Quake II: Ground Zero is NOT a Quake Game

[@jond6666]

>drops 3 banger vids on Quake 2 >doesn't elaborate >leaves What a chad

[@papayer]

18:15 I was hoping you'd bring up the dickishly placed, tiny instakill laser beam you need to be psychic in order to know is there.

[@myself8354]

The rocket turrets are the biggest annoyance to me. More specifically thier placement. Having them right around corners or just behind doorways is beyond bullshit as it's very tedious taking them out without getting hit. But then you also have rooms where they are basically worthless because they are positioned far away where you have plenty of time to dodge the rocket and take them out. I think the most optimal placement for these is medium range. Where they are close enough for the rockets to be a real threat but not so close that taking them out becomes a pain in the ass. Also fun fact, during my playthrough of ground zero the rail gun was basically my anti turret gun since it one shots them.

[@chocolatefitzgerald5692]

Hello! Me again. I'm gonna watch the video this time, but first I'd like to say that what I really enjoy about Ground Zero is the fact that I had to take it far more like I'm playing Quake II on a tactical level rather than a boomer-shooter type of level. I'd play it on the original time and time again on Hard+ and I fully know everyone's frustration, but I can't help but love all of these atrocities of curveballs it throws at me. Rogue Entertainment went and decided to make you think about what you are doing. The new weapons they'd given you work very well in that regard since the Proximity Launcher and the ETF Rifle are amazing examples of using corners to your advantage (at least in the original Quake II since all projectiles came out from the barrels of the guns) among teaching you how to apply different tactics for taking down enemies, and yet it was still an action packed Quake II expansion which allowed itself to play as straight to an action game as possible during some segments (areas with the disgustingly overpowered Beta Class medics being a clear example as you need to get in and eliminate such a high value target as quickly as possible or you'd be overrun with its spawned enemies). I found it a bit of a shame that Nightdive Studios turned it into yet another expansion pack, removed Quake II's innate barrel-spewed projectiles and made Ground Zero lose its tactical feel since they had to ground (no pun intended) all of the campaigns into one, functional, remastered gameplay loop for ease of porting. All in all, and as a TL;DR: I love Ground Zero. Ballbuster but fun TactiQuake II game. P.S: The Reckoning is still way better than you think it is (still gotta watch that video)!

[@Canada407]

Wondering where you went. Glad your back after 5 months!

[@hebonky]

Now for Machine Game's expansion I guess.

[@INFILTR8US]

It's AAA quality

[@AnisterStarlight]

And Quake 2 64

[@jackmcmorrow9397]

Call of the Machine is peak Quake 2

[@seamusobrian9050]

Id love to see you talk about the call of the machine campaign i honestly want machine games to just make a campaign for every retro shooter or just make their own

[@MikeReiner]

The worst thing about The Reckoning is realizing that things get even worse when you move on to Ground Zero.

[@jakubdabrowski3846]

"If the planet was glassed, we've never have got the adventures of Rhino Squad" - I had exact same thoughts, but finally assumed that Quake 4 happened BEFORE Ground Zero. Do you think we will see the final act of human vs strogg war in Quake 6?

[@RegalRoyalWasTaken]

aint no way we're calling quake champions quake 5 ...oh god we are arent we

[@CatsOverdrive]

@@RegalRoyalWasTaken wait, why? Quake Champions is "Quake 6"...but if that's a metric for a sequel. Then should "Quake Live" be counted too? And what about "Quake Wars"? That has more in line with the Strogg story than Quake Champions has...

[@RegalRoyalWasTaken]

@@CatsOverdrive Im gonna be honest i forgot those existed

[@CatsOverdrive]

@@RegalRoyalWasTaken and OP comment too, from the looks of it. I'm just pointing out how utterly disjointed this "franchise" is(remember, Quake Arena IS "Quake III"). I seriously doubt that, if ever, idsoftware worked on a new quake game, and that's a big IF, that they would go with numbering the games again. I mostly think they'd do a Doom 2016 and settle with just "Quake".

[@RegalRoyalWasTaken]

@@CatsOverdrive Or maybe some kind of subtitle? Iunno.

[@plagueseer]

I loved all the DLCs imo it’s all military tactical survival combat. It wavers between strategies instead of allowing a one sized fits all approach. Switching between aggressive push forward combat and slow tactical cornering and retreating is what I like about it

[@briankaler6147]

Quake 2 had arenas?? Since when?

[@KevofThes]

I disagree. Ground Zero is as close to Quake II as you can get. What makes it feel slightly different is its "Grounded" elemental theme. But it gets basically everything right regarding that classic Quake 2 feel. Its the perfect successor. Ground Zero's difficulty curve does a great job of making you feel like you need to survive throughout the course of the game. And is actually rewarding with actually interesting bosses. The level designs and enemy placements are spectacular. The Warehouse units specifically are phenomenal. While Torrents are an annoyance, the remaster immobilized theme.

[@brainchamber99]

Ground Zero is a terrible experience for first time players. Too many 'gotcha' traps and getting paranoid for literally every corner you turn. It's unintuitive and puts lots of unnecessary stress on the player. I beat GZ on Nightmare in a couple of days. I will have less of a hard time beating it again because I'm more familiar with it, but I will never ever play it again. It's trash design

[@KevofThes]

@@brainchamber99 you definitely have a point that GZ has a serious difficulty curve. Command Center and Logistics Complex are dreadful units but it's called 'Ground Zero' for a reason. The player is put into an intensive situation the game accurately executes. The expansion isn't for anyone. You may not like it but it isn't a bad expansion by any means. It just wants to challenge you.

[@Lt_Voss]

​@KevofThes That's how I felt as well. Honestly, if I can say something sacrilegious, I'd liken Ground Zero's relation to Quake II with Doom Eternal's relation to Doom 2016. Despite visual similarities, they play differently enough to be more than just a level pack; as Max0r puts it, "A games journalist could beat the first half [of 2016], which is unacceptable." Eternal's more fast paced, frantic, has more enemies that require a little more thought than "shoot at it until it dies", and tried to take the story into a more fleshed out, branched narrative of 2016. Not to mention the new enemies and weapons and abilities and stuff. Similarly, Civvie11 calls Quake II a power fantasy (slightly derogatory referring to his opinion that II was much easier than Quake). I can agree with that assessment. GZ however I feel tries to still make the player feel powerful, with all the new toys you get, with higher enemy density that you can theoretically mow down in droves, while also giving a feel that you are in the thick of it, in deep shite, and you really are the underdog clawing through every in of the environments to survive and progress. That's not even mentioning the (attempt) of trying to make the game a little more "tactical" with more environmental triggers and objectives which, Quake II had, but while all of act 1 and most of act 2 were "kill everything, get a key, open door to progress, GZ at least on the surface tries to give you more "do this thing to get the environment to change in this way so you can progress" or "grab this thing, do that to it, then take it over there to progress". Engine limitations aside, I can see what Rogue was trying to do, and I applaud them for it. I think the biggest issue was that Quake II was, as stated before, a power fantasy, and GZ tempered that feeling, and that might have impacted perception of the game. Casual reminder to how Rogue also made Strife, so they knew they could make FPS/RPG hybrids, story objectives, and at the time never before seen mechanics (regardless of their success in doing so), so I feel if maybe Rogue had a little more to work with GZ wouldn't have been panned nearly as badly as it was. But this is me not really knowing how to get my thoughts across, so feel free to ignore my silly rambling.

[@TheIDCh]

You came out of nowhere and did 3 videos on my MOST FAVORITE game ever (Quake 2, I played it on my dad's colleague's work PC in the office of a railroad company building, adjacent to train repair and maintenance depots. You can imagine - exiting the office building, I visited depots, rooms, saw machinery, instruments, crates and all that resembled all the stuff I saw in Quake 2. Also, even the office building had an fuel oil smell which added to the overall atmosphere of the game.). I wish you all the best and hope to hear from your channel soon!

[@jackmcmorrow9397]

If Reckoning is the Quake II version of Plutonia, THIS is Quake II's Extreme ROTT.

[@kettenfaust]

I enjoyed Q2 and all it's mission packs. I didn't know ppl hate on it cause it's too difficult. Btw you can just map the items to any key you want. The update to Quake 2 makes pretty much everything easier, other than maybe the jumping Berserkers. I finished it all on hard, and enjoyed it. No shame in playing on an easier difficulty. We are pretty spoiled nowadays. In 98' you had a while to reload. With modern PCs it's instant. Was a fun watch and I like the editing.

[@Andros2709]

I love both official Mission Packs too, especially since I played them after having suffered through a real stinker like Juggernaut.

[@halster585]

Don’t hate this add on to this game…I beat this when I was 12 on my parents pentium II…loved it more than Quake II itself…

[@aranerem5569]

Have you played the game Dusk? Would that be fun to talk about?

[@AnisterStarlight]

I wonder what you'll touch upon next. Call of the Machine or Quake 2 64?

[@wiggytommy8607]

I know you’re probably going to move on to the console ports for Quake II or Call of the Machine next, but is there any chance that you’ll review the unofficial (though commercially released) expansions like Juggernaut, Oblivion, or Zaero in the future?

[@1thevm1]

I like how the expansion tried to nerf the power shield. How did they do that? Simple, they just don't give it to you until the end of the game 😂 Also the final boss is a smart cookie. She has a gentlemanly agreement to only use powerups when you do, so if you pop an invul, she will do so too, so you're stuck staring at each other for 30 seconds like dummies 😂And it's also a great way to screw over any hoarders who have been saving their best powerups for last, how evil of them.

[@RegalRoyalWasTaken]

that's so good lmfao just like "...so uh, how've ya been?"

[@atifarshad7624]

I feel like Rogue knew the problems and what made Quake 2 too easy, but "over corrected" them by introducing b.s. elements like the turrets, no power shield at all or the final boss being also boosted by the powerups.

[@EMB3D]

i was listening to you, and found the bug in my f**ing vulkan renderer, thank you

[@MegaTominator]

Ground Zero always felt like a complete chore to play through especially with those OG turrets. Are you going to cover Call of the Machine next? Or are you moving to something else? Great vids as always!

[@masterjediarcade]

Thanks! What would YOU like to see next?

[@nephatrine]

@@masterjediarcade Call of the Machine would be rad.

[@MegaTominator]

​@masterjediarcade It would be great to see your take on Call of the Machine! Also it be cool to see you do the original Quake and its mission packs at some point

[@cropathfinder]

Great to see another one of these tho imo i think u were a bit overly cruel towards GZ with the intro. I think it does stumble and has its issues namely the mid levels , some weapons (tho remaster addressed it in part) but it also has highlights like some of the enemy usage, the secret levels,etc

[@masterjediarcade]

Agreed, lots to cover and that's why we ended up over 40 mins!

[@nolifereview]

This game really, REALLY overdid it with the turrets. If I had known that they were nerfed in the remaster, I would have just played that instead of the original game. It felt like the entire design of the game was ruined by the turrets, to the point where it was straight-up not fun having to check every single corner and ceiling. Also hard to do whenever they spawn in behind you. The only reason I will ever play Ground Zero again is to get the Steam achievement, whenever I feel like putting myself through that again.

[@R17inator]

I remember one steam review in the pre-remaster days describing this expansion as "turning the game into a tactical shooter". I have a friend who likes tactical shooters a lot, so I am curious to see if he will actually like this experience where the majority of us boom-shoot enjoyers find it very frustrating.

[@Wodgedev]

THERAPY

[@Fedorchik1536]

Never played this mission pack. But I had it installed on our school PCs and we played it's multiplayer. It has a revamped q2dm1 map with nailgun and plasma beam added. it was a lot of fun.

[@dontcallmechris8677]

Y’all seriously underestimated the Tesla mines, they provide a great area of effect, throw a few down and get wailing, no enemies will fight back

[@armandoperez5457]

Funny, stood with this video right after finishing Ground Zero on the Remaster... I love this video, tedious is the word I would use to describe this expansion. On a side note, having grown up with the PS1 port you cannot imagine my surprise and confussion on finding that the cutscenes from the port are actually the ones from GZ. Making the PS1 port: a mash of levels from the 64 and PC version plus the cutscenes from GZ but not being GZ at all.. I find this amusing to my inner child haha

[@andreypashentsev2118]

Finally u're back dude! I'm pleased to see someone hates this dumb expansion as much as i do. Looking forward to Call of the Machine next :)

[@l0os176]

Excellent video man! While I did/do enjoy the Quake 2 games, I honestly think I like these videos more! Fun to hear the "passion" put into playing some of the bit more obscure stuff. I think your channel is going to go far

[@masterjediarcade]

Thanks! I'm glad you're enjoying them

[@francocentrone197]

you're alive 😭I've been looking forward to this. will watch it after work and edit this afterwards!

[@TheMagistrium]

100% agree on the secret level,best level in the GZ game.(really short tho)

[@AndroidFerret]

KZbin hates small creators.. especially us with retro games and mods.

[@Barkerbg001]

Wonder what you think of call of the machine

[@evillecaston]

Ground Zero is entirely antithetical to Quake 2, as its design veers into outright hostility. Even with Nightdive's fixes (which the base game and even The Reckoning hardly needed), it's below mid at best. I can't believe this was from the same studio as Strife and Quake 1's expansion, Dissolution of Eternity.

[@crazyblade80]

Stubbled on your channel when I wanted to see how long these expansions were. Really am enjoying the content, got my sub lol

[@SleeperJohns]

Of course aficionado is not you, it's me! And everyone like me! I hated Ground Zero when I first played it, you can blame the turrets! But now it's TOO easy after I no-lifed the mission pack when first acquiring it before the rerelease! And it's even easier in the rerelease, because they nerfed the turrets!!! But in exchange, I guess, to give all the animations, including the cut ones, and Ground Zero ones to the original enemies we know on all difficulties. It's probably not how it really went in the KEX port release, but, fuck it, it feels that way. Also, "bind 'key' "use 'nameweapon'" in console would have worked in your YamagiQ2 Ground Zero frustrations. But I guess, if you're not a console power user, you won't use that or even think about it.

[@Franku_4]

Have you played the Call of the Machine? Did you like it? I thought the secret challenge rooms were mostly fun, and the less quake2 - like maps were all interesting. I'm not sure it was a good idea to try to link the lore of q1 and q2 but still I mostly enjoyed the ride.

[@ВасилийМорозов-л7х]

29:04 Well, they *are* round.

[@exiledsoul87]

I wanted to love this expansion but i couldnt enjoy it without an turret around the corner every 3 frickin seconds

[@fatality9206]

I really hate Ground Zero...

[@StroggKingu]

Why specifically?

[@AnisterStarlight]

​​@@StroggKingu Maybe because of difficulty.

[@miroslavzima8856]

Hoho, nice! I´ve seen your Reckoning review two days ago and was wondering when next one comes out! Are you going for other classics? Like first Quake + expansions or Half-Life + expansions? Call me heretic, but I enjoyed Quake 4 much more than original Quake 2; while Q2 was oldie, but goodie (personal story: When I started my gaming, I didn´t know about rewritable discs and my friend gave me Q2 on RW and I managed to destroy it; vacuum cleaner hose fell on it. I was nearly in tears when I told him next day what happened. He laughed and brought me new next day. Don´t pirate games, kids! Or maybe do, this would be costly mistake if it was original! That would around 60 EU. Well, but now I have bought the games so I can say it :P). I must say, Q2 aged like wine and the rush of adrenaline was there again! Also, the only enemies that still haunt me are tanks and supertanks. I don´t know what, but there is something very unpleasant and eerie on them. I felt that back then, I felt that today. Very nice review!

[@hurykles99]

I had a blast playing Quake 1 expansions. They are more fun that the base game to me Meanwhile in Quake 2 i only finished the new expansion. Tried the old ones and i was just either annoyed or bored. Which is sad because i prefer base Quake 2 (both single and multiplayer) over 1

[@atifarshad7624]

I am in exact same boat as you. I prefer vanilla Q2 campaign over vanilla Q1 campaign. But i vastly prefer Q1's expansions over Q2's

[@FrancisBurns]

I will disagree with the tesla mine, super useful to distract annoying enemies like the Stalker and Daedalus then kill off with crappy ammo like the ETF. I did spam quick saves though, so it was easier to prepare traps for those a-holes.

[@AlexeiVoronin]

Nah, it's a good mission pack, it's just tough. That's how add-ons were made back in the 90's - they ramped up the difficulty to challenge the veterans and create some sort of continuing progression. Also, devs didn't care about players giving up due to frustration or leaving negative reviews (there was no place to leave a review anyway).

[@fifth_elephant]

Thoroughly enjoyed this, now to scour your channel for more videos

[@Renegen1]

a whole channel just for Quake 2 mission packs...

[@RetroGold19]

You should make videos about Call of The Machine and Quake 64

[@adam1984pl]

Worst thing about it is backtracking ,not playing level after level like in orginal.

[@peanutt82004]

Man oh man is the newer expansion 'Call of the Machine' so good!

[@RegalRoyalWasTaken]

So what I'm hearing is skip to Call of the Machine

[@Daimo83]

10:20 that was funny

[@zander2758]

While i don't agree with everything said, i quite enjoyed your quake 2 videos. Can't wait to see what else you'll produce.

[@Scruffy0105]

Nice video. Subbing for future videos.

[@masterjediarcade]

Thanks for the sub!

[@StroggKingu]

At that time i already knew what bindings were even not playing online, and buttons for those weapons were somewhere on keyboard, and if not and it was at the end why not just take blaster and use "weapon prev" to go back instead of going all the way to the end? Nonsense argument. And for mines both type, just think tactically, drop tesla and accompany it, or set a trap, or just dick around, even then didn't saw the problem you are talking here, at worst i just not used it.

[@slyofwar3661]

I'm sorry you can't get the hang of the expansion packs you shouldn't play Ground Zero on Hard if it's giving you trouble (It's easily the hardest Quake game) just play it on normal it's a lot easier Also you can give all weapons new key bindings in the console example: ` bind r use railgun enter

[@Franku_4]

I'm playing this and the recogning was more fun. I'm around the middle I think. If it weren't for the compass in the remaster I'd have quit already.

[@OverlordZephyros]

what about call of the machine?

[@deadstar2692]

Told ya this was gonna be painful :P Atleast the remaster tried to smooth things out a lil' bit. Guess next one is gonna be Call of the Machine?

[@htsec]

I really like the Mission Packs, it's more Quake 2!

[@ShadesMan]

Quake game, not a quake game... but Buzz Lightyear would feel right at home here!

[@bloodborne410]

man you need to make more videos it can be about anything grant us eyes

[@filiplaskovski9993]

Anyone that hates quake 2 is just sad tbh,

[@Drunde]

Ground Zero aka sci-fi Hexen.

[@CoffeeWaffee]

I've been waiting for this

[@aranerem5569]

Welcome back

[@michaelbuehler3897]

A reason not to play expansions or player made content on hard for the first playthrough.

[@Rastard12345]

I think @kikoskia loves turrets 😂

[@Enigmatifox]

not trying to be rude but when you say quake 2 ground zero isnt a quake game, quake 2 is also not a quake game. i get what you mean tho

[@ravick007]

I wonder if this sewer level hate was a thing before Civvie made it fashion. But, hey, don't get me wrong. Nice vid!

[@Hex_Scythe_takanashi]

Skill issue lol This is a game just difficult, your opinion is wy too exaggerated

[@kommandokodiak6025]

quake II isnt a quake game either

[@j85grim4]

I remember as a kid being so disappointed with Quake 2 not following in the dark Lovecraftian horror of the original. It's still a good game though on it's own terms.

[@bloodysimile4893]

Explain 1 story is just random from itself And 2 story is random from 1. 2 is definitely keeping up the spirit of Quake of not making sense to itself.

[@j85grim4]

@@bloodysimile4893 It was a definite change in theme and aesthetic. Originally, it wasn't going to be called Quake 2,something else actually, but someone forced them into calling it Quake 2. That's what I heard at least.

[@LungoScrungo]

​@@j85grim4 I heard what happened was it was originally gonna be called "WOR" (yes, that's how it was spelled), but they couldn't get the name approved for licensing or whatever on time, so they just decided to call it Quake 2.

[@CatsOverdrive]

Same with quake iii, quake iv, quake wars, quake live, and quake champions...

[@INFILTR8US]

You captured my feelings exactly. Reckoning is where it's at. And of course, Call of the Machine blows them all out of the water (including the main campaign)

[@rafinery576]

Yes it is, it's in the title duh. Haven't watched the video =D

[@PonderousEclectica4383]

bullshit

[@SNIPEYOPIPE]

Oh... God... The headache... The-the... Nightmares!