Protestants Are Wrong About Mary's Assumption. Here's Why:

[@TheMoreYouSew]

I'm so glad you did this today! Happy Feast of the Assumption from a Catholic curious Protestant!

[@mariatr492]

Fun fact: on Holy Days of Obligation (Aka like the Assumption), we call them Solemnities rather than Feasts! Check out your local Catholic parish today, most will often have a daytime mass and an evening mass on holy days!

[@krissymckee]

Amen. Same for me. ❤🙏🏼

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

@@mariatr492 actually it’s the feast of the assumption. Celebrate! I’m watching two crowns a documentary movie about Saint Maximilian Kolbe, who had a great devotion to Jesus and His mother, and he died on the vigil of the assumption.

[@lifematterspodcast]

God bless you. I converted 2 Easters ago from Protestantism. Best decision of my life because now I can receive Jesus in the Eucharist. The truest and most deep connection ever

[@peterzinya1]

If your curious, Mary is really Diana, complete with all her titles and powers, and feast day. The early Roman state run religion told the Diana worshipers that Diana is now Mary in order to have them join this new religion. The Diana worshipers were not about to abandon her. Diana was the virgin queen of heaven and a powerful hunter and a virgin. Today is the feast day of Diana. Dont believe me. Look it up.

[@thomasdenmark]

How does this channel only have 26k subscribers? should be 2.6 million. Great arguments, so eloquently stated. Coming from a Protestant background I'm learning more and more that the Catholic church isn't what the Protestants say it is.

[@annendione7694]

2 Timothée 4 3

[@anhgiangho]

I know right! Too bad Catholic apologist is not welcomed much in this world. But hey , narrow way has few people walking on. As long as we going on it. Happy feast of Assumption day, brothers and sisters

[@hyeminkwun9523]

Glad that you are beginning to understand the Truth! May God bless you and lead you to His Only Fold so that you may hear His Voice, truly know and follow Him, and be saved by Him (John 10:16, 27-28). Amen!

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

@@annendione7694 False doctrines like bible alone, faith alone, me alone, my ego alone and the greatest of all: alone alone.

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

@@hyeminkwun9523 The others, despite their PROTESTATIONS to the contrary, "went out from among us"

[@michaelc1561]

I am a Lutheran and i find myself in agreement with 90% of Roman Catholic theology, certainly far more so than other protestant denominations. Prior to listening to this i didnt know the distinction betwen Assumption vs Ascension that is made in this case. Knowing this now I understand and accept it especially when explained alongside the idea of Mary as the ark of the new covenant which I already understood and accepted. Very well made and explained video

[@Maranatha99]

Don't believe those lies. Mary is not the new ark of the covenant. Mary was not taken to heaven in her body.

[@geoffjs]

@@Maranatha99Bad Mariology leads to bad Christology!

[@Life-er6mq]

@@Maranatha99 did you not watch the video? the parallels are strikingly clear the way it is laid out. The old ark of the covenant carried the Mosaic Law (10 commandment tablets), manna (bread from heaven), and Aaron’s staff (the authority of the high priest). Mary, the New Ark of the Covenant carried the fulfillment of the Law of Moses, who is the Bread of Life from Heaven, and the High Priest in the Order of Melchizedeck. I didn’t pull this together out of some “lies”, numerous early Church Fathers have made this connection; in fact it was very obvious to them and Joe Heschmeyer actually laid out these parallels in multiple places in this very video; King David in 2 Samuel encountering the ark of the Covenant prefiguring Mary visiting Elizabeth in Luke 1. Luke literally writes this with 2 Samuel in mind and the events take place in the exact same place. It’s true and it’s right there in the Bible and the earliest Christians believed this and took it for granted as is pointed out in the video. I get if you are dubious or cautious because this might sound strange compared to your own tradition, but these are things you can read about in scripture, reason through, and even pray about if its implications are troublesome to you. I sincerely hope this helps in some way 🙏🏾

[@shamelesspopery]

@michaelc1561 I'm so happy to hear that! God bless you.

[@datalore8270]

@@Maranatha99 "Don't believe those lies. Mary is not the new ark of the covenant. Mary was not taken to heaven in her body." How do you know they are lies?

[@aWitness33]

I know from first hand experience that not honoring Jesus mother brings one to torment. We are told to honor our parents, not worship them. We honor Mary as Christ’s mother, thus the mother of the church.

[@ethanmiller5487]

How much honor is Mary due compared to the honor due to God?

[@macbride33]

​@ethanmiller5487 Do you love her Son?

@@ethanmiller5487 So now you're measuring love; God's love is infinite; do you put a limit on loving your own earthly mother. With Mary throughout history she has helped many souls get to heaven even bad Catholic kings. Demons fly away at even her name. Would you not want her at your side especially at your deathbed when Satan and his demons will try to claim your soul.

[@ethanmiller5487]

@macbride33 I'll answer your questions after you answer mine.

[@heyitsedz1785]

Agreed my friend.. we cannot honour and love Mary more than Jesus himself!

[@SuperTommox]

Confusing the Holy Roman Empire and the Roman Empire is crazy.

[@Michael-bk5nz]

It reminds me of an old joke A theology student was talking so long to finish that he was at risk of his funding being taken away. So he was brought before the review board and they asked him to “ Who was the first king of Israel?” And he replied “Saul… who later changed his name to Paul”

[@AJKPenguin]

The Holy Roman Empire is an affiliated continuation of the Roman Empire in the West. It began on the foundations of Christianity from ruins of the Empire. That stated, the Roman Empire was alive in Byzantium far longer.

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

Millions depend upon MacArthur's delivery: millions of DOLLARS.

[@ChristoverMarxfortheWin]

@@Michael-bk5nz That would be the biblical knowledge, of a typical Catholic walking in to a typical Catholic church.

[@davidlinehat4657]

@@AJKPenguinyep, Byzantium was Roman and they continued into the fifteenth century

[@juans.m3853]

I used to be evangelical and loved John MacArthur until I found out how much he lies about Catholicism. Thanks to that it led me to the church. Pray for my family for they still attend

[@Justas399]

what lies did he tell about catholicism?

[@grossepointemichigan]

​@@Justas399 Pretty much everything that comes out of his mouth about Catholicism. He makes a nice living from it.

[@Justas399]

@@grossepointemichigan give me a couple of examples of his lies.

[@rebeccaprewett5014]

It’s difficult to know how much is blatant ignorance and how much is deliberate deception. His seeming ignorance about the difference between assumption and ascension may be a deliberate attempt to misrepresent Catholic teaching, or it may be a serious case of being in way over his head when it comes to basic doctrine. Even back in my days as a Protestant, I grew alarmed at his lack of scholarship. He couldn’t even accurately quote a book he was claiming to refute, and he kept arguing against a straw man of the author’s actual position. That’s when I realized that, at best, MacArthur suffers from poor reading comprehension and a lack of good theological training. If so, he is not humble enough to realize this. At any rate, no matter how sure he sounds of himself, he is definitely not a good source of information or insight.

[@Justas399]

@@rebeccaprewett5014 You have got to be kidding. He has written commentaries on many of the books of the Bible and is or was the head of a seminary. He also wrote most of the notes for the Macarthur Study Bible which has over 25,000 notes and is used by thousands.

[@jmisssjb05]

Is it just me or does anyone else find themselves rewatching old episodes because they’re sad they’ve finished the latest episode? I need more Joe in my life, lol. Btw Joe, I could not be more happy that you now have two episodes a week now.

[@MrPeach1]

I go back and relive the dust up Joe had with Gavin Ortlund on prayers to the Saints. I think Joe dismantled him pretty good. He also points out that Gavin references a video he WILL make in the future as part of his rebuttal... We are still waiting on that video he promised. I am not holding my breath.

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

@@MrPeach1 Insiders report that Mr. Ortlund's video will be titled: "More Of The Same, but Louder"

[@Chris82151]

All these arguments are quite compelling, but as it happens, I'm already Catholic.

[@MrPeach1]

well then enjoy your feast of the assumption Holy Day today!

[@Ruudes1483]

You don’t have to convince me any more, you already had me at “Welcome back to Shameless Popery”!

[@davidgallegos4771]

😂 haha

[@shepherddog1199]

Happy feast day! As a former Arian who is becoming Catholic, thank you so much.

[@shamelesspopery]

Praise God! And welcome home. 😊

[@secessionblog3189]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

[@jeandost7740]

Any religious denomination weather it is Catholicism or a Protestantism preaches a different Gospel with doctrines of lies will all be judge to be liars and will be sent in the lake of fire of hell if they do not repent and be born-again. As we all know it only takes one lie to end up in hell. Look what happened to Adam and Eve they committed one lie and they were kicked out of the garden the same for liars will be kicked out of the kingdom of God. The Bible says all liars will have their part in the lake of fire and the wage of sin is death. Since all these two denominations have existed for centuries has committed many lies by taking out true meaning doctrines from the apostolic fathers and adding or replacing with false new doctrines to justify their narrative belief and by reading them out of context and not taking in it's face value will be judge accordingly. All religions who are not true to the words of the inspired words of God in the Bible it is not the church of Jesus Christ but a synagogue of Satan. It will mean nothing to God for you to keep defending your religion if you let men dictate what it says unless your correct your teaching habit by letting God speak to you through the Holy Spirit not by men's authority as if they know better then what Jesus has preached.

[@DevelopmentRobco]

Coming from a former CoC member. The protestant idea of "worship" is so low, they look at Catholic's reverence for Mary and call it worship.

[@ekatrinya]

Excellent point.

[@society1421]

I understand that you meant Church of Christ, but my brain thought you were in a Clash of Clans cult or something 😂

[@MalleusEcclesiae]

I often state to them "The problem isnt that you think we worship Mary, the problem is that you have never Worshipped God."

[@rishanborrymbai1104]

Look to the things that are practical; what are the catholic congregation are doing rather than speaking theology.

[@Qohelethful]

@@rishanborrymbai1104 oh well then you get into all sorts of absurd and overtly heretical practices. Catholic doctrine isn’t crazy, it’s a bit “extra value meal” “we made this up because it seems nice and Scripture doesn’t contradict it” but most of the different doctrines/dogmas can be tortured out of creative readings of Scripture. The practices of the laity though…well, they need a Reformation 🤣

[@davidtalley6939]

When I came into the faith, I was learning to pray the rosary. One night when my wife and I were praying the rosary, I heard a voice that told me "Follow my mother, she will lead you to me." Since then I have consecrated myself to the Blessed Virgin Mother.

[@garyr.8116]

@davidtalley6939 - Are you now closer to Christ? care to detail?

[@LorenzoGMP]

​@garyr.8116 Not the same person and didn't here any voices, but the Rosary did bring me back to Jesus. I was struggling with life, and harshly so, and she brought me back home. Without her aid I wouldn't be attending Mass everyday and I would be incapable of living a life of grace in the eyes of the Lord.

[@garyr.8116]

@@LorenzoGMP thx for sharing your story. I've been 'rescued' multiple times thru the Rosary in my life when I was 'lost' - including 1 time I shoulda died but was given a 2nd chance as I was NOT in a 'state of grace' (promise #7) - that brought be so close to Christ I wouldn't have made it without Him! Mother Mary thank you so much for pointing me in the right direction to efficaciously reach Christ!

[@JuanGonzalez-kb3gm]

@@davidtalley6939 I feel robbed, I started to pray and A demon came to me and told me I was the son of Adam and Eve a sinner, I would live a sinner and die as a sinner. Not as beautiful as your comment, but my faith did increase. It still proves the existence of God indirectly.

[@kootvanzyl8250]

You do not need to hear voices to believe something. It can be the devil you know. Read the Bible it is the Word of God. If you do not believe the Bible but need to change it to suit your own agenda, you are lost.

[@cammos07]

This was SO helpful! Thank you! My first year celebrating this feast as a Protestant who will enter into full communion with the Catholic Church this coming Easter. This is not something I’ve dug into mainly based on your last argument. If the Church has gotten it right on all of the other dogmas and has been given the authority to lead us into all truth, then I have just believed Mary’s Assumption to be true because the Church says.

[@jeandost7740]

Any religious denomination weather it is Catholicism or a Protestantism preaches a different Gospel with doctrines of lies will all be judge to be liars and will be sent in the lake of fire of hell if they do not repent and be born-again. As we all know it only takes one lie to end up in hell. Look what happened to Adam and Eve they committed one lie and they were kicked out of the garden the same for liars will be kicked out of the kingdom of God. The Bible says all liars will have their part in the lake of fire and the wage of sin is death. Since all these two denominations have existed for centuries has committed many lies by taking out true meaning doctrines from the apostolic fathers and adding or replacing with false new doctrines to justify their narrative belief and by reading them out of context and not taking in it's face value will be judge accordingly. All religions who are not true to the words of the inspired words of God in the Bible it is not the church of Jesus Christ but a synagogue of Satan. It will mean nothing to God for you to keep defending your religion if you let men dictate what it says unless your correct your teaching habit by letting God speak to you through the Holy Spirit not by men's authority as if they know better then what Jesus has preached.

[@andrewpearson1903]

The John MacArthur clip is like one of those old slapstick cartoons where the character can't stop stepping on rakes that swing up and hit him in the face

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

Except he keeps stepping on his....(body part)

[@iggyantioch]

@@andrewpearson1903 three stooges 🤣

[@jmorra]

Sideshow Bob!!

[@NotSoCradleCatholic]

In context of Mary as Queen of Heaven, I noticed in the books of Chronicles, whenever a king was named, it also immediately named the king’s mother as well. And I forget who but one king died with no children to take the throne, so his mother became Queen.

[@alhilford2345]

Very interesting. I will look it up.

[@EpoRose1]

Also, looks at 1 Kings chapter 2, where King Soloman gets up and bows to his mother, then puts her at his right side. Then she makes an intercession.

[@datalore8270]

@@EpoRose1 It makes me a little sad, thinking about all of the wondrous typology protestants miss. The Lord is glorious indeed.

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

@@datalore8270 The Protestant faith has degenerated into bible as law book.

[@datalore8270]

@@HAL9000-su1mz Not for Catholics.

[@RobertW-ByzantineCatholic]

Joe, you are a gift to Christendom. You are the best apologist for The One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church we have. Your ability to bring the receipts and systematically dismantle modernism, the synthesis of all heresies, with historical evidence was huge in my reversion back to The Church. Thank you for your apostolate.

[@ChristopherPlance]

An amazing defense! Scripture, reason, faith: it's all there! Great job, Joe. May God bless you and your work! Keep it up

[@RedRoosterRoman]

Happy feast day! Glory to Jesus

[@gregorypietersen4459]

I live in South Africa,and I used to listen to a Christian radio station which featured sermons and preaching by MacArthur as well as James white. I must say that both if them are slimy peddlars of falsehood masquerading as genuine charitable teaching

[@truthnotlies]

Yup

[@timcooper1321]

you are being charitable to these false teachers.

[@lukeohanlon2960]

Love the topic and the energy you brought to this Joe. This will surely help explain this belief to others. Fantastic episode 🎉

[@michaelogrady232]

The same Authority that gave us the Canon of Scripture gave us the dogma of the Assumption.

[@R.C.A.T]

@@michaelogrady232 And the Trinity

[@tony1685]

the Holy Spirit didn't give us the 'assumption', catholicism did.

[@R.C.A.T]

@@tony1685 And Jesus gave us the Catholic Church

[@tony1685]

@@R.C.A.T not seeing it, friend. wouldn't Jesus' have a church which obeys Him and upholds Truth? catholicism doesn't -- per John 14:15 and 1 Tim 3:15

[@R.C.A.T]

@tony1685 Well thanks Tony for using the Catholic book against the Catholic church. Guess we missed that verse

[@Christiaan-w8p]

I have learnt so much from this video, thank you brother.

[@claujff7092]

"All generations will call me blessed", I want to be one of them who calls her blessed, Mary Queen of Heaven, pray for us 🙏

[@mikeoxmaul1788]

"the queen of heaven" is a pagan title that God rejects

[@toddgallo1759]

Luke 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. Yes blessed are they that follow the CC, I mean that hear the catechism and keep it, I mean that follow traditions. Crud I mean that HEAR THE WORD OF GOD AND KEEP IT. God's word is alive, it creates life, that's why God spoke everything into existence, his words create life.

[@datalore8270]

@@mikeoxmaul1788 This objection is addressed, thoroughly, in the video.

[@datalore8270]

@@toddgallo1759 This is a common misunderstanding, and it's what happens if you try to interpret the Bible yourself. Jesus isn't putting Mary down. He's saying what makes her blessed is that she obeyed God. Your second mistake is in how you define God's Word. It is not just the Bible. The Bible is one way God has revealed Himself and His teachings. It is not the only way. God bless.

[@doinic09]

@@mikeoxmaul1788 go to 16:11 in the video

[@jeffbraun7018]

Thanks, Joe. This was a very thorough explanation of the assumption. As a re-vert this year, I really appreciate that the work you do.

[@Crabpeople66]

Great points and video! Love the deep dives

[@fdmuaddi]

Great presentation as usual. Thank you so much for your hard work. God bless you and your family.

[@ToddJambon]

They would call the mother of a king the Queen Mother in biblical times. If Jesus is a King, then it stands to reason that Mary is the Queen Mother. Also, we know that Elijah was assumed into Heaven. And during the Transfiguration, we see Moses as a person; so it stands to reason that he was assumed into Heaven (unless God just allowed him to look like a human at that event). So I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that Mary was assumed into Heaven. Wouldn't the Mother of Our Lord be just as worthy of assumption, if not more, as Moses and Elijah were?

[@tony1685]

God's Word gives us the rules -- Bible shows us that a person dies and waits for the judgement, which is at the 2nd coming of Christ. all exemptions are noted: Moses was resurrected, Elijah and Enoch were translated. catholicism doesn't follow God's Word, which is dangerous and warned against in Scripture. then they build theology out of it, which is definitely a deception. this is what happens when a system doesn't even follow God's basics.

[@peterzinya1]

@@tony1685 Mary is really Diana. Dianas feast day is today. Anyone can look it up. Dont take my word for anything.

[@ToddJambon]

@@tony1685 Can you quote the scripture passage that says God's Word gives us the rules? Catholicism absolutely follows God's Word. And I would actually rather have you refute points in Joe's video than try to correct me. I don't know how you can deny everything Joe is saying here. He's quoting tons of Scripture in his video.

[@MagnificatForever15]

​@@tony1685if God "translated" (assumed) Elijah and Enoch, why would he not do it for his own mother? Use that noggin!

[@datalore8270]

@@ToddJambon That's easy. Tony and Peter don't watch the videos. Otherwise they'd be at risk of learning something.

[@EpoRose1]

Little known fact- the chapel at Fort Duquesne in Pittsburgh was dedicated to Our Lady of the Assumption of the Beautiful River on April 16, 1754.

[@Maranatha99]

Thus is now called Fort Pitt. That was the very beginning of Pittsburgh.

[@ModernLady]

What I love about Shameless papery is that he presents his videos in an assey-style. It’s so “ordered” that I can’t help love it. If Moses and Elija could be taken up to heaven, why not Mary? Was she not even closer to God?

[@TheEverymanChap]

Excellent video! The connections between Mary and the ark and the temple gate are astounding!

[@hglundahl]

49:52 Ezechiel 44! I was trying to find that reference in the Psalms that other day! Thank you! Hope you had a Blessed Feast!

[@marcondespaulo]

Praised be Jesus! I missed a short intro to "what is a dogma". I know it, you know it, but we can't assume the whole internet knows. So, a dogma is something that all Catholics believe, in all places and all times. So, there are no "new dogmas". Not to confuse with the declaration or better, proclamation of a dogma. That is when a Pope declares something that was believed since the beginning is true. This is one of the few instances when papal infalibility occurs.

It was always believed just better defined for a dogma as St John Henry Newman described the Development of Doctrine. We are in the Marian Age as she will destroy and crush the head of Satan for all time yes there have been battles but She Mary and her Immaculate Heart will Triumphed.

[@Robert-bm2jr]

I learn so much from your videos. I had to go to lunch about halfway through this video, and I couldn't wait to tell my wife what I had already learned. Thank you, and may our Lord bless you for all that you do for his church.

[@Democracyofthedead]

Joe, you didn’t even mention 1 Kings 2 and Psalm 45, both of which are powerful arguments for the Assumption, as both are referenced in the New Testament.

[@rlr0313]

Amazing! Thank you Joe! I will be watching this many times!

[@naderhermiz7069]

God bless you and your wonderful argument

[@iwansaputra1890]

bad mariology lead to bad christology

[@andrewpearson1903]

I saw a screenshot of a low churcher who admitted that without the Immaculate Conception, Jesus would have logically inherited a "sin nature" (a concept from popular Protestantism) from the Virgin Mary

[@cathycabricesm]

I am Protestant but this video does an excellent job explaining the Catholic view of Mary. Thank you. I will certainly reflect on this. Also. It would be great if you do a video on the intercession of Mary. I think it cancels the blood sacrifice of Jesus but I want to know the Catholic standing on that.

[@ModernLady]

Why would it cancel the blood sacrifice?

[@lightbread201]

When you ask your parents and friends to pray for you does that cancel the sacrifice of Jesus? I don’t understand where you get that idea

[@GenX-Trad]

I think it’s covered in his video “Does Devotion to Mary Draw Us Away From Jesus”. You might want to watch all of his videos on Mary. I’ve been back in the church for a year after being an Evangelical and had to reorient my mind and soul back to our Mother after being fed counter arguments by Protestantism. Praying for you!

[@ElizabethMiller-pe7qc]

I think Joe already has a few videos on that. Some are also about Saint intercession, but it falls into a similar category. If you want to check them out, here are a few titles, “A New Argument for Praying to the Saints” “Why Catholics Make Such a Big Deal about Mary” “Proving that the Saints in Heaven Hear Our Prayer” “Does Devotion to Mary Draw Us Away from Jesus?”

[@fnkrodigaz1841]

Think about the wedding at Cana. What is Jesus allowing us to see in that story. And no, calling her woman is not rude. Remember that did not happen in our modern day. In a loving way towards sinners, she helped (intercesion) 1st miracle of Jesus. She continues to do so till this very day from a heavenly position next to Jesus. I don't know about you but as a sinner I need all the help I can get (intercesion). ❤️‍🔥✝️🙏🕊

[@NuLeif]

Sharing with me protestant friends. You covered a wide range of evidence in a “short” time span. Thank you.

[@HallowMas-m3s]

Superb video, Joe! Easily the best apologetic for the Assumption of our Lady I have ever seen. Poor little gavin ortlund must be running for the hills.

[@eplongmichael8880]

As expected, this podcast strengthens my conviction about what the Church holds true.

[@KennyBurchard]

Great stuff, Joe. Regarding Jesus sharing his authority to judge in heaven, there is CLEAR teaching in Paul's first letter to the Corinthians that this is exactly what goes on in the heavenly places (and will go on there forever!) He writes, regarding those Corinthians taking one another to the civil law courts, that they should instead sort out their issues among the leaders of the Church. And why? What is his rationale for why this ought to be the practice NOW? He writes in 1 Cor. 6:3-5 - "3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things about this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?" In the same letter, he assumes that he NOW has the authority to actually judge immoral believers, and turn them over to Satan for the destruction of their bodies so that their souls can be saved. He writes: 1 Cor. 5:2-4 - "2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3 For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[ so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord." The fact is that Jesus shares his authority with his Church in both heaven and on earth. The N.T. is dripping with this motif in every place you look. Mat. 18:18; Lk. 10:19; Jn. 20:22; 2 Tim. 2:12; Eph. 2:6, Rev. 3:21, etc. etc.

[@garyr.8116]

Bravo Joe! You've managed to condense in 1hr what I believe our Protestant brethren are sorely missing in understanding when the entirety of the Word is considered ESPECIALLY Christs' Promises!

[@INRIVivatChristusRex]

Happy Solemnity!

[@HarleyGirl75]

Excellent teaching. Thank you, Joe!

[@BigDaddyCatholic]

Phenomenal content once again Joe! So good. Thank you.

[@lucillemasters6791]

Thank you Joe, that was awesome!

[@Rogue0572]

Another reason why the traditions on the Assumption were sparse, or even conflicted on minor points, could be due to the idea that Mary's whereabouts were kept under wraps for her protection. The Romans would have loved to have captured her. It would have been the ultimate blackmail and humiliation of the Christians. It could just be that she was kept hush hush and only known by John and a very select few. These tombs of Mary (because I believe there are two that claim the title) served as decoys or were areas were she was planning on settling down and were built pre-emptively. Either way, Scripture is clear that Satan was on the prowl for her. When she does die, or at the proper time and the end of her life, then only a select few would have known about her assumption. After all, the original Ark of the Covenant is hidden away so much so that nobody knows where it is today. If the traditions were precise then the enemies of the Jewish people would have unearthed it. Similarly, the oral traditions concerning Mary could likewise have been kept deliberately limited.

[@garyr.8116]

@Rogue0572 - great points! yes indeed 'the dragon' was angry at her and " pursued the woman" (rev 12:13) but she "was given two wings of a great eagle" to escape himv.14 He still tried to take her out (v.15) but she was given help to thwart his volly (v.16) Now here's the kicker - v.17 the dragon STILL ENRAGED makes war on her AND HER OFFSPRING (those who would Keep God's commands AND KEEP her as our Mother!!!!!!), thus FULFILLING Genesis 3:15 - cover to cover in the scriptures, the Ending (Rev 12:17) Shown from the Beginning (Gen 3:15), which is How we know this is from God ! (Isaiah 46:10 *): **I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, 'My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.**

[@nochillwill5903]

Now I understand why some Protestants hate the Book of Revelation

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

Ever hear them quote 2 Corinthians? Me neither.

[@clivejungle6999]

Some Romans believe in the Co-Redemptrix. Do you really want to play this game considering how unorthodox Roman practices can become around the world?

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

@@clivejungle6999 Some heretics believe in bible alone. So what? And you dare to talk about variations in CATHOLIC beliefs? AYKM? AT LEAST we have set doctrines and a Christ-instituted authority to settle disputes. Bibleists have only the council of church hopping.

[@TJMM864]

Sigh .. words of hate among Christians everywhere. If we were more concerned about working out our OWN salvation , with fear and trembling ...

[@eddardgreybeard]

@@clivejungle6999 I'll agree that Co-Redemptrix is heretical, but it doesn't intend to be. We still need to correct those that embrace that teaching. It's a very misleading teaching.

[@anthonyporpora4786]

Can I say something? Not only you have not disrespect Protestants, but also honor Our Mother in Heaven 😍! She happy because she loves everyone even Protestant, so make Our Mother happy , you can imagine Our Lord Right now preparing a throne and big crown for you my brother! What a beautiful gift you have and patience and kindness! I have to pray more I need that charity!

[@jntwyatt]

Brilliant and insightful. Thanks for this. 👍🏻 Further to what you explained about Protestants having a problem with calling Mary “Queen of Heaven”, then why don’t they also have an issue with the title “King of Kings” for Jesus? Afterall, that was a title given to Nebuchadnezzar. The fact is, there is no pagan copyright protection on the titles.

[@michaelhettrick8510]

John McArthur confuses the Assumption and the Ascension in the first sentence of his argument. How the heck are we supposed to take this guy seriously?

[@christopherventura]

I personally think that man is a Moron. Idk how people are going to the ecclesiastical gatherings he organizes. I’m sure the 10% he taxes makes it all worth it for him.

[@SeanusAurelius]

That's actually on Joe. He claims he's presenting Protestant's best cases and then chooses clips of people making basic terminological mistakes. You don't see him putting in clips of Gavin Ortlund calmly explaining that there are early Christian lists of people assumed into Heaven and none of them have Mary in them.

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

Don’t forget that some protestants believe in the rapture. Isn’t the rapture like being taken into heaven with your body and soul???

[@shamelesspopery]

Yes, it seems very strange to be theologically comfortable with the idea that all Christians will be bodily "raptured" while thinking it's evil or idolatrous if God "raptures" one Christian in particular.

[@dananderson6697]

​@@shamelesspopery The difference is that, whether correctly interpreted or not, scripture has *numerous* references explicitly saying God *will* take believers to heaven. There is not one single verse anywhere to suggest that he *did* take just that one, way back when. It is as if you guys *purposefully* refuse to represent your opponents correctly.

[@Maranatha99]

​@@dananderson6697agreed; the only 2 mentions are Enoch & zelijah

[@dananderson6697]

@@Maranatha99 Sorry, I deleted my first response: it was one directed at someone else with regard to the Apocryphal books. You are correct, of course. Every other statement about bodily taking anyone to heaven is described as something that *will* happen, not something that has happened. In the case of Mary, the bodily assumption doctrine is not widespread or even mentioned for hundreds of years after she had been buried. There is literally nothing else to go on here for the Catholic but "trust me, bro!"

[@thebenzaga]

@@dananderson6697you say the catholic misrepresented the rapture believers then you go on to say that all the catholics have to go off of is “trust me bro.” Hypocrisy

[@marissabuyao2092]

Happy Feast Day of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary!❤

[@doublem1971]

Another good video Joe. Thank you!

[@Ignatiusofantioch87]

This was a fantastic episode

[@clgmafnas]

My understanding is fairly simple... if the Blessed Mother was born sinless, and remained sinless throughout her life, she would be "assumed" into heaven. For if, "the wages of sin is death," then our Blessed Mother is exempt. This is a way of Christ honoring His mother's lifetime of obedience, servitude and faithfulness.

[@dr.tafazzi]

But by that argument wouldn't Jesus have somehow avoided bodily death?

[@srich7503]

@@dr.tafazzi taken from Catholic Answers… God can save a person in multiple ways, and Mary was saved by God in more than one sense. Salvation from the eternal consequences of sin only comes into focus with the ministry of Jesus. Prior to this, the Bible is overwhelmingly concerned with salvation from temporal calamities (war, disease, famine, death, and so on). We may refer to this as temporal salvation. This seems to be what Mary has in mind. She says she rejoices in God her Savior, “for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden-for behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed; for he who is mighty has done great things for me.” God has thus saved her from a low estate and given her an exalted one to be remembered and honored forever. This is reinforced as Mary then lists multiple kinds of temporal salvation (“He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts, he has put down the mighty from their thrones, and exalted those of low degree; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent empty away. He has helped his servant Israel” Luke 1:51-54). It is also suggested by the parallel canticle in which Zechariah proclaims the praise of God as temporal Savior (Luke 1:68-75). There is also a sense in which God saves Mary from sin: He saved her from ever contracting it. Theologians sometimes compare the way God rescued Mary from sin to stopping a person from falling into a pit as opposed to pulling him out of a pit. Both can be described as saving a person from a pit, but which would you prefer? Being saved from ever committing sin is a more excellent form of salvation than rescuing a person from sin after he has fallen into it. Thus Mary was redeemed, in view of what Christ would do on the cross, in a way that prevented her from falling into sin, and so the Catechism refers to her as “the most excellent fruit of redemption” (CCC 508). Peace!!!

[@461weavile]

@@dr.tafazzi I've thought about this, too. I've come to the conclusion that, no, having no sin doesn't prevent death, it's only having sin that causes death. If a homeless man walked into a McDonalds and asked if they'd give him anything for free, they might not; he didn't eat anything, so he doesn't have to pay. Somebody who does order something will have to pay for his meal under normal circumstances, but if that homeless man waited out on the sidewalk before going in, he might be able to ask somebody walking by to buy him a sandwich. A generous person who agrees to it might not even buy anything for himself to eat, but still ends up paying. (If the cashier would've given him something for free, that's technically the owner paying for it, so the analogy still stands.) This is actually a central doctrine of Christianity; if you look closely at the verbiage, the word "wages" easily implies some sort of payment, and Christ voluntarily pays the price for all men, even though He had no bill of his own that would ever come due. Christ descended to hell so we wouldn't have to.

[@garyr.8116]

@@dr.tafazzi "But by that argument wouldn't Jesus have somehow avoided bodily death?" Jesus CHOSE to die ( I though you knew the scriptures - John 10:18 "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”")

[@dr.tafazzi]

@@garyr.8116 sure, I don't see how that is relevant to what happens to his body at the end of his life tho.

[@deliefiore]

Great teaching, thank you!

[@BensWorkshop]

Many thanks Joe.

[@The_2_Witnesses]

Joe, I really appreciate all that you do for the edification of the Church. Your Holy Bible study videos are very informative and retrospectively revelational, especially in our ‘reformed’ age of apostasy.

[@wizskers]

One of the best not the best detailed and thorough explanation of the Assumption of the Mother of God, Theotokos!❤

[@James-ll3jb]

Protestants assume sola scriptura is correct. It's not.

[@JoAnnFuir]

Sola Scriptura is a Protestant doctrine. Jesus never said that the Bible alone is sufficient. The Bible didn't exist when Jesus went to Heaven. It wasn't completed until after He was gone. The Apostles spread the Christian faith by word of mouth. Oral Tradition preceded the Bible. Obviously, the man-made concept of Sola Scriptura is false. We need both the Oral Traditions and the Bible.

[@robbygracio6867]

why??😂

[@James-ll3jb]

@@robbygracio6867 Because (1) the parables and sayings of Christ were in existence and believed sacred before the NT was written down an (2) There is nothing in the Scriptures which says Truth uttered via the Holy Spirit is confined to the Scriptures and (3) Scripture itself enjoins us to obey everything, all tradition, taught and given by apostolic authority whether orally or in writing.

[@JoAnnFuir]

@@James-ll3jb Well stated!

[@James-ll3jb]

@@JoAnnFuir We try....!

[@tonyl3762]

Even Shoemaker backed away from labeling the earlier accounts as "gnostic" in his latest book. So we should stop repeating that.

[@mariatr492]

Happy Holy Day of Opportunity to fulfill an Obligation! (as the assistant pastor at our parish says lol)

[@awilliams619]

Great video! Thank you for this today.

[@jabelltulsa]

Great video Joe. Thank you.

[@mbberry135]

I have read several "Dormitions of Mary" stories. After reading 1, You'll quickly realize that early Church believed in her Assumption. Most were written before 500 A.D., if not all, so were are talking a catalogue of early Church legends surrounding a belief. Not something that was entirely invented in the 20th century. Sincerely in Xto Mike B. B. From Philly, P.A. U.S.A.

[@MossEYE-]

Was it perhaps written between 300-500 when the pagans that had a goddess queen was forced into Christianity in Rome?

[@mbberry135]

@@MossEYE- Clearly no.

[@SECPETE1]

Great Video... but I would like point something out that I think gets overlooked. The ark of the covenant & the tent of meeting were never found & there's a connection we can make 2 Mac 2:4-8 that the ark of the covenant was sealed in a cave. Mary body was sealed in a tomb. Yet John sees them both in heaven Rev 11:19 - 12:2. There's more I could add to this, but the point is that this can only strengthen the Dogma of the Assumption of the B.V.M. 4 It was also in the writing that the prophet, having received an oracle, ordered that the tent and the ark should follow with him, and that he went out to the mountain where Moses had gone up and had seen the inheritance of God. 5 And Jeremiah came and found a cave, and he brought there the tent and the ark and the altar of incense, and he sealed up the entrance. 6 Some of those who followed him came up to mark the way, but could not find it. 7 When Jeremiah learned of it, he rebuked them and declared: “The place shall be unknown until God gathers his people together again and shows his mercy. 8 And then the Lord will disclose these things, and the glory of the Lord and the cloud will appear, as they were shown in the case of Moses, and as Solomon asked that the place should be specially consecrated.” The Holy Bible (Revised Standard Version; Second Catholic Edition, 2 Mac 2:4-8).

[@HunnysPlaylists]

As I keep pointing out, all attcks on Mary or The Church are from a place of spteful competition.

[@larrywells5908]

Mary is the new ark and also the new Eve minus the stain of sin and sin itself. She would not be subject to the penalties placed on Eve like pain in childbirth and death.

[@anonymouscrank]

A tremendously thorough explanation of the Assumption. My only question is was there controversy in the Church that made it necessary for a formal definition in 1950?

[@geoffjs]

I understand that after the trauma of two world wars, Pope Pius XII thought it appropriate to raise hope by proclaiming an existing belief that wasn’t necessarily being questioned.

[@josephoconnell2945]

De Maria Numquam Satis { of Mary there is never enough }

[@grantc9012]

Why are you even giving John MacArthur the time of day?

[@aWitness33]

Because Catholics need their catechism and proper doctrine too. Many of us left as teenagers but also because Catholics are all over the internet, too. We hear what that man says as well since he’s given much airtime. People should take note when an alleged Godly person is given television airtime or podcast interview circuits it’s because the enemy has no fear of them and is in fact using them. God bless you.

[@justinking3558]

John MacArthur is super popular with calvinists. Good person to refute

[@midairfortress]

Because 1) he boasts that more than half his congregation is “ex-Catholics”; 2) he is a devoted and influential ant-Catholic with a large following, including hundreds of pastors he has trained through Master’s Seminary; 3) he has an entire catalog of anti-Catholic sermons that are filled with blatant misrepresentations of Catholic doctrine, yet he can sound extremely convincing which makes him dangerous to poorly catechized Catholics.

[@aWitness33]

@@midairfortressYes, what you cited more eloquently to than I. Ave Maria.

[@marvelator8303]

Because millions of other people *already* give him the time of day. He is an incredibly popular speaker against Catholicism. Just because his arguments are ludicrous, it simply does not follow that they don't warrant a firm response. He scandalizes thousands upon thousands of people away from the True Church of Christ.

[@cynthiax56]

QUEENSHIP AND ASSUMPTION Revelation 12:1 A great sign appeared in the heavens, a woman clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet and on her head a CROWN of 12 stars. The woman of Revelation is the woman who gives birth to the male child that will rule the nations. The male child is obviously Jesus and the woman is Mary

[@atgred]

‭‭Psalms‬ ‭45:9-17 “Kings' daughters were among thy HONORABLE women: upon thy right hand did stand the QUEEN (Rev. 12) in gold of Ophir. Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; So shall the KING GREATLY DESIRE THY BEAUTY: for HE IS THY LORD; and worship thou him (only). And the daughter of Tyre shall be there with a gift (Lk. 1:28); even the rich among the people shall ENTREAT THY FAVOUR (intercession). The king's daughter is all GLORIOUS WITHIN (immaculate): her clothing is of wrought gold. SHE shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework: the virgins (religious women) her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee. With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace (heaven). Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children (mother of the christians) whom thou mayest make princes (bishops) in all the earth. I WILL make THY NAME to be REMEMBERED IN ALL GENERATIONS (Lk. 1:48) therefore shall the people PRAISE THEE FOR EVER AND EVER.”

[@PuzzlesC4M]

Johnny Mac at the 20 minute mark with the Holy Roman Empire… wow. To quote a famous tweet, “Go home.”

[@drewd5811]

Happy feast day!

[@tomgervasi4653]

just tell a Protestant to stop reading Left Behind if they don't believe God can Assume people, body and soul lol

[@R.C.A.T]

😂

[@jaelee7309]

Happy fiest day Assumption of Mary.

[@iwearsmcok]

Great timing!

[@bornagain9192]

I notice how desperately so many search for what they wish to be there yet is not!

[@bobbydank5575]

Good video. I am a Protestant and yes, I can see the evidence for assumption and I see the arguments. But it was when you got the ark part that convinced me. It would make sense that God took her body because if it was here, It could be worshipped and not God. So yes, you have convinced me that Mary's bodily assumption is possible. In fact, I'll go so far as to say it is likely. But it also strengthen my belief that Mary should NOT be worshipped and there are many who want to.

[@MrPeach1]

dang that is high praise.

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

No one is worshiping Mary

[@bobbydank5575]

@@femaleKCRoyalsFan You may not be. But you don't speak for everyone. We all said so.

[@shamelesspopery]

Fascinating! That's actually very similar to the argument that the Swiss Reformer Heinrich Bullinger made - he believed in the Assumption at least in part to protect the early Christians from idolatry.

[@461weavile]

@@femaleKCRoyalsFan Yeah, I would also not say that "no one" is worshipping Mary. Nobody that's a member of the Church is worshipping Mary, but there are probably people out there that do.

[@SaintLeb]

Mary, our mother in Heaven please pray for us ❤❤

[@tony1685]

Mary is not Deity, not even alive -- Christians pray to God Alone, friend. nothing in Scripture supports a dead person hearing us.

[@garyr.8116]

@@tony1685 Sad Tony still denying Christ word at John 6:50 - calling 'dead' those whom Christ proclaims ALIVE in Him (Ephesians 2:5). Tony Tony Tony - how can you claim to even speak for 'Christians' when you yourself DO NOT believe Christs Word ?

[@461weavile]

@@garyr.8116 Is this that same Tony that keeps showing up and spewing anti-Christian Saturday nonsense? I can never tell if it's that one or one that might actually act like a Christian and accept a gentle correction. Gentle mother, teach us wisdom and love.

[@Mickycho1964]

@@tony1685 The Mount Tabor transfiguration is a "selfie" shot in the bible of Jesus Christ talking to couple "death" fellows, Moses and Elijah. The photographers were Saint John and Saint Peter. Watch out your mouth and your words for all the Saints in heaven are listen to you... and are interceding for us all.

[@garyr.8116]

@@461weavile yep - I've had numerous in-depth discussions with him and he is intelligent so there is no doubt he at least understands the Catholic perspective yet he continues to misrepresent. I can tolerate disagreement, and I have no problem with him showing his position and (rational) argument - but to continue to misrepresent Catholics is abominable !

[@jessemessy990]

Solomon shares his throne with his mother queen bethseba. Protestantanism is heresy.

[@michaelbaker2552]

It never ceases to amaze me that some people hate the Catholic Church so much that they are willing to debase and demean the Mother of God to stoke that hate. You have to wonder how Jesus Christ would feel about his Mother being treated this way.

[@kimrose2288]

Hi Joe! Your biggest fan from the Eucharist Congress here! Maybe you could do an episode on this: A fall-away Catholic had been doing podcasts on her new-found religion😢. She says we Catholics need to stop focusing on our sin ( as this wad apparently psychologically harmful to her, being equated with being bad) and realize that she is now a saint😮 because she had accepted Jesus. How do you untangle this ball of misguidedness? Food for thought. GOD BLESS.

[@bernardauberson7218]

Le Christ rejettera tous ceux qui méprisent Sa Mère ! Les protestants devraient bien faire attention et La respecter et la saluer, sinon ils passeront pour des mufles .

[@JoAnnFuir]

I agree! If we don't respect the Mother of Christ, we can't expect Him to be pleased with us on Judgement Day. If you love Jesus, you should love His Mother. ❤

[@ChaChaDancin]

To know the history (including pre-15th century) is to be Catholic. That’s my conclusion.

[@ElessarofGondor]

Same. The silence of many evangelical practices in history is deafening.

[@ucheodozor4147]

Dear Protestant apologists, stop this silly hide and seek game you folks are playing. When a Catholic teaching is squarely domiciled and clearly spelt out in scripture and Church Fathers, you turn a blind eye and look elsewhere. But when a Catholic teaching is indirectly deriveable from scripture and ancient testaments through logic and critical thinking, it is then you shout from the rooftops: "Not in Bible; and not in the early Fathers!"😅 Who are you guys deceiving? Come off this silly little game.

[@ContendingEarnestly]

*When a Catholic teaching is squarely domiciled and clearly spelt out in scripture and Church Fathers, you turn a blind eye and look elsewhere.* What distinct catholic teaching is 'squarely' in the bible?

[@Spiritof76Catholic]

The sad thing about protestantism is they worship 16th century men as false idols or a new idol created last week.

[@mcfamininvst]

All protestants wants to go to heaven and preach about rupture with them being lifted alive but mocks Mary's Assumption... If it happens to Mary, it is theologically wrong, but if it happens to them, it is divine will? The hipocrisy 😂

[@felipeg2878]

A very rich exposition. I'm specially fascinated by correlations and prefigurations.

[@rnhmbover63]

This is the angriest I’ve seen Joe Heschmeyer during a video😂

[@461weavile]

When somebody insults your mother, it's hard not to have a visceral emotional response.

[@rnhmbover63]

@@461weavile 📠

[@edweber9847]

Jesus obeys the 10 Commandments to the maximum. This includes “honoring is mother.” There is no greater honor than to sit with God in Heaven. In addition, Kings of Israel since Solomon appointed their mothers as “queen mother.” Jesus sits “on his father David’s throne and will rule over the House of Jacob forever.” So it’s logical that Jesus would appoint his mother “queen mother.”

[@Chris-t4i]

When Mary was DENIED by the Lord GOD Jesus 20He was told, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see You.” 21But He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear the word of God and carry it out.” 22One day Jesus said to His disciples, “Let us cross to the other side of the lake.” So He got into a boat with them and set out. (Luke 8:20-21) NOTICE to CATHOLICS: The Bible does NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT say, “But He later came out and called her Mother” …………… UNDERSTOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD ???

[@joelancon7231]

Regina Caeli Laetare Alleluia!

[@jvlp2046]

We only need LOGICAL REASONING, which unfortunately some don't have... That is the reason why God made Mankind above the Animal Kingdom... If the WORD of God (Written Inspired Scripture) is "INSUFFICIENT" (Incomplete), how can it REPROOF, CORRECT, and INSTRUCT in Righteousness that the Man of God may be PERFECT, thoroughly FURNISHED unto all GOOD WORKS???... (ref. 2 Timothy 3:16) "If sinful (Evil) people know how to give their children good things, how much more God our Father in Heaven"... (ref. Matt. 7:11)... With this passage, will God/YHWH give INSUFFICIENT (Incomplete) "WORD of God" (Inspire Scripture) for those who seek God, His TRUTH, and Righteousness???... NOPE, it must be SUFFICIENT/COMPLETE... As a good old saying, "Before a Person knows something is INCOMPLETE (insufficient)... one must know the COMPLETE (sufficient) first." Facts and Truth of the matters, Biblically and Logically speaking... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.

[@lyraaguila835]

Love the content.

[@andrewscotteames4718]

I prefer to attribute MacArthur’s lies to ignorance rather than malice. But I’m amazed at how stupid he sounds when I do that.

[@Maranatha99]

I prefer not to call anybody stupid

[@bernardauberson7218]

This false « pastor »J. McArthur, is an heretic, all he said is fake ! His scorn about the Mother of God is blasphemy : the archangel Gabriel said to her : « The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. Luke 1 ; 35 ) Exactly what this false pastor denigrate ! He doesn’t 45:46 understand what he read , or, he is an insane liard. It’s typical an heretic . Those who depreciate His Mother, the Christ will shoot them away!

[@ShaneShelldriick]

I think the root problem is that the Catholic Mary and the Protestant Mary are two different women. The former is a mascot for Catholic soteriology and the latter is a mascot for Protestant soteriology. In Catholic soteriology, a person is progressively made righteous through continuously saying "Yes" to God. Once a person is molded by grace into a nature characterized by default Yes to God, that person is considered "finally saved" and able to walk right into Heaven, right past the bouncer, with no need of ID or purgation. Hence, the "Assumption of Mary", who is held up as an earthly example of someone who attained such sanctity. However, in Protestant soteriology, everybody falls short of that standard. Therefore we all require a declarative sort of forensic justification if we are to be justified at all. A pristine resurrection body is what enables one to breathe the rarified air of Heavenly holiness. Hence, no earthly body, not even Mary's, is capable of that. Hence, no Assumption. Therefore the Protestant Mary is a mascot for "A wicked sinner just like the rest of us who was saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone" Very different mascots to express very different hopes and aspirations

[@Maranatha99]

Well described, but I don't understand why u use the word mascot for that.

[@ShaneShelldriick]

@@Maranatha99 because, strictly speaking, the Historical Mary isn't "retrievable". There are no time machines, and even if there were, there wouldn't necessarily be a way to settle the issue. After all, not even a corpse would contradict the Assumption, given that all sorts of biological organisms shed "shells or skins" while continuing to live in bodily form. So each side enthusiastically waves its Mary of Faith in air as the competing theologians duke it out on the more abstract playing field of soteriology

[@marvelator8303]

​@@ShaneShelldriick I think the one caveat here is that one of these views has the historical endorsement of all three of the major ancient Churches, and the other view can only be inferred through various theological assumptions, whether they are correct or incorrect. My point here is only to gesture to the fact that it's not *merely* a matter of soteriological quibbling. One view has a historic testimony, even if it's "not early enough", and the other view has at best historical silence-- but in actuality, it was positively denied through most of Church history.

[@Maranatha99]

@@ShaneShelldriick I'm sorry, but I don't understand what u r trying to communicate

[@ShaneShelldriick]

@@Maranatha99 Mary is not physically in our presence. She is not directly accessible to us. Therefore she is something of an "idea" or a symbol to us. Symbols representing opposing sides in a competition, whether football games or theological debates, are often called "mascots". This is why I used that word

[@HumanDignity10]

This was good - thanks Joe!

[@jayslayzz9978]

I love being Catholic. I will be from the time of my infant baptism until my dying day and beyond.

[@WeakestAvenger]

I don't see the Assumption of Mary as strengthening our hope in our own resurrection, since that hope is founded on Christ's resurrection. It is difficult for me to see that Mary's Assumption would add much to my hope after that. So I just think that partocular argument is weak and maybe even downplays Christ's resurrection.

[@MrPeach1]

Why would it not be helpful to see a raised glorified creature like you or me. Kind of like a prototype of what you can expect one day?

[@WeakestAvenger]

@@MrPeach1 Because others have already been assumed into heaven, and my hope in resurrection is founded in Christ's resurrection. And although he is the Creator, he is also a resurrected human. His human nature has been raised and glorified. So Mary's assumption just doesn't really add anything to my hope. I'm not arguing against the Assumption of Mary here, though. I'm just saying that that particular argument doesn't really do anything for me.

[@srich7503]

@@WeakestAvenger Maybe you dont need that hope. Many who find it hard to relate to the “God”-man of Jesus’ resurrection may not relate like you and I. Even further, there are those that may not relate to Mary, who the church declares did not suffer from concupiscent, cannot relate to her so the church shows them the saints who did suffer to help them on their journey of “hope”. Christ’s resurrection was certainly our “first fruit”. “First” suggest there are others in succession.

[@Mickycho1964]

I think you need a heart made of flesh. Even Jesus Christ wept when Lazarus died. He was so distressed that called him out of the death. Do you think JC would just look away when the time of His mother came to die? No! He did not looked away He did even more than what He did for His friend Lazarus. Don't you think so? Check all the old prophets that were taken up to the heavens... Moses, Elijah, Daniel.... Don't confuse the resurrection at the end of times VS. the coming to His kingdom at the end of your own time.

[@WeakestAvenger]

@@Mickycho1964 Hi, there. I'm not entirely sure what your point was, but I don't think you actually addressed my comment. I didn't say anything about the emotionality surrounding Mary's end, nor did I even dispute her assumption into heaven. All I said was that the argument that her assumption should give us more hope in our own resurrection doesn't hold water for me, because my hope is based on Christ's own resurrection, after which Mary's assumption would add very little, if any, to my hope in the resurrection. I'm also not saying that her assumption would not be a wonderful thing, showing how Christ loves and honors her. But passages like 1 Cor 15 and Romans 6 anchor our hope in Christ's resurrection, and that is enough for me. Maybe I will think differently someday, but for now I think I have enough hope in the resurrection irrespective of Mary's assumption.