Is Buying an Airplane for Flight Training Worth It? // #64

Karl emailed us asking about purchasing an airplane to complete his flight training instead of paying the very high aircraft rental costs in California. Mike and Sean break the pros, cons, and costs of this method using real world examples.
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Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:55 ATP Flight School Episode
05:54 Karl's Question
09:14 Why would some one want to buy an airplane to train in
10:28 Before you buy a plane
11:54 How much would an airplane cost
14:32 Sean's plane
17:18 Possible pitfalls
18:04 Instructor costs
19:10 Engine overhaul
20:14 Aircraft purchase price
23:29 Why NOT to buy an airplane
26:49 Other ways to make owning an airplane cheaper
30:00 Flying clubs
31:15 Take action & start training

[@carlosbetancourt7241]

Awesome video! And great info, thanks for the content guys 😁

[@WalidFeghali]

This came at a perfect time! I'm looking at getting a time builder type plane too, and this gave me some great input. Thanks guys

[@paulnagel8161]

I've been waiting for this one! Another great episode.

[@JayVazquez]

Thats a great idea to explore. Never thought of it. Another great episode! Please keep them coming.

[@alphabravoflying]

Great podcast as always gentleman. I bought into a Cessna 182 club to help complete the remainder of my training. My flight school planes were not sufficiently equipped or available to help me get through my instrument (I have my check ride next Monday, Oct 2). I have recently gone part-time at work and am able to take the plane on my days off and just time build. I am running this 182 at an average of $113hr ($35 dry then burning around 10-13 gal per hour.) I have been extremely blessed in this club which is only 10 people who only fly here and there. Everything you are saying in this episode was things I thought through over the past year. Thank you guys for taking the time to make these and hopefully I will see you all at an FBO or in the same jet together soon

[@RobOnRefresh]

Great stuff guys and perfect timing for me. I've been considering this very thing but so far couldn't really make the numbers work on my own. I think the idea of fractional ownership is probably the best way to go. Less risk and expense all the way around. The trick is just finding the right people who are ready to do the same thing ;) Thanks so much for posting this and keep up the excellent content!

[@ianbutler6571]

Insightful. Thank you!

[@wesleysims5435]

When he said that rental price was on the upper end, all I could do was shake my head. That price is a deal on the central coast of California.

[@mooseknuckle_4474]

I said the same thing. In Ga that’s a steal.

[@chrisr6385]

For comparison...In Canada (Toronto area) it cost $150 USD per hour to rent a c172 without an instructor, and $225 USD per hour to rent a c172 including the cost of an instructor. So $180 USD per hour is a good price.

[@cocothecaptain]

$230/hour plus $65/hour for cfi $55/hour in hahaii so about $350/hour for schooling here

[@AviationWP]

Thank you, guys!

[@johnarriola7410]

Good details.

[@Traps_Trades]

Making my blue apron for dinner while gaining this knowledge.. 12 hours into my PPL! Thank you!

[@reyesben]

I love the Cherokee 180 Sean. We have a ‘72 model G

[@bikefreakstl]

I bought a high performance airplane mostly for travel but its also been great doing my ifr in it and soon enough will be doing my commercial in it as well. Its definitely not cheap but well worth the price of admission

[@garabato21]

I joined a 10 way ownership and it made it much more affordable to fly. With co-owner CFI, one can do a bulk of training at low cost and finish up at a nearby school, or checkride in your plane.

[@michaelbatshon122]

Where do you find a group of people to buy a plane or a share of a plane with? Is there a FB page or something?

[@garabato21]

@@michaelbatshon122 I got lucky and saw a printed ad at the airport FBO. One of those message boards where people post local ads for planes for sale, services, etc. I joined a second club that I found by searching AOPA club finder. I've seen others on pilot forums from time to time. One was a great experience the other, not so much. Good luck!

[@krazylyte]

I’m paying $90 in CA out in the boondocks. Great stuff

[@stang2nv95]

Good stuff. I'm training out of KHAO...which airport in cincy are you hangared?

[@ronjennings7533]

This is a very timely episode for me, as I'm in a similar position as Karl, though I'm a bit older at 52 years old. I'm planning to start my training this spring, and I'm considering buying a Cherokee, Tomahawk, Mooney M20, or similar. I'd planned to do s because I thought the rental rates at the school I'd chosen were crazy high, at $180-190/hour for a C172; however, when you guys started talking about the cost of fuel/hour I got curious, so I called them to ask about the rates. It turns out that's a "wet" rate, including fuel and oil. So with that it seems like their rates are actually pretty good! I do still want to own a plane at some point, but I feel a lot better about the cost to rent now, so I think I can wait a bit longer.

[@zappatx]

I'm like that guy who asked that question except although the weather is bad here, I'm so glad I live in South Dakota. Costs here are low so ownership and storage is low. On the bad side finding good mechanics who are not all booked up is tough.. My brother is a mechanic in Dallas at Southwest. I hope when he retires he moves up here as he could do real well!!!

[@thepenmen22]

Are you guys talking about KMWO that has the airplanes you can be part of the flying club, and someone has a plane who rents to the flight club there? Because I'm planning to move down there for work soon and start training there early next year. Took a discovery flight there last year. So far it sounds like a nice club, but wondering if that is the one you're talking about and whether you know anything else about it?

[@AmericanPiddler]

Couple things… at MGY City of Dayton T hangar rent is $175.00 and where is this place that will lease back our plane?

[@MrBharper1978]

In the process of buying one now. It’s been a roller coaster for sure trying to find the right one. Lot of time and money spent on pre buys/annuals. But it beats booking 2 hours of time and spending between 250-280 dollars only to get 1 hour of flying time because the first 30 minutes are spent doing pre flight checks and the last 30 are spent tying the plane back down and entering time in the log book etc.. it just seems to make a lot more sense to buy.

[@jeromes5141]

I was paying $135/hr or $150 between two airplanes before covid. Since then their prices went up. One had a prop strike recently and the owner said its not worth renting anymore with the cost of insurance. To me it made sense to get a plane, but since then I haven't been flying as much as I would want. I went to Oskosh this year and it's the 1st real long XC I've done since I got the plane. I started this business hoping that I could afford more time and pay the plane note easier but it's not the case. Winter is coming too in the North East so it's gonna be even tougher to fly. At the moment I need a transponder. Always something.

[@TheSchwartzIsWithYouToday]

I live in Phoenix, and Flight Instructors here might charge $150/hr for jets, but most schools report they charge $50-$75 / hr that I've seen on their websites. Also, pay for CFIs range from $22/hr to $30/hr and as high as $100k annually. Scottsdale and Sky Harbor are probably higher than Deer Valley, Glendale, and Falcon Field. I've got to say that, as a non-pilot, it has been quite amusing to drive by the Scottsdale airport during big events here, like the Super Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, certain concerts (Taylor Swift), and big auto auctions, where the NW side of the airport is lined with small jets and private aircraft. It's not a very big airport, but they do get a lot of jet traffic because ... hey ... it's Scottsdale. :) Maybe why their CFIs cost more. (You might not even be able to rent a C150/172 there. Cirrus has a flight training center there, and they only rent SR-22s, along with at least one other school, from what I've found so far.)

[@TheQuique14]

In Southern California a Cessna 172S is being rented roughly between $165-$190 an hour

[@craigsanders6925]

I fly out of an aero club in central CA and the rates are lower than most, they rent dry and with the cost of fuel I'm paying at least $160/hr. 172/piper archer might be 4 place but they don't really carry four normal sized people with full fuel. A decent ifr capable 172/Archer is going to be 100K these days. Hard to find a hangar around here and 300/month is probably the cheapest you can find.

[@professorlg8737]

A friend and I bought a 150 to get our commercial certs and build some time. We saved thousands of dollars.

[@mesflyer]

I did it. If $ is no issue, think is no brainer. If is issue, making a big gamble that no major repairs or ADs will pop. It's a bet that will either pay off big or sink you deep. Mine paid off, 30 yr old Cherokee got me 80ish hours for easy, no-sweart checkride, by the time hit 135 mins had mostly XC, night, IMC, actual coast to coast trips, and things I would have never been able to do in rentals. When multi time was hiring requirement, know a guy that bought old apache with fresh engines, flew it till engines ran out then sold it. Loss in price offset by hundreds hours multi in the book.

[@michaelsmith5463]

QUESTION: What is the best sequence to take the flight written exams to ensure passing the 1rst time?--How soon would you take the ATP written exam?

[@marklindsey1995]

I took 7 exams using Sheppard Air. I missed 1 question. In this order...IRA, FII, IGI, FIA, AGI, FOI, and CAX. It took 11 weeks.

[@mohamedbenabdallah5633]

Do you need to get an annual every 100 hours? I've been looking to purchase an FAA-certified experimental, can not be used for education. However my utility will be to bust through the 500 hours to go Part 135 asap and then re-sell.

[@reyesben]

I can attest to the partnership idea. It may not be easy to find your partner, but if you do, you can save big. Our operating cost is $70 per hour compared to $150 rental at the school. However, if our plane goes down for maintenance there is no flying unless you are able to still rent. You have to consider the possibility, if you’re on a tight training timeline, that you might be paying for your airplane payment, Maintenance, and still renting an aircraft if yours goes down for maintenance.

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

That’s a good point we should have mentioned that

[@abacojack13]

My flight school in PoDunk TN is charging $165 wet for a C172N so $180 is not off. CFI is $60 per hour

[@IGrocker]

I feel like I’ve been fortunate in my flight training. The PA28-151 I fly is $140/hour and my instructor is only $40/hour. The avionics have been updated to the small Garmin setup, I believe it’s the G5? Plus the Garmin radios as well, so the aircraft is not as outdated as it could be.

[@VictoryAviation]

@@IGrockerThat’s a pretty darned good deal.

[@ThePatterner]

I'm in PoDunk, OK and I can get a 172N for $160 wet and about $75/hr for CFI, so those sound not horrible to me either.

[@abacojack13]

where are you at? @@IGrocker

[@mooseknuckle_4474]

So it seems you gentleman haven’t looked into flight school rental costs in a while. Locally in Ga, l have about 5 options for flight training. Diamond DA20’s are the cheapest nearby. $140/hr wet Cessna 172’s(steam). $175/hr dry. Fuel additional Cessna 172’(G1000). $265/hr dry. Fuel additional. Piper 140’s(basic steam GNS430). $165/hr dry. $180/hr wet for a 172 in SoCal seems crazy low to me. Instruction here is anywhere from $50-95/hr. These are all flight school prices. There are a handful of Mom/Pops type places that are sloghtly cheaper but NOT MUCH.

[@chrisr6385]

For comparison...In Canada (Toronto area) it cost $150 USD per hour to rent a c172 without an instructor, and $225 USD per hour to rent a c172 including the cost of an instructor. So $180 USD per hour is a good price. I heard you need to log 300 hours per year to make owning an airplane make financial sense...else it makes more sense to rent an airplane.

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Thanks for the info

[@AmericanPiddler]

Bruh my basic T hangar at MGY is $175.00

[@skylane1829]

Get a 182 and make it a final bird. It’s a great bird too.

[@Teebuck27]

That’s exactly what I’m going to do

[@FlyWolffpv]

Is 35yrs old to late to from 0 to airline

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

No way! Check out the video am I too old to be a pilot?

[@matthewvisnaw4306]

DA40 NG

[@matthewvisnaw4306]

Make sure you can pass your 3rd Class Medical!

[@petekaragiannis1716]

You don’t “buy” an airplane. You buy an engine and avionics. The plane comes free

[@danielreuter2565]

Respectfully, you guys are not really in a position to speak on this and most of your advice is way off base for a follower in California. I love the rest of your stuff where you have expertise. You should have had an expert on.