Quick update: Trying out some Driven HR2 10W30 oil on the 1990 Toyota pickup 22RE

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@poivre22 11 ай бұрын

I've always questioned the effectiveness of AFR adjustment via the AFM. When the ECU goes into closed loop mode, it attempts to adjust the AFR to stoich via the O2 sensor by applying a dynamic offset to the injection duration calculation. This offset is eventually learned and applied as a long-term correction factor to the injection duration calculation (up to 20% in either direction for some Toyota ECMs). The idea is to minimize the "effort" of the dynamic correction in closed loop mode and accommodate for slight variations in each engine. So any change made to the AFM spring tension (within reason) will be nulled by the learned correction factor, even in open loop mode. The learned correction factor can be read from Vf in the diagnostic port using a MM with the engine in closed loop mode (hot and off idle). 2.5V indicates no correction, 2.5V indicates rich bias (i.e. engine is running too lean). 1.25V to 3.75V is considered normal. My understanding, anyway, and I have been known to be wrong on occasion. 🙂

@ray5961 11 ай бұрын

Yes, you are exactly correct. I see you have been studying the TCCS manual very closely :-) Adjusting the clicks on the AFM does bring up the question you pose there, since the ECU is always working to regain an ideal A/F ratio through feedback from the O2 sensor - and it does store a correction value as you point out. So if that is the case - at least for closed loop operation, which we find ourselves in most commonly - you do have to ask the question if adjusting the AFM spring tension makes any difference. I have seen indication on my wide band controllers that under open loop operation, it does have some impact on A/F ratios. As far as during closed loop cruising, it's difficult to say for sure; however, what I can say is that it does seem to manifest itself in gas mileage. When I was running my AFM 1 or 2 clicks richer, gas mileage took a big hit. When I restored it to the factory setting and 1-click more lean, gas mileage immediately improved several miles per gallon around town. I recently tried 2 clicks more lean, but did not see the same linear increase in gas mileage that I was expecting. I may do further testing, but for now I'm more concerned with overall drive-ability, so for now running at 1-click more lean. I think in order to push the A/F ratio very lean or very rich, you probably would need another ECU (or at least a piggy back ECU) to take over more control. Maybe you can push the Toyota ECU "a little" one way or the other, but I think your basic stance that it's going to always fight you (in terms of attempting to correct the ratio) is not only correct, but can be seen in real time by watching the wide band controller while driving. I know when driving in my truck, the A/F (in lambda) constantly flips back and forth on either side of 1.0 as I'm driving along. Typically 1.03 to .97 - back and forth, back and forth. Adjusting the AFM spring doesn't really seem to affect the area that the ECU likes to bounce around in while cruising along the highway. So yeah, I think your understanding of everything is 100% on the money there.

@poivre22 11 ай бұрын

@@ray5961 As you probably know, narrow band O2 sensors have a highly non-linear output. Near 1.0 lambda (0.45V), the voltage vs lambda curve is very steep. In closed loop, the ECU knows its on the money when oscillation occurs around the high gain part of the curve. So it makes sense that your wideband sees the result of the ECU trimming back and forth at 1+ Hz. It is my interpretation that the correction factor also affects open loop, but I may very well be wrong, as the TCCS training manual is not very clear on the details. If it doesn't, then maybe that's why you see a change in fuel mileage. I have measured Vf while driving around, and mine seems to hop around between 0.9V and 1.5V, which I don't completely understand. I was expecting a steady voltage for the learned correction factor. At idle, it sits at around 0.9V. For WOT throttle or engine deceleration (i.e. open loop mode), it drops to 0V. Not sure what to make of this, other than maybe my engine tends to favor running rich. Speaking of TCCS, Autoshop101.com has some good documentation that complements the TCCS manual. Check out the "Toyota Series Electrical" articles. Interestingly, the hyperlinks on the webpage end at Section 15. But there are a ton of hidden pdfs from section "h20" up to "h44" if you manually type in the numbers in the address bar. You'll know what I mean if you check it out. Despite the strange looks I get from my wife, it does make for some fine evening reading material. 🙂

@ray5961 11 ай бұрын

@@poivre22 I'll check the links out, thanks. I bought an old 0-5V voltage meter and was going to install it in the dash and wire it up to the VF output in order to monitor things in real time while driving. I never did that, but I did check the voltage levels while making adjustments and like you saw also, it seems to be kind of all over the place. Since I'm planning to replace the 22RE with a turbo charged 3RZ down the road, I probably won't dig too much deeper into exactly what the 22RE ECU is doing. On the 3RZ project, I'll most likely run a Link ECU and setup my own engine management using that. Toyota's approach to things is pretty cool though - and I agree that reading the TCCS manual is a great way to spend an evening :)

@poivre22 11 ай бұрын

@@ray5961 I’ve thought about doing the 5V gauge as well. 😀. My theory is that my steady reading at idle (0.9V) is the learned correction factor, and when driving (closed loop), it is the learned correction factor + the dynamic O2 adjustment, as it oscillates between 0.9 and 1.5V at the same rate as when I monitor the raw O2 sensor voltage. But who knows. The good news for you is that you’ll be in OBD2 Land with the 3RZ. The sky’s the limit!

@ray5961 11 ай бұрын

@@poivre22 I certainly would love to see the original source code for the ECU :)

@russellwilkey390 11 ай бұрын

I'm so happy I live in a county in GA that don't have inspections so my 93 don't have a converter, just a header two foot of pipe a flow master 40 and out the back,by the way love your videos

@ray5961 11 ай бұрын

Thanks man! Yeah, I knew a guy who lived out in GA in the 90's and he was running a 13B in his car lol. He's like "no inspections, it's heaven" haha

@johnswennumsom5258 11 ай бұрын

I’ve used Joe Gibbs BR 30 for all my engine rebuild break-ins periods and never had any problems. Recommended by every engine builder I know of. Never thought about using Gibbs non break in oil for running after break in, it can’t be a bad idea though. I may look into getting a case of this stuff too. I use the (also builder recommended) factory Toyota filters. Don’t have an issue with K&N though. I’m betting the K&N is ultimately better than the Toyota filter? I’ve been running Valvoline just regular 10-30 just because I like the pour spout. Ray, I really wish we lived closer to each other, as we’d get along just fine geeking out on our trucks. I’ve also been fixing up an old 84 Tercel 4WD. That car is amazingly fun to work on and play with. Not many around though, which is too bad.

@ray5961 11 ай бұрын

The K&N oil filter seems to be pretty good. I used to run them on my Yamaha R1 and had real good luck. There are some good reviews on KZbin which cut the filters apart and K&N usually is well regarded. I don't know who makes the filters for Toyota, but my guess would be Denso maybe? This is the break-in oil I used on the 22RE and it seemed to work fine. I believe I ran it for 100 or 200 miles maybe www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00INXYZH0/ - I think my little sister had a Toyota Tercel back in the day (maybe in the 90's). I worked on it once or twice for her.. I'll have to ask her what year it was.

@johnswennumsom5258 11 ай бұрын

@@ray5961another really nice thing about the Toyota filters, is that they are relatively inexpensive. I think I get them for between $3-4 on Amazon every few years, as I order a case on Amazon every so often etc. Yeah Ray, I was wondering what/why that Fram was on that beautiful motor as well 😊. I’m also wondering where you got the nice wire band clamps for your intake boots there in the video? Hoping you have a good place cheaper than LCE et al. I had one on my TBody boot many years ago, but have resorted to band-screw clamps. With my many vehicles and years of 22RE experience, I’ve seen all sorts of vacuum leaks happen at those boots and pipe. Having the good wire clamps ensures they don’t leak. After all, there’s quite a lot of vacuum created through the intake. So, what I do is smear a VERY thin coat of Vaseline or dielectric grease on the inside of the boots mating surfaces. That practice also keeps the rubber supple and from leaking. It’s funny, way back when I started driving old-ish (at the time) Toyota trucks, to replace that bent elbow boot on the TBodies was crazy expensive. I bought one from O’Reillys for like $100 15 years ago. Now those boots are available on Rock Auto, Evil bay, and Amazon for under $20, it’s real nice, and I have one from Amazon on my last remaining 95 22RE pickup at the moment. They’re not bad at all, and it’s been on there probably 4 years now and still in good shape.

@ray5961 11 ай бұрын

@@johnswennumsom5258 Yeah, I was able to find that rubber elbow on amazon for around $15 or $20 as I remember. Mine was cracked and falling apart when I bought the truck originally. Some of the clamps are extra Toyota ones I had around. A couple are these here: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XC5VT32 - but I had to re-bend the ends as I recall to make them fit well. They aren't quite as well made as the Toyota ones, but pretty close (maybe 8/10th's).

@e49erss 9 ай бұрын

5w30 valvoline extended performance+high mileage or Schaefers both of them use some zinc additive and marvel mystery oil. Always stick to Purolator filters as they filter and flow the best compared to many other filters including fram and k&n there’s a KZbinr who does tests on here. Have you ever tried using atf rather than dexron in transmission?

@ray5961 9 ай бұрын

I've seen some of those videos where they test the oil filter flow.. pretty cool. On my transmission I use Motul or Liqui Moly gear oil typically, but I have heard of people using straight ATF in there (talking about manual gearboxes right?) I've never tried it myself, but seems legit I think.

@e49erss 9 ай бұрын

@@ray5961 Talking about automatic I was planning on using Redline high temp atf(figured out that it can be used instead of Dexron II/III). Also wanted to try out Hot Shot Shift Restore and see how the transmission feels. My transmission shifts fine haven’t done a fluid change in like 30k miles have you ever tried any of that out?

@ray5961 9 ай бұрын

@@e49erss Not a super huge fan of redline stuff. Check out Motul's ATF line. That's what I'd use.

@JamesBowling-vy8eq 11 ай бұрын

I have been using Royal Purple with their filters. Any thoughts on RP Products? Thanks

@ray5961 11 ай бұрын

I've never used it myself, but it's popular with the Ferrari and exotic car guys on Ferrarichat and stuff. I like Motul a lot. Valvoline or Motul is usually what I run. Liqui Moly is also good.

@ElSabio2929 11 ай бұрын

Brother FRAM is the best for me because I change oil every 3,000 miles and I use Valvoline Regular conventional oil 10w30 what is recommended for old engine even know I just put a brand knew block on it

@ray5961 11 ай бұрын

Valvoline oil is great. I'm probably gonna switch back to it next oil change. FRAM is okay also :)

@tempura7690 11 ай бұрын

Call me crazy but I put 20w-50 in my carbureted 22r. My Hanes manual said I could use it as long as I am in the temperature zone, and I do live in a tropical climate where the coldest is 74F. What do you think? Is my oil pump working too hard? My engine does sound quieter. I do want to try shell t4 Rotella 15w-40. Best.

@ray5961 11 ай бұрын

20W50 is pretty thick. I have run the 15W40 Shell T4 Rotella stuff in my truck over here (when it is around 75-80F outside); you ain't missing much. Personally, I would stick to Valvoline 10W40 for higher temps up to 90-100F outside. Toss in some Lucas ZDDP and call it good. The super thick oils may not flow into the bearings well if cold and that can have negative affects on bearing life. When I pulled my connecting rod bearings out, they very definitely showed wear and contact. I don't know if that was from me fooling around with engine oils or engine flush stuff or if it was just the engine was old or the people who built it didn't know what they were doing. 10W40 seems like a good all around oil. Either Valvoline or Motul is my favorite usually. I'll probably switch back to Motul next time around... either 5W30 or 10W40 depending on what time of year.

@tempura7690 11 ай бұрын

@@ray5961 Sounds good. Thanks!

@chago520 9 ай бұрын

Hey Ray, question I just buy 94 Toyota 22RE and the guy that I buy it from he told me that he did the rebuilt engine but the only thing is bad is that came chef I was wondering do you work in someone else vehicle. if you do you think you can work on my truck. let me know. Thank you. I live in Southern California.

@ray5961 9 ай бұрын

Hey congratulations on the truck. I only work on my own cars, so wouldn't be able to help too much.

@chago520 9 ай бұрын

OK…thank you.

@funkytown9822 10 ай бұрын

What's your oil change interval? (Months and miles?)

@ray5961 10 ай бұрын

I usually try to keep it some place between 3500 and 5000 on the truck. With my Yamaha R1, never over 1250 miles ever and/or every summer. When I drop the 3RZ turbo into the truck, that will be every 2500 miles or 12 months, due to the turbo, etc. Oil changes are a lot cheaper and easier than changing your main bearings.