Q&A with Tara Westover - Author of "Educated" - Mormon Stories Ep. 903

We were honored to host a live Q&A and book signing with New York Times bestselling-author Tara Westover on March 29, 2018 at the First Unitarian Church in Salt Lake City.
Tara is the author of the book Educated. Born in Idaho to a father opposed to public education, she never attended school. She spent her days working in her father's junkyard or stewing herbs for her mother, a self-taught herbalist and midwife. She was seventeen the first time she set foot in a classroom. After that first encounter with education, she pursued learning for a decade, graduating magna cum laude from Brigham Young University in 2008 and subsequently winning a Gates Cambridge Scholarship. She earned an MPhil from Trinity College, Cambridge in 2009, and in 2010 was a visiting fellow at Harvard University. She returned to Cambridge, where she was awarded a PhD in history in 2014.
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Timecodes:
00:00 Introduction
02:14 Motivation for writing
04:34 Was it therapeutic to write the book?
09:31 Positive and negative liberty
13:48 Major components constraining positive liberty
19:29 Nuanced view of religion
22:32 What has feminism become for you?
27:40 What was interesting about Mormon intellectual history
31:35 How have women from Mormon history influenced you?
37:18 Space in the LDS church for more cultural Mormons?
39:07 Teaching yourself how to write
44:21 What would your advice be to students to find motivation?
47:21 Interactions with prof. Steinberg
48:16 Plans after this thesis?
50:35 Thoughts about the traditional family
51:27 How to look critically at your belief system
54:55 How find your own resilience
1:05:16 John asking Tara's family what it's like to see your niece become a global phenomenon
1:08:54 Where did the strength come when you father offered a blessing?
1:14:52 What do you do to have fun?
1:16:12 Current day job
1:16:35 Do you feel like an advocate for people restricted in the LDS church?
1:19:08 Have you felt impulses to evangelize people out of the church?
1:22:03 Can people with mental illnesses be totally excused for behavior?
1:24:09 Any residual PTSD from the abuse?
1:25:08 Experience at BYU? Fondest or worst experience?
1:26:09 Reading on book tours? Tara reading from her book
1:34:00 How to respond to a victim?
1:36:24 What to do and not to do when a victim comes forward?
1:42:13 Who are you now?
1:45:12 What can they do to bring you back in their life?
1:45:38 Closing words
#LDS #Mormon #PostMormon #ExMormon #MormonStories #Religion #Education

[@addie2754]

I read “Educated” in three days, and I’m not an avid reader. One of the best I’ve ever read!

[@saravaldez8866]

Couldn't put the book down, it gave so much clarity to my own doubts on family obligations. A must read.

[@sunnyknollsfarmcobleskilln7042]

Why is it hard to leave? Because the good is real too. I love how she says to use anger when needed but not to live with it.

[@TheKak933]

This journey is beautifully written by a strong person with a definite sense of self. I even love the way she healed. I wouldn’t change a thing. This book is a treasure

[@chidambaram_annamalai]

Spot on.

[@stephanieorangeblue]

Tara has such an eloquent and clear way of speaking her mind, I love it. This lady makes a lot of sense of the human character and makes excellent points. I kept feeling the urge to take notes 📝

[@karendalsadik7119]

Agreed. I admire the way you stayed that. Hmm budding writer?

[@anamariacoccolo2240]

I loved her book Educated and the best of this , her own story is how much she has contributed with her personal experience to anybody living a similar experience. SHE DOES TEACH US HOW IMPORTANT TO LOOK FOR EDUCATION IN ORDER TO GIVE LIGHT TO IGNORANCE AND FEARS .

[@ludmilamaiolini6811]

I love that her aunts were there and participated

[@tigran56]

I suddenly remembered Unorthodox. Similar tale brilliantly told, from a whole other world. The two aunts are amazing! Thank any of the various gods you might like for all these glorious women and their grasping of freedom.

[@sanjalisnjic7271]

OMG, so beautiful that the aunts came to the microphone.... ❤❤❤ One little correction, as a person who had been estranged by some members od my family.... Tara says in the end that she decided to cut off their parents but that is not what happened,she decided to be authentic self and not to succumb to their lies any more and the parents decided to cut her off. That's what had happened to me,I just changed and didnt want to succumb to their diminishing ideas about myself and they didnt want to see me again. It took me also a while to reaise that I didnt choose not to see them I just chose I would be different and they couldnt take it.

[@kristivaldez5815]

We give up freedom of self for safety from questioning. It takes courage to live outside of that. Kudos to Tara for doing so.

[@maverickspirit208]

Excellent interview, and a must watch for anyone who has read "Educated". I applaud Dr. Westover for speaking HER PERSONAL TRUTH. She acknowledges that it is a slow unfolding process of evaluating & understanding her past. In five or ten years, I hope that she writes another autobiography about the next chapter in her relatively brand new adventure of experiencing true freedom. Bravo, Dr. Westover, well done!

[@RichardChappell1]

I get a kick out of people who use the phrase "personal truth" as if that makes a biased and exaggerated story more real.

[@wallmaria6867]

@@RichardChappell1 Exaggerated or not, it's her story. We have neither the right to judge the way other people feel, nor the abiltity to comprehend their feelings fully, simply because we are not them.

[@unknown_individual7050]

@@RichardChappell1 it appears that her story only became more believable after her mother’s gaslighting and self righteous memoir came out.

[@RichardChappell1]

@@unknown_individual7050 - And you know it's gaslighting how?

[@unknown_individual7050]

@@RichardChappell1 because her entire family abandoned her when she tried to set things right in her story. She doubts herself in her accounts (as she was conditioned to do from a young age because of her family’s views) until she finally discovers multiple eye witness accounts into the abuse she took (in public might I add). If you’ve read both books it becomes painfully obvious that tara’s mother is lying. This especially comes through when the story she (laree) is trying to tell starts to fall apart and become incoherent. I understand how you wouldn’t believe tara’s account because you were probably a) never abused growing up or b) never been around abuse growing up but to discount it in favor of an incoherent retelling is ill minded and cognitively dissonant.

[@harliarmes4259]

This is a GOOD work if I’ve ever seen one.

[@sunkziodiac]

What a great interview with a competent moderator. Such a pleasure to listen to, especially that some of the people asking questions were the family of the interviewee. That was surprising!

[@notetoheather8818]

I grow as a person and as an intellectual every time I read or hear Tara. She is so bright and such a tremendous vessel of discovery. And her aunts??!! Tears!!! So amazing, this journey...for Tara and for all that listen.

[@dianemilligan7370]

This was absolutely wonderful - an informative discussion expanding on what was written in this extraordinary book. Thank you!

[@tlotus3032]

Tara's aunts are awesome! That is heartening!

[@jillhughes9283]

There is so much internet controversy over if this story is "true". The Aunts completely validated her story to me. I am so glad she still has family members who are in her life.

[@coomsey9]

Incredible woman and writer.

[@joannekerr3]

Tara, thank you so so much for sharing your story. Your book is absolutely amazing and you are amazing as well! You are such an inspiration and I hope you don't mind my saying this because it sounds super cheesy but I draw strength from stories like yours. I have so much trouble conquering my fears and standing up for myself, stories like yours help me to realize that overcoming is possible. God bless you xoxox sending you all of my love and encouragement 💞

[@mimibatman2787]

I am so impressed with her depth and eloquence! I think that I am going to break down and buy her book today (it's on hold with the library and a long waiting list).

[@bobbijones9334]

Sometimes, just by chance, a person says something that makes your thoughts suddenly brake - bingo! That is the answer I have been looking for. I read the book, I felt many parallels to my own life, but it was this talk that gave me a gift.

[@zandertaylor7709]

Thank you for the john stuart mill quote , going to sight this in an existential class discussion.

[@danishear6574]

This was such a wonderful interview!! Both moderator and author were stellar. The (at first) reluctant Aunties were so gorgeous to listen to...they really found their voice. I am not of the Mormon faith (I'm of the Jewish faith) but I definitely would love to hear more of "Mormon Stories". So touched by Tara and her powerful journey. She does not suffer fools...what a gentle strength she has. Thank you so much for this...you made my afternoon.

[@thomasholguin451]

Tara Westover is simply amazing. Touched by your story, moved to tears by your aunts, I wish you all the best and happiness. You are a beautiful person inside and out. :)

[@roxannemiller2378]

Tara is an amazing woman with her own field of expertise. Please also read the books by her mother, LaRee Westover, who is also amazing and has her own field of expertise. Diversity abounds in all our lives.

[@mountainlinx]

Beautiful intelligence

[@jmcast3195]

Love the discussion at 53:00 about science

[@plmbx]

I am so in awe of this woman. To see the strength she had to find to separate herself from such a violent family, and to yet be willing to see them from a safe distance with love still. It would be so easy for her to shut them out, to swim in hatred. I think her book is an amazingly useful tool in understanding what a person goes through when they separate from familial abuse, especially as a child. I'm also Mormon and see in her so many examples of Christlike love and forgiveness. Of fearlessly telling the truth and getting safe while also being willing to see what she loves in her family. She seems to have found freedom. I'm sure she has a long road ahead of her. I just finished reading her book and just feel so relieved that she seems to be surviving well. I'm so grateful for that roommate and bishop she had at BYU who helped her get the grant to be able to afford school without working for her father. For me that really seemed to be the turning point that allowed her to escape. So grateful they both perservered in helping her! I'm rooting for Tara to have a wonderful future.

[@truefuschniken]

Loved it!!! :) thanks!!!

[@anotheryou218]

Her story reminded me a lot of the gal who escaped from Scientology after having been raised in it from early childhood. I believe her last name is Miscavige. Anyway, what I find extremely interesting about these stories is how, in spite of how horrific the experience might have been, a person has very little chance of breaking free of such extremely abusive upbringing. I suppose it is a miracle that anyone ever breaks free of such conditioning. This woman's journey to liberation., and all that stands in opposition to it (particularly from within the victim) is as riveting a story as I have ever read. Very Inspiring.

[@kristenmacedo5013]

I wish I could get past the idea that this book is more about the lengths that families will go to, to protect an abuser. Even the author refuses completely say that her brother was trash who violently and emotionally abused multiple people. I would love to celebrate how well she's done in her life, despite her upbringing...but I want the abuser held accountable.

[@proudmom1454]

Religion was the first attempt at Science. It made sense for Sapiens to try to make sense of their world in a way that helped add order and justification to the way things seemed to be as well as offer a blueprint of how men & women were to behave which allowed cooperation in large groups. Who knew that it would take over 2.000 years for humans to begin to outwardly question various religious "truths" without the fear of death or persecution in more advanced & open thinking societies. While the author states that the book isn't purposely discrediting the Mormon religion or religion in general, the book successfully allows the reader to see how religious fanaticism lends itself to magical thinking without an ability of questioning factual evidences or PROOF of a set of belief systems. An education helps to navigate real truths backed by scientific tested beliefs. When we are educated in academia, we humans are less vulnerable to oppression, poverty, and rationalized abuse.

[@derrickk773]

Probably tens of thousands of years.

[@lisac8509]

Read the Book "Them" by Ben Sasse.

[@wendykay3195]

Fabled Creature It is so hard to decide what to do ..... what is right ......... we are raised with the words of the prophet hanging in out hearts. .... the desire to serve our lord and god .... prayers that seem to go no further that the ceiling ..... begging our god for answers the words that hold heavy in my heart are " in the last days there will be a great falling away from the church " I was shocked when my nieces told me that their mother told them that I hate Mormons ..... a culture I identified myself as being a part of As I read the bible my thoughts become even more confused it feels like finger nails on a chalkboard I don't know what to think about god or religious beliefs I agree and have often thought I am trapped in Stockholm syndrome in many ways it feels like standing and slowly sinking into a bogg that pickles the soul and destroys the bones if you have the strength to stand up and speak up as your vision becomes clear ...... you lose your family ..... your friends ..... Possibly even your job ...... you become that person in the community that people point at and talk about not to mention you become precived as being allied with the devil and the host of hell all this confusion. .... it feels like the slippery slope we are warned about to keep us in check

[@janetjohnson998]

Wendy Barker I have found great insight that changed my life in the first three volumes of The Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East. That and meditation. Dr Joe Dispenza's work coupling science and spirituality/mysticism through specific meditations. I hope you aren't offended at my sharing.

[@ckwong03]

John asking her to read after she’s been coughing the whole time 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@snowbella2231]

what's her podcast called?

[@mdebhul1528]

Tara says 'He's a bit paranoid" !!!.. that is the understatement of the century..correction "father was batshit crazy, deluded, feckless, reckless, negligent with our health". "We would get injured quite a bit" another understatement, correction "some of us almost died, at his hands, we suffered horrific, horrendous pain, wounds, burns, accident at his neglectful hands, which could have been avoided" down playing this is NOT normal. The fathers words calling women "whores" was visited on the sons, on to the entire family in tirade after tirade their entire lives. The son then used this on his own sister, calling her a whore - she was a young girl. Another sadist in the making by a sadist. Fractured men incapable of being in this world without hurting others who shine and bring light. Downplaying ANY of this is beyond comprehension. Let call it what it is. No cotton-wooling this. The father inflicted his rage, his paranoia, his delusions, his extremism from his own multitude of inadequacies onto his own long-suffering family.

[@RichardChappell1]

Quite a judgement from someone who only knows gossip about another person. I wonder what people say about you when you aren't around to defend yourself.

[@MsDF936]

M deBhul she’s still in some denial, completely normal for childhood ptsd

[@mdebhul1528]

@@RichardChappell1 Spoken by someone attempting to defend the indefensible.

[@RichardChappell1]

@@mdebhul1528 - And you demonstrate it once again. I gave no defense, yet you would make that false claim and spread it as well.

[@Kindnessmatters2]

I'm shocked...just shocked...that nobody would stop the interview and say to this amazing women..."Obviously you are tired and sick...go home and get into bed and feel better!" ...but no...they wanted a moment at her expense.

[@IngemoH]

She's grown up woman, could have said no. And these interviews usually take a lot of admin around, they can't be just rescheduled that easily. She's slept two nights in past months in her own bed, so she's obviously travelling. She's survived far worse!

[@Kindnessmatters2]

We should take care of each other...despite cost.

[@lizhumble9953]

This is exactly what she was talking about in feminism. She can decide for herself when she is too sick to partake in the interview. She has a mind and voice of her own, and the producers or participants of the interview have no right to tell her another truth of you are too sick go home. It is both not their job, but it is their responsibility to respect her own control of her life and let her make her own decisions about something as simple as the workings of her own body.

[@MsDF936]

Inge-Mo Haraldh people who suffer from childhood trauma very often don’t understand they can say no

[@lynneng25]

Yes

[@JeanClaudeNoel]

What an emotionally and intellectually intelligent person. For a brief moment I thought "Tara for president!". But that would be a waste of her talents. Instead there should be a "Tara test" for a new "President elect". Fail the test, out you go.

[@ClayBlasdel44]

l was only 50 pp into her book when I recognized the Mormon cult behavior and that her father was a reckless maniac and her mother an abused woman, so common in Mormonism. What surprised me was how long it took her to break the bonds, painful as it was. Lots of us survivalists have food and water in storage, ammo, gas and etc. but WITHOUT the crazy religious drive.

[@coultergill7728]

Clay Blasdel for the most part we aren’t a cult but her family is definitely on the extreme side so it makes sense why she left because her upbringing is completely different than most members of my church

[@binamills4931]

Not a cult. Most of our dads are not reckless maniacs and most of us mothers are not abused. I read the book & it wasn’t how I grew up as a mainstream member of “The Church of Jesus Christ”.

[@ukkoloki]

Not typical LDS experience. Tara tried to warn the reader not to lump her family in with typical LDS experience.

[@function0077]

I was raised mainstream orthodox LDS in the 80s and 90s. At the very least, Mormonism is a high demand group. At worst, it is a cult. I served a mission; I have been to the temple; I am BYU alumni; and I was married in the temple. Fulltime Mormon missions are definitely culty. The temple is cringy and culty. I am thankful I was able to escape from Mormonism.

[@kans6]

Who wants to think that their parents are horrible…. That their upbringing was terrible …That the church their family’s whole lives are steeped in was a hideous influence on their life……and worse she tells these extreme stories and at the end of many would say … I was 8 yrs old or I was 10 years old or I was 5 years old……I get the frustration all of us as observers have to deal with…. It’s like watching a child walk across the street into oncoming traffic but your too far away from the scene to stop it…….few 5, 8 or 10 year olds can stop it either

[@cuongho0110]

1:24:10

[@kimberlycarlile]

What a healthy, self-possessed young woman. I just love that she refuses to ratify John’s Gospel of Outrage, no matter how many times he tries to box her into it. Though it’s crystal clear to we listeners, I doubt he realizes how thoroughly he was schooled by Ms Westover in this interview. Unfortunately, neither he nor his minions of Mormon Stories black-and-white thinkers will learn anything from her, which is too bad.

[@ckwong03]

Kimberly Carlile couldn’t agree more!

[@justinfrahm4935]

I wonder if the father was influenced by Bo Gritz?

[@thumpermater5550]

Didn't read the book but know the father personally. Little different but not a psycho. I don't think the book tells the whole truth about everything.

[@madamwiperfluid]

@@thumpermater5550 you only know your experience of her father. Family dynamics are not always evident.

[@pbtraveler694]

(wish people would more carefully formulate their questions----whew.)

[@danishear6574]

:)

[@vintageyellow71]

John, I have very much appreciated and I’ve been so delighted to gain so many wonderful perspectives from guests that are on your channel. I don’t want to be rude or be dismissive but I miss Westover had really nothing to add to any of these questions asked to her. I heard a lot of I don’t knows and a lot of looking at the ceiling with comments that were grasped out of thin air With extended answers once she got on a roll that really had nothing to do with the question. I know she came out of a bad situation and for her individual self she was granted many wonderful accolades in education and from many different prestigious schools but honestly I did not get one single thing from this interview with her. Not to mention it was painfully difficult to watch her suck on her car drop. That is a minor point but I just have to say that I didn’t find her in lightning but I did find her a very endearing and beautiful and wonderful young woman. I think she is a Terrifically educated and broadened road after she got out of her parents grasp. Anyway I just didn’t find many of the answers to be really pertinent or adding anything to the questions that were asked except that she was being celebrity just for being so well educated. Anyway intelligentsia is wonderful and it’s at the same time not always completely relevant to everyone. If that’s me so be it but I do feel my perspectives and my take away is from things are pretty well rounded but I just didn’t feel like I came away feeling that way after her interview

[@sandycabral4914]

You didn’t find her “in lightning?” Wow. Stay in school.

[@daniellanglois8807]

It's just me asking what is she eating all this interview? Is she constantly chewing her gums? Some nervous thing?

[@yarawilde6026]

Daniel Langlois She mentioned it several times. It was a cough drop. She had a cough she was dealing with.

[@daniellanglois8807]

yes, I eventually caught on.

[@pbtraveler694]

she had a cold, obviously

[@user-bw3fl7fj9w]

@@yarawilde6026 someone else was coughing too. Kind of annoying to listen with all the coughing!!

[@QueenVelveeta]

Whatever is in her mouth is distracting.

[@owenprince4823]

When a person is nervous then your mouth will dry out. She should have drank more water. This is what happened to me when I was in court for 2 hours. My mouth got real dry.

[@maggiethurber8111]

I think she had a cold. She coughed a bit and she probably needed a cough drop to finish the interview.

[@michaelhunt3576]

I thought so too but she actually mentioned that she is sucking on a cough drop. I can't imagine doing an interview that long with a bad cold and having to do it with a cough drop in your mouth the whole time. Kudos to her.

[@sandylethbridge7021]

Im glad she said she had a cough drop in jer mouth. I was about to stop watching . It is distracting

[@heritageresearchcenter8970]

?????

[@et1016]

The cough drop needs to go. 🤦‍♀️

[@cabayern9416]

Glad you stated this! I enjoy her interviews, however, this was annoying.

[@MsDF936]

She’s sick...great compassion 🙄

[@MsCaterific]

🙄

[@ellenmurphy8360]

Why doesn't someone tell her that it looks like she is chewing on food and clearing it from her mouth the whole interview. She is truly lovely and impressive, but the mouth thing is annoying.

[@byjanean]

Ellen Murphy She mentioned it when asked about singing - she was sick and had a cough drop in her month.

[@Revengestar]

Why is she talking like she is chewing tobacco or there is something in her mouth?

[@mormonstories]

She was super sick that day.

[@repotergirl9]

Because there was, she says she has a lozenge in her mouth at one point.

[@function0077]

The cough drop was the lesser of two evils (i.e. cough drop or coughing during the interview).

[@samcheeseman3426]

Is she eating while she's being interviewed? So distracting

[@deborahbarker9173]

Sam Cheeseman she obviously has a cough. She says she is using cough drops to lessen how much she coughs during the presentation. Not rude, practical.

[@samcheeseman3426]

@@deborahbarker9173 I didn't say it was rude

[@marcelastacey890]

You tried so hard to bash Mormonism. Why not just respect her point of view instead of trying to take her into your agenda.

[@function0077]

Mormonism is easy to criticize, because there are so many ways it can and should be criticized (e.g. theocratic aspirations, hoarding wealth, chronic lying, patriarchy, racism, homophobia, etc.). It is obvious that Tara doesn't see eye to eye with Mormonism, and she chose to not articulate exactly how she disagrees with Mormonism. John D. did a pretty good job of respecting her point of view.

[@yukiderem9706]

Nice interview. But she just was doing fake hem everytime when he asks quiestions. It was annoying and disrespectful.

[@jmcast3195]

Her dad was right about vaccines though...

[@coultergill7728]

JM Cast no anti vaccination people are wrong

[@function0077]

Her father was completely wrong about vaccines.

[@jmcast3195]

@@function0077 hurry up and get your booster!

[@owenprince4823]

Her father is correct and the end is near. The world as we know it is ending.

[@IngemoH]

AND he's bipolar, uneducated, misygynist and turning a blind eye to his son's violence against his wife, girlsfriends, sisters, brothers etc. And all the carelessness (car accidents, fire, metal etc jeopardizing all family members. Nice guy...

[@tolowreading6807]

The world as we know it ends every day.

[@RichardChappell1]

@@IngemoH - Oh, you've met him? Or are you relying on gossip - stories which someone says about someone else.

[@coultergill7728]

Richard Chappell there’s enough evidence that he clearly was on the insane side so just stop

[@MsDF936]

Richard Chappell I’m thinking you’re the dad 🤣