We Need to Talk about the Tone Masters

[@AprioriMarcos]

Lyle, I own all three Tonemaster amps, and I'm a tube amp guy. I played and toured with a 73 Super Reverb for 15 years, and I own more tube amps than a person should admit to. I've really appreciated your channel (and your MLP forum posts) for a lot of years. Some important notes about these amps: 1) My experience with these: I bought a Twin the first day they were available 3 years ago. I've played it for every gig since then until I replaced it with the TM Super Reverb when that came out. Approaching 100 Tonemaster gigs soon. The Deluxe is my new "family room noodling at piano/upright bass volume" amp. It's a great sounding amp. 2) They're good/great sounding versions of these amps. I am 100% comfortable putting my tube amp cool kid cred on the line here. It has been dozens of times that guitar players in the audience have told me how great my tone was, and how good it was to see someone using "a real amp." Only occasionally do I point out that it's a digital modeler. 3) The attenuation is no joke. I have used the Super and the Twin in smaller venues, and dialing in a proper tone at lower decibels is amazing. Our band has entirely shifted over to these, largely because of this feature (and DI outs; we're a 10 piece band and tend to use all the mics available). As a side note, the Twin has never been used at full on attenuation, and it's incredible to be able to hear a driven Twin sound without going actually deaf. 4) All the amps have firmware updates, and all versions are usable. You can have the sound update and the original IRs, or the original sound and the newer IRs. Old reverb sound or new. Which leads me to: 5) I miss tube/spring reverb. The updated reverb is better, especially at lower volumes, but it is not the same. This is my one gripe. It's obviously (supposedly intentionally) different. Trem is ok. I've had better and worse in tube amps. Lastly, I hope someone loans you one soon. I've been impatiently waiting to hear your take on them for years. I would offer to ship you one, but I'm using them. A lot. Cheers; hope your wrist heals.

[@rdec8734]

Thanks for this comment. It was helpful. I am home player only and bounce between a Vox AC15 and a fender GTX 100. I’ve been really interested in the tone master but keep going back and forth between the deluxe and the twin. Would you have any thoughts or preferences on which you would prefer at lower volumes using the attenuator?

[@AprioriMarcos]

@@rdec8734 I honestly suggest the Twin for lower volumes, though all three are pretty great. Where the Twin's attenuation points are at seem to be the most reasonable (to me) for home playing. Both the Deluxe and the Super's lowest setting is a bit quieter than "feels" good. Just my opinion, of course.

[@artysanmobile]

Hi Mark. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a faithful emulation of a guitar amp tank spring reverb. The reason? That device objectively sounds like crap. I can just see plug-in developers struggling with this; “No! I’m not going to make that sound!” Well, subjectively, many love that awful sproing at the top of the decay. Oh, well…

[@TurboMountTV]

I might be able to top you... You want to turn a Tone Master into a Super Tone Master? Put the Fender MTG Tube Distortion Pedal in front of it. It gives it that warm-tube feeling & sound that fills the room just like tube amps do. Very low gain / high volume settings to keep it clean. Up the gain lower the volume to get tube break up / dirty / distortion. HIgh mids if you want that sound. It is basically now your pre-amp, a tube one. Fender should make this pedal mandatory with each amp, it is THAT good of a combination. I did it to the Twin, and I assume it would have same affect to the Deluxe. On top of that I bought both Black and Twin to compare, and ended up swapping the speakers. So it now has 1 British Celestion and 1 American Jensen speaker because I am a picky dumb ass who couldn't decide which one to keep. By accident I discovered that this is an amazing combination that HAS to be HEARD to be believed. With the pedal it is like a Boutique amp turning this into a Super Super Tone Master that can play any style you want with tube realism, yet with digital control for various volumes you want to play at ---The big TM advantage in first place Problem with swap: Now I have 2. Sweetwater is very open with returns as they agreed to let me return one after testing both, but obviously I cant return a modded amp. For Sale: 1 Amazing Super Super Tone Master Twin Reverb -- Austin Texas.

[@fadlyhans82]

After reading this comment, I’m pretty sure I’m gonna get the TM Super Reverb. I don’t play gigs or jam anymore. Just home noodling with families at home. Gonna sell off my Marshall SC20H and keep most of my pedals.

[@bsbrooks455]

You need to look at this amp as a tool, not an investment. If you are a gigging musician and it fits your needs, at about $750.00 with a 2 year warranty, even if it fails just as the warranty ends it will only have cost you about $1.00 a day. For a working musician who wants the classic Fender sound it almost seems like a no brainer

[@scacchomattho]

If you're a touring musician, you're going to invest in IEMs and modeler pedalboards like kemper/helix/cortex/fractal

[@BrockBarr]

Good thinking here except for the impact on the environment. Something that can live for 50 years is better than something that lives for 5.

[@bsbrooks455]

@@BrockBarr Who's to say that the amp won't last for 50 years if it properly maintained and cared for. I just meant that no matter what happens you still get your money's worth out of it.

[@TunedupFlat]

@@scacchomattho I'm with you on that. Maybe a weekend warrior that wants looks might use those tone master things but anyone who actually would tour is using something rackmounted or a board unit to get their equipment footprint down.

[@St0n_e_man]

I bought one in late 2020 thinking the pandemic would be over and my band would pick up on gigs…it’s only NOW (almost 2 yrs later) that we start picking them up🙃

[@shutupnplayyerguitar3812]

I am 52 and a die hard Fender Tube amp fan. I always wanted to own and play shows with a Twin Reverb, but was unwilling to lug a 70lb amp around. I got me a 1975 Deluxe Reverb instead. My back thanks me for that. The Tonemasters were made for players exactly like me. As soon as I found out there was a 35lb look a like Twin Reverb I was all in. I got my Twin Tonemaster in Oct. 2019 and have been so happy with it that I want the Deluxe Tonemaster also. The Twin is 2.5 years old now and I have used it for every gig I’ve played since I got it. So far there has not been the slightest hint of an issue with the amp and I hope it remains that way for many years to come? I do very much agree with you that it was stupid for Fender to not add an effects loop? I could see if they were going for a 100% classic look for the amp, but already there is nothing classic looking about the rear panel. I bet you are right about version 2.0 getting an effects loop? Thank you for the great videos. I don’t watch TV any more, just play guitar and watch Amp service videos😀 Poking my way around Tube Amp chassis in the early 90s paved the way to my career as an Electrical Technologist and I really love to watch you do your thing.

[@triplelindys]

We are roughly the same age and I love my Twin Tonemaster, too. It fits my situation perfectly.

[@vincentl.9469]

@@triplelindys Solid state or Tube, the number of good techs that can fix things will probably diminish

[@stratolestele7611]

I'm about 10 years your senior and have a Deluxe Reverb Tonemaster. With its perfect reverb and trem, I personally, have no need of an effects loop. For modulation, I very successfully use my Univibe clone and chorus into the front end, as God intended (IMO). Hey, if it was good enough for Jimi and the rest, it's good enough for me. I use my same pedalboard into the the front-end of the rest of my amps that are all tube - including delay. Delay? Yep, that's a bigger challenge when you're cranking the amp, but not impossible.

[@shermanbaker]

The tube Deluxe didn’t have enough headroom?

[@paulelkouss]

The effects loop is giving me pause too.

[@AskZac]

Thanks for the shoutout. You dove deep on some very important issues, including some of the downsides of the amp. Great job.

[@sam_uelson]

The bar I regularly gig at recently got a tone master for their backline; in that sort of environment I couldn't tell the difference, and no one listening or looking at it could tell it wasn't an expensive fender tube setup.

[@cptntwang]

I have the Tonemaster Twin and it is the best amp I ever had. Gigging is so much more fun without having to carry the heavy weight.

[@davidcudlip6587]

Word. These things are light. I have the Super Reverb and would never ever consider owning the actual tube version because of how loud and the weight. These amps open up a whole new door to players who would have never considered the "Real" tube versions of these amps.

[@StephenSpelman]

I bought the updated Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb, based on Ask Zac's updated review. It is awesome. (1) It sounds better than my '68 DR reissue. (2) The lack of an effects loop has had no effect on my playing or my tone. Things sound great going into the front. (3) The Tonemaster's featherweight weight is incredible. It's an absolute joy to take in and out of gigs. (4) The reverb is fabulous.

[@andyblakely7576]

Have the newer blonde with updated firmware from the factory. Same opinion as yours, it’s fabulous. The attenuator is fantastic for practice. Played it against a 65 drri and I went home with the tonemaster hands down, and save a bunch of $$$

[@07BSPtC]

Plus, as long as fender is trying to replicate the originals they will not be adding a loop

[@mrredritehand]

@@07BSPtC Couldn't an efx loop be added?

[@stratolestele7611]

Yes to everything you said

[@BollocksUtwat]

@@07BSPtC Yet they're adding a cab and mic sim DI to the board from the 21st century lol.

[@ProSimex84]

this is something that is great for working musicians who just need something lightweight to throw in the car and take to the gig It is absolutely a consumable product, not a legacy one, you wont be handing it down to your kids. Buy it, use it up, junk it. That said they may be a great source of cabs and faceplates in the future.

[@stevendicks7324]

I sold a handwired Deluxe Reverb clone and got a Tonemaster. I A - B’ed them and felt the Tonemaster sounded as good as the DR clone (the clone was a great sounding one and remember all DRs don’t sound the same anyway). The weight, attenuator and line out made it a better fit for what I do. I still have a Princeton Reverb and Champ made by the Amp Shop and they give me my tube fix. I definitely agree with the firmware upgrade improvements.

[@swagedelic]

You must be rolling in money. Usually it's only kids who have no clue for value.

[@arkybeagle6159]

@@swagedelic around 1979 nobody was buying these except the handful of people - GE Smith comes to mind - who had enough stage time to appreciate them for what they are. Even then, something like the GE Smith approach was sort of specialist. People were going solid state, especially after Peavey made the Bandit and family, and the LAB Series came out. All that "value" came from the Innernet and big box guitar stores. I'd been playing for like 20+ years before I even saw a Deluxe Reverb on stage.

[@swagedelic]

@@arkybeagle6159 My post wasn't directed at the guy with the Deluxe Reverb. I was responding to the statement about consumable products. The definition and commerce model of consumption is what is destroying everything from quality, value, balance in the economy and even our environment. Your take on "value" seems set on the throw away and you blame everyone but yourself.

[@prsjackal]

@@swagedelic Do you play guitar? I don’t mean it in a flippant way…. Rather that any guitarist knows there is no such thing as value as it relates to money in the world of guitars. Why pay$500K+ for a 1959 Les Paul, $10K for a hand built replica from a luthier, $5K for a Gibson CS or $2.5K for a Standard? Where is the sweet spot in terms of value? Value is not really a factor as it’s primarily about playability and sound (consistency) within an individuals budget. $1000 is not bad for a decent amp, especially when a vintage DR goes for 3-5x more. Also, vintage amps are scarce, temperamental and inconsistent in sound. More importantly, the good ones typically stay in collections and the bottom 1/3 in terms of sound and reliability float around the used market as people are okay with ditching an expensive, somewhat crappy amp as the vintage market is full of suckers (I include myself in that generalization). The only real ‘value’ in the Tone Master is that they aren’t terribly expensive, they all sound the same and if it fails (as some amps do), you can run to almost any guitar shop and grab one, plug in and go. There is no having to change your rig based on the changes in dynamics and spending month/years sorting it out. I understand your concerns regarding the ‘built-to-break’ approach to products and ‘throw away and buy another’ approach to consumerism…. But these two ideals do not factor into what Fender is doing and what people are saying here.

[@baldpaulstudios7023]

I have 2 beautiful REAL deluxe reverbs. My son is in a touring Pop/hard rock band. Both guitar players fell in love with the Cranked Deluxe reverb sound, and it inspired them to write and put out a hit record which is #3 on the alternative rock charts today. These are young kids; not old tone snobs like me. They have no clue how to maintain a tube amp nor did they want to luge them around the country. So, I took a risk and bought 2 Tone Masters. Bottom line, they sound amazing (the kids couldn’t tell the difference) They are super light. They have now done 2 tours thrown in and out of the trailer nightly for well over 100 shows. They are perfect! If I were still playing out, my half stack would sit, and I would have 2 of these ripping. They're really great, affordable and good sounding tools for gigging musicians. Just 10 years ago young rock bands thought Fenders where for old guys. Now Marshall and Gibson are getting the old guys money and Fender owns the young market. Amps and Guitars. You gotta give it to them for their marketing and designs. Good Job Fender

[@stevenjefferies9415]

Whats the band?

[@SHREDTILLDEAD]

That ain't saying much these days

[@baldpaulstudios7023]

Hey JR whatcha mean?

[@baldpaulstudios7023]

@@stevenjefferies9415 Hey Steven not sure my reply went though as I dont see it. did you get it?

[@baldpaulstudios7023]

@@stevenjefferies9415 ok I was including a link so KZbin doesnt allow that. The name of the band is Anxious and the new album is called Little Green Houses. They have videos and you can hear the album on every major streaming service . Its really great IMO

[@atech9020]

I am a live sound engineer of 20+ years and I had one of these on my stage just the other day. I was curious myself about the amp and decided to test the new model by using the XLR direct out. I set it to position 1 and I must say, I was very impressed! It sounded like a nice mic'd guitar amp. I had to do very little to no EQ work on it and as I recall, it was simply getting a level, turn it up and it was good to go. All I did was use a HP filter to rid any needed low end and I believe I used a mild -3db dip around 5khz to reduce some bite. While I want to dislike some of these " new " DSP based amps, this one actually has me very interested. It sounded good acoustically and it sounded just as good with the XLR direct out. The other guy on the stage had a Deluxe Reissue and I mic'd that one, it sounded just about the same or at least it required similar amounts of work with an SM57 to get a good sound out the PA. I was using an L' Acoustics Kiva II rig to give you an idea. So if there was something to be ashamed of, you would hear it.

[@greg6L6GC]

For a guitarist it’s a different story. Sterile. Touch isn’t there.

[@atech9020]

@@greg6L6GC I am a guitarist of 30 years! And while I can’t speak for the touch and feel of the tone master, I can only say that based on the grade that this guitarist was it didn’t seem to be too much of a problem.

[@greg6L6GC]

@@atech9020 They just sound ok. Don’t heave the feel and that’s important. I’ve been playing 60yrs and when I have time build amps. I’ve worked my entire life in electronics.

[@atech9020]

@@greg6L6GC Nice! I too have been building guitar amps for several years now. I’m not trying to tell everybody to go out and buy the fender tone master, but from the limited experience I have with it, it is a product that has me interested.More so as an entry-level, affordable version of the real deal that you don’t have to worry about beating up or not.

[@supersonicsroots]

@@greg6L6GC bullcrap, they do not sound sterile at all. And it feels about the same as my Fender tube amp. The Tonemaster is just little bit more sensitive to touch, but that depends on your playing style as well. It sounds great and has a lot more headroom at the same volume as my Hot Rod tube amp, it's loud, very full sounding and clean as hell. Is it exactly the same as a Twin Reverb tube? No it's not. But there's absolutely no one who will notice that subtle difference when playing with a full band on stage.

[@Margarinethebutterlover]

If anyone is interested. An update to the Fender Twin Reverb Tonemaster in 2024. I would have to find receipts but I bought the tonemaster twin when first available here in Australia. I think 2019(?) I had been in negotiations on a silver face master volume Twin reverb, but it fell through, so I took the dive into the Tonemaster world. Just wanting that classic Twin sound. Of course every amp has it's purpose and application. We have a semi soundproofed music room at our residence, and a deal with very tolerant neighbours. So we can play quite loud in the room. An acoustic drum kit, and a somewhat animalistic neanderthal drummer, to keep up with. I have updated the amp once, otherwise it has been used basically everyday in a the last 4-5 years, by myself and by sons friends. Who have fiddled and diddled. No issues whatsoever. Touch wood. It has a very low noise floor. Sounds great at low and blistering volumes. Takes some tweaking to get pedals running well. ( I would like to try the Celestion Version) I am very satisfied with this amp after the time I have had it, with no issues.

[@doctorskull8197]

Great video. I own two Tone Master Deluxe Reverb for about 18 months. It’s great and I’m very happy with it. I do baby it. I play local bars about 2 or 3 times a month. Don’t use effects other than Fulltone OCD for high gain distortion sounds. I don’t even know what the “bright cap” issue is about. Don’t need or care about need an effects loop. I’m confident that I won’t have issues with it and will last another 5 years, at least. The greatest feature is it only weighs 23 pounds‼️😎

[@ajcampana]

Great video. One reason I do not have an intention to purchase the tone master series is to look at what Fender did with the mustang v2 series. After only a few years they completely stopped supporting the software, not just upgrades, but removed the ability to even log into the software. I felt that was almost bait and switch (ish).

[@taborturtle]

You will probably be able to buy those computer boards on AliExpress in a couple of years so no worries there.

[@FrankHarv]

re: "After only a few years they completely stopped supporting the software", maybe you aren't aware, they HAD to abandon the FUSE software, because a key component of it was the Microsoft Silverlite component. MICROSOFT abandoned it, around 2012 or so, and they removed support and left it at 32 bit. Fender had no choice but to "let that drift", and start a new platform. That's why the next model, the "GT", wasn't very good, they continued several years in development and way improved "that" software / firmware, releasing the upgrade as 3.0 for the GT, "and it is" the GTX100 firmware, 3.0, same amps / effects etc, MUCH improved (early 2020 release). Yes Fender looked bad. But, grasping what I've said here, one realizes it wasn't their fault, at least not on this one...

[@seanbrooks2583]

My main amp is a Fender Twin Tweed 57 reissue. The amp i take out to play is a fender super reverb tonemaster. if it dies outside of warranty, ill replace the electronics with a Mojotone kit.

[@Strumbum01]

I looked into these a while back and passed after seeing the price. Made more sense to spend a couple hundred more and get a used 65 DRRI.

[@drfakoo]

My Deluxe 1st gen Deluxe Tone Master failed after one year... Fortunatly was still on warranty and the dealer was kind enough, so I could change it for a 65 Princeton Reverb Reissue. Happiest man on earth...

[@hock4540]

Man, your videos are REALLY GOOD! Thanks for taking the time. Most of us have no idea about the pitfalls and things to look for inside an amp. It's also great to see you don't dog digital stuff and present it as an option with the pros/cons. Well done!

[@genenery9315]

I always find your videos informative and interesting. I'm nearly 64 yrs old and while I do love a really great tube amp, of which I think there are very few and far between, I only ever gig with modelers - and I own many (he says sheepishly) including the Helix Floor and the Fender Tone Master Pro. I only ever gig with modelers because I absolutely take advantage of the flexibility and consistency they offer that amplifiers simply cannot provide. At home, I have a Fender Customer Vibrolux Blonde Reissue that I cannot get enough of. It has been modified to Vibroverb specs to fix the noise issue it had. Anyway, this is just a note to say thank you for these highly educational and (to me) entertaining videos.

[@jwilder2251]

You’ll never have to replace the tubes on a Tonemaster, or throw your back out. Analog parts can also fail, are subject to variation, etc. This was a good and fair discussion of the pros and cons, but for a lot of buyers, the decision just comes down to nostalgia

[@fivepiece]

I can assure you that tubes, solid state, and digital all behave differently when playing through them. I can't afford a tube amp but I've played through several owned by friends and the difference is immediately noticeable.

[@willjones4992]

@@flknstky "for a lot of buyers" was what they said. They never said there isn't a difference, but oftentimes the people avoiding these and buying the real thing are the people that arguably are impacted the least by the difference.

[@KellerFkinRyan]

@@flknstky finally someone who doesn't shove the tone masters dick down their throat. pardon the vulgarity but thats how it seems these guys are. I dont own either a DRRI nor a TMDR but I did a shootout yesterday at my local store. the DRRI just blows away the TM. no comparison. maybe with like a clean boost or some sort of low gain klon style pedal it may sound better but the warm breakup isn't there on the TM. I wasn't expecting perfection from the tone master but it sounds closer to a mustang gtx modeler of a DR rather than a tube DR. there are far too many people praising these amps because they completely fall short of what theyre supposed to sound like, especially for $1000. sure, maybe for the 60 year old with a bad back its worth it. but anyone who really wants to dial in a DR tone won't be able to get it from the TM.

[@supersonicsroots]

And convenience.

[@supersonicsroots]

@@flknstky my Fender tube amp really does not sound that much better than my Twin Tonemaster. Especially not in a live gig, the subtle difference is not noticeable anymore once you're playing with a full band on a stage that's full amplified through a huge PA system. The feel is not that much different, the Tonemaster is a little bit more sensitive to your playing, but it also depends on your playing style. And it's louder than my Hot Rod Deluxe with a lot more clean headroom. It takes pedals very well too. And my back thanks me everyday. So yeah, I'm good.

[@astewart9410]

I bought the TMDR blonde a year ago and I think it's pretty great. I don't gig, it just sits here at the house. I play it daily (or every other day if another amp here takes my fancy) and it has held up well. I know that digital might fail, and it'll probably be a pain (and costly) to fix, but I just have to trust that Fender did solid work on this side. The attenuation is great (and required) for my small space. I'm not able to say how close it is to an actual DR, but for me and my noodling the sound from this is fantastic. I do agree they could have put in an effects loop, that was an oversight. Overall though, I'm happy with it (and I'm 48 years old).

[@squirelova1815]

Oh how I just LOVE this channel to BITS !!! This Dear genius of a Man's Man is so superbly adept at flawlessly explaining so many, many very important points to consider concerning an Amp's ownership as if he was your very own highly dedicated Attorney no less. This is one of the FIRST channels to definitely consult before making ANY Amplifier "mods", repairs, trades or purchases. How fortunate we are to have such thorough advice here.

[@frankenstein4106]

I bought a used blonde Tone Master Twin for $800 in mint condition. I really wanted that Fender tone. It sounds great and takes my pedals well. I use an AB switch so I can set the normal channel and reverb/tremolo channels separately and go between them. I also use a 386 chip pedal that will give it a JTM 45 tone if I want to get a Marshall tone. 33lbs with 2x12 Neo Creambacks and loud as I'll ever need, it's a great amp to me.

[@anonmcanon5724]

I agree with what you said about the parts; as a sytems-integrator who builds computers from time to time as a part of my job, I like that the individual sections of the amp can all be swapped out, I think that's great. But my personal experience with companies is that these parts can get hard to acquire over time. We had an interface card for lab equipment die a couple years ago, it was from the late 90s so we got a good 20ish years out of it, but the replacement cost 600€. Obviously there are newer versions but that would have required getting newer lab-equipment too which would cost 100s of thousands of euro. This is obviously not 100% analogous but I could see these PCBs going for a couple hundred each once support ends and it's all secondary-market supply. If Fender made the software run on non-proprietary electonics with open-standards using their software and drivers people would make bootleg amps which they want to avoid. I'm also not entirely certain how possible that would be, but I guarantee it wouldn't be entirely impossible. Any time I see proprietary over open-standards I think of Dell who in the past made using their devices in the office difficult and expensive because of how many proprietary connectors they used. To me, it feels anti-consumer, and anti-repair

[@vincentl.9469]

whether parts are available or not, at some point , depending on what the problem is it may prove better to buy a new amp because you may struggle to find a technician to fix either SS or tube technology 🤔

[@1Rockstok]

I have has a couple ‘65 RIs that I sold. I also have a ‘68 Custom Deluxe I bought the Black Tolex TM and after happily using it for 2 years plus 2 months it died. No one around here could fix it. I discussed my situation on The Gear Page and the Fender rep reached out, this is where my story gets good. He offered me a new amp AND gave me the choice of Black or Cream which I is the one I chose. I was and am extremely happy with Fender service for this.

[@doctorskull8197]

I’m 67, been playing guitar in rock groups for 50 years. If I were in a touring band with roadies, I might have a real (heavy) tube amp. Until that day comes, I’m using my two Tonemaster Deluxe Reverbs. They only weigh 23 pounds and sound fantastic! And I have no need for an effects loop.

[@riff1964]

It is a laptop with an amp attached and some knobs and pots. I have never had a laptop fail, and the ones that I have replaced (after 6-8 years) have been replaced because the operating system updates have outgrown the CPU. But the Tonemaster is a laptop designed to do ONE thing, I am sure some of these might fail early but I would expect the CPU to chug on for a decade or more. Mine sits next to my desk, I play it every day through the IR, I am lucky if I get to play the speaker once a month, and I never get to play it above half power. Why did I get it? Because I would NEVER be able to play a Valve Deluxe Reverb above 1 on the volume in my home, and certainly not at night.

[@jeppej4265]

I have one for band usage. Our training room is really small so I drop the wattage to 1/3rd and it sits in the mix. Go to a gig I can dial it with the room and go foh directly with xlr. I really enjoy the versatility and personally I bought it for the deluxe reverb sound which in a band mix is hard to differ from tube one. For home play I use Pod Go either directly with headphones or with PC together with recording, drum etc software. Can recommend pod but maybe would go with hx stomp now as in home use I dont need the buttons that much.

[@middle_pickup]

The tone master amps are very interesting. Glad to see they appear somewhat serviceable.

[@richardbeltran8157]

To Who Foo

[@jimmyjames2022]

Best internals look in a Tonemaster I've seen yet and very important information to get to buyers. The built in obsolescence of proprietary boards combined with short warranty, makes the assumption of price prestige questionable. If this was your computer and you were lucky to get 5-7 years out of it, there'd be no question when components die and you simply upgraded to the latest PC and wrote off the original $800 purchase. But does anyone expect that with a Fender amp? When parts start failing and there's no warranty people will be annoyed.

[@javiceres]

Late 70s Lexicon digital units are still being used, same as 80s or old Eventides, to this day. Some of them are turned on for whole days or weeks. That´s some food for thought when evaluating digital things, not all of them are reated equal.

[@reedmillermusic]

Would love to hear your thoughts on Quilter amps!

[@jimkanter4180]

Replaced my '65 Deluxe Reverb RI with the Tone Master version. After the firmware speaker update I have been delighted with the sound. Not the exactly same as the tube version, but it sounds great. The digital reverb isn't as nice as the spring so I supplemented it with an Oceans 11 pedal. I replaced a Bassman amp with a Quilter for playing bass and love it, so I pulled the trigger on a Quilter Aviator Mach 3 to complement the Tone Master and LOVE it! The Mach 3 is a great addition as it is much louder than the Tone Master and does a decent job emulating Vox and Marshalls as well as 3 different Fender models too. Love its cleans, and the high gain settings are perfectly useable. If you A/B with the tube version you'll hear a difference, but you also would between 2 different tube amps of the same model. Can't beat the weight savings.

[@xenod1066]

Quilter made stuff is as close to indestructible as it gets in my experience.

[@memphismick7010]

I agree. It would be nice to hear his take on the Aviator Cubs and the Mach III. I have a Steelaire and a Mach III. They are both excellent amps. I am not bothering with heavy tube amps any longer. Ps. For tube amps I prefer Peavey Classics and Vox AC15s.

[@dimlamplight]

Fender Champ is a good amp for quilting

[@Impractical_Engineer]

I played the super reverb Tonemaster for an hour at a shop. I thought it sounded ok, kinda sterile, didn't have enough squish. Response was quicker off the speaker vs my 70s Super Reverb which has more sag and a sweeter sound. I'm sure I could be happy with the tonemaster if tube amps cease to exist but it wasn't the same. The speaker break in might get sweeter. I look forward to buying these for stealjng the chassis to wire it up with a handwire circuit.

[@dash4786]

not even based on choosing which amp to buy, the tube or the solid state, but when it comes to touring musicians, to have a deluxe reverb tone master as a backup for your tube amp that can pretty much nail the tones... I think that's unbelievable. You also have a decent catalog of amp choices. So just based off that it's an amazing value

[@benperry490]

For me a bedroom "non-gigging" home recording guitarist I'd be good with this amp even just for the weight savings my back is pretty bad, their used value is still in the $750- $850 range according to my local craigslist and reverb searches so they seem to be holding value -for now as of May of 2022. two years ago when I was still practicing/playing with a band I ran an FRFR rig with my helix hx stomp using 2 frfr 2000 watt headrush cabs and it sounds great and they are only $395 each new

[@halbertking2683]

I worked at a hifi shop in Boston ,way back in the early 80s . Someone came in with a receiver for service . On the cabinet was a sticker . " Genuine Simulated Walnut Veneer " .

[@goodun2974]

Yup, as a former hifi salesman, I saw plenty of those stickers!

[@ricknagy1639]

I've had mine about a year, no problems whatsoever. I knew it would be a gamble, but it's the most useful amp I've ever had. It's better than the last tube DRRI I had. For me an effects loop has never been an issue,.as I've never had one and never felt the need for one.

[@jmdbb]

I love my tonemaster twin. 33lbs and plenty of clean headroom. Exactly what I wanted in a gigging amp. I didn't want to go Kemper or AxeFX and twiddle knobs for months tweaking.

[@Shim267]

Tried the first version of the deluxe a while back and it sounded a bit different, not bad just different. I'd chalk up that difference to the speaker more than anything. I'm not sure it gets you 95% of the way there but they definitely sound good. Undeserving of much of the hate they seem to be getting.

[@TheDynamicsDepartment]

I've had my tone master twin for around 3 years now, played tons of gigs (and everyday in my living room) plenty of HOT outdoor gigs, and I've haven't had any issues yet. Here's hoping it lasts a long time in the future, as it just works for my setup

[@stevep1941]

I have a Blonde TMDR and have done a few gigs- it's great. I started using Deluxe Reverbs in the early 1970s', some sounded nice, others sterile, like a lot of different amps. I find the TM quite toneful and it weights nothing- great for lugging around in and out of the car.

[@joeldowdy404]

I have a new version Deluxe Tone Master and love it, It sounds great with my tele's and pedals, my lap steel sounds great in it, Its super light, I do baby it because I know that it has sensitive electric components. My Tone King Imperial Tube Amp is still my favorite though.

[@ericjosephgarcia6843]

I have used a Tonemaster Twin for a couple of years and have gone back to a tube amp. It's a decent clean amp but does not have the complexity of a tube. It's a decent simulation. Put it next to a real blackface amp with NOS tubes and real Jensen speakers, there is no comparison.

[@GPLP335]

Nice video. I like what Fender has done with the Tone Master series. Your comment about taking care of the amp, treating it with care, etc., really applies to any amp. I would say that this amp is probably far less prone to problems due to shock and vibration than any tube amp I've ever owned. Thanks!

[@scottmoreau5630]

What happens when a new iPhone comes out with a better camera? You could use that analogy for anything digital. There will always be something new and “better”. However, if this amp sounds great then who cares? Also, how many of us spend $2000 on a phone that we keep for less than two years and then upgrade? We just tend to scrutinize musical gear more for some reason.

[@zoltanztoth]

I’ve been using a Twin RI and a TM Twin alternatively at rehearsal. My only challenge with the TM is that when I step on my Tubescreamer or my Big Muff for a solo, my guitar disappears in the mix. On the tube Twin, they both work like a charm for boosting solos.

[@75YBA]

You are an endless well of information! The more I learn about new amps, the more I appreciate my YBA and my Bogen CHB-50.

[@Soul-d5m]

I had two brand new Fender Deluxe Reissues fail me through the years. It was so very disappointing. I now i have been using a Tonemaster Super Reverb and i absolutely love it. I love the tone of it just by itself or with my pedals. I also like to jump the channels like an old Marshall and theougb doing this i have achieved the best guitar tones thats ive ever had in 30 years of playing. Im a tube guy and i love the tonemaster super! I even use three stages of gain on my pedal board and it handles it with ease. I play an 05 Gibson 50s standard through it and i love gain stacking with this amp with a warm audio centavo, fulltone ocd and a Friedman BEOD. It is absolutely tone bliss imo! I can go from that classy glassy Fender clean to that broken up blues sound to a cranked Marshall sound. The four ten inch speakers sound huge! The Tonemaster Super Reverb is the best in the Tonemaster series. Its the only one that also uses the same Jenson blue speakers made in Italy that you find in the tube reissues. Ive been cranking this amp everyday for over a year and i can say that i am very very pleased with this amp.

[@peterschaefer1665]

On the up side, it is a solid wood cab with a good speaker. If Fender does updates to improve the tone as their continuing research allows.

[@joeycharlebois6751]

I bought the blonde reverb deluxe Tonemaster and it has served me well. Especially constantly gigging around town, its super lightweight. Great pedal platform as well. FX loop would have checked ALL the boxes for this product. I am gonna to try tying the normal & vibrato channels together to see if that makes a difference

[@timmotel5804]

I bought a Tone Master Twin Reverb about 7 months ago. Great amp. Fortunately. Mine came with the better Jensen N-12K neodymium speakers. I am toying with swapping out one Jensen for one Celestion G12 Neo Creamback 12" for a nice mix of the two, that I have heard. Just bought a new '65 Super Reverb Reissue, to keep me in the tube world too.

[@misterknightowlandco]

These amps are for weekend warriors who play in cover bands at the elks lodge. A real touring musician gets their shyt for free, at a discount or if they have to buy their own gear then it’s a tax write off. These are for guys, like me, who want a good sound in the basement at a low enough volume so the Mrs won’t complain and if you do gig or jam it’s rarely at the elks lodge or a buddies garage. That’s who this is for. To me, I’ll stick with an 80’s peavey bandit, a kick ass pedal board and an American Strat.

[@marccarter1350]

Been loving your channel a great deal. I have been ion the market for an amp, I left with a 1991 early MIM Blues Jr which had received a Bias fix, new reverb tank, Russian tubes, G12H-75 Creamback. Delighted with it!

[@johnpearson4526]

Great topic and video. You sealed the deal with the Monty Python and the Holy Grail "I'm not old" reference!

[@mikeb5372]

I owe you a big thank you for responding to my question about the treble cap on my Fender Supersonic on the Vibrolux side of the clean channel. I managed to clip it out and now the sound is really good. So, thank you very much!

[@wmg1958]

Very informative. It's hard to think of an amp like a laptop (I've still got my first amp which I bought in 1976, my first laptop was heavier than this amp and is long gone) but it helps put things in perspective. I've played one of the Tone masters. It is convincing and stands on its own as a gigging tool.

[@PNWJEEPER01]

The technology is changing so fast right now that I'm as deep into the digital amp pool as I care to get at $150 for a used Boss Katana mkii 50. It keeps up volume-wise at gigs and jams, the tones are fantastic and you have access a digital representation of every stomp box Boss ever made.

[@jonathanbrazee3846]

I've had the twin tonemaster for over 2 years. I haven't been gentle with it and it still works perfect.

[@billyshears6622]

Excellent review. I agree with everything you said and for the same reasons. Yes, you can revert the firmware but you'd never want to! 🙉 The original black one is ice picky and kinda terrible. I upgraded the firmware and threw in a greenback I had, SO MUCH BETTER! Still not as good as a partially retubed 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb but damn close. You didn't mention the attenuator much and that is one of the surprise best features of the amp. It sounds GREAT even at lowest settings! Best attenuator experience I've ever had. The weight and that attenuator function are THE two main reasons to consider these IMO. If they added the fx loop and lowered the price to $500-$600 I'd buy one. No fx loop was a HUGE MISS! 🤦🏻‍♂️ C'mon Fender, it's not a vintage amp! 🙄

[@sgguitarzz]

I just ordered a Tonemaster Twin and really looking forward to using it. At 68 I just needed something lighter that still sounds good

[@TiagoMorbusSa]

Folks who think tube amps are a waste of time/money, I'm jealous of them. I've spend thousands over the years on digital stuff, cheap and expensive, and nothing gives me the fizz quite like some tubes. Even in the projects where I use my digital stuff because it's convenient or because I need a very specific sound, it's always SO good to go back to my tube amps and get them growling!

[@mrredritehand]

I've been using a Boss Nextone stage 40w combo for over 3yrs now. And I am a believer in the SS tube emulated amplifiers. I've been playing my acoustic with a behringer adi preamp into the front end and keeping up with a Peavy bandit and a hotrod deville, my other two guitar players are cranking. The Nextone has impressive tone and very versatile.

[@petergoddard1960]

I've seriously considered one of these, and will definitely try one out. However, as with all modelling amps, I see them as basically washing machines/fridges/dishwashers. If they go wrong, you're facing a repair bill somewhere in the region of the residual value or the prospect of replacing them. This is all very well with a Katana or a Catalyst but less attractive a proposition with the much more expensive Tone Masters. Having said that, I've had many amps over the last 40 years and I've never had one go down. Your new series of round ups is off to a superb start and I eagerly await the second instalment. Of course this all has to be tempered by the fact that amp techs are hard to find (I expect, increasingly so) especially really good ones like yourself.

[@steverolfeca]

My TMDR still soldiers on. I bought it slightly used at a significant discount, put an old Weber 125AO in it, updated the firmware, and haven’t had to touch it since. My back loves thanks me every time I move it, the v2.0 hardware never showed up to threaten the resale value, and I don’t miss an FX loop because I never had one in my old tweed and silverface Fenders. To my ear, it’s not as good as a great DR, but better than a bad one, and the attenuator is still peachy at 1 click down from wide open.

[@wesleymorris1]

I pulled the trigger on the tone master Princeton reverb, I'm very happy with it, it's close enough to tube in sound and feel, that it will save my amps from the 50's and 60's. If you hit the strings really quick it's not a reactive as a tube amp, and it has a lot of compression that's how they stimulate a tube. But I can't really hear much a difference. To me as long as it last a lifetime like a tube amp, I'm very happy with it. If anyone interested in one, if your use to the regular Princeton, it's close but not 100percent I would say about 90 percent the same. Reverb really nice, tremelo is garbage.its week and u can tell it's not tube. That rich tube trem is gonna be hard to emulate.

[@MrBallynally2]

I think Lyle mentioned that digital amps do not like to be pushed. Others have said it is mainly the circuit in which it operates that determins it's 'feel'. Personally i have never played a digital or SS amp that reacted the way a valve amp does at just over edge of breakup. It is stacking, cascading harmonics, pre and output stages, PT and OT.The whole system. Sag can be recreated, distortion also yet digital/SS amps tend to sound harsh when pushed. So, i see these amps as pure clean tone platforms with variable and controllable characteristics. Put pedals in front and you're good. Amp and speaker sims galore. All fine. But i'll keep using my valve amps. Ive gigged w Tonemasters( digital modeling) and Quilters (SS).Great amps, to a volume point after which they get harsh. So I still prefer my valve amps to get to 'the zone'. Now, there are many who would call me biased and use the ''BB King used ss'' line. Well, that would prove my point actually. BB's tone was clean and dynamic. Know the limitations and you're good. That goes for my valve amps as well.

[@petermcateer1354]

Great review. I did look at these a few months back, but opted instead for a Quilter SuperBlock US that I could use with the three cabs I have already.

[@DizzyKrissi]

I also use Quilter's exclusively over the past 3 years and I love them.

[@johnlawrence3170]

I definitely get the hesitancy with some of the digital stuff, in terms of questioning the longevity. Obviously, time will tell. A friend of mine still has my old Vox Valvetronix that I myself bought used. If that thing isn't 15 yrs old, it's approaching it soon. It still works just as good as it did when I bought it. The other thing with the quadcore processors in these Tone Masters, being that they are similar to a laptop processor, I highly doubt they're getting worked as hard or ran as hot as comparable components within a laptop. Components seem to be overbuilt, which is what we would hope to be true.

[@dmjazz]

I still have the original Line 6 Flextone combo amp from the late 90's, which from what I can remember was the first or one of the first digital modeling combo amps ever. It works perfect well over 20 years later and the footswitch does too. It hasnt been babied much either. It gigged for years and was used at an open mic "for anyone to play" every Tuesday for many years. Gigging it was used mostly to amp a fender rhodes piano and not guitar though. For open mic night it was there so guitar players didnt have to bring their rig to jam. Still works fine.

[@richardreed6538]

I own the Blonde edition and have spoken to a Fender rep before buying and the purpose of this was to replicate the Deluxe Reverb. If the original doesn’t have effects loop the tonemaster isn’t going to. I like that feature. I have put my Tonemaster in a room with a tube deluxe and covered the logo and no one could hear a difference in dynamics. They sound different yes, but not better or worse in a sense, just different. I have played and heard different tube deluxes and in a room they don’t sound the same either. Pot settings alone can be incredibly different between amps. Overall I love the Tonemaster blonde, one it’s is light, I mean incredibly light. No more Ben gay after carrying one. 2 it sounds fantastic, 3 great speaker, 4 great response as I don’t feel a delay in playing. If something happens I will be pissed but I am not going to have to take out a second mortgage to buy a new one. I also don’t think new iterations are going to add a bunch of gimmicks, the newly released Super Reverb didn’t, so I feel Fender is on to something here by not trying to throw a Helix in a box. They took all that processing power and made a deluxe reverb sound like a deluxe reverb. If Fender decides to do another say a Princeton or Basebreaker, I’d by one the day they hit. Princeton is my favorite fender amp and would love to have one I’m not terrified of blowing up. Give one a try. I enjoy mine immensely.

[@rskirk22]

I own the Tone Master Twin Reverb. I love that amp. It was my first serious purchase amp and it sounds great to me. But man, I really wish they had an effects loop!

[@acmercker5941]

Bought the blackface livery DR TM used. It wasn’t bad, but it wasn’t inspiring either. Almost straight into the closet it went while waiting for a g12 NEO Creamback to come in on back order. Did the firmware upgrade before the g12 came in. Much better. I can imagine another firmware update to the Rev and Vib but... the Rev is much improved. Bright cap “clipped” is great. Now that the NEO Creamback is installed (ty MojoTone) my amp is getting better as the speaker breaks in. The lower weight is a huge plus having lugged a tube Twin for a lot of years. Looking forward to the series. Really enjoying the channel. Keep up the great work.

[@promoted738]

Here's a comment for 2024 - I've been using the TM Super Reverb lately and I really like it. It's musical, satisfying (for what I do), looks nice (as Jim Campilongo said of Fender amps, "To me, they are a symbol of goodness...like a Christmas Tree)....I had a tube Super for a while and it was literally the first musical thing I ever heard as a little kid because my brother had a '65 Super and a Strat back in '71 when I was 5 so I know what I'm looking for when I hear one - the TM version scratches the itch pretty well. 36 pounds is nice - the line out is nice - the attenuation is a truly useful feature as well. Sure, one can split hairs about these things sitting in a quiet room doing a comparison - in a band mix on a stage I double dare you to pick out the digital over the tube version. All that said, I dig the Super over the other TM models and I think it's down to the 4 alnico Jensens moving air like the originals did.

[@SRHMusic012]

Interesting review. I'm still very happy with a Roland Blues Cube Artist, which has an effects loop, btw. I'll be curious to see direct comparisons, as the Blues Cubes are still out there new, and work really well on gigs. Cheers.

[@weschilton]

Keep in mind that Zac has one of these as a BACKUP to his real, vintage Deluxe Reverb, and ONLY because he gigs in Nashville which has live venues with arrogant soundmen who have a bizarre aversion to anyone using a real amplifier. I played with one of these at length and up against a '65 Deluxe Reverb reissue and my 1967 Deluxe Reverb. Compared to the reissue, it sounded brittle and the reverb was very "digital" sounding. Compared to my 55 year-old Deluxe Reverb it sounded like an pale imitation of a shadow of a Deluxe Reverb. Considering the high cost of a Tonemaster, it makes a lot more sense to just buy the reissue and put a good speaker in it. These amps will be valueless in a few years, especially after Fender stops supporting them.

[@shckltnebay]

I feel the same way about the reissues compared to a vintage amp

[@Chuffin_ell]

Wes, Just a curious question…there are plethora of techs who can duplicate the black face Deluxe as a clone. Yeh, it’s not pure in its aesthetic, but one could reasonably expect the same performance and reliability as an original. Is there a taboo keeping “pro” musicians from playing clone rigs?

[@shckltnebay]

@@Chuffin_ell Ive tried a Vintage sound amp and a VVT and they don't sound like my real 68 Princeton Reverb which I have a G12g heritage installed, also recapped a 69 Dual Showman that sounded better then a 65 Twin I recapped.

[@baldpaulstudios7023]

Its all subjective but I'm a tube amp collector and tone chasing gear snob. I'm not afraid to admit these amps sound great and are good for touring. I'll even admit that I bought the Soldano plugin for Neural DSP and now find myself having more fun at my desk than setting up my amps. The sounds of todays digital are inspiring and fun to play. As much as I hate to admit it.

[@weschilton]

@@Chuffin_ell I don't see why there would be... unless, as Lyle has seen, the builder cuts corners on safety or reliability. There are lots of great sounding, well-made boutique amps... but the price can be high, sometimes higher than a vintage amp even after it has been serviced.

[@The2ndProtectsTheRest]

I recently replaced the 2 10” greenbacks that were in my Vibrolux Reverb the a pair of thr Eminence Alessandro GA10-SC64’s and OMG!!! What a difference! My amp has come ALIVE!!!!

[@587583922]

The reason they don’t have effects loops is that it’s a digital amp…adding an effects loop would about double the input to speaker latency….assuming you don’t use digital effects in the loop, in which case it would be even higher. At some point, that’ll matter. And people will complain. Your HX stomp example would be better served using it for the amp sound and bolting a similar ice power amp to a similar cab. If you don’t specifically want to change IRs, that might be the best way to do modeling.

[@PsionicAudio]

AxeFX. Kemper. Digital. Loops.

[@rickwiggins283]

Thank you for the video. It speaks volumes from Fender (or at least your local Fender dealer) that they wouldn't help you out at all.

[@RobertD-y42]

Years ago, I had a Fender Cyber Deluxe. I did not like the clean or distorted tones and sold it to a guy who loved it.

[@davidcudlip6587]

Had the Tonemaster Deluxe blonde. Traded it for the Tonemaster Super Reverb. Light weight and an attenuator that allows me to play it anywhere without blowing out the windows. Love this amp with single coils or humbuckers. P 90's sound great thru this thing.

[@jongpm]

Thank you so much for your videos. They've helped me explore my interest in electronics and more importantly have made me a much more careful and responsible owner of guitars and amps. This video, and your other videos on designs with lots of surface mount components have really given me an appreciation for the significance of ease of component-level repair for the longevity of a design. I'm a young person who's recently started his career after graduating and am finally coming into real money, and therefore I can finally shop for a tube amp besides the peavey classic 50 that got me through my school years. Looking at the market now as a potential buyer, I really get turned off by how little manufacturers and reviewers alike care for or even consider repairability and longevity beyond warranty. It's made me exceedingly wary of investing serious money in an amp (that and living in an apartment 😄). I'm really looking forward to your series going over the current market.

[@peterschaefer1665]

Years down the road it will become an extention speaker cabinet😊

[@socallars3748]

Damn...just yesterday I was hoping you'd get around to mentioning these. Stop reading my mind, Lyle!! Time to watch and listen!

[@michaelwbuncher7599]

The super reverb tone master makes sense to me as it will be a lighter solution for when you need a solid amount of power, as well as it has the attenuator which to my brain makes more and more sense on more powerful amps. On a deluxe? Some sense but not enough over the DRRI which isn't too light but it's easy enough to get around with and has pretty solid range of usable volume. The price difference from 65 reissue to tonemaster also makes the super a much more compelling choice as the price difference is much larger there than between the 65 DRRI and the DR Tonemaster.

[@michaelwbuncher7599]

Nevermind, for some reason I now see that the deluxe TM is 100 watts and the super reverb tone master is 45....odd.

[@PsionicAudio]

Old Twins are 80W. Old SRs are about 45W.

[@michaelwbuncher7599]

@@PsionicAudio Yes, still I don't get the logic of bumping the 22-watt DR to 100 for a TM version but leaving the Super reverb at 45 for it's TM version.

[@Lynx33PL]

I'm a bedroom warrior with an HX Stomp and no interest in amps right now but I very much appreciate the "old-school" perspective, as long as it includes actual points, which yours certainly does. Especially because this video was mostly about the ease of repair and long-term value for money - which are both important and valid considerations - not about the analog vs digital tone debate. What's your stance on straight-up, analog, solid state amps? I know they were mostly relegated to the budget/practice amp segment of the market but there are a few that are well regarded when it comes to the sound and functionality (Roland JC40-120, Blues Cube, Quilter stuff). I'd imagine they wouldn't be as difficult to repair as digital solutions with proprietary tech and CPUs inside of them?

[@stratolestele7611]

You're missing out - having speakers move air is absolutely part of the fun and no pedal, plug-in, software can change the physics of moving air.

[@DR-nh6oo]

Thanks for this, I will definitely be keeping this baby at home…I bought it because some bastard stole my old fender and this one was so easy to carry, but mostly because my local music store has interest free financing. I will be saving up and looking for a vintage tube amp, and paying a roadie, if I ever get a chance to play outside again..

[@RossD8]

Excellent video and very informative. A question/observation: I've been a fan/user of modeling amps since Johnson Amplifications' Millennium. Your video, and a few others was the first time reliability and repair were mentioned in any type of review or evaluation.At least that I've encountered. It's understood that things break and malfunction, even in the digital domain. Yet the Tone Master reviews are the first instance where reliability and replacement availability were brought into the purchasing decision for consumers. Is the Tone Master more fragile that digital amps of the past? Your attention to this matter is appreciated yet I wonder why this is the first time I've encountered it. Please feel free to set me straight if it's just something I've missed all these years. Full disclosure: I've had remarkable luck with the many digital devices, amps, guitars and effects I've played throughout the years. Virtually no breakdowns or repairs, save for a bad piezo on a Line 6 acoustic guitar years ago.

[@PsionicAudio]

Most modeling combos are in the $300-500 range. So expectations are lower for reliability. Fender is charging about $1k for the Deluxe, so one might expect more from it. I have my doubts.

[@inthestudy]

@@PsionicAudio I've had at least 2 modelling amps die irreparably on me. They were $300 amps and they lasted rather less than a decade.

[@thewrongbike7709]

So now they are out of warrantee. How many have come back for repair? What has failed?

[@MetalZoned]

The lack of an effects loop is a dealbreaker for me. Every new amp in the 2020s should have one.

[@MetalZoned]

@Gary I know. I still think every modern amp should have an effects loop.

[@MetalZoned]

@Gary yep, agreed on that, which is a shame because I think they sound great

[@Satchmoeddie]

A lot of the warranty repair work on this new stuff involves using tools like hammers, crowbars, muscles, concrete and gravity. You destroy it beyond repair and Fender just credits your store for a new Fender amp. If you don't have it in stock they ship a new one to your store. It's cheaper than paying a STORE tech to monkey around with it.

[@fluffykittynoodles]

With the ongoing struggle with my Hot Rod Deluxe mk4, I don't ever want to buy another Fender amp. I love the way they sound, really don't appreciate the way they're put together.

[@SRHMusic012]

I'm in the same boat after seeing some fundamental issues in the HRD II I had and worked on a bit.

[@supersonicsroots]

First of all, it's pretty stupid to say that the C12K is a "terrible" sounding speaker. It's pretty much just your opinion. Personally I (and literally thousands of guitarplayers around the world) don't swap it and have loved this speaker for decades. I'm gigging a few weeks now with the Twin Reverb Tonemaster and has of course these same two C12k's neodymium speakers, and they sound absolutely great. Like a tube Twin should sound with Jensen's, scooped mids. The Celestions in the newer blond versions don't sound anywhere like a Fender amp, too much mid and less headroom. But that's my opinion as well. As far as reliability and longevity.. it's 1000 dollar amp, designed and built for gigging musicians. With all it's conveniences, like output XLR with a very decent sounding cab sim, attenuation and most importantly... light weight! It's also not suppose to be a multi-tool, but just a great sounding almost exact emulation of 1 particular amp, as close as possible. I really don't need 50 different amps to choose from, or 300 effects... just one great sounding pedal platform. And I think Fender really nailed it with this one. My 1000 dollars computers also died within 5-10 years, my 800 dollar phone died within 3 years, my 900 dollars smart TV died in 6 years. So, my point being, it's not an "investment" product, it's just a tool. I suppose it will last 5 years, probably more, that's 200 dollars a year. Not bad at all for the convenience it gives me. It's not designed to be constantly serviced or whatever. When my smart tv died, I didn't bring it in to have it repaired. It would probably be more expensive than just buying a new one. I didn't replace the motherboard when my computer died, I bought a new computer. And I treat the Tonemaster the same way. As you said, like a laptop. Not like an investment amp or to sell it for great money in 5-10-15 years. And again, I don't need more features, I really hope Fender sticks with this idea, no effects loop, no IR loading, no 50 amps or effects to choose from. Please no... I'd buy a Helix or Kemper or Katana if I'd wanted that, literally 'every' modeling amp has these overwhelming set of features where most people only use one or two amp sims anyway These things are for another kind of user. Oh.. and did I say it sounds awesome? On a big or small stage, full band setup, loud live gig.. not a single person that would be able to tell whether I'm playing a 'real' Twin Reverb tube amp or a Tonemaster. That's what I can promise you. Maybe if you'd A-B it right next to a tube version, you'd hear some small subtle differences, a different "feel" but these will dissappear in a full band setup or recording. Personally I think this is the best sounding tube-less amp I've ever heard, and I'm still a tube amp lover myself. I've had several (Fender) tube amps and I still have now. But lugging them around a few times a week gets pretty old after a while. My back thanks me. Thanks or the video.

[@wmg1958]

This reply was as well considered as the video itself.

[@supersonicsroots]

@@wmg1958 well, just my 2 cents.

[@wmg1958]

@@supersonicsroots thoughtful writing such as this is worth a lot more than 2 cents any day. Curious how the Champion 100 would stack up in your opinion since those can be found for a relatively cheaper price. I totally get the points the original post was making and this was a good counterbalance.

[@supersonicsroots]

@@wmg1958 Thanks Bill, I think the Champion 100 will have more of a solid state sound (obviously) since it's not designed to be be a modeling amp. The difference will be half the power, so if you need volume and headroom you'd be better off with the Twin. The Champion has some things like built in effects and an effects loop and also has a headphone out. To be honest, they're 2 different kind of amps for different kind of players. Soundwise the major difference will be that the Twin is 100% built to emulate it's tube brother. But that doesn't mean the Champion doesn't sound great of course, and its a lot cheaper. Good luck with your choice!

[@shanemorgan8910]

The effects loop thing won’t be an issue. These are supposed to pretty much be the reissue amps, but more affordable, digital versions. I don’t see there being those kinds of updates in the tonemaster line ever since the originals they’re based on don’t have it.

[@TurboMountTV]

You want to turn a Tone Master into a Super Tone Master...? Put the Fender MTG Tube Distortion Pedal in front of it. It gives it that warm-tube feeling & sound that fills the room just like tube amps do. Very low gain / high volume settings to keep it clean. Up the gain lower the volume to get tube break up / dirty / distortion. HIgh mids if you want that sound. It is basically now your pre-amp, a tube one. Fender should make this pedal mandatory with each amp, it is THAT good of a combination. I did it to the Twin, and I assume it would have same affect to the Deluxe. On top of that I bought both Black and Twin to compare, and ended up swapping the speakers. So it now has 1 British Celestion and 1 American Jensen speaker because I am a picky dumb ass who couldn't decide which one to keep. By accident I discovered that this is an amazing combination that HAS to be HEARD to be believed. With the pedal it is like a Boutique amp turning this into a Super Super Tone Master that can play any style you want with tube realism, yet with digital control for various volumes you want to play at ---The big TM advantage in first place Problem with swap: Now I have 2. Sweetwater is very open with returns as they agreed to let me return one after testing both, but obviously I cant return a modded amp. For Sale: 1 Amazing Super Super Tone Master Twin Reverb -- Austin Texas.

[@leewarren]

Thank you for this, Lyle. Your insight (especially about the speakers used) has helped focus my decision on a blonde TM Deluxe. I hope it will coexist, and bridge the gap, between my old tube guitar amps and ss pedal steel amps. Lee

[@brandonbutler8808]

Great videos as always, great objective analysis of the Tone Master, I will have to try one… Looking forward to the next $1000 series

[@8odycount]

I have the TMDR and it's awesome. Very happy with it. Didn't came to play it live tho. Only in rehearsal yet.

[@peterschaefer1665]

I agree that an effects loop would be an improvement.

[@andrewgarcia3136]

i'm young. i insist on real amps and speakers and i prefer tubes and transistors to modeling. there are plenty of analog snobs who aren't middle aged or older.

[@TFW9596]

Stone Gossard (Pearl Jam) is using one on tour this year.

[@ctcards2636]

Im a tube snob. But recently ive found a few interesting amps. One is a One Control 66. 100watt SS fender style amp. Very very good tone. No tubes. Weighs nothing. But what I use today is the other interesting amp. SMS Classic Tube Preamp (based on a Twin) 2 - 12ax7 tubes. That goes into an ART SLA-1 poweramp. Reason why im talking about this setup is because, This setup is as close to not using tubes as I can get that delivers what a tube amp does. I am still not sold on amp without any tubes. Id like to try this fender amp out, but firmware etc sounds like this amp will always be being updated to try to sound like.... a tube amp. lol! I really dont think you will ever 100% get SS to sound exactly like a tube amp. But there are some good options out there for people to try. I think if your trying to ditch the tubes, try not to ditch them all at once ;-)

[@ctcards2636]

I recently got a Milkman pedal/amp. Its suppose to be a Deluxe and boy does it nail the tone all in a little box the size of a Q-Tron+ pedal. It uses one 12ax7 preamp tube. Def check em out as this and the SMS are the best two options ive tried for almost all SS amps in the Fender tone realm.

[@antoonhermans8953]

Hello Lyle , let me correct you on a thing or two , the jensen neo speaker is not based on the C12K speaker , it is based on a jensen alnico speaker , also the frimware update is not needed if you have the black version ( wich i do for 2 years now ) , to my ears is sounds fine the way it is and i don't like the sound with the firmware upgrade and the celestion neo ( i realize this is an taste thing so everybody will have is own opinion on that ) , also an effect loop is not needed , my time related pedals sound fine just in front off the amp , also the resale value is fairly good , here in holland they cost about 950 euro new since there on the market and i see them being sold 2e hand for 700 euro on the markerplace site , so that's not to bad either . All in all , not to bad , but yes , will they last ? , only time will tell , it's good to see they can be repaired though ( wich was one off my worries ) , luckaly i live near to the official dutch fender service center , so we'll wait and see, but for me at least this is an perfect solution amp , good sounds , not to heavy , ect. and i also use an behringer P1 so i can play silent with my headphones wich is an extra plus , the behringer P1 only cost me 50 euro's and an short xlr cable for 5 euro's , so that's not too many extra money to have this extra function with this amp . I have been a tubesnob for 40 years , but those day's are over , i am sticking with my tonemaster dr . Like you're vids , grt , Toon.

[@PsionicAudio]

Fender spent five minutes in their video explaining how they painstakingly modeled the sound of the C12K.

[@antoonhermans8953]

@@PsionicAudio mmm , well that's news for me , haha : ) , but to be frank , i don't give a .... where this jensen neo is modeled after , all i know for sure is the fact it sounds ok to me and like i said i don't like the sound off the celestion neo and firmware upgrades . We all know sound is an subjectiv thing , but for me the fender / jensen marriage is made in tone heaven : )

[@WCG72]

I would consider one if they can guarantee me more than 2 years of support. I had a mustang 3 v.2 for two years and then they stopped supporting the fuse software that worked with it. Shortly after that things started going wrong with the amp. Like the stereo XLR outputs stopped working, which I used to hook up to my DAW. Never mind the fact that trying to work with the onboard controls was a nightmare compared to the software that stopped working.

[@vincentmoserblues]

Thanks for this video ! I got my TMDR Blonde with the Celestion Neo Creamback a few month ago and gigged it 5 or 6 times. The amp seems to be well made. I also have a 1974 Pro Reverb ( non Master volume ) and two VOX AC 15 C 1 s. I had a tube Deluxe Reverb Reissue with the stock Jensen . The TMDR Blonde sounds better in my opinion. Both with humbuckers and single coils. I play in three Blues Bands and use no pedals. I love the looks and the light weight. The output power selector switch works great and is very useful when playing in small clubs. Here in Germany we get a three year warranty from the dealer. I have nothing to complain yet.

[@DizzyKrissi]

Hallo Vincent - verwendest Du den Tonemaster auf den Videos, die man auf Deinem Kanal findet (Freddie King Covers)???

[@vincentmoserblues]

@@DizzyKrissi Hallo DizzyKrissi, nö, meistens habe ich einen 65' Princeton Reverb RI oder einen Vox AC 15 C1 Tan Bronco benutzt. Oder was so auf den Bühnen herumstand. Z.B. bei San-Ho-Zay und Blues One The Westside wars ein 12 Watt Fender Vaporizer 2x10. Im Cotton Club ist es manchmal ein Princeton Reverb II. Pedals benutze ich nicht. Danke für das Interesse !

[@DizzyKrissi]

@@vincentmoserblues Danke!

[@vincentmoserblues]

@@DizzyKrissi Gerne ! Ich hab noch einen zweiten KZbin Kanal. Da ist z.b. Sen-Sa-Shun dabei. In meiner 1. Antwort habe ich mich geirrt und San-Ho-Zay eingetippt. Sorry.

[@DizzyKrissi]

@@vincentmoserblues : ich kannte nur San ho Zay - muss mal meine Freddie King Alben durchstöbern. Ich spiele seit 3 Jahren nur noch Quilter Amps und bin sehr zufrieden. Aber Du weißt ja wie das ist: Gitarristen und Equipment.