The TRUE FACES OF ELUNE: Mother, Maiden, Crone

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[@Pyromancer]

Allow me to clarify that I’m suggesting Elune could have been ordered just like her children. It could have gone Nerubians -> Trolls -> Elves and Elune herself may have undergone some changes as well, especially if she is working with or being taken advantage of by the Titans who are obviously known for ordering things.

[@V01t45]

Or she changes forms because her worshipers did as well. In the troll heritage questline you hear them say, the loa observe what mask you make and then change themselves to fit how you see them. This could be that elune changed her form to fit the "masks" her now changed worshipers "wear". The fal'dorei might not be mutations, but rather a partial removal of the masks of order for example.

[@RalphSawma]

A big clue that I feel is very overlooked is Cenarius' nature. He's the child of Elune and his top half looks like a night elf even though he precedes the night elves (he was teaching druidism to trolls before they found the well). That would indicate that the well of eternity made the dark trolls look like Elune (not the titans) which would further your theory about Y'shraaj and Elun'Ahir being one and the same.

[@SirenRyan]

This. The Kaldorei are her favored children and clearly have evolved to look like their goddess.

[@snazzydrew]

Y'shraaj and Elun'Ahir legit HAVE to be the same thing. It just makes so much sense. And it makes less sense that Amanthul did the same thing twice and only realized it was a bad idea the second time.

[@Pyromancer]

@@SirenRyanI think BOTH have changed. Elune has changed and so have her children.

[@wardenm]

Elune is the mother moon. The moon controls the tides. Ergo, Elune is obviously a murloc. 😂

[@christopherchuauhang4829]

Cook!

[@FirstNullLast]

Preach brother!

[@scottsawyer4032]

This

[@bison_life]

Again, I bet Metzen's secretly watching and taking notes.

[@ladylaelae1]

Pyro, I love lore things. But real life takes away from how much time/energy I can expend into WoW lore. What I love about you, Nobbel, Acco, and others, is that I can watch your videos and dive deeper into the lore thanks to your hard work despite my lack of time and energy. You are making this accessible for so many of us, and I will always be grateful and appreciative of that time you spend developing this information for all of us.

[@charlayned]

The first time I saw the Cosmology Chart for WoW, I thought about the Kabbalah. It is so much alike in so many ways. And Elune, to me, always has that Maiden, Mother, Crone aspect, I just hadn't connected Her with Trolls. Of course, I'm Wiccan so this stuff is right up there in my wheelhouse. I mainly work with Cerridwen, the triple Welsh/Irish goddess. If you see this symbol )O( that's Maiden (waxing moon), Mother (full moon), and Crone (waning moon). Horned God, Cernunnos, or Herne the Hunter (which drove me crazy in Ardenweald). Herne in Wicca and in the game invoke the Wild Hunt. Herne seeks to stop things that will harm his realm and sends the hunt, an energy sending, like spirits Can you see this one now, especially with the denizens of Ardenweald being "the dead" in Shadowlands? In Wiccan practice, someone who works with Herne (like my husband), can call the Wild Hunt. It's not done lightly and always as an action in response to an action, not on its own. And what you envision for that calling, you have got to make sure you're willing to get that energy back at you. So, if you invoke death, you better be ready to lose your life or someone close to you. Or invoke the IRS and they'll be auditing you. There's always a price in calling the Wild Hunt, which I don't think was made clear in game. But it's why I loved Ardenweald so much, the mythology of the realm was so close, closer than any other of the WoW realms in Shadowlands. I'ld be happy to answer any questions you have on that aspect of the game, how maybe some of it was come up with. And if I don't know it off the top of my head, I've got a full bookshelf (50+/- ) books to reference.

[@Pyromancer]

You should definitely join the discord and share your views and knowledge. We would benefit greatly from it! discord.gg/pyromancer if you are interested!

[@austinmcmahan6267]

love how the winter queen connects loa/trolls and elune/night elves!

[@burtonkevin32]

There is also a blood moon in WoD shadowmoon zone

[@Ferhhago_]

This was so fun to watch. Thank you!

[@renelarsen6479]

The Spider Queen in the new cinematic has a halfmoon headpiece that looks like the halfmoon from the Horned God wiki.

[@duridaa]

love to have you back doing this man.

[@GrotesqueN]

btw the talents in shadowlands had the Kabalah shape. Also if you wonna see the weird coronal Moon thats NOT red. Go to WOD Shadowlands and wait for the clouds to move away or fly up. It looks like the moon has tentacles of white light too. Blood moon is also present in WOD - at Tanaan Jungle.

[@TaliesinMyrddin]

The triple goddess conversation was really fun, and is the kind of thing why I joined the discord in the first place

[@shawnreichard5497]

1. The item was originally a quest item that you got for collecting the translations from stone pillars (This is the first of four that you collect). So the scroll is the translation of what is on the stone. 2. A Moon it is oddly capitalized. It is clearly speaking as if "A Moon" or "Moon" as a proper name. Very similar sounding to E'Lune. Perhaps a translation error? Remember the scroll is from translating a tablet. 3. Since this is the first of four scrolls for the quest, it is not clear if this is the first you are ment to collect for the quest, or if it is of the first legenand or perhaps both? The other scrolls are also labeled second, third, fourth legend. 4. The item is picked up after interacting with the tablets. The tablets are separately readable.

[@Cashadetv]

The first page of The First Troll Legend describes the blood moon event of SoD season 2

[@nweasels]

I'm so glad to see you back Pyromancer. Also, on the subject of trolls, I find it friggin hilarious, even though it's from BFA, that Troll iconography and architecture is based around Titanic Biohazard containment architecture.

[@fatihcelaloglu416]

The Chronicle drawing you showed us at 14:40 should be Ashamane's Fall. Till The War Of Tha Ancients to Legion and Shadowlands we see her effecting into recent lore, and she still stays at ardenweald to be born back =) check the WoWpedia for her ;) maybe we see Elune using Ashamane as a vessel in the upcoming future?

[@Pyromancer]

I am VERY sus of what occurred with Ashamane. The way Mueh’zala says she made a baaaaad decision makes me think it’s possible that she *did* side with them and is a high risk entity to have around in Ardenweald.

[@fatihcelaloglu416]

@@Pyromancer i am feeling the same way. Although, we cant be %100 certain till the Wild God mystery on Chronology Map solved or even a glimpse of it revealed. Can they be programmed like the titan keepers or do they have full free will? =) its still a mystery to me

[@Avrah]

holy shit that item was added in vanilla. that's wild. that image of the art in the last pages of chronicle looks like syzygy to me.

[@antball4177]

Pyromancer one of my favorite youtubers........His passion for WoW lore really hype me up for the back story of WoW

[@krystalphillips3555]

Dude I love you Pyro, I am a lore nerd big time but no one in my guild is into the lore! It is nice you discuss a part of the game I have to enjoy in game alone and coming here makes my day! GJ

[@wildfire_gaming]

Did anyone else notice that Alleria's new armor looks a lot like Tyrande's night warrior armor? Same color scheme, same patterns, same blue gems, ... Can't be a coincidence right?

[@Drivestort]

Thank god Pyro spends his energy on stuff like this instead of real life conspiracies.

[@epiccthulu]

whenever I bring up the triple goddess for WoW, I get laughed at. Nice to have validation

[@charlayned]

I know, right? I've thought the same. You're not the only one out here. )O(

[@stephencampbell7603]

i hate you and acco, pyro. really got me wanting to come back to the game. keep up the incredible work

[@spacecorgii5426]

Elune always gave me the vibe of Selune from D&D. She is constant battle with her twin sister Shar, who is considered the dark side of the moon and darkness itself. Selune is light of the moon and is associated with life. Xal'atath has some similarities to Shar with the way she talks about Elune and how she's the harbinger wanting to usher in darkness and void. Shar was also banished kinda like Xal'atath. Im very curious where they will take Elune in the story!

[@snazzydrew]

Oooh finally mentioning the Sephirot!!!!! Pyro is cooking!

[@deedlit7638]

The thing with the two eyes ripped out could be also maybe a parable. Maybe one eye only sees the one and the other eye only watches the other. so the different eye colours. mabye? That just came to my mind when you talked about it and I saw the different eye colours at 13:15

[@metalpurist83]

They've heavily drawn on celtic mythology throughout the wow lore cycles, Ardenweald was the most blatant. The entire area is a reference to the Celtic "otherworld" I would add that Bwonsamdi's wife Maman Brigitte is actually a migration of the triple goddess Bridget, brought by Irish chattel slaves who were imported into Haiti to work the plantations there.

[@mears82]

heres a thought for you pyro. when you said about the many faces of elune could she be a many faced god similarly to brahma? troll on one, elf on another etc? just something that popped into my mind when listening :D. which admitedly you were looking at the kabala chart at the time so might have been what kicked the thought into my head

[@phoenixascending6501]

About bramah. Hindus also have a triple goddess in Parvati, Durga, and Kali.

[@nathaliemlromer]

When you said "triple goddess" I was reminded of the Devourer of Souls and the Reliquary of Souls. What if they're also "triple gods" or "triple goddesses" as well in reality???

[@Pyromancer]

I think that those are representations of the same thing tbh.

[@rl1585]

wasn't expecting to see the sefirot pulled up on a wow video lmao

[@dpolanski4143]

if you wanna talk about trinities, we also have the tank, the dps and the healer

[@albertplayayays6019]

Also the moon that is perfectly visible through the ceiling in kings rest almost like the trolls there worshipped it

[@andrewpaul8732]

Kabalah correspond with chakras while the bridges between, lets say hud and netzach is represented by one ofthe 22 Minor arcana (taroh). the astrology system is a systemnof 12 divide into 4 groups of 3. a beginning process enduring an closing. these are the 4 "elements" seen in avatar and stuff. cool to see you touch on this.

[@housefullofransackery3505]

Hear ya talking about AQ, hope you got to see what I was telling you about during the stream other day. Blew my mind when I saw the skybox

[@loganboyd10]

Well don’t leave the rest of us hanging !

[@housefullofransackery3505]

@@loganboyd10 the skybox in AQ20 is an unoccluded/unhidden view of our galaxy including the blue child. Seemingly the only place in the game with it. (Was in cata classic at time of discovery)

[@SWHHReice]

Coronal mass ejection

[@Foster_The_Wild]

Troll, master race. I feel like everybody hates trolls but my main is a troll Survival Hunter. I like to RP as a native to the planet that seeks wisdom from the Loa's and asks for their children to accompany me on my journey.

[@Ozraevun]

If any of the facets would be the "mother" it would be Elune imo. She's the mother of Cenarius and the "mother moon" according to the night elves. But it would be cool if Elune actually looks like the Haronir or whatever that new spiky proto-elfish-troll thingy is called. Seeing as that is obviously an ancient race and they have both troll and elf aspects. Would also explain why Cenarius has that wierd wooden hand, since they look like they have a deep connection to Nature/Life.

[@leekendrick6015]

The wow cosmic forces image kind of resembles the Kabbalah. Also couldn’t blizzard just modify the legend and in place of two horns you’d have two tusks. Loa of death

[@bekjanz]

The owl loa is going to reveal some shit, i think its the "closest" loa to elune, with whole owls and moon connections in the game. Thats why its called loa, because the dark trolls worshiped him and elune and then turned to elves

[@violet4239]

All the way back in 2019 I made fan art of Elune as a troll, I just believe it makes all the sense for her to be so.

[@elliotbottel2674]

With all the magic being used on the surface. Seems having them mix and keep empowering said magic come back to her/it at the end in death or defeat. Sort of empowering what slumbers beaneth. So many race were whispered to do certain things ultimately to destroy themselve at the end. Would be nice to see all trolls and by default night/blood elfs to fall under 1 banner if this is true. Their all in prime locations for defensive/offensives postions.

[@rollomick7754]

In the History of Warcraft, it states in a book that the titans Ordered, hundreds of millions of worlds. I think its safe to say we live in a Titan ordered universe

[@Kross415]

I always thought that An'she and Mu'sha fighting the shadows/void with the Earth Mother (as Azeroth) was weird, it makes more sense to me if the Earth Mother is Eonar. It could also made sense if Eonar empowered a creature (Maybe loa or Naaru) to make/empower Elune (Upstart Godess) but if that's true I don't see Sargeras being An'she. But it's also weird that ''the moon'' get such a spotlight when ''the sun'' gets almost none. It's also weird that the Shadowlands' cosmic chart has a moon drawing on ''Death'' and a sun drawing on ''Life'' when Elune is always conected to life. Also Mu'SHA->Elune, if the ''sha'' right there is just coincidence it's just crazy 🤣

[@housefullofransackery3505]

I wonder if there's any history on the Mushan, if they have anything to do with anything because the naming convention seems interesting

[@GustavoNoronha]

I recently learned about Asherah, consort to Jaweh, who is the prototype thunder god that became what most people call God these days. Sounds similar to our favorite old god in the original pronunciation, is associated with trees and some writings have the name spelled as "Asherot". That's a lot of coincidences right there.

[@Verdictus13]

I look forward to the Titanomachy.

[@hitzgiwittker8655]

Blood Moon, Full Moon, Hidden Moon (New moon phase = renewal?), full moon = light, blood moon = life/blood, new moon = void/shadow, renewal. My first thoughts when I heard this.

[@n051de4]

big brain pyro

[@housefullofransackery3505]

Doesn't the moon darken into an eclipse during the hour of twilight dungeons?

[@bersabrie]

So is Elune like the aliens from South Park? Would she become a taco that poops ice cream if a certain race worshipped her as such?

[@Ctar99n]

Elune is the mother and Winter queen the Crone with eonar the maiden

[@Dabasin]

small comment, When you mentioned Yonngol were ordered into Tauren. you said "I believe" suggesting you e not sure. Litterally today while playing remix, found a scroll leaning against a tree or something (found like 4 of them already). In a much longer way, it was saying something along the lines, There was a great race of bovine hunters wandering the plains. When the mist shrouded the pandaria, they got stuck here and are now called Yonngol. It also talked about how they are feared and resected, because not a lot of races can live and survive nearby the mantid.

[@charlayned]

The scrolls are wonderful for lore. And there are many of them. If you get all of them, there's an achievement and you get the red riding cloud mount (the mage surfboard with the cloud under it.).

[@Dadbot]

How can you analyze and speculate the lore without spoilers? What if the beta holds key points to the very lore we are discussing? It’s like we are just limiting ourselves to what we can know.

[@Avrah]

you can look up anything you want lol. pyro just prefers to experience the game as it unfolds instead of finding out everything on wowhead.

[@Pyromancer]

You wait and play the game when it’s actually out instead of ruining it for no reason…?

[@lxxvx]

Why are red lines on some thumbnails, as if you've watched them already but you haven't? I feel like that would make people accidentally skip your video, not increase clicks. Or maybe it's a KZbin bug. Always wondered, either way..

[@jvo1464]

No red lines showing on my end

[@lxxvx]

@@jvo1464 KZbin bug it is, then.

[@blackwolves6925]

Quetzalcoatl was a snake throw at the sun, and instead of burning from it,the snake shallow the sun and evolved and grew wings. Born of the eclipse! Chaos.

[@sailormoney9030]

Quetzalcoatl is Hakkar, the Gurubashi loa

[@blackwolves6925]

@sailormoney9030 would explain why a hakkar is trying to manifest itself, using the green dragonflight and their ties with moon goddess, has something to do with the eclipse.

[@VerdictBDO]

If Elune is a troll, not gonna lie, personally that would be a bummer beyond anything.

[@snazzydrew]

That's a weirdly personal take to have on a fantasy universe.

[@Pyromancer]

I’m not sure if it clicked or not, but she probably isn’t a troll anymore. I’m saying she likely used to be. Just like… actual trolls and elves.

[@xxmiami]

If elune is a troll....I quit after 20 years.

[@drudragon2614]

LFG

[@OldManRiv3r]

Man there is nothing like theory-crafting. Its always entirely the most exciting part of a fandom, and I feel like WoW has always been great for it since you sorta *"live"* in the world as its story unfolds around you. I wish more things were out there with it, Overwatch used to have it, Destiny still kinda does but it lost me awhile ago.

[@jt5765]

Maybe Elune is the one who absorbed all the Spirit element on Azeroth & not the Azeroth world soul itself.

[@pooliotv7885]

the primus also has stag like horns ... just saying

[@christopherchuauhang4829]

Still think Eonar should’ve been the sister of the winter queen.

[@NotjustGrey]

Azshara blue child.

[@tylermcnally8232]

You just watched xaxxas and are regurgitating.

[@odst123451]

Y’sh doesn’t have stag horns. The fuck you smokin?

[@tylermcnally8232]

Can't spell his full name?

[@odst123451]

@@tylermcnally8232 I can but I’d rather cut it short for speed.

[@Pyromancer]

@@odst123451Use your eyes.

[@odst123451]

@@Pyromancer I did which why I wanna know what you’re smokin.

[@stevannedic7836]

I love pyro and his theories, but i dont feel like Blizzard goes into that much detail anymore. They have fumbled the story so hard its insane to even suggest that they know what they are doing. At this point im more convinced that the writers just write down Bellular and Pyromancers theories and use them.

[@ScarlettSpitfyre]

I said the same thing, many times. The old Blizzard maybe they could think like this, because they read a lot and took multiple inspirations. But the current writers, just NO! This happens in all of entertainment with the new wave writers, they do only ony one thing for the WOW effect of the story: "subverting expectations", like they want to say, by making the good guys actually bad and the villains misunderstood and sometimes good guys.

[@tylermcnally8232]

Yea... Good guys going bad and bad guys being good is actually how real life works pal. Haven't you heard the saying. We are extremely lucky that only the good guys have won the major wars.... But did they? Or are you just lead to believe you are on the good side.