Protools Carbon Brainworx battles UA Luna Apollo UA Plugins

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[@jodysloan6054]

I'm using an Apollo with ProTools, so I sort of have the best of both worlds. I like using the Unison plugs on the front end (Neve1084 is outstanding IMO), then blending UA plugs and Slate, Waves, McDSP, SoundToys.... on the back end. I find myself using the Unison stuff so much these days, that I'm ignoring the great hardware in my setup (Vintech, API, UA6176). That's a testament to how good some of the plugs are these days. I have not played with Luna yet. Once they get the multi out issues resolved, I'll do a few sessions in Luna to compare to ProTools.

[@peterbondmusic]

The UAD analog emulations --- the ones that UAD themselves develop (the ones in the UAD plugins manual) are better than the Brainworx emulations overall pretty consistently IMO. Brainworx does make some great stuff, but I'll chose UAD every time for the typical analog emulations of compressors and channel strips.

[@keysbythenumbers]

Barry, your a hoot, too funny!

[@perhoier2881]

Good video. Just one important thing to mention. Yes, Brainworx writes plugins for the UAD platform (so does Softube, Sonnox and Antares btw.). They don’t write plugins for Universal Audio under their name. UA writes their own plugins. The so-called UA developed UAD plugins, and are unique to the UAD platform and optimized specifically for it. They are the essential ones when we talk about UAD plugins. The Neve, Studer, Lexicon, SSL, ones, that has this seemingly unique sound and modelling. And they are not developed by Brainworx and cant be found in native versions, apart from a few of them in LUNA.

[@davidcamarda8723]

This is a good point. It would be interesting to see a complete list of plugins and their authors.

[@davidcamarda8723]

UA. UA has more interface options with varying price points that fit almost any budget, vs a single option from Avid, Carbon. And, UA is all the rage in small / home studios or the 'prosumer' market. Another thing to consider is what type of work you do. Film, foley, adr? PT all the way. Btw, I am a fresh Plugin Alliance convert, thanks to one of your previous videos. Not because you plugged them, but you were convincing enough for me to try them out for 14 day. And woa, gorgeous sounding amp sims, channel strips, eq's.. Great vid as always, love the channel. More plz.

[@todddammit4628]

The reason the Townsend Lab uses 2 tracks is because it records both the front diaphragm and the back diaphragm separately. Typically a mic will merge those two signals within the mic itself, or an external power supply. The amount you blend between the two plates gives you your polar pattern. By recording both of them separate, you can change your polar pattern after you've recorded the track. This also I'm assuming helps with the accuracy of modeling specific mics and recreating their particular proximity effects, phase relationships and polar patterns.

[@BarryJohns]

Good to know, and very interesting!

[@davidcamarda8723]

This is actually kind of huge. At least in theory. Like using multiple lenses on a camera so you can adjust the depth of field after the shot is taken.

[@todddammit4628]

@@davidcamarda8723 More like racking focus or racking apertures but yeah same concept.

[@BarryJohns]

OK we got some camera boys in the house too right?

[@todddammit4628]

@@BarryJohns Lol professional photographer. Audio is the passion, the camera pays the bills haha

[@thelowb]

ProTools user switched to Logic cause I was tired of waiting for Avid to catch up with OS updates. Now about 90% switched over to Luna. Still use logic for some tracking to use virtual drummer but all my mixing is Luna. I think it will take several years but I see recoding studios possibly migrating to Luna. Especially with the console/tape/unison emulation. It’s great.

[@recordman555]

Amen, brother! I've finally picked up my first [unsigned] artist project. I could not have THOUGHT of doing this while still under the thumb of Protools and its "maybe it'll work - or not" platform.

[@dna598]

Mr. Johns always puts a smile in my face. 😂

[@meister_musicus]

Great video! Love your Energy! Keep up the great work! I’m loving the Plug-in Alliance guys - just top quality products. Kind regards from Denmark

[@Dzineboy]

ProTools had been resting on it’s success. However, over the last several years they have really stepped up their game. This is bad news for anyone trying to knock them off as king of the industry for recording and post-production. Like it or not, as long as Avid continues its new current direction, it’s going to be nearly impossible to remove them as the industry standard. As a side note, the Carbon’s ability to record at 32 bits 192 kHz is a massive advantage for professional Sound Designers.

[@BarryJohns]

They have been watching on a role lately.

[@recordman555]

"the last several years"? Are you kidding me? [or yourself] - more like the last few weeks! "The king"? QUACK! Im was college-trained on Protools - ran it in my studio for years. I can NOT legitimately testify as to how it effected my studio business, aside from questionable subscription issues, and a plethora of computer OS dead-ends. Avid can SUCK IT! I'm with Logic, and I cannot see anything in the future to change my mind. Perhaps [perhaps] yYOU might like to look into a different DAW where you're never shut down - never held ransom for payment - and have everything a knowledgeable producer could wish for - - - AT A FRACTION OF THE PRICE! Imagine - a world where you can go to sleep not having that nightmare, "will my session open tomorrow?" Sleep easy. Logic Pro.

[@kennyglod7]

Man, I really enjoyed your videos! Specially the ones where you make it all fun and laid back

[@delmixedit]

If Carbon adds Surround support its going to take the lower end post market by storm!

[@hakangurdol]

After 30 years Carbon wins on my side this Wednesday and stil there is option for Satellite.

[@davidasher22]

Seems like there’s a lot going on “at the end of the day”. 😆

[@SeanHyland]

Vs. Mixbus 32c and no extra mixing plugins necessary

[@SeanHyland]

@@CraigScottFrost True, it does crash a lot. Best to have a machine dedicated solely to Mixbus and constantly make snapshots (save states). The sound is worth it IMO to deal with the headaches.

[@nicorzmusic]

Great video! Information well explained. Thank you!

[@nickperez_]

Brilliant video holy cow

[@kingech_B15]

Love the energy

[@AyeYoYoYooo]

I think if LUNA adds 5.1, 7.1, 9.1 & 11.1 ATMOS mixing, as well as multi outs on VI’s, it can steal tons of AVID users

[@avamomoh]

I think you might be cranking up the saturation or maybe the contrast a little too much, you look like you're on fire. Anyway, one of my favorite videos on your channel so far. GREAT STUFF!!!

[@BarryJohns]

Yea, I probably over did it!

[@JJDPROMEDIAPRODUCTION]

I think at the end of the day, Luna will ( for music studios) will overtake Pro Tools. I think Pro Tools will still be the major play with the Post community. That being said, Logic & Cakewalk still dominates the "music creator" universe. One dark horse is Harrison and their stellar Mixbuss. If Harrison jumps into the audio interface arena, they have the know-how and the brainpower to compete really well. As it stands today, Harrison is the only Daw that sounds close to the late-great Ensoniq Paris DAW. Great post. Keep them coming.

[@keysbythenumbers]

I think I would go with the Carbon option if I was a ProTools user, but I left the platform over a decade ago.

[@MusicOfDreamweaver]

The Brainworx native amps and UADs are different at least. They've redone some stuff. I know there are different IRs at least.

[@bx_dirk2771]

Nope.

[@anthemmakersmusic]

The interface I had came from a repair facility in Malaysia. It was sold as new, but I suspect it was a refurbished unit. I was unhappy about that, but again I can't prove that the facility doesn't sell new and refurbished. However, for 3750 full price I expected only new. I don't no if that is what I received. I realise that sourcing issues occured during the shut down. I wasn't happy and was told complaing violates my ULA. Also didn't like that either. Every company has customers service issues. It's best to admit them correct them and move on. IMHO

[@emanuelchayer1756]

Carbon and protools + brainworks + UAd2 8 core pcie cards ( and a few of their plugs) ;) The price range of plugins though is really not comparable. UA's plugins are extremely expensive.

[@BarryJohns]

Also for the record it did not go unnoticed by me that you ignored my complaint about my being banned to be allowed to post in the DUC, but I’ve noticed that you have chimed in on my other videos. Here is the thing, in all of my videos I’ve been encouraging to Avid products. I paid 4K for Carbon, but I have disdain for Avid for obvious reasons. Based on your lack of response to my point as well as how I’ve been unfairly treated by folks in your roll as well as Avid. I’m not going to let that go, not as much for me, but everyone else that has been treated like me. So to be fair, I’m telling you now, that I will be referencing your comments or lack there of, as well as my treatment by Avid in a future video. I’m not the kind of person who will blindside you or anyone else. I have legitimate complaints and I feel it’s necessary to share those. I don’t mean to cause you any personal issues, but we all must stand by what we do as well as what we don’t do.

[@emanuelchayer1756]

@@BarryJohns Read carefully please. I said it was something I could not comment to, even if I wanted to, without breaching my nda (on the other video where you made that comment in a reply to my comment.). I do understand that you have legitimate complaints, everyone does even in the mod team. I just can't comment on someone being banned and on what reason. And you're not causing me any issues, just know that when I'm commenting outside of the duc it's as a personal point and not with my mod badge. Especially on a non Avid forum (ie KZbin, sometimes I do comment out on Facebook mentioning the duc to help someone out.)

[@dylanhughes4548]

I thought UAD Apollos could run Brainworx and Sonnox plug-ins as well as their own? And maybe Antares as well.

[@BarryJohns]

Only the ones that UAD partners with Brainworx, and those have to be purchased by UAD.

[@dylanhughes4548]

@@BarryJohns Ahh ok so I could use the Brainworx natively or on Carbon and have a full selection from Plugin Alliance but UAD its limited to the DSP only and less selection? Really enjoying all these studio and gear discussion debate videos 👍🏻

[@BarryJohns]

@@dylanhughes4548 thanks Dylan! One of my goals is simply give people things to consider when deciding which way to go. Kona like you’d have when asking in an online forum.

[@CLdwyer]

The unique component of Luna is the addition of their UAD plugins onto native processing within the framework of Luna. Tape. Bus Processing. Etc. As a creation and mixing tool, it gives you a sound in a DAW. That’s conceptually similar to the Burl. They aren’t just giving conversion. They’re embellishing the sound of the conversion. However Luna is using their expertise to mimic useful studio tools. You won’t get that in Protools without developing a template. But the integration of a channel strip on every channel. That’s different. No one has quite been able to do this so well. Luna will need to improve on some visual ui mechanics. It would be nice to lower the percentage scale of the GUI. Maybe diff color schemes. Routing mechanics. Delay compensation. Rewire support to bring in Ableton, Reason & Logic smoother. Perhaps even a browser for files and audio. And the addition of a fully fledged sampler. There’s lots!

[@BarryJohns]

If they did that will all their plugins, they would dominate. My biggest issue is to do a decent size mix you need to buy more DSP, that would be understandable if they were using current Sharc Processors, but they aren’t, they are well over 15 years old.

[@CLdwyer]

@@BarryJohns I agree. I really would like to see more of their lineup running in Luna native!

[@anthemmakersmusic]

Also with UAD pay attention to your the individual signatures for the dates your respective plugins were updated. To see if your getting what everyone else on the same version is getting. No room for elitist thinking!

[@anthemmakersmusic]

What about the UAD octos with Protools and carbon ? Or any other daw just not in real time

[@marklholloway]

🚨Luna may be ‘free’ BUT Luna extensions are not. It’s a double rabbit hole now between UAD DSP plugins + Luna extensions, which extensions run on native CPU and cannot be used in other DAWs like their DSP plugins. Also, Brainworx and Softube stopped developing new UAD plugins. Updates and refreshes from both companies on their VST, AU, AAX, and AAX-DSP versions will not make their way to UAD.

[@KKMcK1]

UAD2 OCTO PCIe in ProTools? Which DSP system does Brainworx utilize? When you say Ethernet, do you mean Dante? The thing that stands out for me with Luna is the API console plugin. I see HDX cards sitting next to UAD PCIe cards, as well as RedNet Dante PCIe.

[@anthemmakersmusic]

I felt I should have received a bit nicer treatment. Every update I would lose plugins and have to remind them I already paid. Also when buying bundles of ten or more plugins each user should receive a receipt that states exactly what plugin and what version of that plugin that they have purchased. The devil is in the details. Currently it isn't like that. Marcus Dwayne Gonzalez

[@anthemmakersmusic]

I want a day in Music when no one's ego makes them feel elitist. We learn for a lifetime or we become irrelevant! Marcus Dwayne Gonzalez

[@andreasfranzmann9634]

It's 2021. Who needs onboard dsp interfaces? What computers are you using, Commodore? 😜

[@BarryJohns]

I actually have a video coming out soon on that very topic......but considering that the majority of higher end interfaces now ship with onboard DSP for tracking, I'd say a lot of people still need it. Think Antelope, Apogee, RME, Metric Halo, Universal Audio, on and on, remember, just because you may not need it, does not mean that everyone else has the same needs you do. Just something to consider......

[@andreasfranzmann9634]

@@BarryJohns Totally agree. Back in the days when I used Pro Tools I was begging for some more dsp power in every session I did. Now I am in Reaper. Enough said. :-) Btw: Cool channel sir!

[@Sumbibebe]

I hate them both, they are DAW’s Crystal Meth!! But I love your show and the boxing entro was quite entertaining. In this match both fighters bit off there adversary’s left ear. Brainworks gets off the hook with a free pass. I’m a Logic-RME-iMac guy and loving it to-da-max!! I use Wave plugins system, “buy low now and we’ll suck the life out of ya later.” I also got Reason 10 and I won’t upgrade because they are also blood suckers, however, nobody comments on their SSL mixer, I seem to like it a lot.

[@1tabularasa1]

The winner is: Samplitude!

[@victorvalena4630]

Will what about the HDX card inside carbon. What about the hardware inserts like using a 1176 on a vocal of just doing hardware re-route stems of Neve 1073 for freeing them up. I have 40 I/Os s of Apollos and have used them for years. But, If i have a huge mix going on and can't back off my buffer size to 64 then my record stems can be monitored on time via the console in Apollo but the tracks record behind.... I alway have to drag my wavs forward. Will the carbon HDX processing fix this and make hardware inserts in protools be in time and phase. The way I do my mixing now is insert all my analogue gear on the back in through summing mixers that have line inserts like a console. But I have to really commit to this analog mix when I start. But if I have a way to do insert in protools I can do recall a little easier with my hardware. I don't think the Apollo is capable of do this but the carbon with the HDX inside is. Any commit is helpful.

[@ezrashanti]

I believe carbon would solve this and accounts for all delay compensation properly, although may be buggy sometimes.

[@SirMixAlotChannel]

Does LUNA support plugins other that UAD?

[@romelhardy326]

As long as they are audio unit plugins.

[@johnjohnson6672]

How many "at the end of days are there?" 😅😅😅😅

[@anthemmakersmusic]

I ran 3 octo tb s and one Apollo x8p

[@sledge1swede654]

The trust in AVID is just not there and for me will never recover .I am going UA all in they never let me down awsome support that NOT COST THE WORLD.

[@simonvandenheever8571]

Why does no one talk about Antelope Audio? They've recently fixed their drivers and software had mine for 6 months without a single hiccup.

[@BarryJohns]

Be patient, coming up soon, great interfaces!

[@davidcamarda8723]

I use Apogee Quartet. Same category as Antelope. Insanely good converters, only for the hardcore I guess.

[@simonvandenheever8571]

@@davidcamarda8723 For sure! I think Apogee has a far better rep than Antelope just because their stuff has been stable for quite a while, I think a lot of people just attach an astigmatism to Antelope because of their rocky past with reliability.

[@randallnielson2011]

I have to agree. I started with Antelope 5 years ago with a Zen Tour and I HATED the software issues. Sold it. But a year ago I bought an Orion 32+ from VK and have never had a moment’s trouble with it. Not one issue. I’m back in Antelope’s camp, especially with that brilliant routing matrix. I haven’t touched my Apollo x6 in 11 months. Will sell it for a Silicon Mac and a UC1!

[@Rhythmattica]

Im I right in thinking with avid, if you decide to pay the yearly sub, you lose your perpetual license as you hand it back? So cant go back to an old version orig you owned if you decide not to continue the sub ?

[@BarryJohns]

No, they are two very different plans. If you have a perpetual license, you own if for life, if you don’t pay the annual fee, you are stuck at whatever version you are on at the time. With subscription, if you don’t continue to pay, you can no longer use it.

[@ezrashanti]

@@BarryJohns Carbon always provided a Perpetual parachute license. You can use it forever. If you want to get the the new version, you buy a subscription. When that runs out, I believe your forever license stays on that version. So it's like a Perpetual License that you can renew with a year of updates for the cost of a subscription. I'm 95% sure that's how it works.

[@stevenb9209]

UA won't get another nickel from me until they significantly improve their processing power. Time to put Sharc chips out to pasture.

[@ezrashanti]

Carbon uses sharc chips as well

[@drunit8122]

i choose to sleep with both lol

[@anthemmakersmusic]

Keep in mind I tracked my unit s origine

[@anthemmakersmusic]

Luna will over take The Mac version of Protools but pc. Users will still use many different Daws and interfaces

[@anthemmakersmusic]

Luna seems to want only famous users. Keep in mind I own almost everything plug in wise IAD offers

[@anthemmakersmusic]

Plus every plugin except for five.

[@cheadlejuice-musicproducti5875]

Have to disagree. I like plugin alliance and sold all my UAD plugins cause of their business model and too much hype buuuuut….the UAD virtualizer MK2 sounds worlds better than the PA version. Theres an audibly noticeable difference and sounds like literal trash. Try it out.

[@BarryJohns]

I think you and I are saying the same thing. Check out my video on Universal Audio Wale the Freak Up.

[@cheadlejuice-musicproducti5875]

@@BarryJohns Yah. i watched that video. I must have misunderstood you in this one because of the statement that you said about brainworks ported emulations sounds the same on both platforms. You must have been sarcastic and i missed it. Sorry bout that ! Btw i really like your point of view on alot of things.

[@BarryJohns]

Thanks, I appreciate that!@@cheadlejuice-musicproducti5875

[@anthemmakersmusic]

Luna should be cross platform, amd ryzen Threadripper pro is faster and hasn't been optimised for any daw yet.

[@jayjacks2641]

Because AMD motherboards aren't signed/lisenced for Thunderbolt which is an Intel technology, which UA uses.

[@sekritskworl-sekrit_studios]

I'm not down for Avid or UAD with their elitist pricing strategies.

[@anthemmakersmusic]

Lastly I have created several records that I don't get credit for that have won grammys and made hundreds of millions of dollars. Marcus Dwayne Gonzalez

[@anthemmakersmusic]

?