Pumping Three Quarter Inch Stars Using a Star Plate

[@nedgorski]

Important You'll notice that "Wear a respirator" is one of the safety commandments. I like to use a dust and solvent fumes rated two-cartridge respirator when working with solvents very much, or when dealing with hazardous dusts. I made these stars and video yesterday, though: I mention in the video that I much prefer to work outdoors with such dusts, especially bariums and potassium dichromate, etc., the hazardous chems we use. I also mention that making a video like that requires that I work indoors, and without a respirator. Well, almost immediately during and after making several batches of those stars, some of which I used a dust-mask for, but not a respirator, I started to cough a little, had a bit of a runny nose, felt flushed in the head and "hot", etc. I just figured that I was getting another bug from the little kids who hang around here, but I did notice the alcohol fumes started to get to me at one point, and somewhere in the back of my head I thought, "I wonder if all this has to do with the not-working-outdoors, and not wearing a good respirator." Today, I truly feel like shit. I've worked a little, priming another batch of stars, but have spent most of my day in bed. "What if a rookie is tackling these barium, alcohol bound stars right now?", I pondered. What does the MSDS for denatured alcohol say? engineering.case.edu/thinkbox/sites/engineering.case.edu.thinkbox/files/msds-1-denatured_alcohol.pdf What does the MSDS for barium nitrate say? www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927449 Neither chem is a joy to inhale, with potentially harmful effects. I'll keep an eye on these symptoms, and get some treatment if it seems necessary. IIRC, in the past, some other experienced practitioner, experienced some pretty serious reactions to barium compounds, and has to avoid them now. Just a heads-up, and a seemingly important one. It's a bit embarassing to admit such a potentially serious mistake, but it's best to do what's in everyone's highest good. Maybe I'm just coming down with a bug, but it doesn't feel like it. I'll keep y'all posted. Rook, pay close attention to all this!

[@PyroCreationZ]

It's nice and honest of you to post this Ned. Just goes to show that we must be careful and use the right gear or work outdoors whenever we can. Reading the MSDS beforehand never hurts I've learned :) Another great informational video. I've said it before and do so again, you have some of the best videos I have ever seen. It's a joy to listen to you explaining things while showing how to do it. Great work!

[@nedgorski]

***** Thanks a lot, PCZ. Yeah, honesty is the best policy. Bull-schtit might get you somewhere in some endeavors, but it'll get you hurt or killed quickly in this one....or at least will earn ya a bad name in our little community. Best, ned

[@fineartonfire_5327]

ned gorski....hello sir! Ive watched and enjoyed ALL the publicly avail videos you have. So i think im going to subscribe and get the rest with the next couple weeks, next time i pay bills, lets say that. Anyway, i have a quick fast question....how do you know how many times to what the “rammer” when youre ramming a composition? Ive noticed every single project so far, you whacked the rammer a different number of licks. You explained in one of the first videos on how hard a proper whack should be. And you did state how many whacks for THAT project. But you havent explained anything else about the number of whacks!?!? To some this may sound trivial. But i proper pack on the composition is important. But again, i dont want to whack too much either. So can you maybe give us some way to know about “whacks”? Thank for your time and in advance! Also thank you for ALL the information and experience youve given us for free! Im serious, I appreciate your time, knowledge and experience! There are VERY few actual educational videos avail for free on this topic! This is rare thing! So i hope others seeing this understands as well!! Good day brother. James

[@johnanderson186]

Yeah watching you work with that Barium nitrate with no gloves, or mask, really made me cringe. That stuff is EXTREMELY TOXIC, which I’m sure you very well know. I can deal with a little muffled voice, while watching and listening to you work. Just so long as you’re safe and not breathing in those toxic chemicals or rubbing them into yours eyes, etc., and making yourself sick. I hope all was/is well Pyro Professor Ned, keep it safe always, and THANK YOU for passing your knowledge and experience onto everyone that watches your videos and reads your articles. You are a WEALTH of knowledge and very much appreciated.

[@scottwillis5434]

For those not familiar with PPE: 3M 6000 series half-mask respirators (6100 Small, 6200 Med, 6300 Large) with click-in filters and cartridges are one good choice. $40-ish. P95 (particulate) less restriction, P100 *good* particulate filtering (but your lung muscles may get sore until they build up). Various cartridges available for organic vapor (solvents), ammonia, etc. etc. Put in a sealed bag when not in use. Check the fit by blocking the exhaust and breathing out; the mask should push out from your face until that makes it leak. Seems like it should be possible to fit a small mic inside the mask, or do a voice-over if needed. Beats being sick! Nitrile gloves come in various thicknesses; thick for durability and reuse (if not used for nasty chems); thin for dexterity and cheap / get rid of contamination. Goggles, safety glasses with side shields or face shield, depending on what you are doing. If it goes foom, spatter, is dusty or whatever, probably going to still want your eyes to work. And solvents get absorbed, give me a headache. Good ventilation.

[@dennishicks8962]

Screening my dampened star comp was one of the best tips I ever got. Thanks Ned as much stars come out so much better

[@silphcotv3589]

Dear Ned, I hope that Discovery Channel or National Geographic pick you up and give you your own show. You're the Bob Ross of the pyrotechnic world.

[@nedgorski]

"It's your World you are creating... You can put anything you want into it...." (-: Thanks, SC. Enjoy life.

[@bulletproofmum]

That's exactly how I explain Ned and his videos to friends :) Pyros answer to Bob Ross. Fireworking isn't really an option here, must stick to lighting... but I never tire of watching these. Fascinating and relaxing at once 👍

[@TTomky]

Highly recommend using static gaurd on work surfaces and clothing. I have detailed experience and a lot of it.

[@mikehawke7149]

Thank you for the video . Your an amaizing teacher !

[@awamlehaoamlh795]

Always sparkling all the love for your kind person keep posting

[@kravenslegacy1]

Band- the midnight album- nocturnal I listen to this album constantly when I make fireworks out in my shop. That and the band gunship. It gets me in the groove!!

[@pleasurenadpain]

Awesome vid Ned. Anyone wants to know the right way to pump. This is the vid! Can u do a video of hand pressing a smaller plate for the folks with no press ?! :)

[@GIJeaux1]

Do you have a video that shows you shooting stars out of the "Star Gun"? I would be interested in seeing that.

[@keegancorey7750]

I realize it's kind of randomly asking but do anybody know of a good place to stream new tv shows online?

[@aydencamdyn5152]

@Keegan Corey Try Flixzone. Just search on google for it =)

[@derektitus8636]

@Ayden Camdyn Yea, I've been watching on flixzone for since march myself :D

[@keegancorey7750]

@Ayden Camdyn thanks, I signed up and it seems like a nice service =) Appreciate it !!

[@aydencamdyn5152]

@Keegan Corey you are welcome :)

[@rick5078]

Watching this video again 5 years later really reminds me how Ecuador, where I live, can really be a bit weird sometimes. I can freely purchase 99.99% non-denatured alcohol by the 55 gallon drum, but can't get a gallon of acetone other than the "100% pure" nail polish remover which I highly doubt is actually 100% pure, and even that I can only get by the half liter.

[@hugostiglitz6823]

Nail polish remover is infact pure acetone :)

[@rick5078]

@@hugostiglitz6823 not really. most have added coloring agents, some have added scents and few even have added skin care products.

[@NicolasSalencPBP]

Awesome! Could you use dextrin as a binder? Would that have an impact on the color?

[@kravenslegacy1]

Every chemical will have an impact on your final outcome, it all depends on what that chemicals purpose is in the formula you are using.

[@johnanderson186]

Pyrotechnics Professor Ned 👍👍

[@ZK-999]

WOW ! Like you'r work :) I wish I had all those stuff ! Greetings from Germany !

[@nedgorski]

Howdy, and thanks. There are some Germans in Fireworking. ned

[@dannyruiz6868]

Many of the tools used for making a lot of stars are extremely expensive. But you can use other things to accomplish the same results. Not at the volume of course. I invested into other means...15 ton old hydrolic Jack.. Steel plates from my hardware store. I invested in screens (the ones the miners use to sift sand), I bought 2 star plates..3/8", and a 1/2". Total cost under $120.00

[@jordanglassman5247]

Did you notice that your press started leaking hydraulic fluid at 20:45? Where the piston meets the cylinder.

[@vh14a]

Ned, I have access to all the free isopropyl alcohol I need. Will isopropyl work the same as the denatured alcohol for these rubber stars?

[@nedgorski]

That's a good find, Vince. Is the isopropyl alcohol 99% alcohol? If so, it should soften the redgum in these stars, and work. I've no tried that, though, so I'm just guessing. Good luck. Nowadays, I use phenolic resin instead of the redgum in such stars.

[@vh14a]

Yes it's actually isopropanol 99.7%. I'll give it a try. Thanks Ned

[@Dywrektor]

Hi Ned, What is the music playing in the background? It has a very quiet atmosphere that is soothing, maybe something worth listening while I'm in my shop!

[@dustinbogart9161]

You make it look easy as always ned. It's nice to know that even the most experienced people question some of their decisions. Can anybody tell me what the larger chunks are that I always seem to run into in red gum?

[@thehudlessfarmer]

Fascinating video. Would there be anything to gain by ball milling everything but the oxidiser and metals first, and then screening them in?

[@nedgorski]

Typically in our comps, John, as long as the ingredients are fine enough to pass a 40 or 50 mesh screen, unless otherwise specified, we're good to go with them. ned

[@thehudlessfarmer]

Thank you.

[@fyrcrack1]

What is this brilliant blue formula you speak of ?

[@christianduquette2173]

Good day, really like your videos, just made a batch of blue stars with red gum and dextrin! I am confuse about using water for the dextrin or achool for the red gum! Don't want to ruin this batch!

[@nedgorski]

If there's dextrin in a comp, I use water. I use denatured alcohol if red gum or phenolic resin is used as the binder. Good luck with the blues.

[@christianduquette2173]

​@@nedgorskiThank you. The only concern is this comp uses both red gum and dextrin! Will see

[@nedgorski]

@@christianduquette2173 Like I said, Chris, if it has dextrin in it, the dextrin is in there to be wetted with water, and act as the binder.

[@tientrinh3111]

"Hello! I watched your video and it was great!"

[@Kongfufrank]

how many kg of pressure do you use in the hydraulic press?

[@nedgorski]

We calculate it as "pressure on the composition", Franklin. Typically about 1500 psi on the composition is used when pumping stars and comets.

[@GoFlyPix]

Hey great video!! Did you make those press plates or have them made for you? The ones with the holes and other with the dowels.

[@nedgorski]

That's a commercial star plate from Wolter Pyro Tools, Spun. ned

[@GoFlyPix]

Hey appreciate it!! I'll look them up.

[@rdmpyros1066]

Amazing brother love your videos

[@nedgorski]

Thanks.

[@christianduquette2173]

Good day Mr Gorski, I primed my star with monocapa prime, they will not ignite whit a simple lighter like BP prime but will ignite with a blow torch lighter! Maybe the layer not thick enough?

[@nedgorski]

Maybe not thick enough, Chris. I have a vid in my channel showing how I now prime such stars. You might try that technique.

[@christianduquette2173]

The one that you put the star in a basket and drench them?

[@nedgorski]

@@christianduquette2173 Yep

[@christianduquette2173]

Can I try this method without ruining the stars since they already have a small amount of prime on them?

[@nedgorski]

@@christianduquette2173 I don't know. You can see in the vid that my goal was to slightly soften the star exterior so that prime could be embedded in that scum layer, to create a bit of a step prime. I don't know if you can accomplish that now with your stars as they are.

[@christianduquette2173]

Good Day Ned, I made a 250g batch of tiger tail using dextrin and à solution of 75/25 alcohol and water for moistening! 5% in the mix! Wasn't a sucess! I pressed it with a 1 ton arbor press with star press from woody's! The mix was so fluffy and messy! Like dust! They could'nt hold together! Maybe you could help me on this one! Thanks

[@nedgorski]

All I can suggest is more pressure and/or more water, Christian. It can take some experimenting and dialing in. Good luck.

[@christianduquette2173]

@@nedgorski Ned, I change for 75% water for 25% alcohol and 10% moistening! They are rock solide from the press! Happy!

[@nedgorski]

@@christianduquette2173 Excellent, Chris. BTW, the alcohol can inhibit the dextrin's binding ability. I'd suggest either reducing it to 10% and 90% water, or just using plain water. Good luck.

[@drewclev188]

Ned, im highly interested in getting into firework making and display operating, do i need an BATF permit to even make them?

[@nedgorski]

No you don't if you make them and shoot them on your own property. But state and local laws may limit what you can do. You'll have to check them out. You do need a BATFE permit or license to transport your fireworks legally, though. I'd suggest carefully studying the ATF Orange book: www.atf.gov/file/58741/download

[@pyrotekmanfred6503]

Hello Ned, with 1000grammes of star mix you can make 2 plates of 3/4 inch stars ? Thanks....

[@nedgorski]

As a rough guide, I figure an ounce of comp for one cubic inch of pumped star/comet.

[@XTRUTHDRUMSX]

What size shell would be ideal for 3/4" stars? 8" and up?

[@los842]

Where do you get your star plates?

[@nedgorski]

I'm fond of Caleb's products and service at woodysrocks.com

[@audriusbalsys7204]

11:20 just wondering... can this shaking be the cause of the accidental ignition ? I probably wouldnt do this making black powder. Is it safe to mix chemicals like this ?

[@nedgorski]

Yes

[@itsjustpyro9784]

if you completely finish these stars and then realize you did something wrong, can you crush them up again and restart the process?

[@rick5078]

could you use some sort of dry lubricant or silicone lubricant spray on star plates to keep the comp from sticking? or would that mess with the star's ability to light properly?

[@kravenslegacy1]

It could definitely have an effect on the final outcome, hell could even cause spontaneous combustion due to the lubricant sprays reaction to the specific chemicals your using. I only clean my press with water sometimes alcohol

[@rick5078]

@@kravenslegacy1 I figured as much, even graphite powder lubricant would affect the final outcome I guess.

[@HomeGrownPyro1]

Hi Ned, question...will using a pneumatic cylinder work to build a press or is a hydraulic system needed? I recently picked up a pneumatic cylinder at the local scrap yard that was part of some sort of automated manufacturing machine that was scrapped there and want to use it to build a press, but not sure if it will work.

[@nedgorski]

Hi, HGP. Although, here and there, a few pneumatic cylinders are used in pyro presses, most of us avoid them, and use hydraulic instead. Hydraulic fluid doesn't compress much at all, therefore not much energy is stored as some tooling is pressed in the press. But, air compresses a lot, so a lot of energy is stored in a pneumatic press. If something is out of alignment as some tooling is pressed, and something goes wrong such as tooling trying to "shoot out of the press", all that stored energy would really spoil one's day, or life. Therefore, for that reason, and for the availability and ease of setting up and using a hydraulic press, most of us stick with them. Stay safe out there.

[@HomeGrownPyro1]

@@nedgorski Thanks for the response Ned, that makes sense. I didn't realize the possible issues that can go wrong, you mentioned with an air press. Definitely don't need any of that. I will have to read up on hydraulics and learn what components I need and how to put it together. Thanks again. Have a happy Easter weekend.

[@scottwillis5434]

If something sticks then comes loose, pneumatics move FAST and can impact hard. Not good if it strikes sparks, ignites by impact or catches your hand. Hydraulics moves slowly, highly controlled. I know which I'd rather have my hands around!

[@HomeGrownPyro1]

@@scottwillis5434 that too makes a lot of sense now that you say it like that. Thank you

[@thehudlessfarmer]

informative and interesting. thanks for posting!

[@mixedspower5947]

nice work!!! greetings from Switzerland :)

[@nedgorski]

Hey, thanks, MP. Back at ya from here in the USA. ned

[@afbennett3038]

Do you buy your chemicals in very high amounts because you seem to use a lot of it, perchlorate is expensive as well

[@afbennett3038]

James Zachary damn, I live in the uk and I paid £97 for 6kg which comes out to about £7.50 per pound. I don’t really think there many clubs near me because of certain restrictions and you need a license for perchlorate so I doubt going to a club would change the price.

[@jonelectronics510]

@@afbennett3038 be careful with the 'stockpile' clause in your explosive certificate (assuming you are manufacturing at home). Correct me if I am wrong but I think they normally consider under 10kg as acceptable amounts of raw chemicals, more than that and you then become open to being a manufacturer rather than experimenter.

[@meagain2222]

Nice video.But some safety tips.Don't shake star mix in plastic containers because of static ignition hazard.Just sieve mixing.Then use a garden sprayer to spread alcohol wetting.Finally the pressing should be done remotely due to possible ignition and explosion.What are your plates made from?

[@christianduquette2173]

Ned, what can replace denutured alcohol?

[@nedgorski]

It depends on the formula and process, Christian. Another alcohol would be my first suggestion.

[@christianduquette2173]

@@nedgorski I am making blue star and I will be using red gum

[@nedgorski]

@@christianduquette2173 What pure alcohol can you get a hold of, Christian?

[@christianduquette2173]

@@nedgorski 99% isopropyl

[@nedgorski]

@@christianduquette2173 Yes, I'd try that. How will you be making the stars? Nowadays, I do prefer phenolic resin over the red gum, but your red gum should work in a pumped or box star

[@ชูชาติปีกกลาง]

ไม่ใส่แด๊คทรินใช่ไหมครับ🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂

[@pyrotekmanfred6503]

Hello ned, what % of water/alcohol do you use for the powder mix? Thank you...

[@nedgorski]

Depending on the comp, and whether I'm using alcohol or water, Fred, I'll use between 2 and 5%

[@pyrotekmanfred6503]

ned gorski thanks for fast reply, with winokur 20 , what % of liquid can i use? Thank you

[@nedgorski]

@@pyrotekmanfred6503 I'd try 5% with that, Fred

[@pleasurenadpain]

Toro?! Not familiar with this. Going to have to chat about this on fireworking.com Thx again Ned .. Interesting . I like the math to figure how much comp u need for the plate.

[@nedgorski]

Toro is the Japanese word for the comp or prime "paste" or slurry that they use in much of their star rolling. It is mentioned in Shimizu's FAST. I'll point you toward a vid of their process. n

[@pleasurenadpain]

What a difference using the red gum/alcohol vs water/dextrin. Priming works MUCH BETTER :)

[@nedgorski]

Bingo. To get an even thicker prime layer, a "toro" slurry of 3:1 water:prime can be used to wet the stars, followed by dunking them into dry prime.

[@askenazspecialeffects35]

How much pressure do you use? What kind of cylinder do you use?

[@rick5078]

it's one of woody's rocks presses.

[@pleasurenadpain]

Cool thx Ned! I would like see this.

[@abecoulter18]

Where can I get these comp recipes and directions from

[@nedgorski]

See the first 7 seconds of the vid, Abe. We hang out there all day, every day, chatting about all of this, and there are numerous articles, projects, and formulas in the site. ned

[@abecoulter18]

ned gorski wow fast reply I'm still watching. I am planning on building a 24" shell

[@abecoulter18]

ned gorski do you have any videos on making rolled stars using toro method?

[@nedgorski]

That'll be a big shell, for sure, Abe. I, and others, do have info and vids on using the toro method of rolling stars. Once the stars get large enough, that's my fave method.

[@abecoulter18]

ned gorski 50kilograms of product and 10kilo of lift. 10second time delay. And a shit load of pasting

[@Dywrektor]

What music is in the background?

[@alluvz2fish]

Where can one get a 3/4" star plate?

[@nedgorski]

woodysrocks.com or firesmithtools.com

[@nunnasatyasudha5149]

Way is that Raed gum

[@ngarmy6602]

How to get dextrin liker ?

[@askenazspecialeffects35]

How much pressure to use for those comets?

[@nedgorski]

I typically pump at 1500 psi on the comp.

[@askenazspecialeffects35]

@@nedgorski thank you very much. What piston do you use? How can I buy your compositions?

[@nedgorski]

All compositions are in the database on the website, Askenaz. If you mean the cylinder on the hydraulic press, I'd recommend looking at the presses at woodysrocks.com

[@stigoveberglund2255]

is it safe mixing metals like MgAl through the metal screen?

[@nedgorski]

Yes, MgAl is non-sparking. I don't like to put it through my fine screens, though, since it can clog their openings, and be tough to dislodge.

[@thefourstooges2376]

i wonder how much this guy gets stopped by the TSA for bomb material on his hands XD

[@nedgorski]

I haven't had any problems with that..., but my titanium knees do get me the once-over, for sure.. (-: ned

[@thefourstooges2376]

my dad gets stopped all the time since he is a farmer and the fertilizer on his hands sets it off... strange... is there a reason why fireworking.com costs $$ to join??

[@nedgorski]

Fireworking costs money to host, maintain, and produce. It's my "work/job", and the subscription fee is the only way those expenses can get paid. I've never heard anyone, of the hundreds of members, complain that it wasn't money well spent. Nothin's free in life. (-: Best, ned

[@thefourstooges2376]

ned gorski fair enough thanks ned

[@GMDII]

man if you just added some Bromine to the mix i could say you are Breaking Bad... :) ok lame chemistry joke.. I couldn't resist.

[@ProPyroPower]

i learned it the hardway, not proctecting youreself is a commen mistake to beginners as the "dust" you cant see is inhaled. i know the taste of kclo4 etc,dangerous mistakes, hope you get well fast ned. regards p

[@nedgorski]

Feeling much better today, albeit a bit wiped out. It was a miserable 36 hours, though. Thanks for the good thoughts, PPP. "Oh, I can skip the respirator and ventilation to make this vid..." NOT. Misery is instructive, and this lesson is now branded on my brain. ned

[@ชูชาติปีกกลาง]

ใส่น้ำด้วยไหมครับจะได้แข๊งๆๆ

[@ZloiPiroman]

Cool man. like!!

[@sandmanbub]

@Whoop!

[@ชูชาติปีกกลาง]

เหลืองดีนะครับ

[@kipdrippers]

@976EVIL

[@frandibiase8771]

Sorry I could vendere1kg of stars for mortars

[@drysori]

Too much precision for me, I just pour it in and press them

[@bas12345654321]

Thats what i used to do, but when you make stars that fail you realize you spend a lot of money witch is just goiing to waste. A few minutes more care could save a lot of money.

[@ชูชาติปีกกลาง]

ถ้าปั๊มเม๊ดเล๊กๆ

[@phutruong.vn.]

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