jesus lives, and that a guy named Jesus was literally the only son of god who was resurrected after death.

[@donaldmonzon1774]

The young man may have been the 'rich young ruler'...after having sold everything and then followed Jesus.... Jesus knew the hearts of men....but scripture declared Jesus loved him....when the young man went away sorrowful the apostles asked who can be saved.... Jesus said....... with God all things are possible....we can't know for sure of course, but I think it was probable the rich young ruler that was sad initially about selling everything but decided to do as Jesus said in the end...he sold everything, but was clothed in linen in the end...what do you think 🤔...my best guess trying to piece several scriptures together ????

[@Fassnight]

Just wouldnt make sense. Simplest solution is often the best. The arrest of Jesus was hectic and people were scared. Was late at night and someone's cloak got grabbed, so they fled naked

[@donaldmonzon1774]

@@Fassnight not a cloak...a linen towel....I think 🤔....a young man , last one to flee....thanks for replying

[@yoeyyoey8937]

Maybe but the original language states that this boy was not using the linen as clothing

[@donaldmonzon1774]

@@yoeyyoey8937 go and sell all that you have and you shall have riches in heaven...he had kept the law since his youth...he only lacked one thing... with God all things are possible... Jesus LOVED him, Lazarus, and the apostle John ,these three uniquely pointed out on scripture... Just a consideration, not a proof

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

​@@donaldmonzon1774 I like your consideration about the rich, young man. I also accept the young man who fled may have been John Mark. Maybe the rich young man was indeed John Mark ? All very interesting observations. Peace to you...

[@victcol7]

Dr Bergsma didn't answer Matt question . Because of these supernatural events , walking on water.. make it less credible to believe and hence the weight of research and enquiry? the whole Gospels hinges on Resurrection of Our Lord, if there was no resurrection, Gospels wouldn't have been written in the first place and the disciples would have reverted back to their former Jewish faith. It would have been impossible for them to propagate Our Lord ' yeah,he performed great miracles but in the end he had to suffer a gruesome capital punishment from the Roman State because of the religious leaders End of the story and No one would have known about CHrist or Christianity.ANd it follows because Of Resurrections all these minor events walking on water, multiplication of the Loaves, fish, seem likely and credible

[@yoeyyoey8937]

Yea so good luck trying to prove the resurrection

[@victcol7]

@@yoeyyoey8937 yea, it not given for everyone to believe, good luck to you,

[@yoeyyoey8937]

@@victcol7 think about what you’re saying; if the gospels were not written in the first place, we would not know about the resurrection. Yet there’s no other indication of this. Don’t claim these things really happened and then tell me about having to blindly believe it. And Jesus came to save all of us, and I don’t think he would hinge that on things that don’t make sense or require faith, because God is smart enough to know this doesn’t work for a lot of people.

[@zacharypotvin6579]

Please please, go over Marijuana and the Bible? I'm very confused where it stands in morality to our God.

[@andrewpatton5114]

We are commanded to be sober, and we are commanded to obey civil laws to the extent that they neither command evil nor forbid what God commands us to do.

[@zacharypotvin6579]

@@andrewpatton5114 marijuana is legal in my state. Try again

[@caesarborgia4012]

Anyway about bread and little fishes, dont take this content first degree, for those who have ears to listen....

[@FreeShrugs319]

The Bible might be reliable but we should drop the “proof” of 6,000 manuscripts…close to time of Christ. The vast majority of those manuscripts were written closer to our time than than to the time of Christ. It’s a tired old apologetic that only damages our case when someone looks into it a little bit. Then they will feel lied to. If our faith is based on apologetics, and then our apologetics turn out to be BS, then there goes our faith.

[@c2s2942]

That’s quite a leap, and an inaccurate one at that. We have roughly 25,000 manuscripts, some dating to within a century or less of Christ, which is astronomically rare in antiquity. We have the Dead Sea scrolls, which predate Christ by I believe about 1500 years in some manuscripts, but I’ll admit I could be off on the timeline. Nevertheless, they are older. All those manuscripts do not change the message of the gospel at all. We have nothing that is more historically attested to than the story of Jesus.

[@SuperKripke]

Maybe the reason we're a little more understanding with the works of Julius Caesar and Tacitus is because they don't make supernatural claims and therefore are more plausible as historical texts. The Gospels on the other hand (including the yet unfound Q source) make multiple references to miracles, demons and supernatural acts of God.

[@DaveyKanabus]

You need to be really careful about cross-contaminating your modes of skepticism. People have made claim of things they cannot explain since time immemorial and still do today. That someone's account of events contains supernatural claims does not cast doubt on the fact that they indeed authored it, nor does it invalidate the corroborating evidence their account might share with contemporary authors. You have, in the gospels, a singular and extreme example of identical supernatural events being attested corroboratively to by multiple contemporary authors whose historical accuracy is among the least questionable of any documents we have for the time period, and who stood to gain nothing and lose everything by making these claims (11 of the 12 original apostles suffered gruesome martyrdoms for refusing to backpedal their claims; there was no material incentive to make the claims if they were lies, and every incentive to withdraw them. ergo: they must have truly believed them). If extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, you've got it.

[@DaveyKanabus]

He explains an adjacent point to this, to exactly this proposed objection at 6:30.

[@universalflamethrower6342]

dude, there is no Q that is just a hypothesis. The gospels is historical figures interacting with the divine/spirit world. As a thought experiment you should take that as part of the natural world. Try to read the bible that way and look in that way to history.

[@davidr2299]

A whopping total of ZERO third party sources that corroborate the existence of Jesus were first hand accounts. Neither Tacitus nor Pliny the elder nor Josephus could be considered “witnesses” by any stretch of the imagination. They merely made references to Jesus as a figure a group of Jews worshiped. Second, neither of these sources speak of the resurrection or the virgin birth (central tenants of Christianity). In other words, the only source that presents evidence of fantastical claims of divinity is the only source that makes claims of it. This would be widely egregious as a standard for objectivity in any other realm of study.

[@SuperKripke]

​@@DaveyKanabus You make three claims: 1) The claim of supernatural claims should not diminish the authorship question. 2) That the authors risked martyrdom to tell their story. 3) That the speaker in the video has sufficiently answered the supernatural objection. The first claim is that the Gospel writers knew or lived in the time of Jesus. It is accepted among scholars that Mark is likely to have been written first and John last. The fragments we have are copies, translations and edits. There is no evidence that those earliest fragments we have are in any way written by people named Mark, Matthew, Luke or John. What you are using is the amazing fact that these Gospels had amazing influence and spread widely to attest to the truth of its supernatural claims. But this fact is miraculous in the same way that our ancestors we not wiped out by the meteors. While we can marvel at the multiple texts and codexes we have from the first centuries onwards, there is no extraordinary evidence that can show us what we know today ie no virgin births, coming back from the dead, miracles, demons etc. Secondly, the claims of martyrdom come from those who have an interest in spreading the gospel. It is insufficient to accept their own claims that they suffered as an argument for the veracity of the supernatural claims. Finally, the speaker puts a lot of emphasis on the fragment from John which is not universally accepted as having been written in125 AD. I recommend you reading more widely to include scholars who are non-Christians who do not have an incentive to begin from the assumption that Christ was the Son of God. Dr Bart Ehrmann is a good start.

[@CheddarBayBaby]

Unconvincing

[@mrbaker7443]

Really? Explain.

[@sgtbaker81]

Did you learn anything new from the conversation?

[@yoeyyoey8937]

@@mrbaker7443the original language in scripture doesn’t support this claim because the linen is not described as clothing

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Didn't you hear that your god is invisible and unknowable making it impossible to prove that "He" exists. A simple appearance would change that, and "He" knows it.

[@CRUCIFi777]

Mary’s dead and can’t help anyone.

[@user-bj5px7gf4t]

This is nothing but half truths. This man is even trying to say that Turkey and Egypt are far away? Baby, they TOUCH.

[@user-bj5px7gf4t]

EASILY refutable. EASILY. The fact this is a "top scholar" is sad for y'all. Half truths, fallacies, LIES, and inaccuracies. Sad.

[@Jruuuuuuu]

@joerogan

[@etzelkaplan9677]

the esteemed biblical scholars bart erman. metzger. Owens after careful research concluded none of the gospels were written by any apostle. all in greek that no apostle spoke. John 3 16 and mark resurrection story were both added in much later ' I left church trinity b s for islam monotheism 2002. jesus ' worship our lord the one god only '

[@yoeyyoey8937]

True. Trinity is mental gymnastics for “we have three gods”

[@onedirection2301]

How do you know no apostle spoke Greek?

[@yoeyyoey8937]

@@onedirection2301 whatever serves your confirmation bias is what is currently real

[@etzelkaplan9677]

@@onedirection2301 I don't that info is from biblical scholar bart erman. bestseller Misquoting Jesus ...he left the church after his conclusions