MGSV Destroys Franchise, Unless Gray Fox is Venom Snake

[@PythonSelkan]

As requested, please find timestamps for every topic covered. Enjoy❗🦊 0:00 - Intro 2:21 - Body Double & Gray Fox is the New Snake (2013) Theories | Backstory 3:51 - Why Gray Fox became our Body Double Suspect 5:33 - Online Criticism 7:12 - Clarifying Online Misinformation 9:22 - Why Fans Dismissed the Body Double Theory 10:04 - Differences Between Big Boss & Venom Snake | Cinematic Montage 11:27 - The Belief of 'Outside The Box' Thinking 12:17 - Chapter 3 Teased by Konami & Hideo Kojima 13:03 - Hideo Kojima Confirms MGSV is Complete 13:18 - Leaked MGSV Script Reveals "Phantom Pain" Theme also applies for Player's Loss 13:48 - The most Unreliable Narrator in Metal Gear History 14:53 - Storytelling Perspective & Theory Plausibility 15:56 - Disclaimer 16:11 - *CHAPTER 1 | PHANTOM TIMELINE* 16:52 - The Vietnam War Timeline Issue 18:45 - Cipher's Manipulation of Venom Snake 20:13 - Miller in Rhodesia & Gray Fox's History 21:14 - Origin of Diamond Dogs in Rhodesia 21:56 - Passport Inconsistencies 23:11 - Venom's Former Self is Caucasian 24:17 - *CHAPTER 2 | DISSOCIATIVE IDENTITY* 24:45 - The Age of Gray Fox 25:38 - Similarities Between Null(Gray Fox) & Venom Snake 26:32 - Why Gray Fox can easily serve as Big Boss's Body Double 27:16 - Frank Jaeger is NOT Gray Fox's Real Name 27:46 - Gray Fox is an Empty Vessel that can represent the Player like The Medic 29:14 - Why the Passport might be Fake 30:08 - Why the Passport could raise Questions on Venom's Coma 31:32 - Venom's Hallucinations 33:05 - Venom's Hypnagogic Brainwashing 34:24 - Why Ground Zeroes was potentially one of Venom's Implanted Memories 41:46 - How Ground Zeroes fuelled the Player's Vengeance in The Phantom Pain 43:04 - Venom Snake is the Equivalent of Raiden 44:35 - The Identity Struggles of Gray Fox 45:28 - The Enigma behind the same Voice of The Medic & Big Boss 46:00 - Separate Identities 48:07 - The Confusion of Venom's Identity 49:25 - Truth Tapes could be Lies according to Leaked MGSV Script 51:31 - The Train Station Chants 52:54 - *CHAPTER 3 | CHARACTERIZATION* 53:53 - Hideo Kojima's Importance of Characterization (Quoted) 54:23 - Gray Fox's Characterization on Venom Snake 55:15 - Characterization throughout the Metal Gear Series 56:34 - Gray Fox's Characterization Hidden from MGSV Trailers 57:20 - The Mystery behind the Cyborg Ninja Outfit in MGSV 58:53 - Venom's Facial Scars matching Scars from Gray Fox Torture in Mozambique 59:52 - The Element of Surprise in Storytelling 1:00:39 - Hideo Kojima's Misleading Intentions 1:03:09 - *CHAPTER 4 | FACE OFF* 1:04:05 - What Happens after The Phantom Pain? 1:04:47 - Big Boss's Ruse 1:05:41 - Why Gray Fox was always involved in Big Boss's Ruse 1:07:31 - Venom Snake & Skull Face Parallelism explained 1:09:28 - Venom losing his Human Side in his Quest for Revenge (Hideo Kojima Interview) 1:10:13 - Dr. Madnar Reawakens Venom Snake as a Cyborg (Kasler's Claims in MG2:SS) 1:11:31 - Cyborg, Ninja & Gray Emblems are awarded to Players upon completing MGSV 1:11:53 - The favorite Metal Gear character of Quiet Actress, Stefanie Joosten 1:12:28 - MGSV's Twist raises major Lore problems for Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake 1:13:42 - How Big Boss faked his Death until Zanzibar 1:14:06 - Big Boss conceals his identity in Outer Heaven 1:14:43 - Switching of Identities explained (Face Off) 1:15:53 - Big Boss & Gray Fox switch their Identities (As per MGSV's Ending) 1:17:31 - Deception in the Metal Gear Franchise 1:18:09 - A Disguised Big Boss is able to Rescue the Outer Heaven Survivors 1:18:20 - The Skull Face Motif comes to fruition with Venom's Survival 1:18:55 - Big Boss & Gray Fox switch roles back for Zanzibar 1:19:22 - The Tragic Story of Metal Gear's Unsung Hero 1:20:20 - Post-Theory PythonSelkan Commentary 1:21:58 - MGSV mysteriously changes Dr. Clark's Year of Death from Canonical Timeline 1:23:21 - Dr. Clark's Death is further emphasized in Master Collection Volume 1 1:23:50 - Konami hints change in Dr. Clark's Year of Death is intentional 1:24:22 - MGSV clarifies Dr. Clark's Gender confusion in MGS1 1:25:16 - The Importance of Dr. Clark in the Metal Gear Franchise 1:26:06 - Gray Fox being Venom Snake brings Multiple Story Arcs to Full Circle 1:27:46 - Venom Snake NOT being Gray Fox jeopardizes the Franchise's Canon 1:31:54 - PythonSelkan's Closure Commentary 1:34:25 - Outro

[@thoraxtheimpalor1345]

In actual cannon I can place gray foxes location to Germany in 1987 assuming that metal gear solid 2 on the msx takes place in 1997, since shadow moses was 2003 which the phantom pain takes place in 1984, but gray fox gets captured 2 times (time frame unknown) and the second time while getting tortured they cut off his ears and nose so if he gets rescued for the first time by "big boss" 1 -3 years after venom snake is running around, then the theory doesnt work, if he was rescued before 1984 for the first time the theory doesnt work what with the second captures events... Venom snake is big boss and dies in the 1995 mission n313 outer heaven. While the real big boss is building a base in Zanzibar, now the real question which of the 2 setup fox hound and trained snake

[@MrHardesty]

You've been at this for almost ten years mate, maybe it's time to let it go and just accept thay Kojima left you and many fans extremely dissapointed. MGS5 from a plot/narrative standpoint is the worst in the franchise and hey, that's ok, it's time to move on and let go of that phantom pain. Big Boss : They did it again. They used you to kill me. The Patriots. No... Their proxies... In order to bury us... They did it again. In the end, they're no more than a program. All they can do is repeat the same pattern over and over again. Do me a favor, will you? Take me over to her. There's one more thing Naomi wanted me to tell you. About the... Old FOXDIE in your body... The only that mutated. The new FOXDIE inside you continues to multiply. At the same time... It is preventing the old... Mutated FOXDIE from reproducing. The new FOXDIE is uprooting the old. Naomi confirmed it in her follow-up. The mutants are receding. Before long, they'll be gone entirely. Snake : Does that mean the mutant strain won't cause an epidemic? Big Boss : It will only live as long as you do. But event then... The process will just repeat itself. One day, the new FOXDIE, too, will start to mutate... And become a new threat. But that is, if you manage to live that long. Snake : Am I going to die? Big Boss : Everyone dies. You can't stop it. You can't run away from it. Let me tell you something... Don't... Don't waste the life you have left fighting. I've never thought of you... As a son. But I've always respected you as a soldier. And... As a man. If you'd been in my place back then... Maybe you wouldn't have made the same mistakes that I did. Ever since the day I killed The Boss... With my own hands... I... Was already dead. Boss... You were right. It's not about changing the world. It's about doing our best to leave the world... The way it is. It's about respecting the will of others... And believing in your own. Isn't that... What you fought for? At last... I understand the meaning behind what you did. At last... I understand the truth behind your courage. It's almost time for me to go. And with me... The last ember of this fruitless war dies out. And at last those old evils will be gone. Once the source of evil returns to zero... A new one... A new future... Will be born. That new world... Is yours to live in. Not as a snake... But... As a man. Know this... Zero and I... Liquid and Solidus... We all fought a long, bloody war for our liberty. We fought to free ourselves from nations... And systems... And norms, and ages. But no matter how hard we tried, the only liberty we found... Was on the inside... Trapped within those limits. The Boss and I may have chosen different paths... But in the end, we were both trapped inside the same cage... Liberty. But you... You have been given freedom. Freedom to be... Outside. You are nobody's tool now... No one's toy. You are no longer a prisoner of fate. You are no longer a seed of war. It's time for you to see the outside world with your own eyes. Your body... And your soul... Are your own. Forget about us. Live... For yourself. And find... A new lease on life. Boss... You only need one snake. No... The world would be better off without snakes. This is good... Isn't it?

[@nowonmetube]

What's the background music @ 3 minutes 15 seconds?

[@8bitorbust-w3n]

Wild shot in the dark. We know Naomi was born in 79. Now I cannot recall an actual age that Naomi stated she was when she said she was an Orphan. Is it possible Naomi may have been 5 or 6 at the time he took her in then shortly after that he fell in love with Gustava. The wall fell 88,89 my mind slips me but him not being able to bring her to the US makes him bitter. I mean..... Maybe .... I Dunno. Just a thought.

[@8bitorbust-w3n]

@@thoraxtheimpalor1345 Yes! Great catch.

[@doomslayer9138]

Curiosity: Solid Snake didn't die after MGS4, that was Irosquis Pliskin disguising himself as Old Snake while the real one was in a coma after smoking 500 cigarettes.

[@morsecode980]

500 CIGARETTES

[@itsddashrock]

Leems Segit

[@giovanniprovost]

The 500 cigarettes part really locks this theory in imo.

[@henshimai]

Five. Hundred. Cigarettes.

[@SirOnionKnight]

Are we talking about 500 in one sitting or over the course of his life? Because at 20 cigarettes a pack, 500 isn't a whole lot.

[@efrenarevalo2025]

This game looks more like a modern AAA game than actual modern AAA games.

[@gbrodie49]

Fox Engine was a beast. Shame Konami ditched it and stopped making games for years.

[@ЯрославНаймушин]

Funny that this game is running on hardware from 2005( xbox360)

[@Zomboid67]

Konami is going to be woke I can sense , after making that boring BS death stranding game , and dumping MGS & MGR I have no hope in Konami Edit : you guys don't know what woke actually means 🤡 , it doesn't mean any game having gay / bi characters means woke , get your terminology better

[@ЯрославНаймушин]

@Zomboid67 ds isnt k

[@Zomboid67]

@@ЯрославНаймушин what ? ,

[@leperface]

I love that it's 2025 and we're all still fascinated by metal gear.

[@morganhudders1412]

Look. I've been playing metal gear since playstation 1. And I'm still finding new stuff out about it in 2025! It's such a masterpiece. Best game series ever.

[@hermaphrobear]

Played Mg1 + 2 and felt like doing another complete playthrouth of mgsV. It's probably my favorite game of all time. 3rd best mgs game but my no.1 game.

[@PythonSelkan]

Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays to all our viewers! 🥳🎄 After months of hard work, our long-awaited Major Analysis is finally here - featuring the return of one of the most popular theories for METAL GEAR SOLID V - Gray Fox is Venom Snake 🦊 If you enjoy watching our videos, please consider supporting us on patreon.com/pythonselkan - or by a One-time Donation via Paypal www.paypal.me/pythonselkan Thanks for the support & we hope you enjoy it! 🙂 - Python & Selkan

[@Luca_Talis]

Merry Christmas PS! 🎉🥳

[@Voidyer]

Marry Christmas

[@mtb2223]

Please turn on Brazilian Portuguese dubbing

[@levihillman917]

! Kept us waiting huh ?

[@levihillman917]

Merry Christmas

[@satanamogila9251]

Today I'm partying like it's 2014 again. Thanks, PythonSelkan

[@SilverWolf3862]

my 2 cents is that the ocelot part where he talks about the hallucinations happened, but not there in paz's room, the player is transposing the event happened in another location it's very plausible for someone with multiple personalities to even confuse time itself, losing track of it, which makes sense since we literally pass the time smoking an electric cigar for hours on end without even moving

[@dermesserschmied2997]

just like imaginary paz who thinks its still 1974

[@Tonyxkx]

Exactly. Especially the cigar part,remember that nothing is a coincidence with Kojima (yes i know the problems with konami and MGSV but you get what i mean.

[@N8-Feds]

bros weed so good he slumped for days

[@DarkDyllon]

the funny thing is, Venom is tripping balls whenever you enter that room specifically. You can set a marker when you're inside that room, if you do that and leave to go to that market (without the door) you get to a platform with a door and a peace symbol next to it. meaning that Venom has been tripping balls the entire time the Paz hallucination was going on, can you imagine if a soldier walks by and sees their boss just foaming from their mouth and randomly yelling "NO!" or talking to Ocelot/Kaz like they're there in the flesh with him?

[@ArthurProduck]

"lol no way this is real" *Remembers the Gray Fox skin that always felt out of place in mgsv* "Oh shit..."

[@stephen8342]

Don’t forget the raiden missions in ground zeros. Kind of weird to randomly have a cyborg mission involving body snatchers

[@adsk1y_dro41la7]

Dude there is literally raiden’s skin in game, the timeline doesnt match. This video is totally wrong

[@stephen8342]

@ skins are not canon but can be hints at themes

[@PythonSelkan]

​@@adsk1y_dro41la7​​Raiden's skin has its helmet closed. The Gray Fox skin has its helmet open and purposely shows Snake's face instead, very much like how Venom (Fox) has Snake's face in his swapped identity 🤷‍♂️ Also regarding your statement that the timeline doesn't match, I kindly ask you to provide any substance to your argument. Happy to discuss 🙂

[@AxiA]

First off, thank you for making 1.5 hours of metal gear content. I gotta say, everything makes sense… the parallelism between gray fox and raiden is there, and everything adds up. The theory of big boss of and gray fox actively switching faces with each other is also super fascinating and I think it’s right, and it would have been fun to see This theory backed up by a metal gear game that explores better those early games . It makes so much sense and it’s not far fetched at all. Thank you for finding how venom and gray fox could co-exist during those events, makes sense. Now I have 2 wishes as a metal gear fan: 1 - Kojima watches this video and confirms this theory, would be awesome for all fans to find closure. It’s been an amazing journey to fantasize and theorize what kojima had in mind all along , but now we need answers. 2- Konami makes a game about the story of metal gear 1 and 2. And they hire you guys to make sure to retain the kojima style of cut scenes and editing without Kojima being there and to make sure they make something that blends well with Kojima’s vision and story without adding retcons. Honestly you guys would deserve this. You studied metal gear more than anyone and you would absolutely be a terrific asset in the team of an hypothetical MGS game without Kojima at the helm. Thanks for doing what you do! Love you guys

[@augustopaixao8911]

I've thought about it. Konami should hire them to make a sequel to MGs V. No one else knows this series as well as they do.

[@JJ_Jack_Gittes]

Beautiful comment 😻

[@XtremeSuperJason]

100% agreed. They have earned it.

[@BrianMartinez-z8q]

They need a remake of MG1 and MG2 so badly! I was introduced to MGS and never knew about the original prequels until after part 3! I need to play it and it needs a Remake style like MGS3!

[@ciromartinez9115]

What he said

[@ShadowZabre]

The problem with Timeline issues, is that Fox was the one who found Naomi, and was the highest ranking member of FOXHOUND, which Big Boss started. If V woke up in 1984, and Naomi was picked up by her Adoptive Brother Sometime in the 1980s, if Fox was V, then Fox needed to either be not-comatose to pick up his sister, or gave up the title of Big Boss Shortly after Phantom Pain, got surgery to un Big-Bossify himself, in order to get Naomi. Also as the Timeline does match up for everyone but V to the real world, The Rhodesian Bush War, the Civil War in which Naomi's Parents died by Frank Jaeger's Hands, was between 1964 and 1979. Naomi is supposed to be in her 30s in MGS and 40s in MGS4, meaning she'd be born mid 1970s. But this is a Moot point, as the MGS4 TImeline lists Naomi's parents as murdered by Frank Jaeger in 1979, 4 years into the Coma, and 5 years before the reawakening. Then, the MGS4 Database, agrees with the Codec call in MG2 Solid Snake, that the Big Boss has a Missing Right Arm, Right Eye and Feet that were replaced with Cybernetics. but in MGS4 itself, When Big Boss stops Old Snake from ending the Foxdie Threat, he has None of the Cybernetics. Now if he had grafted Solidus' arms and Legs that answers it, but I think there's a different error here. Also... The Fox is V theory breaks down even further. Snake in MGS4 states he trained CQC with Big Boss, and in MGS1 he says that Fox helped him alot in FOXHOUND. The Reason Fox goes back to Big Boss is because Unlike NATO who bombed Outer Heaven to ash, Big Boss came back and dug out Frank and all his surviving Soldiers. It's the same reason that Madnar defected to Big Boss's side too. Before Big Boss came out of the wood work to save who he could, he was the LEADER of FOXHOUND until 1972, coming back to lead in 1992, until 1995 when he sent Rookie Solid Snake to infiltrate Outer Heaven. Now, if the Shadow Moses Incident could teach us anything. The Leader of FOXHOUND Operations would be in a Command Ship located -Near- the Operation Zone (Roy, Naomi and Mei Ling were all on the Vessel that launched Snake to Shadow Moses.) This means that The Real Big Boss was likely near by before he snuck out, letting his double, who was leading the operation while he was grooming FOXHOUND to fail, take the fall by accident. He arrived too late, saving everyone from the bombed out craters, taking them to Zanzibarland. All of this set up to ask this: If Fox was V, then who was leading Outer Heaven while both Big Boss and Gray Fox were training Snake, during the short 3 years prior to the Outer Heaven Uprising? The Dr. Clark death time changing is something that is very easily explained by the story itself. Not only has Naomi lied to get into her position, lied to get her FoxDIE into Solid Snake, and lied to literally everyone she can in MGS4 so she could kill herself with Vamp, so she's already an unreliable narrator. But if her timeline is "Accepted Truth," the faked Death of Dr. Clark can certainly be attributed to the Patriots hiding her. Her actual death, with escape by Fox, being the same year as the Shadow Moses Incident makes way more sense, as what was Fox doing in those two years? You know, the man who was driven insane by the drugs and the pain into causing huge body counts pretty much everywhere he goes? The Passport issue is.... Childish? "The Fake Passport has an incorrect date on it!" Of COURSE it does. That's how FAKES work. And why would they not use a Date Stamp that is during the Coma, causing the people looking at his FAKE PASSPORT to not look at him twice, because the dates don't match up to someone who was Comatose during that time. At that point in time, His Fake Passport was a collaborative Effort of Mr. Quintuple Agent Revolver Adamska Shalasaska Ocelot, Mr I haven't told a single goddamn truth Master Kaz Kazuhiro Miller, and the creator of Cipher Mr. Null Zero... Who here actually believed -any- information that was listed on it? If so, I got a special oil here that will make you immortal. One vial only, enough for one person, price is $500,000 USD.

[@JuanGil221]

​Agreed! ​@@emmanuelnava9690

[@yesterdaysjam2405]

This comment is the Kojima-cut scene of comments

[@PythonSelkan]

As explained in the video, Naomi says she was found in the 1980's, not 1979. MGSV raises numerous questions on Venom's identity, and the coma itself... We don't know what happened before 1984, or after TPP, and that would still fall under the 1980's. The Big Boss cybernetics part is obviously explained by the Real Big Boss not being the one who fell in Outer Heaven, hence why he'd never have those cybernetics in MGS4. If the rumor Kasler mentioned was true, Venom would have been the one reawakened by Madnar and the one with those cybernetics, hence why Venom would be alive after Outer Heaven, shifting back to his identity as Fox afer those events. Frank was never involved in the Outer Heaven bombings, he disappeared soon after Snake rescued him, as explained in the video. I'm afraid you're mistaken about Snake being trained by both Big Boss and Frank before Outer Heaven. Snake meets Fox for the first time during the Outer Heaven incident. "I first met him on the battlefield. He was being held a prisoner of Outer Heaven, but he didn't look like a prisoner to me." With regards to Dr. Clark's death... Agreed, Fox killing her in 2005 (same year as Shadow Moses) would make more sense plot-wise, and yes Naomi could have lied (as we said in the video), but that is based on assumption, not confirmation, and the question we should all be asking is why did they actually change that lore for MGSV? The passport was never said to be fake. It's supposed to represent Venom's passport, hence our argument of either the passport being falsified, or that all is not as it seems. A fake passport doesn't only come with a fake stamp, it would have everything fake, including birth place, DOB, and identity.

[@VastSine6]

Gotta say, you're good at discrediting stuff and stopping discussion, "hey if you believed any of this u dumb" basically.

[@Scoopsdepoop]

​@@VastSine6that's a good attitude to have before believing nonsense

[@PcCAvioN]

Kojima: releases an unfinished game full of plot holes Metal gear fans:

[@uncleethan7488]

Wasn’t entirely his fault nor am I saying parts were not his fault

[@DJG37S]

It wasn’t his fault. Konami forced kojima to release the game early and cut all of the funding for and the console video game world. Why do you think he left and formed his own company.

[@Unethical.FandubsGames]

@@uncleethan7488 Not entirely. No. Just mostly. If we're assigning blame. He takes nearly all of it. Because let's face it. Kojima had been getting away with acid trips for decades and every time they let him "do his own thing" he would put out something that has everyone going "What the heck, Kojima-san?" So let's not pretend that Kojima isn't to blame.

[@zephyr8072]

@@DJG37S And then he released Death Stranding. An unfinished game full of plot holes.

[@rdx9322]

I mean... What plotholes?

[@wolfytennobr8485]

I've waited 9 years for this answer.

[@ricksanches4523]

Im afraid its been 9 years

[@frankjaeger393]

Me too.

[@jegannaathk1705]

Gray Fox!!!

[@TheVagabondGadite]

I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS PAIN

[@GhostTraindude]

Why? Evryone wo know the Story of Metal Gear 1 and 2 knows that Fox cant be Venom Snake.

[@connorburrus6069]

No he’s not. Venom plays big boss in metal gear 1 and gets killed. Gray fox is there as a double agent. Venom at this time would be the appearing as the leader of outerhaven big boss. They spent all those resources on cosmetic surgery in mgsv to make venom look like big boss then 20-30 years later in the 90s he now has a different face and looks 30 years younger?

[@dcmc83]

I mean its really not that complicated considering the ending for mgsv is setting up for metal gear 1. Good theory in all that but no

[@sunsmashmaciej7682]

Yeah I started this video to watch it for fun but I can't look past this glaring hole in the theory...

[@thoraxtheimpalor1345]

Everyone over looks the msx games that released only in Japan, and remade on some versions of metal gear 3 snake eater in the extras section

[@netoantonio]

thank you

[@Denkersis]

​@@thoraxtheimpalor1345 Re-released, not remade

[@ezzahhh]

YongYea honestly deserves to give an apology for all the stuff he said about you guys and your theory in the lead up to MGSV, you nailed it so much and he just quietly moved on after the game came out and your theories turned out to be accurate.

[@dedstring]

Yong died for me after them making him Kiryu for Gaiden. Bros just a brainrottuber

[@moshymosh]

Wait, wtf did YongYea say about Python?

[@dedstring]

​@@moshymosh think years ago yong called this channel out saying it was spewing nonsense. This was probably over a decade ago so the details are a bit fuzzy

[@pixytorres7117]

If Venom was Gray Fox don't you think Kojima wouldn't already mentioned it??? He explain the ending of MGSV in details in interviews. Automatically killing the Gray Fox theory.

[@PythonSelkan]

​@@xenoplayz4524If you watched the video, then you'd know MGSV doesn't disprove this theory at all. If you're so convinced you're playing as a medic, why is he still shown as caucasian when you create your avatar in a dark skin tone? Yong's words were he was 110% sure Venom was Big Boss before release. He was wrong. We analyzed from the trailers that he might have been a body double. This was confirmed. On the other hand, this video proves the Gray Fox theory is far from debunked. When it is, then he'd be half right on Venom not being Gray Fox.

[@Fryinryan132]

“A detour on his way to hell” a long detour. Becoming a tool to be used to control, manipulate, and kill. I can’t help but think of the line “I’m already a demon”

[@augustopaixao8911]

Only you guys can make me watch 1h30 of a game that, like the big boss himself, refuses to die.

[@jonathanjones408]

Merry Christmas to the real Big Boss and Venom Snake.

[@Myphton]

I'm Big Boss. And you are too. Carry that with you wherever you go.

[@DarkPrince702]

It's taken 5 days of watching and rewatching this analysis and I can tell you right now that my mind is utterly and completely blown. Wow. The theory is correct, I mean how could it not be, it's the only thing that neatly fits and makes sense. A study of the characters is essential and follow the breadcrumbs that Kojima left. I'm still in awe. Venom even looks like null with same grey hair. I couldn't really understand the parallels between big boss and skullface but I definitely can between Venom and Skullface. Venom didn't die after the explosion just like skull face then lost his human identity. Incredible guys! Thank you. I thought I was a die hard MGS fan but this takes it levels I would not have imagined possible. Kudos to you Brothers.

[@abyss9316]

In my opinion Venom snakes combat ability is what sets him apart As most likely Being gray fox Because for anybody else in the metal gear solid universe Aside for big boss and his sons and ocelot Gray fox is the only Other character on par with them in terms of combat ability Hence why Venom snake was so successful in the 80s IMO

[@bulletbrotherstactical7135]

Crazy that Eli is the one to kill Venom in the end if this is true.

[@todd3143]

i mean i really hope it's true because that is so poetic. maybe chapters 52 onwards would have teased it

[@stephen8342]

There is no if, it’s obviously true

[@Giornio.b]

@@stephen8342it’s bullshit and you’re mentally inept if you believe it

[@_GeneralMechanics_]

This was a fascinating take I hadn't thought about. I always figured the reason Gray Fox wasn't in The Phantom Pain was because he was Big Boss' most loyal comrade. Big Boss and Ocelot kept him out of it because he wasn't involved with the Ground Zeroes incident and his loyalty was never in doubt, unlike Miller and Huey.

[@akirayama1534]

As per usual, this channel has some of the highest production quality of any channel on KZbin. So well written, researched and presented. Please never stop covering MGS and Kojima - you’re a major part of the fun!!!

[@blvdes]

YOOOO perfect content for being home alone on Christmas

[@TomCatPlus]

"Don't Worry If I do this, 🙈, it won't matter"

[@matalik]

I watched the first video from 11 years earlier, not very convinced, but the threads in this full breakdown are VERY convincing! Thank you for all the work you put into this video! I enjoyed it thoroughly, and love this theory!

[@Chris-zk4fz]

Venom snake is definitely the most enigmatic character ever in video game history.

[@B4NDIT_12]

My money is for G-MAN

[@danylol772]

Not by a long shot.

[@froderickalabaster]

i think duke from resident evil village is a more mysterious character

[@tequila_tibbs7938]

Hahahha the most “mute” maybe, and the least charismatic

[@chewy99.]

The snatcher project carried out by Dr.Madnar to save and restore venom snake after the outer heaven incident was also detailed in the mgs4 lore book. I remember that from another of your old videos. This theory really ties many loose threads like that together.

[@seangeary7100]

See I thought this was a reference to Kojima's old game, Snatcher, where people are being replaced by robots. It still doesn't make sense that Grey Fox and Venom are the same person. They may be similar, but not the same.

[@lightbringer_jeimuzu]

Going back and seeing how on point you guys were from the early E3 trailers for the only entry series I ever really truly struggled with is so impressive. You're pretty good 😉 Ive been blasting forward from your earliest videos and i wanted to say im glad you started narrating because i can put this on in the background now. What an accomplishment, guys. Well done. Im convinced.

[@dayvsonmacel2]

Truly an amazing video for those who love to speculate. It Definitelly deserves more views. Fantastic job guys.

[@odiumgeneris729]

This series about grey fox being venom snake actually help me enjoy the phantom pain more than I would have if I had not seen it. I just added it to my headcanon, and it is better than what was presented.

[@odiumgeneris729]

Funny story. When I started the game and typed in my name, actually typed in "Gray fox". Completely forgetting that I did it. So when the picture is opened and that name is revealed at the end, I was blown away. Then I just started laughing at my own dumb azz! LOL!

[@Unethical.FandubsGames]

Too bad it actually doesn't make sense as far as theories go but it's fun to imagine.

[@PanikDoctor]

Merry christmas Python and Selkan!

[@tcholloventura]

I really believe that all of this is the hidden truth that Kojima buried in several layers of misinformation. I believe that the name Frank is another literary reference, this time to Frankenstein (another one to add to 1984 & Moby Dick). I believe that the "Head swap" doctor's theories have something to do with all of this. I think that in this case, Frank is Frankenstein (from Fox), where more than one soldier served as the composition of his identity(I don't think they have to use bodies to do that, only the memories). The young man who appears in the beta image in Rhodesia with the dog may be one of the soldiers and the doctor another one. By creating a third identity and personality, the two layers below would make it much more difficult for Frank (whoever he was) to discover who he really was "in the first place". As a result, personalities and memories function as layers of protection. When one "layer" is broken, the other comes into "action" until they can reprogram Venom (as many times as necessary, matryoska doll style). In the end, I really hope that we can still see Kojima's return and the saga being put back on track and maybe with that, we can discover the intention of this whole "tangle". The video was wonderful as always! Merry Christmas PythonSelkan! May 2025 give us more games, videos and amazing theories! Much love from Brazil! =D

[@JJ_Jack_Gittes]

This is a great comment❗

[@GuestPlayer39147]

Massive drop! Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a happy new year PythonSelkan!

[@samuelantoniocastillomeza5034]

I don't think for a second that Grey Fox and Venom Snake are the same, but they are very similar people in both becoming tools for Big Boss, as people with a past that no longer exists and in a perpetual war until their end.

[@chewy99.]

Did you watch the whole video yet? Do you just not like the idea, or is there a certain reason you can’t think that they are one?

[@samuelantoniocastillomeza5034]

@chewy99. I commented after watching the whole thing and I remain unconvinced. I don't see how Fox could be Venom Snake. Even officially, the guide in the Master Collection states that Venom Snake died in Outer Heaven.

[@chewy99.]

@@samuelantoniocastillomeza5034 Venom snake did die in outer heaven, that persona would never occur again after that day. It’s confirmed in multiple sources that Dr.Madnar in the snatcher project saved big boss after the original metal gear and replaced many parts of his body. Thus, venom was killed, and grey Fox was saved. All of this is said in the video.

[@samuelantoniocastillomeza5034]

@@chewy99. I rewatched to get what you say and, no. Comes across as a retcon for me. I think some parts can be worked into the lore but others seem like oversights for me. I think Fox and Venom are totally different people in different bodies and different background.

[@RyTheRedTRex]

​@xenoplayz4524 I thought the video suggested that Fox could've been working with Big Boss for those 9 years, and the brainwashing and surgeries took place over a much shorter time. The hospital, awakening, and memories of GZ could all be part of the brainwashing

[@JustSomeGuyIDontKnow]

15:15 “Getting used to it?” -Ocelot This brings a new irony to when Grey Fox cut off Ocelot’s arm. Venom knew Ocelot would get used to it haha Awesome video, thanks man!!

[@8bitorbust-w3n]

HA! That never crossed my mind.

[@arthurvg2217]

Maaan

[@codyduignan4266]

No

[@TRANE198821]

Punished "Venom" Snake, also known as Big Boss, Ahab, V, or Big Boss' phantom, was a combat medic for Militaires Sans Frontières (MSF), who would later become the mercenary commander of Diamond Dogs and Outer Heaven as one of Big Boss' most trusted lieutenants.

[@brandanwoods9341]

Aka gray fox aka fox!!

[@TheGameplayer641]

“Can’t believe we ever bought that cover story…”

[@TRANE198821]

@@brandanwoods9341 The young Frank Jaeger met Naked Snake for the second time in Mozambique in 1966; The two met in Vietnam, where Naked Snake helped Jaeger escape from a labor camp. Later in Mozambique, he was tortured by RENAMO soldiers and almost lost his nose and ears had Snake not gotten there in time to save him.

[@RicardoMenson]

"Militaires Sans Frontières" you say? Venom snake is sans from undertale confirmed.

[@lokouba]

1:16:49 wait, WHAT??? This is INSANE

[@mattl8774]

I forgot that big boss can't smell anything. Good catch!

[@TheKiddingStar]

My mind is blown... This makes so much sense and makes MGSV actually FEEL more intentional than bumbling and aimless! What geniuses the team that writes these games are!

[@professionalbodger]

PythonSelkan releases a new vid...now its xmas!! Truly awe inspiring guys!!

[@professionalbodger]

I think i could be posisble that venoms mind could have been altered by hypnogia to believe he is gray fox, to gain the trust of solid snake. But it didnt quite work ot hence all the spasm he has in the game, perhaps memories clashing etc due to venoms orginal head injury. If a little of the big boss side came out, he would have wanted to settle scores with Eli hence taking him on

[@blitzes3177]

You know this theory is good because of how much people hate it. Reminds me of how the west hated Raiden, but then ten years later were like “oh I love Raiden!” Hell even the twist you don’t play as Big Boss in V ruffled a lot of feathers. The single most convincing piece of evidence to me is the fact that Gray Fox’s face in Ground Zeroes is replaced with Snake’s. That is CLEARLY an intentional decision to make a connection between Fox and Snake. If you don’t believe this theory, you would need to explain why they chose to replace his face, rather than just hide it like they did with Raiden. Some more evidence I would like to suggest is Venom Snake’s reflex mode. The Perfect Soldier Program enhanced Null’s reflexes, and coincidentally Venom Snake has a reflex mode that triggers when he is seen, and when he needs to preform a melee counter. As you displayed in this video, Venom Snake’s knife/sword work against the Skulls is incredible, it’s nothing like Big Boss has displayed before.

[@PythonSelkan]

👏👏👏

[@blitzes3177]

@@PythonSelkan It's so strange, MGS V tells you is "there are no facts, only interpretations" and they still tell you "actually, your interpretation is wrong, because of the facts".

[@JD-mz1rl]

Gray Fox is in ground zeroes?

[@blitzes3177]

@@JD-mz1rl 57:21

[@Melinmingle]

Its not the same man

[@TheGhostFLA]

This honestly blew my mind. You did such a great job with this video. Please make more!

[@matymatthias]

As a person who lives in south africa and who was born in 2003...i feel super stoked.

[@KbutY]

This video fully encompasses why i continue to come back to this game series. Great work to you and your team. Made a believer out of me.

[@mikhail_roberts]

The most compelling evidence is the eye, the "hand to hand is the basis of all combat" bit, and the fact that VSnake was easily the most violent of all the Snakes. Additionally, the amount of cybernetics he has received, as well as his identity issues, and essentially being brought back from the dead multiple times makes the argument almost air tight.

[@alialmuhanna4938]

I remember stumbling on your Frank Jaeger theory 10 years ago, and it blew my mind. And ever since I’ve become convinced that it was true; Venom being Frank adds another layer of tragedy to his character; that even the man who saved him from San Hieronymo was manipulating Frank for his own ends. And frankly (no pun intended) a a game where Gray Fox is the protagonist is so fitting; why have a Ninja uniform that increases speed if not in reference to Frank ? I’m looking forward to a proper Frank game, and no, Rising doesn’t count. Thanks guys.

[@tankboi8249]

Also didn’t fox have his nose and ears cut off and stuff? Wasn’t he like already fucked up? A perfect candidate for cosmetic surgery and brainwashing

[@PythonSelkan]

Indeed he was 🙂 59:00

[@DeanCalaway]

You're telling me in 1987 Kojima wrote a story so Gray Fox would be Big Boss's body double and... no, just no, this is Star Wars level of historical revisionism, as if George Lucas totally planned the 2 trilogies before he started, no he didn't, the first one didn't originally had a number the idea to make sequels and prequels came from the unexpected success of the original movie. Kojima himself was done after MGS2, he only did MGS3 because they twisted his arm and again with MGS4 which he made as the ultimate final ending to the series, when MGSV started pre production he wasn't even involved with the game, only coming on later and then spending money from that project to make the Silent Hills demo without the approval of anyone that owns the company.

[@Cool_Adam]

Womp womp

[@djirukashi3992]

Just cause you can't imagine it happening when all of the details are there, doesn't mean it isn't lol. You're also not familiar with Japanese originated games. Go look up a game called Kindom Hearts, then come back here and say " there's no way"

[@DeanCalaway]

@djirukashi3992 bless your heart.

[@DomagojStivic]

this is actually like 96% true, iv spoke with some people who worked on the game when we were drunk on a seminar.

[@marcellolombardi5821]

This video hits me like a new mgs game. Thank you, correct or not, this is an amazing work!

[@shugazi1]

Happy holidays everyone, may MGS lives on forever

[@vee-bee-a]

May our Metal Gears stay solid forever..? 💀

[@ToyLatrine]

I fuckin love that this is still going.

[@diogobarros2400]

this was the best thing i've seen in 20 years as a MGS fan. it's still my favorite gaming series ever and it will always be, and this theory just made it so much better ! thank you for your dedication @PythonSelkan

[@stevenmazey3976]

Shocks me that konami hasn’t remade MG1 and MG2 to give us the Nintendo games remade for next gen consoles. That would give us closure.

[@snakezero3320]

Agreed. This is an interesting piece for thought.

[@raulvieira689]

Man... youre like Venom Kojima at this point. You are capable to make a new MGS game better then anyone in Konami team.

[@themissingpeace7956]

I've always thought that Venom Snake was Gray Fox from the start.

[@hylianro]

No you didn't

[@themissingpeace7956]

@ Nuh uh! 🤡

[@warpath375__]

Yeah, the only thing that was off was the timeline.

[@FTWSamFisher]

I think this is the most likely explanation for Venom Snake and how he ties to the rest of MGS.

[@Jesse-y1q]

I love this Gray Fox theory. It would be perfect for the Metal Gear saga. In phantom pain, Venom Snakes capabilities mirror Solid Snakes capabilities. From killing many people to taking down an actual Metal Gear. There are only so many people that can take down a Metal Gear; Big Boss, Boss, Solid Snake, Liquid Snake, Solidus Snake, and someone unrelated... Gray Fox. Venom Snake has to be Gray Fox. If Venom Snake isnt Gray Fox or anyone worthy for that matter, that takes away from the Metal Gear Saga. There are only so many that can take down a Metal Gear. No random, ordinary person can do that, for one. Two, its evident Venom snake isn't related to Big Boss nor was he part of the Les Enfant Terribles Project. The only person capable of taking down a Metal Gear and is not related to Big Boss is... Gray Fox.

[@tcruz673]

This is a very compelling theory; I believe you've addressed all of my concerns and, as far as I can tell, I can't refute the validity of your argument.

[@joshtheryuk]

I can't believe i never noticed the Gray Fox skin has got Snake face instead of Frank 😅

[@kamalbouali6319]

One like is not enough ! Asked some friends to like also ! What a great analysis ! Thank you for you constant efforts. You are adding value to this incredible franchise. 👍❤️

[@Ragucci25]

Sup Malta Brothers, great work I love the theory crafting and the deep in depth analysis of details I knew, didn't know and forgot. I don't understand or appreciate the hate you guys get especially by other large content creators in the MGS community.

[@Mrsabillon]

This is nuts, I got no words, this is amazing, great job guys

[@HARDHITTER3707]

Im always skeptical when you do these and you continue to blow my mind every single time lmao

[@erictacti6908]

What a great gift! I've been waiting for this video for months, and of course, you guys didn't disappoint! Merry Christmas to you, and all of your fans!

[@myenemysenemy1043]

Shoutout at 2:45

[@Segeric]

1.5 hours of MGS content theories? What a great christmas present! Loved your stuff for years.

[@pauloeduardooliveiradaroch8001]

Congrats for the video guys! simple incredible! the best thing about MGS from years!

[@happenstance7530]

Bravo, I love excellent demonstrations of critical thinking and thought experiments based on available facts and information. The one thing I'm worried about if the series continues is that Kojima won't be involved so the attention to detail and holding to the complexities of the existing lore that he brought to the projects will be missing in future iterations of the story.

[@slightlybiggerboss7442]

Finally getting around to watching this beast of a video. I saw the controversy on X going against yall, and I just want to say that your passion for these games makes lots of people smile. Thanks for the videos!

[@PythonSelkan]

Many thanks for the kind comment! Don't worry about the controversy on X, they're the very same group of people that believed Venom was Big Boss, and tried making fun of our content until they all disappeared when the game released. They keep dissing our Gray Fox theory yet they're too afraid to reply back, probably because they don't know the lore as much as they wish they do. - P&S

[@InfiniteAmmo9]

Great Analysis ❤ . I Appreciate Your Effort , The Way You Present And Edit Your Content Is Incredible , however , i hope this is not the last MGS Video You Make . Good Luck ✋.

[@PythonSelkan]

Many thanks for the kind comment! 🙏 - P&S

[@InfiniteAmmo9]

@@PythonSelkan ❤

[@pedroc3948]

MGSV story was "botched" on purpose to get back at Konami. "You want to keep the game for yourselves? Ok. let's see what you can do with it after this". That's my theory.

[@Shmandalf]

The true meta play

[@zephyr8072]

My theory is Kojima fanboys will justify anything to pretend their messiah is perfect.

[@Shmandalf]

@@zephyr8072 I thinks he's just as r3t4rded as you

[@pedroc3948]

@@zephyr8072 I agree. Lack of money and time is an excuse I won't buy. It doesn't take money to come up with a good story, just talent. Kojima is not a bad writer, I think we can all agree on that. So this had to be on purpose.

[@djirukashi3992]

​@@zephyr8072ah yes, the realist with no theory or thoughts of their own falling in line like the steeple hey are. No one's surprised by your weak Luke warm take

[@user-gi6hd5ol6f]

this makes too much sense. I remember when Phantom Pain first came out... I was literally malding over no Gray Fox reference, and I came to the same conclusion, he just HAS to be gray fox

[@Unethical.FandubsGames]

So... he has to be grey fox because... there is no reference to grey fox? That's really grasping at straws. I disliked that game as much as the next guy but let's not be pretending it's that deep.

[@user-gi6hd5ol6f]

@@Unethical.FandubsGames You realize I was talking retrospectively on a literal first play basis? What level of deep are you expecting from that?

[@jesterofknights4108]

ummmm the first time you complete the truth mission # 46, the mother base emblem codenames ("parts") you earn include the words: cyborg, ninja, and gray. Kind of on the nose.

[@ericb.1384]

I have been watching since before MGSV's launch. You guys convinved me that Venom was a body double before the game came out.

[@DasSalty]

Fantastic video!

[@FreyiliusGaming]

Incredible work, a must see for any MGS die-hard fan.

[@MmeJesuiscool]

YEEEEEEES, great Christmas present, thanks guys 🎁🎄

[@Radignostic]

no joke this is THE metal gear lore video. none other matters after this revelation. a neat bow to tie the whole saga into one package...

[@Mezxxii]

OMG. As a long time MGS fan... I love this so much

[@rolobart4874]

Like you Python, I've been a fan of metal gear for 30+ yrs. Absolutely love the theory, think it adds a massive twist. Could the person watching venom be Big Boss?! Time will tell. It always does. Just hope they dont mess with the lore. It has happened alot recently with so many franchises, to their detriment. Keep up the great content!!Thankyou for the video!!🐍

[@moonmushi]

This theory is truly awesome! Amazing work in this all around, thank you for that fun roller coaster ride! I seriously hope its all true!

[@tommygun6866]

Waited for months, wasn't disappointed! Amazing analysis. Hopefully this isn't the end of MGS analysis type videos. Maybe you guys could do a video, where you speculate about the next MGS game?

[@standcontractdelta8120]

There is a next mgs game? If there is I would like to know what big boss is up to during the 9 year coma and during phantom pain.

[@itsdrplacebo4066]

I love the theory, and I can see how it's possible that Venom is Gray Fox... But my only question is then; If Grey Fox is Venom, and supporting Big Boss during the time of MG1 and MG2, then why is Gray Fox helping Solid Snake at the end of MGS1?

[@PythonSelkan]

Thanks for the feedback! 🙂 Gray Fox was loyal to Big Boss until the end, but he also helped Snake not just in MGS1, but even during MG2: SS (despite being enemies). He was basically performing a double agent role, after all, Miller did say he'd help the phantom and his sons take revenge on Big Boss, so Fox being the phantom (Venom), would explain why.

[@russellanthony568]

This was amazing. I had heard about this channel through reddit, and this did not disappoint. I really like the theory, and it's a shame that we may never see a proven answer. A future where Kojima makes a new MGS game would be a bright one.

[@reagar]

MASTERFUL WORK, BOTH OF YOU!!!

[@garrettsmith4034]

I've always wanted this to be a thing.

[@ubx9563]

So much to consider! This video was amazing!

[@PythonSelkan]

Thank you so much! 🙏 - P&S

[@Hypnotikshiva]

Merry Christmas Brothers! 🎄

[@evilskull093]

yea the only thing that santa couldn't give me but PythonSelkan could a metal gear solid video from the legend himself lol have a nice holiday and happy new year

[@Deafteen_s]

Thank you for making all these amazing vids, Kojima is definitely watching and smiling with every uncovered detail

[@BluLuigiSpy-79]

Now I only have few questions left for Metal Gear series, like: how many things in the MSX Metal Gear games influenced the games after, what happened to Holly White from Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, why has the left hand been lost four different times (Venom, Gray Fox, Raiden, Raiden again), what did Solidus say at the end of MGS2, did Black Ninja have any cyborg parts, did Solids originally blonde hair get retconned, and why PythonSelken keeps making amazing metal Gear content every time. Thank you PythonSelken for making amazing videos.

[@kablehunter060]

The first time I saw the white right eye the first time I played the game, I already believed that the story is about the making of Grey Fox. Until the end where the body double was revealed, it confirmed to me that we were Grey Fox, which makes it more cooler.

[@StickyCactus]

Man I love you guys soo much, I loved watching all your videos before, during, and post game release. I swear you guys are on point on every bit. There is too many coincidences. I really wish it just was grey fox

[@ItalianJoe83]

The simple fact that this video analysis focused on Punished "Venom" Snake's true identity mistery in Metal Gear Solid V The Phantom Pain doesn't make any mention of Ricardo "Chico" Valenciano Libre - Young volunteer in Snake's private army 8:58 once may also cause some "conflicts" of massive magnitude with the viewer's "internal timeline" "for a special reason."

[@evilnoey4873]

Get out.

[@SavedSnake]

Seriously get out.

[@JJ_Jack_Gittes]

Put some respect on ItalianJoe's name, you weirdos❗

[@satanamogila9251]

Get back to the hole (r/neverbgameover) that you crawled from

[@ItalianJoe83]

@Robitrium-B r/AHideoKojimaRuse

[@mattgoldsworthy3278]

Grey Fox is one of my all time favorite characters, he's just so fucking cool man. When I was thirteen I remember watching the scene where he cuts off Ocelot's arm and the freaks out... His scream freaked the shit out of me. To this day that scream brings tears to my eyes. Then after you fight him in hand to hand combat and he starts smashing his head on the floor saying 'I'm loosing myself'... Such a flipped out scene man. There was so much mystery surrounding that character. I always wished they'd make a game purely about him. Which I guess they did! But I mean in his 'current' state... You know, with the exoskeleton... Maybe like when he first get's equipped with it or something. Awesome video!! Merry Christmas!

[@jacquayblandjr.551]

We will only truly know once we get Metal Gear 1 and Metal Gear 2 remakes. Honestly the fact that we have been discussing this for the past 10 years is truly remarkable. I remember when Yong and PythonSelkan had their spat over this theory. This video really brings back some great memories of a time where we were all so hyped about MGSV. To those who try to discredit the theory, Kojima stated on the record that he always wanted to make a game with Grey Fox as the protagonist. Let’s all buy Delta off the shelves so we can show Konami that the appetite for MGS is stronger than ever. Hopefully we get some type of epilogue at the end of Delta hinting at what could be next.

[@Enzed_]

I'm not buying delta until I know it won't be a buggy mess.

[@dunesloth8440]

Grayfox got his name from the ashes he worn into battle in foxhound.

[@frostburn3736]

*_"All the heroes I know are either dead or in the prison... But this one has been used, abused and forgotten. Even be himself until the very end, when he finally woke up. By the one who cared."_*

[@seven2653]

Imagine if MGS V continued and explained how he would become Grey Fox, that would actually be an interesting story

[@Junior.Masnãoaquele]

Cara eu gosto muito disso, tem " fãs" que desmerecem as teorias mas eu acho que o que mantém uma obra atemporal é justamente essas contratações e teorias , por isso que a arte pode ter mais de 1000 anos e ainda se discute sobre ai chegamos nos vídeo game e alguns ditos " fãs" querem analisar a obra como se fosse um mero produto , eu nem concordo tanto com essa teoria mas eu admiro e gosto muito como vc pesquisa e fala com paixão sobre ela , continue assim Muito bom .

[@vigilantez9361]

I really like the idea of Grey Fox being Venom Snake. It makes a tragic story all the more tragic.

[@GENOMEFOX]

One thing that makes me believe Venom is Grey Fox is that Big Boss had his eye shot out so Venom having a eye at all and how both have a white eye its hard to pass up on that theory Its definitely a incredible theory imo and i would love a game maybe showing flash backs that connect the missing pieces maybe other characters having memory of what really happened Its just super exciting and im glad your channel is dedicated to this incredible franchise Cheers 🍻

[@tankboi8249]

I’ve always said this and this always made more sense to me