Frank Turek's Weird Obsession with Hollywood Stealing from Christianity

[@cplus14]

If you read Narnia carefully, you may notice that Azlan bares a striking resemblance to another prophesied savior: Harry Potter.

[@ProphetofZod]

Hahahaha! I think you win the internet for the day.

[@j.christie2594]

😁

[@ProphetofZod]

@caitlyncarvalho7637 True, but they’re such generic storytelling tropes that appear so often in cultures around the world (often significantly predating Christianity) that the attempt to pin it on Christian influence seems as selective as it is vague.

[@bobbywinland1602]

​@caitlyncarvalho7637 The same way Christians do, just without the invocation of a deity.

[@bobbywinland1602]

@caitlyncarvalho7637 From what I can tell based on statements of Christians, it can actually hinder dealing with them, because many Christians believe negative experiences happen because humans inherently deserve them. In cases where the cause is truly external, this can lead people to waste time and possibly exacerbate the problems because they look inward to figure out what they are doing to cause the negative experiences instead of actually trying to solve the problem. For negative experiences with internal origins, the belief can still exacerbate the problem because people will attribute them to their rebellion toward Yahweh, or towards failing living up to their interpretation of the religious standards, or even externalize the origin of the issue to Satan or some demonic influence, all of which will lead to the person being unable to find the source of/address the issue. The first step of solving a problem is to determine that there is a problem and the nature of the problem. If your go to method of explaining problems is that they are supernatural in origin and that the solution is too, you will be akin to a person in a pitch black room the size of a football stadium trying to find a piece of tape stuck to some surface when trying to solve a problem. Sure, you might eventually find the piece of tape, but it will be due to blind luck, when you could have simply turned on the light and made the search that much easier.

[@Arlondev]

I like how Frank's criteria for a character being like Jesus is them being part of a prophecy and fighting a bad guy. You know, like every single "Chosen one" hero ever committed to film or paper in the history of media? Including older myths from other mythologies that predate Christianity by centuries

[@ProphetofZod]

Yeah. They think "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" is "The Hero with one Face and That's Jesus"

[@ThEjOkErIsWiLd00]

@@ProphetofZod It definitely has the same energy as "All other gods are actually misinterpretations of MY god."

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

But the prophecies "about Jesus" are mostly delusional fishing for hints in a less complicated form of 'bible code' and when the frick did the wandering preacher fight ANYBODY? He even had a nice talk with the bloody DEVIL and split amicably from Satan... Christians like Frank seem to get confused a LOT about their favorite Low Fantasy story of all times. Cause they are trying to flex and bend it into various shapes to "win arguments" all day long, there is nothing left unbent and unwarped that they could hold onto.

[@stubbyhawk1]

I agree whole heartedly with one caveat: The other, and seemingly most important characteristic to Frank, is cultural popularity. The more popular the movie, the more Christian it must be.

[@KopitioBozynski]

@@ThEjOkErIsWiLd00 Rome really did rub off on the christians in all the wrong ways didn't they? That's exactly how Rome operated. But instead of calling everything that's not them barbarians they called them pegans instead.

[@wyattcastle7225]

I thought the reason why hard-core Christians were okay with LOTR and Narnia was because Tolkien and Lewis where both deeply religious so the magic in their universe was okay.

[@joshuaa7266]

That's probably the case, also both of those stories are significantly older so they had time for Christians to get used to them.

[@mattm8870]

In the Chronicles of Narnia series it literally spelled out Aslan is just the form that Jesus takes in that universe/world.

[@monsignorerasmus.6441]

This is why I'm a speculative fiction guy, all those sword and sorcery stories always had the oily tinge of Christianity to it, like when you drink water in Odessa texas.

[@nunomartins2209]

​@@monsignorerasmus.6441 Well its normal those storys had some christian undertone but christianity itself borows alot from greek etc myths

[@darkstarr984]

No, it’s because those are an allegorical story developed from Christianity and an otherworld retelling of the Bible.

[@stephentaylor356]

'Nobody believes that someone can actually fly around on a broomstick...' I wanna see Frank Turek debate Greg Locke now...I've never wanted anything so bad in my entire life.

[@josephpostma1787]

I don't get it.

[@stephentaylor356]

@@josephpostma1787 Greg Locke believes witches actually fly on actual broomsticks. He also seems to think that tapping his mic on the pulpit and dancing on one leg protect him from evil...kinda like a spell.

[@josephpostma1787]

@Stephen TAYLOR Ha! Is this on a POZ response? I think it was on telltale where I saw a guy who was yelling at his demonic speaker feedback.

[@josephpostma1787]

On second thought, I think the microphone man is Greg Locke; I originally thought your OP was referring to Greg Koukl.

[@gregcampwriter]

My fundamentalist parents forebade science fiction, fantasy, and shows with violence in the house when I was a child precisely because they saw such things as coming from the Devil. I spent as much time as I could at friends' houses, and when I was home, I took up a position on the couch that allowed me to see the garage door light and the TV at the same time. Oh, and since TV remotes had a call-back feature to see the previous channel, I changed the channel twice. Espionage agencies should recruit children raised in fundamentalist families.

[@wolf1066]

"Oh, and since TV remotes had a call-back feature to see the previous channel, I changed the channel twice." You obviously had more highly-advanced remotes than I did. That said, just the fact you had a remote at all was more advanced than our place - for years our "remote" was "while you're up, could you change the channel, please. Oh, yeah, and grab me a drink while you're in the kitchen... cheers."

[@cerberaodollam]

Ngl that is genius.

[@babsbylow6869]

A wonderful example if the addage "Strict parents create sneaky children". 😆

[@wolf1066]

@@babsbylow6869 I hate lying. I avoid doing so whenever possible. But I'm exceptionally good at it because being able to lie quickly, convincingly and consistently was a survival trait while I was growing up. One of the great things about having grown up is that I can tell the truth without fearing disproportionate reprisal. Another great thing about growing up is that you *_can_* eat some biscuits or drink some milk without having to feel guilty or lie about it.

[@BawonSamndi]

had to do the same techniques but with the porn tv channel

[@goldenageofdinosaurs7192]

I like how Frank points out how ridiculous believing in witchcraft & flying on brooms is, yet his Christian forebears believed exactly that. I wonder what aspect of their beliefs will look ridiculous in another 300 years (hopefully all of it).

[@altosack]

Hopefully sooner than that (please god, how about in _my_ lifetime?!?), but since we seem to be regressing at the moment, I share your pessimism.

[@ProphetofZod]

Harry Potter only deals with silly magic like flying on brooms, not real magic like divination.

[@2l84me8]

They look ridiculous now.

[@skepticsinister]

Excellent point!!!

[@TheLuckySpades]

@@ProphetofZod *sad professor Sybill Trelawney noises*

[@LeetaMaybe]

He mentioned chronicles of Narnia and then in the same breath says Harry Potter is the most like Jesus of any character recent literature. Bestie, the Lion is LITERALLY JESUS.

[@tarmairon431]

Narnia is not exactly recent.

[@LeetaMaybe]

@@tarmairon431 He said "modern" which is pretty vague, but TCON came out 1950-1956, which is modern by most estimations... plus he listed them himself when listing modern hollywood fiction because the movies came out 2005-2010. Cewis Sewis Lewis isn't exactly an ancient author.

[@kellydalstok8900]

I don’t think Joanne Rowling is particularly religious, and she just borrowed from other myths as well. Although her hero, who also return form the dead, might as well be borrowed from any of the other dying-and-rising gods, like Osiris, Tammuz, Adonis, Attis and Dionysus

[@francesconicoletti2547]

@@kellydalstok8900 or like everyone else she read CS Lewis and Tolkien. Both have characters that die and rise again. One author straight out said the character was Jesus the other said he didn’t do allegory ( yeh ) . Between the two of them though they made resurrection a secular fantasy trope, it’s even a d&d cleric spell.

[@mattm8870]

@@kellydalstok8900 Harry survived because he and Lord Voldemort were horcruxes for each other. That is it has more to do with phylactery used by D&D liches the only change is that the person is still living and it only uses a fragment of the soul.

[@corwin32]

Serious question-does Frank legitimately not know that _Chronicles of Narnia_ is directly a Christian allegory?

[@fidelluz2942]

probably he doesn't know

[@ShawnPattonC]

He definitely doesn't know about the Jesus-Allegory-Lion

[@aralornwolf3140]

I wonder if he did the Golden Compass....

[@lauraberg6872]

And the context in his magic is presented in the Narnia and LOTR is different. Some come to it by thier race (elves are magical and wizards are but humans by and large aren't or get corrupted by it). Narnia series has it used by those who know what they're doing, and does talk about evil magic.

[@robertmiller9735]

Probably. Lots of Christians think it's satanic, I kid you not.

[@boo2424]

Man at least my mom was consistent, hated me having to do with any fantasy with dragons. She declared it after I read CS Lewis. Then forbade me from hanging out with nerds to play D&D like it was drugs . Obviously rebelled and bought Skyrim. Even as a Christian this sounded insane. So, yes, thank you Frank. When I was an adult, I caught my mom watching game of thrones and called her out. Good memories

[@zacheryeckard3051]

How did calling her out go? Very curious.

[@Ididnahthither]

I'm sure that's just a minor sin and it's already been forgiven.

[@boo2424]

@@zacheryeckard3051 oh! Nothing much just “Hey [older sister] Have you finished GoT?” “Mom! That show has DRAGONS in it? Why are you watching it!! You said dragons cause curses!! I “Well uh you see-uh!” Once, at a family dinner, she lied about not smoking weed after high school, I said in front of everyone “YOU SMOKED WITH US ON VACATION A MONTH AGO!” She was like shshshhhhh!! “ XD It makes a bit of sense she converted to Evangelical Christianity after her first and last acid trip. (PSA: don’t take acid from strangers. or else you’ll hallucinate people peeing on you and you’ll definitely feel like you need Jesus.)

[@boo2424]

@@Ididnahthither I don’t think it’s a sin but she was really into this book called “blessing and curses” and it had a *spooky* story about someone keeping a vase with a Chinese dragon on it and their family was apparently cursed with I’m not actually sure what specifically. Just bad luck and arthritis? At least that’s what I remember. I remember my sister writing the women in our family were cursed with bad husbands lmao

[@rembrandt972ify]

See, even your mother has the ability to grow and change as a person. You should tell her you admire her ability to realize mistakes in her life. And quit ratting her out when she doesn't want to admit to family things she's done in the past. I gotta go, my high horse is double parked. :P

[@patrickwalsh8913]

Darth Vader didn't join the dark side because of a lust for power, he joined the dark side out of a fear of losing the ones he cared about. He already lost his mom, and thought he was going to lose his wife, and Palpatine was able to manipulate that fear and use it to turn him to evil. Just goes to show how little these guys understand popular media.

[@tedferkin]

Or how close it is to religion. The fear of losing people forever, pushing them into a cult with promises of eternal utopia

[@necrosunderground]

100% correct. It was Anakin's love and fear of loss that turned him. Yes, he was arrogant because he was so strong in The Force, and his anger at being denied by the Jedi council was a factor, but in the end, those were simply the character flaws the Palpatine used to get in good with him, and his fear of loss was the last brick in the wall, as it were. Being a Sith master, Palpatine was a master manipulator, and knew exactly how to play Anakin like a violin. But it was ultimately Anakin's attachment to his loved ones and fear of losing them that brought him down.

[@Hailfire08]

1. Bible uses common storytelling tropes (good vs evil, good guy loving bad guy selfish, etc) 2. Other stories use common storytelling tropes 3. Therefore other stories must've stolen it from the Bible because [similar thing] Checks out.

[@randolphphillips3104]

You would think they would avoid comparing their story to common tropes lest people realize it might get be fiction, too.

[@patrickwalsh8913]

It's actually worse than that. Their conclusion is: 3. Therefore, the Bible is true, even though it does not follow at ALL from the previous two statements

[@jonsmith7659]

They’re very similar. Harry Potter is fiction. So is the bible. Except we know who wrote Harry Potter. And nobody claims it’s factual. But if we do what Frank does, we can use the book to prove Harry is real.

[@AnnoyingNewslettersPage6]

I beg to differ with your assertion that, ”Hollywood does not prove God.” Movies, books, comics, etc., all show how imaginative humans are, and how much we live through stories, just like with religions and the gods they worship. He's proving our point that man made god.

[@Ponera-Sama]

Two movie references in, Frank is actually kind of correct about Harry Potter having a christian-inspired narrative. While Zod was right that a lot of the stuff he mentioned is a lot more ambiguous than how he presents it, J. K. Rowling did base a lot of story elements (like Harry seemingly dying and rising from the dead) on biblical scripture. But then Frank goes totally off the rails when he starts talking about Wonder Woman, a character and story that are EXPLICITLY based on Greek mythology. Ares is a Greek God, Zeus - who is responsible for creating Wonder Woman - is a Greek God, and Wonder Woman herself is an Amazon, a tribe that originated from Greek mythology. To call that movie christian because of a couple lines about truth and love makes about as much sense as looking at the "Left Behind" series and saying it borrows from Norse Mythology and the stories about Ragnarök. It only gets worse with Star Wars. Alan says that Darth Vader joined the "dark side because of his lust for power and control", which is obviously wrong for anyone who watched the whole series. Anakin joined the dark side because he desperately wanted to protect the ones he loved, and Palpatine - Palpatine as an individual, not "the dark side" - was the only one who offered to help him, whereas all the Jedi did was tell him to suck it up and stop caring about his loved ones dying. And while moral complexity and nuance aren't the Star Wars films' strong suit, the prequels do make it quite clear that the Jedi's philosophy and the way they treat other people's suffering was not ideal and had the potential to do real harm to people, and that the way they handled Anakin's situation is at least part of the reason for his descent to the dark side. It gets especially ironic when you realize that within the films, Darth Vader and Sidious' deformed appearance was caused by their battles with Jedi, not simply "being on the dark side". Did Frank and Alan even watch the prequels, or are they just going off the original trilogy?

[@brianstevens3858]

AS much as I think your breakdown is accurate and well thought out, much much better than Tureks, I must say, the real reason tthat they chose the darkside is we have cookies.....

[@petitesayo4542]

I disagree for Wonder woman. I remember being very annoyed to see the greek myths being adapted to look like christian stories, completely disregarding the actual original myths. Movie-Ares is litterally just a rip-off of the rebellious Lucifer, while Zeus is "God". That doesn't make any sense at all. Ares isn't Lucifer like, at all. Ares isn't supposed to rebel against his father. He's actually fairly loyal to him compared to other gods. His goal also isn't to make mortals battle against each others. He's not the "favoured son", he's the neglected one. I really do not understand why they even claimed that he was the favoured child ? Like... what ? Did they even read one of the greek myth ? Or did they just google "Greek God of war" to decide that Lucifer could be called that ? If you want to be faithful to greek mythology, Athena would be a better choice for the "Lucifer-Like" character because she's litteraly the favoured golden child that always does what she wants and even rebels against Zeus numerous times. This story and characters aren't based on greek mythology. Their name and symbol may, but not their actual personality, nor behavior. They're litterally just Lucifer and God being given the name of Ares and Zeus. I really do not understand why they always pull this "rebellious son rebels against Father" on characters that have litterally nothing to do with the Bible. It's something you can notice in an awful lof of american movies. Seems like they can't take a myth and just adapt it without putting their own beliefs in it. So yeah, I kind of agree that the movie was adapter to christian culture. It has been "americanized" in the eyes of non-american people.

[@Ponera-Sama]

@@petitesayo4542 it's also what they did with Batman V Superman. Their version of Lex Luthor was a PureFlix level strawman atheist who directly compared Superman to God and specifically made a problem of evil argument as his motive (all the while ignoring the fact that Superman isn't omniscient or omnipotent). Superman in the DCEU was very clearly made into a Jesus figure and the writers appear to deliberately make his villains into atheist stereotypes, with even the Kryptonians in Man of Steel being made to represent "evolutionism" to the point of explicitly saying nonsense lines like "evolution always wins". This is especially frustrating when you know that Superman was originally created by two Jewish guys who used him to convey how they feel alien in christian USA.

[@Uldihaa]

@@petitesayo4542 But Lucifer being a rebellious son is from Milton's "Paradise Lost", isn't it? As for Greek mythology, it depends on which versions you are reading.

[@666FallenShadow]

@@Ponera-Sama i'm so glad i'm not the only one who noticed the evolution always win line. it really feels like man of steel was written by a creationist in some parts

[@MrElionor]

Gotta admit trying to convince others the Bible isn't just a bunch of stories made up by people by comparing them to a bunch of stories made up by people is certainly a... novel approach

[@stylis666]

LOL! That's one way to put it :D He's writing the book on showing how you know a story is made up. But... he already gave away the theme of his story at the start: "...nobody believes that we can fly around on brooms, so this is obviously a fictional story." And that makes hims very annoyingly predictable. He's doing the inCregible, where you just say a thing is silly and therefor obviously not true and Turek adds that many people think it's silly and therefor not true and therefor christianity is true because many people believe it to be. I think it's abusive to constantly encourage people to be hypocrites by setting it as an example like he does over and over and over again. It's one thing to make a mistake, it's another to keep harassing people with the same harmful example over and over and over.

[@nathanjasper512]

@@stylis666 So if people believed in people flying around in broomsticks it would be true? Like bigfoot is obviously true then.

[@stylis666]

@@nathanjasper512 That is indeed exactly the whole argument Turek made: Harry Potter is obviously false because no one believes it, therefor christianity is true, completely ignoring all other things many people believe that Turek thinks are false, showing who exactly his bullshit is aimed at: christians in a christian dominated area. His aim was to reaffirm people's already existing unfounded beliefs and giving them more fallacies and thinking errors to use as rationalizations. And that is abusive and evidently people love being abused and abusing their peers and children and making everyone less able to actually deal with actual reality in sustainable constructive ways and put feel good bandages on everything instead and excuse that with more thinking errors and fallacies. And for some reason we're told to tolerate that. Well, I'm sorry, but I can't. Those children didn't deserve the abuse that faith provides by definition. Their parents and the peers of the parents do though and they should be held accountable for the damage they do, not get a free pass.

[@VintageRitz]

@@stylis666 So Christians are just showing the veracity of "Small Gods" by Terry Pratchett? Does Frank know? Should they add the book to the canonical scriptures?

[@sbushido5547]

He was stretching so hard with the Tony Stark stuff at the end. It would be much easier to compare that to an American atheist's journey: He was blissfully unaware of the reality around him until it literally blew up in his face. It was then that he realized that almost everyone around him had been lying to him his whole life, and he set out to find the truth and try to repair the damage he'd perpetuated in his ignorance. See, Frank? We can do that stupid crap too.

[@markcostello5120]

Hey Frank did you not notice the recurring theme with Tony Stark was that he was driven by fear that Earth would be destroyed? He didn't become a super hero because he resolved that "fear in his heart" it remained up until his death. In fact he first rejected continuing being a superhero for *fear* that he would risk his daughter's life.

[@bluedragonfly8139]

Honestly, I'm glad you explained the joke about Will and Jaden, because I had no idea that happened and wouldn't have gotten it at all, lol.

[@rightpa]

Frank has it backward. It's not that everything is like the story of Jesus. It's just that the story of Jesus was a trope even its own time so it looks like everything. The story of Jesus is so unoriginal that it can be projected onto any story of struggle.

[@karlazeen]

As an aspiring artist I don't completely hate religion, in fact I love it for its artistry in symbolic storytelling and metaphorical mythology. Religion becomes a whole lot fun and enjoyable when it's just treated as cultural legends instead of literal events that apply to the real world.

[@ProphetofZod]

I agree. The Bible could be a perfectly okay book of stories if fundamentalists didn't ruin its symbolism.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

@@ProphetofZod I mean... we might have to cut a *couple* bits...

[@mads2357]

@@zacheryeckard3051 I think the old testament has "cutting bits" pretty well covered

[@chloetabohakanema9459]

@@mads2357 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@skepticusmaximus184]

​@@zacheryeckard3051 Right... but cut out the crap bits and you won't even have any toilet paper left. 😆

[@Squallkicks]

Hey POZ, I'm a big fan, but I'm honestly glad Alan and Frank are encouraging Christians to watch this popular entertainment as it also brings up ideas that conflict with their world view and squashes magical thinking when it comes to media. So many Christian kids never get to watch anything fun because of demons or curses (seriously).

[@slevinchannel7589]

Atheist-KZbinr Telltale argues that more Atheists need to run for Office, countering all kinds of Extremiasts (who he covers epicly, btw), who literally openly said 'We plan to flood the Office with our People!' I'd like as many Peoples opinion/view on this as possible!! Like you?

[@LordTails]

Frank was literally doing the equivalent of the "Is this a Jojo reference" except it was devoid of substance. Another great video PoZ!

[@eh9618]

hey, at least when people point out jojo references..they can have a laugh about pointing out jojo references is itself a jojo reference..no matter how absurd the actual reference is..frank here is basically trying to "all roads leads to rome" his way to jesus

[@hughmongoose8966]

It’s also devoid of Jojo references.

[@marcusreading3783]

Ironically enough, according to Jojo, Jesus WAS a Jojo and might even have had a Stand.

[@hughmongoose8966]

@@marcusreading3783 Ah, now I remember. Part 7 is about gathering Jesus’ holy relics.

[@eh9618]

@@hughmongoose8966 you mean body parts

[@FearlessNimue]

OMG ... there are many key differences between Luke and Anakin that has always made this apologetic example mute for me.. 1 - Anakin turned to the dark side in hopes to save his wife from the death he had dreamed about. 2 - Luke lived a charmed life until his uncle and aunt were murdered. Anakin's childhood was spent as a slave. 3 - Luke had motivations to resist temptation that Anakin did not possess. 4 - Anakin and Luke are more of a study about the pull between Nature vs. Nurture.

[@庫倫亞利克]

You're expecting apologists to see things in their nuances and outside their own very narrow and warped preconceptions. But your statement has raised an ominous thought in my mind: that if Luke had the upbringing of Anakin, if his personality is shaped by more suffering, he might not have fended against his own fall to the Dark Side so well. But again the same could be said about real life, about how everyone is shaped by their circumstances, and people generally agree that the suffering in one's past doesn't justify the suffering they inflict on others. I'm still willing to believe that the temptation Luke is given by the Emperor pulls as strong and urgent as the temptation Anakin receives; and by proving to his face that yes, the Dark Side can be fended off, Luke shakes Anakin out of the decades worth of learnt helplessness.

[@Irisarc1]

I know it never occurred to Frank that it might be that the Jesus story was the hero's saga, common throughout the world and which existed long before Jesus, instead of the other way around. Kind of sounds like a modern version of Justin Martyr's supposition that the devil planted every other hero and god in history just so we would be confused when Jesus eventually showed up.

[@stevewebber707]

What I learned from Frank today. If you try hard enough, you can make parallels between his Christian ideas and stories, and various works of fiction. It even works for the bible. Honestly, this felt like two preachers discussing ways they can incorporate modern culture into their sermons to make them less boring.

[@skepticsinister]

Dead-on point! Excellent take.

[@eh9618]

maybe we should try making parallels between christianity and islam and see them fight which is fiction that's parallel to the true one

[@stevewebber707]

@@eh9618 So basically you're saying, put a Muslim and Christian apologist in a room together?

[@eh9618]

@@stevewebber707 to quote ishiro serizawa..let them fight

[@faelheavymetal]

But that's what exactly what it was.

[@ProfessorPlink]

Excellently done, PoZ! And you beat me to it. I was considering responding to Frank about his comic/fantasy commentary lately, as that stuff is my jam. But you did it beautifully here :)

[@architectureoverwater]

Lol not to be THIS kind of nerd but the magic in Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings are wildly different. Harry Potter wizards are humans who can do magic in very specific ways with lots of rules and lore, and Gandalf is basically the equivalent of a demi-god or an angel. Also he said that the magic in Harry Potter isn't like divination where they talk to the dead...as if that is a real thing that people can do lol

[@rainbowkrampus]

Well, I'm glad you said it so I didn't have to. Also, been a while so I could easily be mistaken, but don't they talk to the dead at one point in HP? Also also, LotR is worse in some respects. LotR posits a god plus a pantheon of gods plus a whole gaggle of minor deities. Talking to the dead happens a fair bit too.

[@Ididnahthither]

That's what he believes, remember, he's quite dogmatic.

[@architectureoverwater]

@@rainbowkrampus They literally take a divination class in HP. And there are ghosts living in the castle...And Harry's parents as well as other people show up as ghosts at the end before Harry "dies". And you're right, LOTR does have essentially a pantheon of gods and minor deities. It also takes a very deistic approach where basically the top god created the world and then left it to the lesser gods and even they eventually stopped interfering. Not something you can gather from just surface level enjoyment of LOTR, because a lot of that is only in additional writings like the Silmarillion and I take it that's not something Frank Turek is read up on lol. Also, yeah, there's a literal ghost army lol

[@tarmairon431]

@@architectureoverwater I think what he meant is that no real person thinks you can talk to the dead by using spells from Harry Potter

[@architectureoverwater]

@@tarmairon431 He might have. I do know real Christians who believe that going to psychics and stuff like seances and oujia boards are evil and really truly things of the devil, so it sounded like he was trying to say that Harry Potter isn't bad because their magic isn't like real world witchcraft

[@christophermonteith2774]

star wars can be used against their argumentation so much that its honestly hilarious. for example, the entire plot of the prequels, or Luke's actions in the sequels. and as you said the constant horrific injuries and suffering of both the good guys and bad ones. Admittedly, it can also be used to support their arguments...from a certain point of view

[@FearlessNimue]

Just like ANY Bible verse

[@christophermonteith2774]

@@FearlessNimue probably

[@CAPSLOCKPUNDIT]

Also, Luke Skywalker demonstrates that one can transcend the sins of the father through compassion, introspection, and self discipline. Skip to 18:19, where Allen Parr provides counterpoint to the doctrine of Original Sin.

[@patrickwalsh8913]

"A certain point of view??" Luke says, frustrated

[@ericslingerland5472]

Frank's pitch here immediately reminded me of the Heart of Truth videos Logicked responded to like 4 years ago. Which basically boiled down to wonder women proves god because she represents david in the bible, and legend of zelda proves god because link represents david in the bible, etc

[@SadisticSenpai61]

Um, Tony Stark didn't have a girlfriend at the beginning of Iron Man. He had a personal assistant that didn't put up with his shit and that was in no way interested in her boss in any other than a professional capacity. I've only watched Iron Man once and I remember that off the top of my head. Tony's relationship with Pepper didn't really start until... Iron Man 2? Iron Man 3? Somewhere around there. Even then, she was still his personal assistant, so it was a pretty yikes-y relationship. Don't date your boss. It's just not a good idea. And if I recall correctly, Pepper struggles with trying to maintain that level of professionalism while she finds herself actually liking Tony as he starts getting his head out of his ass. It's also worth noting that while Tony was heavily into the weapons industry, he didn't know that his company was selling to terrorists and... prohibited countries. That's what first made Tony suspicious of Stane - because he saw firsthand that the weapons that were used to attack the convoy he was in came from his company. Ofc, he later finds out that Stane had leaked the info on the convoy Tony was in specifically because he wanted Tony killed so Stane could take over the company completely. It was that experience that "changed" Tony. And the Iron Man series also makes it clear that Tony didn't stop being a playboy that did all the typical rich asshole stuff just because he tried to get his company out of the weapons industry or at least greatly reduce their involvement in the weapons industry. That was one of the major plot points of the 2nd movie - Rhodey was sent to work on Tony to not only keep him in the weapons industry, but also sell the US government Iron Man suits. Like, I'm not a Marvel fan and while I've watched almost all of the MCU movies up until Avengers Endgame (at which point I kinda lost interest), I'm far from the kind of person who's watched the movies over and over again. If I can remember most of this off the top of my head with only a little bit of googling to remind myself of the names of certain characters, then how does someone who claims to love the movies get them so freaking wrong?!

[@torreysauter8954]

Good thing nothing whatsoever in Christianity took inspiration from anything else. It was all completely original and not influenced by the culture of the day or prior traditions. Also culture did not exist elsewhere in the world until Christianity got there, so the only place anyone even CAN draw inspiration from is Christianity 🤦‍♂️

[@ProphetofZod]

Sadly, when you grow up with the Christian narrative and don't learn a lot of other history/anthropology, you think this is literally true.

[@altosack]

Excellent summation, with the only appropriate delivery method: dripping sarcasm.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Really strange since they have to acknowledge that christianity is an off-shoot of judaism.

[@michaeleldredge4279]

12:00 Frank Turek "You know what we never say? 'God, why don't you stop me?'" Um... Yes we do. That is the cry of every religious person trying to overcome an addiction or a temptation and not finding relief from prayer.

[@facundocesa4931]

Well, the Bible does say God doesn't want crippled people into his temple, or people with one eye, or one testicle. 🤔

[@ProphetofZod]

True, but that's not because of consequences of evil. It's just God being an ass.

[@lightningfirst689]

So many books, movies, shows, etc. reference Christian stories, or at least the idea of a higher power in general, yet their examples still seem like major reaches.

[@ProphetofZod]

Yeah... A higher power is a really broad concept, and alluding to the Bible is as inevitable as alluding to anything else. It's pretty pointless

[@dolfuny]

Yeah I agree that a lot of stories take from christian mythology but the examples they gave were not great lol

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

It's hilarious how surface level (when he's not completely missing the point) Frank's interpretation of these films is

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

But not surprising. His interpretation of the bible is at the same level and of similar "quality".

[@stylis666]

Yes, but I think that credit is due where credit is earned and Turek successfully shows that you don't need the bible to be inspired - the stories in the bible are everywhere. Too bad that he doesn't notice that people who live now would far more easily relate to contemporary stories than to some long haired dude who lost his hair in the iron age and with it his super strength. Also, kids are used to better story writing, so some military guy killing his daughter as a thank you for god helping him slaughter people would not land with them. It would require a lot of brain washing from the parents or religious leaders or sunday school teachers to even make it make some kind of sense to a child, let alone that they learn anything from it but: god is quite the stupid sociopath for accepting the offer and the daughter might even be better off dead than with a father like hers. So Turek could've done a lot better if he took that all the way, but he still did a good job showing that the bible is meaningless because you can just as well read any other book or go and watch a movie the important themes are everywhere. Hm... it's almost as if intelligent, empathic, social animals think about things and have emotional lives and grow socially as well as personally. I think we're probably better off with contemporary stories, they have probably adopted new and evolved views on ethics that fit better with contemporary society. So, thank you Turek, you're an inspiration. I will savour this extra ammo and every time I use it I will think of Turek and smile :D

[@Ididnahthither]

I love how Christians ALWAYS have to bring up the "epistemological Vs ontological distinction" and how we don't understand the moral "argument". And yet, they actually believe that the problem of evil comes from a place of hate for God, when it's actually an argument that, you know, aims to show that there is no God.

[@minskghoul]

To be fair, the original author of problem of evil - Epicurus believed in gods, but believed that they don't give a damn about mortal world and worshiping them is waste of time.

[@MrElionor]

I love that his Turrek's response to the problem of evil is "shut the fuck up before God smites you"

[@jon66097]

Small correction, aims to show that there is no good God. Or at least not a good, all powerful God. Technically, this dilemma still allows for a "God", but you either have to sacrifice "Good" or "All Powerful", which Christians never want to do.

[@Ididnahthither]

@@jon66097 of course you're right, I was just trying to word it simply.

[@Oswlek]

*I love how Christians ALWAYS have to bring up the "epistemological Vs ontological distinction"* I'd like to see someone ask Frank what the ontological basis for finding the smell of dog shit to be disgusting is. Not what goes into our perception of smells in general, but what makes it offensive. Does he think there is some independent standard out there that deems certain smells good and others bad?

[@foppishdilletaunt9911]

That Frank - really rapping to the kids on their own level. What a groovy Xianinanity he offers for today’s troubled World.

[@ProphetofZod]

Hahahaha! Perfectly put

[@dragonturtle2703]

If anything, it’s more that the dark side is more like drug abuse, in that it is hell in their body and mind. In their pursuit of power and selfishness, they sacrifice most other things. Some of the more attractive or noble Sith are less deformed, but this is usually from prioritizing their outward appearance, or in the latter case, not fully embracing the dark side like Count Duku.

[@bdf2718]

Batman can never permanently defeat evil because if he did then there could be no more Batman comics.

[@Zalinth]

That line at 8:53 "Wonder Woman - her power isn't really a lot of physical tricks..." really got me. Copy pasted directly from Wikipedia : Diana is depicted as a masterful athlete, acrobat, fighter and strategist, trained and experienced in many ancient and modern forms of armed and unarmed combat, including exclusive Amazonian martial arts. With her godlike abilities of incalculable superhuman strength, nigh-invulnerability, speed, flight, fast healing and semi-immortality, Diana's fighting prowess is enhanced. In some versions, her mother trained her, as Wonder Girl, for a future career as Wonder Woman. From the beginning, she is portrayed as highly skilled in using her Amazon bracelets to stop bullets and in wielding her golden lasso.[166] Batman once called her the "best melee fighter in the world".

[@curiousandmorecurious6689]

A few thoughts A) It is do shocking that one of the most popular/well known pieces of writing is used over and over. Who could have guessed writers would take advantage of stories/tropes/archetypes that are well known and already accepted by the viewing public? B) With his superficial connections, did Frank pick up on the overuse of the initials J.C. for savior characters, from John Connor (saves humanity) to Jiminy Cricket (saves a wooden boys soul as his conscience) to John Carter (saves Mars)? It gets reused over and over C) the reason that Batman can't clean up Gotham and stop fighting crime is quite simple; the publishers want to keep selling Batman stories who is going to buy a comic about a crime fighter who doesn't have any crime to fight?

[@hank_says_things]

I applaud your resilience, Zod. Listening to these two used-god salesmen shout tenuous bullshit at each other would’ve driven me to supervillainy in about two minutes. BTW it’s no surprise to me that two guys who base their entire philosophy on Hebrew mythology have no fucking idea how fiction works.

[@karlazeen]

I think if Frank really wants to appeal to the youth with christian messages in media then he should try some anime, Trigun and Neon Genesis Evangelion are two great examples of popular anime with explicit christian themes and are genuinely well written stories too. The former in particular was written by a christian manga author and even has a scene where one of the major characters confesses his sins in a church before dying. Like I'm doing a better job at Frank here for evangelization ideas.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Sign me up for the Church of Neon Genesis. Hymns will be a blast. "We all, return, to nothing..."

[@andregroo]

better job than Frank... well the bar is not that high, is it?

[@utubepunk]

Neon Genesis Evangelicalism.

[@BestAnimeFreak]

And don't forget that one of the characters in Trigun is a priest who is literally carrying a cross that he uses as a weapon xD That certainly is a more appealing and 'badass' kind of 'Christianity', than the vague and weird stuff that Turek tries to interpret into anything ...

[@karlazeen]

@@BestAnimeFreak I guess frank would condemn that as being "too violent" while simultaneously believing in a book full of it. There's also the fact that Vash and Knives are both literally allegories for jesus and the devil. Damn trigun is a pretty christian show and I enjoy it as much as believers do, this could have been a great way to sell the religion to the youth and Frank blew it.

[@iluvtacos1231]

I love the look on Allan's face while Frank is talking. Just the epitome of "what the hell is he saying?"

[@vixevinweria8400]

I hate how they convince Dr. Strange. He drank tea and then had a crazy trippy experience and he assumed it was because of something in the tea, which is the most reasonable conclusion, but then they tell him there was nothing in the tea and he immediately believes them. It's not until after he agrees to join that they show him the most convincing thing they have; people consistently performing magic. I just always thought it would have been better if he had accepted the tea and got to busy talking to bother with drinking it nd when he had the trippy experience he tried to blame the tea to which they remind him he hasn't touched his tea yet. Even though he could rationalize that they must have refilled his tea while he was tripping balls it would at least be slightly more work to rationale it, and it works so much better than just going with "oh yea dud we totally didn't drug your drink bro trust us. lol".

[@kellydalstok8900]

*WHICH is the most reasonable conclusion. It must be all this talk of wizards and witches that caused the glitch.

[@vixevinweria8400]

@@kellydalstok8900 Yep.

[@shriggs55]

"The last enemy to be destroyed is death." Wait.Why is death the last enemy to be destroyed? Why not the first enemy to be destroyed? It takes a tremendous and over the top "faith" to believe that death will be destroyed on some promise(empty)made by some ancient men from an ancient book.All the miracles that Jesus or the disciples demonstrated were done in the present--except the one that mattered most in everybody's minds--death.But it's easy to make a promise that no one can confirm until after death.This is a godspell.On the level of speil that cult leaders vomit out.

[@kellydalstok8900]

*spiel

[@aaronyandell2929]

Did Frank and his buddy miss the part that many of the Jedi were...well...rather unfortunate-looking aliens? I guess that ruins the whole idea that people who follow the Light Side are somehow without flaw. They also failed to realize that the Jedi philosophy was flawed to the point of serving a role in turning Anakin Skywalker. The dry, emotionless "guidance" from the Jedi (especially Yoda) couldn't be farther from perfect.

[@wyattcastle7225]

Just a bit of semantics but Ares isn’t Wonder Woman’s brother, he’s her half-brother and grandfather.

[@realrealwarpet]

Okay, to be fair…frank actually IS right about Wonder Woman. Her greatest strengths sre truth and love. This was undermined by how she beat him in the comics. Snapping his neck. The most loving option.

[@ProphetofZod]

I thought with truth he'd at least talk about the lasso, but he couldn't even make his bad point properly.

[@realrealwarpet]

@@ProphetofZod i wish he’d talk about scarlet witch. Itd be terrible and wrong, but watching him squirm with magic would be great to see. Also, she died and came back to save mutants, despite everyone of them treating her like satan. Soooo, wanda is mutant jesus?

[@lnsflare1]

@@realrealwarpet Isn't Hope supposed to be Mutant Jesus?

[@lnsflare1]

I mean, at a certain point Truth and Love really can't do much more and you have to cut out the tumor.

[@realrealwarpet]

@@lnsflare1 who isn’t mutant jesus at this point. Cause, originally it was cable, then it was hope, currently its wanda, and she isn’t even a mutant anymore!

[@KellyDVance]

I wonder if Frank just completely missed the end of Iron Man 3. He literally has the surgery done to remove the shrapnel so he doesn't have to "guard his heart". Kind of rips up the narrative.

[@Unhandled_Exception]

Extra, Extra read all about it... Turek finally learns what Tropes are.

[@atticusrex2691]

If we pointed out that Anakin's fall is partially the fault of him being a literally slave, they'd say it wasn't harsh enough slavery to have an impact on him

[@pmtoner9852]

Speaking of stolen elements of a narrative proving the older version to be true, Frank, the epic of Gilgamesh really wants to talk to you and Noah

[@lnsflare1]

Hinduism might want to have a talk about Trinitarianism, too.

[@kellydalstok8900]

@@lnsflare1 What about the Egyptian trinity Osiris Isis and Horus. Their depictions of Isis and Horus look an awful lot like those of Mary and Jesus.

[@grapeshot]

And in the later movies it does show that the rebels are not always acting in good faith. And war is a lot more complicated than just black and white.

[@bradypustridactylus488]

I have seen Stephen Woodford do this with Jungian archetypes. I saw Jordan Peterson draw his own archetypes on the fly. I don't know what this line of reason accomplishes, but hey, I'm game. Does this exercise by Turek and Parr illustrate the Texas Sharpshooter Archetype or the Spaghetti-on-the-Wall Doneness Test Archetype?

[@rodneytgap5340]

I knew that Frank wasn't exactly good at textual criticism because I've seen him talk about the Bible, but it still shocked me to hear him explain story tropes this poorly. Just bring the meaning you want with you and shoehorn it in, Frank. Don't actually engage with the material...

[@kellydalstok8900]

Maybe he should bring some lube as well.

[@karlazeen]

Star wars has religious themes, wow shocker! I absolutely didn't know that until father Turek and brother Parr told me!

[@ProphetofZod]

Yep. And religious themes=Christian themes, so apply the transitive property, and...

[@karlazeen]

Not even that, the jedi and the force in general is primarily derived from eastern philosophies like taoism and bushido.

[@phillipspassmore]

I actually laughed out loud at Wonder Woman. Considering the weird character origin with the creator being into bondage so her weakness is being tied up... Comics are weird and focusing on a pro feminist character as pop culture stealing from Christianity is absolutely hilarious.

[@inwyrdn3691]

The "We need genocide to have free will argument" is one I hate so much. You can have free will to make a choice without every choice being available - let's call this "practical free will", for example I have the free will to play basketball or soccer but not unicorn polo. Their god could easily have made a world simply without murder as an option. When I go to the ice cream place, I can choose between chocolate, vanilla, strawberry, blue moon, etc. Simply because "eating the brains of the ice cream shop worker" isn't available doesn't mean I no longer have any choices.

[@checkoffgames]

This actually pretty funny

[@francesconicoletti2547]

If one accepts for the sake of argument that both god and free will exists all choices are not available. God created this universe where I cannot choose to be in two places at once, or according to many Christians apologists I cannot choose to know the nature of good as god truly knows it. Those are features not of me or my choices but of the way god built this universe. God could build a universe with other limits, like the impossibility of doing evil. There would still be choices, they would all be good.

[@eaglescott17]

"Batman can't win!" Isn't the land Gotham is built on literally cursed? Also, Batman isn't just, "Beat bad guys to a pulp and lock them up!" His company is heavily directed toward actually trying to reduce the circumstances that would make people become criminals. Given how much power his company has, the only reason Gotham isn't a paradise is because it is cursed (and, of course, there needs to be the story).

[@michaelreindel6975]

“Your modern mythologies are presently stealing from the ancient mythologies that *my* mythologies previously stole from…” 🙄

[@supernovel7514]

The Odyssey has influenced a good deal of western literature and culture which in part influenced Film history but I don't see anyone talking about that.

[@jaredgreen2363]

He doesn’t realize that most Christians who are against Harry Potter actually believe in witchcraft. And of those that do, they are also against lord of the rings and anything that looks even remotely like it.

[@azuregriffin1116]

I met someone whose parents wouldn't let her watch HP but were ok with TLOTR lol

[@historicalbiblicalresearch8440]

Those nice Christians tortured, then burned or hung up to 50,000 old women in Europe as witches

[@petitesayo4542]

It's not that he doesn't realize, it's that he's scared that we do not believe in that.

[@robertmiller9735]

Sounds to me like he argued against that... but only so he could steal Harry Potter's themes for his apologetics. What he doesn't understand (in my opinion) is that the magic he believes in isn't fundamentally different from the magic in stories.

[@patrickwalsh8913]

All the Christian parents I knew growing up who were against HP were ok with LOTR

[@jeffreyfiegen1538]

Just jumping in about the point on Star Wars (which they've either never watched or deliberately misread the message), Anakin turned to the dark side because Palpatine manipulated him with the nightmares about his mother and Padme, and the promises to be able to prevent Padme's death that he saw in his dream as well as bring back his recently deceased mother.

[@patrickwalsh8913]

Yupppp

[@pauligrossinoz]

Turek reminds me of those apocryphal medieval theologians arguing over how many angels will fit on the head of a pin. 🙄 He's become so lost in fictional narratives that he can't see empirical reality anymore. I love reading fiction, but I have no trouble realising it's just fiction!

[@nathanjohnson9715]

I can't help but think that one of the reasons I'm seeing evangelicals now embrace Harry Potter is that now that since JK Rowlng has outted herself as being anti-trans, people like Frank Turek see her as being part of the in-group. Obviously I could be wrong here. I certainly hope I am, but at this point I have trouble giving these people the benefit of the doubt.

[@napper1958]

I imagine being an apologist is almost as exhausting as it is listening to their convoluted bullshit..They got to keep re spinning the same old tired stories to make a living..

[@ProphetofZod]

I wonder how much it just starts rolling off their tongue as a reflex. It seems like an unrewarding existence.

[@CantonWhy]

@@ProphetofZod To think that he'd want to groom a kid to do the same thing... that'd be real weird. The job sounds like a nightmarishly boring dishonest tapdance.

[@RayKosby]

At 24:37 Frank describes Ironman's Tony Stark as starting out as an amoral arms dealer, billionaire playboy who has what most men would want: money, power and great girlfriend but he's still not happy. I was under the impression he was happy once he Pepper became his girlfriend. Am I forgetting something? He was even happier when he started a family. Either I need to watch the movies again, or Frank needs to watch them for the first time.

[@flowingafterglow629]

5:00 I don't even know how they "had to believe in his final plan" etc or whatever you said. Harry didn't have a plan for the final battle. McGonnagal and the teachers worked to defend the castle when Voldemort showed up when Harry was there, but what was their option? Let the deatheaters take over? And it's not like they weren't ready to fight - at least, the young ones showed up ready for battle. They were just waiting for an excuse. And after Harry was "killed", he just showed up from his invisibility cloak and there were battles going on. Bellatrix was dueling Mrs Weasley, random deatheaters were dueling random Order members, etc. So they thought he was dead and were battling away. Their actions in the final battle had nothing to do with his "resurrection" or their "faith" in him.

[@kellydalstok8900]

And it was Neville Longbottom who killed the snake that was the final horcrux. So you could say that Neville was the “chosen one” after all.

[@ZachariahWiedeman]

OMG 🤦‍♀ Darth Vader succumbed to the Dark Side because he was abused by the Jedi. Even George Lucas knows this! The Jedi subjected Anakin to unnecessary trauma on top of trauma he already suffered, denied him the ability to process his trauma, and almost rejected him because he isn't emotionally detached enough at age nine (in other words, they want him to be a sociopath, I guess) and he wasn't really young enough to properly brainwash (Episode I). Then, when he obviously began to suffer a mental health breakdown, rather than giving him support and treatment, he was instructed to bury his feelings and let them fester (Episode II). The Chosen One prophesy was not that he would be "the next big Jedi" - it was that he would bring balance to the force. Balance: A very strange thing for the Jedi to pursue considering the Sith were all but wiped out and/or in hiding and the Jedi were dominant throughout the galaxy. The light side of the force was dominant. The dark side was nearly non-existant. The only way to bring balance to the force would be to raise up the dark side and diminish the light. And that's kind of what he did. Or at least, that is the process he started by first wiping out an organization that was none to commit g***cide and literally abduct to brainwash them into their order. Pop Culture Detective: The Case Against The Jedi Order kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoazdWStbJ13a6s

[@robertmiller9735]

So, writers in Christian-dominated cultures use Christian-associated themes when writing their stories. Wow! Oh, and he really does believe Christianity has copyright on, well, pretty much all story themes really. Lots of Christians do.

[@kellydalstok8900]

When much of the bible is plagiarized from earlier myths.

[@finngswan3732]

This genre of Christian analysis is a thorn in my side as a writer and as someone who loved this type of analysis. It's the insane, useless mental gymnastics and puts blinders over ACTUAL media literacy. Plus, I feel like it narrows creativity in a more pervasive way than restricting what people watch. I'm likely biased.

[@dragongirl7978]

Ugh, his whole argument about the "stopping evil at midnight" thing rests on the assumption that you agree with the absurd Evangelical idea that all sin is equally bad because it all falls short of God's glory.... as if a nick on your car and getting your car totalled are the same because they both fall short of what you'd like your car to look like. Which literally is only ever used as an apologetic tactic. Most Christians don't believe this doctrinally, and it's extremely rare to find someone who believes this in their heart even if they do believe it doctrinally (and the ones that do believe it in their hearts are generally self-hating people who also do horrible things). But apologetically it's like oh no, God can't stop genocide, because then he'd have to destroy you, too, because you yelled at your kid that one time after a long day at work. Seriously? 😑

[@antitheist6698]

You should all consider sponsoring PoZ on Patreon. Just my opinion.

[@Dustin_Bins]

That's incredible how much people want to see jesus in everything. When Frank Turek was going through the "xstain elements" in various movies the first thing that popped in my head is when people saw jesus in toast. In discussions it's always best to talk about the evident truth; as other words like truth or evidence can be corrupted by those who see evidence of their belief in everything.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

If you get older and find that you cannot see Jesus in anything you get really desperate to first see him in SOMETHING and then to see him in EVERYTHING. The rest is make belief, literal LARPing.

[@kellydalstok8900]

It is possible to see Jesus on the butt of a dog though

[@TalonCain]

It's almost like Joseph Campbell was on to something with his mono-myth research was on to something. Oh, and Hollywood has definitely heard of Campbell's work.

[@Hailfire08]

Ah yes, the Bible is just like Star Wars. So Jesus grew up a slave in some backwater town, was taken to Jerusalem and was shown to be the Chosen One to the Pharisees, but they were wary because of his age. He was trained anyway, and became the greatest... Pharisee? Then a war kicks off, Jesus is groomed by Tiberius I guess? Jesus falls to the dark side, executes the separatist leaders, and is maimed and left for dead by the Pharisee that trained him. Some time later, his son meets with said Pharisee and goes to the fortress where Jesus is holding his daughter hostage. Jesus's kids escape, but his former Pharisee trainer is killed. Jesus's son is trained by some of the few surviving Pharisees, and returns to meet his father again. Jesus turns back to the light side and kills Tiberius, but is mortally wounded in the process, and his son then goes to start a new Pharisee order. If that's not the story of the New Testament, I don't know what is.

[@revenice1122]

I like how frank clearly didn’t read the books since he was unaware that divination was a class at The school and Harry literally conjured the spirits of his dead loved ones for moral support before he faced Voldemort.

[@doctabaldhead]

I am amazed that he skipped all of the trademark heavy handed and ultimately meaningless biblical/King Arthur symbolism that Snyder loves to force into his movies and was absolutely stuffed into BVS. Instead he went on some nonsense tangent about Lex Luthor and the mere concept of Batman.

[@lonewolfgamingplus379]

Snyder used Excalibur as a reference for BvS. I don't understand why you think it's forced in..

[@herozero5555]

I'm glad you caught this and it's funny because Church by the Glades, as well as other churches, have been passed this idea of relating Hollywood film to Christianity. "Church by the Glades-- At the Movies"! Great subject to talk about!😜👍👍

[@TheTruthKiwi]

So, Frank made a big point of saying that Harry Potter is fantasy and fiction and then went on to point out how Harry Potter and Christianity are connected.

[@LogicAndReason2025]

I'm surprised that they are not freaked about the 1939 Wizard of OZ movie. Intended or not, OZ is god, and Dorothy's dog Toto is her doubting mind that discovers that OZ (god) is just an image projected on your mind's inner screen by a frightened little wizard (priest) for the purpose of controlling the masses. Even the yellow brick road reeks of a religious pilgrimage of travelers seeking things that they eventually discover that they already had and therefore didn't need OZ (god) in the first place.

[@littlecoloreddots]

Funny that they don't ever see the opposite. That stories had been around forever and Christianity was bound to borrow some of those themes when the oral stories got repeated and refined and eventually written down. We all know there is blatant 'borrowing' from earlier myths and legends throughout The Bible. They just can't seem to stop projecting.

[@RedAngelSophia]

Hey - I _liked_ AFTER EARTH. Most people did not - but probably because it’s deep philosophical themes (one of the things that I _loved_ about that movie) were too much for many people.

[@pierregibson6699]

Considering the fact the Bible is Literally a direct copy of the Egyptian book of the dead you would think they would be mindful of plagiarism 😮

[@altosack]

“Literally a direct copy…” Those words … I don’t think they mean what you think they mean. Many of the story lines and themes came from there, yes. But what you said, just no. When refuting religious nonsense, please be accurate and don’t give them low hanging fruit to discard what you say.

[@karlazeen]

Ikr its annoying, this wasn't plagiarism this was cultural and artistic influence which is still a damnable sign that this is all fiction.

[@rimbusjift7575]

@@altosack Gotta love an Indigo Montoya quote.

[@altosack]

@@rimbusjift7575 - I assume autocorrect attacked “Inigo”. Yep, I use him all the time, as well as Westley, Fezzik, and occasionally Buttercup & Vizzini.

[@seraphonica]

It's funny how Frank's version of "not allowing evil" sounds like yet another movie series - the Purge

[@lnsflare1]

Here's the thing: Jesus didn't succeed in anything. He died a failure without actually changing the hearts or minds of any of his living alleged enemies who we can actually verify existed. It's just that the people who identified themselves as his followers claimed that he actually won in spirit, trust me, and that a few people that we have no evidence of actually existing converted to worshipping him at the last second, and then they were left to fend for themselves being either ignored, shunned, or actively oppressed for the next few decades/generations while his enemies lived out the rest of their lives continuing to rule nations. If Harry Potter was like that, it would have ended with Harry still dead in the forest and Voldemort going on to rule England/the Wizarding World forever while some random wizards several countries over start claiming that the Resurrection Stone had actually brought Harry back to life long enough to tell everyone that they had actually won, after which he apparated back to the world of the dead for some reason.

[@loonyman83]

Love the new look! Great video as well. Keep it up PoZ.

[@cliveadams7629]

Strange how FT doesn't see the irony of comparing his bible to other fantasy superhero stories with no basis in reality. You couldn't make it up.

[@nathanjasper512]

Or apparently you can.

[@baconsarny-geddon8298]

Co-incidentally, I'd just watched 'Wonder Woman', right before watching this video, and Frank Turek mis-represents the movie (and even THEN, with Frank's distorted versin, the comparison to Christianity is extremely tenuous...); Turek (mis)quotes WW as saying "it's not about what we (humanity) deserve; It's about what you believe", but that's the exact OPPOSITE of the movie dialog. In the movie, Woman explicitly says that she IS saving humanity because (she believes) it's what they/we deserve, and it's "Steve", her romantic interest, who says "it's not about what we deserve; it's about what you believe!!" (and I won't go into the whole plot, but the movie clearly portrays WW as being correct, in that conversation, and Steve being wrong). And Turek's line about "Wonder Woman doesn't use strength and power and lightning to defeat her enemies; She uses truth and love!!" is just laughable. WW is portrayed as ridiculously over-powered, in this movie (to the point of removing all stakes/suspense, because she shown to be undefeatable, with no weaknesses; There's never any possible way she could lose)- She literally throws around tanks, and runs through brick walls like tissue-paper. Sure, she has the same "lasso of truth" that the character always has, but [spoiler alert... if you care about "spoilers" in an average, super-predictable, 6yo movie] the movie's climax is just Wonder Woman pummeling the villain into the ground. Physical strength is the character's most critical, most frequently-used asset, in this movie. The "truth" thing is only a minor plot-point.

[@elpretender1357]

There comes a point where I start doubting Frank is trying to make christianity popular for the younger generations by talking about ho superhero movies relate to the themes in christianity. I think it's paranoia actually. A bit like the "red car" phenomenon: if all your life revolves around Christ and christianity, you may start seeing it everywhere.

[@ProphetofZod]

Exactly. That's kind of my conclusion at the end. It's also hard to tell whether it's targeted at youth or at parents desperate to reach the youth.

[@oscargr_]

@@ProphetofZod Follow the money, I guess.

[@timothy8428]

So, essentially, a thing superficially resembles a thing, so it is a thing. Such profound! So insight! Wow!

[@HellbirdIV]

Since other commenters have already made note of hwo Turek seems to have completely misunderstood the character arc of Anakin Skywalker, I think I'll just make my comment about how he also blatantly doesn't understand Tony Stark's arc, for a very simple reason: Tony *was not* miserable as a billionaire playboy arms dealer, he was *loving* that life. It wasn't until that was taken away from him and he spent weeks with a cellmate who taught him about the harshness of life that he decided he could use his resources to better the world. And yet, doing this wasn't to make Tony happy - by the end of the series he's not happy to be Iron Man, but it's something he feels he must do for the sake of the world. It's an almost anti-Christian message of how putting the weight of the world's problems on any one man is only going to be more destructive in the long run, for him and for the world.

[@Marniwheeler]

Well said.

[@grapeshot]

Well Lex Luthor is right about the whole god is tribal for gods are tribal. Because god or gods didn't make man in their image, man made these deities in their image.

[@ProphetofZod]

What? It wasn't just a simplified lesson on the problem of evil? :D

[@wax99]

When I was growing up, just like Frank has bible glasses and sees everything through them, my mom had chancla glasses, and saw everything throught them. Suddenly every single thing I did (or didn't do) was a chance to throw it at me.

[@ScrollsofSombra]

Same with me and being a furry/brony with my HEAVY HANDED religious nuts for relatives. Though to be fair if one Christian nut tried HARD ENOUGH they could compare Nightmare Moon x Celestia to y'know. Jesus and Satan. Surprised they never bothered. Showed the extent of their hate of me and their cherry picking in hindsight

[@grapeshot]

Interesting because Christianity got a lot of its beliefs and traditions from Judaism and paganism. Of course Christianity came out of Judaism.

[@kellydalstok8900]

First Temple judaism, to be precise.

[@kristofftaylovoski60]

I am going to start asking God to stop incompetence... "Deliver us from incompetence and lead us not into poor decision making" Amen.

[@iseriver3982]

Harry Potter books are influenced by old English words and every kind of fictional fantasy myth you've ever known. So obviously jesus would be one of those influences 😂

[@dolfuny]

My mom will see movies and think they have Christian themes and will mostly ignore me when I try to point out that love and evil are not inherently Christian ideas but I guess the idea that her religion really isn't all that special is too much

[@dragowolfraven3806]

Hahahahaha Oh wait You're serious? Here let me laugh even harder. Ahahahahaha- Bender