Proxxon PD400 lathe review part I

After using this lathe for two years I'd like to share my experiences.
There is much to like about this machine. But there are also a few small problems and one nasty design fault which can lead to serious damage if not addressed . Luckily there are easy fixes for this. Enjoy!

[@henklensing57]

Please can you help me? The internal switch from the chuck guard 24400-01-128 is damaged. To replace that switch I have to disassemble the head stock to reach that switch. I never disassembled the headstock, what is the best approach?

[@Michel-Uphoff]

Remove the gear scissors (loosen the bolt and pry the whole thing off by wiggling it). Remove the drive belts, then the 4 bolts of the motor at the bottom left. Now first remove the small Allenhead screw in the recesses of the large ring nut of the drive pulley, and then loosen the ring nut. You can then manually remove the drive pulley from the main spindle, do not lose the key. Now loosen the six M5 Allen screws and the entire back plate with the idler wheel can be removed. Behind this you will find the switches.

[@bastian6173]

The most disturbing part is that you have to pay 2500 euros to fix THEIR mistakes :(

[@abdelrahmanelmasry9699]

I like the lathe review nobody seem to show the imperfections of the design and how to solve some of it's problems, also i'm wondering what is the headstock bearing number, they say oversized bearings but can't find a source for what size is that bearing.

[@Michel-Uphoff]

If I remember well the outer diameter of the two tapered roller bearings is 70mm, maybe 72 mm.

[@abdelrahmanelmasry9699]

@@Michel-Uphoff ok that's oversized bearing, I expected it to be 55 or 62 mm maximum, Thanks for the help ❤️

[@ofcourseofcoursebutmaybe]

I will never forget the hippopotamus lathe again

[@matthewlawson884]

Very useful video, thank you. Assume you are now working for Proxxon as an independent consultant?

[@andreconradie7308]

Thanks Michel, you're a very experienced and gifted engineer. I am going to do some of these mods on my PD400. I have also made some mods I will gift to you if you want to use them.

[@Michel-Uphoff]

Thank you. Always interested in improvements!

[@jaumedasable]

A very interesting video. With your permission, I'm going to analyze it and copy something. Between minutes 2 and 3 of the video you can see that you have adapted a motor with an ER11 spindle. what engine do you recommend? Thank you very much for sharing your time and your ideas.

[@Michel-Uphoff]

Ah, that's my tiny tool post grinder. I made it from a thick bar of steel for the (high-speed) bearings and the mounting. Bought an ER 11 collet with straight shank and modified it to fit in the ball bearings and around the axle of the motor. The rest of the housing is made of aluminum. The motor is a 26 watt 24 volt 8000 rpm DC motor. Hopefully this link works: nl.aliexpress.com/item/32904779259.html

[@jaumedasable]

@@Michel-Uphoff Thanks a lot! The more I watch your video, more I like it. Greetings!!

[@MrXanderjanssen]

Michel, Bedankt voor deze review. Mijn PD400 draaibank is na ruim 15 jaar intensief gebruik toe aan een grote beurt. Daarbij kan ik deze video mooi gebruiken. Mogelijk dat ik ook een aantal aanpassingen van jou door ga voeren. Zeer mooie werkstukken die je maakt. Ik maak vooral Stirling en benzine motoren op mijn machines. Ondanks dat veel mensen van mening zijn dat Proxxon "speelgoed" is, ben ik enorm tevreden, zeker over de nauwkeurigheid en levensduur. Dat haalt een goedkope draaibank uit het verre oosten niet.

[@Michel-Uphoff]

Het zijn best fijne machines. Vooral van de snelspanner in de losse kop heb ik heel veel plezier. Maar er is ook wel het een en ander op aan te merken. Binnenkort ga ik eens goed kijken naar de holle aluminium kolom van de FF500/BL. Die is door zijn grote breedte en diepte (10*15 cm) best behoorlijk stijf in de dwarsrichtingen, maar ik vermoed dat hij niet goed tegen torsie kan. Dan dus een aardig filmpje over versterking met epoxybeton.

[@useruseruser535]

@@Michel-Uphoff Hello, I don't understand why you want to fill Ff500 columns?

[@stefanhertweck]

Great analysis and problem solving. Looking forward to seeing the Proxxon mill mods :) Greetings from Badischen, Stefan.

[@Michel-Uphoff]

Thank you Stefan. I will make a video for the mill mod's, but that will take a few weeks.

[@Sherpa199]

Thank you for a nice review, if I had to replace my EMCO Compact 5 the PD400 would be my first choice, despite some short comings that you highlight. The cross slide nut in aluminium is quite common, even the EMCO Maximat 10 had the same aluminium nut used. With the PD400's price point there are still commercial considerations (cost reductions) and largely speaking these are what you high light, the Compact 5 had a similar set of issues maybe even slightly more.

[@Michel-Uphoff]

Owned a Emco Compact 5 for 30+ years, the Proxxon PD 400 is way better. Nevertheless, the design flaws (I consider the plain bearings in the cross feed hand wheel the third real flaw) have little to do with costs, just poor design / testing. Ok, aluminium is used more often you state, but why?

[@Sherpa199]

@@Michel-Uphoff The only reason aluminium is used in those cross slide nuts in my opinion is cost, very few machines are manufactured with little regard to cost, maybe just Schaubulin on some products and Hardinge on the very high end lathe HLV. Good design also has a cost associated to it in a normal company, as good designers cost more money to employ than average designers, it is all cost. However it would appear that Proxxon are finding a good balance between cost and quality production coupled with good design. Can you talk about the motor rating on the PD400? is it continuously rated? I have never checked the rating of the Compact 5 motor but I have used the lathe all day before now.

[@Michel-Uphoff]

Yes, but it can become very hot after long continuous use, specially when run idle a long time. Just as the motor of the Compact 5 heats up quite a lot. However, I never used the machine more than say 3 hours continuous.

[@Sherpa199]

@@Michel-Uphoff Thanks for that information, I agree that the Compact 5 motor heats up quite a bit on long runs. When Proxxon quote KB 5 minutes (on my TBH drill) what does KB mean? I can see there is an implication that there is a 5 minute rating but I cannot find out what KB means?

[@Michel-Uphoff]

KB is a German abbreviation for Kurz Betrieb, short time usage (here 5 minutes).

[@MUNDHIRALKIYUMI]

We need more videos from you

[@arthurdeleniq]

a like and a new subscriber

[@stewanish]

Hi Michel thanks for sharing. Thought I don't own a Proxxon lathe, I have a loyal Sherline lathe for years. I learnt a lot of your painstakingly upgrades.

[@gangleweed]

A lathe is for life, like a good woman......so why do people prefer to spend less and get a lower quality machine they would probably get used to for life?.........a poor man always pays twice.

[@Michel-Uphoff]

This is my third lathe. The over all quality is high and it wasn't cheap at all. The changes I made were quite simple and quickly arranged. So despite my criticism, I am very satisfied with this machine.

[@MrSonofsonof]

Because there is always going to be a more expensive lathe that you can buy, but at a certain point, you can't afford more, and then the choice is a 2000 euro lathe or no lathe. And no lathe is always worse.

[@alf3071]

wow a lot of flaws while being so expensive

[@gworx-247]

Thank you very much! 👍I am running a 250/E and some Problems are the same.

[@Michel-Uphoff]

Ok! So maybe this video was helpful for you. 🙂

[@dc-wp8oc]

Voice over instead of a soundtrack would have been helpful, actually explaining the challenges with this machine. You should send your video to the Proxxon folks, and they should compensate you for pointing out the flaws on their machine.

[@Michel-Uphoff]

Is your Dutch that good? ;-)

[@dc-wp8oc]

@@Michel-Uphoff Nein. Seriously though, I thought the points you made were valid and helpful. From prior experience with Austrians and Germans, I think pointing out flaws would be an uphill battle:) I will not purchase a machine made in Communist China so it looks as though the Proxxon will have to do.

[@mennouphoff8889]

Kanaal blijft het geweldig doen!

[@kurtkrause7151]

Thanks for the share. Whenever I start to covet my neighbors machine's (these days, being older( maybe a bit wiser), I wait until the 'Mod's' begin and I appreciate my machines all the more. Cheers.👍

[@behemothinferno]

Hello, I am considering purchasing my first ever lathe. After doing a lot of research, the two best options around my budget are this lathe and the Wabeco D2400. The latter seems to be of a higher spec but the tooling seems to be lacking a little bit. Which one would you go for?

[@Michel-Uphoff]

I have no experience with that Wabeco lathe. Considered it a few years ago, but went for the Proxxon. The first reason I raised my eyebrows was the bed. Two round steel bars in a machine that costs way more than this Proxxon, didn't like that. A cast iron bed is more rigid and dampens vibrations. I also read: "thread cutting (option)". I see a price of around € 3500, don't know whats included, doesn't seem much. Is there any information regarding the spindle bearings? You want adjustable ones.

[@Michel-Uphoff]

It's bigger, but not much. Besides that, bigger isn't always an advantage. Wabeco D2400, Proxxon PD400 center distance 500 mm, 400 mm center height 110 mm, 85 mm

[@Sigmatechnica]

I have owned a couple of proxxon machines and have been unimpressed by both of them. a good deal too much alluminium and flimsy all around. is that headstock casting alluminium? at least the bed and saddle are iron on this one

[@YooProjects]

Super professional job, keep going forward. I am waiting for you next video.

[@ifitrollsrideit530]

Some great ideas in this video, thanks for sharing them. I'm going to try them out for my little PD250/e I'm more worried about carbide from grinding wheels or wet/dry paper than chips but I think your solutions will really help protecting against that sort of damage.

[@navajo179]

Thanks for your remarks and observations. I have only just bought a Proxxon. (the 250E). but didn't notice that it didn't come with a half nut until after I bought it. Oh! It runs quite smooth and seems to work very well for the small stuff that I will be using it for. I'm going to go back over your Video to read of your improvements.

[@henklensing57]

Is there a manual or any description how to disassemble the PD400 in the correct way. Are there any special tools required?

[@Michel-Uphoff]

Not that I know of. But it isn't hard. What you need is a set of hex keys and maybe a wrench, so no special tools. If you also want to take the main spindle apart (not recommended if you have little experience) you could use a special wrench for those nuts, but tapping them loose with a hammer and a brass rod is also possible.

[@henklensing57]

@@Michel-Uphoff bedankt. Kan ik de tussen pulley met een pulley trekker los halen?

[@Michel-Uphoff]

@henklensing57 Die hoeft niet los, je kan de hele achterwandplaat met dat wiel er nog op verwijderen door de zes M5 inbusbouten te verwijderen. Eerst wel even de vier bouten van de motor weghalen. Zie mijn andere antwoord.

[@stephenhart984]

I am seeking a small lathe built, preferably, in Europe and have been looking at Proxxon so this is a hugely helpful video, thank you. I think that Proxxon owe you a refund on your machine after all the work that you have put in to identify and then fix these design shortcomings. Not only design failings but also show a lack of real world testing? I agree with your later comment, it would indeed be much wiser to eliminate these deficiencies and then charge a little more thereby producing a machine that really is head and shoulders above all the cheap imports.

[@Michel-Uphoff]

That's exactly my impression: Impeccable in its precision and finish, but a few design blunders that would have been easy to spot if someone with a lot of experience with lathes had field tested it. I thinks it's up to Proxxon to eliminate these errors, which are easy to fix, as soon as possible and released a modified version.

[@useruseruser535]

@@Michel-Uphoff Hello, I bought the PD400 and ff500 versions in March 2024, which can be considered new, and I have the same problems you are experiencing and I could not start working. These machines were flashy but useless, just like fancy Italian cars. 🤬

[@marcoam2610]

@@Michel-Uphoff If only Proxxon would listen…Pls. Proxxon - learn from this! You claim: "Precision made in Germany". Medium to high precision, not designed for robustness and long-term reliability and practicality - that is what Proxxon lathes are. Please give us just a little more for the price...

[@mundhiral-kiyumi8300]

Can you recommend a better lathe if you have a budget of 6-7K$ which lathe you will buy an upgrade from Proxxon

[@Michel-Uphoff]

If you send me an email with the most important set of requirements you have for a lathe, I'll see if I can help you.

[@mundhiral-kiyumi8300]

@@Michel-Uphoff Hi the same size as the Proxxon just more precision and reliability.

[@Michel-Uphoff]

@mundhiral-kiyumi8300 More precision could be hard to find, the PD400 is very precise. Maybe the Wabeco range is more to your liking, see: www.wabeco-remscheid.de/drehmaschine-d4000-4.html

[@navajo179]

I would like to copy your improvements, especially those designed to shield from from metal swarfs and chips. At the moment I'm not having a lot of luck at dismantling all the parts. I right from the time I bought it, I had trouble with small knob that engages the power drive. (shaft)

[@Michel-Uphoff]

Looks like the same system used in my pd400 to me. Did you watch my first video in its entirety? Attention is paid to that selection knob. What exactly is your problem with that?

[@navajo179]

It's nearly the same but quite as long.@@Michel-Uphoff Michel, I've stripped the Lathe down and it's now adjusted and working fine, as is.

[@TankSlaping]

HI Michael, loving your videos! Have you been able to add a DRO to your Proxxon lathe?

[@Michel-Uphoff]

No, not yet. But it shouldn't be a problem at all with the same sensors and magnetic tape I used for the DRO on my mill (see videos).

[@arjanvanraaij8440]

Dit is natuurlijk deel van de hobby het perfectioneren van je machine.

[@marcoam2610]

Awesome video. Question: At 13:01, that bottom draw plate (part no. 24400-03-31): Would you give me the dimensions of that plate? Length and width? (I guess thickness is also 5mm as with the PD250, correct?)

[@Michel-Uphoff]

It's thicker: 80*60*6 mm

[@marcoam2610]

Thank you so much, Michel!

[@bobwilson7684]

man you could repatent it and resell it to proxxon ! hahah

[@glenhiggs3196]

Thank you brilliant video been thinking of buying a Proxxon not skilled enough to fix all the wrongs though ☹️

[@Michel-Uphoff]

Thinking of the lathe or the mill, or both? Keep in mind that it is not strictly necessary to modify the machines at the time of purchase. You can also do that later, when you have gained more experience.

[@alespersin6066]

When the engineer gets to work. Nothing is to his taste, everything needs to be changed. All these changes you made would increase the price of the product by 100% and Proxxson would fail. You can't compete with cheap products from China.

[@ifitrollsrideit530]

Not sure I totally agree with this. Overall the PD400 is an excellent lathe but by actually using it and carefully observing where chips are collecting Michel has discovered some really good improvements. I mean just protecting the main bearing by extending the spindle tube is going to cost roughly nothing. Right now it's a design flaw that will destroy precision over time. You don't beat Chinese products by being cheap you beat them by being better quality.

[@alespersin6066]

@@ifitrollsrideit530 You just take comparison who sell more this machines? For the hobby the Proxxson is 10 times to expensive. This is the fact.

[@ifitrollsrideit530]

@@alespersin6066 No one buys Proxxon because they are cheap, as you point out they are more expensive than Chinese products. We buy them because we want quality. The point is that fixing small design flaws won't make the machines more expensive to make. If anything Proxxon will save on warrantee claim costs and get a better reputation for quality. Nothing is more expensive than getting a bad reputation for low quality and also being expensive because then people stop buying your products.

[@alespersin6066]

@@ifitrollsrideit530 Send this to factory maybe they will listen to you. They are aware that they are making mistakes even in such banal things as protect vital parts as spindle etc. But in other hand they are living from selling new machines. So it is clear something must be bad.

[@marcoam2610]

The only thing that is really not excellent in my opinion is the light/weak Crossslide and Tailstock material. The tailstock alignment in X axis direction is not adjustable - and the locking machanism is suboptimal

[@arthurdeleniq]

Is the bed hardened?

[@Michel-Uphoff]

No, the ways are not induction hardened.

[@kevinf92]

I like your practical approach to solving the problems you've encountered on this lathe, as I have had similar problems on my lathe, which is a Sieg SC4. However, I am a bit surprised, and discouraged to see the same kind of fit-and-finish issues on what is supposed to be a "good" lathe. Such is life, I suppose.

[@Michel-Uphoff]

Actually I found the fit and finish very nice. Every part fits like a charm, nothing to deburr, beautiful finish, very clean surfaces, everything machined very well. But there where issues, so here's the wish-list Proxxon: 1: Better protection against chips (cross slide, apron, selector, carriage and especially!! the left bearing of the head-stock. This shouldn't cost much to implement. 2: Fix that little selector problem (design blooper) 3: Fix that awful entrance of chips in the gearbox through the hollow head-stock shaft (real design blooper) 4: Replace those badly running plain bearings in the apron by ball bearings, see next movie 5: Throw in a tail-stock quick release lever, just to make us happy again (see the other video) 6: Use bronze for the precision nuts (yet to come) 7: After this ask € 100 more, and everybody is happy ;-)

[@kevinf92]

I agree, for just a little more effort and a few dollars/euros more, it would be an ideal product :)