Q&A with A&V Livestream 1/5/22

Virologists Amy Rosenfeld and Vincent Racaniello answer your COVID-19 questions (or any virus questions) on this livestream of 1/5/22 at 8 PM eastern US.
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[@Backtothescience]

Thank you so much Amy for staying to the end. Your many fans truly appreciate it. Looking forward to reading your blog post. (P.S. Of course, thank you too Vincent.)

[@samsejavka8600]

I second this comment. It’s a treat when Amy stays to the end. It’s also a treat when Vincent shows his ornery side!

[@Backtothescience]

@@samsejavka8600 yes, I love seeing Vincent's ornery side.

[@tonaruch8623]

Amy got carried away with their banter she stayed as time flew. Incidentally, I love how their friendship allows Vincent to let loose.

[@gerardbiddle1808]

Thank you Vincent and Amy. And you Amy for staying the distance. You both together make the interactions and exchanges more interesting and informative. Great job to you both.

[@shailareddy5213]

We love AMY!! you are the best! It's incredibly kind of you all Vincent, Daniel and others for you contribution to reducing our ignorance. It is honorable work.

[@theresaprator7608]

Thank you for providing an explanation that makes so much practical sense! It is much needed and much appreciated.

[@sbartdbarcelona44]

Happy birthday Vincent. Thank you Amy and Vincent-great to see you both and learn more about Sars-Cov2.

[@fanfreluchefanfreluche1246]

Happy birthday Vincent Happy New Year to both of you Your podcast is always educative and entertaining.

[@jenniferhogan4965]

Love Amy, she elucidates her opinions and educated stances without worrying overmuch about trying to please others or remain within the bounds of social expectations.

[@mattclayton2889]

Thanks for the content as always A&V 🙏👌👍

[@Sliverth]

Thank you, thank you! Just when I think I’ve already seen the best A&V discussion, you two knock it out of the park again. Thank you!

[@J9Castle]

Happy Belated birthday Vincent! Thank you Amy for staying longer. We appreciate you both!

[@vtee361]

Amy, your only “ problem” is that your far smarter than most and as a result are misunderstood You have a BRILLANT mind and wicked sense of human. Love listening to you

[@joefrancis759]

"Oh, TWiV came from a lab." I nearly peed myself laughing. Thanks for another one!

[@dandolittle6372]

As always excellent information thankyou both so much. We wait for your updates every week and are always grateful to get the latest science.

[@newsjunkie7892]

Good luck with the job interview Amy, wishing you all the best!

[@dalithecat]

Love what Amy was saying about rhinoviruses. As the mother of a nine-month-old baby and another child with asthma, rhinoviruses are a big deal.

[@miltz76]

Best place on the internet.

[@MrOzzyCam]

Thanks Amy and Vincent for another great Q&A. Happy 69th Birthday Vincent.

[@Reflekt0r]

Please let your words speak and not your fist. Your voice conveys all the passion that you want to convey, really.

[@gymjoedude]

Always informative and sensible.

[@janpat7373]

I think it’s time to have Michael Mina back on TWIV to talk about testing and the epidemiology of SarsCoV2. Would love to hear his perspective. Actually would be great if he joined your livestream to answer questions. Any chance of this happening?

[@kellycasperhanson4426]

I love you guys! I'm a very faithful follower of TWIV, and I understand your resistance to testing vaccinated people. It makes sense in the lab and on paper. Please, consider our recent brush with covid as you advise your listeners. At Christmas dinner, we had 8 people-- 5 were double vaxxed, 3 had the extra "booster." None of us wore masks because we were following "safe" covid protocol. One person turned out to be presymptomatic. She woke up the next day with multiple symptoms: fever, body aches, scratchy throat, and later developed a strong cough. She was ill for over a week. She tested positive for covid. The four of us at dinner with only 2 vaccines, all got sick. We weren't hospitalized, but we felt rotten, and it was not fun. I have chronic neuropathic pain, so I really did NOT want any more myalgias. (It's worth mentioning that the three other dinner guests who were boosted did NOT get sick at all, and their PCR tests were all negative.) So, if that one presymptomatic guest had first taken a test, she might have discovered her covid infection and stayed away. With all of the ways a covid infection can affect people's lives, why would you discourage testing the vaxxed? It would have saved us a lot of physical misery, plus we wouldn't have needed to isolate (my hubby slept in the office on a cot😑) and we could have gone to our jobs and carried on with normal life. Sadly, my son had to cancel his Christmas visit with his 5 year-old son. What a bummer to miss seeing my grandson! (He is vaxxed, but we did not want to risk a breakthrough infection for him.) Plus, the exposed, non-symptomatic family members had to find a place to get PCR tests done to satisfy their job requirements. Here in Portland, Oregon, it's difficult to get a PCR test done. You have to wait for several days to go in for the test, then it's 3 to 5 days for the results to come back. We were grateful that none of us ended up in the hospital, and I know that's the point of the vaccines, but isn't the point of the tests to prevent as much illness and disruption as possible? Just consider it, please. Thank you for all you do for your listeners! I remain a fan.

[@amber4027]

Oh I missed this. Thank you both!!

[@defacto_8840]

Hello Vincent and Amy: you are the greatest at this!

[@kimmer8547]

Thank you for all your information It is much appreciated to you both

[@jaf7765]

Amy you are brilliant, would you please present a lecture on TWIV.

[@SeniBua007]

Great show. Thank you.

[@SophyaAgain]

Vincent, do you often speak to Britons? Some time you use British pronunciation (53:40 incubator) and you once said "have a cuppa". lol BTH Happy New Year Amy & Vincent.

[@henkvandergaast3948]

Fantastic

[@henkvandergaast3948]

Just picked up on the pastries.. Amy, I think you are thinking of profiteroles

[@elinannestad5320]

I love boffins. Our Prime Minister says anti vaxxers are few in number but my life is full of them, everywhere I look. When I listen to twiv I feel I'm breathing free air.

[@NNCCCC63]

Dr. Daniel Griffin : "we're testing too much". Very glad to hear him say this...

[@jamesleem.d.7442]

How do i I DONATE MONEY to your operation ? 1/5/22 best show so far.

[@RiDankulous]

Job hunter support groups can be a great benefit to people who have trouble with the stress of job searches. Plenty of people in a similar circumstance can be supportive and calming in what is an overwhelming part of life. Amy seemed concerned about her job interview. I too have the same issue with stress, a pretty big issue for me but people help.

[@midgehobbs6886]

Hope your mum and partner are ok Amy.

[@carolann1727]

I love the channel, but i think it’s incorrect to say the it’s the people who are unvaccinated who will land in the hospital. I know a vaccinated person who landed in the hospital, and many unvaccinated people who did not land in the hospital. So I personally think that comment can spread fear out there to the unvaccinated or in those who love unvaccinated family, friends, etc. (like me). We all have to be careful about blanket statements like that if we’re ever going to get everyone to pay attention to the science.

[@WooliteMammoth]

Bonafide Italian here. You pronounce the E at the end of panettone. However, in dialects, you often shorten or alter words, so panetton could be a dialectic pronunciation. From central Italy, where I am from, you pronounce the E if you are speaking proper Italian.

[@droneinthehood]

Well, it is about not overwhelming the hospitals in this huge surge with Omicron, at least in Europe that’s a huge problem. Omicron is slightly milder for the unvaccinated, but there are too many that will clogg up the hospitals, and even with vaccinated people, if so many get infected at the same time, the numbers stack up against you. And if people want to avoid long covid - isn‘t it a bit too early to be so nonchalant about it? At this point we don‘t know yet how the long covid situation is gonna look like, and actually, the data we do have doesn‘t suggest vaccines protect from long covid very well. If long covid wasn‘t an issue for sure, I might agree with you, but as it stands now, we need more good data, no? Also, with such a huge surge it is impossible to protect the unvaccinated children. Sure, they‘ll be mostly fine, but it is still not fair to them to let the infestation rip through that age group. Who knows what long term damage might be done to a small proportion of them.

[@skepticalbadger]

Totally agree. A&V have an incredibly narrow 'field of view' on these issues.

[@telkmx]

Yeah i was a bit dissapointed by their answers on this. To me it make sense to take every measure to avoid infection even if i'm vaccinated. I don't want to risk long Covid..

[@janpat7373]

Thank you for your observations. I agree. The best podcast is when there is a counterbalance. An epidemiologist is needed to weigh in.

[@rasmasyean]

Not too long ago, thier stance was that it's best to avoid infection all-together because of the possiblity of long covid. But now that it's obvious infection cannot be realiably avoided, they seem to have backed off on that maybe. But yeah, there are the studies that say vaccines don't reduce the % chance of long covid regardless of disease severity. Maybe it's shortened though....we'll see.

[@heatherrowan7294]

Thank you both for tonight

[@dannythemedic]

Sun is our friend,

[@TheCommono]

I prefer howling at the moon...

[@mathithomson3516]

Thanks for this. Some sanity at last. We are nearing the end of our fourth wave (Omicron) in South Africa. Almost all patients in hospital now fulfill one of the following criteria : 1.) Left over Delta infection with long hospitalization 2.) Incidentally positive because all hospitalized patients are tested (i.e. they have some other reason for the hospitalization) 3.) If vaccinated and they have Omicron infection they have multiple co-morbidities. 4.) They are unvaccinated and have co-morbidities. Hospitals are experiencing strain because the curfew and alcohol sale restrictions have been lifted so of course accidents, assaults and domestic violence have increased and some of those patients will test positive and may be in ICU and ventilated because of their injuries. At the height of the wave the positivity rate was > 35%, so I think the actual cases in South Africa is around 7x the official number i.e. close to 30 million instead of 3.5 million. Twenty million people have been vaccinated so more than 70% of the total 60 million population has either natural or vaccine immunity. I think we should stop testing and get on with life; testing only those with symptoms and morbidity. Omicron is less virulent and I certainly hope it drifts sideways along this path instead of shifting to a more virulent variant against which neither vaccine or natural immunity has any power.

[@christopherrobinson7541]

Not many comments, I wonder why?

[@MikeUK]

does seem the goal posts keep moving, we cant keep getting boosters every 6 months forever. the lobbyists for the vaccine providers must be spending big!

[@TheCommono]

Why not?? Over here in France they ask their population now to work until their 67th year instead of 65th. After all, in one way or the other, they will make people - you and me - pay for ICUs, hospitalizations etc. Weird problem you have there, comrade... lol

[@stoppcovidiots4131]

Tests and masks can stop transmission of voc

[@misterguyute8962]

"Right, Amy?"

[@brigitteboulais5474]

Testing is crazy indeed… My only worry is my 4 year old grand-daughter, how to best keep her safe…

[@francisdelacruz6439]

Happy Birthday Vincent. Think you just need testing when you are encountering at risk people with high hospitalization scores according to Daniel using his point system It's like entering an ICU without disinfection procedures in place, foolishness. This would needlessly lead to avoidable mortality. Un needed testing though just might fuel paranoia and strange behavior we may not be able to afford nowadays.

[@RTew021]

You two are great. Imagine: humane intelligence that's informed. Maybe this will catch on in other arenas. Thanks!

[@tootstweet]

..... June now. People still testing like crazy in Australia. Sigh......

[@billcad15]

Protecting the unvaccinated is important. If people think hard, they are likely to come up with several good reasons why.

[@tellison540]

If I quoted half of what was said during this session, I would be blocked from social media.

[@junepagan8715]

Love your purple top,Amy!

[@dannythemedic]

They need vitamin d!!!!!!

[@gribbler1695]

Vitamin D deficiency or insufficiency is not significantly linked to susceptibility to COVID-19 infection.

[@jaimepatena7372]

Amy is kinda of grouchy.....I like it...she is honest about how she feels...she is no phony.

[@zeevberar1663]

THANKS FROM TEL AVIV

[@stoppcovidiots4131]

SarsCoV2 is preventable, it's Airborne, it lingers in the air

[@tractorpoodle]

I heard that Omicron is so transmissible it escaped earth’s atmosphere and infected the ISS. Just joking.

[@queenofshred]

Lol I am now imagining tiny coronaviruses suspended in droplets floating through space to the tune of The Blue Danube Waltz!

[@queenofshred]

Lol I am now imagining tiny coronaviruses suspended in droplets floating through space to the tune of The Blue Danube Waltz!

[@tellison540]

Wow, testing too much. Good to know

[@rasmasyean]

01:05:38 All other things being equal, the person who never gets sick but is laid out when they do has the "better immune system". It likely means they are "vulnerable" to say ONE virus because of genetic reasons, since that single virus (or handful of species) has a special protein that counters their specific immune system. But everthing else is cleared before symptom onset. OTOH, the person who frequently gets sick hints that most viruses can break through thier immune system to a point where viral load is high enough to get them sick, albeit for a short time each. For example, there should be cases of perfectly healthy people with strong immune systems who never get sick. But the pandemic has killed them right away because SARS-COV2 happens to be their achilles heel. Would it not have jumped from the bats into humans, they would probably still never get sick...until old age perhaps.

[@ruairidhmcmillan2484]

I am loathe to state this because partisanship seems to be so fashionable in the US, however, 'Stay in your own lane', is somewhat of a disappointing rebuttal. If you are party to a supported hypothesis then state it, substantively, without appealing to the authority of your 'lane', a rhetorical device which does not add to the integrity of scientific investigation. However tenuous one may believe the contribution of a variable may be to outcomes of COVID-19 pathology, state the results of the evidence and the internal validity of the analysis and methods. Vitamin D's role in functioning of the immune system+ is not univariate and isn't the reserve of a 'lane'.

[@jaf7765]

Michael Osterholm is advocating not wearing cloth masks

[@gribbler1695]

Not correct. Ref: COMMENTARY: My views on cloth face coverings for the public for preventing COVID-19

[@milenalm5288]

So many studies have shown that cloth and surgical masks are ineffective for respiratory viruses. And N95 is only marginally effective but only when professionally fitted on the individual's face.

[@quasi0mentos]

theres rippin it but amy fuckin rips it lol like she gets it

[@stoppcovidiots4131]

WHO accept SarsCoV2 is airborne, you should, too

[@skepticalbadger]

Vincent, I love your work but please stay in your lane on matters of public health OR educate yourself about them. You say testing isn't necessary e.g. for social gatherings in the UK because the vaccines work - yes, they work, however this is ALL about protecting the health service from a RELATIVELY high number of severe cases (due to extremely high infection rates) and also wider infrastructure from collapse due to people being off sick. You can't on the one hand lament insufficient vaccination rates and then also suggest that NPIs are nonsense. Until we have the vaccination and antivirals to keep rates truly manageable, high rates remain a real and extremely serious public health issue, and NPIs like testing is an essential tool to control them.

[@droneinthehood]

I absolutely agree 100%!! It is an extremely narrow view those two are having on the topic at the moment - so many sacrifices are being made already to try keeping the hospitals barely running!

[@deborahfreedman333]

@@droneinthehood And all those sacrifices are only necessary, because so many idiots chose to remain unvaccinated.

[@milenalm5288]

@@deborahfreedman333 you do realize that the vacc. does NOT prevent transmission. Vacc get it at the same rate as unvaccinated and carry same viral load. Omicron first appeared in a vacc. person. And by your verbiage I can see that you don't care about your fellow humans, you are narrow minded, judgemental and hate filled. What a shame...😐

[@irisxkx]

Are there really no studies actually testing virus load and transmission in covid breakthrough cases?

[@gribbler1695]

We know that the incubation period is reduced in these cases, and therefore the infectious period.

[@milenalm5288]

Most positive cases in most countries are now in the double and triple va**ed. Can they really be called breakthrough cases at this point? And CDC has reported viral loads are similar between both groups...but this is he problem with not having proper trials. You can't adequately and scientifically compare two groups when the control group was unblinded 3 months into the so called trial. All drug manufactures unblinded their control groups.

[@omegavague9042]

I was with you til you said "cloth masks are fine" 🙄

[@queenofshred]

I think a good fitting cloth mask with two or more layers of densely woven/knit cotton is better than a poorly fitting surgical or N95 mask. Plus people take better care of their cloth masks -- I've never seen a cloth mask littering the pavement or lying in a puddle but I see hundreds of littered surgical masks adding to the plastic pollution in my local environment (and this is in an area where most people are not masked).

[@margotbw4660]

Lol, Amy seems very over the covid hysteria.

[@rasmasyean]

Amy isn't autistic. She's fully aware of people's feelings and understands them. She just doesn't give a crap about hurting your feelings if she feels you're stupid. There's a difference between autism and intolerance.

[@queenofshred]

I'm autistic and I understand other people's feelings. I just can't read feelings from faces while having a conversation, so I don't do that thing that a lot of people do where they alter what they are saying based on other people's reactions in real time. There is a lot of diversity amongst autistic people, so "autistic" should not be seen as an insult.

[@rasmasyean]

@@queenofshred From life, I've learned that anything "different" can be insulted. Autistic people are just "far from average", so since majority of humans are conformists, they tend to take pride in being communal. Just like how the simple act of vaccination makes some people feel superior, even as it's mostly those who are "weak" that really need it to begin with. For example, when you look at many of the great scientists and thinkers, some people thought they were retarded when young. But they have what is aparently called "high functioning autism" today. IOW, these people are just interetested in creativity and changing the world instead of loitering and socializing with us at parties...so...we label them as some sort of diseased person who "happen to use that disease to concentrate and make something nice". Thats how people have been since the dawn of time. Only technologies advance. Poeple don't. ;)

[@ronaldchong]

33:05 🔥🤣

[@lauramargueta]

Thank you so much for giving the information threw science. I wanted to know if you have any data on antibodies transferred threw breastmilk? I still breastfeed my 20month old and just got my 3thrd shot , here in Canada. Thank you

[@droneinthehood]

I always appreciated your input on the topic, but I feel like a lot of the opinions that come up here have a bit of a contrarian feel to it, exaggerating towards "who cares about infection" and "too much testing" and "not protecting the unvaccinated" etc., completely disregarding what collateral damage this may do. A lot of it isn't based on actual data, which you actually also admit, since you don't believe the data, some of which may be low quality, sure. Nuance is missing in my view, but maybe you are tired of hearing always the same incorrect statements and are trying to balance out the main stream view, but go a bit overboard with it doing that. Anyway, regarding the question (@19:00 min) if an updated vaccine for Omicron would bring the vaccine efficacy against infection (VE) up to >90% again: the current booster does not bring it up to >90% already, more like 75%, but that's a small detail. And yes, it wanes quickly. But saying that an updated vaccine would wane as well, hence it doesn't matter -- I have to disagree, because how fast VE wanes makes a big difference in my view. We know that the waning has been way, way slower against the original Wuhan virus that the vaccines were designed for, compared with Delta for example, hence, logically, if follows that with an updated vaccine against omicron specifically, one can expect the waning to be also slower compared to the booster with the old vaccine. And that makes absolutely sense if you think about it: only a small proportion of the antibodies generated by the booster are working well against omicron, and if generally the antibody levels go down, the waning is going to be faster, since the lower concentrations will fall faster below an effective level compared to the bulk of antibodies that are mostly still designed against the ancestral strain. However, if the main antibodies are targeted against the actual variant that is circulating, then it would take longer until the levels go below an effective concentration in the blood. What am I missing, isn't this correct? In my mind, it does make a big difference if after a booster, the protection goes from 75% after 2 weeks down to ~30% after ~3 months, vs. if the protection starts at >90% VE, and stays above 50% for 1/2 year. But I know, "who cares about infection".

[@queenofshred]

A vaccine specifically for omicron probably wouldn't be ready until the next variant of concern came along, and then it might not be as effective against that new variant as the vaccine based on the original Wuhan virus. This is why I don't think we will have new vaccines tailored to one specific variant.

[@droneinthehood]

@@queenofshred Interesting point. Sure, that‘s a possibility. However, it is my understanding that changes in the stimulus also broadens the immune response. Hence, isn‘t it more likely that a booster with an Omicron-Spike-Vaccine would lead to better immunity to the next variant than simply boosting again with the old vaccine? I don‘t see how keeping using the same can be better.

[@stoppcovidiots4131]

droplets DOGMA IS WRONG ,AMY!

[@NicoSportscards]

Amy always talks about the spanish flu as 5 years. Everything ive ever seen on it thought says it was 2 years. Anyone know what shes referring to?

[@gribbler1695]

She is referring to the book The Great Influenza by John M Barry. Barry posits that zoonosis could have occurred as early as 1915. There was a very spotty first wave that was relatively mild and missed most of the world, and medical articles suggested that it wasn't influenza because it wasn't killing enough people. Then the virus seemed to change, becoming much more lethal. The first outbreak of this lethal second wave was in Switzerland in July 1918. This spread around the world and killed an estimated 50 to 100 million people.

[@skepticalbadger]

@@gribbler1695 So not a scientific or historiographical consensus then?

[@gribbler1695]

@@skepticalbadger I don't have the book. You would need to see his references supporting that position.

[@christopherrobinson7541]

@@gribbler1695 There were separate camps in Switzerland for both sides.

[@danielmartini3229]

my apologies, I was very upset with you about your carefree way of addressing Omicron a few videos back - in this video you resurrected yourselves completely.

[@KalebandPups3DShop]

Bro on the right don’t look so good