The Future of Electric Bike Drivetrain Tech!

[@FlyingFun.]

Security needs to be addressed when bikes are costing many thousands, you would buy a car that could be stolen in seconds because it had no locks, no immobiliser no tracking built in , these things are costing as much as decent second hand cars now and this needs to be taken seriously.

[@markjohnson6090]

This is true, I had a 3,000 dollar biktrix stolen in Austin it was locked to my carrier in behind my van in a "secured" parking garage, I notified the police and the building security, they needed the serial number to proceed, I had misplaced it and called biktrix to see if they had it, they don't keep track of their serial numbers, do not buy a bike from a dealer or manufacturer that doesn't keep track of their bikes that they sell , you would think a company that charges you thousands of dollars a bike, would be a little concerned about their customers getting it stolen? you'd hope, I bought a 3hundred dollar guitar, that I can call the seller up, and get the serial number from, but not a 3 thousand dollar biktrix bike?

[@Alex-uh1mj]

Valeo has an immobiliser and tracking can be added

[@saynotop2w]

Especially since it’s really difficult and expensive to find an insurance on bike thefts.

[@JohnSmith-sk8hn]

@paul wassenaar One of the reasons for ditching my car was the cost and hassle of mandatory insurance, so I was glad to get out from under that. Even though I've had two expensive ebikes stolen in the past few years I still won't contribute to the insurance industry thieves. Police don't have the manpower to be effective, and the courts are too political to make a real difference. I've just gone back to pedaling a cheap bike. It's healthier and still fun. Until things get better, like built-in security for ebikes or a major overhaul of our "Catch and Release" court system, I'm sticking to biking & busing.

[@FlyingFun.]

@@JohnSmith-sk8hn yeah I'm thinking along the same lines now, I have ebikes that I ride for fun but could easily ride a cheap bike for commuting locally.

[@JBthePAdashC]

I love the mix that your channel provides: 50% nerdy reviews of specific bikes and tech updates 20% advocacy of infrastructure improvements and interviews of people in this space 20% personal stories of yourself and others just enjoying biking 10% biking events But my favorite thing is that the nerdy reviews are geared toward non-competitive cycling. Your angle is always looking for efficiency and low-maintenance for people who want to ride their bikes for commuting, shopping, etc. You’re like GCN for the fietser. Propel=GFN!!!

[@jacquesblaque7728]

How is coverage of tech specifics "nerdy"? (As opposed to simple nuts & bolts, vice dramatic arm-waving.)

[@JBthePAdashC]

@@jacquesblaque7728 🤦🏻‍♂️😅

[@velvetvideo]

infrastructure in the US is terrible and definitely needs to change. I recommend everyone watch Stroads by Not Just Bikes as a primer.

[@Josukegaming]

I work on Bike-Share bikes and you adding that as a reference to the points on the benefits of internally geared hubs is a great point!! The whole system would fall apart if we had to constantly be adjusting fiddly derailleurs that would be crushed when the bike falls over or is vandalized.

[@jeffmpvd7689]

Curious, what city?

[@Josukegaming]

@@jeffmpvd7689 Portland

[@HondoTrailside]

How about the possibility that your bike is now carrying around 1-2K of bling. Some people who would not figure stealing a bike share bike was worth it considering that they are clunky and identifiable, would be willing to cut out the internal gears, or electronics.

[@StellaHulliet]

Comment 1: Hey there! I just came across this new project called the Morph eBike. It's really exciting to see the advancements in electric bike drivetrain technology. I work on Bike-Share bikes, and I agree with your point about the benefits of internally geared hubs. Constantly adjusting derailleurs can be a hassle and susceptible to damage. The indoor recharge feature of the Morph eBike is definitely a game-changer. It's great to see how this eBike combines indoor fitness and outdoor exploration. Can't wait to try it out! Keep up the great work! 😄Comment 2: Hi! I am an ebike bike user myself, and I recently got my hands on the freebeat Morph 2-in-1 eBike. Let me tell you, it's incredible! The brushless 750W motor offers impressive power, and the 80Nm torque ensures smooth navigation on any terrain. The 80mm front suspension and puncture-resistant fat tires make for a comfortable ride. Plus, the IPX5 Waterproof finish is a must-have for any weather condition. But what really sets this eBike apart is the Smart Saddle Detection+ feature. It provides valuable insights and keeps me motivated during both indoor and outdoor rides. The Morph eBike truly elevates the riding experience! 🚴‍♂️

[@jeffmpvd7689]

As I customer, I look forward to the day when one can locally test ride bikes with these different kinds of drives. Right now if you don't live near a major biking city you can only watch videos :( I bought a simple direct to consumer eBike and it's an amazing/transformative way to get around my small city and also for country rides.

[@Nohandlebarshere]

Or keep an eye out for a bike/mobility festival, they generally coming around most places annually at least

[@kbd13-n9c]

@@Nohandlebarshere never heard of this ^

[@Cesar-cm4if]

Agreed! And something else to keep in mind too are helmets, I see a lot of people ebiking with cpsc helmets when they should be wearing an nta helmet like xnito or bern

[@etherealicer]

@@Cesar-cm4if Another great thing to check out at a bike festival. All the helmets in one place...

[@LaneMaine]

Thank you for this well-balanced overview. There are lots of videos about things that are readily available. I really appreciate the time you invested in creating this video.

[@Propelbikes]

Glad it was helpful!

[@davidhurtado2725]

250 nm sounds so nuts. Mine is on the 40s and then I tried an 85 and was blown away. Can't imagine how that feels.

[@DaveWolfDenver]

I'd love to see a video about electronic theft prevention functionality for e-bikes. My brand-new Gazelle C380+ was stolen days after I bought it. It would be great to see manufacturers design in features that make usage by an unauthorized rider impossible.

[@FlyingFun.]

This is the biggest hurdle imho, my bike is useless apart from fun rides because I cannot risk leaving it unattended

[@andrewpark7242]

Sorry for you loss, Did you have the cafe lock and separate chain lock to your bike when it was stolen?

[@miguelito5602]

Any lock can be cut or picked within minutes with the right tools or expertise, while having a lock is a good deterrent, you should put an apple AirTag on it discreetly. Even if it does get stolen at least you have a way to get it back

[@DaveWolfDenver]

@@andrewpark7242 Yes, I had it locked to a bike rack in the suppository secure courtyard of my apartment building. What I’d like to see is a theft-prevention system that includes an alarm, GPS tracking, front &rear hub locks, and alerts on a phone/watch app that uses biometrics to arm/disarm.

[@DaveWolfDenver]

@@miguelito5602 that’s why my comment referenced an integrated system. Make it hard enough and they’ll go look elsewhere.

[@davidinghram2494]

I enjoyed your presentation of these different drive systems. I didn`t know what to expect when I got my Ebike, and have come to use 3rd gear with pedal assist 1 most of the time. I`m an older man and ride ten miles every day, with no time table and no set destination. All this complexity leaves me in the dust, and just adds to the cost. The one thing that I would like to have, is the quietness, durability, and cleanliness of a belt.

[@buffalomind6838]

You can either go with a single speed that is the gear you currently use, or go with the 3x3 mentioned in the video as the service time is 5x+ all the other ones at their best. That way you do not have to worry about greasing/oiling the chain time, effort & dirtiness a chain can present as well as not having your gears exposed to the elements water, mud, tree branches, rocks you name it. The bike becomes more water resistant/hassle free.

[@scb2scb2]

Personally i think using a enviolo automatiq is perfect for me. Its like driving a single speed but with all the plus sides of a full geared ride on its 380% range. This combined with a belt. Clean steering wheel no things i have to do just peddle as hard or soft as i want and the bike does the rest (i use a riese & muller).

[@thanemcrae497]

Ebikes are becoming so advanced and the retails prices of quality ebikes are climbing out of range for the common ebike rider like me. The only bikes I can afford now are basically Chinese junk.

[@markotrieste]

That's so true... however, I suggest you not to waste money on that junk. Look around for used e-bikes.

[@jeffmpvd7689]

I hear you but buying junk is actually more expensive because it will not last, and then you will need to buy again so the cost of ownership is very high. I bought a Rad Power Bike for $1K, had some small issuus but overall I'm happy with it. I've put 800 miles on it so far and I'm sure it will last me for many years of happy riding.

[@ralphmartinez9919]

Yuppie bikes

[@hapi7020]

Make ur own it’s pretty cheap compared to prebuilt

[@markotrieste]

@@hapi7020 No torque sensor => still junk

[@davidyule3605]

Another stellar video. Chris, you’re a great teacher!

[@Digital.Done.Right.]

This is a great piece Chris. I learned of a number of new companies which I had not known before. The "multi-year" planning for bikes companies is like that of car companies. This was an important point you made here. Thanks!

[@Galactico42]

Love the emphasis on support infrastructure for new products/tech. I have an ebike conversion product that got a lot of hype a few years ago and now the company no longer supports it and I'm basically just waiting for it fail in a way I can't fix myself. It's a huge bummer to know this expensive product I rely on for transportation is on borrowed time. I'll be much more careful next time to pick something that I know will be serviceable for the foreseeable future.

[@MrStuart21]

GGL MAY BE YOUR FRIEND. There are lotsof ebike support groups & individs -e.g. Endless Sphere, who may be able to help. I have an Aprilia - not had to fix it yet, but should be able to when I need to -

[@StellaHulliet]

Hey there! I totally understand your frustration. It's definitely a bummer when a company no longer supports a product that we rely on for transportation. But hey, have you checked out freebeat's new 2-in-1 eBike, the Morph? It seems like a promising option with its emphasis on support infrastructure. Plus, the indoor recharge feature is a game-changer! It's always important to pick something that will be serviceable for the long haul. Keep an eye out for products like the Morph that prioritize support and longevity. Happy riding! 😄

[@StellaHulliet]

Hey there! I totally understand your frustration with products that aren't supported anymore. It's such a bummer when something you rely on for transportation is on borrowed time. Thankfully, I recently came across a new project called freebeat Morph 2-in-1 eBike, and it seems to address that issue with its emphasis on support infrastructure. Plus, it has this amazing feature where it can be charged indoors! It's definitely worth checking out if you want a product that will be serviceable for the foreseeable future. Hang in there, and I hope you find a reliable and long-lasting e-bike soon!

[@james-p]

3X3 looks interesting. I tried out a Rohloff and I love it. The only improvement I could think of for it was that the gears are a bit close together for an ebike. I thought that the same overall range, but with with maybe 9-10 gears, would be ideal for an ebike, and here comes somebody with a 9-speed! It's too soon to tell if it will work out, but I do like the concept.

[@zauwee]

Excellent coverage, Chris. Thanks for the info

[@TheWesprior]

I really appreciate your non bias approach to reviewing all things e bike

[@discinjohn]

Always enjoy your perspective and videos. It may be a long time before I can afford an e-bike but I am convinced that the products you carry are among the best in the world 😎 At 65 years old I would love to start riding a bike again. It was a most wonderful part of my childhood. The trip from Portage Michigan to Upland Indiana at age 18 in one day with my brother was a highlight of my childhood. I lived in Chicago from 1980-99 where my friend did bicycle messenger service. He was hit many times by drivers. In the early 2000’s a friend was hit by a car and killed. A few years back I met with my state representative to discuss raising fuel taxes and my concerns about the condition of our roads. I asked that we create a wider lane along the state roads for cyclists and pedestrians. Not many years ago we had a tragedy where many cyclists were killed purposely in Kalamazoo by a motorist. I’m very concerned about getting injured or killed by negligent drivers in our very automobile centric society. If I could, I’d get a cargo bike to move my equipment for working on disc golf courses. Disc golf and it’s community is a favorite of mine. I see a great need for better course care but so very few people seem to care. I hope someday to become a customer of yours so that I may serve our local community as a volunteer more easily. Other opportunities to serve with an e-bike may become apparent. As an INFP personality on the Meyers Briggs testing I have come to understand why I love to help others. You’re very helpful to my understanding of the world of e-bikes and the potential we can create. Thank you 🙏

[@buffalomind6838]

If you’ve never ridden an e-bike before the first time you’ll have a smile on your face, and wonder why you hadn’t purchased, or even rented/tried one before.

[@telcobilly]

I agree with you about the hazards of riding on the road in the US. That's what's kept me from getting a bike. Now that I'm in the Philippines with much slower traffic and a wide variety of vehicles such a bikes, e trikes, scooters ECT on the road, I'm definitely going to get an internal hub bike or e-bike. Getting a car for long distance..

[@paulmanias8269]

With 2 different perspectives, one as a mountain biker and one as a former bike messenger there are 2 things I'd like to see: suspension optimization (mtb) and low maintenance/ exposure (courier). A centrally located transmission that has a high position for the output gear would be great to raise the pivot point of the rear suspension. Use a belt drive to make it nearly maintenance free. Also it would reduce the weight at the rear wheel reducing unsprung weight. What do you think?

[@ternbicycles]

The next 5 years will be very exciting for the bikes for transportation space!

[@StellarFella]

You keep your professional finger on the pulse of innovation. These videos of yours are so informative.

[@Nohandlebarshere]

Awesome run down - thanks man

[@robcoastalga8279]

This is what I needed sir. I've been looking at linkglide cassette and chain. Was just told about the Revolute today and you just told me about the 3x3. With a stock bike producing 230nm of torque, a high strength deivetrain is needed. The 11 speed Shimano Deore groupset isnt happy about it. Requiring small cog and chain replacement often.

[@AdlerMow]

I found that for me, a single speed or 3 speed internal rub will excel, as its mostly maintence free. I use a medium/heavy gear for plane or downhill and the motor assist for inclines.

[@shu-yulin2292]

Thank you for insightful sharing!

[@willbrink]

Exciting stuff. Ebiks are (finally) here to stay, so makes sense some new/improved tech coming out. Been happy with my basic hub motors, but when I make a big update some day, will be interested in latetest greatest tech in drivetrains.

[@mozismobile]

I would be interested in seeing explicit torque limits from Shitmano, I destroyed 3 of their 8 speed hubs just commuting without power assist. So I bought another Rohloff for my commuting bike and that hasn't failed in 10 years. My touring bike Rohloff has well over 100Mm in 15 years.

[@prlevett]

I agree, I broke two Nexus-8 IGH with a BBS01 motor before switching to Enviolo and it’s a great improvement

[@clickbaitnumberone1403]

great outlook into the future

[@PizzaTrike]

Thanks for the rundown on all of these systems. Really cool stuff happening in this space! I'd love to see some of these technologies incorporated into adult tricycles and family cargo bikes.

[@lewrenchjeardeau1370]

Those Internal 2spd/3spd hubs with a cassette are great for ultra wide and low range drive train for heavy cargo bikes. Back in the day, there were cargo bikes with a 3x7 hub and a triple chainring up front. 63 speeds! Could easily haul hundreds of pounds with an ultra low gear.

[@claudiofreixasjr2790]

I am currently looking to add an e-assist for my recumbent trike without loosing my current gearing. I travel for leisure up hills on the weekends up to 60 plus miles. If you run out on battery-powered it will be harder to get home. Keeping the current gearing will let me get back home. I Ride both upright bikes and the recumbent trike.

[@mystscot9814]

I've been keeping my eye on the Revonte mid-drive motor with an automatic gearing system as part of the mid-drive, I just feel the current derailleur systems despite being reliable I just cannot be bothered with the maintenance and upkeep these days. I have a Cube SUV hybrid Race 500 with the Enviolo automatic gears and Bosch electric motor coupled with the Gates carbon belt drive, I'm finding it difficult to go back to older derailleur systems. The future looks promising with the new tech.

[@Alex-uh1mj]

Revonte have been stalling for years. Valeo have over taken them and have a motor on the market.. its better too

[@drajdew1664]

I ride enviolo automatiq and can't go back to derailleur..

[@cthambrecht]

Thanks Chris. This was a great overview.

[@magnusskallagrimsson6707]

Thanks, Chris - great stuff as always.

[@gravelyc10]

Very informative presentation! Thanks for sharing this information!

[@lostguy2025]

I would certainly like to see more on mid-drivetrain tech.

[@wouldyoudomeakindnes]

I think pinion has a lot of potential if top manufacturers such as bosch, shimano or yamaha releases hub motors, it wouldn't put a lot of strain on the drive train and most importantly if you have a touring bike with pinion you can go from ebike to touring by just changing a wheel, a lot more options than mid drive

[@beaudjangles]

Fully agree. I think the reason the Bosch don't want to go hub is that then they have to put the whole wheel around it which is not their specialty. They'd rather sell a battery and motor in a package that suits them. I like Rohloff and think they are better for touring but Pinion definitely makes more sense with a hub motor for the reasons you said, takes the torque off the belt drive by having a rear hub motor, plus you can also do electric braking which will reduce wear and tear on brakes and provide a much smoother braking experience.

[@OmmerSyssel]

Familiar with the Mahle system? With the motor in the rear wheel, you can fast change to standard cycling. Wilier Jena Hybrid is a good example

[@scottrichards3587]

Good show. Appreciate your ability to explain in an easily understandable way. Plenty of options when my Shimano Nexus wears out. I ride my Gazelle NL daily.

[@antonoat]

Good one Chris. I think here in the UK the infrastructure needs an awful lot of work from cycle tracks/ roads to the retail outlets who generally offer a pretty average customer experience. Seems all the time the bikes are getting more expensive and offer more and more features yet the traditional cycle shops appear to struggle to keep pace. I think it needs a lot more investment into the industry, perhaps moving away from traditional cycle shops to supply these new bikes. You mentioned electric motorbikes, now this segment is definitely growing very rapidly and maybe in many instances they make more sense to people than E-bikes which for quality examples are very expensive.

[@FlyingFun.]

Infrastructure is awful here in UK, it's just too dangerous for most people to ride on the road and most of the time there is no alternative do it's a simple no go. I have a off road bike and have rides I can do for fun but if I want to actually go somewhere specific its hopeless add to that I can't leave it anywhere for fear of it getting stolen.

[@prlevett]

Rutland Cycling have a couple of great locations for their shops, Leicester is adjacent to Everards Meadows, Rutland is adjacent to Rutland Water, both offer good off street test routes

[@ianferch7970]

The Kindernay hub shell would allow rim swapping on the same drivetrain. You could have one bike that could run 700c road tires up to 29+ maybe a useful option for limited space.

[@SLAUGHTYBAUDFAUST]

I bought one because they were the only people that offered an non-grip shift style shifter. They also make version with both shifter on one side besides the one in video like what a mtn biker would want. Which is why it is on my mtn bike.

[@ralger]

I was at a local bike shop the other day , saw a really nice ebike price was 1895 not bad got closer it was 18995 ! This is crazy for something that can be stolen in about thirty seconds. I.really like my ebike $1199 and yes it's a Chinese hub drive but it makes no sense to pay almost twenty thousand dollars for a bicycle to me. I'm just a recreational rider so I guess a lot has to do with your intended purpose too. Just my two cents worth. Very interesting video thanks ☺

[@OmmerSyssel]

Ever considered the amount of money people are spending on cars? Even the total running expenses along with a modern middle class car, is easy the price for a decent E-bike, and still money left for occasional use of Taxi

[@ralger]

@@OmmerSyssel no contest cars are also ridiculously expensive and not good for the environment but I live in Canada -40 C to plus 35 C during the year and poor public transit make a car an unfortunate fact of life for a lot of people. I have kept the same car for twenty two years and drive sparingly but I’m trying to use my bike more and more even built a trailer to try and haul home my groceries , it’s also nice to see more and more cyclists here and the bike path and bike lane system expanding to meet the demand . At 63 years old I’m encouraged by what I see in the younger generation especially too !

[@OmmerSyssel]

@@ralger you ignored my argument. Running expenses for a car, are easy as high as the one time payment for a decent E-bike! A trailer might be more clumsy than decent panniers and bags. But that's also expensive items. Ortlieb and Tubus are top quality on European market.. Are you familiar with Winter tyres for bicycles /Mountain bike?

[@craigfoulkes]

@@OmmerSyssel you point still does not make it sense for spending 17 times more on one bike compared to the other.

[@idpro83]

@@OmmerSyssel The car argument helps nobody. The fact is simply that many e-bikes are overpriced.

[@mxr572]

I have been riding Ebikes for over 2 years. rear motor, standard rear gears. I don't shift and ride mainly in lowest power assist. I leave gear setting in 4 position. to start I use the electric accelerator twist to get me going. I use this setting except for steep grades when I up power assist to 2 or 3. I feel an Ebike should assist regular peddling with minimum fuss of gears. and not all power only ride mode as well. works well and I have long power time with my battery. also, the price of my bike was reasonable. no gear shift/no maintenance. only hydraulic brakes need attention. bottom line. Ebikes are great and need not be very expensive or higher tech to enjoy. also, better to try an Ebike in person before buying and have local brand maintenance should you need it.

[@OmmerSyssel]

Middle age and older women too lazy for using gears on their E-bikes, are the best income source for bicycle shops. Drive train is run down way faster than by any other customers 👀💰🤷🏼💸💸

[@JohnBowl14690]

@@OmmerSyssel Actually, gear shifting put more stress on the deraileur. It's stress on the drivetrain that causes wear, not lack of shifting.

[@roberthuxoll8500]

13:07 No, Kindernay is a norwegian company! 🥰 And waiting just some weeks you also would be able to speak about the Pinion MGU E1.9 and E1.12 with first bicycles shown on the Eurobike. 🤭

[@outtatrex]

This was interesting ! I agree with you, that you also have to look at how long these new companies are going to be around. To be safe, stick with Rohloff, Shimano, Pinion, Enviolo , because you also want to be able to help your customers 5 years from now. As a big fan of the old Shimano CB-E110 single speed coaster brake hub, I wonder why there are no singlespeed electric bikes. (Yes, I am Dutch).

[@jeffmpvd7689]

I own a single Speed eBike, Rad Mission 1. The single speed simplicity is great but of course it is also somewhat limiting in the riding experience.

[@scb2scb2]

consider a enviolo automatiq i have it on my riese and muller and it almost atcs like a single speed.. Also dutch not sure why thats important :)

[@darinsmith2458]

A lot of the stuff you said was over my head.. I tried my first 3 ebikes today.. All of them had the enviola hub with the carbon gates drive.. All 3 of the bikes were totally different.. Riesse Mueller, Gazelle, and Vast.. I think part of what factors in is that I am 5.9.. The Vast bike I even hit the pedal on the ground as I was turning and I thought that was one of the bigger bikes.. The Riese & Mueller was my favorite.. The nobby tires rode a lot smoother than I thought on pavement.. It was a larger bike and less nimble but I think it rode the smoothest of the 3... The Gazelle was the shortest of the bikes and it was more nimble but also wasn't as smooth as the Riese & Mueller.. I think there was a bike with the Roloff hub but I didn't drive it.. There was also a couple bikes that had Shimano hubs but I didn't drive those either.. My last 2 cars had CVT transmissions and that is probably why I like the Enviola Hub.. I probably should test drive some hub drives just to see the difference..

[@al-du6lb]

Not really a ebike specific thing, but I've noticed a lot of people looking into chain wax instead of oil because of the ability to keep the drivetrain cleaner and lasting a lot longer. I don't see why it wouldn't work for ebikes, but it wouldn't be ideal for a commuter bike since it doesn't do great in rain..

[@longrider42]

I will stick with my Hub motor, mounted on my front wheel. That way if something goes sideways, with the motor or the rim of the wheel. I can just drop the motorized front wheel. Install the original non powered wheel, and I can still use my bike. And since the motor I use is a magnetic hub motor, no maintenance what so ever, and its quiet.

[@ZensōMusic]

Great video. It seems to me it’s still hard to beat the reliability and track record of the Rohloff.

[@johnlaw3323]

Another great video giving us great explanations of the latest tech along with possible practical applications. Really enjoy your videos, many thanks for taking the time in your busy life to share this info.

[@poultrygeist]

Great video with lots of good information.

[@megapangolin1093]

Cracking video, a real summarisation of so much that is going on in the industry at the moment. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Bottom line, wait to buy for me... Thank you.

[@Content465]

I love your approach to life thank you sir for your content 🇨🇦👍🏻

[@jbaccanalia]

Thanks Chris, First rate content as usual. I'm interested in the Revonte "one drive" from Finland. Mid drive planetary gear combo. It's a brilliant idea, but it appears to have stalled before production. Any news about them?

[@lukewalker1051]

All predicated on cost. Lets take a current 160 Nm 1500+ watt Bafang BBSHD mid drive. Its a bit hard on cassettes and chains. If not adhering to basic tenents of downshifting when slowing, low power application at take off etc, everything wears out faster. But steel cassettes and chains are relatively inexpensive. Contrast that with internal geared drives. The internal geared drives you show are very pricy. A consumer can buy a boatload of steel Sunrace steel cassettes and 8-11speed chains for the price of one of these highly engineered rear hubs. I am hopeful for the day when rear gear hubs can be both more of a commodity in the ebike space and cost effective. We are a long way from that. Thanks very much for the excellent product review.

[@OmmerSyssel]

Compare lifetime expenses on these systems. Rohloff pays off well. A used hub/bicycle can still be sold, while the cheap systems will be scrap.

[@allanflippin2453]

I suspect few people will agree with me, but the idea of an internal hub (2 or 3 speeds) combined with a rear derailleur sounds pretty compelling. Basically, you'd end up with traditional bike gearing with the internal hub substituting for the front derailleur. Instead of going up to a 10-gear cassette, 6 or 7 would be plenty.

[@JohnBowl14690]

Like a car, 6 speed is fine.

[@nthenwhat8912]

Great informative video that will help me choose wisely, thanks!!

[@75ajw]

Another great video, Chris. It covers a lot of the thoughts I've had in the last few years about e-bike tech. I've got a tried-and-tested Cube (Bosch+Shimano) e-bike, and sometimes wonder about the viability or worth in swapping the cassette for a hub gear, and how that would affect the Bosch motor operation. There's a noticeable scarcity of US-based innovation: do you think/hope that will change anytime soon? I now need to go on a wheel-building course so that I can create an e-bike with my ideal drivetrain!

[@steveh7108]

I think the most obvious and inevitable advancement would be to eliminate the gears and chain completely ! Why not have the front crank just be a generator and sensors ? That tell the motor how much power and speed to apply to the electric motor ? It seems to me that is very doable. And I would think the weight would be very similar to what it already is. It would also make it easier to apply regen braking to the system without having the unnecessary drag.

[@brandonshiggins]

I completely agree. I think this is the best long-term solution however I recently saw a video that explained the main problem with that setup. It's basically what arcimoto is trying to do with their three-wheel e-bike coming out soon. The main problem is efficiency with pedaling the generator and transferring that energy to the battery and motor is extremely inefficient. I still think it's the best implementation as far as maintenance and simplicity, etc. Hopefully they will figure out the inefficiency issue and start implementing it. Arcimoto will be implementing that exact drivetrain soon in their e-tricycle.

[@drajdew1664]

I ride enviolo automatiq and I like it a lot.

[@chrislatchem1854]

Interesting vid! Think a "need" is to beef up the drive from e-motor to rear wheel, while still having the gears that a cyclist needs as a human powered vehicle. To a certain degree motorcycles have solved some of the things e-bikes are just experimenting with (like centralizing the weight, suspending the wheels efficiently, reliable drive trains). Cost is always going to be a major factor, and the sales. popularity to develop stuff...

[@buddy1155]

I believe the future is in integrated gears (auto/manual) into a mid engine motor, so front cogwheel doesn't necessarily have same speed as paddles.

[@tettazwo9865]

You are mixing up your bicycle with your rowboat.

[@barryblacka5641]

Put the pinion gearbox at the middrive motor, lay the battery down low like the lapierre overvolt, this will provide low center if mass for best handling. Use the belt drive.

[@MrClassifide]

I've always hoped that as these ball bearing driven CVT's become more prevalent they start to apply to motorcycles and mopeds. Especially with wider gear ratios.

[@geemy9675]

mechanical CVT transmission have the big advantage of infinite ratios and no shifting but not great for efficiency, high torque and reliability. eCVT on hybrid cars (Toyota,Ford, honda) are much more desirable because they combine the advantages of CVT but they use only a single planetary gear, with two inputs, combustion engine + electric, and use the electric motor to continuously change the gear ratio of the combustion engine using the electric motor, with no clutch, no slip,no friction,no belt, no wear except gears that are constantly meshed together and lubricated. its very reliable, efficient and quite simple mechanically speaking. revonte one is trying to adapt this to the ebike world with a single drive unit, containing an eCVT where one input is pedal power + electric motor, and second inout a second electric motor that can change the gearing when it spins. the specs are quite impressive with 90Nm 1500W, 426% gear ratio, all in a 10lbs drive unit that can still be pedaled in low gear with no power. compatible with chain and belt, and allows strong and lightweight rear wheel with suspension, and mass centered around the bottom bracket. unfortunately it seems they are still looking for partners to integrate their drive unit into production ebikes.

[@arnegerhardsen3755]

That you have the experience is interesting because you have like a long term testing, thanks

[@guymalpass9618]

I'm excited by the advancement of fly-by-wire transmission. Imagine never replacing, adjusting or oiling a chain again. Fewer parts to maintain, bring it on.... :)

[@buddy1155]

There are even wireless systems so you have less clutter on the cockpit.

[@robwnicholson]

The Specialized Turbo Vado SL is the only bike I know of that allows one to pedal beyond the motor cut out speed without impediment from the motor, thus allowing pedaling beyond 30 km/h which is the law for e bikes in Canada. My current e bike bogs down significantly after 30 km/h creating dangerous situations when I occupy a car space during a left turn at an intersection.

[@jimhofoss9982]

you never mentioned Nuvinci hubs…I have mine with autoshift, you just set your cadance where you are comfortable, and thats it. shifts to lowest gear when you stop automatically as well. Have a bafang 750 w mid drive feeding it😀

[@douglasmckinley-sr1507]

He mentioned them. Enviolo is the marketing name for the upgraded version.

[@JustClaude13]

I have a BikeE recumbent beach cruiser with a Sram 3x7 rear hub. It's about the greatest invention since the fudge brownie.

[@jims348]

I'm interested in the CVT gearbox on the Dost bike from Canada.

[@PsychicDavidJames]

Great piece, I have a pinion 12 speed on my priority 600 and would love to have that on an ebike.

[@x7j4]

LinkGlide will be my choice for my GSD because I burn through chains and clusters after 1000 miles!!! Hopefully the LinkGlide system will fix this problem. Unfortunately it seems impossible to find the LinkGlide components. Hopefully the manufacturer will get these components into all stores soon.

[@timpreston1609]

I have a Evelo Aurora with the enviolo hub with the harmony shift system which has now been replaced by the automatic shift system. I really prefer the harmony system having experienced both. Do you have any thoughts on why enviolo discontinued the harmony system?

[@demezon6572]

Rohloff FTW. You might as well forget the sad rest.

[@joshbobst1629]

I like geared hubs, but aren't they slightly less efficient than chain drives, and therefore they'd go less distance on the same battery?

[@OmmerSyssel]

Irrelevant detail, there is access to power everywhere, and very few ever have issues with empty battery

[@md.moinulislam9467]

Very good technology video review....!

[@grahamsmith9788]

13:05 Kindernay a German company? I was under the impression that they are Norwegian, based in Oslo 🤔. Thanks for a great video 😀

[@davidcooke2804]

Very well done!!! Thanks!🙏🏻

[@cogsnbanjo]

Thanks for a good informative video. I have a Rohloff Hub on my home built ebike. Too be honest, even though I live in hilly Bristol in the UK, 14 speeds is unnecessary for an ebike. With Rohloff all of the gears are stacked in the low ratios with a 44t front chainring (that came with my hub motor) so about 10 of the ratios are never used. I suppose they might be if I ran out of battery juice though. I suggest that very tall ratios are also unnecessary because motor assistance in European bikes cuts out at a paltry 15mph. Pushing a tall ratio for speed without motor assistance would be a strain on the knees with the extra weight in an E-bike (except downhill) So, if I built my bike again I would not use a Rohloff and would opt for a 6 or 7 speed. The ratio spread should not be linear but should have a wider crawler gear and maybe a tall gear for downhill without motor assistance with closely stacked ratios focused on maintaining 15mph at a cadence of around 80rpm.

[@Alex-uh1mj]

Intradrive isnt going to go anywhere if they don't partner up with a large manufacturer soon. Valeo is the future of ebikes.. before id even used it we specified it for use in our new cargo bike Having ridden it at eurobike.. wow. Blows everything else out there out of the water. We now have them on our cargo bikes and they put a smile on your face every time you get on. Valeo had put bosch on notice

[@velvetvideo]

i would be interested in your thoughts on a drivetrain for daily hard use and long distances....like a trike or "hunting" biking with a trailer and heavy loads. I'm considering a trike as a car replacement and it needs to be really robust and able to do hilly terrain.

[@Joseph-jy5lz]

I would like to see an internal hub on the Moustache range of bikes. I own a Moustache XRoad FS7 and would have liked an internal hub and gates belt but I liked the bike so bought it

[@Altema22]

Very interesting and informative video 👍 Most of my bikes are the traditional cassette or freewheel, but I actually did a 180 mile tour with an internal 3 speed when my primary bike was stolen, and it went better than expected. At the moment my favorite is an e-bike, which is a modified RadMini with dual Tesla batteries. I prefer torque over speed, but still need decent speed on group rides, so a bit of field weakening helps there. I'm fine with the usual 15 or so mph, but on group rides with mopeds, it's 30mph for at least 30 miles. The bike does well, but I would LOVE to change between the usual 5x gear reduction and a 4x reduction.

[@rjherb5895]

Hello Propel, and thank you for another great video! In the not-too-distant future I'll be getting rid of my car and relying on an e-bike for my sole means of transportation. I'm partially disabled and my social security income is no longer enough to maintain a car properly, thus, the e-bike. Assisted pedaling is great, but there will be times when I'll need to rely on throttle-only to get me back home -- the "motorcycle effect". And so at this time I'm thinking a mid-drive system with a strong battery will be in order. And I'm glad to see all of the new options available in running gear! My e-bike will be for pavement only with all traffic laws obeyed, and will not be used on any of the many bike trails in my area. Cheers!

[@AK-sc8tv]

Could you please cover the gear mechanism where the motor is on the front where the pedals are?

[@quantumfx2677]

My biggest concern with ebikes is the batteries as silver climbs in time ebike batteries will become unaffordable to own. We need to look into alternatives to using silver.

[@james-p]

They don't contain silver.

[@sandycheeks6748]

combining motor and transmission leads to a complex system that will be more tricky to maintain and if something fails, both functions are broken. It makes total sense to keep it separated. btw. Cars have engine and transmission usually also separated, I'd say, isn't it?

[@henkondemand]

It depends on the implementation, car transmissions are usually mated to the back of the engine. A system on the bike where the electric motor and the transmissions are mated but easily removable would work well I think. I like the idea of a unified system and I hope there will be more advances in this area.

[@RB-sr1oc]

Really informative video. Chris, any decisions on carrying R&M's Urban line? Will they sell those in the US?

[@Propelbikes]

I think there is a high probability. We are examining our strategy going forward, but we might just use Bosch as the standard we set for safety, reliability and serviceability. If other companies can match that we will consider. Fatzua is getting UL which is a good start.

[@fabiocorreia4272]

Is there a geared electric belt driven rear hub available? Great video. Thanks

[@robbi27]

Good video!!!!!!!!

[@lafamillecarrington]

There are still too few e-bikes using mid-drive motor with belt and hub gearing, which seems to me to be the perfect combination for a wide range of users. I'm guessing that the only way that these new systems get mainstream, is if they are bought up by a larger company that can get them into production e-bikes.

[@clrconinc]

I am having a difficult time sourcing a shimano motor and battery any sources?

[@carbide1968]

for a noob like myself what would recommend for belt drive internal geared and electric?

[@debbiedeboer9245]

Would it be possible to pair a powerful mid drive that can run without pedaling with a internally geared hub?

[@nickwinn7812]

Interesting. Thank you.

[@Angel283]

What bikes other than Stromer have the Pinion Gearbox system here in the US?? I have been searching but coming up nil.

[@lazmotron]

Great Video

[@leee2410]

I’m looking to replace my commute from car to ebike. I convinced on hub gears, but what I’m waiting for is fully integrated cables. I use to commute on a regular bike, and shocked by petty vandalism to the bike when locked on the street. I’m hesitant to buy an ebike with all the cables exposed and in easy reach of vandals. Now with hydronic brakes and electric gears integrating all be cables should be easy?

[@hkad6252]

When Schaeffler brings their ‚Free Drive‘ chainless / drive by wire system to market it will be an instant buy for me for commuting. It cant get more low maintenance that that.

[@JohnWallace74]

I think the future is non derailed drive systems for both pedal only and e-bikes.

[@dleebox2268]

I am digging that 3x3nine hub,whats your pick?

[@buffalomind6838]

I’m interested in the 3x3 IGH. I wonder when they will start selling them as it fits my wants the most.

[@bradnail99]

Same here. 3 by 3 hub with belt drive is what I’d like. Concerns about service in the future are very valid, in my opinion.

[@sulaimanhyatt8000]

Yeah i currently have nuvinchi/enviolo hub on my bullitt cargo bike, and its leaking oil all over every time i put torque on it, or cary a load. I am also interested in the 3x3 and the high torque it can take. Also even the new enviolo extreme hub can only do 100nm of torque.

[@ozsnowbum]

I feel like the industry is going the wrong way making things more complicated than it needs to be