"Prostitution and Ways of Fighting It" (1921) by Alexandra Kollontai. Marxist Audiobook/Discussion.

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Link to original: www.marxists.org/archive/koll...
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[@JohnT.4321]

I find it strange that a housewife would be considered as a labor deserter. I base this on that women who do housework is actual work. Taking care of the young children, cleaning and painting and yardwork is work. Helping to raise the children does constitute helping society. It took both the man and the woman to make children so it is actually a dual responsibility of both in raising them as best they can. I can see the economic situation of prostitution. The material conditions under the present system causes it to be so. Capitalism does a lot of damage to the relationships between men and women. We now see both men and women in the workplace and the children in daycare centers. Some which have proved hostile to the child. So it will take time and patience under socialism for healing to take place. Like she said in her article that the USSR was a long way from communism. How they addressed some issues were controversial and I know we can do better.

[@SocialismForAll]

I agree; we're still trying to find good answers to many of these questions today, though there has been a lot of progress thanks largely to Marxists making these attempts and trying different things.

[@lirard]

"responsibility of both in raising them AS BEST THEY CAN." - the part of your phrase singled out in capital letters, is the key. In backward societies such as that of Russia at the time, the socialist state could not afford to leave child care to the existing parenting in the families . Considering factors such as compounded family households, old regressive behavioral customs, some to the point where even making children attending school was a revolution on its own, as majority of families were used to expect their children become bread provider along with the parents, early on. And so on. Situation with housewives was easier the more developed society was, for instance that of post WWII East Germany. There the women massively integrated in the workforce (which with the end of WWII was the case for both Germanies - proof of development of German society in general). That being said, the issue the Socialist state has with the housework is not about the value rather than its distribution in family, not only from wife to husband but every single member of household, as suitable to their age. Again this struggle become easier for the Party and the communists to handle the more developed a society is/becomes. What's more, even the socialist state is expected to contribute into easing of the housework burden. Not only as far as child care (school education with dedicated subjects on civics, personal hygiene & care/cooking etc.), full time Day care and nursery, but also matters such as introducing house appliances (against physical work and time-consumption), equipping workplaces with worker eateries, showers, etc. That meant distributing work away from the woman of the house, to free her in order for her not only participate in productive labor for society, but also in the self emancipation journey and of the society at large. Therefore she does not remain an passive and distanced onlooker but an active conscious element of the socialist collective. I 'read"/heard this audiobook today btw & thank you greatly to S4A.

[@georgekostaras]

Highly relevant given the recent mess with only fans

[@manicallydepressedclown8064]

Kollontai is my personal hero. many female socialist leaders are kind of overshadowed by people like Lenin Stalin and Mao. Rosa, Kollontai, Celia Sanchez, The Female fighters of Sendero Luminoso, the NPA, Sandinistas, and Nepal dont really get the recognition they deserve and that makes me kind of sad

[@SocialismForAll]

Yeah I really got into this one and plan to do many more from her. Impressive.

[@hibye7385]

Rosa Luxemburg is probably the most well known female socialist writer. Her work is extraordinary.

[@simonmacconmidhe9489]

Nadezhda Krupskaya's contributions are often overlooked too, as she is often subordinated to being thought of as simply 'Lenin's wife', I've found, too.

[@jtruque]

Great timing! Thanks for your work! 👍

[@danishaffer2673]

Kollontai is very clever this is a great refutation of prostitution I like that it doesn’t approach the subject from the point of view of religious morality.

[@doit3409]

Thank you

[@zacoolm]

Thank you S4A!

[@simonmacconmidhe9489]

Very good selection, useful too.

[@thechekist2044]

A lot of radlibs today would've called Kollontai a reactionary for her anti prostitution stance: "To us in the workers’ republic it is not important whether a woman sells herself to one man or to many, whether she is classed as a professional prostitute selling her favours to a succession of clients or as a wife selling herself to her husband. All women who avoid work and do not take part in production or in caring for children are liable, on the same basis as prostitutes, to be forced to work. We cannot make a difference between a prostitute and a lawful wife kept by her husband, whoever her husband is - even if he is a “commissar”. It is failure to take part in productive work that is the common thread connecting all labour deserters. The workers’ collective condemns the prostitute not because she gives her body to many men but because, like the legal wife who stays at home, she does no useful work for the society."

[@hibye7385]

Where is that passage from?

[@thechekist2044]

@@hibye7385 it's from the same speech in this video.

[@SocialismForAll]

Yeah, I genuinely believe what I said in the rather longish into section, but I did specifically target it to be explanatory toward people coming from more of that radlib sphere, to try to ease them into this somewhat different POV.

[@hibye7385]

Found the timestamp. 25:12 for anyone interested.

[@tylergriffin3667]

Yeah, my issue is that last bit "useful work" basic Marxism: it must have a use to have value. Since prostitution clearly has value; it must, by definition, be useful work.

[@vicm5272]

So progressive. Thanks for this. To think that the bourgeoisie world hate these ideas!!

[@megathai]

I always wondered the Marxist-Leninist position on erotic art, I see many ML governments ban porn from a cultural perspective like to weed out “degeneracy”.

[@SocialismForAll]

Yeah I can't speak to all of that, not sure how it varies from one place to the next in detail. Notions of "degeneracy" to me are not something I would consider socialist, but again I'm not well-versed in this piece of history.

[@SocialismForAll]

@@foxinthesnow1917 Yes, but not all erotic art entails objectification or is unhealthy.

[@zacoolm]

Communism, nothing but the pure science of collective production and reproduction! Nothing but total respect for the human within in the collective.

[@phrajilman]

SCRATCH MY LAST REQUEST, YOU GOTTA DO VALUE, PRICE, AND PROFIT

[@SocialismForAll]

It's definitely on the list, but I have more long ones to do first

[@roa3432]

Are you still working on the origins of the family?

[@SocialismForAll]

It's been pushed back, but yes, it's an important work.

[@nauticalnovice9244]

It somewhat pains me to see people in support of prostitution. I understand that under capitalism things can get difficult financially so people have to resort to it, I can tolerate that. But when people have to ability to have a good paying job which they enjoy, whether under capitalism or socialism, then I am strongly against prostitution. Prostitution is the "worker" making money off of a natural, biological activity that humans have been doing since we came on the scene. I don't see why somebody should make money off of something that is so natural such as sex!

[@SocialismForAll]

"I don't see why somebody should make money off of something that is so natural such as sex!" Now replace "sex" with "medicine," "food," or "shelter," and you'll see that this isn't so uniquely weird

[@nauticalnovice9244]

@@SocialismForAll yep

[@magicdaveable]

Over the years, I have known several "sex workers" that actually enjoyed their "profession." They didn't "charge me" because I never expected sex from any of them. All of them really enjoyed going on day long rides on my motorcycle. Visiting cool locations throughout California. Often they paid for everything from gasoline to food to lodging on a two day trip. Very nice intelligent women that controlled their lives and made an excellent living. I had no qialms about them servicing their clients. They were very careful about safe sex.

[@vannajs5024]

Well most of them I think they do,in USA,at least,otherwise most of them, wouldn't do it in the first place.Some of them are made to do it ,by gangs or under some other circumstances,I can't judge for a large potion of them,of course..But since in US,at times when we are out of Economical crisis , it's not hard to get a basic,minimal wage job, especially for young women's seem to be a lot of opportunities.What other reason some of them ,could possible have to sell their bodies,and get themselves involved in a risky lifestyle, rather than,their personal enjoyment,But again that certainly raise question ,about their mental health and moral credibility,By Marxism,they are considered as lumpen proleteriat.All those tattooed hippie's, prostitute's,"modern alternative artists", together with all sorts of criminal's,gang members and such,were consider ,as negative elements, Lumpen, Examples of western decadence, in a socialist countries.