Pyscript - Should you Learn it?

[@johnhanley2431]

If your focus is on a language, JavaScript versus Python, then you are missing to objective of PyScript. AI, ML and Data Science are Python frameworks. Now that you can run those frameworks in the browser is very significant. PyScript is not targeting the web developer. PyScript is targeting the Data Science, AI and ML developer who wants to move CPU cycles from the backend to the frontend. That is a major feature and has global implications on how next generation systems will be designed.

[@jorge1869]

Agree👌

[@whilechannel]

Tensorflow JS….

[@jorge1869]

Beautiful, better explained impossible, totally agree with you.

[@mage1over137]

While I agree that this is important for all the reasons you said, it's more general than that. The reason why python is the language of big data, is that it's easier to write to awesome tooling. The fact JavaScript is the language in the browser is an historical accident, and an unfortunate one at that. But now that pyscript is an option I think we are going to see some real magic happen. I'm working on setting up a Prefect agent in the browser, so you can have reactive pyscript elements in the UI. Once pyscript becomes more mature, I think we will see python as the language of the entire stack, and the reason is simply economics. It's cheaper and easier to maintain having the whole project in one language opposed to having both python in and JS devs.

[@mage1over137]

​@@whilechannelthat's one library, vs all of the tooling you get with python.

[@spotted756]

@Stefan, it actually depends. There's a bunch of data scientists working big corporations that could develop their MVPs/POCs and/or internal tools entirely in Python.

[@losiu998]

Yea, there already frameworks like Dash/Streamlit that empowers data scientists to create dashboards. I think Pyscript could help them to create more advanced dashboards but I don't see any other usecase.

[@bjeribs]

Great talk. It’s interesting to see where it goes my guess is maybe data science in the browser

[@fredericoamigo]

Good points and a lot of wisdom as usual! However, when it comes to pyscript, I must say I think it is really exiting. There are lots of people learning python right now, meaning there’ll be a big community of pyscript in the future. It probably won’t replace JavaScript, but I wouldn’t be surprised if pyscript becomes a major player in the future, maybe for making dashboards etc. I’ve checked it out a bit, and it works really well! I especially like that it works great with numpy and matplotlib. Anyway, my point is, I don’t disagree with you, but i don’t think people should underestimate pyscript either. It’s a great tool that shows a great potential:-)

[@paulholsters7932]

Like so many tools show great potential and are very popular. But niche and not widely used. But indeed it might. But for a newbie I would recommend learning frontend development with JS instead of pycharm no matter how unbelievably fast and great and better it is.

[@JDMorris81]

I think Pyscript, Brython and Anvil are all very promising. As a new coder focused mainly on learning Python I welcome all technologies advancing what can be done with it.

[@ukaszzbrozek6470]

Python in a browser would be use for very specific use cases like AI and machine learning. JS isn't very good with complex calculations and is really painful to rewrite and update packages for It that already exist in Python. Basically the use case is that company want to use computing power of user by moving solution from server to website without rewriting it. That is brilliant and would stay with us.

[@ukaszzbrozek6470]

@@dohnjoe342 This tech uses Webassembly. I am just a simple Front End dev so I don't know the details. I think Tenserflow was rewritten to JS for a reason.

[@abcq1]

Hi, Stef. Thanks for the talk, agree with you. But there's another thing that came out recently and aims to replace Node. I'm talking about new JS runtime called Bun . Are you familiar with it and would you like to share your thought on that. Is it something worth to consider nowadays? Unlike PyScript, authors of Bun claim that it does more than Node and does it enormously faster.

[@orazgulcayew2189]

if I didn't see your comment I would say this

[@ukaszzbrozek6470]

What I understund Bun is going compatible with npm packeges. It should be possible to move all code wroten for node.js to Bun. Bun is many times fastes so it is going to replace node and deno.

[@paulholsters7932]

If it’s going to replace it just being faster is not enough and even then it will take at least a decade. The tooling around a techstack like a UI component library like Prime is what’s 100 times more important than speed because it makes you create beautiful stuff much faster. The ecosystem around bun is ZERO. Number of jobs is ZERO. Can’t you add up one and one?

[@illegalsmirf]

That's exactly what the world needs - another Javascript framework!

[@abcq1]

@@illegalsmirf It's not a framework

[@BneiAnusim]

The whole point of Pyscript is the "One Ring to Rule Them All" approach, which is Python in Front and Back-end like Javascript and Node. 😉

[@Akutukananu]

😱

[@dakoderii4221]

Write Python for Front-end and JavaScript for Back-end. 🙃

[@PerpetualPreponderer]

With all these high level simpler syntax languages prioritising write speed over run time, I've been wondering for some time, and nowadays quite perplexed...how do these high level languages actually get the machine to do stuff? Like does it have to be compiled to a lower level language like C & then recompiled to something like assembly in order to actually instruct the hardware? Or are we somehow past that now???

[@paulholsters7932]

Well it seems to be a trend to use your favorite backend language also in the frontend: node JavaScript - blazor c# - rust WASM and now python pycharm. Seems like a natural development. The most important thing is the ecosystem around a techstack . Things like a ui component library. That will boom your write speed. The tech is secondary. Completely agree with what’s said: it’s all about writespeed. Unless you have an app that is used by millions of people. But that is only 1% of apps.

[@NewLondonMarshall]

*pyscript. PyCharm is an IDE :)

[@virtualvessel0]

Absolutely, I don't see it as a replacer, but...simply pulling into a browser a Python runtime in one line. Far easier than deploying/configuring and calling a container to run your code.

[@krfloll]

Pyscript is more than anything else an example of what is possible with wasm. For example, an html based reporting engine written with Pyscript using pandas and OOP in python would be great. A lot of work has gone in to making Javascript a good language. It isn't, really. Pyscript may not be the future but it's a good peak at it

[@jasonking1284]

@@robbyz512 It's a load of cr ap. All these libraries is like trying to put makeup on Quasimodo...

[@erykczajkowski8226]

For anyone looking for a space to innovate - here's an established 'technology' that should be erased from the face of the Earth and buried 6 feet under: CSS. 1. It doesn't support very common operations (eg. no justify-vertically) 2. Theoretically supported operations do not work on their own, because they require certain configuration of parent-child elements, so 3. Instead of having to set a single property you need to set a whole set of them (eg flexbox), 4. Working with CSS consists of finding workarounds for its inherent deficiencies.

[@davien001]

About to learn CSS, hope I'm safe to?

[@erykczajkowski8226]

@@davien001 you're safe to, just prepare for lots of frustration. ;)

[@HmongCrypto]

I love python. I use it for everything. But recently, I been having problems with it when it comes to web development specifically web3. Their are definitely more libraries to work with javascript when it comes to web3. Python is great for data science, machine learning.....etc I see pyscript as something that will bridge javascript & python. I don't see pyscript as a standalone. More so....an extension or add-on

[@danielihenacho]

Except Pyscript would be used for niche applications, probably somewhere like ML and Data Science, I guess. Just my thoughts on it.

[@northborneoguy]

Thanks for sharing this video Stef! What do you think of Trongate? It's a new PHP framework.

[@asdfasdfasdfasdf219]

Good video! Can you share what Java Framework was that? no worries if you cannot share the technology's name.

[@ShaderKite]

"Speed of write time is far more important than runtime" - I wouldn't say that this is always the case (watched only 5mins of that video so I apologize if this has been addressed later on in the video). Yes, A LOT of the time it is very much true - that's why scripting languages like JS or Python are so popular. But there are also performance-critical applications that require good runtime performance. But those are usually not in the browser and not for consumer-facing applications. Just wanted to say that your statement is very often true, but not always!

[@StefanMischook]

I agree, and if I had to put a number to it, I’d say 95% + of the time you don’t have to worry about runtime speed.

[@manm5302]

Agree with you on run time speed being key in some industries. I remember Elon Musk told Lex Friedman that Tesla AI is using a lot of C and C++. They need to squeeze every microsecond out of the processor.

[@pedrojose9135]

Even with some of those performance-critical applications, some big companies will prefer adding more hardware resources vs investing time in developing. Not for all...

[@StefanMischook]

@@manm5302 That would be a textbook example of when runtime speed is critical. Rare indeed ...

[@cissemy]

Hi Stef Will web assembly replace javascript ?

[@keithcarrillo8238]

Nah nothing will replace it js. It's always new things that'll simply grow a solid place in tech, but new tech often doesnt replace anything.

[@sevdalink6676]

I would really like to see competition to JavaScript, just because their monopoly on the frontend pushed them to think they can mess with backend and started now to overwhelm us with their 'new and newer and newer' runtimes :D

[@prosperdeogratius4888]

🤣🤣🤣🤣I'm waiting for some JS person to call you a 'bun' in here

[@sevdalink6676]

@@prosperdeogratius4888 haha. To call me a bun, and in a few months to call me another new runtime's name :D

[@bennguyen1313]

There's a older (Red Eye Coder) video that does a side by side comparison to perform a prime-finding task, and it takes python almost 3 minutes to do what javascript does in 9 seconds! I wonder if the performance has changed since then.

[@StefanMischook]

Probably not.

[@borasumer]

Pyscript.. . They must have really taken their time to find this super unique name for the project.

[@CarlosJa]

Bun javascript is super fast. Look into it. It's also in alpha phase.

[@joanapaulasoliveira]

It is maybe because of such stabilization that there is the tendency of automating everything now. Coding scaffold is stable and trustworthy.

[@mrwacks4705]

Great stuff as always.

[@yonatancohen7642]

pyscript will be useful if you want to implement ML on the client side, I don't if its really useful but its an option

[@anb4351]

I welcome all technologies advancing, however don't have any great hopes for Pyscript anytime soon. Agree with your analysis that JavaScript already is good enough, and I don't see how PyScript can be any better. There maybe slight advantages but nothing revolutionary that javaScript can't achieve

[@jasonking1284]

Better syntax....huge advantage...

[@TheHybrid12]

Some of us suck at JavaScript. If I can be in python, I can be fast.

[@Araj763]

Pyscript can boost the prospects of backend flask and django in backend .

[@klc3rd]

I don’t see why this is something to worry about, but it would be cool to be able to use some of their libraries directly in the browser, like some of the data science stuff. Though that’s a very niche case. I don’t see it usurping anything, but it would be a nice addition.

[@jasonking1284]

It is going to replace Javascript...

[@klc3rd]

@@jasonking1284 you really think so? Why? What about it is so much better than JavaScript/Typescript and all of its frameworks that warrants the entire industry shifting to it? It has to not only be better, but so much better that it warrants investing tons of money into it by big companies. I have my doubts.

[@jasonking1284]

@@klc3rd Much better syntax...

[@klc3rd]

@@jasonking1284 lmao debatable, but even if true that is not a reason for it to end up replacing JavaScript. You thinks thousands of companies are going to upend JavaScript, invest 100s of millions of dollars, because some dude made a way for Python to work in the browser. Python is quite old, it could have been done before and wasn’t. With the popularity of React, Anguilar, NodeJS, Vue, Svelte, etc etc. The fact that it’s built into browsers. The fact that JavaScript is also generally faster and backends support more traffic. You think they’re going to collectively replace JavaScript with Python because you think the syntax is better lol which is very arguable. Typescript is also better IMO. Python is good because it’s easy to learn and read, and the data science libraries are pretty good, that’s pretty much it. In every other aspect it’s inferior and so far the industry seems to agree.

[@jasonking1284]

@@klc3rd "popularity" ? I would call it indoctrination and coercion. The ONLY time you could claim popularity was if the web browsers supported more than one language and then if the majority chose to use Javascript (highly unlikely), then... your assertion that most people loved Javascript could be valid.

[@leonf.7893]

But this isn't some thing that will be supported natively in all browsers. Pretty much anything can be compiled to wasm.

[@tebogoselepe969]

why are you talking about replacement?

[@madhankumar2051]

I don’t know JavaScript and I don’t like JavaScript. I know python and I love python , so for simple web apps I’d rather go with pyscript than JavaScript after it reaches beta . I’m talking about simple poc apps that are not do much focused in a beautiful ui instead small projects involving data processing ml which can work on just a browser …

[@paulholsters7932]

Agreed but I wouldn’t use it for a real client. They expect a nice UI that is easy to use. With Prime you can accomplish in not to much time.

[@kaischmid9118]

At 7:44 you probably meant Pyscript Not Pycharm 🤓

[@StefanMischook]

Yep

[@Jose-cf8ps]

Will webstack replace swift and kotlin?

[@catholic_zoomer_bro]

Fully? I seriously doubt it in the next 10 years. But some technologies like ionic capacitor are making great advancements in that direction

[@AgileDeveloper-v2z]

It‘s only a matter of time. Hardware has become so powerful now, that people don‘t know where to throw all this extra available RAM and time capacities. Developers starting to avoid shifting bits, and operate at a much higher level. Everyone wants no-code low-code, and choose technology based on developer comfort.

[@tobidegnon4409]

I'm a python developer and I love python but as soon as I saw the news I was like "wtf? Why do we need this? It's a waste of time"

[@Edvard-Aliev]

Future - rust & golang... Not php/python etc...

[@MuhazamCSE]

Great idea with the vm to avoid virus

[@javierespinoza7075]

7:59 Data Science MVPs

[@mikeg3810]

So learn these two languages first if you are new to coding?

[@StefanMischook]

Learn Python.

[@shehab976]

We all know it wont replace javascript but surely lot of js devs going to use pyscript for simplicity and data processing and versatile functiong of python,of course the libraries for doing things rather using js,pyscript cant kill js cz js is underneath it,in ur house u see the colors paints not concrete,this is how js will remain but in the shadow

[@jorge1869]

It's funny how many people in the oasis of ignorance make comparisons of a technology as new as pyscript with javascript. But what makes me laugh the most is that the mediocre programmer claims without knowing the future that pyscript cannot compete with javascript. I'm sick of this puppets.

[@mage1over137]

Pyscript doesn't have to out perform JS; it just has to be good enough that the end user can't tell the difference, and easier to use then JS. And here's why, while JS is very established as the browser language, it's still a mess of language. Python3.10 or above is a much more modern language with much better tooling than JS can ever hope to be. But crux of it, it will be cheaper to have your backend language and front end language the same, and I don't see NodeJS replacing python on the backend.

[@robertmazurowski5974]

Next good tech idea. Please automate the government using Javascript. There is a chance the central bank will print infinity money for everyone due to a bug.

[@joecater894]

I feel python will butt into other areas and be absolutely totally huge... and completely take over. However, I have no rational reason... just my gut... :) ...SO could be wrong. Just feels the way the wind is blowing.

[@illegalsmirf]

I hate Python. It's used in some Linux scripts and other things (Ansible) but you say it's only for data science? I wish it was.

[@sharanchakradhar]

Past is PHP, Future is Pyscript.

[@tyraelhermosa]

Ah yes, those pictures of fat George Lucas. I remember them, before the dark times. You gotta watch out for them.

[@SaiyanJin85]

Ruby has been replaced though 😅

[@tatendamunenge8784]

Things like pyscript are what happens when pple are overpaid and underworked it just someone bored and trying to be clever

[@informationtechnologymanag5323]

Py-script will replace javascript

[@kosnowman]

how come pyscript looks like php to me? is it me or ...? print("hello world")

[@SHONNER]

I don't like the idea of my code running on someone's server without me knowing what's going on with their server. It's a clever idea though. I'm sticking with using Bottle for now still.

[@jasonwelsh417]

Oh look, another JavaScript killer

[@coquibunny8797]

👏👍💖👋

[@369seeker9]

Pyscript is still new, clunky, slow, and not performative. Its more of a cool functionality rather than a useful tool.

[@happyfreeky]

What worries me is how many different py-in-browser options there already, including but not limited to: pyscript, pynecone, Brythonic, justPy, NiceGUI. I support a JavaScript replacement, especially Python-based. But for a serious contender, itd be great if these were all merged into one package - say pyscript. Imagine what could be done if all these teams were one

[@JaskoonerSingh]

Nope

[@adrianspikes6454]

IMHO...open source has become 🗑! Everyone is bringing in new stuff and for what REAL reason? None, except to disrupt industry. Yet most cant program in anything else. Hate Js frameworks and only learned Angular because it was the best framework to use TS a language I did not want to learn. I would rather use C#, C++, F#, R, VB, VBA and TSQL. Hated MS but now I hate those that avoid MS.

[@adrianspikes6454]

@@AgileDeveloper-v2z Thanks, never had anyone call me a nerd.