ASOIAF Theories: Who Speaks From The Flames?

The worship of Fire is known in various real-world religions. the term fire worshiper is associated with the Zoroastrian religion. Zoroastrianism What is a monotheistic religion which centered around a Creator God but also contains a dualistic element a cosmology of good and eternally at odds. Fire was considered to be a symbol of Purity and righteousness a fire burns ever upward and cannot itself be polluted.
in A Song of Ice and Fire of the worship of the R'hllor seems to be based quite a bit on Zoroastrianism. In The red woman fire religion her God the benevolent r'hllor is at constant odds with a being known as the great other who is a champion of darkness and the antithesis to everything that her god is. A priest of r'hllor can receive messages or instructions from their God by staring into the flames and interpreting what they see. Melisandre Understands that this is not an exact process and that it is an art that must be learned and honed over years.
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[@vampiregirl258]

One of my biggest theory is that Blood Raven, himself has been influencing people and shaping history. If he really can see into the past and future, then he knows thing that others could never imagine. Maybe he the one who gave Daenerys the knowledge of how to birth dragons and just maybe he is moving all these people to where he need them.

[@alanpennie8013]

PaladinponyT Indeed. There are puppet masters in this universe.

[@clay1430]

R'holler is absolutely one of the most interesting characters in the series. He's felt everywhere, even outside of the Red Priests, all these things hint at him being real but even still there's no concrete answer. I hope we get another video on him.

[@jakecruz9828]

They skipped too many important characters, in the show.

[@555nmm]

Zoe Kouf he's important for dany's arc. defeating the mummer's dragon and all that

[@jakecruz9828]

I thought Young Griff was going to be real important until they skipped him. Makes me think some of the theories about him, aren't true. Some of the characters, more centralized to the current plot, like Moqorro and Lady Stoneheart. I don't see how they're going to continue the story the same way without them. I guess, I'll find out, soon enough.

[@hindsightpov4218]

Casualties of book to screen adaptations.

[@jakecruz9828]

@@hindsightpov4218, yes they were and I'm not surprised, with a story as complex as this one. That we were going to lose a lot. We seemed to lose more magical characters, than I would have expected. I've always wondered if there was a legitimate reason for it or does D&D have a prejudice twords magic?

[@hindsightpov4218]

jake cruz It could be the case Dan and Dave kept the magic on GoT to a minimum to keep the show from feeling too hokey. So much of the show is grounded in reality so to inject as much magic in it as the books are may have been to much in their eyes.

[@arnekrug939]

You easily could have streched the video beyond 10 minutes but you chose not to, kudos to you.

[@dirhammohamad3890]

Whats the problem if he made 10min video?

[@arnekrug939]

@@dirhammohamad3890 I think they can put more advertisment in the video if it is over 10 minutes long, so you will often see videos that are 10:01minutes long and at least to me it feels forced and unnatural.

[@kristopherbarker3282]

@@dirhammohamad3890 and I think hr likes to keep his videos short. You know, give is a quick explanation, and let us get back to our lives Clear, concise, complete

[@dirhammohamad3890]

@@arnekrug939 ooooh, didnt know that, thanks.

[@dirhammohamad3890]

@@kristopherbarker3282 yea thats good

[@brianstiles1701]

A Dune video AND an ASOIAF video an hour apart? Absolute madman

[@toneriggz]

They speak to the one true God, GRRM.

[@thegrimknight9766]

Our savior GRRM will defeat the others d&d

[@RainBird88x]

Kinda like real gods then...

[@bore-osofmyr2539]

Tone Riggz I know George prides himself in writing against expectation and turning story telling models on their head, but he has created lots of detail rich mysteries and plots and if he doesn’t eventually answer them then this series will be a long, rambling, nonsensical bunch of garbage.

[@lbentosoares4]

@mdx haven't all writters done just that? I mean, no one truly creates thinga, but mix experiences, stories they like, myths, archetypes and make a story out of this mixture

[@kolsveinnskraevolding]

@mdx Yeah, and?

[@Rubashow]

To gain more knowledge of the forces behind the voices in the flames you must go to Oldtown and seek the writings of Abdul Alhazred, the mad Lhazareen.

[@blackflagsnroses6013]

The question is whether gods exist or was magic given theological concepts. Is there just magic, or does it come from deities? Are the time seeing greenseers influencing events or laid foundations for what’s to come?

[@jamesleon4883]

there are gods of some sort, but its still a mystery which ones exactly. The seasons in the world are the way they are through some other force and were not always like that. I personally think the seven gods are the real ones as the baby with the sword is a god in Georges other stories as well.

[@floraoddchild3185]

Illyrio mopatis is a follower of R'hllor. I believe he purportrated Daenery's first betrayal, the one for blood, when he put the gold neck cuff with valyrian glyphs engraved into it on Daenery's neck just before bringing her to Drogo's manse in book one. All of Daenerys fire dreams start after that night. We get that information from Daenery's point of view - a scared overwhelmed 13yr old about to be sold off to a stranger. We dont know everything that went on that night, or if some kind of ceremony was also carried out. I think there was. I think we'll find out she was bound to R'hllor right there and then. Thats why she was called "bride of fire" by the undying ones. I think she was doomed from her very first chapter, by illyrio and Varys. And R'hllor is most likely some form of fire worm that survived the doom of Valyria. The book is loaded with eel, worm and snake references, meat slathering off the bone and crap dripping on peoples faces. The house of black and white probably keeps the worm around in its underground tunnels. The pool they drink from there is a pool of collected venom. That would be something straight out of the Prose Edda and the binding of Jormungand and Loki. Jormungand being a dragon/fire worm and loki having venom dripped on his face. Drinking the venom kills, unless you drink small doses over and over, than it makes you immortal - which is also heavily implied in the books by all of Arya's fruit throwing.

[@dustinsmith2021]

Post this same thing in a Lucifer means lightbringer video.

[@camthemam235]

flora Oddchild how many died at the wedding? Would those be considered blood sacrifices?

[@floraoddchild3185]

I'm not sure. I think it was more about just binding Daenerys for future use and the Dothraki were just being Dothraki. But of course I could be wrong. What's confusing is that Martin blurs the lines between different mythologies. You cant say with certainty "well in Norse mythos this is what is actually happening" because what you've just read could fit more inline within a Greek or Roman, or Japanese or Native American mythological narrative. But that is also kind of the genius of ASOIAF as well. What I believe is that ASOIAF is a meticulously crafted heavily coded saga that tells three stories at once. You have your at face value story, ned, robert, Daenerys etc. But, you also have this enormously coded story that relies heavily on mythos from across the globe that ends up telling the same tragic tales over and over of rape, bastards, lusty men taking what they please, cruel society casting out wonton and abused women alike, and women becoming vengeful, very very vengeful. But then there's also an extermination campaign of the gods going on. This one I just figured out actually. Black blood, kings blood, maesters sniffing wounds, krasters baby boy factory - it all boils down to Ichor. Ichor is the blood of the gods. Greeks revered it, Roman's found it foul and putrid but also claimed they could smell it and could decide which type of god a person was born from. Melisandre, the brave companions in the riverlands, they're exterminating the offspring of the gods. I have more theories on that I'm not 100% certain about just yet. But I do think Brianne is a Valkyrie. And there's the an example of the problem, you have a Norse Valkyrie getting caught up in the riverlands indirectly fighting over Greek and Roman Ichor.

[@kneau]

flora Oddchild you’re clearly ready for _Sandkings,_ a “collection of science fiction short stories by George R. R. Martin” published in 1981. For now, focus on just one of the seven stories: *_In the House of the Worm_* (The Ides of Tomorrow, 1976).

[@ohhhmindy4380]

flora Oddchild this is ingenious.

[@JayPenrake]

As much as I agree with your opinions of the show, and the comparisons you do, these lore videos are always so much more special! They're gold.

[@RoboBoddicker]

I noticed a while ago that “The night is dark, and full of terrors” is a direct inversion of a line from the Exsultet sung at Catholic Easter Vigil mass: “Dazzling is the night for me, and full of gladness.” This line refers to Exodus, where God appeared as a pillar of flame that lit up the night and led the Israelites out of Egypt. The Exsultet says the pillar of flame also represents the resurrection of Christ who will banish the darkness of sin. Sounds a lot like R’hllor and the Lord of Light to me. Just wanted to mention it ;)

[@TheSaintOfCaprica]

"They are not all accounted for, the lost Seeing Stones. We do not know who else may be watching!"- Gandalf

[@alexv3357]

In connection to flames, glass candles can be used to send messages through dreams and communicate across long distances, and fire may serve as a secondary delivery system for a glass candle's message

[@srf222]

I love how you work and how much you give to us. Thank you ❤

[@poopisfunny1321]

“The beings that move the pieces in THEIR world”...have you ever drawn any thematic(?) similarities between THEIR world and ours?

[@gaybroshevik4180]

Quin, I freaking miss listening to your theories and stories and YOU were the first and only one I subscribed to for asoiaf theories. Ever since 2016!!

[@cinemacola6398]

"Do you remember what you heard when he threw your parts in the fire? You heard a voice from the flames do you remember?" *Chills*

[@MarilynRB]

All I gotta say is they better answer this question in the books and show! Too much talk of it to not pay it off...

[@lucasnascimentoferreira6048]

Who asks him that? I cant remember LOL

[@alanpennie8013]

@@lucasnascimentoferreira6048 It is the red priestess Kinvara (a show only character I believe)

[@alanawrisley2860]

Show NEVER answered!!

[@christophertracy7272]

Mellisandre has been reading the flames 4 centuries! On the show I was disappointed that they never showed us any vision in the flames and they could have! Even in the first Narnia movie we saw the flames turn into satyrs and dance and that was years before the show!

[@msuarez1005]

What a fun channel you have. Really enjoy the style.

[@diannapitts3375]

You and LML are my Favorite KZbinrs♡♡♡♡♡ thank you so much for your videos!!!

[@Bl00dBl055um]

I am not entirely convinced the great other and LOL aren't aspects of the same god playing some game with or testing humanoids somehow. The only real source we have saying they oppose each other is Melisandre and she is wrong a lot.

[@barreloffun10]

I've wondered about this myself. Going by the show (very iffy, I know) why did the Hound have a vision in the flames that led to a catastrophe, the NK getting a dragon and breaking through the Wall. Also, when the priest who rescued the Hound was wondering which of the gods were true "maybe it's all the same damn thing, I don't know."

[@amandalee9478]

Great video as always.Thank you love your channel.

[@christophertracy7272]

Always love your videos. I also am SMH over S7, they better come through next year!

[@kachya]

I knew about this through writing an essay about the religions in the middle east and Egypt in ancient history last year, and let me tell you, I was shook to the core to find out about Zoroastrianism and it's similarities to the faith of R'hllor,or rather, vice versa.

[@RamkrishanYT]

This channel gives me chills

[@lady_wasser]

Amazing job as always!

[@CaptCKernel]

Idk if moqorro actually healed Victarion. The pus still need drained after moqorro "heals" it meaning it's not completely healed, at best healing

[@IamAmericasDaughter]

Nice catch, I love it!

[@Ironorchids]

amazing video! thank you for the book marks btw

[@rastiga9196]

Excellent point about multiple Gods/Demons/Both can use the flames as their instrument. I have long thought that it was one of two Gods but you pointed out maybe more. Martin isn't going to tell us but loves the mystery of it.

[@AdrianMendoza23]

What is you're opinion on the character in the show: Kinvara? Her title is "High Priestess of the Red Temple of Volantis, the Flame of Truth, the Light of Wisdom, and First Servant of the Lord of Light". Kinvara asks Varys if he wanted to know who spoke in the flame and what it said.

[@cb2291]

Great work, keep it up man

[@codybergman5991]

First of all, great video! Loved it. Second, I do notice you need to balance the background music to your voice a little bit, especially around 3:32. The music swelled at that point and it was hard to hear you speaking over the music. Just a little constructive criticism.

[@wileyschmitt]

Anyone here ever woke up from sleep and wasn't able to move or speak?

[@mazamonty710]

Yeah and it's terrifying. Feels like it's happening over minutes but it's seconds. It's sleep paralysis.. basically your mind wakes up before your body does. The body paralyses certain limbs to stop us hurting ourselves when we are asleep...this fails in sleepwalkers etc. ASP Awareness during Sleep Paralysis

[@wileyschmitt]

Yes it is terrifying indeed, and I thought it was kind of interesting how Martin sorta vaguely describes it in that flashback about Varys, not being able to speak or move and hearing a voice, very similar to what happens during sleep paralysis. I'm still not completely convinced about it happening during sleep as a way for us to not act out our dreams, though most people assume that is the case since science has prematurely deemed it to be so. I had this happen to me about once to twice a week for a good chunk of time (about a year or so) and was not fun having to pretty much keep it to myself since attempting to tell people about it did not go well at all, and this was back around 1995 and there was no internet to try and reach out for help, I thought I was completely alone being terrorized often at night in various ways, but 20 years later and I find out that it's actually quite common but most people decide not to tell anyone about it happening to them.

[@mazamonty710]

Ah my experience was when I was much younger and only happened a few times but, still very memorable. I learned to try not to panic and let it pass. I had terrors the first time tbh, thought something was sitting on my chest!! After that I still fought the panic... but it got much easier. Then I just lay and let it pass...it felt quite surreal. Of course I told EVERYBODY lol Your experience sounds lonely and terrifying. I had an aunt who helped me.

[@wileyschmitt]

You were wise to try and just let it pass, it took me a bit to figure that out, but when I did it led to out of body experiences which were a whole new crop of baffling stuff to try and explain to people, I thought I was being abducted as I'd often be floating near my ceiling, or even in the sky above my house, and being only 14-15 years old I had nothing to base it all on. Out of body can be great if you know what's going on, super enlightening in fact, but otherwise is just plain weird if ignorant and scared as I was, and entities (or thought forms) are not uncommon at all to make things even more bizarre. When out of body you can travel literally anywhere you want, which I only did once on accident and ended up downtown to some desolate streets, which later made more sense to me since it was around 3 AM. Sorry to go on and on, it still always trips me out to think about, and there's always so much to tell and discuss on this subject.

[@mazamonty710]

Oh my. I was going to say that I'm sure I was astral flying!! I didn't want to mention it in case you thought me a weird hippy lol. I went (flew over) back gardens on streets I only new from their front gardens. Years later, I got a look when a friend moved there and it was exactly as I saw it. I must say that I don't remember a direct connection to sleep paralysis... I just found myself there flying almost like a dream until I became "aware". Then I could control where I went. I wish THAT had happened more often...I like flying lol

[@adrianburchell8075]

i believe Rh'llor and the Great Other are the one and same, thought it from the very beginning

[@ariarion137]

its the third eye raven

[@rheeventures8144]

I just love your videos 🔥🔥🔥💙💙

[@rafaelrobles8777]

I have the theory that GRR Martin took inspiration from the bene gesserit, in public they look like simple priest but in reality they are the ones moving the strings and manipulating the characters to achieve their own goals.

[@vampiregirl258]

IdeasOfIceAndFire, could you please do a video on Varys and his possible connection to House Blackfyre? It would be great to hear your thought on this theory.

[@joeward7276]

That was such a good video

[@Jabreel.N]

Dope video. Dope music.

[@wileyschmitt]

Great video, well done! Made me want to read all the books over again, and I just got on the GOT bandwagon this year, but I'm enjoying the Dunk and Egg stories at the moment and looking forward to that history of the Targaryens coming soon. Is that 'World of Ice and Fire' book worth getting? I haven't seen one at the book store I go to and would pick it up if I did, but I have so much to read at the moment I don't know if I'd be able to make room for it and finish it before that Targaryen book comes out.

[@keel6826]

The book is VERY worth it. Many many clues and the book itself is full of amazing pictures GRRM chose himself. Pick it up!

[@wileyschmitt]

Right on, thanx for the insight, will get it soon. I'm glad I got into Martin's world when I did, very late but not having to wait nearly as long for the next epic chapter and still able to fully catch up.

[@Kyrielsh1]

You'll wait long enough for the last book, don't worry, you won't be spared ;-)

[@wileyschmitt]

Nah the timing will be perfect, I have so much to read til then, but then again who doesn't.

[@poorboy2772]

You're a legend

[@LadyJinni]

I would like to see a blooper reel from you

[@andruandspanky]

Random: Where was Lyanna when she was allegedly kidnapped?

[@ferodrigues1211]

I like the grand northern conspiracy theory that would be a cool video

[@lbonts]

ah well what people also tend not to consider is that freezing is technically a kind of burn too, it's why you don't put ice on a burn

[@Kyrielsh1]

I don't know if I'd say "technically", since physically speaking they are quite the opposite (you agitate molecules when you heat, you slow them down when you cool)...

[@kaleomungin]

RIP use of the word "technically"

[@lbonts]

with both ice burns and heat burns temperature changes the water in the cells and causes them to rupture

[@burnsboysaresoldiers]

So you cover the deep ones, the shadow lands, and the church of the star wisdom and the bloodstone emperor. Do you think any of it will arise in TWOW or ASOS

[@dark_fire_ice]

The Romans called my ancestors fire singers :), but that was because the fire spirit was also the guardian of the house and the primary form of worship was song

[@christiancristof491]

Who are your ancestors?

[@Lahirukevin]

Do you think that the sacrifice subject must go through the pain of burning and that shock, to the nurvours system is nessasary for the fire sacrifice to work?

[@edwardmartin5860]

The twist and curves of the flames as shadows dance from the light given,as the dark lurkes in it's mist.If the stary wisdom is there a flip side to there organization?

[@rogueone849]

I was just hoping earlier today you'd post something. How do you feel about the God's? Do you think they exist? I know you talk extensively about the love raft like influences but do you believe those supernatural beings may be what the humans think are God's?

[@michaelstalkfleet6989]

varis means "crow" in Finnish. I think the 3 Eyed Crow was the voice in the flames, and he has been in Varys head ever since. Varys' mission from the 3EC is to destabilize Westeros and sow chaos and civil war so that it will be easier to invade. Varys claims to hate magic but he engages in blood sacrifices, he cuts out the tongues of his little birds and many or all of them end up dead. "Ned's mouth twisted in anger. 'Damn Varys and his little birds. Catelyn spoke truly, the man has some black art. I do not trust him.' "

[@TheGreatFoooL]

What is the name of that eerie soundtrack that you used for Varys’ commentary on magic?

[@QuinnsIdeas]

The Long Note by Kevin MacLeod

[@laordendelamanoverde1295]

I agree with you

[@laurafirewalker3567]

the thumbnail scared me lol

[@laurafirewalker3567]

aboomination fuck off i knew someone would comment this

[@VivekCNair-jy4ct]

Yes, it was from Zoroastrianism. At first it might appear G. R. R. M created something new, but not even this one is out of history. Bother reading how they're similar?? Even Christianity, Judaism, and Islam actually took some influences from this relatively more ancient belief, Zoroastrianism, one of the world’s oldest existing religions. All these are monotheistic; belief that there is only one God, the all-powerful creator of the world. If you see, the legends of the followers of R’hllor are not so different, as can be seen in the illustration of the savior Azor Ahai, who it is said will return and drive back the darkness. If you read the Zend-Avesta, God is presented as an omnipotent, supreme figure called Ahura Mazda (Ahura, the Lord Creator, and Mazda, Supremely Wise) who is believed to connect two spirits or two principles: the Spenta Mainyu, or the Good Spirit and Angra Mainyu, or the angry spirit. While the first represents an all-good “father” of Asha (truth, order, justice), the latter represents druj (falsehood and disorder). Ahura Mazda through the Spenta Mainyu is a life-giving creator who constantly opposes his evil Other, the spirit or principle born of Akəm Manah or “evil thinking”, an adversary that ultimately must be defeated. And the resulting conflict involves the entire universe, including humanity. The religion is ancient and its philosophy comes across as dualistic. This thought of eternal struggle and combat with an evil Other is hardly new, however, according to Zarathustra, or Zoroaster, the ancient Iranian prophet whose teachings developed into Zoroastrianism, this battle is fought within each person. In his writings, Zoroaster sees the human condition as the mental struggle between asha (truth) and druj (lie), and while there is only one God, human beings are given a right of choice, to follow principles of one or the other, to embrace the spirit of Spenta Mainyu or his contesting force. And when all of mankind chooses truth, order, and justice over falsehood and disorder, evil will finally be defeated and Paradise on earth will be realized. Thus clearly saying that every man could essentially be an Azor Ahai, if only one chooses to be. Parsis live in India whose ancestors were forced to flee Middle East during Islamic invasion. They took shelter here and practiced their religion which gave us knowledge about Zoroastrianism. Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism) was one of the religions which predates even Zoroastrianism and also one of the reasons Zoroastrianism is still existent.

[@Kyrielsh1]

"this battle is fought within each person": funny how pretty much all religions started the same way if you read carefully the texts and teachings of the founders: as some kind of metaphors for what happens inside the human conscience and sub-conscience. And is later promoted to some kind of literal interpretation of powerful gods and entities, losing somewhat the substance and interest of paving a way to wisdom and self-enlightenment...

[@Mofi357]

Ever heard of the chaos lords ??

[@VivekCNair-jy4ct]

@@Kyrielsh1 If you bother reading and knowing : Following the collapse of the Roman Empire around the fifth century, Christianity became the dominant force across Europe. Christianity was one of the religions which rose from Zoroastrianism along with Judaism and Islam. It's not clear which rose first but as per records it's Judaism but it's clear that Islam was the latest of them. Christians believed in one all-powerful God, who created humanity, and rules, for the betterment of humanity. The goal now was compliance, not defiance (as opposed to Greek philosophy of defiance and heroism which gave birth to Greek civilization and The Roman empire) which led to a place in the Promised Land on earth and Heaven in the afterlife. Unfortunately, humans kept breaking these rules. The Bible is full of stories of prophets and kings struggling to follow the Commandments laid down by God. There is constant reference to the martyrdom of the faithful who stand up for the faith. 1. This was the belief of Jewish tribes who roamed the deserts around the Levant and Mesopotamia since 2000 BCE. Their holy books, the Tanakh, are full of laws and negotiations of the prophets with God seeking to ensure humans lived the right way. This came to be known as Judaism. 2. This became the belief of Roman slaves, later Roman nobility, and finally the Roman royalty, but with one crucial difference: they believed Jesus to be Christ, the anointed one, the Son of God, who sacrificed himself out of love to save prodigal humanity. This was Christianity. 3. This belief also rose in Arabia in the seventh century where Jesus came to be seen as just one of many prophets, the last being Muhammad who transmitted the word of God through the book known as the Koran. This was Islam. All three of them bears striking resemblance to ancient Zoroastrianism on a structural level philosophically. It is important at this juncture to clarify that from the Indian point of view ( as I am a Hindu) Western thought stretches beyond Europe and America to include the Islamic world, for the quest for objectivity shapes Islam too. Just as Europe was torn between the Greek way and the biblical way and later the Protestant way and the Catholic way, the Islamic world was torn between the Sunni way, with its roots in Arabic tribal egalitarianism and the Shia way, with its roots in ancient Persian dynastic culture. Every denomination is convinced the other is wrong and that they are right. Everyone harbours a worldview that accommodates only one truth. Divinity in the Abrahamic faiths ( all three Christianity, Islam and Judaism) is always articulated as the Word of God and divine laws are always presented in written form (such as the Ten Commandments) that need to be read, indicating the objectivity of these laws. The covenant is valued greatly. The bond with God is not assumed; it has to be ritually enacted through circumcision or baptism and many other rituals. This reveals the deep-rooted need for documentation and written memorandums of understanding which would formalize humans into their community.

[@rishabmazumdar5635]

Dragons were so considered holy in zorastrianism.

[@diannapitts3375]

What does Zoroastrianism mean

[@nononono3421]

The show hints at at least two or three of the red priests knowing who Varys is, and what the voice told him, and the two times this is hinted or explicitly said (the red priest in Mereen specifically tells him she knows) Varys is spooked at the fact that they know what they should not. For someone who is always pulling the strings, the fact that some know what happened that night and what the voice told him worries him. He specifically warns Melisandre not come back, because it will be too dangerous for her, with a bit of an air of superiority. "Power resides where people believe it does", but when one has magic, it becomes an unfair advantage, something GRRM has specifically said himself before, with how if there were sorcerers then surely they would rule rather than just support someone without power. Varys wants to remove power from the world, so that his own power or powers like his can be put to their full use, which is manipulating people without the need for magic, through their own beliefs. Melisandre and co. know Varys wants to, somehow, remove magic from the world, and he now knows that they know it, which freaks him out.

[@edwardmartin5860]

Sorry i meant is there a rival enity to the stary wisdom?

[@WAR3600]

Maybe it's Bloodraven's voice

[@matthewbroestl3635]

I need to know more about the Great Other like right now, come the f on George!

[@libracat]

1. Varys was picked from a group of mummers. Instead of buying any other mummer boy, the wizard picked him. 2. Melissandra said there's power in king's blood. 3. Varys is bold at all time. Is this to hide some sort of Targaryen descent? A voice is heard from the fire (means the blood, perhaps, have power... confirming of his lineage) Egg did the same thing in the knight of seven kingdoms. 4. Blood Raven was into black magic even before he was blood raven. Was his becoming of the weirwood tree intended or was he captured by the tree later? Could he have been for the other side along with some of the children. Like men, there are the wisest men, and wisest children. Could it be, like men, there are some evil men, and evil children.

[@alanpennie8013]

Jamie Lee I would not be inclined to speak of good and evil Children in an absolute sense. But it does seem likely that there are different factions, some friendly to humanity, others hostile.

[@ivanvelez2069]

Rewatching

[@Zagardal]

I think Mel's poison resistance could still be explained in a realistic fashion. Doesn't mean she's not resistant to it, but she could've tricked Cressen.

[@crhettbuttler1]

I really think the many faced god is the opposing force to the church of the stary wisdom and Arya as a Faceless man must know of their follower's evil conduct. She disliked the Redwoman from the beginning and it is very likely she now knows more than an instinctual feeling that she will hurt Gendry - and other people. Jon also disapproves of her, I just wonder how this will turn out now that Dany has come to Westeros and has slept with Jon.

[@madambutterfly1997]

Bloodraven is a mouthpiece of the last greenseer who servers the great other

[@burnsboysaresoldiers]

Late to the game sorry. But why religion was practiced in Valyria? Was it the Red God?

[@alanpennie8013]

Brendan Burns. Nope. Valyria had it's own gods. But very little has been revealed about them

[@burnsboysaresoldiers]

Alan Pennie huh well it would make sense that it would be the red god wouldn’t it? If we follow the theory of valerian dragon knowledge coming from “those from the shadow” isn’t the red god religion founded in Ashai? Or was it the church of stary wisdom?

[@alanpennie8013]

R'hlorr worship may originate in Asshai but it's not certain. Volantis is another possibility.

[@allyriastark3508]

Valyrians had multiple Gods and named their dragons after them so their names are Urrax, Balerion, Vhagar, Meraxes, Arrax, Terrax, Caraxes, and Tessarion

[@unodos149]

So, turns out Moses was a Red Wizard the whole time. Burning Bush = Rhllor.

[@Sienisota]

I think fire is like do-it-yourself glass candle: A means to communicate through long distances using fire, if you know how, or have magical blood like wargs. Simply less reliable than glass candles, which have a built in connection to other glass candles. Cooking fires are accidental windows to this "fire Net", weak bloodmagic: Cooking meat, with juices falling to the flames. Fire itself is a sacrifice of fuel. Some people can "connect" to fires and see through them. But since it's hard to get your fire to "connect" to look through fire of someone else, people get vague images that need interpretation. I think these "fire windows" is a way for Others to spy into places with such a warm climate, they themselves wouldn't survive there. They have their own cold blue fire after all. And I think there are people (humans or not) in places like Asshai, (the currently implied most mystic/magic knowing city in SoIaF), who can connect the flames of amateurs, making them see what Asshai wants them to see, without realising their visions are being tampered with. Melisandre and her order thinks she is connecting with a firegod. But she is actually connecting to a "phone fire net". And someone with more power/skill notices, and they connect her fire to a campfire of something interesting, or project images of their own, to guide Melisandre into doing what they want. Or she successfully finds a second fire in a place she was actually looking into, but it gets mixed with "background noise" from other fires, causing visions to be confusing. GRRM has said there are no gods in SoIaF, and that people can unknowingly perform magical rituals. That's why I don't think there is an actual fire "God" or it's opposing "God" the "Great Other". There are forces that people tap into. But they give the credit to made up gods.

[@Blaklyon0]

Everything burns...

[@lloydgush]

Glass candles?

[@Hobodeluxe960]

who speaks through the flames? I haven't seen this video yet so I'll give you my ideas up front. I think it's the NK. He has dragonglass in his chest. Dragonglass is frozen fire. It's used to make glass candles for the red priests and priestesses. Now to go watch the video.

[@postcardsandroses]

He doesn't exist in the books

[@eudaimonian9473]

I always have to watch these vids at at least 1.5x... is the slow speech a deliberate choice for dramatic effect? Usually your speech cadence is fine for the review videos.

[@johndaly5268]

What religion would you follow if you lived in this universe? If you had to follow one. Starry wisdom? R'hllor?

[@sithersproductions]

The seven probably

[@alanpennie8013]

@@sithersproductions The Faith of The Seven is a balanced, sensible religion.

[@CynicalActress]

Then it would explain why Spider is shaving his head - he's Targeryan. High blood of the "enemy".

[@RainBird88x]

It was the Voice from the Outer World.

[@sirsplintfastthepungent1373]

Curious that you would take the Spider's words as gospel truth. He is also the Jail Guard in the black cells and who knows who else, remember. Personally, I think he is Rheagar. Come at me, bro. I firmly believe that Varys has his junk intact, since he's always offering to give random people a peek, he knows no one will actually check.

[@Kyrielsh1]

What ? Varys was there when Raeghar was, so what Raeghar killed Varys and took his place ? And no one noticed, really... There's no limit to the ASOIAF theories -_-

[@sirsplintfastthepungent1373]

@@Kyrielsh1 I propose that whoever wore Rheagar's ruby studded armor was glamored, since it's rather convenient both sides instantly stopped fighting to pick up the rubies in the ford, and would not have noticed. Also the Dunk n Egg stories would be an excellent parallel. Tall, dumb, kind and nameless Dunk with a small bald secret Targaryen matched to Tyrion n Varys, short, smart, shrewd and famous Tyrion with a fat bald secret Targaryen. Lots of theories out there, but few are as plausible as mine.

[@Wolftess]

Why use past tense when talking about Zoroastrianism? It still exists.

[@NYCfrankie]

I'm a amateur historian self taught and world traveled azor ahi is based on the God of zoroastrianism which is ahura mazda

[@tcironbear21]

I think some of your theories sometimes lean too much on perfect timing or perfect knowledge. And your hypothesis that Daenerys and the Starry Wisdom is one such theory. The big problem with the theory is that even if they have the powers to see or send visions through fire, why would they be targeting Daeny at that exact moment? The most likely reason that Daeny was given the FOSSILIZED dragon eggs by Illyrio is that he figured it would both impress Drogo and Daeny and Illyrio is a very rich man who can afford such a wedding present. It was an attempt ingratiate himself and demonstrate is use to a powereful man and his wife. If Illyrio had expect Daeny could hatch the eggs, the more logical thing for him to do would have been manufacture the events to make them hatch in a way that Daeny was still under his thumb. And if Illyrio had been a dupe for the true conspirator, then the true conspirator would have made sure that he had an agent there nudging Daeny down the right path or at least spying on her. By the time Daeny hatched her dragons she was down to some pitiful remanent of Dothraki and Jorah, these are all implausible spies. Now once Daeny hits Qarth with her dragons, I think it is VERY likely supernatural humans would start tracking and influencing her, but before strikes me as very wild eyed conspiracy.

[@Kyrielsh1]

Yeah, many of these theories logically imply that some people have incredible knowledge of the future. For the moment Blood Raven COULD have that power, though the mechanics in the TV show tend to imply that it is not easy to influence the timeline... People conjectured that the Night King (show) has that power too but I never see any real proof of that.

[@eds1942]

Jorah was a spy working for Varys. Varys who is a old friend and co-conspirator of Illyrio’s. As for Dany receiving a message and instructions through the fire? No. We have her POV’s and I don’t remember anything suggesting that to be the case.

[@tcironbear21]

The fact we know who Jorah was a spy for Varys is what makes him an implausible spy for some undisclosed supernatural power.

[@eds1942]

TC IronBear I see what you’re getting at now. But, why would some supernatural entity need an physical anthropomorphic spy with Dany in order to spy on her? There are several ways that don’t require a person to physically be there in order to spy on someone, supernaturally. Greenseers use the weirwoods. Wargs use animals. Mages use the glass candles. The Red Priests use their flames. The Wizards drink ‘Shade of the Evening’. And who knows how the Woods Witches do it.

[@eds1942]

There’s also the Appearance of the Red Comet. 5,000 years ago, a scroll was found in the Library of Asshai, likely left by the Church of Starry Wisdom, that foretold of the Red Comet’s (return) thousands of years down-the-road. The Red Priests, likely turned that into a religious prophecy and added that Azor Ahai would be reborn again at this time in order to keep the tale alive and so, have been waiting for this return ever since. The Red Comet appeared in the sky the night that Dany’s dragons were born from fossilized eggs, meteorites. When the Red Priests saw that, they turned to their flames and asked R’hllor to give them a vision of Azor Ahai and what they must do in order to help them. Conceivably, one of them saw Dany or her Dragons. As for communicating with her during that night? No. Some where likely waiting for her or whoever would show up with the dragons in Qarth though.

[@Conorp77]

If R'hllor is real....the Great Other is real...

[@ariarion137]

@@Alexpascu2785g6 the boss of the white walkers, the night king

[@Tychoxi]

Its Brans all the way down.

[@kevinrobinson6601]

I would recommend you watch this at 1.25x speed. Great video!

[@greggelb]

Holy monotone.

[@infini1970]

I'm not convinced it's that complicated honestly.

[@mollyrealdolly]

rglor is just George M. who revives people

[@tool9386]

It's quite a stretch to label this a ASOIAF Theory video when all you do is ask "what if" questions.

[@brightglory5734]

A god by any other name.

[@macleunin]

MelissandrE

[@TheFly212]

Sith Lord's can do all these things and more. And they don't need a "God". Only the darkside... The Darkside of the force is pathway to many abilities sine consider to be..... Unnatural.

[@Terrakinetic]

"We like" That is the problem there. Real life craps over everything, much less a canon. It is when the producers or whoever has an actual agenda, plotting to sabotage a series on purpose, that should rile you up. 4kids, Hollywood remakes of foreign films, Konami & Metal Gear, EA, those are people who ruin franchises on purpose with malicious intent. GoT was just real life.

[@alanpennie8013]

You should not speak of Zoroastrianism in the past tense. It still exists and is most notably practised by the Parsees of Mumbai (Bombay).

[@keggerous]

Who the fuck says anyone is ACTUALLY speaking through the flames?

[@QuinnsIdeas]

It's very clear that somehow information is being transferred through the flames. This is demonstrated by multiple characters. In Melisandre's POV chapter we see firsthand how she interprets Visions in the flames.

[@keggerous]

Fair enough. I haven't read the books in like 12 years so . . .

[@jdog7235]

First! Lol

[@raylast3873]

Enough with the Lovecraft-Baiting already. I am almost certain Church of Starry Wisdom does not play a major role in ASOIAF--it's a pop-culture reference, which means it can't be in the story too much without damaging the fourth wall and the suspension of disbelief, which would irreparably shatter people's investment in the story. No one weaving an epic as grand as this one would make that mistake. For the same reasons he wouldn't make Sauron the villain of his tale. This is an adult subversion of high-fantasy, not a postmodern deconstruction. This isn't to say there isn't some sinister force manipulating people through flames, but it's not gonna be a cult he literally stole from HPL.

[@DS-es2jt]

The red god... more like the Devil