Q&A w/ Irene Lyon. OCD, ADD, the faux window, healing muscle tension, and more!

[@tarapollitt1929]

This has spoke to me so deeply, the OCD, the trauma, the movement the somatics. Thank you

[@carolineoakshett8520]

A really wonderful talk, Irene. You cover a lot of ground and have given me a lot of new insights. Love the house analogy. I have immense admiration for both your work and the way you do it. You are life changing for many many people.

[@teamlyon3109]

Thanks for watching Caroline! So wonderful to hear it gave you a lot of new insights :) Nicole - Team Lyon

[@alexandrajoyce]

OCD can also be Pure-OCD, body hyper awareness & intrusive thoughts. It’s also a need for control, certainty and lack of trust in self.

[@yourenough3]

Thankful I found this channel. I'm up at 1am unable to sleep. I am learning so much. Pricless.

[@teamlyon3109]

So great that you're learning so much through Irene's content! It's great having you here. And I hope that some of what you learn also leads to some curiosity in your own healing! If you haven't already, be sure to check out the Healing Trauma Series - irenelyon.com/healing-trauma My suggestion is to take it in in stages. There's A LOT of great content there and it can be helpful to let both your mind and system process what's being shared :) Here's to more learning! Nicole - Team Lyon

[@bettywhite6672]

Irene, I just want to tell you I'm so thankful for you. You're so informative, so clear in how you present things and just amazing at what you do. I'm glad you went into doing this videos and teachings that we can sign up for (which I'm going to do soon) instead of doing individual practice. I think you're reaching so many more doing this. ❤️

[@timothybollenbaugh6111]

Team Lyon gets a Congressional Medal of Honor and a Purple Heart for successfully wading through this swamp in an hour and a half! I know it was awkward and difficult addressing a vast and deep subject for a diverse audience with varied experiences, but it is worth it, and I hope you know it!

[@nerudaad]

This was solid gold. Thank you ❤️!

[@smurfmama2020]

Wish I had known about somatic therapies when my daughter was little.. I didn't handle her rage very well at all, it ended up manifesting as her having pretty bad ocd. I didn't give her a stable foundation in her nervous system regulation at all. I was so reactive to her expressions of anger. But we can only learn when we learn..

[@teamlyon3109]

Hi, Nicole here from Team Lyon. Yes. We can only learn when we learn. And we can only do what we know how to do. It's so great that you are exploring this work - whether for you or for her. As it's never too late. And you might even find that by doing your own explorations that some of that may influence her. So great to have you here! If you're looking for a good starting point (other than all of Irene's videos!) I would suggest checking out the Healing Trauma Series - irenelyon.com/healing-trauma and/or the 7 Steps to De-Stress - irenelyon.com/7-steps-opt-in-IL Who knows. Maybe your daughter might be interested in the content too... Nicole

[@maryfrook3566]

@@teamlyon3109 do you recommend any resources for parents trying to help their 14 year old I know there is trauma and a lot of it

[@yootoob1001001]

Thank you so much for this video, Irene---very inspiring, great information, and gives me lots of hope in continuing to work on things for myself.

[@seanmclaren8829]

I so wish I had known this kind of information when I was young, combined with mindfulness meditation. Despite having learned a lot about health and spirituality throughout the years, one stayed locked up in a separated, underlying fearful state. I realize I've lived my whole life with ADD and that has resulted in a life of failed dreams and self-sabotage due to emotional dysregulation. Cleaning up my mess in my 50s is now a much bigger task.

[@IreneLyon]

Hi Sean McLaren, Jen here from Team Lyon. I hear you for sure. Grief can be part of the package when we find this work, especially when we're a bit further into life. And as we engage with the work, this part tends to fade a bit as the shifts and gifts grow.

[@earuption]

Yes! Restless leg and lots of muscle tension.

[@eunicestephen5929]

Hi Irene got your email today - re video book list. Thanks so much. I started with Body keeps the Score then Doidge's two books last year , followed by Peter Levine . This so helpful to direct my future reading as I spent quite a bit of time just trying to navigate Amazon and work out what to read next.

[@SavannahE1972]

What I hear you say (16.00 - 20.00) about the menopause, is that, with a Healthy nervous system, the chance to get symptoms is little. With a unhealthy nervous system it's more likely to get some symptoms. Do I understand this well? I have so many women around me that have severe menopause symptoms. It wouldn't be a surprise to me that their nervous system is not working optimal. I am almost 50 and are working on creating a healthy nervous system. I hope it will be in time 😉

[@IreneLyon]

Savannah - Mara here with Team Lyon. Yes, with a better regulated nervous system, the transition to menopause is smoother.

[@etienneviljoen6759]

Dr. Will Bulsiewicz practices gastroenterology. He gave me scientificly based dietary advice, which compliments Irene's teachings.

[@cynthiacapicchioni6622]

I am doing the Gupta program and was wondering what you think of the brqin retraining programs? Do they work for the overall mental health as I am working on these programs to help reset my brain most affected from childhood trauma and adulthood lyme cfs etc. The programs seem to help but are centered on physical trauma cycling!

[@ireen7626]

How does your program align with the latest news on training neuroplasticity like the Gupta Amygdala retraining? There are a multitude of trainings where you stop the chronic stressresponse (that has not bumped back to normal) by actually saying "stop" and completely rewire neural paths by doing something else or feeling something else.. it incorporates NLP, voice dialogue and empowerment. I was just wondering because it does retrain the primal brain and therefore the system.

[@tarapollitt1929]

I did this course for CFS!

[@ireen7626]

Could I please get a response from the Irene Lyon team on my question? That would be nice ;-)

[@another1bitesthedust1234]

Response please Team Lyon

[@sarahthatcher123]

You touched on it at the beginning of the video but I would really appreciate a much more in depth teaching about the brain being an end organ. Most people I know in the 'helping' professions both physical ( health) and counselling professions still teach and speak and 'treat' clients with the premise that our THOUGHTS are what creates the 'problems'. If we just 'think better more positive thoughts' then our body responds to our thoughts...if negative thoughts our bodies responds negatively if positive thoughts then our body responds positively ( health). One person who a lot of people look to as an 'expert' is Caroline Leaf and all of her talks and teaching on 'trauma' and mind body connection. This really frustrates me because I listen to you and it's 'different' ( I believe is the 'right' approach). But I think that what they are saying has some truth or merit ( maybe science) backing them but it's like there is truth and also something not quite right as well. This is where I would like a video where you could clarify where they are 'right' on track but then where/ how/ why they are 'off' in how they still believe our thoughts are 'so powerful' and that if we just change them then we can 'heal ourselves'. Just like what you say but my experience has been that I tried so hard to make that 'just think positive thoughts' work but it didn't help me at all. I actually think it just kept me stuck in unhealthy thinking...like what's wrong with me? Why isn't it working? I must not be doing it good enough etc. I ended up with stage 4 cancer anyways....I have been seeing a Somatic experiencing practioner twice a month for 3 years and I am finally starting to heal both mentally and physically. Symptoms that were lifelong chronic symptoms are finally starting to heal. It's completely changing my life. Thank you for all you do...it is changing lives!

[@teamlyon3109]

Hi Sarah Thatcher, Seth here from Team Lyon. I'll definitely share your suggestion with Irene, as that would make a good video! She does have another one that touches into this a bit more which I'll link below. To put it really simply - survival energy is more powerful than the neocortex. All the 'mind-over-matter' and 'cure yourself with positive thinking' techniques out there are teaching people with unresolved trauma to override their physiology by using the higher brain. Which we can do. For a time. But. Eventually the urgency of the survival energy WILL win and the mind and body will break down. That's one way to understand it. Another way to understand it is that the brain is thinking what it thinks because of the messages it is getting from the organs. This is literally true. There is a massive nerve highway between the gut and the brain and 80% of those nerve signals are afferent, meaning they travel from the gut TO the brain. Our gut and other organs are the first way we perceive the world and that information gets taken to the brain which then formulates thoughts and meanings. This is why when we only work with the mind we are really missing most of the picture, and this is why it is SO much more effective to learn to work with the organs and nervous system directly. Ultimately, we need to understand how to work with both the mind and the physiology in harmony, and Irene addresses that in this video I mentioned... kzbin.info/www/bejne/f6LSlGlpedZ-g5I

[@DA-gi6gs]

This is my question too! Your told it’s your thoughts! But it doesn’t sit right with me as it’s my biology I can’t think my way out of this. Great answer Seth .. would love to hear more!! 🙏

[@SavannahE1972]

@@DA-gi6gs Me too! Since it's been over 2 years since this comment, maybe there's a video now where Irene tells more about this topic?

[@SavannahE1972]

@@teamlyon3109 Since it's been over 2 years since this comment, maybe there's a video now where Irene tells more about this topic?

[@persevere6326]

Ocd is very much a result of early trauma Thanks for confirming

[@NarrelleChain]

Panic attacks, shaking, memory, add, can't stay still, migraine, anxiety, flight, depression, joint pain, alcoholism, substance addiction, and more I've forgotten, can't have relationships, sensitivity! I have scoliosis in my pelvis, pyroloria other than that I often think nothing wrong, digestive, can't burp, but much better, low stress tolerance!😂😂😂❤❤

[@basiabarbara3365]

Great talk Irene, as always! Thank you. Would you be able to talk about vaginismus sometime? I think this syndrome is still not well known even though so common.

[@teamlyon3109]

Hi! Nicole here from Team Lyon. Thanks for bringing awareness to vaginismus. Irene may mention certain syndomes in her talks but what's important to recognize with this work is it's less about working with the syndrome and more about working with the trauma - which in turn can influence the syndrome. When we work with healing our nervous system it can have such a great effect on ALL of us. I hope this video helped give some insight on that! If you are after some resources to start exploring I would suggest any of these! irenelyon.com/free-resources/

[@alaskanmalamute6137]

Basia Barbara look up Greg hf & Jane hutchison, you need to do stretches for muscles surrounding your pelvic floor.

[@basiabarbara3365]

Alaskan malamute Thank you, I will have a look.

[@unknown-8696]

How to come back in to the window of tolerance when you have derealisation and depersonalization? Need some help.....!! :( You are so amazingg!!!

[@teamlyon3109]

Hi! Nicole here from Team Lyon. Something important to recognize is that it doesn't happen quick. We have to put the time in to support ourselves and learn to build our capacity. We have to do our work and start healing our nervous system. I hope Irene's content continues to give you insight. And check out some of her resources and begin to integrate them into your day to day! irenelyon.com/free-resources/ Some one on one support might be helpful as well :) I look forward to future questions you might have as you explore and integrate! Nicole

[@unknown-8696]

@@teamlyon3109 but how do we do that? By training uses our senses?

[@teamlyon3109]

Hi @@unknown-8696, Seth here from Team Lyon. Simply put, we have to do the work! Sounds like you are ready to do that so I highly suggest heading over to irenelyon.com/tuneup/ and signing up! That way you can start learning the deeper education and practical tools necessary to actually do the work.

[@liz.a314]

Hey Seth, follow up on Sarah’s question and your response below. If it’s clear I suffered from early developmental trauma and how that shows up for me is very intense panic thoughts around the future, should somatic work be paired with some cognitive work? Or should it strictly be dealt with on a relationship / somatic level? I’ve tried CBT and it hasn’t worked but I am curious if there is something to working with the thoughts while getting into the body simultaneously…

[@teamlyon3109]

Hi Liz, Jen here. Seth is on holiday until mid-August so I'm answering. You may have seen a related answer elsewhere this evening, and the gist of it is that yes, it can be helpful to have some top-down awareness of what's happening, to name what's happening, that while the thoughts can appear convincing (if there's an imminent threat to our safety, our physiology wants us to pay attention!) they are a reflection of our physiological state, and not of truth/a predictor of the future. Peter Levine often encourages people to say "I'm having the thought that..." to bring in some witness consciousness and to recognize the thought for what it is, a thought. Hope this helps a bit. Feel free to ask follow up questions.

[@SavannahE1972]

@@teamlyon3109 This is a helpfull explanation for me. Today I got aware that almost all 'negative' thoughts (a.o. fearbased, unworthiness, failure) are from my little Savannah. By being aware that a thought is from the little girl in me, I can stepaside and name it as it is: 'this thought comes from little Savannah'. That way I don't identify with it in the present moment. By giving words to what is happening, I almost automatically get in the role of the observer. Reading your answer confirms what I discovered today. Thank you! 🙏🏼😘

[@Polina-hn7hu]

@@SavannahE1972 i totally agree with the inner child approach to heal trauma congnitively. Most fears belong to our inner children, so recognising it and bringing your adult self (with resources and knowledge little you did not have) on line is what helps to tackle various episodes. It is all about training the muscle of conscious thinking rather than being hijacked by your subconscious, along with various grounding work of course and meditation practices when you are not triggered.

[@caliigurl925]

Hi Irene, I recently started a medication for ADHD. I have all sorts of anxiety, trauma, depression, etc. I am familiar with the concepts you talk about on your channel, but I am wondering what your opinion on medication is? I intend to also begin Somatic Experiencing therapy, but do you suggest not taking ADHD medication as it is a stimulant to the nervous system?

[@IreneLyon]

Hi caliigurl925, Jen here from Team Lyon. The work we do here centers around learning to create foundational change by growing nervous system regulation and capacity. We don't have expertise about medications. From a nervous system perspective, we tend to find that medications can sometimes help some people gain enough stability to do this work, and they can often wean off over time as regulation grows. You might also discuss this with your SE practitioner to see if they have any considerations to share with you.

[@nadiahannibal3220]

Lots of love from Morocco !

[@LilMsLorelei]

Amazing and great video as always but clicked on the last link for the somatic practitioner referral list and it did not take me to a referral list. It took me to a list of Irene’s course offerings. Can someone supply the correct link?

[@teamlyon3109]

Hi LiMsLorelei, Jen here from Team Lyon. We know longer offer a referral list for a number of reasons. Irene did create a video on how to find a good somatic practitioner. The Somatic Experiencing Training Institute (SETI) also offers a practitioner directory. The members of Team Lyon are all nervous system trained and are well versed in Irene's work. Some may have openings. Here are a few links: irenelyon.com/2019/11/14/how-to-find-a-good-practitioner/ directory.traumahealing.org irenelyon.com/meet-the-team-3/

[@LilMsLorelei]

Team Lyon, thank you so much!!! 🌺

[@Sender1257]

A great q&a but I do think that ADHD can occur without trauma due to differences in brain composition/function. However it is without a doubt true that trauma can cause neurodivergence and mimick or amplify adhd, and inversely living with adhd or a similar condition in a world not designed to accommodate your unique needs and have your experience validated is traumatic in its self

[@liz.a314]

Hey team, could you speak to a little bit more of how to know the system needs to rest vs when to push the system a little bit? I am realizing as I listen to this that I tend to overdo it with this work with exercises and listening to lectures but ironically I also find the exercises and lectures calming for my nervous system.

[@teamlyon3109]

Hi Liz A, Jen here from Team Lyon. The answer lies in your nervous system response. If you feel like your system is moving in the direction of healing and regulation at a sustainable clip, then your system can likely hold the work you're doing. If you're noticing that what you're doing feels like to much, you're opening up a lot, or you're not sustaining the shifts you see, then you might consider resting more. And in general, if you know you tend to do it you might try leaning into the side of rest and notice how your system responds. Little bits of this work can often be surprisingly powerful!

[@liz.a314]

@@teamlyon3109 Thank you!!!

[@liz.a314]

@@teamlyon3109 any recommendations for how to manage the subsequent fight or fight that comes up (resistance/shame mind loops) when taking a break from the healing/rest?

[@Hanna-Nyasa]

What is your take on ASD ? I'm currently doing research with ASD adults and have been informed that ASD and ADD are under one umbrella term "neurodevelopmental disorders". There's high rates of comorbid "syndromes" in ASD as well as gut issues etc. & often previous traumas in relational spheres.. Is there any research on trauma and NS regulation in ASD ? Or do you have any experience/knowledge with this ??

[@IreneLyon]

Hi Hanna Stephenson, Jen here from Team Lyon. As you may be aware, ASD and ADD are often quite different. ADD does often have it's roots in nervous system dysregulation. More specifically, it's often related to high underlying sympathetic nervous system activation. My understanding is that ASD is more complex. While some people with ASD diagnoses notice benefit from growing nervous system regulation, it's not as simple as saying ASD is always a reflection of this dysregulation. Stephen Porges, PhD developed pklyvagal theory which you may be familiar with. He also partnered with iLs to create a nervous system listening intervention called the Safe & Sound Protocol (SSP) which was initially an intervention designed for working with people with autism diagnoses. I'll link to info on it in case you'd like to learn more. The Transformative Power of Feeling Safe - Dr. Stephen Porges - Autism Explained Online Summit 2021 - kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHzQg3Z9jM-KhaM Safe & Sound Protocol Research - integratedlistening.com/research/#SSP

[@unknown-8696]

By 42 minutes, how can you let the tension go? Because now im worried that yoga or muscle relaxation doenst work...... what can i do, which spot does irene means?

[@teamlyon3109]

Yoga and muscle relaxation can be helpful. But it could also be that that tension is an incomplete survival response of some kind. Hence why the importance of this work! See the comment above and in another comment in a different video for some resources to check out :) Nicole - Team Lyon

[@unknown-8696]

@@teamlyon3109 i mean, how to heal the survivel response then? If yoga doesnt work for relaxation for the nerves system

[@teamlyon3109]

@@unknown-8696 My suggestion is start doing the work we've suggested! Sometimes it's less about "knowing" and more about doing and noticing what starts to be different :) Nicole

[@unknown-8696]

@@teamlyon3109 like the grounding techniques? Touching, hearing etc? Now i have the feeling ;who's watching and i dont know who iam. Its scary to practise but i have to do it..

[@annyspb1]

Great video as always, Irene; I keep finding invaluable information on these Q&A videos. About circumcision, though - These operations (not only circumcision - heart ops, anything!) were carried out without anaesthetic (they'd use something to keep the baby quiet, but it would still be aware of all the pain) till 1949 in the UK, largely because the 'experts' believed that babies couldn't feel pain because they didn't have the neural pathways. I gather that there are parts of the world where circumcisions are still carried out without anaesthetic, and people who challenge the practice are often accused of, for example, anti-Semitism. It's quite a large issue, but this article helps with some of it. skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/7182/was-it-common-to-perform-surgeries-on-babies-without-anesthesia-because-doctors

[@teamlyon3109]

Hi Annyspb, Seth here from Team Lyon. Thanks for watching and for your comments. Yes, it's very sad that this barbaric practice is still carried out unthinkingly in so much of the world. As a man who was circumcised I can speak first hand to the damage it has caused. Even if there is anesthetic, to cut off the most sensitive part of a boy's anatomy, which also serves very important protective functions, is really never ok in my mind. I understand that some religions hold it as a sacred act, just as other religions value female genital mutilation as well, or stoning a woman to death for wearing the wrong clothes. Lots of ignorance out there!

[@annyspb1]

@@teamlyon3109 Many thanks for your reply, Seth - I imagine you and the rest of Team Lyon are busy with the launching of this year's SBSM. Indeed, a great deal of ignorance and fear, and the idea of attempting to communicate with the people involved is a daunting one.

[@annyspb1]

@@teamlyon3109 One of my close relatives was circumcised in 1946, right after birth, and he finds it very difficult to understand others' distress or pain. How to talk with him about it is the challenge.

[@teamlyon3109]

@@annyspb1 - Not everybody is ready or willing to acknowledge their trauma or do the work. If they are resistant then it's best not to push it.

[@SY-tn2io]

I do get what you’re saying about ADD is an underlying symptom of something that was caused in the development phase of a child, trauma or an unstable environment. Although, it is a known fact that ADD/ADHD is a real diagnosis, it is due to the lower levels of dopamine in the brain. When you said ADD is not real, why are ADD/ADHD brains have lower levels of dopamine, if it’s caused by a trauma or an unstable environment?

[@teamlyon3109]

Hi Sam Juan Yuno, Jen here from Team Lyon. I personally wouldn't say that ADD isn't real. We are finding more and more that it's often related to trauma, and to early/developmental trauma in particular. Trauma (and held incomplete survival responses) can cause us to overuse our survival physiology and inhibit access to physiological states that support healing and regeneration. Over time, this can impact all systems in the body, including hormones and biochemistry. If you haven't yet seen Irene's free Healing Trauma Training, I'd encourage you to check it out as you may find some more answers there. irenelyon.com/healing-trauma

[@kingtahaa1125]

Irene your videos are awesome, but you are not telling techniques a lot .

[@erinm3567]

Because there are plenty of resources that cost money which is where the real information and techniques are. It's all a money game, in every industry unfortunately.