Quad Anchors | Everything You Need to Know

[@uvdpuqhcpenfyalf]

This is the best video on the anchors I've found. The amount of free information you give out in these videos is amazing. This channel should have more subscribers!

[@summitseekersexperience]

Thanks!!! Hopefully it gets some more!

[@ukaszdziubka4216]

@@summitseekersexperience Absolutely true - I've just subscribed. Keep the good work and all the best to you! Greetings from Poland!

[@ignacioperez3768]

Love the info you’re putting out and how you present it! On a side note I really appreciate the improvements you’ve made on your videos as far audio and camera angles, keep it up!

[@summitseekersexperience]

Thanks, Been really working on upping the production value.

[@captainzidgel7598]

In what situation would you prefer a cordalette over a sling for building a toprope quad? Overhangs/situations where the sling is likely to drag over rough rock? How much abuse can the sling actually stand up to in that situation? Asking because I would prefer a sling over a cordalette so I don't have to tie a double fishermans but is it completely safe for a big party running laps and dragging the sling over rock?

[@FallLineJP]

Thank you for a very informative video! And thanks for dispelling the "clip 3-1" concept. The way I've heard it explained is that 3 strands are stronger than 2 if you're using thin material for your quad. This seems silly to me since in a failure of one side now you're left hanging on 1 strand of material *that you didn't trust would hold you with 2 strands*. Seems to me you should just use 2 strands and make sure the material is strong enough.

[@summitseekersexperience]

Glad it was helpful!

[@alesflidr8318]

This channel is really informative! Thanks a lot for all the hard work you put in the videos. :-)

[@summitseekersexperience]

for sure

[@timothykoch5463]

Really appreciate all of the informative info in your videos!

[@summitseekersexperience]

for sure!!

[@honeybee9446]

Hi Jason, in your video about anchor systems some time ago, you did clip carabiners to 3 strands, now it is 2 strands. I see why, I just wonder if anything changed in the meantime since your previous video. I have also maybe other question not related to this video, but it is related to top rope anchor. If you have only one rope outside and want to setup top rope anchor if there are no bolts on the top (there is for example a strong tree on the top of the rock) can you use slings and connect multiple slings to get over the edge and setup carabiners there? If so, is there a way how to connect multiple slings and if it is better to use 1 or 2 carabiners to connect each sling, or it is not a good idea at all? Maybe a stupid question but I would like to know from someone more experienced as I have not found much info about it. What I can think of is, that it would probably not be redundant and if one sling fails, you would fall down. Thank you.

[@summitseekersexperience]

Good questions. Thanks for pointing out the previous video. I'd say the three strands is obsolete. Way back when I learned rock climbing, 3/1 was kind of the standard but recently this 2/2 strategy is most recommended. Maybe I'll do an updated video for the top rope anchor one. In regards to your sling question, it's not good to have slings on slings typically because the force can become very acute, so I'd suggest connecting them with carabiners rather than like a girth hitch or something. I would NOT recommend any setup you described that is not fully redundant. I will give you this advice: I used to try and come up ways to make anchors with bits and pieces rather than get an extra rope... the conclusion I came to was it was a bad idea because there are too many components. Just get a static line or some solid cordage to make the setup you need. Saves you time and peace of mind later down the road.

[@honeybee9446]

@@summitseekersexperience Thank you for your reply and also opinion. Yeah I've been thinking about one static line for this kind of situation, guess I will buy one. Looking forward to your next video :)

[@ansk90]

I learnt so much for your videos, Jason. Thank you!

[@MG-ct9zf]

Big fan of your videos and have been a follower for a while. The belt buckle should have a YT channel of its own, it's just not fair that you two have to share the same screen.

[@rangertommy]

Love your videos, and watch pretty much all of them. As long as I've been climbing (since 1975), I still love learning new approaches. A quick technical question on this video: given the wear that is often present on rap rings, would it not be a bit more prudent to clip the draws into the bolts themselves?

[@JFalke95]

Your videos are GOATED man keep it up

[@montecristo2748]

Awesome video. Just want to address the claim of 'sling with break at 40kn'. This is only true when using the sling in a straight/sliding X configuration. Tying knots to form the quad anchor reduces that break strength by half, which the HowNot2 video explains. Just be aware what your final anchor configuration will be and what that does to the break strength.

[@Botconan]

Would you judge the same anchor but with a 120cm sling unsafe ? As it this not doubled? I considered that the sling would not be the weak element of the safety chain...

[@ambientdreamwaves]

Which locking carabiners would you recommend using for the master point of a quad anchor? I'm assuming a larger pear shaped HMS carabiner? Could you name a few models you have used in that past that you prefer? Thanks so much for these videos Jason. Sending my first lead climb and hopefully multipitch climb in Rumney NH this weekend, super exited!

[@summitseekersexperience]

Sick dude, two big milestones. For HMS Carabiners, I think Trangos are pretty good. I also have black diamond ones and mad rock.

[@gagetaylor7013]

Thank you again for these so much appreciated! Your the best ☝️🏆🙌🏼

[@noahswanson9634]

Do you have to use a 240cm with this or can you use two 120cm joined by the overhand knots?

[@summitseekersexperience]

I actually meant to include that you could use two 120s joined as you said but forgot. yeah for sure.

[@johnmartin4427]

Great video! Answered a lot of questions.

[@bluetaylor7614]

Appreciate how much information he puts in.

[@DanielJVickers]

On my top rope quads, I usually use a third strand with a magic x so that in an anchor failure, you still get at least two strands on either side. Any reason you wouldn’t do that and just clip two directly?

[@summitseekersexperience]

Only reason I can think that the two directly would be preferred over that is less friction which will help the carabiners stay equalized. From what you are describing, it sounds like you have two strands normally clipped and then also a magic X for a total of three strands with a loop which sounds like it starts to violate the second E in the SERENE acronym. Probably works fine, I've just never seen it done that way and my guess is based on the marginal reasons just listed.

[@DanielJVickers]

@@summitseekersexperience I guess if you think the extra friction is really enough to prevent proper equalization, then it is a trade off between equalization and strength. I would be surprised if it didn't still equalize though, since we don't consider that for a normal magic x or even a triple magic x.

[@summitseekersexperience]

@@DanielJVickers I'm sure it'll work... you just may get some funny looks as it is not a traditional set-up. Something to keep in mind as you progress in the AMGA track.

[@jamalpearce15]

This guy doesn't miss

[@treyhedrick7934]

Can you top rope from a quad anchor set up with slings? I see a lot of quads with dynamic rope.

[@EricTheDane]

Great video. I see someone else asked about sliding X, which I prefer for top rope. I see you didn't add the link to the HowNot2 quad testing (I'm curious). Lastly, once I saw how you were tied in I couldn't not focus on it, lol.

[@summitseekersexperience]

Thanks for the comment. Link to testing has been added in the description. I tied into the anchor with a clove hitch on a locker.

[@EricTheDane]

@@summitseekersexperience Thanks for the link! (Tied to your harness at 11:00 with bowline to the belay loop, no yosemite or other finish. :) All good for demo, not the point, just triggered the OCD in me.)

[@summitseekersexperience]

@@EricTheDane ​ @Eric For sure, yeah, was just doing a quickie... i would NEVER climb with that knot

[@olivertasnadi1905]

Thank you for all the good info!

[@eubede]

Hi, just one question - can I use two 120cm slings instead of one 240cm?

[@nicolaibatstad6881]

Yes

[@johnluongo1774]

That belt buckle tho (it’s glorious)!

[@deeann2597]

Thanks Jason for all your videos! I'm a beginner climber and starting with top rope outdoors. I've researched several carabiners and would like a second opinion before buying any. I'm thinking of going with 8 of the Grivel Mega HMS screw gates for my anchors and PAS and 6 of the Grivel alpha screw gates. My only hesitations are there aren't a lot of reviews for these carabiners and the Mega HMS is only rated for 21kN, when the gate is closed, as opposed to higher forces from other brands. In your opinion would these be safe to start with or should I consider another brand/model of carabiners?

[@summitseekersexperience]

Hi There! Thanks for checking out the videos. I'd be interested to understand why you are choosing Grivel as this is not a typical company one considers buying carabiners from. That said, short answer is those carabiners will be fine. Their crossload is still 6/7 kN. I'm not really worried about ever exceeding the normal 20+kN load as something else will break long before that. So from a safety perspective you are definitely fine.

[@deeann2597]

@@summitseekersexperience Thanks for quickly replying! The main reason I'm considering Grivel is because their carabiners are the lowest cost with my outdoor discounts. I wouldn't typically base my decision for safety equipment on cost, but a guide I trust suggested getting climbing equipment that's on sale since I'm starting out to figure out what I like then transition into more expensive gear.

[@summitseekersexperience]

@@deeann2597 cool, yeah, you should be good to go with that equipment.

[@WayLifeWorks99]

Hello! Thanks so much for these videos, they’re super informative. One question- what is best practice for how to clip in the carabiners? I notice at some points in the video you have the two at the bolt facing the same direction- I thought it was best to clip them such that the spines are facing inwards?

[@SebastienDegardin]

Anything against doing the quad with nylon slings? Except the big knots of course. Thanks

[@summitseekersexperience]

I used nylon slings all the time!

[@Charleskallin]

Can any size (width) sling be used? Thanks for all the great vids!

[@davidgoldsmith2904]

Thinking about quick draws and how one end is "up" for connecting to the metal hanger (which may cause nicks in the carabiner) and one end is "down" for the rope only so it remains smooth ... would you want dedicated carabiners for attaching the quad to the bolts and other carabiners for using at the master point for the top rope? The carabiners may be different anyways (offset D versus HMS Pear) but I was just thinking that 4 like carabiners for a quad setup might be problematic over time - unless there are some markings applied to distinguish them? Or am I over thinking it? Thanks.

[@summitseekersexperience]

Likely over thinking. I doubt you would get nicks on carabiners for anchors as they are not typically shock loaded. I haven't found that to be an issue. On quickdraws... obviously you need to choose a dedicated color to go on the gear vs. the rope. most people do "gray on gear"

[@chhe5433]

Such great information!

[@summitseekersexperience]

Thanks!!!

[@andremaradei2500]

Very good video! Thanks for that!

[@marcelorofer]

Awesome video, thanks!

[@summitseekersexperience]

For sure!!!

[@thefourthbrotherkaramazov245]

Awesome video

[@summitseekersexperience]

Thanks!!

[@jeffreyschmidt3997]

Jason, if the opposing lockers are both on the same two strands of the master point and those two strands break, haven't you lost the redundancy we want? Thanks for clarifying!

[@summitseekersexperience]

The two strands by definition is redundant. If one strand breaks, you have the other, if both strands break, then something crazy happened that caused both your primary and redundant strands to break which I've not seen in climbing.

[@jeffreyschmidt3997]

@@summitseekersexperience ah, touche! I guess I was starting to think of the two strands as one since with the quad there is a pair of two strands. Good to know you've not heard of both strands breaking. Thanks for the speedy replies! Wishing you more followers, as your content deserves it :)

[@summitseekersexperience]

@@jeffreyschmidt3997 For sure!! and Thanks!

[@harrisonkunkle]

Hello Jason, can you belay from the quad anchors with a locking carabiner and a gri gri above the two over hand knots in the shelf of the anchor? positionally, I think it feels much more comfortable in the belay with a grigri sitting a foot or so above my waist while belaying from the top? I understand that there are two equalized master points but can the other two pairs of rope beyond the the master points accommodate gear for big walling such portaledge s and haul bags? Or does the bigg wall gear have dedicated anchors separate from the climbing parties anchor on a multi day climb?

[@summitseekersexperience]

No, you should belay where I showed in the video. Above would not be advisable due to shock load potential

[@fadman18]

If you are setting this up for top roping, why only utilize 2 of the 4 strands? Doesn't that take out a lot of redundancy in the system? I get the pinch point thing you said, but that seems like less of an issue than not using all 4 strands?

[@summitseekersexperience]

If you use all four strands you lose redundancy, what happens in that case if one carabiner fails that's on one of the anchor points.

[@davidmagallanes8770]

Loved the video! So informative. This might be a dumb question but to “extend” your anchor would you just buy a longer sling? Say for example the anchors were 5-10 ft from the edge?

[@summitseekersexperience]

No, if you needed to extend you could do it with the climbing rope: Put a carabiner on the master point. Munter into the master point Belay yourself on the munter down to where you want to me Pull enough extra rope through the munter to tie a bhk (overhand knot with both climber and follower strand) Bhk is your master point.

[@gravv2949]

so i see you used a 240cm sling. would a 120cm or 180cm work just as well?

[@summitseekersexperience]

180 will… you would have to stack 2 x 120 to use those

[@thomascee]

I just spotted something! Are you using the Wild Country Mosquito harness? I love that harness! It's the one I use. Why does nobody talk about Wild Country? A company that has been around for decades with their trad gear, but they seem to be consistently overshadowed by the large names :( Do you know what the deal is? If that was not your harness and I just said that all for nothing I apologize :) Great content thanks!

[@summitseekersexperience]

Yeah, I use a mosquito mostly for indoor climbing. SUPER LIGHT. love using it. I also use wild country cams and nuts. Not sure why nobody talks about them, although I have several peers that have their cams as well.

[@thomascee]

@@summitseekersexperience Nice me too! I love the Mosquito harness. It's amazing. TOTALLY agree on the cams and nuts, I don't know why nobody talks about Wild Country and their products either. As I start building out my rack I was going to start with the smaller Wild Country cams and start adding to the set from there. That's what I was thinking anyway. Scanning your channel to see if you've done reviews or explanations on the various Friends. Thanks for the content!

[@summitseekersexperience]

@@thomascee NIce... I'm on my second set of Friends as I've used them for years now. Definitely holds up, even on big stuff. My buddy loves Black Diamond so we might do a "compare and contrast" video at some point.

[@thomascee]

@@summitseekersexperience A “Compare and contrast” video would be super cool. I love going off the beaten trail with products, and it’s also bonus if they are made in USA or just at least not China. Think WC at one point was American made. Not sure if they are anymore. Lots of fun stuff to research. Thanks for all your epic video content 🙏🏽👌🏽🙏🏽

[@summitseekersexperience]

@@thomascee For sure, FYI, WC is UK and started in 1977... they made the first "cam" which was a Friend at the time.

[@kippcharlton3651]

do you use a magic x when you just have two strands?

[@summitseekersexperience]

Correct, magic X would be typically done with a 120 cm sling with an overhand on each side and one of the two strands making the loop and the other just flat.

[@jeffreyschmidt3997]

@@summitseekersexperience when would you use the magic x on a 120 as opposed to a quad anchor? Thanks Jason!

[@summitseekersexperience]

@@jeffreyschmidt3997 Basically if I didn't have my quad pre-rigged and I was in a hurry OR (which happens to me all the time) I forgot to get my quad back from my partner from the last pitch and only had a 120 handy.

[@jeffreyschmidt3997]

@@summitseekersexperience got it. So a little less strong and redundant but makes up for it slightly by how speedy it is to setup.

[@summitseekersexperience]

@@jeffreyschmidt3997 It's still fully redundant and can hold 20 kN so I'd say you are pretty good. The main disadvantage of the magic x vs the quad is the quad has so much more "real estate" for a master point.

[@IMDNME]

Thank you for this vid!!

[@bobs-nq8wr]

hey! i like your harness ... is that a BD Technician ? thanks for all the very informational videos :)

[@summitseekersexperience]

Wild County Mosquitoe

[@FourT6and22]

When you use only two strands for your master, sure you have two strands holding you if the anchor fails ABOVE one of the limiting knots. But if the anchor fails below a knot, your entire system fails. Kind of negates the purpose of a redundant system. That's why people tend to clip a biner to two strands and another biner to the other two strands. I understand the issue of possible binding. Just gotta pick your poison I guess. If you use cordalette instead of a sling, you decrease the chance of binding. In all the testing of quads I've seen, they tend to fail below one of the knots. So it's best not to put all your eggs in one basket. I've never seen anybody put both carabiners on the same two strands and then leave the other two with nothing to do. 3 and 1, or 2 and 2. But never 2 and 0. Using only 2 would be fine for your own personal anchor while on multipitch and then using the other two to bring up your second.

[@summitseekersexperience]

Interesting... I may consider when utilizing for top rope to do 3 / 1

[@bot_mod5109]

Clove below, connect adjust the shelf?

[@FourT6and22]

@@bot_mod5109 On a typical single-knot anchor, sure. But if you're using a quad, you don't need to use the shelf since you already have multiple placements, but you could if you wanted to I guess.

[@_ShaDynasty]

I was taught to place locking carabineers on each of the two strands, opposing directions.

[@summitseekersexperience]

So if one strand breaks you lose redundancy in both strands and carabiners???

[@ahmetmacitsahin8474]

Thank you for the video

[@markus717]

FUN FACT: Our guide's name, Schmalz, is 'LARD' in English. Named back when saturated fat was a GOOD thing. (Actually, it still is but you'd have to see Dr Ekberg's videos to know why.)

[@punzasteel]

Trying to recreate the carabiners pinching as described around the 4:00 mark-- aside from holding the carabiners together like in this video, I cant recreate it. Any thoughts? kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3LPpXqjfr93nbc

[@ivanpaskalev9863]

Great! Thanks a lot

[@MattCookOregon]

This is great.

[@DVMCellini]

reminds me of your presentation for class president

[@summitseekersexperience]

pffff

[@MaxMansfield]

You’re the man

[@Familybonnds]

Awesome. The edible seems to have kicked in 1/3 into the vid.

[@danielsunnerek3050]

The quad became the hex

[@noodlesthe1st]

I thought it's called a quad anchor because it has 4 strands. But then you called the 6 strand a 6 strand quad. I would've expected to call it a sex anchor. I like this name better.

[@steventhaw3765]

A knot weakens Dyneema by 70% ! Refer to Ryan Jenks videos.

[@W0RLDP34CE]

There are pull test vids on KZbin with dynema quad and was still strong enough for me (and stronger than 6mm cord)