QAC 66 - Split Attraction Model: Opting Out Of Romantic Orientations || Grayromantic | Asexual

[@SkyeID]

Not too many people talk about the other types of attraction: sensual, platonic, queerplatonic, WTF?! attraction, and so on. Relationships are things that society is weird about. For me, my sensual, platonic, queerplatonic, WTF etc. relationships with individuals are all valid and distinctly recognized. Usually society only makes distinctions between "romantic" and "we're just friends". Most of the time, society doesn't acknowledge attractions outside of romantic attraction. For the ones who do see the distinctions, they don't place as much importance on them than they do with romamtic attraction. For better or for worse, I put all the individuals in my life into the attraction categories, and my relationships are correlated to those categories. (i.e. sensual relationships, platonic relationships, WTF?! relationships etc.) It really gets on my nerves the way romanctic relationships are on a higher scale than all other types of relationships, and that people sometimes abandon their friends to focus solely on their romantic relationships. All of relationships are very important to me, and I hate being abandoned in deference to someone's romantic partner, because I feel like I'm not important anymore. I shall endeavor never to do that.

[@biancaboricua13]

Now that I'm approaching 40, I've gotten to the point where my answer is that I'm asexual and that is all. I don't answer questions on whether I'm romantically attracted to anyone, if I would like to be in a relationship, etc. I have more important things to worry about like whether my teens are going to burn my house down while I run to the grocery store (kidding but only a little). By the way, watched Black Panther and as a fan of Marvel Comics I've been wanting to talk to everyone about it but most people don't understand the story line...insert sad face.

[@QueerAsCat]

ah, if only saying that i'm asexual and leaving it at that worked for me... as for actually answering questions that others might have about me, that is an easy "what does it matter to you?" ;) re: Black Panther, yeaahhhh..... while i can't claim to know the comics or the stories in them as i've never read them, but i can totally relate to conversation with some people falling "short", to put it mildly, when it come to discussion of Black Panther. very sad indeed...

[@ThePersephonis]

It took me more than 30 years to learn that I'm not broken. Your words just saved my life. Thank you so much for sharing!

[@sailorcat]

Yeah, I also started to question what romance actually is, but I don't think I will ever know. xD

[@QueerAsCat]

eh, "romance" differs from person to person, culture to culture anyway, so it's ok to just decide what it means to you personally, i think.

[@siginotmylastname3969]

This sounds like me, I identify as ace, greyromantic and bi, so while I'm dreaming of some sort of relationship a lot and can imagine something like platonic and occasionally romantic partners, it would be very difficult in reality. It really is a bit extreme how aro people are these rare aces who never ever wanted romance and everyone else is assumed to be romantic. Great video, it's hard to explore such a fuzzy area.

[@QueerAsCat]

that's how i felt, that any attempt at a relationship of any kind would be difficult and incredibly unlikely, given my..... complicated experience with attraction, among many other things, although i didn't much dare to even dream. thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts.

[@estancemoriarty1810]

It's incredible to see you articulate so well all the things that nebulate around my skull without me being able to settle on something stable. I share the same experience of the split attraction model having helped me a lot, but coming to move beyond it, without the community's collective reflexion having caught up. In the exploration of interpersonnal relationship, attraction & identity, it is both amazing & exhausting, to be charting & re-charting the map of unexplored territory. We build tools of understanding & we move past them very quickly. Your input into the collective discussion is invaluable. Thank you very much, for your words & your courage in sharing them.

[@QueerAsCat]

ah, as always you are far too kind.... thank you so much not only for watching, but for sharing your feelings as well. as someone who's felt alone in my thoughts regarding this topic, it's really nice to know that i was never actually alone. that others out there share similar experiences and / or feelings-- especially in regards to having previously found the split attraction model to be useful, but that no longer being the case. "We build tools of understanding & we move past them...." this definitely describes how i feel, as well as what you said about "charting and re-charting the map of unexplored territory." what beautiful wording.

[@stonelarkquetzal]

You're videos are pretty amazing and you're amazing and you've helped me a lot in thinking about what I am and figuring out what I am. But like you, I'm so done with the complicated labels that I felt I had to put on myself. I like knowing that there are others out there like me, but also, I'm just me. The weird thing is that I'm in a polyamorous relationship and I couldn't imagine life without them despite being aromantic and asexual. They are my people, my tribe and that's really all there is to it. It's as simple or complicated as you make things. Sometimes, to make things easier on yourself, you've gotta go with the simpler option. Gods know I need to some days. I have also seen Black Panther and would LOVE to see you do a video about it. Okoye and Shuri were my favorites! Absolutely love love love that movie!

[@QueerAsCat]

thank you for the kind words, as well as for the words of wisdom. i completely agree that sometimes it's best to take the easier route, especially when it's a form of self-care, and being able to be at peace with that is even better. i'm glad that you seem to be in a good place with things, with good people around you. :) as for Black Panther, Okoye is totally kickass. 8) Shuri is really cool too. :)

[@djmr5188]

I haven't even finished the video yet but I need you to know this is wonderful. EDIT: Okay now I've finished it and yeah: WONDERFUL.

[@EthuilielCyneburg]

Thank you so much for sharing this! I really related to it. I went from not having any sort of specific sexual/romantic/etc. identity until my mid/late twenties, to, over the course of 3 years or so, identifying as "Somewhere on the ace spectrum" to "maybe demiromantic asexual?" to "quoiromantic asexual" to "bi/panalterous quoiromantic asexual", but that's kind of a mouthful, so I have mostly just been using ace. But... I don't like the assumptions that come with that. Like, I can't figure out if the attraction I have felt in the past is romantic or alterous. I know it's not sexual. And I can identify times that attraction has been strictly aesthetic but not anything more. But the difference between a squish and a crush just don't make sense in my brain. But I still want *some* sort of deeper relationship, so just identifying as "ace" and having people assume that it means "aro-ace" (and furthermore that aro-ace means being single forever, which is also wrong) is frustrating too. As you talked about your thoughts about labels it helped me clarify some thoughts in my head about my own labels. Even if those thoughts are still confused and complicated, it helped me look at them in a new light. So thank you for that!

[@QueerAsCat]

thank you for watching and for sharing your thoughts, even as you are still processing them yourself. i can relate a lot to your experiences and am honored to have been able to help you in any way.

[@danieljennagrouse]

For me the most obvious way to opt out of people's amatonormative assumptions is to label myself as bi/pan aro-ace. It replaces default assumptions with confusion ("how does that work?"). For me the tragic part isn't people's assumptions about myself, it's the lack of discussion about other kinds of attraction and what it means to be bi or pan aro-ace. It took me ages to come to terms with my aromanticism just because of the lack of resources. I recently made a tumblr post about my experience with attraction and the kind of relationship I find desirable and the amount of people rebologging it with tags expressing someone "put it into words" is simultaneously heartwarming and heartbreaking. Discussions of alterous attraction and of queerplatonic relationships are rare and when they happen inevitable someone busts in to shout "do you mean friends?"

[@francesayres9243]

Would you be able to put a link to that article? This video really resonated with me as well and I would like to read what you have written :)

[@Nhouah]

Bi/pan aroace here too :) I would enjoy reading your post.

[@QueerAsCat]

thank you for watching and for sharing your thoughts. it seems like labeling yourself bi/pan aro-ace has a similar effect for you as identifying as both bi/pan in general has had for me-- especially years ago, when people thought it outrageous or unfathomable that someone identify explicitly as both bi and pan. i suppose i could have opted to do the same as you have done, except i have reservations about identifying as aro anything. regardless, i do share your feelings about the lack of discussion about other types of attraction, relationships (intimate or otherwise), etc and the general lack of resources-- or literally anything discussing these things.... i've noticed on multiple occasions over the years that there is no shortage of people who actively need, seek and / or desire such resources, discussion, sense of community, etc and yet, for some reason, those things have yet to take off or become more prevalent as i had hoped they would..... or perhaps i'm just missing it, which is a possibility, of course.

[@danieljennagrouse]

Frances Ayres danieljgrouse.tumblr.com/post/170206764105/our-culture-is-obsessed-with-romance-and-its

[@trex9822]

Oh wow I stumbled across this at exactly the right time! I'm finding the split attraction model getting in the way rn even though it was very helpful when I first discovered asexuality a few years ago (turning 27 this year). It helped answer a lot of questions I'd had since I was probably about 13-14. I was so happy & relieved to finally have the ace label and be able to get out from under the weight of heteronormativity & the expectation that one day I would be married to a man & have sex with him bc that's "just what people do" etc etc. When discovering asexuality I also finally had the language to describe & explain my touch aversion & sex repulsion and knowing that I wasn't alone in these experiences was so validating! It was easy knowing immediately that ace accurately described me but I felt like if I didn't add a romantic orientation there would be an assumption that I'm aromantic which wouldn't be accurate. I knew I still felt some kind of attraction for people so after lots of reading & thinking I ended up settling on panromantic. I've been identifying as panromantic ace ever since which has been just fine but after an unpleasant experience a few weeks ago the romantic orientation question reared its head yet again. My brain hurts from all the thinking but finally, FINALLY, with some help from various posts in arospec tags on tumblr I realise it's my aesthetic attraction, the attraction I experience above all others, has been tripping me up. I've had it all tangled up with what I understood romantic attraction to be! Even though I've known for years that they were different forms of attraction I kept conflating them for some reason. Now I'm fairly confident that I *am* aromantic after all 😂 & I was considering changing my label on tumblr to ace without a romantic orientation but that annoying little voice piped up - "but then people will just assume you're romantic!" UGH we can't win!! 😤 Then I found this video & it was like you read my mind before I was even having these thoughts 😂 Thanks for sharing! EDIT: How could I forget to mention Black Panther!? 😱 I absolutely LOVE that film, probably my fave in the entire mcu tbh 🥳

[@ohtricaerontops4781]

Great points! Giving me more to think about. I think you're onto something.

[@thedeltaquadrant]

i remember watching this video when it came out and i was confused. i was not ready for it. now i get it and feel the same.

[@legitboring]

boi oh boi oh man oh damn... this is suuuuuch a difficult thing to tackle. Like... the specificity has started to get irksomely restrictive and it heavily revolves around other's assumptions and their need to police expression of experiences they've decided you haven't had. But man this is hard to unpack... I'm glad you're talking about it though cuz I've been in the process of turning a corner on understanding attraction but it's like one of those ever expanding hallways in horror films. I just... can't wrap my head entirely around it but I look forward to your future vids on this aaaaand black panther ^^

[@QueerAsCat]

"[understanding attraction]'s like one of those ever expanding hallways in horror films" yaaaasssssssss, exactly this. which is why i'm so glad to finally have the mental wherewithal to be #whatthefuckever about it and just observe things as they happen, because it's so much easier for me to do that than to do whatever the hell it was that i've been doing up until this point.

[@CaraWeston]

Your videos never seem too long to me. I appreciate them, thank you. Looking forward to your thoughts about Black Panther!

[@QueerAsCat]

thank you for watching, despite the length. :) as for Black Panther.... we'll see!

[@ace.of.space.]

i can definitely relate to the scrutinizing past experience(s) of some sort of attraction when trying to "figure out" my romantic orientation. and i only have one (1) data point. eventually though i came to the decision that my labels exist for present me and didn't need to account for my past experiences that were too entangled in issues of mental illness and such to even provide meaningful information about possible attraction. hence i choose to identify as aro ace. i must say i was never really aware of the amatonormativity in regards to orientation, likely since i don't really participate in ace communities, but hearing about it i am quite annoyed. i think it's the same feeling i have for all of my identities really, to some extent, being agender as well - i don't participate in this societal structure of gender/romance/sexuality and so i have to explicitly tell you that. i think i especially feel it with being agender, as having a label for my "gender identity" seems excessive when i feel like gender's just not a thing that applies to me. but in terms of aro and ace i think i do place more value in those labels because i suppose that while i disagree with the concepts of normative attraction, i also definitely do Not feel anything close to the things described as romance and sexual attraction attention in the normative models, and i do not want there to be any idea that i might feel any sort of attraction of that sort. but yeah labels are complicated and they should not be obligatory - i wish more people would understand that, because while i get how empowering having labels can be for someone, not having them can be freeing as well, and we should all just. chill and let people do what feels best without assuming anything outside what you specifically know.

[@QueerAsCat]

although our experiences differ in regards to some things, i couldn't agree more with what you've said. i know that i have come across (much more so in the past than in the present) people saying how they feel similarly to how you feel re: identifying as agender in that they don't feel entirely comfortable identifying as "asexual" when "sexuality" is something they feel that they do not have in the first place, making identifying as asexual feel kind of.... ironic or redundant to them. i definitely feel that way when it comes to romantic orientations, but when it comes to sexual orientation... as you said, i do not want there to be any assumption that i experience sexual attraction. hmm... food for thought in regards to why i feel one way about certain terms / identities but not the same way about others. thank you for watching and for sharing your thoughts. i really do appreciate it.

[@godsavethelolita]

Thank you so much for this video, because I feel pretty much exactly the same!

[@QueerAsCat]

thanks for watching and commenting. :)

[@Nhouah]

As a bi aro, or bi aroace but I tend to more identify as just bi aro, I understand where you're coming from because my bi identity is also not based on the dichotomy of romantic vs sexual attractions, and explaining it to people is exhausting because they assume I'm bisexual and aromantic most of the time or tell be it's impossible to be both bi and aro sometimes.

[@QueerAsCat]

exactly. i mean, i understand when those who are unfamiliar with the very concept of different types of attraction struggles to understand my bi ace identity, but when those who ought to be aware of the fact that sexual attraction and romantic attraction isn't all there is when it comes to sexuality make faulty assumptions or assertions.... sigh. thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. :)

[@arturia-leafgreen5127]

i would really enjoy seeing what you have to say about black panther (i watched it last week)

[@QueerAsCat]

...never expect people to actually want to see me talk about Black Panther. hmmm.... thank you for watching and commenting. :)

[@VioletEmerald]

This is a great video. ;) Thanks for sharing.

[@QueerAsCat]

thanks for watching and commenting. :)

[@Never_again_against_anyone]

The world is not perfect. I can understand one might be annoyed by some things. At the same time having found my labels - I am an agender aroace.- less than a year ago as the result of a realization process that only really started due to coincidences (I do not mean by this I ever really felt hetero cishet, I am more referring to self reflection.) and living in Germany that still lacks awareness for all the As completely, I do not find this ideal. Nobody should be pressured, but everyone using this labels adds a bit to awareness eventually and improves others chances to find their label.

[@dorothydiabetes]

WAKANDA FOREVER

[@QueerAsCat]

#wakandaforever ✊🏾

[@alienswillcomeAWC]

Hello, I discovered this channel quite recently. I watched this video, read the comments here and read your article on the split attraction model. I'm a white bisexual cis woman currently writing a fan-fiction and members of the main cast are a few gay POC and an ace guy, so I've been poking around on KZbin and all across the web looking for more information and anecdotes about these identities. I just wanted to say that I found this video a bit confusing and maybe if any other folks want to chat with me about this... I don't really understand the point of not identifying with a romantic term, aromantic included. I get the concept of amatonormativity and how that's damaging to how we think about relationships, romantic and sexual. But using an identifier that's outside romantic attraction, like bi ace, what does that mean? You touched on it a little bit when you said there's a blurry line between platonic and romantic relationships but I don't really understand the point of using a label for platonic(?) relationships. If the only reason is to take the romantic part out of the label and try to dismantle amatonormativity, I guess I don't see why that's necessary. Sorry if I sound snarky I just genuinely want to know why people identify that way.

[@1980rlquinn]

The first card linked in the video goes to an older one of Vesper's where they talk about different types of attraction. You may find what you're looking for with AmeliaAce or Ash Hardell who have both detailed the differences among various labels in the aro and ace communities. If you're interested in understanding the term "amatonormativity" better, I strongly suggest Elizabeth Brake's book, Minimizing Marriage, as she's the one who coined the term and goes into great detail about the rights and lack thereof among care units that don't fit the "traditional" one-man-one-woman model.

[@QueerAsCat]

i second @1980rlquinn's recommendation of checking out AmeliaAce's channel or Ash Hardell's ABC's of LGBT video series for the videos on asexuality and aromanticism for more information on some of the terms that i've used in this video. to answer you in brief, a person's sexuality involves more than just sexual attraction and romantic attraction; there are other types of attraction that one may experience towards someone else, including (but not limited to) aesthetic attraction, sexual attraction and / or platonic attraction. by removing the "-romantic" from "biromantic", i am not [just] trying to dismantle amatonormativity. i am intentionally not specifying in what way(s) i may experience attraction towards someone. i could be referring to aesthetic attraction, i could be referring to sensual attraction, i could be referring to any number of types of attraction with a single word, whereas "biromantic" is much more limiting and doesn't really say anything about any other ways in which you might experience attraction. i also want to point out that my usage of "platonic" is not exactly the same as its common usage in society at large, as the ace / aro community (/ies) have a history of using that term to refer to something that is different from what you may imagine 'platonic' to mean. it is a type of attraction that may involve a desire for intimacy / commitment that surpasses the level of intimacy / commitment that one may have with one's friends, while simultaneously not being "romantic" in nature.... i guess it could be referred to as a type of emotional attraction? then again, so could romantic attraction..... but the two are seen as different things.

[@alexn.2901]

DO A VIDEO ABOUT BALK PANTHER !!! PLEASE!!!

[@QueerAsCat]

thinking about it, thinking about it.....! so much pressure, though, when people actually want to hear what i have to say lol...

[@WolfMoonWings]

Hmmm I understand where you’re coming from because I’m demisexual and I’m only going off one data point. 😂 So I don’t have a romantic orientation. If I had to guess I’d say polyromantic but idk. ALSO HELL YESS BLACK PANTHER

[@QueerAsCat]

it really is hard trying to come to any sort of conclusion about your own experiences when there isn't even enough data to establish a pattern, eh? sigh! re: Black Panther...... i didn't expect anyone to actually want me to make a video about BP-- ahhhhhhhh lol

[@FueledByHufflepuff]

its nearly impossible to separate a non-platonic/‘romantic’ attraction apart from one’s sexuality. one can have little to no sex drive, but their attraction to a person is still an expression of their sexuality, if that makes sense. i dont agree with the split attraction model at all, but i commend you for no longer needing to label your identity in terms of a ‘romantic’ orientation.

[@QueerAsCat]

perhaps i've misunderstood your comment, but no one is trying to separate anything *from* their sexuality. rather, it's sexuality itself (as complex as i'm sure we both agree that it is) that is being referred to when one speaks of romantic attraction and any other type of attraction. it's these multiple types of attraction that intertwine and interact with each other to make up what we more commonly refer to simply as "sexuality". anyway, sorry. don't mean to talk your ear off about something that you don't agree with.... i don't agree that it's nearly impossible to distinguish between different types of attraction, but to each their own. thanks for watching and commenting. :)

[@FueledByHufflepuff]

QueerAsCat no worries. to me, it just seems redundant to describe different faucets of one’s sexuality/different types of attraction. its as if i would go around asserting to both potential partners and ppl i dont see romantically or sexually that i not only am i interested in women romantically, let me also assert that i am interested in them sexually, when 9 times out of 10 that is what being attracted to a certain person or gender altogether entails. it will vary from person to person, bc one’s sex drive or romantic interests will vary; just simply something that would organically be touched on if need be in relation to getting to know someone in a non-platonic way and vice versa, so why should one describe all of these aspects of their sexuality to others when it isn’t relevant to the other person(s) (if you aren’t interestedly in them romantically or sexually)?

[@mekabare]

I think the distinction is being made, because in our society where being sexual and romantic is expected of everyone, and almost every person that meets you expects you to date the same gender you're attracted to sexually. In most cases, people assume their experience to be the one everyone else has. The media, other people etc always teach society the image of the straight person whose sexual and romantic orientation OF COURSE are the same thing, theyre one thing. Most people I've met cant understand that my sexual orientation does not align with romantic and emotional attractions. So people who use the split attraction mode do it to distance themselves from that assumption.

[@FueledByHufflepuff]

mido my point is, ppl are going to make assumptions no matter what in almost every faucet of one’s personality, life, opinions, etc etc and that describing one’s sexual or romantic proclivities or lack thereof should only matter when someone is considering getting into a sexual or romantic situation or relationship or to inform and decline someone who shows interest that cannot be reciprocated. EDIT: there are and always will be ppl who assume i am straight or bisexual and i cant live my life getting too hung up about it. just clarify things with ppl if you feel the need to, but you shouldn’t have to outline every aspect of your sexuality in order to inform ppl who have little importance in your life. if they ask about your sexuality and you want to share that with them, great. but ultimately i dont like how the queer community kind of puts pressure on individuals to try to inform everyone every aspect of their sexuality when its unnecessary.

[@mekabare]

I think you should leave it to the people who find comfort in being able to describe their feelings and share them with others whether its pointless or not to use said labels and make such distinctions. With your logic no one should use the label gay or straight either, because everyone is going to assume you straight anyway. Or its pointless to mention your gender online, because people will assume a gender one way or another. But would you feel comfortale if people kept assuming you're a man? Its fine if you don't need labels, but there's people who do. Some people are fine not disclosing any information about themselves, others are.