Putting the Waterloo and City Line on the Map

Let's get cartographical!

[@hyperdistortion2]

A 125th anniversary of the Waterloo & City Line video? Pretty sure we can Bank on that!

[@PMA65537]

Just 10 years younger than the forgotten Trafalgar Line.

[@cjayos7654]

A video to celebrate would not be a Drain on resources 😉

[@stephanbach1652]

Let’s have a party.

[@ZonkerRoberts]

It would be a monumental achievement.

[@quantisedspace7047]

Wasn't there a plan to join the W+C to the erstwhile Piccadilly Line's Aldwych branch ?

[@garycook5071]

I always love when it is shown on the delays panel at the station as “delays on the whole line” 🤨

[@Erdnussbuttertoast]

can't believe you're "thanks to my patrons" line wasn't "You're the waterloo to my city"

[@harstan7333]

If they have the money, it should be 'You're the city to my Waterloo'!

[@roberthuron9160]

In New York,there is the other subway,i.e.,the Hudson Tubes,also a subsidiary of a mainline Railway! The Pennsylvania Railroad ran the Hudson&Manhattan from New Jersey[Teminals-Hoboken,and Newark],which were linked by underwater tunnels under the Hudson River! Now the lines are called PATH(Port Authority Trans Hudson),and those lines are also now,in operation for over a century! In part of their passage in Manhattan,they share tunnels with the IND 6th Avenue line! A complicated history,much foreshortened! Thank you Jago,for another foray into the great unknown! Thank you! 😇 !

[@katrinabryce]

In London, there is still the Northern City Line, which is sometimes known as the "big tube", and Thameslink, both operated by Govia Thameslink Southern Great Northern Railways.

[@lavillenouvelle]

Most of the big cities have a "Subway that is not a subway but it my be". In Rome there is Metromare, the subway that goes to the sea. It's completely on the surface, and is run by a different operator. And has a full name, while the other lines have letters. In Lausanne ther is the LEB, a subway line that goes deeply into the countryside. It's green instead of blue, and its name comes from the initiales of it's terminus, while the other lines are numbered. Are there more odd subways like these in other cities?

[@katrinabryce]

@@lavillenouvelle RER in Paris for sure.

[@squeeden]

@@lavillenouvellea fun question! One that comes to mind is the Ashmont-Mattapan High-Speed Line. It’s a 4km shuttle service in Boston that uses antique PCC streetcars (and thus not particularly high speed). However, it’s drawn as part of the Red Line on the T map, despite being entirely separate.

[@lavillenouvelle]

@@katrinabryce True! Before the opening of Chatêlet - Les Halles, RER B used to be part of the Métro, with the Name "Ligne S" from the final destination (Sceaux).

[@gracewenzel]

Ooh, maps! As a side note, I feel very lucky to have the diagrammatic maps to depend on - those geographical maps, though they look nice, are so cramped and hardly legible. I mean, look at 2:28. Absolute state of it. We owe a great deal of thanks to Harry Beck.

[@paulhaynes8045]

I find myself oddly not entirely in agreement with that. Until a few days ago, I was a confirmed Beck fan (even after Jago's recent portrayal!). But in those few days I have spent much of my time looking at (and trying to find!) maps of the Underground. And I found myself getting more and more annoyed with Beck's ruddy diagram! The problem is not just that his 'map' isn't a map, it's more that in places it is horribly WRONG! Trying to tie up real locations of stations and tunnels, and actual track layouts, with Beck's fantasy version is verging on the almost impossible at times. I fear that, not only have the current maps become too complicated - with the Overground, Thameslink, etc added in - but, as the network has expanded, the need to make reality match the 'Beck rules' has resulted in less and less connection with that very reality. I think the time has come for Beck 2.0 - obviously we need the 'all-lines' maps, even if they are confusing, but we also need separate 'just' Underground maps (+ DLR, of course, and possibly the tram). And those maps need to both retain the ease of use of the Beck diagram, but also to pay more attention to reality - especially how close stations are to each other (not just dotted lines and distances). The current post-Beck design is great if you just need to get from one station to another, but if you want to leave the comfort of the underground and actually explore the City, it can often be disorientingly confusing.

[@hb1338]

@@paulhaynes8045 On my tablet computer, I have both an A-Z and a Tube map. Problem solved.

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

Britain's railway network has often thrown up anomalies. There was the Grimsby and Immingham Electric Railway which became part of BR on nationalisation and was a tram line between Grimsby and Immingham that had been acquired by the Great Central Railway. It was the only tramway to be included in both the grouping and nationalisation.

[@RJSRdg]

Three narrow gauge railways were also grouped and Nationalised - Vale of Rheidol, Corris, and Welshpool & Llanfair. The Lynton & Barnstaple and Leek & Manifold Valley lines were grouped but closed before Nationalisation. The Talyllyn Railway avoided Nationalisation because the Ministry of Transport thought it had already closed!

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

@@RJSRdg they're the ones most people know about.

[@apuldram]

In a time long ago, I used to travel daily from Waterloo to Liverpool St, then Old St. The W&C was a godsend, but at Bank I’d have to go first up to the ticket hall, and then back down to the Northern Line. When they said, they were building a direct connection, I was all over myself in anticipation!Then it opened. Truth was, it was just as easy to go up and down, and I had escalators to help. Today, we have the Northern Line to Elizabeth Line connector at Moorgate. It’s rumoured that some early adopters are still down there…

[@highpath4776]

I forgot to get the front of the train at Stratford and found it was an even longer walk (dont try the esclators they are terrifying) from the end to the platform exit for Moorgate, Actually once you are moving along the tunnels its not to bad to be dropped just on the platforms for the Northern Line (the Met/H and C lines though are a pain if using lift. but always were a pain without the lift for w/b services

[@highpath4776]

I found the shortcut passenger tunnel to be quicker if you used the escalator down toward the DLR ( but that was often under repair) to get to the Northern platforms

[@GojiMet86]

The short line was always treated as a special line on the map. It was obviously a non-Underground line and was owned by mainline railroads, yet everyone gave it a little wink, knowing this was a different type of service.

[@frglee]

More cartographical tales, please, Mr Hazzard! For those who can't get enough of such things, may I recommend the 'Mr Beck's Underground Map' book by Ken Garland? Affordable used copies turn up on ebay fairly often. A must for mapheads and other cartographical fetishists everywhere!

[@TheEarlofK]

The Waterloo and City Line, aka 'The Drain', always struck me as a line you only knew about if you were a Londoner or at least a commuter who worked in the City and lived south of the river; probably also to confuse tourists...

[@AtheistOrphan]

My Waterloo & City tale: I used to ride this line off-peak during the early 80s, when it was the old Southern stock (painted in all-over Rail Blue with silver ends). During such quiet times I often had a carriage to myself, and couldn’t help noticing the distinctive ‘Southern Railway’ vent covers at the end of each carriage. On closer inspection I saw they were only attached by a few screws and thought a pair would make a great souvenir. However I never plucked up the courage to actually carry out the deed! I wonder if anyone did?

[@thomasburke2683]

In those days the W & C was commonly known as the "drain".

[@xenon53827]

I remember the 3 trains of the 1940 stock when I used the line in the 1980's. In two of them, the ventilators at the end of the cars still said 'Southern Railway' whilst the third had 'Southern Region.

[@frglee]

I remember a rail enthusiast friend who got wind of the old green Southern Region totem station signs being replaced locally in the early 70's by British Rail, and spent several nights 'collecting' them from various station platforms in the area. He accumulated quite a collection, but got nicked and fined for it.

[@alphacrocy]

@@frglee I wanted to nick one of them, probably a good job I didn't! Mind you I did find (Incredibly) a Southern Railway totem in good condition just down the embankment at Dunton Green Station. I lent it to the village hall for them to display.

[@mdhazeldine]

Nice. I like maps. If you want an interesting topic for a video, maybe you could do one on how they get trains in and out of "the drain". There used to be a lift called the Armstrong Lift, on the west side of Waterloo station (where the International station is now). There's a few photos of it if you Google it hard enough. Now I believe they use a crane on the East side of the station on Spur road.

[@jackmartinleith]

"a crane on the East side of the station on Spur road." Yes Mark. It appears on OpenStreetMap.

[@martyonline1957]

if you watch the TV show, Secrets of the underground, all is revealed

[@sams3015]

It’s always been funny to me how the shortest line has such a long name

[@MeFreeBee]

and a video longer than the journey time.

[@christopherwright8388]

But probably better than calling it the WC.

[@saoirsedeltufo7436]

The name being longer than all the stations on the line is quite entertaining

[@hb1338]

@@saoirsedeltufo7436 Combine Waterloo and Bank and what do you get ? Erm, perhaps not.

[@saoirsedeltufo7436]

@@hb1338 You'd have tourists coming from around the world to have a go on the Wank line

[@simonroyle2806]

When I started work in the 80s the ticket to London terminals included the W&S to Bank. Then you had to pay for the Zone 1 when it went to LT, so that add about £1k a year!

[@heidirabenau511]

I love the Waterloo & City Line, it's such a quircky line with a very interesting history! Thanks for the great video Jago!

[@zetectic7968]

I have only travelled on the Waterloo & City line less than a dozen times as it was closed on weekends. The first time I discovered why it was called "The Drain" dark & dingy. That was many years ago in the 20th Century.

[@caileanshields4545]

The difference in legibilty between the pre and post-Harry Beck maps is like night and day. 2:28 is like cartographical spaghetti for crying out loud. Give me clear and easy to understand public transport maps over geographically accurate ones any day of the week.

[@paulhaynes8045]

Can I point you at the current 'Tube' map? Neither "clear and easy to understand" nor anything like geographically accurate.

[@jonkingsbury]

To those 19,241 people (approximately). That told them. How satisfying. Thank you for such a great (and in this case, correctional) video. Brilliant stuff, as ever.

[@paulhaynes8045]

That nearly triggered me! One of my pet hates is people who give a pedantically accurate figure and then add 'approximately". I have been known to shout at the radio... Luckily, I expect such madness from Jago, so my defences were up.

[@hb1338]

@@paulhaynes8045 Jago's words were meant humorously. Now breathe out.

[@MisterTea74]

I thought you’d forgotten your donors on kofi and patreon for a moment, but sneaked them in at the end. 😅 You are the Harry Beck to our tube map. Cheers

[@bingbong7316]

Let the Drain take the strain.

[@jamesgilbart2672]

This line used to be called the 'Drain' by commuters - not sure if it still is. Maybe it seemed they were flushed down the pan that was Waterloo to the sewer that was Bank...

[@nicfripp4159]

Nice to see you mention the Drain, a name that seems to have disappeared when it got on the tube map. I first used it some 50 years ago, when it had (I think) the last pre-war carriages on the transport network of London. If not, I'm sure someone here will tell me

[@richardeyers322]

near the cut/lower marsh there is a very big hole where at night they used to lower the trains up and over/down the hole to get the carrierges on to the rails.

[@hatjodelka]

Have you done an episode about commemorative plaques, statues etc on stations? I'd love that. I was just thinking about how good it is that the much-loved statues on Brixton Overground platform are back.

[@rolandayers6726]

The plaque at Moorgate marking the 1975 crash is suitably dignified.

[@alanroderick7153]

To the approx 19,241 people who commented - you have just been "Owned" in the most British gentlemanly way possible. Well done, Jago

[@dredfell]

Always loved the oddity that is the Waterloo & City line - to me, it has that feel that it could have been closed down years ago if things had worked out differently, and we’d all be talking about it as “an abandoned railway of London”

[@darylcheshire1618]

Reminds me of the Upfield line in Melbourne, it was slated for closure in the late ‘70s and trains ceased after 7pm. Upgrades were not funded and so for about 20 years retained their numerous array of quaint wooden gates which were operated by people who sat in little wooden cabins. Eventually a later government decided to lift this Sword of Damocles and declared it to stay so the 7pm closure was lifted and ding-dongs replaced the wooden gates, the single facing Coburg station had one platform on a double track line for decades and got a new extra platform. Then the line got the level crossing removal treatment with new elevated stations.

[@StevensPaul]

A line that shows up when it feels like it 😗.

[@Andrewjg_89]

Shame that the Waterloo and City Line is only a short tube line. And with no plans to extend it further in London. I have been on it many times and it’s fun to ride on especially when it’s not as busy.

[@danieleyre8913]

It’s only ever been a shuttle/people mover between the Waterloo terminus and the city. Because a lot of people who worked in the banking district lives in the South Western suburbs that terminate at Waterloo. It’s never really been a proper metro line, it just got handed over to TfL about 30 years ago and they find it most convenient to administer it with the Underground. To make it a metro line proper and extend it; they would also need to spend a bomb lengthening the existing station platforms and providing more access. And where would you extend it to? Eastward to Canary wharf I suppose, but where to westward? Milbank maybe? Would it be worth it?

[@Andrewjg_89]

Totally agree with you. Thanks for the good input. 👍

[@dansheppard2965]

I've never been on the Waterloo & City (and probably never will now, living many hundreds of miles away). But the weird specialness of Waterloo and City on the tube maps growing up (the reasons for which were unclear to me) and the way it seemed to always vary, made it seem very exotic and mysterious. Thank you for filling out the mystery a little!

[@stephanbach1652]

As an American, I remember using that line but couldn’t figure out where it was on the map. Thanks. I had forgotten that experience.

[@mediacityavid]

I loved the Flash Gordon spaceship style trains from the 1940's. Sadly they have been replaced.

[@amethyst7084]

Thanks Jago. Another great and interestingly presented informative video. ❤ 👏🏾 I grew up fascinated by the lines that would appear on the tube map. The Waterloo and City Line was one of these - always represented as a white line outlined by two black lines, just like the North London Line (North Woolwich to Richmond) and the 'GN Electrics' (I think that's how it was labelled on the tube map) or what we now call the 'Northern City Line' running from Moorgate to Finsbury Park, if I remember correctly. It's so good that it's on the tube map permanently now. ❤ 👏🏾

[@jimroberts3651]

In the late 1960s, I travelled on the Waterloo and City Line twice a day for a week. The trains were nothing like those in use on the Underground or on Southern Railways. They were ancient and brown with plenty of woodwork and polished brass. There were three rows of lights in the ceiling, all with incandescent bulbs. Two rows were normally on although they switched off alternately during the journey. On occasions when both rows switched off, the third central row came on. Sometimes the train would stop in the tunnel, then immediately start up again. It put me in mind of the Far Tottering and Oyster Creek Railway.

[@RadioJonophone]

I've never had a valid reason to use this line, but on every London visit (I reside in the populous outstation of Newcastle upon Tyne) I make a point of travelling on the Waterloo and City. I was always fascinated by that white, not filled in, specially named appearance on the Tube Map from the 1960s to the '90s.

[@LeeSmith-cf1vo]

That 1965 BR map looks like someone drew the w+c on by hand as an after thought.

[@n17hero]

They clearly had to find something for the work experience to do that week.

[@kitchin2]

The entire map was drawn by hand. The lettering may have been freehand there rather than rub-on. I have no idea what I’m talking about mostly.

[@ThatScottishAtlantic57]

Great vid as always Jago, keep it and have a good evening 👍

[@roderickmain9697]

Those buffers look quite prominent at the end of the platform. No overrunning on this line. Also might make it difficult to extend anywhere (should anyone wish to). But then, that would raise the prospect of upgrading the stations at either end to improve access for potentially more passenger numbers. It is sort of quirky and Ive only used it once. Its clearly still, relatively busy so it does serve a purpose.

[@danieleyre8913]

It’s what it was intended to be when it was built; just a shuttle between Waterloo terminus and the city. So yes at rush hour it gets more than busy enough (although only in the one direction)

[@glynwelshkarelian3489]

Everybody that had half a functioning brain would know where the doors on the next train were, because the regulars stood in groups where the doors on the next train were. During rush hour, with my limited experience, it always seemed to be one of the most civilised underground lines. No tourists or random travellers. Just people who knew where they were (until they got off at Waterloo in the evening; then chaos theory took over).

[@danieleyre8913]

@@uingaeoc3905 To be honest; extending it would not be easy in any scenario because it would also require lengthening the platforms and changing a lot of operations. That’s not to say it would be outright impossible, but that it would present a lot of challenges. To be honest; with those sorts of required works; they may as well change it to automatic operation and maybe even introduce screen doors. An interchange with Blackfriars might not be possible given track curvatures. However the idea of serving camberwell with an extension (as was long intended for the bakerloo) does have merit. That part of South London has long been starved of a tube connection and there’s never been any plans to bring back the mainline stations. However: Given the actual function of the line (a shuttle mostly for commuters between the South Western suburbs and Bank); I think any extension would be better to instead serve areas where there are commercial or public service offices. Such as under to river to Lambeth bridge/Milbank and then an interchange with Pimlico and then interchange with the new Battersea power station. Maybe it could also go further east to terminate at Clapham junction; to eliminate the final leg of many journeys. As for an eastward expansion; I’d probably send it to Canary Wharf but via areas not currently in convenient proximity to a tube station. Such as a station at Fenchurch St, and interchange with the Wapping station on the Overground east London line, and a station in the vicinity of north Rotherhithe, and then to terminate at Canary wharf. As for Blackfriars; I always liked the idea of extending the DLR to Charing cross via the “City Thameslink” station and Aldwych, using the tunnels and route originally for the fleet line.

[@danieleyre8913]

@@uingaeoc3905 Looked into this?! Are you a civil engineer with a tonne of expertise and experience?

[@danieleyre8913]

@@uingaeoc3905 How are you in any position to say it would be easy?

[@Rog5446]

I'll never forget the first time I rode on the Waterloo-City in around 1960. I thought their coaching stock was way ahead of the underground.

[@AtheistOrphan]

1940 stock.

[@richardjalabhay5586]

My type of vid. Love the one with black lining and white fill.

[@SmudgeThomas]

A nice video. I remember learning the tube map as a child off a late 80s AtoZ which also included such relics as the pre Hammersmith and City line metropolitan and the East London Line

[@davidsummer8631]

I dont think there are many other large major cites which just have a below surface line of just two stations

[@hairyairey]

From memory I think Berlin has (at least in 2019) but it was due to be extended. Line U55 Berlin Hauptbahnhof to Brandenburger Tor

[@hairyairey]

Correcting myself, I forgot about Bundestag in the middle. But as I say there is construction going on to take the line further. That's what I can remember from my time there in 2019.

[@davidsummer8631]

@@hairyairey Wasn't that line originally going to be a major line and never a line of just a few stations ?

[@hairyairey]

@@davidsummer8631 just had a search online it closed 17th March 2020 and from 4th December 2020 it became part of the U5 line and was extended to Alexanderplatz.

[@davidsummer8631]

@@hairyairey Might prove the point that small lines dont really work in major cities

[@rossmcfarlane8954]

Disordered and rambling is my favourite way of being!

[@pacificostudios]

I'm fascinated by London Transport / TfL using privatization as a means of getting control of a former BR property. I didn't know that's how it happened. Someone has already mentioned the PATH trains between Manhattan and New Jersey, but due to history, geography and often lack of municipal funding, there are a host of these "almost this, but not quite that" transit lines in the world: Examples in the States include the San Francisco cable cars, the Seattle Monorail, and the inclined planes in Pittsburgh and Los Angeles.

[@kitchin2]

In NY/NJ/CT the failure of the one (by then) big private railroad that ran almost all commuter trains about 1970 was so epic and massive that it’s amazing in retrospect that train service just trundled on, absorbed into public bodies. Necessity and all. The PATH was unique in that it was forced on the NY/NJ seaport authority, largely now an airport and highway toll agency, with a notable real estate project at the time - World Trade Center. The PA funds itself, with the PATH train its obligation to run at a loss. Well-run* though, affordable, fairly short, and heavily used by locals to cross the Hudson River. Nice looking subway cars, about 300 of them. (* Well-run as far as I can tell. You will never hear a good word said about the PA itself though.)

[@glynwelshkarelian3489]

I was sat here thinking: 'Say Harry Beck! Say Harry Beck! Say Harry Beck!' I would now like to know what proportion of Beck's maps showed the Waterloo and City; and in what style. I appreciate that neither you nor any of your other viewers could possibly be interested in a pie chart of Harry Beck's Waterloo and City Styles, but I would be.

[@captainboing]

Got a cab ride on one of the EE units one Saturday afternoon when I was a kid

[@highpath4776]

"useful BR line" is that a backhanded compliment given the demise of the depicted lines out of Broad Street (pity really the overground was not thought of earlier by those of influence )

[@andywarne963]

Nice to see lots of shots of 1992 tube stock as they were originally built with the frameless windows. All the Central Line stock had frames added at a later stage owing to water ingress causing corrosion of the bodies.

[@Alan_UK]

I don't what it is like now, but in the 70s all the passengers were very polite. People formed an queue along the platform at the marked spots for the doors. When a train came in everyone moved onto the train in an orderly fashion, no shoving and definitely no packing people in.

[@hb1338]

Mogadon.

[@iankemp1131]

Terminology is always fun; so it's an underground line that wasn't always Underground. Seeing the maps sparked off a related thought about the different ways that the Bank/ Monument connection has been labelled. I remember 1960s maps saying "Escalator connection", but it's "Escalator link" at 4:04, "Footway link" at 3:40 and all one big interchange station at 4:25. Any others? Earlier ones, e.g. 1:57 and 2:55, don't show the connection at all.

[@hb1338]

Wasn't it an escalator link without any escalators ?

[@iankemp1131]

@@hb1338 I remember my Dad caustically commenting that it had one short escalator and lots of walking along corridors. It depended (and still does) what change you wanted. At the time I think you linked directly from the District to the Northern line platforms but then had to walk the full length of the Northern line platform and beyond to reach the Central, and then the travolator to get to the W&C.

[@highpath4776]

That LSWR map looks interesting , lots of swirly circles/loops. Whatever happened to Wraysbury , and Bring Back Battersea Station Station

[@Alan_UK]

Maybe it wasn't on tube maps was because tube tickets were not valid? I used it daily in the 70's when commuting into Waterloo and I recall my BR season ticket included the W&C but from Bank I then walked rather than take a tube. Also if I again recall correctly there was no direct connection from the W&C to the underground- the travellator came up into the underground booking hall.

[@glynwelshkarelian3489]

When I do a jigsaw of the London Underground map I don't look at the box, and once I fit the fist 2 pieces I can only add pieces to that bit. That makes the Waterloo & City a useful first step. Very distinct colour, next to, and crossing, the Thames and the District & Circle; with all the lines radiating from Waterloo and Bank. Next 2 most useful are the Thames, then the Central.

[@Einveldi]

I've always wondered how the colour was chosen. It seems odd to be so similar to the DLR in hue (if not saturation)

[@LeafLeafy]

Agreed, though it does make me happy that my two favorite lines are essentially the same colour.

[@Zveebo]

The Waterloo & City is less of a tube line than the Elizabeth Line is - an honestly it’s a bit of a waste of a colour. But it should definitely be on the map, as should Thameslink and all other major services which are useful to people needing to get around London.

[@hairyairey]

It's not a tube map any more, it's more like the London Connections map of the 1990s.

[@John_259]

My father worked in London in the 1950's and 60's. He always referred to the Waterloo and City as "The Drain" but I don't know how widespread that nickname was.

[@JagoHazzard]

It was pretty well known. It may have originated with the staff. I’m thinking there might be a video in it.

[@jjmcrosbie]

The only time I rode on it, I think in the 1970s, it was run by BR and was known colloquially as "The Drain".

[@telhudson863]

In the 1960s Dad took us to the Imperial War Museum at Lambeth North. We took the train to Liverpool Street and the changed to the tube. Changing from Central to W&C at Bank was no problem but when we got to Waterloo, the man told us that our ticket wasn't valid. Then he looked at Dad and two kids and simply said, "When you return, go via Oxford Circus." That was when they helped passengers rather than fleecing customers.

[@MichaelTavares]

Thank you Jago. You are similarly curious and distinctive gentleman

[@bobsrailrelics]

Always been an oddity. I remember one time riding the old Southern Railway trains before Network South East bought the 'new' trains.

[@luxford60]

As a side note, I spotted another thing I remember from old Tube maps when there was a zig zag line between Monument and Bank marked "escalator link" which looked much further on tne maps than it is in real life, though it's still quite a long way.

[@paulhaynes8045]

On one of my Day Rover trips as a kid, I specifically took the W&C just to ride the 'escalator link' - only to find it was nothing of the sort! One minute I was about to experience the sci-fi wonders of London, the next I was walking through a dingy tunnel...

[@defender1006]

The Waterloo & City line, AKA 'The Drain', as it was known to many users and the Southern 'railmen' for a long time, wasn't the line we know now in as much as it was almost hated by those who used it, as it was dirty, dank and relatively horrible to use until it's upgrades in the very later part of the last century, BUT, it was a vital link from Waterloo to 'The City', so soldiered on well past it's 'sell/use by date'? My Grandad (Mothers, Father) was a Southern Railway man for many years, I can remember him being a lift operator in the 'Charing Cross Hotel' in the early/mid '60's. It was the basement floors that fascinated me the most, the kitchens and loading areas seemed 'hidden away' much like the 'Underground system'. My Granny and Grandad lived in Campbell Buildings, in Frasier Street, and looked out across to the southern side of Waterloo Station and the tower of the Shell Southbank complex, that has been almost completely destroyed in the recent redevelopment, in my opinion anyway, as it celebrated many of this countries achievements in motoring and motorsport history, which is very sad IMHO?! I can clearly remember my Dad lifting me up to look over the walls to look down on to the depot tracks at the Lower Marsh/Spur Road/Baylis Road to look down, on our weekend visits and seeing the then unique trains sat in their sidings ready for work on Monday Morning. It wasn't until the late '70's that I was able to visit the W&C or 'The Drain' for myself and experience it for myself, for better and worse! I'd just love a full 'anniversary' history of the W&C, well given it's 'nick name' it's initials seem to sum it's earlier history quite well!

[@martyonline1957]

I was always curious as to how the running stock was delivered into the "drain", there must be a link to the Northern Line or Central Line surely ? Nope, to my surprise on the TV show Secrets of the underground, presented by our very good friend Mr Tim Dunn and la divine Siddy Holloway, I discovered they are craned in via the rail works at the engineering yard at the southern end of the line. You learn something everyday

[@MATTY110981]

I still like that the Network Southeast logo is still visible on the platform floor

[@JohannaInTheCorner]

Love the NSE logo still etched on the platform edge! Thanks Jago.

[@norbitonflyer5625]

They mark where the doors lined up. Unfortunately the trains to which they apply were withdrawn from service nearly thirty years ago, and the tiles were not repositioned to match the new stock.

[@brettpalfrey4665]

I did the W + C line last week..it twists and turns more than you would imagine..but its a proper tube line now! Thanks Jago!

[@Duececoupe]

Lining up perfectly with your other videos....👍🏻👌🏻👏🏻

[@danieleyre8913]

Let’s be honest; the W&CL has never really been a bonafide metro line, it’s merely a shuttle/people mover whose responsibility passed to TfL. And it’s likely to forever stay that way, as the works needed to make it a proper tube line (longer platforms, extensions, etc) won’t be worth it.

[@Leonard_Smith]

Hopefully that puts a line under the Waterloo & City Line 👍

[@hens0w]

"Actually it wasn't an underground line at all" - I mean there was still ground above it. I do understand the point; but I feel this sort of behavior creates engagement for you.

[@QALibrary]

I wonder if we will have the same talk in many years about the (insert sponsor) cable car?

[@frglee]

I can't see that lasting too long. Tfl says it 'makes a profit' from the cable car (not sure if that includes paying back the £60 million it cost to build) but when equipment expires and costly repairs are needed, that'll be the end of it. It performs no real vital transport function, with no regular commuters at all, it's more of a tourist attraction. It'll just be a footnote in London's transport history maybe, the foundations of the towers left, but nothing else.

[@kgbgb3663]

@@frglee London was obviously jealous of Brighton's Devil's Dyke cable car, and wanted its own forgotten useless tourist attraction. Devil's Dyke, a minor tourist attraction, had _three_ rail/cable-ways. The cable-car, something rather like a funicular but not quite, and a branch of the LB&SCR. Nothing to see now, I'm afraid, else I'd keep an eye out for Jago on his way up the Dyke to make his video about them. And yes, Dyke Road does have a junction with Queens Road.

[@stevesaul7975]

Another great video. Thanks Jago. And some very interesting looking maps you’ve shown there. I’d love to be able to get some of those.

[@GeorgeChoy]

Geoff Marshall and Jago on the same day, I'm spoiled

[@hairyairey]

To show just how repetitive I am, I still think it's feasible to dig south from Moorgate. It's a tight squeeze at Bank, but there could be a foot of space to spare. Which is more than the Elizabeth line has at TCR to separate it from the Northern line.

[@hairyairey]

A cheaper way to build Crossrail 2 perhaps Jago?

[@RJSRdg]

Or alternatively build some low-height Docklands stock and extend the DLR to Waterloo!

[@hairyairey]

@@RJSRdg Oh now there's a thought. Which is bigger, Moorgate trains or DLR?

[@18robsmith]

The line/railway that came/faded/came/vanished/faded/came over 125 years before finally finding its identity.

[@JamesPetts]

I remember it in its white days. I always thought the orange to be somewhat untidy.

[@kirkhamandy]

5:07 I was trying to figure out if that was an up or a down escalator, I eventually decided on neither

[@MrGreatplum]

Great video, jago. I’ve only been on the line a few times (such as the times a friend and I used to see how far we could go by tube in our lunch hour from our office by Marylebone…) I suspect its use is very busy when used by those who visit the office on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, And Thursdays (there’s a fun acronym…) and pretty empty otherwise!

[@JimTheRevelator]

03:27 has given me an idea for a new Jago video... the history of the Escalator/Footway link between Bank and Monument on tube maps.

[@johnjephcote7636]

"Curiouser and curiouser"' cried Alice.

[@officialmcdeath]

The need to indicate a change of train is no small matter - it was routine for people boarding at Aldwych to think they had a one-seat ride to Cockfosters \m/

[@cheesedoff-with4410]

If you do make another video on the drain, (and why wouldn't you?), could you feature the curious queuing that snaked up and down the length of the platform. I don't think it's been done that way for some years now.

[@seanbonella]

Train, not drain???

[@QuantumScratcher]

@@seanbonella "the drain" is a nickname for the w+c line

[@cheesedoff-with4410]

@@seanbonella Its nickname, at least with some people, in the late seventies and early eighties.

[@userofthetube2701]

I'm curious if it's ever been considered to use this line as the starting point of a longer underground line. After all, it does connect two very prominent stations. So you'd think that an extension would also have quite a bit of demand.

[@hairyairey]

See my other comment about extending from Moorgate. Yes it's a different sized tunnel but there's less work involved in expanding this line than building a new one. It would be less than a mile of tunnel dug by hand (because no way are you getting a TBM in there). As I am thinking about this it suddenly dawned on me that this might be a cut down Crossrail 2 and much more affordable.

[@highpath4776]

@@hairyairey should/ can the W and C tunnels be made larger to accomodate standard sized stock ?

[@hairyairey]

@@highpath4776 I think it's worthwhile to do that. Obviously it'll be closed for some time to make it possible.

[@fenlinescouser4105]

@@hairyairey I've read comment in the past that the combination of wet conditions in the tunnel, tight curvature skirting Blackfriars Bridge supports and entry to Waterloo depot together with short platform length stations would probably make it more cost effective to build an alternative link to modern standards from scratch. Not that I can foresee this ever coming to fruition.

[@hairyairey]

@@fenlinescouser4105 thing is they want Crossrail 2 which will cost billions. And getting it through Chelsea and past its numerous iceberg houses I think would be ridiculously expensive. So yes I do think running Crossrail 2 through Moorgate and Waterloo and possibly onwards to Clapham Junction is possible

[@ianpatterson6552]

The Case of the Phantom line of Threadneedle Street. Call for Jago of the Yard to investigate!

[@seanbonella]

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔👍

[@john1703]

"A sort of aqua." Are you sure it is not the river Thames? 😄

[@paulhaynes8045]

The one colour the Thames has NEVER been is 'aqua'!

[@SparkieGoth]

Love ya, Jago! Keep up the great work.

[@seanbonella]

Great video Jago

[@WardyLion]

Seeing as I’m in London it’s only right I watch your latest offerings. I’ve only taken The Drain once and that was only so I could see that Greathead shield in one of the connecting corridors.

[@KravKernow]

I like all the route variations on the various maps. I wonder which way it actually goes, geographically?

[@kgbgb3663]

It loops up north of Blackfriars. The website CartoMetro shows it particularly clearly, and is a boon to all London rail nerds like me. Shows all the sidings, crossovers, points etc.

[@howardrsims]

Arrows pointing to the line would have been helpful for this video. For half the maps, I couldn't even find it.

[@wilsonlaidlaw]

Jago, on your next video on the Drain, you could explain the reason for the humps in the middle of the platforms.

[@iandobson6538]

+1 on that question Wilson. I use the Drain frequently (and have done since the '80s) and always wondered about the changes in platform level

[@markhjones956]

Another excellent video. Dare I suggest that when the W&C disappeared from underground plan of the 1930s, it was an example of a Drain Drain?

[@neilbain8736]

An existential conundrum indeed.

[@Thornaby37]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the Waterloo & City platforms at Bank are almost within touching distance of Mansion House station

[@nutsnproud6932]

I remember this line as "The Drain".

[@Jamesbaby286]

I just had a thought that sounded like a potential video: What are the addresses of the old stations of London? Like the actual address of the property. If you casually look them up on google it seems that the station are (understandably) seen as such a landmark that you don't need to write a number, just "St Pancras Station" on the road, in the city it is in. But the property existed before the station was established. So surely at the very start there would have been a number for every one?

[@atraindriver]

Most stations simply don't have a number, as in many cases there was nothing on the site until the railway moved in - or if there was, such as in central London, it was so thoroughly obliterated by the railway that what came afterwards was completely different and given new names. (The nearest modern day equivalent to the level of change would be where a large military base is closed down, completely cleared with new housing and industrial estates built on the site). The bigger stations may not even have a street/road name in the postal address; for example, when I worked there (back in the 1990s), Birmingham New Street station's official postal address recognised by Royal Mail was simply "New Street station, Birmingham B2 4QA".

[@simonadams71]

I notice the dashed line to Holborn Viaduct on one on those maps, new video inspiration?

[@petertaylor4396]

Is my memory playing tricks? Do I remember the trains being 1 1/2 decks on this line in the 60s.

[@a11oge]

I'm not sure I like to be consider as "a usefull BR line" - anyway, another fine video. "Be seeing you"

[@yorkshireball_animations]

I find the Waterloo and City line the East London line’s cousin, and they were best friends since they were both minor tube lines.