R Value and Spray Foam Insulation - Just the Facts!

[@CanadianDiggersChannel]

Corporate and government corruption go hand in hand and the monopoly will continue to deceive the public to serve their purposes and maintain a profit from the consumption of energy.

[@SprayJones]

100% red pilled truth right here! Well done.

[@SprayJones]

This is now the Pinned comment for this video.

[@CanadianDiggersChannel]

@@SprayJones I fully understand heat loss as I was in the Heating and air industry for 5 years. I will be building a Quonset hut home this year and insulating with spray foam and heating with radiant in-floor. I will have a good HRV to control the humidity levels. Do you have any recommendations for a company in the Muskoka area in Ontario that is reputable?

[@CanadianDiggersChannel]

@@SprayJones I know the government well as they serve the corporations first and the consumers last.

[@SprayJones]

@@CanadianDiggersChannel Sorry no. Talk with BASF in TO and they can get you some names.

[@thingsifoundontheinternettoday]

Jesus Christ, Mike! You are by far the most thorough explanation of spray foam available! Seriously appreciate you man. Keep up the great work!

[@SprayJones]

Thank you. It is via Jesus Christ that I move and have my ability.

[@thingsifoundontheinternettoday]

@@SprayJones oh geez. Don't go ruining it ;)

[@ginosmovies]

@@SprayJones: I find your comment interesting. My belief is if we also live a spiritual life then it will lead to treating your customer in a fair and equitable way. ......... just saying . Mike, keep up your great work that you are doing.

[@chadhartman1040]

Once again well done and explained. It’s hard to believe that this level of misunderstanding continues to infect and hinder important progress in something so relatively simple to demonstrate and understand.

[@SprayJones]

Agreed. Thanks for watching.

[@BelindaCarr]

Thanks for the shoutout! You've got great content and great explanations. Looking forward to watching your other videos.

[@SprayJones]

Thank you Belinda. Same on your channel. I watched the whole R value myth video and enjoyed it. Time to change the industry on R value.

[@patrickdowning1328]

I love your informative discussion! I always suspected what you just explained. I am building a 2 story gambrell garage with separate 2nd floor and plan on spray foam the entire roof and walls as well as the Underside of the 2nd floor. I was planning on just doing 1 inch due to budget constraints and recieved a quote today for aprox $2600.00 cash. I am waiting until my framing and rough in electrical inspections are completed. Thanks to all your videos I know to ask alot of questions about winter or summer formula and definitely using closed cell. The roof has a cobra vent but I am Not going to ventilate the roof. 32' x 32' x 12' downstairs with 22' x 32' x 8' upstairs. 2 x 6 wall construction with 2 x 12 floor trusses and 2 x 6 roof members. I plan on not continuously heating downstairs garage. But will be keeping the upstairs at a reasonable temperature as I live in Southern Maine it is moderate temperatures but still zone 6.

[@theSHEFF]

"There's probably only 2 people watching at this point" 😂😭 Never buying fiberglass again. Thanks for the content. Great work.

[@SprayJones]

Thanks for watching!

[@weekender38]

@@SprayJones must have been one other person besides me lol.

[@ShotGunner5609]

There were at least 3 then! I'm rewatching.

[@turboflush]

4 people. Ending was the best. Scientifical proof

[@brianshea5014]

5

[@bobkat1663]

Great show, I use Rock wool, and spray foam, foam is my air/R and Rock wool is fire/sound. So bats in walls, one to 3 inches of foam outside, with 2 inches of rock wool over that., in flip homes I can take down the underside of the eves have you guys spray the plates and roof surface there, helps with ice damming, and air tightness. , I have even had you guys foam over Hardie Board siding, and then just put Hardie Board siding over that...worked great, sealed the house and cut the bills in half. Spray foam is picking up, interest in Texas. Also I like to rock wool over your foam to guard against bugs. but foam is best for R/ air tightness. I think over time the consumer , with your channels help, will begin to get the picture, I think all batt type insulation is on its way out, except the Rock wool. Do not apologize, those that have their own businesses, or managers of apartments are watching this, no such thing as to much information. Great show.

[@SprayJones]

Thanks for the great feedback Bob. I agree with you on fibrous on the way out.

[@DavidCastillo-mn2nj]

I find it interesting you mentioned previous older versions of spray-foam and how effective they were; lots of similarities to HVAC refrigerants, ozone depletion and GWP. I anticipate spray-foam will continue being changed for same reasons, but hope it doesn't get to the point we start having an ineffective product. I keep looking forward to more information.

[@SprayJones]

They are trying. We need to get regs changed.

[@YorkRiverCannabis]

Thanks for all the information! I appreciate the time you have taken to explain everything!

[@SprayJones]

My pleasure!

[@airdogg1979]

The only proof I need is those fancy coolers that keep ice for days on end during summer. What insulation do those use? Foam!

[@SprayJones]

Amen

[@turboflush]

And vacuum.

[@paulbrennan6613]

It’s simply command sense

[@SinnisjInsulator]

Right exactly, and also what does NASA use for Insulation or even airplanes, some sort of foam.

[@turboflush]

Vacuum actually works better.. But hard to place a vacuum chamber around the house. Lol

[@billwilljulz]

I am soo glad I watched this til the end. We will have the luxury of no inspections for our new home, so I will get to choose my spray foam depth and not be upheld to the insane R49 (attic) that codes enforce. This means more work for me as I now have to figure out what our magic number will be. I have read that 5” or so of open cell is where the diminishing returns start. That is a good starting place as it would fully encapsulate the 3.5” trusses in the conditioned attic. We will also have 2” foam board on the exterior.

[@SinnisjInsulator]

This is an absolute gem of a video. I would like to share sadly I am a loose fill fiberglass insulator for attics. The industry has not put enough money savings and people are going for the cheaper product. I saw this winter a plastic that was put on the cold side or exterior of a garage door cavity which haven't been installed yet, the cavity was temporarily filled with framing 16 on center and fiberglass batts. You saw the wet condensation accross the entire plastic from the outside because the heat was just going through the r24 fiberglass batts. Indoor was say 18c and outside was around -10c.

[@SprayJones]

Wow. Thanks for that. If you pass along pics via email I may be able to use them for teaching. With credit to you of course.

[@SinnisjInsulator]

@@SprayJones I sadly didn't take the picture. But I will do my best for next winter hoping you are still motivated and active in KZbin. I sure hope I will be. I do have a channel about my work in attics and you are welcome to use clips from that. Now I wish I had taken that picture lol.

[@SprayJones]

@@SinnisjInsulator Next time. I have been on your channel and watched a bit.

[@SinnisjInsulator]

@@SprayJones really happy to hear that. I'm just starting out and only have been in the industry for 3 years. Definitely learning a lot. I am definitely following your channel though as it is very thorough. Appreciate the great information.

[@mikerichardson5593]

I am a plumber. So this doesn't even pertain to me. I watched the entire video because you explained perfectly what I feel in different insulations when I am working on a home. There is no doubt that spray foam makes everything warmer. This may be the most interesting video I have seen to date. I have questioned the values of insulation for a long time. It never made sense why certain homes fealt warmer when they all are built to the code R value... only because I could feel the difference. Anyways, keep it up. Builders need to start doing better for their customers. I work on $million dollar homes every week and the insulation industry is stealing huge amounts of money from customers for lying. I firmly believe it will take a class action lawsuit to change the code. I have always been a fan of closed cell foam. Now the facts finally make me feel better for what I have witnessed in real life. Foam is the only material that insulates a home... absolutely amazing video! I can not show enough appreciation. Kudos!

[@FOURCED]

Possibly your Best Work Ever Mike so Thank You Very, Very Much! Your Passion for knowledge and education flowed through that video like cold dense air through a batt.

[@SprayJones]

Thank you Jon. Get ready more much more is coming.

[@rossdickinson3351]

This channel rocks! Sooo many questions answered without having to ask.

[@SprayJones]

Of course.

[@msheaver]

I was really looking forward to this discussion, and I was NOT disappointed! We continue to take the red pill, and I am glad! Given the multifaceted, multidimensional effect the various means of heat transfer (conduction, convection and radiant), has anyone devised a better way of quantifying and qualifying the true performance of the different insulating materials? It seems that the only reliable metric that most non-specialists (a.k.a. homeowners) have is cost for heating and cooling. Inquiring minds want to know more!

[@SprayJones]

We have the ability and knowledge. The reasons for not doing it are far more sinister. We are up against corruption at high levels that profits a few. "it's a big club and you ain't in it."

[@shaunwiegert]

Watched the video from start to finish. Great content. I am getting my home foamed soon and just want to know what I am paying for. I found the prices to be dramatically different from one contractor to another. 2 were within 500 of each other and the other one was more than double. The estimate was for 2085 sq ft of closed cell at 2". $5500 was one price and 5000 was the other. The outlier came in at a hair over $10,000. I am learning from your videos and would like to know what the actual product I am being quoted is. I am convinced that foam is the best option regardless of "R" value. I have a massive 2nd floor that is unfinished and has only about 1/2 of it with batt insulation. My utilities are outlandish.

[@SprayJones]

Is this in the USA?

[@shaunwiegert]

@@SprayJones yes. Kansas City area.

[@SprayJones]

@@shaunwiegert Then I'm inclined to believe the two at 5K.

[@ScottyDMcom]

I liked the explanation of why the codes call for so much attic insulation. This summer I'll be working on super-insulating my mountain cabin. I've been wondering what to do with the ceiling. Flat ceiling, 6 in 12 roof pitch, 2x4 trusses on 24-inch centers. Currently there are 1/2-inch fiberglass ceiling tiles laying on the Sheetrock, and "R-19" fiberglass batts, paper side up, on top of those, with gaps all around. The original builder used lots of 1/2-thick fiberglass ceiling tiles everywhere. I think he had a warehouse full of them and didn't know what else to do. I'm fond of 2-inch foil-faced polyiso boards and was planning on using a double layer on the outside of the walls under new siding. I've determined that even if the 3 1/2-inch fiberglass in the wall cavities is R-13, there shouldn't be a condensation problem on the inside surface of the polyiso. And with taped seams it should be a fantastic vapor, air, and water barrier. For the attic my first reaction was to blow in a ton of loose insulation in, like maybe 24 inches. But I believe your animation of convection within the insulation, and the statement that the reason the codes call for so much R-value in the attic is because the actual insulating effect is far lower than what's on the label--even if the code inspectors don't realize why that requirement is so high. I called the planning department, and they said for adding insulation (walls or attic) I won't need a permit or inspection. So I can trash the 1/2 fiberglass ceiling tiles, pull off the paper facing and stuff the "R-19" fiberglass batts between the ceiling joist parts of the truss (compressed down to "R-13" in thickness), then lay foil-faced polyiso on top of the ceiling joists, running cross ways to the joists/trusses. Of course I'd have to fuss about with the 2x4 bracing running between joist and rafter, but it shouldn't be too bad. Each 2-inch layer of polyiso will cost about $700, plus aluminum tape, plus fussing time. I'm thinking maybe 2 layers. Four inches of polyiso is "only" R-26.2, but that's an honest, air tight and vapor tight, R-rating with no convection possible, and the shiny foil will go a long ways to reducing radiation losses. If the code inspector somehow discovers I'm short on the "Rs" I'll tell him, "But there's R-19 fiberglass below the foam board insulation." The code inspector will be needed for other aspects of the project. You spray your closed-cell foam between rafters, and that's brilliant. Putting an attic hatch within such an attic is no problem. But leaky poorly-insulated attic hatches suck if you have ceiling insulation (not rafter insulation). I saw one building-science-aware architect solve that by putting the attic hatch in the gable end, accessible via a ladder from outside the home. He had an air-tight ceiling. I'll do the same--kill the ceiling hatch and put the hatch in the gable end.

[@SprayJones]

Stay tuned for the 4 part series on Roofs and SPF starting Tues.

[@ScottyDMcom]

@@SprayJones, thanks. I will.

[@wings2004]

How do you handle old brick houses? I'm looking at some existing houses and how I can help make them more habitable.

[@SprayJones]

We spray them from the inside once gutted. Will have some videos on old retrofits.

[@slowsmooth3440]

Mike, JC here I wish I had this video when my father-in-law told me that I was making a mistake by not venting the roof rafters. We ended up spray foaming the roof rafters in a closed system. In the insulation game water Trumps air, air Trumps vapor, and vapor Trumps thermal insulation, the elegant solution that closed cell provides is the continuous control layers preventing water air and vapor ...while providing insulation at the same time. Thanks for giving me hope. People like you help me to think that we might actually survive as a species.

[@SprayJones]

Well said.

[@dwayneloftice2326]

I'm here and I am a convinced fan. My new home is fully closed cell foam that has proven its value for over 16 months. And, I am a near 60 year veteran of the design/construction industry. In my book....it's closed cell foam or "go home!"

[@waterwayinsulation697]

Amen brother keep up the good work and fighting for what you believe. Change is slow but I'm glad to see the education that you are providing. Hoping someday code and inspectors will get with the technology.

[@SprayJones]

Not unless we force the matter to change.

[@Cooper-1717]

First rate video, thorough and we'll supported! I found all kinds of content on the web from Steve Maxwell, but not able to find the white paper you showed in this video. Can you provide a link? Many thanks !

[@turbofarviknugnnick5540]

So in South Texas @ 5.5" of OC foam applied DTM I can relatively expect GREAT THINGS! My foam guy calculated it at R20 but explained the R-VALUE FAIRY TALE and said it will preform way better than R20 fiber. GREAT VIDEO will share in the Barndominium groups!

[@SprayJones]

Agreed. Texas loves open cell. I trained at Demilec in Dallas 2005.

[@kencourtright490]

Well, I believe that you have made a fair assessment of the different insulating properties!! Very valuable information an I stayed to the end !!

[@SprayJones]

Thanks for watching until the end.

[@John-tq4bf]

On a new build or relay of basement floor could you insulate gravel base with 2" spray foam then only use 2" of fiber re-enforced cement and have a warm and strong enough floor?

[@SprayJones]

In theory yes. Most floors are 4 inch thick.

[@leeweber9018]

So in a 2X6 wall using ZipR for the exterior walls and roof decking how thick should I spray the closed cell foam?

[@SprayJones]

Enough to reach code when the combined values are added.

[@petecook1611]

Thanks for all your videos, your educating me before my build..my question to would be I'm getting ready to build a barndominium and trying to decide on house wrap vs osb between metal an studs. Yes wood is up right now but osb will strength to the walls and I feel the spray foam will bond better to it vs a plastic sheeting house wrap. Your thoughts?? Don't think I want metal, plastic sheeting and then spray foam doesn't seem like SF would stick good to plastic and certainly nearly as adding the osb for strength..I do understand u have to deal up all double studs, floor an wall plate cracks etc the building has to be COMPLETELY SEALED UP for SF to go it's job. Do I need attic ventilation or ventilate it thru HVAC??

[@SprayJones]

Spraying to wood exterior is the best method for sure. Watch the video on roofs launching on Tuesday for SPF

[@brianlee6849]

Great info 👍. I'm one of the 2 LoL actually I think you have more to the end because it's great info. I really like the real world test with the 2 identical test. Measuring the actual R value is fine but I would really like to hear what the energy consumption difference was because this is the real end goal. I think the real problem in the industry is "Code Builders" that are only interested in building to code for the least amount of money and uninformed buyers buying these homes. There's only a small amount of builders and buyers pushing energy efficiency. I think another thing people miss is the comfort and health of a airtight envelope with proper ventilation. I saw a video with a architect where he was telling builders and architects don't sell energy efficiency sell comfort and health people will pay for comfort and health not energy efficiency. Thanks for a great video 👍

[@SprayJones]

Agreed. I have more info for other videos coming up on ROI and comfort. One bite at a time. Thanks for watching.

[@brianlee6849]

@@SprayJones Yes definitely. Thank you

[@flick22601]

I have always considered R values useless for all the reasons you covered. The spray foam manufacturers need to get together and develop a better rating system and then lobby to have it incorporated in the building codes.

[@SprayJones]

100% agree!!!!

[@billwilljulz]

Great content! I would like to see the other methods of heat loss (convection and radiant) factored into the equation. Keep in mind that the three methods of heat loss are not 1/3 each. For example, a quick google search tells me radiation accounts for

[@keithcrook2943]

Listened to every moment, you are a great teacher.

[@SprayJones]

Wow, thank you!

[@richardlusk2160]

I’m loving your series. I am getting ready to foam the underside of my metal roofing on my 110 year old East Tennessee home. It was newly installed on top of 1x8 and 1x12 longitudinal members. The gable vents are closed off and the roof peak vents will be shut off. I’m fixin to blow 2 inches of closed cell foam and just seal off the attic space. Any problems I should worry about. I’m addressing any longish screws.

[@SprayJones]

Sounds fine to me, provided the screws or nails are 1 inch no deeper. Otherwise put up more SPF.

[@dokenboken5542]

I bet you could get Matt Risinger to help you out. He's big into air sealing.

[@SprayJones]

Sure. Air seal is VERY important and 50% of the job.

[@bp4170]

Spry Jones doesn't need his help. Matt need Spray Jones.

[@marko3xl3]

This video made me think of Matt. He’s a big ZIP sheathing and rock wool guy. He prefers to air seal from the outside and then use relatively non convective insulation in the cavities. The obvious problem is that rock wool is very difficult to install tightly and doesn’t address the fact that SPF has better thermal mass. In my opinion best practice should be ZIP-R6 (more for its water resistance & elimination of thermal bridging properties than its air tightness properties) and then 2” (or less) of SPF in the cavities. I know you’re working on a video to address thermal bridging, the results of which might negate the need for ZIP-R6 or show it could be less (R-3) so I’m excited to see what you come up with. I’m a new viewer to your channel and I can’t put into words how thankful I am that people like you exist to fight the good fight.

[@joshuabrookshire6074]

Great info thanks! Quick question, I need to reinsulate my attic, it has old nasty rock wool and fiberglass. I plan on removing all or it, should I then spray the top of the ceiling with 2 in of spray foam? What about using 2in ridged foam? Thanks.

[@SprayJones]

Please watch the video about spraying down onto drywall. It can in the playlist for "how not to be cheated."

[@a.i.9560]

Thank you for your great explain of all the heat loss factors. After seeing the flash and batt failures due to to poor spray foam installation. Can you talk about Moisture and conviction in a wall cavity that is only filled halfway with foam and painted drywall on the other side. I am worried about the condensation between the drywall and foam.

[@SprayJones]

There is no worry. It cannot get cold enough. But yes there will be more to come on this.

[@myhandletre3]

Great video as always. Excellent information from your site. Keep up your great work. I have a question about applying 3 or 4 inches of spray. Do you still need to do a 2 inch pass and 24 hrs later apply 1 to 2 inches again, or can you now do it in one pass?

[@SprayJones]

We have data sheets for that. BASF has hi-build foam that can be done up to 5 inch. So does Demilec. Normally 2 inches followed by 30 mins and then 2 inches.

[@Hell4Gamers]

Was looking at flash and batt on my 20" limestone walls. Purely a money saving measure. Feel like I need to keep saving to get those extra inches done and skip that batt.

[@SprayJones]

Absolutely. I will be doing a video on masonry walls and retro fit. Will be very good I promise.

[@nieldcreek2098]

Hello Mike, I have a question regarding spray foam on a concrete foundation ( basement). What are the advantages/ disadvantages of spay foaming either the inside or the outside of the foundation, or both?

[@SprayJones]

Weather.

[@chuckk6971]

I was looking at the Passive House USA standard but after watching your videos, the Passive House standards are useless with the exception of air changes/hour. Your information is so good I really want to but a house to retrofit with spray foam insulation. Thank you for the education in building science.

[@SprayJones]

Glad to help!

[@DT-kq8bi]

What about open cell foam. Will it have internal air circulation similar to fiber materials? Seams like more open cell is used here in south central Texas.

[@SprayJones]

No. Watch my video on Open cell SPF to know more.

[@chrisklein9144]

How would open cell spray foam fare on the window pane test at the end. I am convinced that spray foam of my attic roof is the way to go. I was going to go with open cell due to the fact that roof leaks will make them selves apparent. Now I am concerned that the open cell will not thermally perform as well as in the roof application. I already had a question for my foam contractor on how vapor sealing is handled for the open cell. Now I am wondering about the convective air flow within the open cells. Thank you for the informative videos.

[@SprayJones]

Go closed cell if you have doubts. Watch the up and coming roof videos

[@chrisklein9144]

@@SprayJones looking forward to more of your informative videos.

[@mikeholmes21]

Loving the technical details of this video series, I am planning on building a new house in the next few years so it is great info. We will be in Ontario near Kingston, I am looking forward to the roof series as I really want to have a foamed roof deck and make our attic a conditioned space. What is your opinion on using products like Zip R with 2-3” of spray foam on the inside? The other option we are looking at is ICF and tying the roof system in with spray foam. Keep up the great content!

[@SprayJones]

All in the videos..... so stay tuned in.

[@jocelynparadis4182]

Nice,i am building a ICF house in the summer and i want 1 inch of foam and the 15 inches of blown in cellulose,will that be enough foam ?

[@SprayJones]

Watch the roof video coming up starting Tues...

[@stevebouffard8637]

Mike thank you for all you videos. I have a remodel going on now and I want to spray the roof deck. I’ve seen this done in my area (RI US) with open cell but I haven’t seen a vapor barrier applied. Is a vapor barrier required in a non vented attic with open cell? I have a new roof with grace ice/water under the shingles and 2x6 rafters. Or would 2-3 inch of closed cell be better. Thanks

[@SprayJones]

I am a huge fan of closed cell. Starting Tuesday we wll be into 4 video series for roofs. There is enough info right now on my channel for you to get your questions answered. Check out the playlists.

[@stevebouffard8637]

Thank you I look forward to seeing them.

[@Jonacarpenter]

Thanks for some great and informative information…. It made a lot of sense, and now you had me with the science as to stopping the ‘air movement / exchanges’ all that technical stuff. Lol. To much to recap!!!! Thanks on the no R value needed!!!

[@SprayJones]

Glad it was helpful!

[@nicholasbohannan1673]

What if you used aeroseal for your walls BEFORE a fibrous style insulation. Obviously there is no better option (in my opinion) for the attic other than spf but would completely sealing before insulating make the fibrous insulation useful at that point? Using SPF in the attic is obvious to me via the fact that most hvacs are located in the attic and we’re essentially trying to make ice cream in an oven nowadays with a vented blown in system 🤔 not with an spf system.

[@jeffniedert759]

I could use some sound advice. I will be building a 60x80 post frame shop with in floor heat this summer. I am wondering if I should have 2 inches of closed cell sprayed on before finishing with open cell. What would my best option be?

[@SprayJones]

Go all closed cell.

[@jimknowles5483]

Oh how I wish there was a fiberglass batt insulation in addition to the three types behind the insulationed glass. You should do that! Really, talk about real world conditions....! Hey great video!! Rewatched parts of it. I am a diy guy. Cabinet maker & spray finisher. My shop needs insulation. I wanted to install glass Batts my self...but I am sold on your closed cell! Your videos have anchored my decision. So thanks for the truthful clarity! just jim

[@SprayJones]

You are welcome. Thanks for watching.

[@danslickers8166]

Enjoy watching and learning from you. Thank you for all your time and effort that is put in to your videos. Have a question. I asked this on another channel but only heard crickets chirping. Does Rockwool exterior insulation loose some of it’s r-value since it is not in an air tight environment?

[@SprayJones]

Of course. In fact it can be zero with enough air going through it. Then factor humidity on top of that. FYI most people have no clue about what is going on.

[@danslickers8166]

@@SprayJones Are you familiar with prosoco products? Great products. Was just wondering if someone really wanted the fire resistance of rockwool on the exterior if the prosoco spray could be applied to the rockwool after it was installed that way it could be waterproof and air tight but vapor open. Thoughts?

[@Sofakinglazy1291]

I'm going to talk to my energy consultant here in NY, pretty sure a similar test can be achieved based on different ach level based on different energy zones and required ach50 for different zones. I feel the r-value should be a chart, showing what the true r value is at different ach50 levels. Also I agree with what you are saying in regards to air infiltration as being an issue. But there definitely are ways to seal your home w.o using spray foam. In those situations where the contractor took the time to air seal prior to insulation, wouldn't a flash and batt or even just using the batt be sufficient then?

[@SprayJones]

Better watch the videos on Walls. Also the dangers of flash and batt. You are pointed in the right direction but not fully red pilled / unplugged from glass and R values yet.

[@caleballeman8779]

If I ever get a chance to pull the trigger on a Passive House project I know what I'm getting. Thanks for all the good info!

[@SprayJones]

Think twice. If you have to meet R value specs for fibrous values you will be forced to spray insane amounts of foam.

[@caleballeman8779]

@@SprayJones so far from what i've seen is that it is performance based. Total air leakage requirements which is a physical test with a blower door. And then average and peak heating and cooling requirements which can also be measured. Windows can only be X% of total perimeter area. That kind of thing.

[@johnhaller5851]

New polyurethane has excellent air sealing and insulating values. The other side of this is the deterioration of the material over time, potentially releasing the blowing agent or allowing atmospheric gases to infiltrate the cells. That's not to say fiberglass doesn't have its own problems with binders deteriorating. But how do we avoid the disposable house?

[@SprayJones]

The foam is a multi-generational purchase. I think you need more info on just how log properly installed product lasts.

[@Mouse2677]

Where are these documents Found? I would love to share them with the Habitat For Humanity Organization so we would afford a much better thermal envelope.

[@matthewfunk6658]

Nice shout out to Belinda!

[@John-tq4bf]

There is no such thing as "too much information". You do great videos and cudos for giving Belinda Carr a heads up.

[@SprayJones]

Wow, thank you!

[@robyarrow9690]

Best example of heat transfer for a customer who is the 7-11 coffee cup. Explain to them that you will fill a 7-11 coffee cup full of 200 degree coffee and have no issue grabbing it, but put the same coffee in a glass they would not grab it. That puts a “real life” twist on the difference.

[@GoBearstyJpyn]

I watched a video of someone who sprayfoamed and was not a fan. He said house was too tight so that the fireplace did not draft, the stove exhaust did not pull very well and his bath towels did not dry and became mildew. And he was concerned on how you find the roof leak behind sprayfoam? So how do you respond to that? Is that typical of sprayfoam?

[@SprayJones]

That is ignorance gone to seed. I believe the bible calls it "the blind leading the blind".

[@sharonbarbour276]

Ok, I'm sold on SPF but to educate the inspector that 2-3" of foam on the underside of the roof performs better than R-38 batt if he hasn't educated himself could be frustrating. Some inspectors are old school so what advice do you have or what do you say to inspectors (other than watch my videos!) ?

[@SprayJones]

VAULTED CEILING SPECS.....

[@turboflush]

Jones.. So the argument i have heard with closed cell on residential roof deck is that you dont want two vapor barriers. Wood sandwiched between Roof tar underlayment ans the closed cell. This will create moisture between the two. This is from a spray foamer company. I would say, that because they are so tight together.. That this is not a concern. Only air pockets might be on the underlayment side. The other argument was if the roof leaks you will see it on your drywall. Which i agree with both sides of argument on this. Closed cell you coukd potentially never know untill you have roof redone in 20 years or until there is a bigger problem. I will have to go back and watch your older video. Unf the new one you have coming out, i may have already made my choice.

[@SprayJones]

Video 1 is done for roofs. It is 45 min long and the rest won't be any shorter. There is A LOT of info I will be going through. I talk a lot....

[@turboflush]

@@SprayJones And we listen to every bit. When ia new roof vid dropping?

[@SprayJones]

@@turboflush Next Tuesday.

[@craigslist04]

Is there a new testing method/standard that includes all 3 heat losses or gains in its calculations?

[@SprayJones]

Not yet.

[@jeffreylonigro1382]

Major PITA if roof gets a leak and sheathing needs to be replaced. How would you replace foam?

[@SprayJones]

With a spray gun. Not to be a smart ass this is no big deal.

[@jeffreylonigro1382]

Spray Jones not to be a smart-ass...does your gun spray through finished drywall? Remember, not all rafters have attic access. Many carry cathedral ceilings. So my concern is legit.

[@Joe-N-Kat]

What are your thoughts on doing spray foam and then following up with Aero Barrier?

[@SprayJones]

Rubbish. Use caulking manually into all the joints and verify that it is sealed, and make it that way.

[@ghiagoo]

When an attic is spray foamed, on the ceiling in a vented attic, what happens to the moisture in bathrooms and kitchens without vents? Does the moisture start to cause mold over time on it in the walls? Does the paper in drywall get effected? Curious as I was thinking of getting attic spray foamed since I can't go d someone willing to do airsealing

[@SprayJones]

Without vents from those areas are stupid. You have to get excess moisture out one way or another. Either direct vent or the HVAC has to deal with it. Watch the 4 part series on non-vented roofs. Part 3 we discuss this more thoroughly.

[@comfortgreen2865]

Thank You, all great points. Now how do we solve the problem? Air sealing will fail . Water will still enter I'm concerned About many forceable problems. Is they anyway we can drain water out? ANY good information will be greatly appreciated.

[@SprayJones]

What are you talking about? With batts or with SPF?

[@comfortgreen2865]

@@SprayJones I'm thinking about just water. Was hoping you might has a solution. Its a problem we deal with daily. Thank you.

[@SprayJones]

@@comfortgreen2865 I am not following where is there water? Like in a wall with SPF? Your exterior finish is first defense, building wrap, caulking, flashing and drainage plane second, weep holes third. You need to be more specific.

[@comfortgreen2865]

@@SprayJones Thanks ! really helped weep holes is the only way. I'll see if i can make it work. Keep up the great work !

[@mikerieger8964]

I have always felt the R-value was missing so much of real world applications, thanks. I am building a house in South Dakota, USA with parallel cord trusses and am very interested in how much spray foam I need to keep the energy costs down.

[@SprayJones]

You will like the 4 part series on roofs starting next Tues.

[@ksamos]

Very good info. So many “standards” that are used are really either 1-sided or are just not real-world.

[@LorenR1962]

Watched the whole thing. Very very good Thanks for sharing!

[@SprayJones]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@fredericrike5974]

Mike, are you getting any feed back from the CSA or UL organizations? I really feel your comments about trying to fight an army of Goliaths. BTW, stayed to the end and didn't sleep a wink! FR

[@SprayJones]

No, I am one person barking in the wind. Thanks for watching to the end.

[@fredericrike5974]

@@SprayJones I'm going to make a suggestion, and it is a just a suggestion; Get in touch with some of the spray foamers you know in NY State and have them start writing Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez, US House Representative for the Bronx in NYC. Housing in a climate similar to yours should resonate and she and other Progressives are looking for good issues to help "re adjust" our governments performance to better serve the US population rather than the corporate interests. If you feel like contributing, get directly involved- the time, education and effort you have amassed are likely to be warmly regarded. This is a guess on my part- I am still working that way on another topic I have some background on that she has not shown a clear understanding of, but I don't live in NYS and have so far not heard back. Hence my clue to contact her through someone in or near her home district. This is a classic example of a national regulatory board being "captured" by the industry it is supposed to regulate. I hadn't thought you Canadians had this problem too! But much of your problem is political, so politicians are involved, one way or another.FR

[@John-tq4bf]

As long as you feed me information I only have time to listen and soak it all in.

[@SprayJones]

Great

[@michaelgray1523]

Great information and video. Really appreciate your hard work. Gives me pride in spraying foam.

[@SprayJones]

Great. It should we are the best product in the construction industry. No other material can do so much and solve so many issues.

[@maxmintz511]

Excellent presentation! Thank you.

[@SprayJones]

Glad it was helpful!

[@chrisarnone7896]

Great Video. I think you answered my question I had from a previous video. Seems like bottom line, as of today people will still have to have the Code R-value rating to pass inspection even though the effective insulation value is way beyond a typical fiberglass system. This is probably steering people away from the cost, if the Spray foam industry has to charge/spend more in product just to meet code. That's a shame. But I will be doing spray foam because I know the value it gives, regardless of cost. I don't think people realize the energy savings throughout the life of the home will way pay itself. Again, Great video.

[@SprayJones]

Thanks. I will be doing some more on ROI and fighting code on how to do it. But the SPF guys have to step up for this. Joe or Jill homeowner cannot do it.

[@safffff1000]

What is 1st to use, foam or AeroBarrier?

[@Boscovius]

I've been on the fence about how to best insulate my 1.5 story house. Upstairs leaks like a seive. I once called a company out to give me a quote on a foam job. They tried to sell me on cellulose. So glad I didn't take the bait. A combination of low density open cell and high density closed cell foam is probably in my future.

[@SprayJones]

Go closed cell, you will be will be glad you did.

[@teekay1785]

Think of R value as the Ideal Potential resistance to heat movement of a specific material. Yes there definitely is air movement within most insulations . As I have commented in other videos there is even convection inside of double or triple pane Windows that are sealed extremely well.

[@SprayJones]

Thanks for watching TK

[@scottk8967]

I might be totally missing the point, but would it not be most beneficial to spray, bat, then spray to encapsulate the fiber and stop the convection. Best of both worlds.

[@SprayJones]

Yes you missed the point completely.

[@turboflush]

So flash and bat. . from what inam understanding. Its mainly good for noise. Insulation. Its loose. Solid objects transfer noise, loose will snuff it. So for a very comfortable house.. Do the flash and bat. Just dont expect the bat to do a whole lot of insulation.

[@SprayJones]

I can agree with that... I still don't like to see batt in front of SPF.

[@The_Real_Ozmerican]

An animated information graphic explaining this in hard points/facts would absolutely help sway public opinion. Information Graphics are unbelievably affective at getting a lot of broad information into a narrow mind and having it sink in. Mike you'll never get everyone to care enough to read and watch this much sh** it's craziness I own a company in the industry and my head is spinning I can't imagine what most people are think that don't even have the base knowledge to comprehend what I just watched. Cartoon graphics work just don't use Peppy Le Pew or social justice mental health patients will cancel you 😆

[@SprayJones]

Yup

[@gregpapagno5683]

I need to get 1200 sq ft of crawl space done with open cell. What would a average price be?

[@SprayJones]

I have no idea. I do not talk prices here because there are too many variables for consideration.

[@The_Real_Ozmerican]

I've gone back and reviewed our standardised test and it's being done with 100mm.... and Rvalues here are 1 through 6..... 😔

[@SprayJones]

I do not understand what you are saying.

[@joetuktyyuktuk8635]

The very fact that spray foam takes 5-6 times longer to reach steady state, proves how superior an insulation product it is, before you factor in the other variables that are skewed towards fiberous insulation.

[@georgerasmussen310]

My wife and I built a brand new pole barn house I want to seal it with Closed cell foam Insulation so I called an insulation company that does foam insulation He told me that spray Foam Insulation Was never intended to go in the ceiling and he will not spray it there he said the attic spaces have to be vented or you will have mold issues so why does my attic space have to be vented when you’re saying it doesn’t

[@SprayJones]

You called a simpleton. Keep calling around and watch the 4 part series on roofs.

[@dependentcreations7384]

Greatly appreciate your information and time

[@SprayJones]

My pleasure!

[@jonathanconway7256]

More great info, although now I have to hunt down Mr South's paper so I can read all 11 pages

[@SprayJones]

That's easy to find.

[@safffff1000]

Any pilot knows his plane flys better at cold temps because the denser air. I'm a foamer now. Can aircrete be considered an insulting foam like the ones you use?

[@SprayJones]

I know nothing about aircrete.

[@jasonpettet156]

I think the very fact that it takes poly 22-24 hour to reach ballance vs. 4 hours for fiber is proof enough of resistance to change.

[@SprayJones]

Correct. When applied to roofs in the summertime we hold the sunlight off for a log time and it can dissipate back into the night sky before morning.

[@The_Real_Ozmerican]

Yea that's nuts I always knew foam was better but i was sold on it being Russian rullet with their homes. I akways knew the standards were horse sh** but I never knew it was this involved or stretthis much its a crime in my opinion I call it Planned Thermal Deficiency and how long before formaldehyde was banned that they were selling away from foam based on chemicals being toxic when they were happily poisoning millions of homes air quality. These people should be in prison.

[@makeitwithpam2795]

Whoa. That's amazing. Sufficient thermal protection with much less thickness!

[@court2379]

I appreciate what you are doing trying to help people understand here, but there are so many mistakes I would like to help with. They don't change that sprayed closed cell foam is the best widely available product for reducing energy transfer, but they undermine some of your arguments. I would be willing to review your script, or that page to help make the needed corrections if you were willing. Stating radiation, convection, and conduction are each 1/3 of the heat transfer is not accurate. Radiation is a very small piece of the pie. I'd have to run the numbers, but I estimate in the single digit percentages. Conduction is the largest in most cases, but convection can be high too depending on the wind outside and airflow in the house. When we talk about heat transfer the classic thermodynamics statement is that there are those three methods, but as you mentioned that ignores a very important transfer method, which is mass transfer. It isn't technically heat transfer, but a change in the substance making up your controlled volume, which has its own temperature that may differ from the volume you are controlling. How important that is depends on how fast the mass is transferring through your wall, and how much energy it has relative to the mass inside your house. The R-value system for buildings is wholly inadequate. Totally agree. It is a single performance indicator on a problem governed by four processes. Saying the test is flawed isn't accurate, though I think you conceded that at one one point. It does accuratly measure conductivity or the reciprocal R value. Your statement about loose fill it glass being measured at larger thickness will change the result, is probably true. There will be some movement of air thru the insulation. However I don't think it will have as much effect as you are thinking. Convection needs movement to work and because the movement is very slow, the heat transfer effect is also very small. Orienting the test in different directions would also help catch such a problem. The whole argument about insulation thermal mass isn't really relevant. Here is why I say so. Thermal mass is talking about a materials ability to resist changes in temperature. Each material has a certain amount of internal energy in it already. The measurement of this is called enthalpy. A high thermal mass would be a material that took a lot of energy to change it's enthalpy/temperature. Plastics have low enthalpies, glass fairly high, but foam, or spun glass have extremely low enthalpies. This is largely due to there being very little mass in the space to store heat (regardless of how much the raw material stores, which is why spun glass is also low, while glass itself is much higher). Because these insulations have very low thermal mass, it takes them very little time to change temperature. The test should therefore reach equilibrium very quickly. Now in reality perhaps it still doesn't, but I would guess that is due to compensating for losses from the edges, or heating up the test environment to a steady state. Not due to the insulations thermal mass resisting change. Tell me about your source of those long times and perhaps I can narrow that down. Your statement about gaps around batt insulation is a big problem, and is not factored into the test. It is probably the reason for most in wall air movement. Real wall assemblies have been tested though and can provide more accurate (lower) data. Again tested for conduction only in a lab though. Which is why such large differences are found in side by side homes made with different insulation. You talk about conduction of air. You should be saying convection. Conduction is stationary masses in contact or thru single a stationary mass. Radiation is literally that, radiating. At these temperatures it is infrared light emitted by the object. Heat transfer by glowing. It is the only method that happens without a medium to transfer it. No gas or solid is needed. Radiation heat transfer depends on the temperature difference, how well the source surface emits it, and how well the receiving surface absorbs it. You mix up some of the terms quite a bit, but radiation is pretty insignificant here. All heat transfer depends on the temperature difference. You can think of it like pressure. The greater the difference between two places the more force there is to drive from high to low. I think you were driving toward "some insulations perform differently at different temperatures", but I didn't feel you quite got there. And don't know the actual numbers currently. We can quite easily calculate the affect of mass transfer on the temperature of a house if you know the volume changing over some time period, and the air temperatures in and out. Humidity matters too as water vapor has much higher enthalpies than air. We take the air that has come in and determine it's enthalpy. Then for the room temperature. Subtract the two and multiply by the mass to get the total heat transfer due to mass transfer. We could build a table based on typical air infiltration rates and outside temperatures, that you could use to promote why mass transfer matters and how foam fixes it. Real numbers. Convection is much harder to estimate, but doesn't really change by the material in the wall. It is talking about movement of fluid on the outside and inside of the wall assembly (apart from your argument about internal wall convection, which would show up in the conductin testing if the material is thick enough). Convection transfers to and from the wall to the surrounding air. The surface temperature of the wall is what matters for it. On a windy day, the outside wall will have a lower temperature because the air is able to convect heat away faster. That greater temperature difference inside to out, will drive faster conduction thru the wall. The material insides effectively determines the surface temperatures and ultimate heat transfer rate. The old spray foam had better R-value due to the blowing agent at installation, but that agent diffuses out over time to where it matches the stuff we use today. I like the work you are doing, and would like to help make it better if I can.

[@Gary-lj7pi]

Totally agree .

[@carrabellicusp]

As your compatriot the living legend Joe Listibreck has said the code obsesses over what it can measure regardless of its significance in the performance of a building You echo his sentiments

[@SprayJones]

Yes, thanks for that.

[@thecryptonurse6331]

Great video

[@jtr82369]

Saw a vid last week of a guy who hates his new spray foam in his existing home, he shows how his range hood doesn’t evacuate the heat & steam of his stove & his bathroom van doesn’t evacuate the heat & steam from his bathroom. He goes on to show his towels don’t dry & are molding. His video is fantastic proof of how air tight spray foam is 😂😂😂 (Hundreds of comments on his video about his lack of air exchange & humidity control so I didn’t bother explaining it, but I did tell him to check out your vids)

[@Ken_Myette]

Can you post a link. Thank you

[@jtr82369]

Found it kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHWkZ5qnqN6NpKs

[@brianlee6849]

All this proves is that he and his builder were uninformed. An airtight home requires a HVR or ERV to mechanically ventilate the home and dehumidifier.

[@jtr82369]

@eyeonfish agreed

[@chadhartman1040]

Video seemed like a KZbin setup/advertisement for a ERV/HRV system, or maybe a way for him to get a free unit.

[@AlecMuller]

A better test (designed for realworld environmental & installation conditions) would solve most of these problems. For example: 1) Build a physical model of the wall/roof/foundation system at 1:1 scale for 100 m^2 interior footprint (small, but still human-sized). 2) Pipe humid 20C air into the model as needed to maintain overall 30% RH through the test. 3) Measure the energy needed to maintain 20C inside, while blowing -10C/100% RH air past the structure at 5 m/s winds. These tests would be expensive, but cheap in the long run compared to building millions of homes using nearly-worthless metrics.

[@JohnSmith-kf1fc]

You're killing it!

[@SprayJones]

Thanks

[@JohnSmith-kf1fc]

@@SprayJones i wanna see your take on monolithic domes!

[@SprayJones]

I know nothing about them other than what I have read on line. I met a SPF contractor that sprayed one here where I am. He said it was no big deal, they built the concrete dome and he sprayed 3 inches inside of it.

[@JohnSmith-kf1fc]

@@SprayJones its the other way around, blowup fabric supports spray foam on the inside and then concrete is sprayed over rebar stuck in the foam. This gives thermal mass to the inside. Sunk it in a slope and with passive solar windows and you have an overheating dome in winter climate

[@SprayJones]

@@JohnSmith-kf1fc Ok. As I said I don't know.

[@Troy-Moses]

I am an architect in Florida... Check out this code reference: _2020 Florida Building Code, Energy Conservation, 7th Edition / TABLE R402.1.2 INSULATION AND FENESTRATION REQUIREMENTS BY COMPONENT / CLIMATE ZONE: 2 / _*_CEILING R-VALUE:_*_ 38_ What's wrong with this picture? The mere fact of using "CEILING" as the sole criteria implies that insulation is not directly applied to the roof, thus sealing it... So if one chooses to apply insulation above the roof deck, what criteria should be followed? The Code does not say -- it's all under "ceiling", from what I can find. A roof is not a ceiling.

[@SprayJones]

Difference in the code between low slope and vaulted ceilings & everything else? We have it.

[@miktub1555]

Great info!

[@SprayJones]

Glad it was helpful!

[@eleson00]

Fiberglass/Rockwool is part of a system. Other parts of that system is: Vapor barrier on the inside and a wind barrier on the outside. If you pick the system apart and test its components, it is like spraying only one of the parts that mixes into foam. And accepting that you get water into the house.... - And solving that by choosing another type of insulation? Is that for real? Get out in the world and see hour you can keep houses dry and keep build an insulation system in the house that works.

[@SprayJones]

Thanks for watching....

[@eddluireg]

awesome video TY!

[@SprayJones]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@willisseymour4207]

This sure is great information, thanks.

[@SprayJones]

Glad it was helpful!

[@FLFO74]

All this great information makes me frustrated. Why? Because on the market here in Norway, closed cell spray foam is hard to get by. There are some players in the business, but they do not appear to be serious enough. I have for example seen pr videos where they use open cell at exterior walls. The spray foam market here is probably like it was 30 years ago in the US and Canada.

[@SprayJones]

Could be. My family line came to Canada from Norway. My grandfather was born here but his two oldest bothers were born in Norway. My wife's is also 100% from Norway.