Pumping a Hydrofoil | Which rear wing and fuselage works best?

Pumping a Hydrofoil | Which rear wing and fuselage works best? | Foiling NY
We’ve discovered that high wingspan, high aspect ratio hydrofoil wings are great for pumping distance and duration. These front wings have lower drag and can glide further than lower aspect ratio foil wings. But what rear wing & fuselage is best for pumping? In this video, we explore different shapes and sizes of rear wings, as well as different lengths of fuselages to see which one enables the longest flatwater pumping distance & duration.
Promotion Disclosure: I would like to thank Nick O'Bea for sending his personal rear wing to me & for AXIS loaning me rear wing & fuselage demo equipment for this opportunity to learn about rear wings and fuselages & share the results with you.

[@Justin-bw8zi]

Really, really appreciate the truly objective and technical discussion. Further, you A|B tests are as close as viable objectively reviewing the combinations. Thanks for bringing such a learned lens to foil progression for the rest of us!!

[@WakeThief]

You’re welcome. Loving the sharing as much as the learning!

[@jonbleiker]

Seconded! Super useful info. Thanks!

[@colomacountry]

@@WakeThief curious what you think about wing foiling and which Axus setup would you use, I'm going for speed, glide and stability with stable carving?

[@WakeThief]

I’m not an expert but 1050 black series and 1300 had great speed and glide … and of course the new ART999 seems exceptional here. Please check out all three review on our channel. Happy to try to answer any questions you have.

[@Yanivkahana]

Great review! can't wait to see review on the Progressive Rear wings soon!

[@WakeThief]

Thanks, Yaniv! I will be trying them soon! Will certainly review.

[@martinpfortner4424]

Thanks for sharing your experience, It´s Great.

[@WakeThief]

Thanks, Martin. I'm loving every minute of it. I'm working on another rear wing review that I will share soon, so please watch out for it. Thanks.

[@StandUpMagazin]

Nicely done!

[@WakeThief]

Thank you. I appreciate the comment

[@andylitespeed]

Great work, am really looking forward to the rear stabilizer carving review!

[@WakeThief]

Pls subscribe and set notifications to on to be notified of the video when it launches next week

[@garrettpeterson9816]

I'm going to look for this video now 😀 I want to pump but also carve very well behind a boat. I was thinking ultrashort -short fuselage with 370 rear. But your pump and glide with the longer fuse and the fatter tail look really nice. But I think I would rather have carve then additional pump. 😃 ​@@WakeThief

[@martinjaure1310]

Hey Thanks for all the vids. Really good info. Could you please possibly add how much you travel on each foil in relation to time (effectively speed). I think this is important as, say you put 10% more effort to pump but travel 30% longer in the same amount of time on one set up, that’d probably be a better setup. Cheers.

[@ming00n]

Great work, looking forward to watching the next clip! Have you tried the 16mm mast? Supposed to be less drag and heard of a few using them with big wings.

[@WakeThief]

I have not but it’s on my wishlist. Thanks for sharing. I appreciate the comment.

[@svenalex514]

Hi, thanks for every little piece of Your work, it helps to get an overview for what is really important for pumping. Since 1 year I pump twice a week starting from the dock, using the Gong 120cm , 2800sqcm foil with the kite 45cm stab. What is Your secret to pump more than 1.30 minutes?

[@WakeThief]

Sven Alex - I don’t believe there’s a secret. There are six things I think about, plus the wing selection helps! I have found that a high aspect ratio, high area wing helps. I’ve been using a ~7 aspect ratio wing @1800sqcm (AXIS 1150) and found this has worked best. Please see the six tips & tricks here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqq3iXtshq5oo9E. I hope it helps. Please ask any further questions you might have. Good luck!

[@FunkMasterTex]

Very Helpful. I just started looking into hydro foils. I'm wondering what mast length works best for pumping. Additionally, which pumping set up do you think would work best to compliment a wing/sail for days that you want to have some added help from mother nature? Thanks again for the video. You're the man.

[@WakeThief]

Hey Mitchell - Happy to help. I like 75cm, but mast length is really about preference. Please email me at [e-mail]. Happy to answer any other questions you have and figure out a setup that works for you.

[@GARAASJ]

Great video man! I've been wanting to get into foil pumping and foil surfing for a while now besides windfoiling so I can make the most out of windless days, but before I start I would love to get some quick advice. Currently I windfoil the RRD whu alu 85 windfoil (85 mast, 120 fuse, 726m2 80cm high aspect front wing) and was wondering if it's worth to start the learning process on this foil, before switching to something dedicated. This foil is on the 'race ' side of the windfoil spectrum. The long fuse is very stable and gives lots of lift but stalls sooner than 'freeride' foils. I'd love to hear your toughts!

[@WakeThief]

My first foil was about that size. I couldn’t pump. For surfing you will want a smaller wing than pumping. Email me at [e-mail]. Happy to discuss further.

[@scnomad3626]

Thanks for this test. I’d be super interested in seeing how these compare with the Slingshot wings. Are you limited to Axis testing?

[@WakeThief]

I have reviewed a number of wings, including Slingshot. Please find it here. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bneqaauBiMxgmbM

[@plaineduloup184]

Thanks for the great video. Have you tried the Fanatic foil? Best

[@WakeThief]

Thank you Plaine. I have not tried Fanatic. Only slingshot and AXIS. Is there a Fanatic foil you recommend I try? Thank you for the comment!

[@HadrienBRUNNER]

I Love your videos ! very technical and you make really detailed testing. you helped me to get a better understanding of the Axis range. I'm about to get 75 and 90cm Masts for wingfoiling and surfoiling, plus the 460 ans 370 rear wing with the 900 and 1150 front wing (you convinced me for the last one ;-) ) Ultrashort fuselage seem to be a good and versatile length to start with. On your Intro we see you're using a Carbon Mast , right ? any thought about this one ? can you get a lighter combo and more stiffness ? we don't have any information on these expensive masts. I'm interested if you have any experience to share. Thanks in advance ;-) . Hadou

[@WakeThief]

Thanks Hadou! I have been using the standard aluminum masts. They’re very stiff. The carbon masts have a larger thickness near base plate & smaller thickness near wing (helps reduce drag). I have never tried the 90cm mast. Would love your thoughts. The 460mm rear wing is impressive. I am certain you will enjoy. I’m going to explore carving now with each of the rear wings and fuselages. Will share that video soon

[@HadrienBRUNNER]

@@WakeThief Thanks ! for the price difference, Aluminium masts seem to be very very good. i'm mainly into Wingfoiling that's why I choose the 90cm mast. 75cm mast will be for surf foiling and...learning Dockstart ! (I guess 90cm is too long for dockstarting). i'm a complete beginner in this practice and the 1150 front wing might help. Did you try dockstarting with the 910 ? is it big enough ? Thanks again for your contents, you are the only person who makes content on Axis Foils except the brand itself and one of their rider (Larry Foiler ?) Looking forward to see your next videos . 👍👏👏🚀

[@WakeThief]

Thank you. I have not yet dock started the 910. I’m 190lb / 86kg. I think it should be possible but tougher compared to the 1150.

[@andylitespeed]

For what it's worth, I have just bought the 82cm, 19mm, alloy mast and am loving it for our (often) short steep sea state. Cross/Downwinding I used to breach at speed on the 75cm, (largely lack of skill no doubt) but have not had that problem with the 82cm mast. They might still be in short supply though. I was talking to Adrian at the beach and saying I was thinking of getting a 90cm when he mentioned the 82cm. I also have an Axis carbon mast (a prototype) also (75cm). With the carbon mast there is very slightly less drag, at speed, when on foil. It is not stiffer but rather has a slight "spring back" from a tight carve, it is also slightly lighter. I have given it to my wife for now.

[@christophemeletiou9078]

Thanks for this review. Does mast length have any influence on pumping?

[@WakeThief]

I haven’t explored different pumping distances & lengths for different mast lengths. I’m theory, a longer mast means enables more potential energy when board/rider is higher above the water. In practice, I am finding that a smaller stroke is more effective negating the value of a longer mast.

[@azz1azz]

I mainly SUP surf foil with the 820 and 920 front wings. I like them both. I can pump the 920 for about 30-40 meters when I come off a wave (I have the 68cm mast, Standard fuse and 440 tail). I weigh 76kg. I'm looking at maybe getting the 910 or 1010 for better pumping action. Is the 1010 much stiffer to turn than the 910 ? I do realize they are part of the "glide series" thus really not full surfing wings. Which one out of the 910 of 1010 would you recommend for playing around in small waves with good pumping ? thanks Aaron

[@WakeThief]

Hi Aaron - I am 10kg heavier than you and really like the 910. I think it’s well suited to your weight. I believe the 910 and 1010 are similarly stiff, while the 1150 is designed to be stiffer. To be sure, I’d recommend asking AXIS. The 910 review is here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4SzgXx4rputsKs. Please ask any questions you might have.

[@albankalama]

hi pumping with the 1150 crazy short fuselage (585mm ) and no rear wing ? easier ? the best is : the crazy short fuselage for pumping ? i've the 1150 , the 460 rear wing, short fuselage thanks for sharing

[@Beast-gj1hk]

Thoughts on slingshot f pump

[@alexandrehemery8712]

Hey there! Thanks for the comparison, really appreciated. I was wondering if you tried the windsurf fuselage (880 mm) would it be even better than the standard one? Or would it be too much for pumping? Thanks a lot

[@WakeThief]

I sure did! Great question. The distance from the mast to the front wing was just too much for the windsurf fuse. It really torqued the mast when I yawed the foil (more lever arm). I mostly ride the short now which is a nice balance between good pumping and good carving.

[@nicktannehill5818]

this thing is amazing. I grew up on the water and this looks fun and a good workout at the same time.

[@WakeThief]

Awesome! I wish I discovered sooner than I did! Happy to help you spec a foil if you’re interested. Weight? Boardsports skill level? How do you want to use it? [e-mail]

[@gramgramgram6272]

I love this comparison but from what I’ve heard, and from the looks of your video, you were covering more ground with the short fuse and the high tempo pump. You may not have had a longer endurance but if you were going faster then it’s a considerable trade off. Do you remember if that was the case?

[@WakeThief]

Thanks for the comment and question. These were the days before my Apple Watch so hard to say! If you skip to the end of this video you’ll see my current view is that I might go farther by going slower ... we will see! Thanks again for the comment. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5m2pnyZp953d68.

[@marcbmxx]

Really great video!! Would you mind sharing your experience using no rear wing. ? Also, if you are a beginner. Would it be easier to pump on a short or long fuselage? Thanks

[@WakeThief]

Thank you! Great question. Nearly impossible to pump without rear wing because it’s hard to initiate the pump and stop it when it’s done. Longer fuse is easier to learn beasts you have better control when pitching foil up and down. Please don’t hesitate to reach out. [e-mail]

[@WakeThief]

This might help explain it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4nIpJ6Ie5mde6M

[@philipbraun]

That's exactly the setup that I was considering and I am stocked about the test with the 460mm rear wing. I would love to see a test with the same setup but with the ultra short fuselage (62.5). Is there any chance you would try that? Thanks a lot! Fingers crossed!

[@WakeThief]

Philip. I can definitely do it. I’m working on a video now comparing more rear wings but I didn’t use ultra short. My lake is frozen so it will have to wait a few weeks. Sorry about that

[@philipbraun]

@@WakeThief no worries thanks s lot happy to wait a few weeks 👍👌

[@powis-tv8ln]

Did you ever try the 460 flat or other larger wings with the crazy short fuselage?

[@WakeThief]

Yes

[@gerrys6265]

Thanks..great video comparison. I would really like to hear a discussion/explanation of the theory. It seems obvious to me that a larger rear wing would be preferable than a smaller one. Wouldn't a larger surface 'automatically' create more lift and glide (lift is high aspect)...longer glide = less pump? There must be a formula of some kind that would provide a workable starting point for front vs rear ratios and fuselage length...one that an average non-mathematical person could understand. High lift vs high aspect on both? High lift front and high aspect on rear? How much does fuselage length alter pumpability with the same two wings? I know there are many variables, but when you change more than one thing at a time you never really know (or learn) much to move intelligent experimentation forward. This comes from someone who has not yet (but just about to) tried foiling....just trying to make sense of it all before making a purchase. Thanks so much for everyone's videos and teaching on this topic.

[@WakeThief]

Thank you, Gerry. I have found that the rear wing (sometimes called the stabilizer) helps in three ways: (1) controls the pitching of the foil up/down, (2) helps generate a heaving force to help propel the foil forward, and (3) helps initiative movement with your back foot (rolling or yawing). Some say that you want the smallest rear wing possible, as you want front wing to provide lift and rear wing to stabilize. I have found that for pumping I like a larger rear wing, and high aspect so the drag is lower. The longer the fuselage, the more moment the rear wing has on the pitch. I have found that a longer fuse allows for a smaller rear wing, as you can generate similar heaving force with a smaller fuse and a larger rear wing. I am not an expert, but have asked the experts in this space, and I hear a lot of different views. I have also talked to hydrodynamics professors at some of the leading universities and some had never even heard of hydrofoiling like we're doing here. We're all charting new ground. There's so much to learn, and I am thoroughly enjoying learning with everyone else. If I can be helpful in any way, please reach out on facebook @Foiling NY

[@gerrys6265]

@@WakeThief Thanks. I will continue to listen to discussion and then pick what my intuition does with that information when the time comes. Happy 'flying'

[@Joshcodes808]

Have you tested the “windsurfing fuselage” since this test as it seems longer is better for pumping?

[@WakeThief]

Brilliant question! Yes, if the standard was best for pumping long distance / duration I had to try the windsurf. So, we did ... and we found it to work not as well. The distance from the mast connection to the fuselage to the front wing was longer, so the proportions were a bit different, and I was unable to slide the mast back far enough in the track to get it in the sweet spot, so it didn't work. Thus, the standard is still best for pumping and short best overall! Thanks for the great question!

[@Joshcodes808]

Thank you for the excellent reply!

[@Mickfoil1]

Great video yet again! Could you kindly tell me what is the distance of the standard fuselage measured from the axis front wing tip to the rear end of the tail wing? Also would you say there is earlier lift (ie more low speed lift) with a longer fuselage vs a shorter fuselage?

[@WakeThief]

80.5cm. It should change low speed lift / takeoff but a longer fuse provides more precise pitch control so you should be able to find that perfect angle of attack for takeoff easier

[@anthonycraig274]

How long did it take you to be this good? This was last year.

[@WakeThief]

I started foiling three years ago. I think it takes about 20-50 hours to get someone pumping around the lake with comfort. I have a lot of hours into it now ... probably 250+ hours. My learning has slowed down quite a bit since 100 hours.

[@BiasedCookie]

Ok so here is an idea. Install bellow system on the board. In theory you might be able to use air to help with propulsion. Make some sort of air jet on the bottom. Put a pedal on the board and use pumping momentum to push bellow open and closed thus pushing air out under neath to help provide thrust. Or maybe make a lever system 🤔

[@WakeThief]

That would be awesome. Or take a compressed air tank and have it release!

[@apricotscrub]

Any update to your favorite fuse and tail for pumping duration?

[@WakeThief]

I still like this combo.

[@pump-foil]

I was wondering which setup is the best for beginners to start and optimize their chances on the dockstart and first pumpings ?

[@WakeThief]

I would recommend this setup from Indiana for beginners that want to dock start with highest probability, but I think learning this sport from dock start only is hard ... It really helps to get a boat / jet ski to get to learn flight, balance, and eventually pumping.

[@WakeThief]

To buy, click here: indiana-paddlesurf.us/shop/complete-foils.html?Indiana-us=9pOW1s6UOe&referring_service=link For those outside of the US/Canada, please find Indiana here: www.indiana-paddlesurf.ch/en

[@pump-foil]

@@WakeThief sorry my question was relative to the video so I ment "which rear wing/ fuselage from axis work best to facilitate learning pumping.

[@WakeThief]

Sorry about that! Longer fuse, and larger rear wing both help ... the give pitch stiffness which makes it more forgiving when you land on board imperfectly. Just don't go too big on rear wing if you also want a fun pumping experience.

[@stevesantagati2264]

Hi I’m trying to get n touch with you regarding building a bungee setup. My friend Rod (hood river) says you[re the man to ask. I cant put email or personal stuff here so how can I get in touch? Thanks steve

[@WakeThief]

Hey Steve. Pls email me at [e-mail]

[@CS-eh8eo]

how would this compare to say a 1900 or 2100 cm2 front wing?

[@WakeThief]

As area goes up, the speed can go down. Generally, more area does mean more drag (though depends on the foil cross section shape)

[@antonmaier2263]

are you sure that the rear wing is producing lift?

[@WakeThief]

The rear wing is a downward force in steady flight, as it's mounted with a negative angle and usually has an upside down foil section (but not always). However, when pumping, during the drive phase, the incoming water hits the rear wing at a positive angle of attack, so it produces lift.

[@antonmaier2263]

@@WakeThief thank you thats very helpful

[@fredstah714]

What’s the info on your board you are using?

[@WakeThief]

Dwarfcraft 3’6”micro from slingshot. It’s 10.5L

[@WakeThief]

It’s the 2019 model. 2021 models quite similar

[@WakeThief]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2bOqHZtmtSDhLc

[@fredstah714]

This is my first time doing it. I hope I’ll do well with this set-up.

[@WakeThief]

What setup do you have?