Questions, Coffee & Cars #77 // EV resale value. Deep dive!

This is a Motormouth couple car video answering your questions from Instagram, like: Will Jeep offer a 4Xe 2-door Wrangler? What is your biggest disagreement? Toyota Crown Signia, VW Tiguan or Subaru Forester? 2024 Hyundai Tucson or 2025 model? Long-term cost of EV? Sell EV now or wait?
Andrea Instagram / motormouth_andrea
Zack Instagram / motormouth_auto
0:00 Intro
0:31 Will Jeep offer a 4Xe 2-door Wrangler?
1:59 What is your biggest disagreement?
3:21 Toyota Crown Signia, VW Tiguan or Subaru Forester?
6:03 2024 Hyundai Tucson or 2025 model?
7:23 Long-term cost of EV?
15:40 Sell EV now or wait?

[@mickp10]

Quote of the day "Enjoy the vehicle you have". How true.

[@pasoroblesbruce7370]

I recently bought a 2023 Chevy bolt euv premier with EVse / charger out the door for $27k not including my trade in. I have surplus rooftop solar, so all my driving around my area is totally cost free. Also the savings with not having fuel costs will pay for the yearly car registration and insurance and the EV level 2 charger install.😮

[@1Springloaded]

How many of us long time married folks can talk on top of each other and its ok. Not only that you can still understand each other and everything makes sense. I shall call it couples speak.

[@twoempty]

Hi Zack and Andrea, we just leased a 2023 VW ID 4, we love it, especially right now with the gas prices as they are here in Ontario. Daily driver for my wife to drop off and pick up kids and get to work. When we were shopping the choice was between a plug-in hybrid or EV, reality was EV was readily available while the plug-in was a 12-18 month wait. Payment wise the EV was not much more than the plug-in, but without the maintenance. So far our electricity bill has gone up by about $60/mth vs about $300/mth for gas. We love it.

[@theMLBfan]

You're a perfect example of the points they were trying to make. Like many EV owners you feel great today about saving a few dollars on gas and maintenance but aren't thinking about how you might feel in the future when you sell your car and you lose all of those cost savings in the extra depreciation.

[@tatersquad2000]

A problem not mentioned with Hertz EV fleet is it had low demand, people in unfamiliar areas don't want to hassle with finding charging stations.

[@realdeal8607]

It was a pretty dumb decision by them to order so many fleet EVs. I wonder how Elon Musk conned them.

[@vancity2349]

Ah people refer to the Hertz EV experience. It was completely blown out of proportion by the EV hates. The Tesla's were older with high mileage so they made a business decision to sell them. They also sold pretty much other brands which of course never gets mentioned. Click bait at its best.

[@lenimbery7038]

@@vancity2349 The rental company also didn't factor in that they'd have to educate customers on how to charge and operate the vehicles.

[@vancity2349]

@@lenimbery7038 Yup agreed..

[@foxlake6750]

I went through the Hertz list, some were high miles, some were not. As someone who doesn’t drive a Tesla, I don’t want to go through the learning curve of driving it and have to find a place to change it.

[@TheBMurda]

Interesting discussion. I wouldn't be surprised if PHEVs have much better long term resale than EVs (the somewhat reliable ones at least).

[@vincentkwok7857]

Great discussion on EVs. I have contemplated moving from ICE to EV thinking of the savings on gas and the positive impact for the environment, but the impact of steep depreciation due to battery degradation and expensive repairs resulting in many write-offs and "disposable" EVs is often lost in the decision-making process. Thank you for taking the time to deep dive into these issues.

[@vancity2349]

Battery degradation? Expensive repairs for EV's? What main steam media are you being sucked into? Talk to actual EV owners with actual experiences and you get a very different picture...

[@jpizel1070]

​@@vancity2349EV owner here. Repairs are very expensive outside of warranty and depreciation is insane on EVs, just check your trade in value with any dealership. They are speaking facts in this video.

[@Themanfromglad]

This is exactly what I am looking to hear, from real EVowners, it’s not all doom and gloom for long term EV ownership. I am ready to live with up to 30% of battery degradation over 15 years, but this may prove to be high. I believe there will be batter swap out solutions for our older EV in the future. There exist shops now that spécialisé in battery restoration and service.

[@vancity2349]

@@Themanfromglad Absolutely

[@marshallrichmond4909]

EV's are better for the environment once on the road. But they are much harder on the environment to produce than an ICE vehicle. Mostly due to the battery. In places where the electricity is produced mostly by coal, it may be just trading one form of pollution for another.

[@SniffenProductions]

Let her talk Zack😊

[@WestCoastChicano]

My favorite cars are the ones with American muscle V8s. I've owned a few in the past. However, for everyday use I bought a new 2023 Chevy Bolt EV. I knew that the value could drop like a stone going in. Battery longevity was also a concern. I've watched hundreds of EV videos over the past couple of years so I also knew the horror stories. I feel I'm prepared for whatever fate the Bolt may have in the future. Can I afford a $20,000 battery? Absolutely not. If my battery dies out of warranty I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I love the Chevy Bolt to death and I don't really care for hybrids whatsoever, but I know that EVs are not for everyone. Gr8 discussion, guys! 🚗🇺🇸🔌⚡

[@charlesdudek7713]

If you're going EV then the Bolt is probably a good choice, but what is your aversion to hybrids if you don't mind me asking?

[@michaels3003]

With a wider EV adoption (at some point), there will be rebuilt battery packs available, but the replacement may still be expensive. There is a company that does this today, but I don't know their pricing.

[@WestCoastChicano]

@@charlesdudek7713 I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with hybrids, but I'm a bit of a purest. I prefer either fully electric or fully gas. Just my preference.

[@bradbates2339]

Resale value is certainly a concern given the concerns on overall reliability and cold weather performance. Thanks! A great channel!

[@tillyhatcam]

We got a 2023 leaf and kept it for 7 years. Purchase price was 15K. The battery seems largely the same as when we bought it. It required virtually no maintenance except tires and wipers. We recently upgraded to a 2017 Bolt with 55K kms on the clock for 20K. Sold the Leaf for 9500.00. Very cheap and clean transportation!

[@barney2001]

Great show. I think your advice to not buy an EV for long term hold is correct. I disagree with your blanket statements about EV values. Our 7 year old 2017 Bolt is still worth what we paid for it according to Auto Trader. With its replacement battery in 2020 we still can’t calculate any battery degradation. We pay $500 per year for an ‘A’ and ‘B’ service on our Outback and nothing for the look over at our Chevy dealer twice a year when changing winter tires. For an equivalent car, we believe we save about $1,000 in fuel cost (Ontario @ $1.60) per year. So overall it’s about $1,500 cheaper for the Bolt than an equivalent Subaru (if there was such a thing). We’ll keep the Bolt for as long as my wife wants to.

[@Themanfromglad]

I am so happy to read what you wrote here about day to day EV ownership. I usually buy my cars and keep them 10-15 years with proper maintenance. I really wonder about doing the same with an EV

[@vancity2349]

@@Themanfromglad little to no maintenance with an EV

[@jamesdonaldson7396]

Great discussion about EVs, batteries, and cost of ownership. I hadn't thought about really any of the points you made and now I have a lot more to think about.

[@10OF9OFBORG]

WOW! Long discussion on battery! 😆 I understand there’re a lots of concerns on the battery. Like you said, if you are going to get an EV vehicle, enjoy it for few years. I am personally feel not ready for an ev vehicle for number reasons. So instead I bought hybrid vehicle. Great show Andrea! Cheers! ☕️☕️

[@kellingtonlink956]

In regards to the Jeep 4xE, I believe that the original Gladiator pickup ‘ Concept’ was designated to accommodate other power plant options. The ‘concept’ presented was a 2-Door Gladiator with an extend cab (no 4-door) with a SIDE mounted spare tyre (between mini extended cab door and rear wheel arch). It was, I thought, an absolutely brilliant design (coming from someone who has owned two 2-door Jeeps over the years). I’m sure that it would (most likely) have been able to accommodate the (relatively) small 4xE battery. Thanks for the video.

[@bassandtrebleclef]

Zack, with the cost of insurance and the cost of car repair, I don't think depreciation is the most expensive part of ownership anymore. It's repair plus Insurance.

[@srikanthnarayanan]

As a vehicle depreciates, the cost to insure it goes down too, right?

[@TheBMurda]

Great ad for the Ford Explorer watching it get towed out the driver side window 😂

[@oldebill1807]

lol!🤣

[@justinandout]

We don't know WHY it was towed but yeah, continue with your hate ofc!

[@TheBMurda]

@@justinandout can’t take a Ford joke?

[@pooh4519]

Probably another repo.

[@michaels3003]

​@@justinandout, yes maybe it just wanted to go for a walk without the driver...

[@billseibert9289]

This was my favorite episode! I love the way you guys communicate with each other

[@XMG3]

One thing that wasn't mentioned, the ICBC insurance for tesla is far higher than other equivalent size cars, I did a detailed calculation for EV vs ICE as I plan to buy soon here in Burnaby BC. It takes me 12 years to break even by going EV. I factored in charging cost, average fuel price with carbon tax increases, $9000 rebate, taxes etc, but the calculation still doesn't include the extreme depreciation of EV. So even with the highest gas prices of BC, I'd still go with regular gas vehicles. I looked into hybrids too, and they're not worth it with the current high markups.

[@davidvanaert6934]

I love Qs, Coffee & Cars! Thank you for your insight and advice. Purchasing a vehicle has become extremely complicated.... ICE, EV, PHEV or HEV? It's not as simple as just doing a little research and heading out to the nearest dealership. I'm in the market for a new vehicle and I'm looking forward to your driving review of the Crow Signia on June 6th 'Wink, Wink'.

[@marcgirard7551]

Great conversation. Cool watches both of you! The cheapest car is the one you own... words to live by. I keep maintaining and fixing my 12 year old BMW because of this exact thing; go buy the Mercedes GLC I want and you eat $10 - $20K depreciation in a year depending on if you go new or lightly used. Less if you go a bit older but, still, it takes a lot of car repairs to add up to the depreciation of tied to changing to newer!

[@davealmer3803]

EV Resale=20 0000 leagues under the sea....now that Hertz a bit I m sure. As always A&Z doin' Canada proud luv the channel.

[@dark6c159]

my borhter had KIA nero EV and its worth almost ZERO after 5 years. KIA hyundai EV has no resale value even after 5 year.

[@srikanthnarayanan]

Really? I’ve been looking for over a year and 2020 Niro EVs are still very expensive to buy. Right now it seems not worth it to buy used as the prices are too high, might as well buy new.

[@michaelgarvin8621]

Great debate and information on EV's for the long term. You guys ROCK!! 👍👍

[@Freynightwalker]

Great discussion, Andrea and Zack. Evs may not yet be ready for prime time, but improvements continue, so we will buy a PHEV and a HEV and wait.

[@karolynchang8559]

Fantastic discussion!

[@functionaldoc5054]

Love your back and forth bantering. ICE for long term ownership for the win .

[@godofdun]

I wouldn't worry about the battery lasting so much, based on the stats it's so rare it's not worth fretting. The depreciation is the concern. If you don't want to feel like you're always renting just get the used one where a lease has eaten up 50-60% of the value and just enjoy the vehicle.

[@mikepowell5313]

You guys are so awesome to watch…. I’m so torn on if a EV is right for me yet I still keep looking at my dream of a model Y it’s this battery thing ….. I know you guys went into depth today but can you guys do just a EV video and really do a reality check on the true cost and problems of an EV

[@paininthepatoot]

Agree with the statement not to buy an EV only lease

[@Richardak600]

Crown Signia might be a good choice BUT as a toyota will it have a 2 year wait?

[@adamgoldenbear]

What about the insurance costs for EVs? In BC Tesla insurance can be double of an ICE! That sure eats up your fuel savings.

[@ms.b9093]

Insurance companies have also realized the damage EVs can do to another vehicle! They weigh so much that they can really crush another vehicle and cause serious injury!!

[@matthewmoss5928]

Love watch spotting in these videos…Zack is that the marathon stainless steel navigator? Looks great either way!

[@robwatson3600]

There are tons of refurbished Leaf batteries available.

[@dougkippen4971]

Banter is fun. It would be a lot more enjoyable if you would actually let each other finish speaking.

[@timphillips4147]

Bit late to this week's edition but always worth the wait and always informative and fun, oh Zack has to agree with you Andra 😅🎉

[@mdribblecastle]

Interesting discussion on EV purchase vs lease. I purchased it because I expected to keep our Kia EV9 for a long time. Given my needs and constraints, I don't see another vehicle that would be notably better for me (in the size category). Of course, tech and ranges will improve, but also, like you said. I don't want to feel like I'm always paying a car payment for the foreseeable future. Leasing seems like a slippery financial slope. Now, I have upgraded my iPhone every single year since 2008, so I don't always choose this direction. Just depends on what you value most, I suppose.

[@oldebill1807]

I made the leap to a BEV (battery electric vehicle) last year and love my vehicle. That said, I agree with most of the commentary about EVs (albeit grudgingly). The battery is the potential Achilles heel of EVs. Replacements are currently impossible to come by and most of today's EVs cannot service individual batteries, it's the whole battery pack or nothing. I do sincerely hope that a market will evolve around servicing/replacing EV batteries. BTW, the manufacturer warranty for my KIA provides coverage for 96-months/150,000km and warrants the battery will maintain at least 70% of its original capacity. If I were making purchase decision again today, I might consider a 3-year vehicle lease rather than an outright purchase as I see EVs are continuing down the technology learning curve. Battery technology in particular seems to be advancing rapidly and my 2023 may be sadly out of date in 5-years or less. Keep on making content, you two are really good at it.

[@luispedrogarcia-pintos5697]

Great video! I have a question. I agree that the resale price of a 2024 EV would fall a lot if, say, technology changes a lot in 5 years (for instance, making the range 600miles). But, wouldn't a technology leap also lower the resale price of hybrid cars too?

[@wetzel82]

Over 8 dollars a gallon in Vancouver sometimes that is crazy. In California I’ve seen over $6 but we’re sitting at about 5 right now

[@bassandtrebleclef]

In LA, we're between 5.40 - 5.80

[@ashutoshmishra3062]

Those were canadian dollars. So $2 cad per litre would be $7.5 cad per gallon. That would be $5.47 usd per gallon :) So equal to cali as of today The difference being that an average Canuck makes wayy less than an average American. Let alone the better economy in Cali compared to Vancouver.

[@wetzel82]

@@ashutoshmishra3062 I was just going off of my head, i appreciate the real and factual numbers!

[@michaels3003]

​@@ashutoshmishra3062, he probably doesn't know that Canada has their own dollars.

[@michaels3003]

​@@ashutoshmishra3062, I would gladly pay a little bit more for "gas" and drive on better roads.

[@austincheney1989]

I always save up enough cash, buy a new or near-new car, Toyota or Honda only. Condider it as an one-time expense and drive it as long as I can. My current car is a 2014 Camry Hybrid XLE, paid CAD$31k all fees & taxes included 10 years ago. Almost problem free, and the battery has been good so far! The fuel economy is still at the new car level : 6L/100km in summmer, 6.7L/100km in winter. I live outside of Toronto, average 15k km per year, mixed highway/local driving.

[@rafapayan3361]

Hello, love your show. Thanks for all the advice. I wonder why all the reviews about the new Tacomas and 4Runners do not mention any reference to pay load? I know some of those vehicles are still prototypes, but if the base Hybrid Tacoma can only have 1200 pounds of pay load, that let only a tow capacity of 3500 pounds. The other model charged with options will make these modes useless for towing. You can save the money and get a Santa Cruz.

[@mariosimmons2138]

Same question regarding longevity except apply to hybrids.

[@knarefyi6793]

A decent set of tyres cost anywhere between $700-$1,000. Have seen EV owners having to replace tyres ever 15k miles, especially the larger and high powered ones. That’s once a year for some. No non- luxury ICE vehicle costs that much to maintain for the first few years of ownership.

[@robwatson3600]

Model S and X batteries are now expected to last >15 years and 300,000-500,000 kms based on actual customer experience. That is longer than most vehicles survive for. So battery replacement is not going to be a common issue.

[@Rissybear]

Hey guys, thanks for the awesome content. I stumbled on another car couple.. umm no.. you guys have the talent ❤ I am used to seeing you in your Cayanne, but this looks different. It’s not your GTI.. this has a racetek headliner 😊 I like it! I definitely think Lexus/ Toyota could be a car that will most likely not ever have an engine and/or transmission replacement within 15 years. Have a 99 Tacoma everything original except tires and brakes. I agree with you lease EV or purchase hybrid Toyota products. Definitely having no payments is great! Just payed off my 2023 Macan GTS yesterday .. hoping for easy ownership.. if not back to Toyota products 😂 Rissy

[@Motormouth...]

Good eye, we are in our Cayenne GTS

[@kjpraman991]

The most interesting pair in car videos. Turned out to be a VERY interesting video. Andrea 10 out of 10. . Zack 9.9 out of 10.

[@darrylrichman]

We are a couple that has always driven our cars into the ground. I put 180k miles on my Mazda 626, and my wife's 626 went to 350k. Then we bought a Prius in 2005 and drove that for 10 years/ 150k miles, and got another one (plug in) that did another 9 years (we gave it to my niece). Even so, we got a 4 year lease on an Ioniq 5, because the tech is still evolving and who can even guess what it will be worth in 8-10 years, even with the long battery warranty? We see it as a way to get an EV but not be locked into a market that is too fluid.

[@ricatiman]

I worked at a dealer that also had a Jeep store, and he told me the 2 door Wrangler is only available by factory order, as sales are so slow for it. Also, non-hybrid Wranglers are also becoming special order only.

[@gopropeterchockey]

What a blast from the past! Loved Sarah Daniels when she worked as a broadcaster on the local morning news.

[@anthonyjoyce7198]

Who is Sarah Daniel’s?

[@chrislowe4310]

Great discussion on EV's, I drove a Chevy Blazer EV about a month ago, impressed by it, weird the way it stops by taking your foot off the accelerator. That said if I didn't need a pickup I would consider one, but for now I love my Duramax. Have always had a Blackberry up until a few years ago, great phone finally went to a Galaxy. It looks like both of you have Galaxy phones, nice to see over school girl iPhones🤣

[@johnverlautz6025]

My PHEV is very economical to own. I bought it 4 years ago with 120kmiles. Now 11 years old with 150kmiles. Probably worth as much or more than when purchased. I gave $6000 American for it. It still runs 80-90% of the original 20 mile battery only range. But this success story doesn't mean I will go BEV on my next one. It is all about the timing.

[@rhteixeira5176]

Here in Hungary where I live, ev’s residuals still haven’t melted like in the uk or North America. Running school errands on my second car at the moment, 10-15km/day max. Can’t wait to get (hopefully) a highly depreciated leaf in a year or so.

[@acchaladka]

I agree with your recommendation to lease an ev rather than buy, as the tech is improving so quickly. However, we have a gen 1 Model 3 (2019 LR AWD, 80k km so far), and it has been outstanding. Purchasing has in no way been as scary as you're making it out to be here. Yes, you really want to have an at home charger. Yes, you probably want to buy the most car you can afford reasonably. Yes, repairs can be a worry, especially on stupid proprietary Tesla out of warranty. As we keep our cars until the end, depreciation is simply not a cost we worry about - everything we buy will wind up around $1000 in the end. What we DO do is calculate total cost of ownership. Our total cost over 20 years, including battery change and extra tires, and a few high repair charges, is about $5k annually - like any other mid- high range trim car. I also noticed that you completely skipped any mention of emissions or total pollution / sustainability, which is frankly an becoming unacceptable omission, fellow old people.

[@JoseDiaz-qw7mg]

I got the Tucson 2024 SEL. Analogue cluster and more buttons than haptic crap. The infotainment screen is small, but I prefer that over the all digital screens of the higher trims

[@jazzjokesjalopies]

The deck gets a mid-cycle refresh!

[@JRZ67]

There are infinite reasons not to buy an EV. Period.

[@frankyang7958]

So glad to have you to talk some sense into me. Never really thought too hard about the long term cost.....

[@russellcaldwell5942]

I loved my blackberry, too!!

[@Ryan2Bhonest]

I loved my blackberry!!❤❤

[@jamesmcgraw7866]

Replacement batteries for Toyota Prius hybrids from the early 2000s are cheap, through a hybrid shop instead of Toyota. I assume the difference between hybrid and EV will come down over time, right?

[@robertt9342]

If they standardize batteries a bit more with design and/or modularity, they reduce some costs with battery replacements.

[@CapitalJ25]

I miss my Blackberry!! :-( Vancouver pricing is $8.39 per gallon.

[@constantinedimopoulos1110]

Perhaps Solid State batteries will replace current generation EV batteries in main stream vehicles. There maybe more buy in with the public if range improves. Providing secondary issues such as charging infrastructure and EV repairs are resolved.

[@garysandhu5082]

Great Video! Zack what watch are you wearing in this video? Is it a Marathon TSAR?

[@Motormouth...]

Wow, good eye. It is a Marathon but the navigator.

[@ptg01]

Andrea is always RIGHT !!!

[@Shankovich]

Aaaaaand this is why I got a PHEV.

[@jbtubman]

I have a 2023 Tucson, and although the touch screen and push-button transmission are not terrible, they were not the best way to go and the new version would probably be better.

[@cryptojlg630]

I'm not so sure all the various fuel saving equipment on an ice vehicle gives you a great long term feeling. My first gen ecoboost 3.5 engine replacement would have rivaled a battery replacement at 90,000 kms.

[@stefonthemove]

Love your videos so helpful! What SUV would you recommend for someone who has driven a sports coupe for the last decade. I love horsepower and I don't want it to feel like an old persons car lol.

[@michaels3003]

BMW X1.

[@stefonthemove]

@@michaels3003 thank you!

[@billurban1581]

Volvo, 455 hp, 523 lb ft

[@walterparsons6063]

Hey there, I was told that VW ID.4 has the ability to replace a single cell and not the entire cell!

[@snowcat256]

Unless I’m mistaken, Kia’s warranty does cover EV battery degradation below 70%.

[@andreaspencer9813]

I wasn't aware of that, happy to hear it.

[@oldebill1807]

The warranty with my 2023 KIA Niro EV explictly states "The Lithium-Ion Polymer Battery ("EV Battery") Capacity warranty coverage period is 8 years or 150,000 kilometres from the Date of First Service, which ever comes first, for capacity loss below 70% of the original battery capacity".

[@andreaspencer9813]

@@oldebill1807 That's awesome, not all manufacturers do that. I am going to look into it with other manufacturers, see who offers it and who doesn't.

[@gregkramer5588]

The EV topic is a tough one! I think EVs are a better financial fit then you all. The thing with the EV if you do keep it 15 years you would likely save $15k to $20 over that time. Way more than the ICE car would be worth.

[@frumpd63]

EVs are considerably safer due to the battery pack keeping CG low and reinforcing the passenger cell, not to mention lower fire risk. A Model Y saved my wife's life when she was t-boned at 60 mph. I am surprised how few people consider safety, given how distracted everyone is and how large vehicles have gotten.

[@scottnewellguitar]

I’d really love to see you guys include miles (or km) per kilowatt hour when your review EVs. Not buying gas is great, but if your EV doesn’t get 3 miles/kwh, it’s not very energy efficient. The Teslas are pretty great at 4 or higher miles per kWh, some brands not so much. Love the show of course 🎉

[@14TacomaDR]

The dealers want to charge you up to 1000.$ for paperwork. And lowball you on your trade. Then try to add extras like undercoating , warranty etc. And I would not call any vehicle price reasonable today. They keeping inventory low to keep prices high.

[@msmoniz]

If well maintained, unless there were inherent design or manufacturing issues with said engines or transmissions, a 15-20 year old car from the last 30 years, as a rule, WILL NOT ever require a engine or transmission rebuild.

[@michaels3003]

True.

[@mauricetremblay1324]

Long live the ICE! Engagement, power, dynamics, sound that does not come from a speaker,longevity….

[@sciencesimplifiedsudan554]

If the id7 is a first gen ev what was the e golf?

[@ajc3731]

Love watching your posts. Your comments just reinforce that I am not going to buy an EV at this time. I think it will take decades to convert today consumers over to EV's due to their costs, lack of range, charging time and accessibility. The government should stop forcing them onto consumers with phase out dates planned for combustion engines.

[@joe97nsx]

That's what activist governments do. They cause massive dislocations in markets (real estate, automobiles) and blame everyone else for the problems.

[@squirreldriver]

I think there is a big difference between a traditional hybrid having a 10+ year battery life, and an EV which is plugging into DC fast charging (and running through full battery cycles on long commutes. The two messages here are: 1. Buy a regular hybrid if you care about long term resale value. 2. Buy a regular hybrid if you care about long term resale value. Technically this is only one message, but it's such a good one it's worth repeating.

[@lenm2857]

Just saw a photo of a Lightning odometer that showed 100,000 miles (the guy must never stop!!), still had 98% battery life. The new batteries are better than ones from 10 years ago.

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

We are at 3rd generation EVs. First was the Tesla Roadster, Model S along with the Nissan Leaf. 2nd Gen is the Bolt, Kia e-Niro, Kona EV and 3rd is the Ioniq 5, 6 and Kia EV6. We are definitely not at Gen. 1. As a former owner of EVs, I would recommend waiting another 5 - 10 years for the charging infrastructure to improve, better battery tech by that time too. If a manufacturer can't repair the vehicle, don't buy it.

[@vancity2349]

Cant repair what?

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

@@vancity2349 The modular battery, that's what. Edit: their software updates leave much to be desired too. Kia use the same platform and battery yet they can repair it but Hyumdai do not train their techs nor provide the necessary lift to support the battery. Not good. Hyundai must replace their battery. MotorMouth did a couple of videos about this.

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

@@vancity2349 Their own batteries! For some reason my original response was deleted.

[@sciencesimplifiedsudan554]

Tell them.

[@vancity2349]

@@ScubaSteveCanada Are you referring to the Hyundai incident in Vancouver with the Ioniq 5?

[@Ela-cw7fi]

The one thing to look out for is solid-state batteries. But even those will take quite a long time. Today’s EVs generally rely on lithium-ion batteries. These use a liquid electrolyte to conduct electricity. Solid-state batteries replace this liquid with a solid, often ceramic material. Their primary advantage is that it allows manufacturers to pack about two times more energy into the same space. Imagine a 500-pound, solid-state battery with the same range as today’s 1,000-pound lithium-ion packs. It can fully recharge in about 10 minutes, with less risk of fire. It’s also quick and cheaper to manufacture. The catch? Solid-state batteries remain expensive, resource intensive and hard to recycle. Once those obstacles are overcome, they could be a game changer. But commercial production may be three to five years away, and mass-market adoption a decade or more.

[@dansanger5340]

Solid state batteries might never come to market. Iterative improvement of current battery technology, especially LFP, might give us what we thought required solid state.

[@michaels3003]

Unfortunately, nobody has made a large battery or cells. There is an opinion that Toyota will use the new batteries in hybrid vehicles. They will be able to make and sell many more hybrids than EVs with the limited production of the S-S cells.

[@billurban1581]

@@michaels3003that opinion you reference happens to be held by Gill Pratt, chief scientist at Toyota. Cost will relegate solid state to hybrids, PHEVS.

[@onlysublime]

There's also less maintenance for a toyota hybrid than a traditional ICE car. No starter. No alternator. A lot of ICE parts don't apply to a hybrid. The eCVT (different from a traditional cvt) can easily go 300k miles which is way better than any automatic or manual transmission.

[@vancity2349]

You left a whole lot more of ice engine maintenance and costs....fuel injectors, rad flush, oils fluid flushes, transmission servicing, spark plugs, filters, timing belts, O2 sensors, and the famous Shop Supplies the Stealerships love to add to all bills...

[@onlysublime]

@@vancity2349 yes some of those don't apply to hybrids either

[@realdeal8607]

I just saw a KZbin ad with you two about how to check the coolant. What’s up with that?

[@Motormouth...]

Yes, are we did that last year

[@andreaspencer9813]

Yes we did an ad for the company and they are running that ad on KZbin.

[@watchfuleye275]

Is there any possibility of reviewing the Subaru Forester? Read there is going to be a Hybrid version.

[@andreaspencer9813]

The hybrid will be available as a 2026 model. We'll be driving the new Forester gas model at the end of May.

[@Axr24have]

Yeah, i have a ‘23 Ioniq 5. Bought it cash so no lease or loan. I’ll be honest, i like the car, I like driving by $2/L fuel without havig to buy any. I didn’t put a lot of long term thought into owning an EV, I’ve not done that with any daily driver that I’ve owned. I really think the high cost of battery replacement is an availability issue, one that industry will figure out, eventually. If you take care to charge the car properly you should get the longevity out of the battery.

[@robertt9342]

77km one way work commute, hybrids and EVs are sound appealing to me. What concerns me about hybrids is the increased electro-mechanical complexity.

[@mannythegoodguy]

BlackBerry is the BEST.

[@robocop581]

Sure, in 2006

[@juztinl9535]

Right now, you can get a tesla model 3 2018/19 for under 30g half of what it was new. I could only imagine that as the battery degrades, it will be harder and harder to sell evs nobody will want that battery replacement bill.

[@user-ek9nx2jn7r]

Wait for the next generation to make any decision on an EV. They may not even be around, there are other alternatives.

[@vancity2349]

Ha ha funny...

[@jsfbay1]

Why oh why does the new Signia not have a heads-up display? The much cheaper new Camry has one! I just don't get it. I can't remember this moment but it seems there are some other blatant omissions that soured me on it when Toyota first brought it to some auto shows.

[@DCfocal]

I buy and depreciate based on $3500 value after ten years. Anything more is a bonus. If I can make my EV last 10-12 years than it was and will be the cheapest total ownership. cost. My polestar was $50k so the ten year cost is $4650 with minimal energy cost. Definitely less than running an ICE car.

[@mikepelk]

I’ve heard the most economical way is by a car with a great reputation for reliability and high resale like a Honda or Toyota (I have one of each lol) buy a 4 year old car with 100 km or so on it keep it til 8 years old then sell it to buy another 4 year old car. There should be a 24 month lease on EVs cheap then trade it in like a cell phone

[@elbowsout6301]

I actually just watched a really good video of Matt Watson at CarWow where he bought the cheapest used EV he could find and it was an 11 year old Leaf. He tests the range vs what it had new and interviews a guy that rebuilds the battery packs for them. Very interesting video if you have to time to watch it. The Leaf from 11 years ago still had about 75% of it's battery's health left. I don't believe that Leaf even had a battery management system back then. Most people nowadays are bored of their cars after a few years and want something new regardless of whether its an EV, ICE or Hybrid. I personally can't imaging hanging onto the same car for 10 years.

[@michaels3003]

BMS for a battery pack is not optional.

[@GlennLaycock]

Battery Insurance - so if I blew up my gas motor and it was like $10,000 for a new one - does insurance cover those crazy expensive repairs? I'm kind of wondering if battery insurance is should be like a form of extended warranty (which is a form of insurance). I'm surprise ordinary insurance covers it.

[@vancity2349]

There are way more gas engine fires than batteries another over exaggeration

[@gregorynp]

Bought a Certified 2023 EQS 450+ sedan 6 months ago before the EV Market crashed. MSRP $109,000 USD for $89,000. Thought I had great deal. Recent trade in values are under $45,000 now. Ugh

[@gshsr1]

Leasing a vehicle is a perpetual monthly payment.

[@acchaladka]

If you run a business and can deduct the cost, it's a perfect solution.

[@paininthepatoot]

Battery replacement costs are bad but resale value is worse for EV's.

[@jj8383]

Hey y'all I've decided that Andrea really loves the sound of her own voice quite frankly. I don't think that is "weird" since she's probably been the prom queen / cheerleader since her long-since-passed youth 😉

[@josephpanozzo4815]

Remember when GM had the EV 1 back in 1996, it was only available as a lease? Leasing an EV today is the best way to go, if you want an EV. You wouldn’t want to keep a laptop computer 15 years either.