Proper Pants Break & Length How To Hem Suit Trousers, Dress Slacks & Chinos: Full, Half or No Break?

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Gentleman's Gazette

Gentleman's Gazette

7 жыл бұрын

For the Written Guide on Proper Pants Break and Length, visit the link below:
gentl.mn/proper-pants-break
#pantsbreak #pantslength #notsponsored
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What's a break? The break is when the front of your pants or trousers hits your shoe and creates a little dent that is elegant and not too extreme. No break is when the hem of your pants just hang straight and doesn't even touch the shoe at all. Half break is if you see a slight dent in the front and full break if you have a noticeable dent in the front of the pants but none in the back. If you see pants that have dents in the front and in the back they are simply too long and it looks extremely sloppy.
Why should you care about the break in your pants? It really has an impact on the overall neatness of your outfit. If you wear a nice robe stripe double-breasted suit and your pants are either too long or too short, it makes you look goofy or sloppy. Also if you're a tall man and you have very short pants it exaggerates your height and you look even taller and sometimes like a clown. Also if you have a certain pair of socks that you want to show off maybe a half break is exactly what you want because with a full break your socks will be invisible.
To determine what break is right for you, first look at your pant hem. Is it cuffed or is it uncuffed? If it's cuffed that means you need less of a break. If you have an uncuffed pants and you go with no break it simply looks too short and the lack of the weight means that your pants will probably get stuck to your socks and stay further up.
If you wear cuffed pants you already have an advantage because you have more weight which pulls down your trousers more and it just creates a cleaner line and therefore you can have a shorter pants length and less of a break. If you prefer uncuffed trousers you could talk to an alterations tailor and add little lead weights to the size of your pants that way you have the same effect as with a cuffed trouser and you can get a very neat look.
Now with a tight pair of pants they touch your shoe a lot earlier than with a wider cut pair of pants where they touch it at the bottom of your laces. The wider the pants are, the longer you can hem them. The slimmer and tighter they are the shorter you have to hem them.
If you have uncuffed trousers in a wide full cut style you have to cut them a little wider but keep in mind even with a full break you just want a nice dent in the front and none in the back.
One thing I'm personally extremely fond of is a angled hem. This is something you usually only find in bespoke garments especially when it's a cuffed angle hem. When you angle a pair of pants with cuffs you actually have to create a faux cuff that is separately cut from something but it has the advantage that it's always long in the back and it probably can even touch almost the heel of your shoe but in the front it's cut higher so you get that slight break. It looks elegant with a black tie or white tie outfit because you get that slight break but that long line in the back.
Having angled pant hems is definitely one of the little tricks of the trade and if your alterations tailor doesn't know how to do an angle hem with cuffs you probably have to seek out the tailor or someone who is really experienced with custom clothing. Of course you can only do that if you have a lot of extra width or an unfinished pair of pants.
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Пікірлер: 187
@DanielCardenas23
@DanielCardenas23 6 жыл бұрын
I came here as a man and left as a gentleman.
@Daniel-zc6ee
@Daniel-zc6ee 7 жыл бұрын
I do not know what am I doing here when I am 15, but I like it. Keep up the good work sir.
@gentlemansgazette
@gentlemansgazette 7 жыл бұрын
It's never too early to learn the basics ;)
@roubeacon2401
@roubeacon2401 7 жыл бұрын
Sam378 i am also 15 ;D
@llllllolllllllll
@llllllolllllllll 7 жыл бұрын
never too late to lear how to dress like a Gentleman
@thefrog7697
@thefrog7697 6 жыл бұрын
Sam378 there is hop yet keep going 👏👏🖖
@andreamazzotta7108
@andreamazzotta7108 6 жыл бұрын
Good taste is ageless!
@shahzadzafar71
@shahzadzafar71 5 жыл бұрын
The level of detail in these videos is incomparable.
@ivantempski8130
@ivantempski8130 7 жыл бұрын
Your jacket in this is pure perfection.
@gentlemansgazette
@gentlemansgazette 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@mandeepbaweja3021
@mandeepbaweja3021 7 жыл бұрын
but sir its more like a 90s fashion jacket....definitely its not timeless.....people will look weird wearing this type of suit in 2017!
@wazzap500
@wazzap500 7 жыл бұрын
Mandeep Baweja who cares? there is no such thing as timeless. If he likes it he'll wear it and live with the consequences of his style choice.
@mandeepbaweja3021
@mandeepbaweja3021 7 жыл бұрын
but still thats the reason why notched lapels or medium size peak lapels with single breasted is timeless.....this suits is technically old fashioned and people might laugh at him wearing it however it fits great but still its 90s
@alessandropangia697
@alessandropangia697 7 жыл бұрын
A DB should have wide peak lapes, end of story. Are you saying DB suits are weird?
@hackprine5691
@hackprine5691 6 жыл бұрын
Now I'm all dressed up and no place to go.
@searchrankoptimize
@searchrankoptimize 4 жыл бұрын
You could look like Kim Thayil friend of Chris Cornell
@f1sfingb0at
@f1sfingb0at 7 жыл бұрын
It's never advisable to "skip" a video from Sven Raphael. Even tho you're not interested or think the title is not for you Sven will espouse some useful information.
@aiishmael4847
@aiishmael4847 4 жыл бұрын
honestly, thank you so much I really appreciate all of these pointers. I am graduating from college next year and I will begin my internship in January....I need a complete business professional make over...and your videos have been soo helpful! thank you!
@daniel1c
@daniel1c 7 жыл бұрын
"you sir, did not even know what to tell your tailor"..classic!
@lauradfield5484
@lauradfield5484 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you!! Here in the US men struggle with what is appropriate, and as I share what options they have, they simply are confused, so it becomes an educational fitting, yet they return knowing I can tend to their needs with no problems!! Great explanation!!
@tafri961
@tafri961 5 жыл бұрын
Your videos are just amazing.. We get exactly what we want.. This makes your channel so unique.. U talk about break and cuff both.. Most of the videos on break of trousers don't talk about cuff atall... Your stuff is well contained and researched ....Thanks for this great video..
@prinncesswade9800
@prinncesswade9800 5 жыл бұрын
I had so many questions AND YOU ANSWERED THEM ALL. Keep up the great work. New Subscriber!
@PicoFromTX
@PicoFromTX 7 жыл бұрын
That jacket is sooooooo money 👍👌 Love it !
@andreasjohansson4050
@andreasjohansson4050 7 жыл бұрын
Oboy how I have been waiting for this. Thank you very much for bringing us this video Raphael!
@ahjotco906
@ahjotco906 2 жыл бұрын
Your suggestion is timeless. Thank you.
@enigmaviki
@enigmaviki 7 жыл бұрын
Hey, wonderful guide ! Now I've started noticing breaks of my current wardrobe.... Rushing to the tailor.... ;)
@meph919
@meph919 7 жыл бұрын
I absolutely love the angled hem for anything w/o a cuff, it looks absolutely great on formal wear but can also be used with regular slacks or even a nice pair of dark wash jeans
@bigredgreg1
@bigredgreg1 5 жыл бұрын
Eugen, what you are describing is called, in blue jeans, “bootcut”. Bootcut jeans are noticeably lower in the back than the front, but also have a wider leg opening (but still not “bell bottoms”).
@caryespinosa7500
@caryespinosa7500 6 жыл бұрын
Great video on how to look for the break in the pants, and good information about adding small led weights in hemp pants to get the clean look.
@robinmaussire5000
@robinmaussire5000 7 жыл бұрын
Oh God! All these awsome pair of shoes! I'm so jealous! It was one of my favourite videos! Congratulations, keep going!
@Gigi780M
@Gigi780M 9 ай бұрын
Finally, the answers I have been looking for. Thank you!
@RedHeadDo
@RedHeadDo 6 жыл бұрын
Hate the angeled cuff! Love all the great details you provide, this is going to help me hem my Loves slacks properly! Thanks!
@Ustazgay
@Ustazgay 5 жыл бұрын
The one in the video is pointy at the back.. if it's tapered and more rounded it actually looks nice and not that awkward
@JasonNwin
@JasonNwin 4 жыл бұрын
The shoes were even worse.
@themodernmillennialgentlem9807
@themodernmillennialgentlem9807 7 жыл бұрын
Great video! I prefer a very very small break on a straight (uncuffed) pant. Love this and I plan on doing a video on this for young men soon
@Carlos10642
@Carlos10642 7 жыл бұрын
So informative Raphael!! Thank you.
@brianriley8553
@brianriley8553 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent advice from a very stylish Gent. Thank you. 😎🙏
@richardm7480
@richardm7480 5 жыл бұрын
Thank you for such an educational video! I learned so much from this!
@Lsu2012Bama
@Lsu2012Bama 6 жыл бұрын
Loved your video. It was very informative.
@arturosandoval3312
@arturosandoval3312 7 жыл бұрын
Raphael; amazing video! Very interesting topic, I think you should make a video explaining where the trousers should sit or how high the rise should be, since now the trend is wearing the trousers in the hips, which looks terrible in my opinion. The should be used as high as the waist.
@adrielrowley
@adrielrowley 6 жыл бұрын
First, fantastic and very informative video. Was told ages ago by an American tailor to touch the heel, and now I know that's American. Surprised didn't get mentioned. When you have your pants measured, wear the shoes you want to wear with the pants. Some have a steep rise and some shallow, affecting the look. BTW, myself very much dislike cuffs, excessive and can catch dust. Thank you.
@somnathganapa5789
@somnathganapa5789 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video! I'm 24 and really want to start dressing more formally. Thanks so much.
@morganthegreat1
@morganthegreat1 11 ай бұрын
Incredibly helpful. Thank you so much!
@William_Hada
@William_Hada 4 жыл бұрын
Awesome video! Explained everything and more.
@MarioJPav
@MarioJPav 7 жыл бұрын
Good vid with proper explanation. Thank you from London ;)
@markincambridgema605
@markincambridgema605 7 жыл бұрын
Dear SRS, Great job as usual. Please consider doing a follow-up on trouser tapering and cuff height. Thanks, Mark in Cambridge, MA
@dogrescuer1321
@dogrescuer1321 9 ай бұрын
5'10 or taller 2" cuff Shorter 1.75" cuff
@francoguillen25
@francoguillen25 7 жыл бұрын
Awesome content! Would love to see a video about gold chains and how to pull them off tastefully.
@Komomo69
@Komomo69 7 жыл бұрын
Haha! I LOVE the illustration of the too long pants!
@sergiom5907
@sergiom5907 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info, I just started paying attention to the fit of my clothes, I can't believe I've been doing it wrong for my entire life.
@danielmarino5647
@danielmarino5647 3 жыл бұрын
me too
@danielmarino5647
@danielmarino5647 3 жыл бұрын
though those shoes with the black tie look a bit goofy
@jdhsingi
@jdhsingi 7 жыл бұрын
Well presented information. Thank you for sharing.
@MultiMrMiles
@MultiMrMiles 7 жыл бұрын
the break, a really misunderstood thing by the masses, so this is a good message.
@GlobalAdventurer
@GlobalAdventurer 7 жыл бұрын
MultiMrMiles I hate seeing the majority of people in the USA wearing droopy long pants for dressy and casual events.
@ZeitlanKozan
@ZeitlanKozan 7 жыл бұрын
Wonderful and informative! I am going to be so GQ!!
@stylishoversixty9459
@stylishoversixty9459 7 жыл бұрын
Excellent video just one question does the type of shoes you wear such as loafers vs lace up dress shoes or chukkas factor in what style of break you should elect to choose thank for the helpful information!
@SSGTStryker
@SSGTStryker Жыл бұрын
I always liked having an angle 📐 to my dress trousers since I’m retired military. According to AFI-36-2903; “the bottom front resting on the front of the shoe w/a slight break in the crease. The back of the trousers’ legs will be 7/8 inch longer than the front.” However, I do tend to wear my chino’s with a slight break and straight across. Thanks for the video!
@leogartija
@leogartija 2 жыл бұрын
best video so far
@BillBaran
@BillBaran 6 жыл бұрын
Very thorough, thank you!
@Shrira123
@Shrira123 6 жыл бұрын
Your voice is so soothing I feel good in my throat. Very soooothing, indeed, sir.
@ZoomZoom-ng6sn
@ZoomZoom-ng6sn 3 жыл бұрын
Those angled hems look quite interesting.
@michaelangelo6947
@michaelangelo6947 5 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this informative video.
@brycedc9231
@brycedc9231 7 жыл бұрын
love the brown shoe and gray trousers. tho i dont appreciate the loafers that much
@newinspiration2108
@newinspiration2108 7 жыл бұрын
very nice guide! i've been waiting for such video for a while! will these ideas apply on jeans/denims?
@gentlemansgazette
@gentlemansgazette 7 жыл бұрын
Yes, most people wear denim way too long. Latelty they have often been slimmer but the same principles apply to all pants
@ronj5655
@ronj5655 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! This help a lot.
@Bernard3rd
@Bernard3rd 3 жыл бұрын
Raphael, First off, thanks for all of the great content and for presenting your smart and savvy outlook on style. I have a question about pant length when wearing dressy boots. Is it ever acceptable to hem your pants with less than no break without committing a style faux pas? What I’m curious about specifically is styling a pair of Allen Edmonds Dalton’s (or similar height dress boots) with some nice flannel trousers perhaps with a Navy pea coat and a sweater. With this or similar ensembles, can it be considered permissible to have the pants hemmed a bit less than no break (with a relatively small leg opening at the cuff) to show off the boots a bit more? I think that I know the answer to this question (which is to say that less than no break is not advisable), but wanted to get your opinion. Best, Bernard
@ernestoalvarado6202
@ernestoalvarado6202 7 жыл бұрын
very elegant jacket 🎩
@rishiwastad
@rishiwastad 6 жыл бұрын
Your video needless to say is brilliant ,could you please make a guide to suspenders and different types of classics pants. I am from India and I have no clue how to instruct my tailor about style, however he is good when it comes to fitting the pants.
@mtty1988
@mtty1988 5 жыл бұрын
If wearing a Prince Edward/morning suite should I have a hem for them or should they be hemless and cut made to length
@afrazahmad2819
@afrazahmad2819 5 жыл бұрын
I like wearing dress pants with a shirt but no jacket. What do you think to this look? I love the channel by the way!
@danielmads9160
@danielmads9160 7 жыл бұрын
This helped me so much! But I've got a question! Does this look good on Chinos or only on dress pants?
@gentlemansgazette
@gentlemansgazette 7 жыл бұрын
Of course on chinos too
@enterusername7746
@enterusername7746 7 жыл бұрын
Thank you.
@BennyChavez
@BennyChavez 6 жыл бұрын
Sven what size cuff do you recommend? 1.5inch or 2.0 inch?
@rastrats
@rastrats 5 жыл бұрын
Wow! I'm in the middle of self hemming and needed the angled uncuffed look toward the finish. Could you please cover variations in pant leg lengths. Do the inlegs have to be identical length, even where outlegs lengths differ by a smidgen, say 1 cm? My trousers are patterned so this is proving a headache, visually. One hem at the rear is so short it comes over the top of my shoes when walking. The break at the front is ample, so I need an angled hem, with lengthening at the back.
@Razzzordback
@Razzzordback Жыл бұрын
What about slight break(something between half break and no break) in uncuffed slim dress pants, not too wide or skinny gently tapered . Can i wear them with slight break.??? I notice they look better with this break without cuffs. More clean line and they dont stuck to my socks.
@esthervilla8285
@esthervilla8285 9 ай бұрын
thanks a lot
@chucks2018
@chucks2018 6 жыл бұрын
It seems like the cuff-less one could have more material inside to help hold it down. Could do this when hemming.
@mic9check
@mic9check Жыл бұрын
Achieving the perfect break is the hardest task in getting dressed.
@briancorley1159
@briancorley1159 7 жыл бұрын
Great video, if you don't mind, I'd like to share this on my tailor's Facebook page, also you should make cufflinks of your logo.
@juanarce6900
@juanarce6900 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Rafa, break is very important. I am 5'5" so a slight break is my choice.
@dogrescuer1321
@dogrescuer1321 9 ай бұрын
What leads to that choice?
@sambolino44
@sambolino44 2 жыл бұрын
I recently bought some trousers and almost had to fight them to get a full break. It's a bit frustrating when you have asked the salespeople for advice, and then they seem to assume that you don't have any of your own ideas about how you want to look. Or they will try to guide you towards what is fashionable today even after you have told them over and over again that you want a classic look and fit. My opinion about how trousers should break is heavily influenced by the only tailored suit I've ever owned: the green dress uniform I received at Marine Corps boot camp in 1981. If I remember correctly, they were angled, but only in the back; the part in front of the seam was straight. I don't remember them paying much attention to the break per se, or how the fabric bent at the front, as much as the fact that the rear hem was supposed to be even with the top of the shoe heel. I tuned in to this video in the hope that you could show me how to do the work of hemming my pants myself. I consider it to be a skill as useful as how to sew a button, and being able to do it yourself really helps when you are shopping for used clothing on a budget. I really appreciate how you always seem to bear in mind that many of us cannot afford expensive clothes or custom tailoring.
@expatesquire6110
@expatesquire6110 6 жыл бұрын
Hi, I just bought a pair of blue dress pants. They do not have pleats in the front. They are not hemmed on the bottom. When I have them shortened should I have cuffs or no cuffs? Thank you. I think I heard once that if there are no pleats then no cuffs, but I'm not positive. I respect your opinion. Thank you!
@dewzahundred
@dewzahundred 7 жыл бұрын
can this be applied to jeans or casual pants
@Gilmaris
@Gilmaris 6 жыл бұрын
The first example of angled hem, at 05:06, is extreme. I don't like the look of that at all. A _slight_ angle is good, but when it is so angled that it stands out, I feel it has gone too far. Also, you say an advantage of the angled hem is that it is long in the back - how is that an advantage? Not that it's a _disadvantage,_ but on the other hand I can't really spot the advantage, either.
@ricardobh29
@ricardobh29 7 жыл бұрын
Hello good day! What is the name of music that opens the video? thank you!
@tomburke4652
@tomburke4652 5 жыл бұрын
A half break is the best. But depending on what style shoes or boots you wear.
@jacobsummers3441
@jacobsummers3441 7 жыл бұрын
ugh i like cuffed pants better. Only problem is im too short, so i wear uncuffed. Any solution to this?
@13adam131
@13adam131 4 жыл бұрын
How much longer should the back be?
@Sam-lj9vj
@Sam-lj9vj 5 жыл бұрын
I always go Peaky Blinders style, boots with shorter pants.
@chrisdorio6750
@chrisdorio6750 5 жыл бұрын
Good info here
@NoName-zo5qb
@NoName-zo5qb 2 жыл бұрын
Nice vedio thks
@brapman3698
@brapman3698 5 жыл бұрын
What material are the trousers made off at 2:16 ?
@MrJackrockerman
@MrJackrockerman 5 жыл бұрын
I saved the videos how to dress like gentleman... another 5 years i'll repeat watch.. currently i dressed chinos,distressed jeans and sneakers..
@johnniebeck727
@johnniebeck727 2 ай бұрын
How much angle or difference between front and back lengfh of pant legs?
@ardentdfender4116
@ardentdfender4116 2 жыл бұрын
I had over the last 3-4 weeks about 40 new unfinished Dress Trousers Tailored for Regular Hems and the others a Cuffed Hem. Some were Dress Chinos Trousers and Wool or Wool Blend Trousers. Was custom fitted for every set of Trousers took to Tailor. It ended up that the Trousers I was having Cuffed were 3” off ground in my Dress Shoes, so shorter than my other pants with slight to no break. My Regular hemmed Trousers were often 2-2 1/4” off the ground in same shoes with a more medium break. It’s kinda good if you ever get a lot of tailoring done to keep the measurements on how your pants are measured for your individual fitting so you know.
@benderbendingrofriguez3300
@benderbendingrofriguez3300 7 жыл бұрын
are there bespoken shoes, or the word bespoken is just for suit?
@BennyChavez
@BennyChavez 6 жыл бұрын
thank you for your amazing videos.. keep up the good work... what length do you recommend cuffs be? 2inch? Thanks again!
@dogrescuer1321
@dogrescuer1321 9 ай бұрын
5'10 or taller 2" cuff Shorter 1.75" cuff
@BennyChavez
@BennyChavez 9 ай бұрын
thank you! I've been doing 1.5.. I like how it looks.. I'm 5'9 @@dogrescuer1321
@jessamalala6203
@jessamalala6203 2 жыл бұрын
My sis was the youngest of 4 girls and the one before 2 boys, so every time we needed the hem of our trousers to be done we gave it to her she was prob 13 when she did my first one and having just the basics knowledge of hand stitching I remember seeing her doing the hem in an angle since she didn’t like the socks to be that visible Asking her once when did she learned that she said common sense that was early 70’s. This video brought me back to those times Ps. Mother wouldn’t mind doing it but my sis didn’t like the way it looked 🤷‍♂️
@TRUSTINYAH
@TRUSTINYAH Жыл бұрын
Don’t lose sight on the Kingdom of God 🏞️ all that is in the world is soon coming to an end. Seek God whilst He may be found. Jesus saves ✝️🙏 no religion saves; Catholicism etc only Jesus my friend
@jeffinjapan9005
@jeffinjapan9005 7 жыл бұрын
Being only 172 cm tall, shouldn't I only go with un-cuffed paints?
@roninscholar4515
@roninscholar4515 Жыл бұрын
I never know what to tell my alterations tailor...because I don't have one. On a side note I am 5'9" with a 30" inseam. In america it is common to find 30" the minimum length to be had...hence all our sloppy folded breaks.
@4082410557
@4082410557 5 жыл бұрын
Is it acceptable to wear 1953 Gucci horsebit loafers with full break pants? Not a fan of showing my ankles or socks!😬
@trident1012
@trident1012 4 жыл бұрын
Half-break is the winner horse.
@JK-zv5of
@JK-zv5of 2 жыл бұрын
Is it right wear to pleated trouser with suit - either 2 or 1 pleat and what would be bottom measurement 17 inch is right if knee measures at 19 inch. Will pleated baggy pants will be return as trendy one in 2012?
@JK-zv5of
@JK-zv5of 2 жыл бұрын
The year mentioned should be read as 2022 instead of 2012. Sorry for typo error.
@lowlowsandclothes9923
@lowlowsandclothes9923 Жыл бұрын
I have some 1950s cut “Ricky Ricardo” style Dress pants and they have to be hemmed properly or else they slip under your shoe because of the width
@TheGrandmaE
@TheGrandmaE 2 жыл бұрын
Very informative as I am Hemingway my grandson's wedding pants and I wanted them to be in fashion and how he wanted them! The suit is custom made
@iloveharrold
@iloveharrold 2 жыл бұрын
What about turning the shirt collar?
@DennisDuda
@DennisDuda 7 жыл бұрын
Some of my pants have a problem where the hem hangs behind the back of my feet. My calves are a bit more muscular than avarage and i think my pants are hanging on them which creates this weird look. My pants are not really slim, more classic. Can someone help me with this?
@marioburgos712
@marioburgos712 5 жыл бұрын
XorSki Depending on how muscular your legs are, you should go with a wide classic or a slightly loose fit. It's up to you the finishing on the trousers' hem.
@mr.pariah8255
@mr.pariah8255 4 жыл бұрын
Elegant? I've only ever thought of that ripple as an eyesore myself.
@Tolyan97kartofan
@Tolyan97kartofan 5 жыл бұрын
I feel uncomfortable for some reason when I wear no break pants, shin gets too opened when walking
@jackchueh1231
@jackchueh1231 7 жыл бұрын
What shoe at 3:27?
@Giantcappuccino
@Giantcappuccino 5 жыл бұрын
I keep waiting for this guy to pull a really long silk scarf out of his sleeve.
@GenX6887
@GenX6887 7 жыл бұрын
I usually prefer to buy dress pants with a shorter length. But short enough of course to create that right break.
@jamesthacoolcat9926
@jamesthacoolcat9926 7 жыл бұрын
I have an athletic builg so i always go for flat front and no cuffs on my dress pants.
@Alberad08
@Alberad08 5 жыл бұрын
Does anyone remember the ridiculous overlong trousers of the early nineties, creating those accordion bellows over your shoes?
@tomkohlman1503
@tomkohlman1503 Жыл бұрын
Great video, more men need to have a little more respect for themselves in how they dress. 100 years ago, everyone wore suits, blue collar, white collar, black, white, poor and rich people all wore suits. Now it’s sweat pants and baggy shirts. Time to change things up and dress dapper!
@sainaveenbali
@sainaveenbali 7 жыл бұрын
my tailor says these days its fashion to have 1-2 cm above ankle , can you suggest
@user-go3tf6oz7p
@user-go3tf6oz7p 7 жыл бұрын
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