🧙 Queen Stoneheart: Daenerys | GoT S8 Analysis

In Game of Thrones episode 5, the Bells, Daenerys Targaryen unleashed the full wrath of her anger and her dragon on the people of King's Landing despite their surrender. In this video, I take a look at how she got to the place that she would burn down the city, how her relationship with her brother Viserys looms large over her life, and how we may have finally gotten Lady Stoneheart at along last.
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[@bradleywarren7666]

Holy shit! Great video. I don't get why people have trouble understanding Danaery's motivations. She is def a tragic figure. Yet I will still be on her side when I watch the finale or read the final book because she is a wonderfully developed character. Wish I could be a patreon supporter alas I'm poor. Is just a thank you ok?

[@JoeMagician]

A thank you is more than enough :)

[@mbeth4095]

@@JoeMagician But she was not a fully developed character in GoT... that is my point... if GoT is meant to stand alone, separate from ASOIAF book series...

[@AKRex]

Wrong. Folk do understand it. It was just lazily written, tincanned and inorganic. It made sense on the paper if you look at all the boxes that needed to be ticked, but they didnt develop it properly as they did with all the other characters in earlier seasons (example Robb and Ned).

[@Midgert89]

People are setting completely false expecations, based on an inaccurate reading of her character. Sure she's nice, but no more than a revolutionary can be. Eventually she'll run out of villans to fight.

[@HolyknightVader999]

@@Midgert89 And revolutionaries are often the worst mass murderers. Just ask the people of France, Russia, and China.

[@melissablackwood]

Dany's face right before she took off to burn KL: "If I look back, I am lost."

[@lajaradayne3679]

Fantastic! This is a great deep dive the showrunners weren't obviously drawing from, but it's an awesome way for those of us who were upset by ep5 to read what happened and cope. I also think it makes a ton of sense in context for what we might see in the books.

[@joeltru]

Regardless how much sense this video makes about Daenerys turning into the Mad Queen the fact they did in 1 episode is horrible and unacceptable for such a great series.

[@lajaradayne3679]

@@joeltru I agree, but this gives me a good "head canon" to cope. Continuing to ruminate about what they did wrong is not great for my emotional health. Joe Magician provided a good way to move on, and that's what I was trying to say.

[@_whatsername1911]

Had they taken 60 seconds to flash through everything she's been through, as her rage and pain boiled, I feel like people wouldn't be as angry or disappointed about it. Amazing breakdown. Thank you for the hard work.

[@JoeMagician]

That's true, would've been better if they had given more on the screen.

[@three-eyedmonkey7344]

I’m fine with Dany going there because I think it’s where she’s going in the books, as some readers have been arguing for years. The problem with the show is that they resorted to scenes like the one that killed Rhaegal to get Dany to the plot point and that is just bad storytelling. The fact that a lot of excellent videos, like this one, have been made to explain her action using additional book material proves that point. Thanks for the analysis, Matt. Top class, as always.

[@heliopolitan444]

Remember: Missandei died in chains

[@LordofFullmetal]

Lord that's sad. I never thought of that.

[@thesativastreamerz5748]

An interesting foreshadowing spills out here... if we take what you're saying but look at it from Viserys' perspective, he only began to go mad when he himself became isolated. The Dothraki didn't like him. Jorah didn't like him. His sister didn't like him. He had no one. And he went mad, nearly killing his sister to get his crown. That happened early in season 1. Danaerys on the other hand always had the support of someone. All the way until the end of the show, when she is left with no one. And she ends up going mad just as her brother did in season 1.

[@kmjkmjkmj]

No. He hated and abused Dany from the day she was born. She was alone with an erratic brother growing up. Viserys was mad for a long time, but considering he was raised by the mad king himself it isn't that surprising.

[@rebeccaoh4458]

Fire and ice being in balance is such a huge point in both books and show. You cannot have all of one and none of the other without it being a bad thing. An endless summer is equally as bad as an endless winter. If ice is defeated by fire (only dragon glass or valerian steel), then fire can only be defeated by ice (in which case it’s a good thing we have a weapon, now two, named so). The defeat of fire brings balance. We are innately fearful of those who look different, and more trusting of those who look like us, to our detriment, point also driven home with this series and in real life. It’s brilliant. And also not surprising.

[@MrDNMock]

The Catelynn to Daenerys is not a very good comparison. Cat was completely backed into a corner and reacted in the heat of the moment. Dany had the situation firmly in hand, and even stopped to think it over, then decided to act. That difference is what differentiates an act of passion and the actions of a complete sociopath.

[@JoeMagician]

I think if you look at Emilia's face and the flashing of emotions across it from pain to fear to anger, she did not have herself or the situation firmly in hand. Wasn't a calculated decision but one born out of intense loss and emotions.

[@MrDNMock]

@@JoeMagician The cities defenses were annihilated and the bells signifying absolute and unconditional surrender were ringing. The situation was firmly in hand. Her mental and emotional state were not though. I get what you are saying here, I'm just pointing out that they are both very different states of mind. A sudden and intense moment of passion shouldn't be compared to a total mental and emotional breakdown brought on by years of abuse and trauma. On the one hand, the decision is controlled by your sub conscious, primal flight or fight reactions. On the other you are aware and making your decisions consciously, but the logic is completely defunct on account of the abuse and trauma, effectively turning you into a sociopath. Edit: A better way of putting it I suppose would be to say that Cat's actions were fueled by adrenaline and Dany's actions were fueled by depression.

[@pkk8526]

Finally, someone with perspective. Most book readers I know are fine with Daenerys because they remember the 15 years of abuse she suffered at the hands of Viserys. You also remind people of the PTSD from the Zombie Apocalypse. Dany was more than capable of frying Kings Landing.

[@annajane8890]

Yeah, but most of the people who watch the show haven't read the books, and it's the responsibility of the showrunners to make the show work for those people as well.

[@pkk8526]

Gilly8890 I guess, but she did some pretty vicious things over the last 8 seasons and had awful things done to her. I’m not sure how much overt they could have been without people complaining from the other direction.

[@annajane8890]

@@pkk8526 but they weren't often framed as vicious at the time; they were usually treated as empowering. The casual viewing audience relies a lot on framing in order to inturpret the emotion of a scene. (Sorry, film studies has ruined me.) Some people may have looked closely enough to pick up on what was going on (mostly book readers), but a show this popular can't get away with only catering to geek culture. Casual viewers (aka most viewers) are going to get annoyed, and that's on the show runners.

[@zebbleganubi723]

i don't really have a problem with that happened either and ive never read the books but i think they should have saved jorahs death for the bells episode or maybe the dragon. having her look at the red keep and making that the thing she flips over doesn't really work on tv. at least in the books it can be explained what is going through her head at that point.

[@pkk8526]

Gilly8890 It appears our discussion was played out last night in the dialogue btw Jon Snow and Tyrion. I’ll never know how a non-book reader views the show so all the things I picked up on seem disconnected. You might be interested in this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/goaVf5Jro8ihi6M

[@tonyg6691]

Beautiful video, Matt. Daenerys is such a tragic character. I cant wait to see how GRRM will write this tragic turn.

[@JulianJulian]

Thank you for being one of few not throwing spoilers around

[@nekkelj2114]

Thank you for this. I don't understand all the shock and awe over Dany's "snap" last week. It was all there the entire time.

[@patatoth6646]

thats why i loved it to be honest. I was always aware that this might could happen (especially after she executed one of the masters after baristans death - that guy did nothing wrong, he was innocent as far as we know) But i didn´t want to believe it as it happend because show and book made her such a great character. It was haunting, tragic and i felt the same way i felt at the red wedding - betrayed in a good way. One of the finest hours of television i ever had.

[@factotums]

Very good video and summation. To allow one criticism I'd say you neglected to mention her growing isolation in her 'home' of Westeros. Her first lines in Season 7, when she is standing in Dragonstone for the first time, are 'this doesn't feel like home' and that phrase continues to fester in every following episode. For someone who is so used to being exalted, either through real adoration or through fear, and who has been struggling her entire life to get back to her homeland, or any sense of home, this must be crushing. She must be consistently prevented from burning the capital through military plans which all fail. Then finally when she sacrifices one of her dragons and half her army, almost losing her own life, to fight in a war to save the country and all life, a war she had never planned for, she loses her most valuable possession, her identity and birthright as the heir to the throne. Simultaneously she loses the lover on whose behalf she even turned her resources north. Her two closest friends then die, her remaining advisors are scheming against her, and still the people of her 'home country' see her as an outsider. I can't understand how anyone would claim her actions to be unclarified.

[@thedmandful]

The two situations are not comparable. Catelyn killing the wife of the man who murdered her son is nothing like Dany killing civilians that held no meaning for Cersei. It was already made clear to everyone that Cersei hated these people and that they hated her. Cersei used them as a human shield, one Dany obliterated after the war was won.

[@MaZiya___]

Like Walder Frey cared😩

[@jansmith3613]

Another great video. There is no doubt that Dany is a tragic figure who has suffered much; as have so many in GoT. Dany's fatal flaw has always been there and is the same flaw that her house carries. As they become the dragon they act with the same hurt=rage=revenge method. What is catastrophic to her followers is that this type of act is the very thing that she claimed to want to stop forever. Her choice to burn King's Landing's citizens after they surrendered may be understood but cannot be forgiven by those who trusted her to be the Righteous Queen she claimed to be. It is a very good commentary on the futility of thinking that the darkest forms taken by human nature can be eradicated. Those dark acts can only be curbed and counseled. Like it has been said, "no one can truly tame a dragon".

[@reneebarger5194]

Bravo Mat-man! I also felt for Dany when the realization came that she could not kill the NK. She would not save these people, Jon, or his family. She felt the loss of power and love. Her fate was taken out of her hands. All was down hill from here.

[@fouda1980]

Thank you for providing a sane voice, people now hate on everything even shows that we didn’t yet get to see like the Witcher

[@anthonyufert8477]

Great video! Great analysis! I completely agree that some fans are overlooking the loss of Dany’s dragons 2 her psyche. I feel like the loss of Rhaegal was the end of Dany’s goodness, integrity & possibly faith in general. All qualities that her brother Rhaegar had which were embodied n her dragon Rhaegal

[@chandrawagner4061]

I like the symbolism you point out between losing Rhaegal and losing Rhaegar's qualities. Very nice observation.

[@MrGrabmegotcha]

I don’t argue with any of your points, but it doesn’t change that they failed to convey that through the medium. They could have had all these moments ringing in her head like hearing the voices in that echoey internal way while the bells went off and it would’ve been way better

[@GrannyGamer1]

I honestly don't think it's a good idea for me to watch the final episode tonight, until i've heard some post-broadcast commentaries. You've done a great job. Wish i'd found your channel sooner

[@debbiejohnson4622]

Great commentary. Your discussions are very informative and interesting.

[@swrensmail]

Awesome video . This describes why I feel so much sympathy and empathy for Dany. Also why I hope for a last minute miracle for her.

[@dimaflorida9889]

@ Shon, the only legit inkling of a last minute miracle Danny would be worthy of is only if she utters genuine (I wish I could turn back time) remorse and repentance for committing mass genocide on a city that surrender prior. But it's not surprising that a few commentators will come up with excuses and justifications for someone to commit mass genocide of innocent men, women, and children do to having shitty life experiences. All tyrants think he or she is just to use whatever means to reach their lust desires. Danny announced (again) and this time to Sansa that her one goal was the throne. But when Sansa asks "what about the North?", all the smiles and giggles disappeared from Danny's face, and demonic eyes peered through them back at Sansa and Danny withdrew her hand from Sansa's. You know, it was sympathy for the devil that convinced a third of the angels to fall with satan. There's folk that still have sympathy for (and would still follow) Hitler.....so why should there be an exception for dragon queen danny?

[@JimTempleman]

Here's Daenerys' PoV. She explained it in her intimate conversation with Jon. She wanted to be the great ruler. She felt everyone in the Kingdom loved Jon. All that was left to her was their fear (of "The Mother of Dragons"). The problem during the battle was that the Lannister army surrendered to Jon!!! That was the last straw. The bells echoed Jon's victory, face to face with the people on the ground. As she said in the earlier encounter, all that was let to her was their fear. As the bells rang out, She took the city, the kingdom, with the only means at her disposal: fear! You have to see it through the eyes of someone who raised herself up with one goal ever in mind: To rule Westeros as a true Targaryen. How very sad, such absolute attachment blinds people to the life of others.

[@Hernameispamela]

I think they surrendered to Drogon. They were facing Jon Snow for hours. They only surrendered when Dany came crashing through KL on Drogon. They outnumbered Jon Snow with the North and the Dothraki and the Unsullied.

[@than217]

That's an interesting take I haven't heard anyone else say that. She saw the surrender as a 'surrender to Jon'.

[@JimTempleman]

@@Hernameispamela -- They surrendered to Jon in the traditional sense of handing over their sword(s) to the opposing leader. Granted Drogon provided the 'artillery' necessary for the breakthrough. Daenerys' concern was the peoples' of Westeros perception of who conquered King's Landing. She voided the surrender, and demonstrated her own power. She was fighting to win control over all of Westeros, not just the battle of King's Landing. It's akin to Sherman's burning of Atlanta.

[@Hernameispamela]

James Templeman but do you think they will say Jon conquered KL and not Dany? They dropped the swords in the ground in front of JS because they were ready to fight them but because of the dragon they gave up, so they dropped the swords. It doesn’t mean they surrendered to Jon. They couldn’t very well drop the swords on the roof where Dany was.

[@JimTempleman]

@@Hernameispamela -- From our perspective, watching the show, you're right! It was clearly Dany's victory at the point of surrender. But we need to see it through her eyes at that moment. She was 'very concerned' about Jon becoming as loved & respected in the south as he was in the north. And she was doing what she thought necessary to win over the seven kingdoms of Westeros right then & there.

[@hukuando]

As the saying goes, “when all you have is a dragon, everything looks like match-sticks to you.” Or maybe it was something about a hammer and nails?

[@talkwithrose]

If you remember everytime dani showed mercy she got screwed. Miri masdur killed her khal. In war when she shows mercy she gets screwed. She wanted the iron throne so bad without a revolt or anything. She knows the people of kings landing hate her. They didnt surrender from love they surrendered from fear of death. Before they killed missandei they had a chance to surrender out of loyalty and love. I can see why she did it. It sucked but I can see why she finally became a dragon.

[@gokuson2590]

Rose Gore Dany wanted to be loved by the people of King Landing without having done something for them. She killed innocent civilians. Regardless of what she had thought this was not justified .

[@dooley8746]

Mercy isn't a good word with what happened with Mirri. What did her people do to get slaughtered and raped in the first place? That whole thing never set well with me because if you look at it another way, Mirri was totally justified killing Drogo and you could argue she was saving Danny from a tyrant husband - just Danny had Stockholm syndrome and didn't see it.

[@JoeyB7615]

Your content is absolutely the best..keep up the good work

[@keonie]

Just found your channel. Great narration, analysis and execution. Thank you for this!!

[@ilikemitchhedberg]

Great analysis! How about this crazy theory: Dany stares long and hard at the Red Keep just before she snaps. The red keep represents the house with the red door. This house in Bravos, with a wooden beam and a lemon tree outside her window... it did not exist. There are no lemon trees or wood in bravos. The red door house was a figment of her insane imagination. And it represented her deep psychological pain of a traumatized childhood; of having no home. The bells also must have represented something special to her, mayhaps the bells in dothroki beards.

[@rodrickhatton8636]

When people talk about Daenerys and her losing so much leading to her snapping...I INSTANTLY think of Ser Davos, and how he's still mentally stable.

[@adamorly2971]

I'm not sure why people are surprised by Daenerys doing what she did. Dragons/serpents, in literally every piece of literature, are things that symbolize something to overcome. She is the person to be overcome, not Cersei. She carries with her the torments of the past (dragons), and eventually succumbs to her nature.

[@JoeMagician]

That's one of those things I reflected on, how George and the show got us to root for the dragons. They are very often symbols of destruction and death, yet we were rooting for them. Looking at the history of Valyria and the Targaryens are big hints that what we think from inside her head is not the reality of where she was going. Very elegantly done.

[@adamorly2971]

@@JoeMagician Thank you, Sir. I've also noticed how this season seems to be about revealing the true intentions/personalities of all the characters. War and violence does this, and it is the true nature of Tragedy.

[@gloriamitchell3518]

Thank you, so happy to have found your channel. Great analysis. Will always be thankful for the Game of Thrones collaboration of film makers.

[@markgottesman4638]

Your discussion and narrative are Wonderful. Thank you for everything you've done.

[@markgottesman4638]

m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYrLenqkZqpssLc

[@leatherywings6932]

A thoroughly thought-out analysis! I truly enjoyed the comparison between Dany and Catelyn / Lady Stoneheart. It is always helpful to gain more perspective on why a person might commit horrendous acts while still being capable of kindness. Viewing Dany's actions as the culmination of all that she has suffered makes sense. Excellent video!

[@Nemenon]

This is a spectacular video, I feel like you're one of the few that can make the show still seem so interesting despite it's innumerable flaws.

[@even8121]

That was a very well thought out video. Kudos! You just got a new subscriber 😊

[@mmccrownus2406]

Why did she burn them? "Because I felt like it". "Trust your feelings". "If it feels good, do it."

[@sheilahilton356]

@joeMagician another awesome video. I just love your rational view on things. Congrats again on the continued growth of your channel 😍❤️

[@carolincoren3997]

Once again, you kicked my a*s! So good.....geez! Truly beautiful work. I have always understood Dany's actions, but your description took it all home! Thanks!

[@jun3078]

dany going mad is an excellent end for her arc but the way the she got there in the show is weird for me

[@JoeMagician]

Fair! I didn't have a problem personally but I see why others do.

[@mariedriskell8752]

Very nice. Great research. Thanks.

[@bradwarfe4465]

The show just didn’t humanize Daenerys enough and establish her personal relationships. When Daenerys lost her Dragons, the show didn’t do enough to show the kind of pain one has when losing a child. She always says the dragons were her children but it wasn’t equally portrayed compared to other characters when they lost children. They really did a big character leap without properly developing her into someone who could possibly murder thousands of people if put in the right circumstances.

[@WanderfalkeAT]

That is why I still support Danereys - I can understand what happened to Her. She, at the End got overwhelmed by all the Bad that happened to Her. She did not care anymore if she is loved because she knew that would never become a Reality, not even if she would have stopped after the Bells. She allready lost everything dear to her except Drogon, the Rest of the Unsullied and the Dothraki. Jon's Honor also killed a big Part of her Hearth. If he would have given in, she would not have massacred all the People because she would know that Jon would be very much hating Her. But that was no more a Concern, because he showed to Her that he did not want to love her in the Way he did before! In Fact I think that Sansa and her Betrayal to Jon's Wish not to tell anyone was the Turning Point. Not so much Sam, because he had a real Reason to hate Danereys.

[@thetalesofelbek7042]

Sansa failed Ned. Ned kept secret to avoid bloodshed, Sansa didn’t. At the Starks are even worse than Lannisters. Fuck everyone who aren’t us .

[@autumnre_]

This is a wonderful video and I love the parallels that you have drawn between Cat and Dany. It had been so long ago, I hadn't even thought of Cat and how the two may be similar.

[@fitzchivalrysnow9560]

The best explanation I have heard, thank you. I have been struggling, like many other people to get my head around the burning of Kings Landing. The moment you explained about Catlyn I finally got it 🖖

[@Foudedanse]

I needed this! Thank you!!!

[@wesleymons]

BRILLIANT!! Thank you for this video, not sure why people dont understand why Daenerys would do this

[@xajaso]

Another great take. Thanks!

[@marcomongke3116]

The light-hearted so called majority of the mainstream fans are critisizing the show constantly, now. Eventough its true that the show was rushed, and i hate D&D, as a die-hard fantasy lover i just cannot bring myself to join in the hate-train and be hyper critical all of a sudden. And i think we are all Dany sometimes when we loose everything and feel lonely... Dany without hesitation was so effective and fast. And it was too soon to end it all after hearing the bells, all those built-up rage just had to be released

[@cathythompson1578]

Great assessment!! Much thanks

[@ShadeoftheEvening]

Great video Joe😘👏👏

[@asseenontv-ch7944]

Eloquent, elegant, empathetic, on point and with heart... as always... this video is THE one all should turn to if and when they ever doubt or lambast how Daenerys finally met her fated demise.

[@johncahill8835]

Good video Thanks for sharing

[@mbeth4095]

It just makes me ill that the end of this story and journey (years!) with all these characters is with us sitting here waiting to see who kills Danaerys - a beloved character - and how she will be killed...

[@JoeMagician]

"Men's lives have meaning, not their deaths"

[@mbeth4095]

@@JoeMagician How did her life have meaning then... ?

[@JoeMagician]

A tragic downfall of a beloved character is a good one for me. How seeking power is destructive to the soul. How she wanted nothing more than to be a normal person, and she was shaped and deformed by a terrible world into becoming a monster.

[@mbeth4095]

@@JoeMagician I can accept a tragic downfall... this is something else altogether based on my own worldviews... and I personally find it arbitrary (indeed a toss of double sided coin) and inconsistent w/ double standards in how other characters who experienced trauma, betrayal and loss went on to commit heinous acts of revenge (including Arya) and other characters who perpetrated acts of pure evil (Milisandre, Cersei, etc). And I'm speaking to GoT specifically... not to ASOIAF... and for all fans who have not read the unfinished source material. That we have to rely on fan vloggers/analysis to bring us to where the creators and writers of GoT did not says a lot to me. It's a quality series, don't get me wrong... The cinematography is stunning, the acting stellar... But once they chose to complete the tv series before the books series, ASOIAF, was finished, the story suffered and only holds up with background and analysis (lol psycho-analysis) of fans/vloggers. I do so appreciate yours Joe!! No doubt it's just me... this may not be the world for me...

[@alanpennie8013]

@@mbeth4095 Agreed. It is not well executed, and the entire theme of grieving mothers becoming homicidal maniacs is rather nauseating.

[@trulyquintessential5842]

So Danaerys has PTSD...I could believe that..only the show didn’t set it up properly..if we saw flashbacks and her hearing voices before the battle or during it would have been better.

[@f1colaforyou]

Exactly. Perhaps the books set it up better and the final two books will do a better job of showing her descent into becoming the mad queen. But the show failed miserably in rushing towards the end, leaving the viewers to fill in the blanks.

[@alanpennie8013]

@@f1colaforyou I think Benioff's reluctance to use flashbacks made it impossible to explore Dany's relationship with Viserys in any depth and that was damaging.

[@f1colaforyou]

@@alanpennie8013 True, but I think we needed to see more of lots of things. For example her romance with Jon, it was done to quickly and lots of people didn't buy it. Had they developed it properly, then Jon kill Dany would have been so much more tragic. And of course there is the whole mad queen thing. That need a lot more development. It was totally unearned.

[@alanpennie8013]

@@f1colaforyou Agreed.

[@ancientloredude]

A good analysis. The story of Danarys is a tragedy, not unlike a fine Shakespeare play. Ancient Valaryia was undoubtedly a magnificent jewel of civilization, but also cruelty...slaves toiling away in mines, and dragons causing death, .... The Targaryen dynasty with their dragons were no less awe inspiring and equally ruthless. The show really doesn’t present the whole history of fire and blood, and as such, it’s easy to see Dany’s rage as completely unfounded. In reality, she is just her own tragic spoke on the wheel, when it comes to dragons and their riders.

[@tracymetherell8744]

Thanks for this. It does help

[@ct2691]

A must see before the last episode. Thank you.

[@simonenina_]

Excellent insights!

[@MZTRAYBLUE]

This was great TY

[@BonanzaRoad]

The problem is that the GOT show didn’t properly develop Dany’s character arc the way you describe, other than a few breadcrumbs along the way. Up till now she never seemed any more “mad” than Tywin Lannister, or Roos Bolton, or Stannis, who were ruthless but nobody accused them of insanity. To the contrary she was always shown to incline toward compassion and opposed cruelty. Hopefully Winds of Winter will tell a better, more satisfying and consistent story.

[@YoYo-wo3lm]

💯

[@ellenburke3285]

You have made it make sense; thank you!

[@jackrabbit6515]

Awesome video! It's very hard to go to this depth on TV and I think the showrunners more than adequately covered Dany's journey over the years where one could see she could go either way. Either mature, overcome the trauma of her awful childhood and choose a different path, like Arya did, or let those demons consume her, like Jaime and the Hound did.

[@OuroborosLT]

Great video! Would you share your thoughts on s7 foreshadowings that will never come to pass and any possible reason as to why they were even made? Like Jorah telling Jon 'May it serve you well and your children after you', dragon pit talk with Jon and Dany, the talk of succession with Dany and Tyrion, and more instances of Daenerys telling that she can't be pregnant. That was heavily foreshadowed even in the commentary for s7e7 from D&D when they refer to Jon talking about Daenerys being unable to get pregnant as 'Yeah we will see about that'. It's really sad in a way that House Targaryen will die in the final episode. It was almost extinct at the beggining of the series and now it well ultimately meet it's end.

[@abrhamgebeyehu933]

A well thought out video as always. But I have to disagree with the comparation of Catelyn and Daenerys. The Red Wedding was an ambush and a massacre were the Starks have almost no way of winning. They couldn't even be able to get out of the castle alive. The Sack of Kingslanding was a military engagement where one side surrendered. Dany has already won the war. It would be more approprate to compare the actions of Dany to the instigators of the Red Wedding than the Starks. And Catelyn has made a vow, her sons life for Jinglebells live. She carried out the vow.

[@JoeMagician]

That wasn't the point of the example, that they were in identical scenarios. It was how loss and pain can push someone past the point you thought they were capable of.

[@MrScottie301]

Once again great video

[@whatamess8764]

I loved this video!

[@southernbama4547]

I have been patiently waiting for Daenerys to become a ruthless tyrant. It would have been much better if her turn was not so absolute. The way it was done erases any conflict for the audience as to whether or not she should be stopped in my opinion. If Jon kills her there is no moral ambiguity about his actions . It just lessens the impact her death will have.

[@alanpennie8013]

SouthernBama Yep. We need more nuance than D&D are prepared to give us.

[@mumtv9502]

I figured it out, Drogon is going to take Dany to the children of the forest, it will be revealed that she will become the Night Queen at the very end when Jon goes north.

[@daydreamsinpastels]

Great analysis.

[@amybernard4449]

Brilliant analysis from start to finish!! Catelyn Stark comparison is pure gold :) Thanks for such a great follow up to Dany's Fall. She is not a villain; she is a Tragic Hero and we are meant to love her strength and learn from her flaws. She is my Queen, now and forever!

[@shirleymcdonald2777]

Joe your magic

[@malonelee8784]

Great video. The wisest, most sad character that was both used and had lots of loss was Drogon. Loving his mother but being used by her the same she was used. Who ever asked Drogon what he wanted. She ironically tought Drogon in his youth not to kill and eat innocent people. Then she makes him kill tons of tons of innocent people. That is when he knew the true enemy was the throne. The wheel Dany talked about but didnt get was that throne. Drogon couldnt kill his beloved mom. He knew Jon would. That is why he let him in. So sad. Dragons are very wise. And nobody thought of that. Dany even say in an episode that dragons are not slaves. But she used him with love not whips. The firedragon even lies there in the end under a pile of snow and doesnt even care. He was very depressed and knew what had to happen.

[@robindanette1206]

I love your calm voice

[@LordofFullmetal]

See? It makes perfect sense for her character to act this way. I don't understand why everyone was angry at this. Let's be real, George is totally going in a similar direction in the books; she's going to lose her mind, die, or both. The whole point of ASOIAF is to tear down fantasy tropes; he's not going to let a Lost Princess finish as a main protagonist anymore than Jaime's Prince Charming started out as one. It would be too tropey for him. This is and always WAS Daenerys' natural character arc; did y'all really expect that someone raised by VISERYS would be normal and healthy?

[@minty.maelstrom]

Gorgeous 👌 thank you

[@issbiss11]

Great video! I wish the show would have put those sound bites in that you did "Wake the Dragon! Dracarys!". It would have given that moment more drama!

[@JoeMagician]

Thank you! They did a bit in the previously on section. Glad that didn't come off as corny.

[@allienormedina5193]

Very good discussion

[@Dex000x]

I'm not even listening to the haters. Every one of them seems like someone raised on Marvel movies where the characters are simple and one dimensional, and the plots are cliche and basic. That's the problem. These people crying about GoT aren't bright enough to understand what they're seeing, so they think the fault is with the writers, when all they need to do is pay attention and read between the lines. It's sad, but regardless of what they think, GoT is a masterpiece, and it'll be remembered as one of the greatest, if not the greatest, show in history.

[@hatihattencoat5268]

Marvel movies are ALSO for children/teeshirts etc. Eowyn for the best kill in fantasy literature. S3e10 for best GoT hr

[@daeroc]

All she had to do was not kill a city of people who had no choice in the matter. Then she would be alive, she would be queen.

[@mahjie9903]

It’s always painful when the one you love beyond everything says with words”I love you”but their eyes and body says something different! It’s tragic and the greatest betrayal of your life!! It may even drive some to murder or suicide, I truly thought Dany had chosen the later when she chose to attack Kingslanding🤔😔

[@harryo82]

Catelyn killing an innocent wasn't the same as Dany burning thousands of women and children. In Catelyn's case it was the horrible desperate act of a woman who lost everything. Dany won, Catelyn wouldn't have done it if she could have gotten out of there with Rob alive.

[@brandonellisFL]

Dany is Targaryen though & everyone seems to forget that

[@JoeMagician]

The point I was making is not that they are 1 to 1 parallels. Instead that the intense rage and feelings of loss from Catelyn and Cersei can be used as a way to understand why Daenerys did something so terrible.

[@PaulStargasm]

What is the title theme? I love it.

[@sylviasebregts2427]

So true. If only the show didn't need this explanation. Show only needed to bring the audience to the same point. I am so interested in the new cultural phenomenon that films need a fanbase for interpretation. Is that bad writing or a new democracy? Having one million names on a petition to change the script of a film, where petitions to help refugees barely get 3000 signatures? My. What society am I living in? If we turn from fictional to factional, would we vote the same, root the same?

[@mrparts]

Your comment is very interesting. People reading a lot into fantasy wars when there’s plenty of real warfare going on today.

[@angelaconley6702]

I think for those who still don’t understand why Dany torched kings landing should definitely watch this! Well explained! 🙌 Joe hbo should have hired you instead of D&D.

[@tachibanaukyo5150]

It’s not about that she did it, it’s the lazy cheap writing they did to take us there. It makes perfect sense that she went mad but the story they told to get her there had no emotion and cheap tricks that would have never happened in OG game of thrones

[@Hernameispamela]

Joe amazing video! Great content as always. I do think if the show had bothered to show Daenerys’s suffering with the loss of her children and so much else people would have understood better. They could sympathize with Catelyn and Cersei loosing her children because we actually saw them crying and screaming over them. They didn’t give this to Dany at all. I think seeing Viserion crashing down like that would tear her apart, and then to witness him raised back to fight against her would shake her, but the show gave us nothing, like she didn’t even care, so people didn’t sympathize with her pain. I have a doubt in relation to the books. I really didn’t get the vibe that Dany was going mad in the books. Sure she threatened people but I mean, so does my mom you know, threatened to kill me and my sister many times... Anyway, in the books I feel quite certain Cersei is going mad and possibly Tyrion too (where do whores go?), but when I hear people say GRRM said the books will end the same way as the show, do you think he’s saying Dany will go mad or just that KL will burn (for whatever reason)? Because I do think eventually the WW will be defeated and Cersei and Jamie will die and KL will burn (because of war against the dead tho) but I really cannot see things happening the same way as in the show. I just can’t. It felt to me like an alien story, like it had nothing to do with previous seasons or the books. Like at all. I mean all the mystical things thrown out the window and so much else. What do you think about this?

[@Grrymjo]

How many else would comment about Aeris the Second named Aeris the First?

[@morlath4767]

An old video (yes, I'm working through your catalog), but I do think it's a bit of a hand wave to compare Dany to Cat. Firstly, not the comparisons themselves. In fact, it's a fabulous bit of showing the two are so similar and really highlighting the tragedy of Danaerys' life. What I would argue against is the moment of their "snap." Catelyn was watching everything fall apart, and her family slaughtered in front of her, it's the ultimate rock bottom. Dany was on the cusp of achieving everything she ever wanted while making sure not to truly become the Mad King's Daughter. She was on the way there, she was One Bad Day from doing exactly what they had her do in the show. My argument is and always will be that they ham-fisted the "heel turn" through trying to prove she could do it, which not giving the audience the key to understanding why that moment was the snap. Why was "I'm about to win" the thing that had her lose her mind? And sure, there is a way of explaining it, but I don't think they did a good enough job of doing so in the episode.

[@tedbosquez19]

This is the video that disgruntled GOT fans need to watch to understand why the last episode was not out of character for DT ...

[@bellanovela7742]

THANK YOU !!!! it really gets on my nerves how people are crying about how she flipped I love Dany since the beginning and I still love her now because I understand her even when she is dead wrong, Goerge RR Martin and the other writers are geniuses for making us fall for Dany so deeply that we justify and overlook her violent tendencies she did not turn on a dime the show was so settle in foreshadowing what we are watching right now but the red flags are so glaring and obvious when we go back and rewatch she snapped, plain and simple this girl was abused and lost since she came to the world, with all the painful events that she went through and then her realizing the throne will be taken away from her AGAIN, her life played before her eyes when those bells rang logic lost, and the dragon took over it makes perfect sense ...

[@josiem1681]

What do you think will happen to drogon and the remainder of her army ? Will all know Danny is going die tonight 😢😢😢😢

[@vikenemma2953]

I believe this is one of these moments where the written word would have been easier. In a show you have to imagine whats happening in the characters head. In the book you are in her head.

[@lunaarran6965]

great video and in line what in deep geek is saying. the question however is: why are we more ok with what dany did that with what cersei did over the course of the series? Cersei was also abused by Robert, sold to a man she didn’t know and lived a life she only could take control over by being cruel and without mercy. thx for giving me a push to explore this myself 🤓

[@JoeMagician]

I'm personally not okay with what Dany did. It was monstrous. I felt real sympathy for Cersei in that last episode.

[@lunaarran6965]

Thank you for your reply👍. Yes, absolutely agree that hat this was monstrous and nothing justifies it. I was not clear earlier: what I meant was the things that the two characters did before the burning of king’s landing (dany burning slavers or cersei blowing up the sept) I have to admit, though, that I was shocked and appalled by Dany burning the Khals and by her speech afterwards. Btw would you agree that Cersei actually committed few acts of sheer violence than Dany but was still considered to be more ‘evil‘? Now we know for sure that these categories should never be applied dealing with human beings, except a few exemptions of course.

[@majesticstardust1414]

@@lunaarran6965 How can you say that nothing justifies the monsterous action that Dany did and turn around and say except for a few exceptions. You can't have it both ways. Either you believe and stand by that or you don't.

[@lunaarran6965]

stardust dragon What I meant with ‚exceptions‘ was that there are characters in the show that are portrayed as simply evil. I didn’t mean it in relation to Dany.

[@brianbaratheon]

Excellent video! I believe that the Khaleesi did not wrong, and I will always support her 🐉🔥❤

[@mmccrownus2406]

That's why the great minds of history loathed democracy and the mindless masses such as yourself.

[@marooned4383]

R.I.P my QUEEN , always in my heart

[@danielmihaylov4820]

This was beautuful! You should write.

[@JoeMagician]

I haven't since I was a teenager, every once in a while I put up microstories on twittier. Essentially trying to tell a story in one tweet.

[@kevinh8786]

Great analysis of Daenerys. Her actions in episode 5 do not seem so far out of character to me now

[@edwardmartin5860]

Hbo needs to hire to to explain thiangs.Cause D&D fkd that up by skimming through but i must regress and enjoy this last episode.THNX majic man.

[@davedogge2280]

I just cannot wait for tonight when (if) she provides a justification for her murderous actions.