7 Things You Should Know BEFORE Buying an Airplane!

[@geokeyes3447]

This guy makes his living selling time on his airplanes. HmmmK? I got my PPL by purchasing a C150, and it was far and away the best thing i did !! I highly recommend this. after getting signed off to solo, i flew everyday, and practiced every landing type... i passed my checkride with ease, then sold the plane for the same as i paid.

[@FreePilotTraining]

It is a lot easier to practice regularly when you get signed off to solo. The. You can work on things at your convenience.

[@curtisaitken7027]

Soooo I’m a bigger guy. (6ft 4 225). I am thinking because I’m not going to fit into a 150 with an instructor in buying before I took a lesson. I know what I want for my mission. (Cherokee Six 300). I’d like to buy something to redo the interior and learn on steam gauges then upgrade to glass when I do my instrument rating. Thoughts?

[@gnichopd]

So, why did you sell it?

[@Richard.Hybels]

@@curtisaitken7027 I’m 225 and went up with a guy that was 160 or so and it was tight. But if I get to the point I’m gonna buy my buddies 150 now that he has a 182. Just gonna follow his bread crumbs

[@aviatortrucker6285]

Told my wife if we win the lottery I’ll buy a plane. Then when she wins the lottery we could cover the cost to own and maintain it.

[@FreePilotTraining]

😂 so true

[@cyberfiche]

😂

[@Fkujoeb123]

Oh come on. It’s not that expensive. Stop eating out, buying coffee at a starfux and $1300 I phones. A $1000 a month to be able to fly everyday is NOT expensive. Hanger here is cheap. figure in $500 for maintenance and inspections down the road. 35-50k plane. It’s cheap for being able to go anywhere you want. Might take you a while at 95-130mph but you will get there eventually 😂😂😂 Best thing ever

[@deca10]

This makes owning a plane again with current market/costs seem like a financial and logistic headache for recreational use. I owned a 182P with two partners during the six years pre-pandemic - I now understand how great a deal I had back then.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Yeah. COVID made an impossible dream even harder.

[@Richard.Hybels]

A ton of good info here especially about hangers

[@FreePilotTraining]

So glad you found this valuable

[@erincasey1544]

I appreciate you all SO MUCH. This is such a helpful video for those of us who are so overwhelmed by aviation. You do such a great job of making it digestible!

[@FreePilotTraining]

You’re welcome! Thanks for joining the community!

[@JB_Hobbies]

Fantastic content. Looking forward to the ADs episode.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you so much! You can watch that video right here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aHy8Xppue7Sqmpo

[@JB_Hobbies]

@@FreePilotTraining Excellent. Thank you!!

[@snowman100]

This is awesome and eye opening guys. Great discussion!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you so much!

[@AllenPortman-n1d]

I don't fly any longer but starting to experiment with some sim flying. Great video cast covered some great information that I can vouch is 100 percent spot on!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you so much Allen!

[@robgoffroad]

Great video! I'm buying my first plane and haven't finalized the sale yet, so I was eager to see this. Thankfully I've done all the recommended things. The log books are all there, all the ADs are complete, and the pre-buy came back with a few things... and the seller has agreed to take care of them without me even asking. They're also going to do a fresh annual even though it's good til October. It's an aviation maintenance shop so I imagine they want to keep their reputation intact.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you! Sounds like you found someone fair to deal with. That sometimes hard to find

[@piperarrowpilot9325]

When I purchased the piper arrow we agreed to take the plane within 100 nautical miles to the airport of our choosing to have the pre-buy done. The broker that was selling the plane actually helped us negotiate this. I do not think it is that uncommon to fly a plane within 100 nautical miles or so to the destination you wish do the pre-bye if you have money in escrow and a pre-purchase agreement signed stating that if the pre-buy is successful, you will immediately purchase the aircraft or pay to have it ferried back to the seller. We also negotiated that because the seller claims that the aircraft was 100% airworthy at the time of sale that the seller would cover any airworthiness items discovered during the pre buy. This one is controversial but in my opinion, if the seller is claiming 100% that there is nothing wrong with the airplane and it is within annual and airworthy then they should be willing to back that claim up. I’ve heard horror stories of people buying an airplane that just had a “fresh annual” and getting it back and it being a disaster and barely airworthy and now they’re stuck with this airplane.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks for your comment! Even if I had been taking really good care of an airplane, there’s always the chance that there could be something that needs attention. He obviously had a lot of confidence in his plane. I wish everyone was like that.

[@Mike_PSU_MSW]

There are some real advantages to going through a broker like you did. Obviously they rep the seller but most brokers wont list a questionable plane in the first place. You are less likely to get a low price but more likely to have fewer surprises. My number one priority was finding a plane that had been regularly flown - that checks so many boxes.

[@paladain55]

this is a good point. Do you have an example of your contract for purchase you could share?

[@randaltotten7031]

Awesome points these guys are making! The local aircraft owner who is also an Aircraft Inspector told me "If you do not fly more than 100 hours per year, your best bet is to rent". That advice plus these videos will have me as a renter until I can prove to myself that I'll fly more than 100 hours per year. Still waiting for my PPL checkride, had to reschedule a couple of times for weather reasons. Great advice you two!!!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Mike-iy7bk]

Very informative thank you, keep it up.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks!

[@marcclarke8864]

I only now watched this video and it's so informative. Almost sorry to see it end as it only seem to scratch the surface of more that just aircraft purchase knowledge. I will search for any follow-ups. Great vid. (Barbados)

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you so much! We made this video before that one, and it also has quite a bit of information: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXLRaWCnm95sj9U

[@jorgeetrevino6790]

Excellent video. How true is it that rotax engines (912) aren’t as prone to corrosion than a GA engine, say a lycoming or contnentsl engine?

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you! I’ve heard that. I’m not sure how true it is, but they’re supposed to be great engines.

[@arturocarrion8771]

Awesome info. Thnx

[@FreePilotTraining]

You’re welcome!

[@rolandos64]

Your explanation of how a sitting engine dies is well said!!! 100% accurate

[@namnyaklogistics8365]

I respect this channel

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks!

[@cyberfiche]

Great conversation! Thanks for all the info. A lot of this I've never heard!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Awesome! Thanks John!

[@ICONICGARAGEDOOR]

Good info, I now know that I will never want to buy a plane. I WAS thinking about buying a Cessna 15 0 and now I am having serious second thoughts.

[@FreePilotTraining]

That’s not really why I made this video, but you should definitely just be prepared for all this stuff

[@EchoKilo]

I’ve learned so much from this video. Thank you both.

[@FreePilotTraining]

You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!

[@frankw8ite]

love the video . how do we tell if its rnav ?

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks! That all has to do with the GPS in the airplane. It must have a way to monitor the performance of the satellites. Either with WAAS or RAIM or both

[@ABQSentinel]

1:42 I think the counter-point to that suggestion is, when was the last time you did a run-up on your car? There isn't a minimum required equipment list for a car. You don't hop in and think, "Well the fuel gauge isn't working, so I can't drive it." That just doesn't happen. There are no shortage of people driving cars that are in such a state of disrepair that the wheels are practically falling off. Conversely, the average age of a GA aircraft is 30 years! How many 30 year old cars are even running, let alone 40+ years? So I disagree, I think GA aircraft are amazingly reliable when you take all of that into consideration.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Yes. I actually agree with this comment. In many ways, airplanes are more reliable. Yes, the aircraft are older, but the designs are more simple so there are fewer points of failure. But, I think the point he was trying to make was that just because the engine is running smoothly, that still doesn’t make it safe to fly. There are a lot of systems that need to be operable in order to fly safely. Any one system failure can create its own hazard. If your speedometer goes out in your car, it’s not a huge deal, but people have died because they lost their airspeed indicator and they weren’t really trained well enough to deal with the situation. Thank you for the comment

[@seanmoody3381]

A leakdown teast will test the heads and valves a compression test will test the puston rings in a way

[@mathieusan]

would you know a source that had a comparative table of many common engines with overhaul cost estimates? (ideally from the same shop, for an apple-to-apple comparison). Could be useful to know this major cost expectation when looking at a particular airplane.

[@FreePilotTraining]

If you Google search an engine model and engine overhaul, many companies have a price list on their website.

[@ericthomas8147]

On the topic of logbooks, if they are missing, is there some regulation involved? Is there some additional steps needed for the FAA to consider the plane airworthy?

[@FreePilotTraining]

Nope, legally you’re required to have them, but if there’s one missing then there is nothing legally wrong with that. The plane is less valuable without it, but there are some ways to rebuild parts of the logbooks

[@johnpatrick1588]

First, decide why you are really buying a plane. Then really figure out how much flying you are going to do. Owning may not be logical since there are ownership costs involved.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Exactly. We discussed that a little bit in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXLRaWCnm95sj9U

[@BonaFideDiva]

This was such a great, informative episode. I am considering purchasing and this is spot on, learned a lot!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@AaronHuffmanPerson]

What an amazing wealth of information! Personally, I plan on purchasing a plane to train and build hours on in a few years. I'm spending the leading time up to resuming training doing all the research and saving as I can.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you! Yes, that’s an excellent option

[@stevespessard2306]

Are u guys saying the engine usually must replaced or just completely overhauled at 2000 hours. You seemed to use both of those terms when discussing the longevity issue. Thx!

[@FreePilotTraining]

You can do either.

[@zxr92]

Another hangar problem first is getting a hangar without an airplane. Most airports won't even let you in without a fully registered plane first! ☹️

[@FreePilotTraining]

I haven’t seen that one yet. Sounds like a bit of a chicken and egg scenario

[@zxr92]

@@FreePilotTraining exactly! So we'll see how my negotiation skills will be when it comes time. 😆

[@thomaslembessis6803]

The FAA does not allow for the storage of anything in a hangar (no cars, for example) if the airport receives federal funding. That could be why they want you to have a plane before they’ll rent a hangar

[@randyfiles9980]

Thanks! This is beyond helpful!!!

[@FreePilotTraining]

You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!

[@steelers4srilanka]

Solid content 💥

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks Gregg!

[@theghastlygamer5326]

May i ask what state yall are in?

[@FreePilotTraining]

Seth is in Arkansas. That’s where this video was made. I just moved up to Alaska a couple months ago

[@theghastlygamer5326]

@@FreePilotTraining oh ok. I heard him say Russellville is why i was wondering because i live in the area.

[@BlueMax333]

sound advice!

[@tonybeam]

Light aircraft: as a rule of thumb one must deduct $3000.00 from the purchase price for each whole month that it has not flown.

[@FreePilotTraining]

That’s good to know! Thanks for this!

[@calvinlivengood5717]

So most project planes for free?

[@FreePilotTraining]

😂

[@tonybeam]

@@calvinlivengood5717 Pretty well yes. Ask me, been there and paid the price. My Cirrus was regularly flown and not a single engine problem. My Seneca III was not regularly flown by the previous owners and was a nightmare.

[@dragbikedemon]

Does this apply to far103?

[@FreePilotTraining]

To be honest, I’m not 100% sure. I’d have to do some research

[@richardmauch1042]

Well that made me sick to my stomach. I’ve been pretty excited about getting my ppl and buying a c170b for outback trips and camping. I now feel like quitting and giving up my dream. It doesn’t feel it in arms length for me much anymore. 😢

[@FreePilotTraining]

Don’t let it kill your dream. I made this video to give you something to consider. There are lots of options to be able to get your own plane. Consider going in on a plane with someone else like I did. You could also buy a cheaper plane like a Cessna 150 and get some experience on owning first. Im wanting to buy another plane, but to be honest, I can’t actually afford the one I want to I’m going to get a Cessna 140 for now until I can afford that Cessna 180 I really want. There’s always the experimental route as well, which is WAY cheaper as you can do a lot more work yourself and all the stuff on them is WAY cheaper cuz it doesn’t have to be certified. But don’t give up on that dream. A lot of campers out there like the kitfox airplanes. I’ve looked at them myself. They seem like a great option

[@richardmauch1042]

@@FreePilotTraining my problem with experimental air crafts is the hidden cost. I’ve looked at the stol kits and the kitfox kits. I’m a mechanic and fabricator/welder by trade so I don’t make much. I’ve definitely looked at 140,150,170. There within budget, I just fear for the expensive stuff that I’m not aloud to fix myself do to regulations. I want a stol style plane and I thought one of the Cessnas was the way to go. I wish there was a poor man’s video on plain ownership. Lol

[@FreePilotTraining]

@@richardmauch1042 another option is to go find an A&P mechanic on your local airport and talk to them. You could work as a apprentice for them and trade some labor for experience. If you do it long enough, you could potentially do most of the maintenance yourself. It seems like this may be a good option for you. If you get into an apprenticeship program with an A&P, they may allow you to work on your own plane and inspect your work once it’s done.

[@richardmauch1042]

@@FreePilotTraining I thought I could do most maintenance myself anyways as long as it’s not engine or wing related/controls. I might have to research the apprentice thing though. Thanks

[@FreePilotTraining]

@@richardmauch1042 you can do quite a bit yourself, but it can definitely be beneficial to start working with an A&P. I have considered doing it myself and getting certified

[@paulwilson7622]

Exoerience tells me that generally, working aircraft are more reliable than aircraft that have sat, for months, without working.

[@EveryDayAboveGround]

Blue River FTW!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Lol, I’ve used them

[@foodNtravel87]

I have spotted Buc-ee’s fan! 😅

[@FreePilotTraining]

Absolutely! 😆

[@excellenceinanimation960]

Its kinda absurd how complicated this is!

[@FreePilotTraining]

I actually agree with you. It’s way harder than it needs to be

[@excellenceinanimation960]

@@FreePilotTraining I’m looking at planes all day but it’s crazy how expensive a rag covered 1940s aircraft is. The darn thing barely keeps up with a car and still is over a years salary. It’s just kind of impossible! Not to mention just keeping it flying is like 10 grand a year at least a 4th my salary.

[@excellenceinanimation960]

@@FreePilotTraining Anyhow, great video Thank you for doing this for all of us!

[@bg1788]

I followed all of these recommendations and still got a little bit of a turd. The owner would not let us fly the plane as part of the pre-buy inspection. Maybe this should have been a no go from the start. What I did not understand was that when the pre-buy came back saying "It looks great from 10 ft away but up close there are a lot of imperfections in the paint." means they prettied it up for sale. The other thing I did not take into consideration and the pre-buy did not specify, the plane sat largely for unused for 2+ years. It got flown an hour or two once a year but that was it. The first oil change and every change after revealed a very high amount of carbon. The engine was at TBO and I understood the implications of that. I might have put too much faith in running past TBO for this plane. Recently another pilot had a prop strike in the plane and I sent the engine out for overhaul. The crank and all connecting rods had to be scrapped for corrosion. At this point it might have been less expensive to buy a new engine. And fortunately the prop strike forced the rebuild sooner than I would have otherwise as all oil tests were showing only minimal wear on the main bearings. My suggestion. Get A LOT of advise and make certain the person doing the pre-buy inspection is qualified. I did not fall in love with the plane, but I did fall in love with the price.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Sorry to hear that. There’s some good words of wisdom in here. I wouldn’t buy a plane unless I could fly it first, and even with a pre-buy, I’d look over the logbooks. I’d get a pre-buy from a third party and not from someone on the field. Often the seller and the A&P are best buds. I’ve seen that before but thankfully I didn’t get bit too bad on my purchase

[@petrairene]

Interesting. And by the way, why is it that airplane motors and tech is not as reliable as a car? What's the reason they can't build smaller simpler type planes that are as reliable as your car is?

[@FreePilotTraining]

I believe the reason is because every single item on a certified aircraft must be certified before it can be used. That process takes time. That’s why it took so long for aviation GPS technology to catch up with the capabilities we see on the ground. There are newer engines out there that are more reliable, but they come at a premium price because of that certification process

[@petrairene]

@@FreePilotTraining I see. So buying a plane with one of these newer type engines might long term save you maintenance costs, even if that old engine is in top condition? Are these new engines getting more complex? Like with older types of cars a hobbyist with a bit of talent is able to do many repairs, something that is not possible with a modern built car. Are there types of engines that are more readily sustained DIY than others, if you are a bit of a hobby mechanic?

[@johnopalko5223]

@@petrairene In general, unless you're a certificated powerplant mechanic, you won't be able to do anything with the engine beyond changing the oil and filter, and replacing, cleaning, and regapping the spark plugs. You can also replace prefabricated fuel lines and any hose connections except for hydraulic connections. See 14 CFR Part 43 Appendix A(c) for the list of work a pilot-owner is allowed to do.

[@FreePilotTraining]

@@petrairene yes, an example of this is the 0-320 Lycoming engine which has a time to overhaul of 2,000 hours vs the older Continental 0-300s which have a time to overhaul of about 1,800 hours. Doesn’t seem like a lot, but if you do the math, the newer engine is worth having

[@JoshuaTootell]

These engines are used at a higher load, way more often, for much longer, with less accurate cooling systems Imagine buying a car, with an air cooled engines, then running it at full throttle for 15 straight minutes. Then once you get there, you decide you're in a hurry so you run near full throttle for 3 straight hours. Then you do that every time you drive that car. It's going to take a toll.

[@DavidBerquist334]

Isn't the life expectancy of an airplane about 25 to 30 years The engines are they leased quite often rather than with the airplane when you buy the plane

[@FreePilotTraining]

Nope. There are a ton of airplanes more than 80 years old flying around

[@DavidBerquist334]

@@FreePilotTraining the 707 came out in 1956 and they stopped Flying them they're even phasing out the md 80s

[@DavidBerquist334]

@@FreePilotTraining I thought that the airworthy certificate expires after so many cycles

[@FreePilotTraining]

Once you have an airworthy certificate, it doesn’t expire. When new aircraft are built, they must meet certain Airworthiness requirements, so if those change, then an aircraft design may need to be changed in order to be certified. I was talking to a Cessna engineer about a month ago and he was saying that Cessna would not be able to get the 152 certified under today’s standards. Not sure if that’s true, but it’s very interesting

[@DavidBerquist334]

@@FreePilotTraining I thought there is a limit on the airframe number of cycles take offs and landings

[@flyalaska2021]

Don't ask the seller to recommend a pre buy inspector! Ask others in the area or get a list from the Fisdo.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Great tip.

[@rolandos64]

No one in the USA owns land. We lease land hence Property Tax!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Unfortunately…

[@The_real_Dr_mysterious]

Oh but you do have to federally register your car it's called the BMV license plate

[@FreePilotTraining]

Never heard of that

[@bradleys2320]

that's State, not Federal.

[@ben_mac8670]

@@FreePilotTraining NCT in Ireland, 'federal mandate maintenance' every year make sure your car is road worthy...otherwise your not insured to drive.

[@ericbailey9549]

Has anyone here heard of a "hanger annual"? I've known guys that get a sign off on an annual by sending a picture of them flying to the AI.

[@FreePilotTraining]

I’ve never heard of this. Hopefully someone here will know the answer. I’m curious

[@rolandos64]

In 50 years they may bill you for the removal of the hanger just like mobile parks

[@FreePilotTraining]

I could see that

[@flyalaska2021]

When your car engine dies you coast off the road. When your plane engine dies your in big trouble.

[@cjstudios5170]

"Planes aren't as reliable as cars?" says the guys who show a Jag. This is coming from a "former" X-Type owner.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Lol. I just grabbed some free b-roll online. I don’t know much about Jaguars. They must not be reliable? 😂 of course

[@cjstudios5170]

@@FreePilotTraining That would be a NEGATIVE Ghost Rider!

[@FreePilotTraining]

@@cjstudios5170 😂

[@alk672]

It is absolutely not the case that a Cessna 172 is less reliable than a car because it has so many complicated systems in it. Quite the contrary, it has very few systems, and all of them are very simple. The only reason you are ever able to fly it is because they are simple. The reason it's unreliable is because it's very old - both in design and in age. Your car's engine has a computer governing fuel injection, mixture, ignition, and pretty much every other aspect of engine's function. It's just that it's a new design using new ideas and new materials, so it's very reliable. Let's not get it twisted. FAA's certification requirements that are supposed to make airplanes reliable and safe have stifled innovation to a point where light singles are so much more expensive and less reliable that it's been an obvious safety hazard for a while.

[@FreePilotTraining]

I actually agree with you, but the point he was trying to make is that if the airspeed indicator goes out, you can’t fly. That is something that isn’t really the case in a car

[@dman0044]

Worldwide Steel Buildings. They have hangars.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Good to know. Thanks

[@tomb8430]

I'll go out on a limb here and say the first thing you should know before buying a plane is know how to fly!

[@FreePilotTraining]

😂 I know lots of people who haven’t

[@kk6aw]

All 7 are EXPENSIVE

[@FreePilotTraining]

Yes, they are. That’s why you want to know about them before you buy lol

[@JonnyFlash80]

This makes me never want to buy an airplane. I don't need that stress in my life.

[@FreePilotTraining]

It wasn’t really made to convince people not to buy, but it’s definitely smart to think about these thing first

[@susansticazsky9787]

… 20 hours to install avionics well 80 hours. Just that tells you a lot. How do we know how many hours are truly needed by an expert mechanic to do the job?!

[@SethLakeDPE]

Yeah, sorry about that. I shouldn't have spoken off the cuff. To answer your question, always get at least two quotes for installation, unless you have an established relationship with the avionics shop.

[@leviathan7477]

Much more like buying a house than buying a car 😅

[@FreePilotTraining]

Lol. So true

[@theinternaut1991]

Uh your car is federally registered? Lmao

[@FreePilotTraining]

Lol. No. It’s not. But I bet the federal government can easily access any registration information

[@theinternaut1991]

@@FreePilotTraining oh okay thanks for explaining m8

[@theinternaut1991]

@@FreePilotTraining I'm ussually the guy yelling people to do the research before saying something stupid lol and here I am, bein over confident lol

[@dwaynewilson6310]

Way too long of a video. Could be several videos

[@FreePilotTraining]

I really appreciate the feedback

[@jeremiahbond2810]

Rewired ~ 18 F-16 cockpits in a year. Thats heavy avionics wiring and thats a solo project for both the bays and the cockpit. I cant imagine these other planes have an electrical system of an F-16. But who knows. Thats at 40 hrs a week. Certainly did not get paid private business wages.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Yeah, it’s a tremendous amount of work. That’s probably why it’s so expensive