Protestantism & Evangelicalism Refuted - Orthodox Theology - Jay Dyer (Half)

[@JayDyer]

Be sure to like, share, comment and subscribe!

[@rprestarri]

Hey Jay, I would like to have an informal debate with you. I’m a Reformed Presbyterian, currently in a transitional phase, and I’ve found your video very helpful to really see the hinges of this Sola Scriptura debate. I have no doubt that you know a copious amounts more than me in all areas of this topic, but, I’d like, if you were willing, to kind of sit down and barrage you with some questions, back and forward if you like. Anyways, I’ll doubt you find this message, but if you do, tell me where I can find you to get into correspondence. All in all, have a good day.

[@Fr.DeaconPatrick]

Everything Jay is teaching, is 100% correct. I started out as a King James only goofball babist and upon studying the ancient Church and the Church Father's came to the same exact conclusion as Jay because it's pure Truth! If your completely honest you will understand and have no other option than to convert to Orthodoxy. The history of the Church is very easy to study, don't let ignorance or stubbornness hold you back.

[@777Justin]

In the age of information, remaining a Protestant let alone a Papist is just laziness.

[@Προκείμενον]

Professors of Church history who keep being heterodox is strange as well. What are they teaching?...

[@FTWbiology]

Similar story with me, born nominally protestant, became a pagan heathen in my late teens/early 20s, became convinced of Christianity in my mid 20s, was Lutheran for about a year, studied the early church and now I'm a catechumen in the Russian church. Any serious look into church history will lead you to either Orthodoxy or Roman Catholicism, and I hope and pray that people in that situation see the Light of the east and become Orthodox.

[@TheRealRealOK]

Blake B Lmao, a pagan heathen. At least you’re honest about where you came from.

[@destynationqz7273]

I am a former Protestant also but I would suggest to all of you brothers to avoid Eastern Orthodoxy and opt for Catholicism. Because Orthodoxy is just another form of protestation, Eastern Orthodoxy has no power of infallibility to distinguish itself from the incessant theorizing of Evangelicals on theological matters, *and I will explain why.* Ultimately this means Eastern Orthodoxy by definition cannot be the pre-schism Church, only Catholicism. You can go to OrthodoxWiki to learn about ecumenical councils in general, and they will tell you straight up that the Orthodox model of ecumenicity/infallibility was put forth to protest the Catholic model, it is a protestation not a stand alone by its own merits, it is a protestantism. And the article will go on to say that all the Orthodox models that have been proposed have failed according to their own theologians and must be replaced urgently, but by what they do not know, which is priceless. They tapped out, 1000 years still nothing. They do not know what makes a council ecumenical or infallible, they are Protestants with Bible and Church Fathers alone, that's it. *Think about it guys, listen to the reasoning here.* It's as if you had a Protestant admitting that Sola Scriptura wasn't operational before the compilation of a universally accepted canon, gaping hole in the ground. The Orthodox is admitting conciliarism, the belief that ecumenicity/infallibility depends on the council as opposed to the Pope at the council, isn't operational post-schism, and therefore cannot have been operational ever since it's a fallacy. Protestant fail before, Orthodox fail after. The pre-schism Church cannot be the Eastern Orthodox Church for the same reason Protestantism cannot be the pre-Constantine Church, it is an invention. This is fantastic, and then we are being accused by Russia for apparently sending Jesuit undercover agents to make most Orthodox believe the first 7 ecumenical councils are the only valid ones they got when they admit they don't even know what makes councils ecumenical. You cannot make this up. And I know Jay Dyer has his own little propaganda video about why Constantinople should stop sympathizing with Rome in an effort towards unity. *My brothers, here is an extract :* Receptionism was formed *primarily* in opposition to Roman Catholic viewpoints on the same question. For the Roman Catholic Church, a council's ecumenicity is primarily determined by its ratification by the Pope of Rome. Orthodoxy does not have the same ecclesiological structure as Rome, however, and so Khomiakov and others attempted to formulate another model by which the infallibility of Ecumenical Councils may be determined. ... At the current time, the episcopacy of the Church *has not as yet put forward a universal definition as to what precisely lends a council its ecumenicity(KO).* What is generally held is that councils may be regarded as ecumenical and infallible because they accurately teach the truth handed down in tradition from the Church Fathers. orthodoxwiki.org/Ecumenical_Councils

[@ontologicallysteve7765]

I've liked and unliked this video 3 or 4 times. It's the only way I can like it more than once. I watched this the day you streamed it, and I've revisited it several times since. This talk should be put in text form, edited, expanded, polished and printed as a book. There's *such* a need for material like this in Orthodoxy. There's a deficit in material that assists Protestants who are either curious or considering or just coming into Orthodoxy. Jay, you're a blessing. I know I've said that many times, but it's true. I'm a Russian Orthodox convert now. If not for my conspiratorial appetite leading me to your videos (which inadvertently introduced me to Orthodoxy): I may very well *not* be Orthodox today. Orthodoxy has not only changed *my* life (after 20 years in Protestantism); but it has changed the life of my wife and 4 kids. I'll be forever grateful, my friend.

[@CoranceLChandler]

or you could have simply made a few extra accounts, that's the way I do it¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@LeonSKennedy7777]

Lucky! I was enjoying fish fry feast of st. booze during the livestream, but thankfully we have replay.

[@Toledo_Doodee]

Amen!

[@RollOut82]

Wow. Incredible how incidental your stumbling into orthodoxy was as has how significant Jay was in that role. I must say, I am currently STRONGLY ortho-curious (I know more about church history/theology than many ortho's I know around me at this point). But I can say Jay Dyer (and Jonathan Pageau) have been 2 of the most influential sources/figures in my life the last 2 years in shaping my whole worldview & understanding of my own existence. So I also blame Jay, in a large part, for changing my life pretty dramatically... I have yet to decide if it's a totally positive/desirable change (but I suspect so... I have mixed feelings at the moment lol)

[@RollOut82]

@@anonanon8421 so help me to understand: when did the apostolic age end?

[@jamiefroese6902]

Loved this talk Jay! My Dad, grandfather, and great grandfather were all Protestant ministers. As a teenager I asked my Dad how we got the Bible he gave me a book from his study to read. I had all the same questions you raised and he could not answer. That started my long road to orthodoxy. Thanks for all you do Jay. God Bless!

[@driftless7134]

This talk gave me a lot to think about. I'm going to have to listen a few more times and delve into the readings. I was raised in evangelical chaos (Churchianity mostly) and thankfully made it out without becoming an atheist or liberal weirdo. I've been Confessional Lutheran for 3 years and have been so grateful that God opened my eyes and enlightened me with Scripture, liturgy, Baptism, and Christ's body and blood. I have never been more at peace. BUT... this video shook me and made me deeply question some things about Protestantism. I have no choice: my Orthodox study Bible arrives on Monday. Thanks Jay for putting out such great content and giving me so much to learn and delve into. I'm looking forward to the prayer, Bible study, and contemplation. God bless you and your work!

[@illestdish]

I don't know much about different bibles but I love the orthodox study bible.

[@zarnoffa]

Good to soak some values from Orthodoxy, but the Gospel is very obscured compared to Lutheranism where it’s clear as day. Orthodoxy will make you appreciate some of the older hymns you find and the liturgy. But... you’ll hear a lot of shocking language of things like prayers to Mary calling her “our only hope” and other things that aren’t even close to what you read in Paul’s writings. Take care.

[@TheMhouk2]

@@zarnoffa because st paul's writings were pastoral epistles about specific issues, mostly to do with the judaizing heresy, stop implying that anything the holy scriptures dont cover/prescribe are somehow irrelevent or blasphemous, your view of scripture was cooked up by 17th century congregationalists

[@zarnoffa]

@@TheMhouk2 St. Paul was not a good Catholic since he neglected to mention the name of Mary even once. You should stop treating Holy Scripture like mere rabbinic commentary. Paul wrote hours’ and hours’ worth of sermons with the highest authority. His letters/books were meant to be read in church... and he knew they’d be read even after his death... but he never mentions Mary’s name once. That’s not much devotion to Mary.

[@TheMhouk2]

St paul wrote those letters (he didnt write sermons, he preached as per Acts) to specific churches about their pastoral issues, we in the one holy catholic and apostolic orthodox church treat scripture very seriously, in fact we canonized it - it's read in every liturgy! You people take the holy scriptures out of context by insisting that a silence in the scriptures is somehow damning upon mariology - when in the new testament, apart from the gospels, all the holy scriptures deal with specific issues. You know why? because a bulk of apostolic teaching was oral, this follows the pre existing pattern within faithful jewish tradition that there was both an authoritative oral tradition, parallel to a written one, right back to Moses. Plus it doesn't matter regardless,the Church has for centuries venerated the most pure Theotokos as the first amongst saints, to the testament of multiple saints and church fathers So do I take the word of pastor dave's church and RV dealership started a few years ago, or the church that St Constantine, St Basil, St Augustus, St Iraneaus, and St Ignatius (who was made a bishop by the apostle John, and wrote very catholic things in his epistles dated to the 2nd century) are part of ? The answer is clear btfo heretic

[@randychurchill201]

I've been listening to Jay for about a year now. I was hoping that he would spend more time on Protestant claims since Protestantism is different from Catholicism in many areas. This talk was amazing and it helped clear out some issues for me. I left Calvinism five years ago and all my Protestant friends from the past have relegated me to the status of a heretic. But two of my friends have now converted to Orthodoxy. One is studying to be a priest in Santa Barbra California. It all began when I started asking my Presbyterian pastor questions and I immediately saw that Calvinists have no understanding of Orthodoxy. The more questions I asked the more I was rebuked. Heresy is spiritual darkness. It does hurt people. My pastor even admitted to me that he had never heard such arguments or ideas. In all the years I was in the deformed faith no one ever talked about Orthodoxy or the church fathers unless they thought they could fit it into their Calvinism. I took classes from Greg Bahnsen when I lived in Southern California. I think it was my study of presuppositional apologetics that was the set up for me. Because I became aware of metaphysics and that took me away from the propositional and declarational theology. Once you start seeing the tapestry of meaning in Orthodoxy there is no way you can be a Protestant. Thank you Jay for using the gifts God gave you. You are my favorite apologist.

[@JayDyer]

Randy Churchill i studied at bahnsen seminary too

[@JoshuaBaron]

Yes Randy, I was not a Calvinist, but I went to some very crazy Protestant churches. Everything from Pentecostal to Messianic Christianity. It was ok for a while, but soon I started feeling empty and it does lead you to atheism. Jay was hard for me but the more I listen the more I found that there was substance in Orthodoxy. Maybe we can convert the West?

[@randychurchill201]

@@JayDyer Yes, I remember you talking about that on one of your videos. I joined New Life Orthodox Presbyterian Church back in the early 1990s. My church was the second largest church in the OPC. We were connected to Westminster Seminary because my pastor was on good terms with the seminary professors. So we would get the most talented interns from the seminary. Bahnsen would teach at my church and at that time he was teaching courses at Westminster Seminary. I remember the ruckus around Bahnsen. He was in several controversies at Bahnsen Seminary and later in the Southern California Presbytery. Theonomy was at its peak back then, and all the central players -Gary North and Rushdoony along with Kenneth Gentry were teachers I heard constantly. At that time Theonomy was causing a real split across the reformed landscape. My pastor in his first pastorate was next door neighbors with Rushdoony. So my church in the early years was very Theonomic. We had to live through long expository sermons for weeks on Leviticus back in those days. Bahnsen was blocked from becoming president of Westminster Seminary because of his Theonomy. It was all very political stuff as I remember it. Then Bahnsen became pastor of the OPC Church in Huntington Beach CA where my sister was a member for many years. That was the church he was pastoring before he died from his heart condition. Even though I left the reformed faith I still hold Bahnsen in high regard. He taught me how to think critically, and he put a lot of effort into teaching people to identify presuppositions. If Bahnsen could have joined his philosophical abilities with Orthodoxy he could have been much more effective. His theology held him back. My observation of him in reflection is that he was a very good philosopher. But he was not a very good preacher. He was a college professor and he was very good at it. I still think his greatest debate was with Gordon Stein.

[@destynationqz7273]

I am a former Protestant also but I would suggest to all of you brothers to avoid Eastern Orthodoxy and opt for Catholicism. Because Orthodoxy is just another form of protestation, Eastern Orthodoxy has no power of infallibility to distinguish itself from the incessant theorizing of Evangelicals on theological matters, *and I will explain why.* Ultimately this means Eastern Orthodoxy by definition cannot be the pre-schism Church, only Catholicism. You can go to OrthodoxWiki to learn about ecumenical councils in general, and they will tell you straight up that the Orthodox model of ecumenicity/infallibility was put forth to protest the Catholic model, it is a protestation not a stand alone by its own merits, it is a protestantism. And the article will go on to say that all the Orthodox models that have been proposed have failed according to their own theologians and must be replaced urgently, but by what they do not know, which is priceless. They tapped out, 1000 years still nothing. They do not know what makes a council ecumenical or infallible, they are Protestants with Bible and Church Fathers alone, that's it. *Think about it guys, listen to the reasoning here.* It's as if you had a Protestant admitting that Sola Scriptura wasn't operational before the compilation of a universally accepted canon, gaping hole in the ground. The Orthodox is admitting conciliarism, the belief that ecumenicity/infallibility depends on the council as opposed to the Pope at the council, isn't operational post-schism, and therefore cannot have been operational ever since it's a fallacy. Protestant fail before, Orthodox fail after. The pre-schism Church cannot be the Eastern Orthodox Church for the same reason Protestantism cannot be the pre-Constantine Church, it is an invention. This is fantastic, and then we are being accused by Russia for apparently sending Jesuit undercover agents to make most Orthodox believe the first 7 ecumenical councils are the only valid ones they got when they admit they don't even know what makes councils ecumenical. You cannot make this up. And I know Jay Dyer has his own little propaganda video about why Constantinople should stop sympathizing with Rome in an effort towards unity. *My brothers, here is an extract :* Receptionism was formed *primarily* in opposition to Roman Catholic viewpoints on the same question. For the Roman Catholic Church, a council's ecumenicity is primarily determined by its ratification by the Pope of Rome. Orthodoxy does not have the same ecclesiological structure as Rome, however, and so Khomiakov and others attempted to formulate another model by which the infallibility of Ecumenical Councils may be determined. ... At the current time, the episcopacy of the Church *has not as yet put forward a universal definition as to what precisely lends a council its ecumenicity(KO).* What is generally held is that councils may be regarded as ecumenical and infallible because they accurately teach the truth handed down in tradition from the Church Fathers. orthodoxwiki.org/Ecumenical_Councils

[@annkellett7592]

Randy Churchill Well said, Randy!

[@charlesheck6812]

I was a dispensational/charismatic evangelical for 11 years...then converted to the Reformed faith as a result of exposure to Calvinist teaching in the Fall of '91. Been Reformed ever since. In '93 or so, I studied under a prominent Theonomic theologian (Greg Bahnsen), attended his church and learned Presuppositonal apologetics and the transcendental argument for God's existence. After reading "Kingdom Prologue" by Meredith Kline 7 years ago, I became an appreciative proponent of the Redemptive Historical school of Reformed theology and was convinced that Theonomy was misled. I have been involved in polemics (dealing with cults and heresies) and have done a lot of street evangelism since my conversion. Learned a lot about Aleister Crowley's particular brand of Satanism since 2003 and I've been very aware of the occultic/esoteric symbolism, themes and experiences through movies, music, literature and culture in general since my conversion in 1980. Because of these interests, I've watched/listened to many of your videos and have both of your books, as well. Having said all of that, a dime dropped when I considered what you had to say about Sola Scriptura and the necessity of Church tradition in the selection of the Biblical Canon. As a result of this, I am VERY interested to learn and understand more of the Eastern Orthodox Church and doctrines. I am listening and I do have some questions. I posted one of them as a reply to one of your FB posts this morning. Anyway, thanks for all of your work, Jay.

[@JayDyer]

Charles Heck I went to bahnsen seminary. Glad to hear!

[@jaymieharris7936]

Man you been around!......….sounds like you've been swept by every wind and doctrine....have you settled or will you be converted to Scientology next week?

[@xxxmmm3812]

Jaymie Harris He is getting home finally so no

[@2growdaily181]

@@jaymieharris7936 Finally found that ever inspiring and encouraging comment by the stable super Christian.

[@HickoryDickory86]

@@jaymieharris7936 Ever heard of a man by the name of Justin Martyr?

[@Vanhyo]

Protestantism: her name is legion

[@jonathanreeve7823]

For they are many!

[@uncagedzebra6941]

With all the different denominations that came out of it I’d say the name fits

[@FTWbiology]

.... British israelite? Black hebrew israelites? Do these people not know the words of the Forerunner that the Lord can raise descendants of Abraham from stones.

[@Stephen-uz8dm]

They are not rational people. If what you are saying does not flatter their ethnic group they don't hear it

[@FTWbiology]

@HyperXT They are in direct contradiction with Paul, Romans makes abundantly clear that God's elect are from among both the Jews and the Gentiles. In Revelation 7 we see the total sealed elect, the 144000 (symbolic number) when John turns to see them it is a multitude so vast they can't be counted from every nation, tribe, peoples and language.

[@steventhomasmiller]

I’ve either lost and/or been dumbfounded in debates with atheists/non Orthodox over the years just simply because I didn’t know how to reply to their critiques. It’s nice to know that I’m now learning the answers to those critiques and will be prepared going forward.

[@OddHarvey]

This is, I think, my 3rd listen through. It’s so good homie.

[@viktoriaregis6645]

I know this is two years old, but two years ago I skipped the theological videos. But now is the time for me to learn. More or less I was lead to Orthodoxy through the esoteric to the philosophical, then to the debate videos. I learn so much from this lectures. Because it is really well prepared, full of knowledge and historical fact I didn't have a clue about.

[@MuhammadsMohel]

Former atheist/agnostic who finds your work and topics extremely helpful. I try my best to follow Jesus and starting go to church to draw near but I'm still learning and working through my understanding of where all the denominations are coming from, learning Greek, bought an Orthodox Study Bible, as well as reading Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, and others which put me on the path originally. Thank you, Jay.

[@Manuel-jt3fp]

God bless.

[@jesh879]

Nietzsche why? You thinking of killing yourself?

[@AZSETX]

I’ve watched this 4 times and still take notes..Thank you Jay

[@UnprofitableServant-bq3mx]

More gold on gold jay. You are the biggest unfluence on my leaving the prot church. I attended my first divine liturgy last week!

[@777Justin]

"Father Bruuuth" had me rollin

[@RyanGalazka]

My man

[@alleadonai]

The whole exercise of dry erase Catholic proclamation explanation 😂👍

[@shayneswenson]

Just watched this again today. Great stuff pal. Evergreen 🔥☦️

[@The-Autistic-Rat]

People think the "narrow way" is just paying some kind of lip service to Christ, while thinking they can live their lives in slightly curtailed hedonism while keeping with whatever general morality society is propagating at the time. This observation definitely helped push me to Orthodoxy.

[@galingtar]

This was extremely enlightening. Thanks for taking the time.

[@Industrinity]

The visual aids help. Another theology-heavy topic. Excellent work, Jay.

[@unrulyhunter6074]

This would be a much better and more whole world if this video had millions of views. The value in this content and presentation (especially to inquirers) is barely able to be contained in words, 'excellent' will have to suffice! I was a little offended by the drawing of Luther, but it doesn't take away from the truth of your talk. God bless

[@mattjonz2873]

looking healthy bro

[@unrulyhunter6074]

Doing those boomer infomercial exercises

[@whitemakesright2177]

1:48:00 Re: Sunday worship, as the Hebrews celebrated the original creation of the world on God's day of rest (Saturday), so we celebrate the new creation, the restoration, on God's day of resurrection.

[@j.d.837]

Your diagram and explanation of Rome is spot on, it's hilarious.

[@elizantoinette]

this was great, great and very great. Ty. Starting my first ortho bible study soon and I ordered the book, the cosmic mystery of Christ Jesus. This really makes so much sense to me.

[@michaelofstjoseph]

Please make sure to regularly attend an Orthodox Church too. Orthodoxy is experiential.

[@lukejackson7931]

3:17 the intro theme is nice though

[@hyweldda56]

Excellent presentation by the way

[@andrewneswick748]

Very informative! Very well done ! Keep up the good work young man! Glory to GOD ! Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me a sinner!

[@paulreuben7343]

subscribed to your channel for a few years now, good to see you on Dr Turley channel, I intend to dig into understanding Eastern Orthodoxy a lot more.

[@zachpsalms5276]

Been studying Orthodoxy for a year now and am currently attending a Russian Parish. I hope to become a Catechumen here soon and I owe almost ALL of it to your Videos Jay. I just realized a fantastic point you made on the subject of canonicity. If the Holy Spirit oversaw the collection of books that ultimately were to be received, why couldn't He also guide the church into other truths as well? Protestants need to be more consistent instead of presupposing the errancy of all traditions.

[@gregmaeser]

Nice comments on the Septuagint, Jay. Protestants don't have a good response to this IMHO. Have you read the book "When God Spoke Greek"?

[@emperorofhistory8724]

Excellent discussion, Jay. This is my second time going through this, just to reaffirm certain points I have to make with some very irrepressible Pentecostals who are trying to sway me back. (Don't worry, I'll gladly die before going back to such apostasy). I find it very illuminating of the current state of American Evangelicalism and the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement as a whole, that they're so divorced from sound theology and doctrine, that they don't bother to bring any of those up, any longer, to those they try to convert or in my case win back. They harp on the meaningless notion of community, and I keep reminding them I was in your so called loving community, it was empty and meaningless, and when I read Church history and realized how wrong practically everything you taught was, I had no reason to stay any longer. Not to mention that community is worthless if it is divorced from both the Church, and the creation of new families to procreate newer generations of the Church. It's all tied into modernist, globalist thought control, technocratic, population control nonsense anyway. And it's getting really obvious to see just how far down that hole too many Protestants have fallen. I won't say that being Protestant divorces you from God and salvation (you didn't, just making a point). At least I hope not as most of my family is rabidly Conservative Evangelical, and my own Dad is a preacher. Anyway... Loved this Jay, glad it's easy to find yet

[@braggsean1026]

I must add... Martin Luther ran through nearly ALL the ideas and doctrines in his time... He never seemed to stick to one single doctrine because he realized academia is an evolutionary process.

[@TJackson736]

Luther was also influenced by the princes

[@d.rey5743]

Yes

[@skipcharlie]

Good job Jay, looking forward to second half!

[@jonathanreeve7823]

Bro I’ve been looking for your rant on ‘business man church’ here it is ha ha ha love it

[@LarryRiedel]

As inconsequential as the interaction through the whiteboard may seem, I think it qualitatively enhances the presentation.

[@MelanCholy2001]

Le BOOM! Protestants "can't hear" this though. Sadly. So many SEEM so close but when you get to that whole "submission" to GOD'S WILL part, well, that's where the wheat is separated from the chaff. Pray for those who MAY YET be able to see the ONE truth once sinful pride is done away with, and their souls MIGHT be saved (as with all our souls, of course). Willful ignorance, especially in THIS day, probably won't be well received. (Good job, Jay!)

[@christianorthodoxy4769]

True ❤️

[@christianorthodoxy4769]

You are correct. It takes humility and obedience and true faith' and to let go of their arrogant Prideful' attitude

[@j.d.837]

Jay you singlehandedly got me excited about Theology again. I've worked my way through "The Cosmic Mystery of Jesus Christ" again and seeing it through new eyes. It's a little off topic but have you ever read Geoffery Hull's "The Banished Heart", and if so what do you think of it?

[@JayDyer]

J. D. I haven’t

[@theodore8178]

Ambiguum 7!!!

[@steve5123456789]

Random but could you do a analysis of the Shrek films? There's a lot of things going on in that one and I would enjoy hearing what you have to say about it.

[@Zangified02]

Watch Later Refuting Protestantism 20:25

[@ChristianWario]

Listened to this multiple times and still learn new stuff. Awesome job 👍

[@peacengrease3901]

The background is the best 3 minute and 17 second intro ever! That alone convinced me to convert

[@tyn3496]

Jay, I really appreciated your analogy of how corruptions to tradition happened even in the Old Testament, yet God was still able to work through that. Are there any traditions within modern Orthodoxy that you believe have become corrupted? This is a sincere question. Thank you.

[@charlesheck6812]

Wonderful wonderful work Jay! it’s impossible to put into words but Jesus has become much fuller and more powerful in my consciousness as a result of rejecting Nestorian views which I’ve held to for 40 years and embracing Orthodoxy. keep up the good work my brother

[@britonio2660]

“Business man Church”... so true

[@jonathanreeve7823]

‘Losing a Protestant pay cheque for a made up Protestant pastor ha ha bro keep them coming, made my day

[@truthwins9459]

I'll take an Orthodox liturgy over a "bible church" worship service any day.

[@AndronicusT]

Sick intro bro

[@domizzi626]

I like the intro. Wish I had it as a ringtone

[@jonathanreeve7823]

Top notch as always dude

[@Solideogloria00]

Protestant here. Love your content but I would come to your channel just for music. You should have conversations with educated Protestants in church history such as Jordan Copper or Gavin Orlund. They know church history too and disagree with you, asI do in many things.

[@stoneshrines3431]

I love how early 90s his video intros are

[@andresbenavides1768]

It's amazing the knowledge and mastery you have on the subject. I became a fan of you when you debunked Trent Horn´s rebutal on the 10 reazons you gave why you are not a Roman Catholic. Interesting and well developed historical content. However, there's something that gives me a kind of a red flag when I consider Orthodoxy, I just couldn't embrace all the doctrines (especially the ones regaridng the Saints and Mary). I'm a "sola Escritura" believer but your thoughts on this video enriched my knowledge. Thank you. All this journey I'm embarked on studying other faiths and believes is making me more certain about my condition as a complete ignorant and incapable to completely attain what the Lord expects from me. I've got the same feeling the thief on the cross must have had... I hope the Lord Remembers me when He comes into his kingdom. Any way Hugs and greetings from Ecuador...

[@Mikiortholay777]

Thank you brother Jay , God bless you and one question, I’m an oriental Orthodox Church member and I’m I now allowed to take communion in the Eastern Orthodox churches?

[@TheRealRealOK]

Miki No. We don’t commune with Oriental Orthodox.

[@Mikiortholay777]

O K , nah man , that’s not true G , check out the current situations, things are going well , they have already came to an agreement... I just want him to confirm or deny that I’ll share the link below so that you can check it out ✌️ brother kzbin.info/www/bejne/ammYqZSJf5mBr6M

[@Mikiortholay777]

John Walker , Good bless you sir !

[@kenshin4113]

I guess it depends if your theological position is Miaphysite or Chalcedonian, for the longest time the Oriental Church has been Miaphysite but it seems that more and more Orientals are starting to accept the Chalcedonian decrees, only time will tell for an official reunion.

[@Mikiortholay777]

Herman Quiahuitl , Confessing the statement by St. Cyril of Alexandria (c. 375-444) proclaiming the “one incarnate nature of the Word” of God, miaphysites declared that both Christ’s humanity and divinity were equally present through the Incarnation in one single nature (hence the Greek prefix mia, “same”) as the Word made flesh. ... Do that sound like a herecy brother?

[@Solideogloria00]

The Lutheran tradition doesn’t deny free will or that men can do good things. What is denied is man’s ability to seek God in of himself. It is God who take the initiative coming to us sinners to redeem us. (See article 18 in the Ausburg confession). Why? Scriptures clearly teach this. Theosis is also worked on in the Lutheran tradition (see Jordan Cooper’s work). You can’t extend Calvinist doctrine to Lutheran they’re very different.

[@NavyJablo]

Jay, you mentioned at one point that Christ did NOT have a fallen human nature like ours. You also mentioned that you were corrected on this issue. This is actually something I've been thinking about and discussing recently and I was caught by surprise by what you stated about Christ's human nature (even before the Passion, Crucifixion, and Resurrection) being like Adam in the garden - not fallen. Do you have any works or articles I can read on this? Also, how would you explain this in light of Romans 8:3, which states, "For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, god did by sending His own Son in the LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh....(emphasis mine)" Is the explanation of this merely that Christ APPEARED to share our fallen nature when, in reality, he did not? This seems similar to the concealment of His Divinity. The Jews and others regarded him as a man because he came as a man (in human nature), but He was actually a DIVINE person. Are these two things on similar ground? Great talk!

[@buffsoldierofchrist5907]

Anybody has book recommendations for a Protestant to read about orthodoxy? I am interested and want to learn about orthodoxy

[@willtheperson7224]

I recommend a good Catechism book "The Law of God" by Archpriest Seraphim Slobodskoy.

[@willtheperson7224]

Additionally "God's revelation to the Human heart" by Father Seraphim Rose.

[@christianorthodoxy4769]

To: Soldier Of Christ' are you still Reformned/Protestant' ??

[@buffsoldierofchrist5907]

@@christianorthodoxy4769 nah man, I’ve actually been discerning between RC and Orthodoxy and will go with RC.

[@christianorthodoxy4769]

@@buffsoldierofchrist5907 I understand you, but hey keep praying for the heirarchy and Clergy' etc. It's getting bad alright

[@ezkl9424]

As a Catholic child, I was given a NT but, forbidden to read it. I was just to carry it around for show but, I did read. When I also read the OT, I was scolded. Then, when I questioned the CC from the Bible, I was smacked with a ruler. That was my first foot outside the CC. My second foot out was when a drunken priest molested me. There is when I protested the Catholic Church.

[@avirtualsea2359]

Very informative! I was wondering if you will be covering the current crisis between The Church of Moscow and The Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople over the unifying of the Ukrainian Orthodox Churches. From what I've been reading Moscow Patriarch Kirill has broken communion with Constantinople and is now cutting off half of the Orthodox world that is under Constantinople because of their belief that Bartholomew is acting like a pope and took Kiev from them. Not to mention that the Kiev Metropolitan is a schismatic under Moscow. And from what I understand, the other side of the argument is that Constantinople has this right/obligation and there has or will be a Holy Synod. With all of the political conflict and mistrust( the Holodomor genocide 1932-33), communism , current civil war in Crimea, etc...and the fact that Kirill is very close to Putin, Ukrainian nationalists hold anything associated with Moscow with distrust. There are some news talks of this exasperating the tensions there and a potential Holy War fuelled by political motives. A potential schism akin to the Great Schism of 1054. Your thoughts and insight on this would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

[@JayDyer]

avirtualsea already have

[@avirtualsea2359]

Jay Dyer great to hear, I'm a new listener so not sure what title the video is under but I'll go do some more searching to find it...

[@scipioafricanus2195]

Missed that old-school dyerwave

[@sethfleishman5346]

Great talk. Thanks. -s

[@WeAreBullets]

i was raised protestant and i feel like we did agree with the enhypostasism thing, i learned that he had a human nature but he was sinless and he was the eternal person of jesus with a human nature. and they teach that he is the Last Adam basically. but then they also teach the whole accepting his life as payment for our sinful lives, that we are justified by believing in him and that he paid our debt for us. that his perfect life is accounted to us in God's courtroom and we are free so long as we have faith in Christ and accept this offer of justification, payment of our fine. i dunno, its funny, most of what orthodox say they believe i totally agree with, but the orthodox view of salvation was something i hadnt heard before, the resurrection being the true salvation part? i am still a bit confused. but the protestant explanation of his life being accounted to us believers and therefore justifying us by faith alone (specifically - Faith = Salvation + Works) sounds a bit funny, in a weird double-entry usury system sort of way haha but whatever, still learning

[@voxlknight2155]

Protestant claim of Sola Scriptura basically says that if God commands something, but doesn't have it written down, then we can ignore the command. If the Lord doesn't give us a receipt for his commands, then they aren't valid. How is it not obvious how ridiculous that is?

[@PillowCaseDog]

I had the same view for years but reading deeper just look at these scriptures Tradition & Bishops 2 Thessalonians 2:15 - Oral Tradition So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter. Matthew 16:19 - Binding and Loosing power of Bishops I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Isaiah 22:22 - Old Testament Parallel I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.

[@voxlknight2155]

@@PillowCaseDog I think you misunderstood what I said. I am well aware of the fact that Scripture supports the Orthodox position. But the Protestant idea of Sola Scripture has very little to do with Scripture, and more to do with pride. They believe in their own interpretation of Scripture, rather than what Scripture actually says. This is what I meant by "the Protestant claim of Sola Scriptura...", I was not implying that Scripture was actually against the Orthodox position on tradition. Also, I was more talking about things like liturgy, how to properly cross yourself, and the proper way of prayer, the monarchy of the father, essence and energy distinction. All things passed down by the apostles, but not written down in Scripture. But Protestants dismiss it because "oh, well, it's not explicitly written in the Bible, so I don't have to believe that". But, then again, even when teachings are explicitly said in Scripture, they ignore it. The true presence in the Eucharist for instance. Literal red text quote of Christ saying "blood is drink indeed, and flesh is meat indeed" and they still don't believe in the real presence.

[@riverjao]

Jay, is there a single book that best covers the Church Councils that you recommend? Thanks.

[@edwinalvarez1619]

I stumbled here to your channel you definitely cover interesting topics and are a deep thinker. I’m Pentecostal but I respect the Eastern Orthodox. To me the Eastern Orthodox Church is the closest in relation to the churches of the NT. As time goes on God allows us to evolve a bit. I believe Protestantism and Evangelicalism especially in the US suffers for a lack of knowledge of church history, and cultural background of the Bible. Which is why you have KJV only controversies, discrimination against Catholics and racism. They think they hold the pure gospel when in fact they don’t because they mix it with politics and moral superiority. Did the Reformation bring back the truths of Christianity yes but today it’s evolved into something else. If we believe in Christ and his teachings then we are all family. I’m not against all reformed believers it’s just a trend you see that reformed and Calvinist churches tend to be more militant in their beliefs and less welcoming to others of different sects. Example: John MacArthur, Mark Driscoll, James White etc. Do yourself a favor, get a Life Application Study Bible, and a Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible either in NIV or NRSV. If you want to get deeper but don’t know the original languages get the NET Bible full notes edition. The translation notes in this bible is a wealth of information. If you want to be at Jay Dyer’s level then do check out the Apocrypha and writings of early church fathers. St. Anthony certainly is a character. The Gospel is simple but for those who want more there is A LOT of nuggets of truth to mine through.

[@howdy2496]

I remember the dark and gloomy night I was gonna blow my head off. And the Lord through the Bible caused me to be born again. That book became alive that night. And I'm still alive. It was the Lord alone through His Word alone.

[@TheRealRealOK]

Uly Cer You should go deeper. Study Church history and watch Jay Dyer. Glad you’re still around.

[@richardjordan3735]

Uly Cer Praise God that The Holy Spirit intervened in your life to stop you from suicide! However, your comment is not pregnant to the Pentecost Event! At Pentecost Salvation happened for sure because it is written, "Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them!"-Acts 2:41. BUT verse 42 says, "and they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers!" Your comment acknowledges the work of The Holy Spirit salvifically, however denigrates the work of The Holy Spirit in Ecclesiology! Furthermore, you make a sweeping generalization that your experience of Salvation must be applied to every other experience which is a logical fallacy. The thief on the cross being proof!

[@howdy2496]

@@richardjordan3735 Acts 42 is the result and response of being born again. Its the natural consequence since a persons spiritual appetites have drastically changed. That same night as the Spirit of God overwhelmed I knew and had the assurance thatGod loved me and that I was His own. As I was reflecting and experiencing that a thought came into me and asked " how do you know that you are saved?" I reopened my Bible and it immediately landed on Romans 8:16 ( The Spirit Himself bears witness with our Spirit that we are children of God.) My praise for Him continued through the night. As the night progressed I was in total awe at how a few hours before I was going to end my life and now I really believed that nobody in the history of mankind had experienced such joy and peace from God this side of heaven. As I thought that I once again picked up my Bible and it landed on Philippians 4:7 ( and the peace of God, which passes all understanding will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.) God through His word corrected my thinking and showed me what I was experiencing wasn't the first time someone had experienced it. At the end of the night as I was lying on my bed I started to see how sinful and filthy of a person I had been. ( disrespecting my mom, thinking everyone else was messed up and not me ,my selfishness on and on. I asked God can you really forgive me for all my sins? Once again I opened my Bible it went to Isaiah 1:18 ( Come let us reason together says the Lord though your sins are like scarlet they shall be as white as snow Though they are red like crimson they shall be as wool.) I realize that doesn't happen to everybody. It doesn't mean they're not Christians. But I know I'm His Child and He loves me with an everlasting love as He does all His Children. Keep running the race my brother in Christ.

[@richardjordan3735]

@@howdy2496 Praise God for His Self Disclosure to you my brother in Christ!!! Amen!!! What a testimony He has given you!! I have similar stories!! And Praise be to God that we have stories to tell Amen? I must point out though, that it was "after," they became Christian that they devoted themselves to the Apostles teaching! We are blessed to have a bible, they didn't. Still we need to be subject to the Historical Church to safeguard us from false teachings! My comments were only to engender deeper and more critical thinking about Christ and the kingdom!! I apologize for sounding in anyway puffed up. Proverbs says Iron sharpens Iron, that was my only aim! God Bless you!

[@howdy2496]

@@richardjordan3735 God bless you my friend.

[@alfredosauce1]

You should debate Ryan Reeves a theologian here on KZbin.

[@alfredosauce1]

@Caleb Clark 100% agreed. His videos are very objective and he does a great job of detailing church history. Him and Jay might have an interesting talk

[@peterjurga8056]

Great video, thanks Jay. Re the Coptic church I think you're a bit unfair. The Coptic church has never been a state church in Egypt. Re Christology they follow the definition by Cyril of Alexandria. First Ecumenical Council of Ephesus (AD 431), over which Cyril presided clearly stated that anyone who separated Christ into two hypostases was anathema, as Cyril had said that there is "One Nature [and One Hypostasis] for God the Word Incarnate" (Mia Physis tou Theou Logou Sesarkōmenē). When in AD 451 Emperor Marcian attempted to heal divisions in the Church, the response of Pope Dioscorus - the Pope of Alexandria who was later exiled - was that the emperor should not intervene in the affairs of the Church. It was at Chalcedon that the emperor, through the Imperial delegates, enforced harsh disciplinary measures against Pope Dioscorus in response to his boldness. In AD 449, Pope Dioscorus headed the 2nd Council of Ephesus, called the "Robber Council" by Chalcedonian historians. It held to the Miaphysite formula which upheld the Christology of "One Incarnate Nature of God the Word" (Greek: μία φύσις Θεοῦ Λόγου σεσαρκωμένη (mia physis Theou Logou sesarkōmenē)), and upheld the heretic Eutyches claiming he was orthodox. The Council of Chalcedon summoned Dioscorus three times to appear at the council, after which he was deposed. The Council of Chalcedon further deposed him for his support of Eutyches, but not necessarily for Eutychian Monophysitism. Dioscorus appealed to the conciliar fathers to allow for a more Miaphysite interpretation of Christology at the council, but was denied. Following his being deposed, the Coptic Church and its faithful felt unfairly underrepresented at the council and oppressed politically by the Byzantine Empire. After the Byzantines appointed Proterius of Alexandria as Patriarch to represent the Chalcedonian Church, the Coptic Church appointed their own Patriarch Timothy Aelurus and broke from the Chalcedonian communion. The Council of Chalcedon, from the perspective of the Alexandrine Christology, has deviated from the approved Cyrillian terminology and declared that Christ was one hypostasis in two natures. However, in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, "Christ was conceived of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary," thus the foundation of the definition according to the Non-Chalcedonian adherents, according to the Christology of Cyril of Alexandria is valid. There is a change in the Non-Chalcedonian definition here, as the Nicene creed clearly uses the terms "of", rather than "in." In terms of Christology, the Oriental Orthodox (Non-Chalcedonians) understanding is that Christ is "One Nature-the Logos Incarnate," of the full humanity and full divinity. The Chalcedonians' understanding is that Christ is recognized in two natures, full humanity and full divinity. Oriental Orthodoxy contends that such a formulation is no different from what the Nestorians teach.This is the doctrinal perception that makes the apparent difference which separated the Oriental Orthodox from the Eastern Orthodox. The Council's findings were rejected by many of the Christians on the fringes of the Byzantine Empire, including Egyptians, Syriacs, Armenians, and others. Before the current positive era of Eastern and Oriental Orthodox dialogues, Chalcedonians sometimes used to call the non-Chalcedonians "Monophysites", though the Coptic Orthodox Church in reality regards Monophysitism as a heresy. The Chalcedonian doctrine in turn came to be known as "Dyophysite". Copts, thus, believe in two natures "human" and "divine" that are united in one hypostasis "without mingling, without confusion, and without alteration". These two natures "did not separate for a moment or the twinkling of an eye" (Coptic Liturgy of Saint Basil of Caesarea). From Chalcedon to the Arab conquest of EgyptEdit Prior to Chalcedon, the Imperial Church's main division stemmed from Nestorianism, eventually leading the Church of the East to declare its independence in AD 424. After the Council of Chalcedon in AD 451, the Coptic Church and its hierarchy felt suspicious of what they believed were Nestorian elements within the Chalcedonian Church. As a result, the anti-Chalcedon partisan, Timotheos Aelurus, consigned himself to depose the Chalcedonian Pope of Alexandria, Proterius of Alexandria, and to set himself up as the Pope of Alexandria in opposition to the Chalcedonian Church. Copts suffered under the rule of the Byzantine Empire. The Melkite Patriarchs, appointed by the emperors as both spiritual leaders and civil governors, massacred those Egyptians they considered heretics. Many were tortured and martyred in attempts to force their acceptance of the Chalcedonian terms, but the Egyptians remained loyal to the Cyrillian Miaphysitism. One of the most renowned Egyptian saints of the period is Saint Samuel the Confessor.

[@yevgeniyreznichenko7484]

Watch the realmedwhite’s video on Chalcedon. I’m not going to claim to know the answers as well as you, but it seems like there were serious theological differences between the EO and OO positions and it wasn’t just ‘misunderstanding’ (as is commonly claimed). m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/ap-QnqysjraCbq8

[@dantedocerto]

Just, Thank You

[@forestantemesaris8447]

Please, somebody, tell me where in the world can I get the hat Jay is wearing here?

[@karanjagtap8947]

Any chances of a debate with eric yabarra?

[@JayDyer]

Karan Jagtap I’ve asked many times. He always declines

[@TheRealRealOK]

Karan Jagtap Oh man, I wish that would happen. I can’t stand Ybarra.

[@mjl.9-19]

Does Jay have a talk about the atonement sacrifice of Jesus Christ??? I need to ponder that coming from a few years as a JW way back in the 70's. It may be sufficient as learned in most all Christian sects; the OT sacrifice template for sin. VS universal church and/or the Buddhist rejection of Christ's sacrificial death (is that natural theology?)

[@annkellett7592]

This might help: orthodoxwiki.org/Soteriology

[@JohnVandivier]

Protestant here: I hear you arguing well against sola scriptura, but this is inessential. Ditto for your argument in favor of holy tradition - many Protestants embrace a denominational holy tradition Seems to me to refute Protestantism you ought to actually show Luther’s move was in error, and you would thereby encourage Protestants to roll back into Roman Catholicism: this is a huge problem because much of what Luther said was right and to this day much of what the Roman Catholics say is incorrect Also not sure what you think you are refuting with evangelicalism: there are Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox evangelicals too. Evangelism is a thing we all ought to do and I didn’t here anything you say actually claim evangelicals over-emphasize or incorrectly implement the practice. Seems like good critiques of inessential substances held to by only some Protestants.

[@JohnVandivier]

@Nestorian Calvin haha icu exaggerating but I'm down!

[@bruderklaus9976]

Check out historic Confessional Lutheranism. It didn't reject the Office of the Ministry, the Canon, the Real Presence in the Eucharist, Baptismal Regeneration, the historic latin Liturgy, the Fathers and other traditions of high value for the church. It is clear that Luther had many flaws, but it is also clear that the historic Confessional Lutheran Churches didn't see themselves as being bound to the flaws. Instead, they understood that Luther was in a unique situation in church history where he had to emphasize, e.g. the primacy of Holy Scripture as a corrective tool to cleanse the current theology, liturgy and practice of stuff that contradicts scriptural teaching. Confessional Lutherans did keep alot of the latin tradition. For that reason, they are part of the latin tradition. It's true that the huge majority of so-called Protestantism cannot claim the same. But as I find myself on the historic side of Protestantism, I also find myself agreeing with you on alot of points.

[@JayDyer]

Bruder Klaus confessional lutheranism is christologically heretical

[@bruderklaus9976]

@@JayDyer Have you read "The two natures in Christ" by Martin Chemnitz? We avoid Nestorianism, as opposed to the Reformed.

[@bruderklaus9976]

Actually, that's the first time that I hear that. Any explanations?

[@randallsunderland4331]

Why are the deuterocanons not considered to be at the same level? Also why do we include 2nd Esdras if it’s not in the Septuagint? I just want to understand better.

[@RockNow91]

I gotta say I don't really get how canon 12 of Nicea permits military service. "As many as were called by grace, and displayed the first zeal, having cast aside their military girdles, but afterwards returned, like dogs, to their own vomit, (so that some spent money and by means of gifts regained their military stations); let these, after they have passed the space of three years as hearers, be for ten years prostrators. But in all these cases it is necessary to examine well into their purpose and what their repentance appears to be like. For as many as give evidence of their conversions by deeds, and not pretence, with fear, and tears, and perseverance, and good works, when they have fulfilled their appointed time as hearers, may properly communicate in prayers; and after that the bishop may determine yet more favourably concerning them. But those who take [the matter] with indifference, and who think the form of [not] entering the Church is sufficient for their conversion, must fulfil the whole time." It's not necessarily an argument for pacifism, but for whatever reason it does seem to forbid military service for a Christian. At least at that time and place

[@PrinceDarius777]

Can you drop a link your article on the references of the deuterocanonical books in the New Testament

[@theophan9530]

Dear Jay, what is the difference between "semi-pelagianism" and the Orthodox doctrine of "synergeia" ("cooperation of divine grace with human will")? I think the Orthodox standpoint is exactly defended by St John Cassien who has been accused, with St Vincent of Lérins and some others (who all knew very well the oriental ascetic tradition), of "semi-pelagianism". So-called "semi-pelagianism" just seems to be "synergeia" and the traditional orthodox understanding of the relationship between God's grace and human will and efforts towards keeping the Lord's commandments, etc. The "Spiritual Homilies" of St Macarius the Great and the "Hundred Gnostic Chapters" of St Diadochus of Photike are also very clear on that matter (and complete spiritual masterworks). The condemnation of the Council of Orange is not relevant to Orthodox christians, who teach that both "augustinianism" and "pelagianism" are excessive and dangerous. To us Orthodox, John Cassien, Vincent of Lerins and Faustus of Riez are all saints and Fathers of the Church. St Augustine is of course also a saint and a Father of the Church, but he is far from being considered a true "Doctor of the Church", and we must always compare his exegesis and insights with the other patristic ones.

[@theophan9530]

@@johnnyd2383 All I know is that all the orthodox theologians I've read (including Vladimir Lossky and Georges Florovsky) call him a saint. It is but logic since he has been canonized before the schism, he has to be a saint for both East and West. But in the East he was no "Doctor of the Church", that's the big difference. His theology wasn't (and still isn't) normative, though he is often cited by modern Orthodox theologians who studied the Latin Fathers as well.

[@shiningdiamond5046]

We believe in synergia but also in celestial hierarchy, our will is ours but we are meant to submit our wills to God's which is the emphasis of Theosis

[@theophan9530]

@@shiningdiamond5046 Yes I know, but the question isn't about that : I was specifically addressing the fact that Jay says we Orthodox should avoid "semi-pelagianism", because of the local Council of Orange. The problem is that this council, in accordance with the false and non-patristic perspective of St Augustine on the subject, condemned as "semi-pelagian" people like John Cassian of Marseilles, Vincent of Lerins and Fautius of Riez, who in fact are just holding to the Orthodox teaching of synergeia. My remark is that we shouldn't accept at all this appellation of "semi-pelagianism", because it is just the augustinian way of speaking of an Orthodox doctrine. This is a historical fact proving again that St Augustine held a heretic statement on grace, free will and predestination that opened the way to all the later debates in Western theology, up to the XVIIth century (Molinism vs. Jansenism). They can never get out of that dead-end (as the RC Catechism shows, and all Protestant thinking) because they lost the patristic doctrine of synergeia and think Augustine is the ultimate Church Father (which is false).

[@benjaminsmith4988]

How about the "Hidden" books that Protestants did not use ? Those 7-10 deuterocanonical books were rejected at the time of the Reformation. The reformers fought that some of the scripts of the Hidden books are inaccurate. They could confuse the reader while reading the Bible entirely. "For God is not the author of [a]confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. (1 Cor 14:33 NKJV)"

[@joshua_finch]

Where do you address the necessity of apostolic succession?

[@The-Autistic-Rat]

1:33:30 hilarious, disturbing and completely true. People can't conceive of nominal Christians fragmenting over stuff that, while there's literally as many types of holistic nihilistic worldviews on the planet as there are nihilists. So relativism only applies when they can be slimy with it.

[@scott236]

What do you think of the waldensians?

[@cesarcampos8746]

James white be looking like ming the mercyless in the thumbnail

[@speezbortzappfing3r224]

He who knew no sin was made to be sin

[@kostaskladakis8938]

All denominations have their strengths and weaknesses. Where is Orthodox evangelism if it is so right!!

[@kalash2874]

They are on every continent

[@jimdee9801]

Cool description of Vatican at 1.33

[@thesipesisrandom4534]

For clarification, you've mentioned how the Greeks are crazy liberal now, and the Russians are best. Is that similar to the Novus Orda (Greeks) and St. Peter thing (Russian) and then like Antioch being the 3rd one you mentioned ? I.e. they're "in communion" with each other but quite a bit different on some issues? Help me out my brotha, thinking long and hard about converting!

[@thesipesisrandom4534]

Thank you Cinan!

[@thesipesisrandom4534]

Sorry, Ciaran

[@christianorthodoxy4769]

I hope you converted to the Orthodox' faith.

[@joemcarthy8124]

The orthodoxy deifies tradition. Act chapter 17 verse 11. 11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. The Calvinist simply implies that it is your relationship with God through Jesus Christ not your traditions or the collective's traditions you belong to that effect your salvation.

[@joemcarthy8124]

@@johnnyd2383 Wrong ; the"OT" clearly identified Jesus Christ and the salvation he would bring . Tradition temple teaching was not teaching the salvation that Jesus Christ was bringing ; they were trying to destroy it . The early Christian definitely had to rely on reading scripture and not trusting tradition.

[@joemcarthy8124]

@@johnnyd2383 So you are saying that Christian faith was different from faith in the "OT" ; it was their "holy " tradition that Jesus denounced to the scribes.

[@Kevin5279]

@@joemcarthy8124 The New Testament itself is a product of Church tradition. It was the Church that decided which books should be in the canon of scripture and which shouldn't. There was no compiled and codified NT for the first few centuries of Christianity, but a bunch of traditions varying in degree of authority. That is why Sola Scriptura makes little sense. I would trust the views of the Church fathers who better understood the faith instead of relying on theologians from the 16th century and later

[@shiningdiamond5046]

@@joemcarthy8124 Jesus later in the same book affirms the validity of their traditions but condemned the men for not knowing that they are affirmed because of Christ so no he didn't condemned tradition wholesale but they are not meant to go against scripture or other forms of revelation

[@booleanlol]

1:34:01, 1:24:05, 1:02:01

[@katie-scarlettgooding4486]

I find the Orthodox faith and very compelling and the early church to reflect those teachings but I have objections from others in my Protostent family who say "Isn't that just moving it back a step? How is it any better to interpret the fallible fathers of the early church and come to anything better then if we interpate the Bible alone ourselves?" To which I haven't found a good response. Ideas?

[@sihtnaelkk2187]

I'm not an expert (first things first) but I'd like to give my point of view and if you want take it into consideration.. My first point is that following the Church is Jesus's command. Taken from the Bible that the Protestants love to refer to : ) As He promised that "The Gates of Hades will not prevail against it". He also explicitly told the Apostles to baptize the nations in the name of the Holy Trinity. This can only happen in the context of the Church He created because pay attention: He said: "...upon this rock I will build MY Church...". There is only one Church Jesus built.. Not following it is actually not believing in Jesus's promise. Don't Protestants say that only believing in Jesus brings salvation? Yet they disbelieve him by not following the institution He created for us.. So he gave us an authority for the Bible's interpretation.. The Apostles and the Church he created. And the Apostles, as is known, created successors. Today's ordained bishops. And the proof for that: The Church actually *compiled* the Bible.. It is Holy, exactly because the Church's Tradition and authority established it this way..... Protestantism doesn't have a church structure. And if it does, it surely is not the Church Christ established.. And it promotes a novelty: That anyone can be illuminated by the Holy Spirit and interpret the Scriptures correctly.. If this were true, I say, couldn't Muhammad say the same? So which one is truth, Christianity or Islam? Because it can't be both... Does the Holy Spirit illuminate with lies? Big blasphemy.. So, it is demonstrated that believing that someone can interpret Bible by themselves, is fruit of arrogance... The result of this is, of course... 30.000 different (Protestant) Churches that claim to be true and guided by the Spirit. This can't be the case.. Now, there have been false teachers along the way, as you said.. Nestorius, Arius, Origen, Eutyches to name just a few.. You know what's common in all of them? They have been condemned! By our Church's Authority, through Ecumenical Councils. Like the one the Apostles convened (50 AD) showing us the way of solving disputes. Today's bishops are their ordained heirs through Apostolic Succession. I hope this solves your questions.. If you want, you can write back and discuss : ) Be a blessing.

[@mitch0990]

Does it matter that the fathers were the ones to canonize the documents that now make up the New Testament? And is the goal to believe the same things as the first christians?

[@colerobbins124]

I would be interested in a link to show that the Greek Archdiocese of NA handbook says born to proselytize people.

[@hyweldda56]

How do you know which oral teaching - the oral Word of God - is from the Apostles and authoritative, and which isn’t?

[@overthinker117]

@Mark Williams I’ve not yet read it, but I’ve heard that St. Vincent of Lerins’ “Commonitorium” is an excellent resource on that subject. Basically and briefly, we know what traditions are holy and authoritative because they have “been believed everywhere, always, by all."

[@aaronmyers4665]

Jay where can I learn about the liturgy and daily readings becoming the canon of scripture

[@JayDyer]

lee Macdonald and canon of scripture by ff bruce

[@cal7154]

The deification of Mary is tough for me. What’s orthodoxy say about that?

[@oogaleeboogalee6522]

Not sure if this is bait or not but nobody "deifies" Mary the theotokos, not even Roman Catholics. We do venerate the virgin Mary as "theotokos" because we believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who saved the world, therefore we acknowledge Mary's role as being important for the Incarnation, and thus salvation

[@cal7154]

@@oogaleeboogalee6522 ok, thank you. Not bait. Pentecostal looking to convert here. Just curious on what the truth is, Protestants like to claim its idolatry. And I had never heard the real teaching on it. Thank you

[@Robert-fe4uf]

You should debate VaticanCatholic he made a video about you!

[@jamesharper151]

And they would beat him lol

[@pennsyltuckyreb9800]

I appreciate BOTH channels like VaticanCatholic and Jay Dyer.

[@nickhanley5407]

While you’re watching this video notice how many times Jay quotes from church fathers in comparison to how few times he quotes scripture. The Jews did the same thing and Jesus rebuked them for relying on traditions of men instead of following the writings given to us by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

[@frankherbert6476]

What this means is that he is basically not giving his personal interpretation of Holy Scripture, but the understanding of those who were just a generation or two separated from the Apostles, or were around when the Bible was being assembled etc. It's like a constitutional law conversation when one references supreme court justices, Federalist papers etc. It prevents one person's "inspiration/interpretation" which is why the protestant church-all 40,000+ is in the mess they are in.

[@heftymagic4814]

Cope, 40+ denoms and none of them have apostolic succession

[@d.rey5743]

You are literally epistemically required to appeal to fallible traditions of men to have a canon of scripture at all

[@paulpaluciano6162]

Nick, you are so obviously coping...

[@Tyler_W]

There was a bit that especially caught my attention. What you're saying is that Augustine started the tradition that salvation is only offered and given to the elect, but that the earlier church fathers believed that all existence in the cosmos (and therefore all people?) would eventually be redeemed? Am I understanding this idea of cosmic-level redemption right or am I misunderstanding something? I'm basically a Baptist (nondenominational but come from a Baptist background) trying to learn a little more about Orthodoxy. I think it brings insight and correction to some things that I think people of my religious background get wrong, and I'd really appreciate a better understanding of the Orthodox perspective. Thanks for what you do. It's very insightful.

[@thenopasslook]

Tyler Worsham Check out his recommended reading on his website. jaysanalysis.com/recommended-reading-2/

[@Tyler_W]

@@thenopasslook definitely will do.

[@Tyler_W]

@@thenopasslook i just bought an Orthodox Study Bible today.

[@thenopasslook]

Tyler Worsham The Orthodoxy Study Bible isn’t all that imo. I have one too. They need one on the level of the ESV Study Bible.

[@TheRealRealOK]

Bryson Townsend It’s a good Bible regardless, particularly the commentary.

[@bjsb6514]

Wait, if substitutionary atonement is nestorianism, than that would have to mean the reformers claimed that the divine person (the Son) took on a human person. But they do not claim this, they claim that He took on Human nature as well.. so I don’t see it. Someone in comments let me know what I’m missing.

[@WeAreBullets]

jay, if jesus did not take on fallen human nature (i believe he never sinned of course but..) if he took on Adam's pre-fall nature then how come he cried and ate and slept? those are new things for humans from aFter the fall of Adam? so how can we say jesus took Adam's nature if his human nature cried and slept and ate which would have not been part of originally Adam's nature?

[@TheRealRealOK]

WeAreBullets He took on our nature and redeemed it.

[@daisybrown3819]

Can someone convert to orthodoxy on their death bed?

[@a.kamileon]

Nope