RABBI JONATHAN SACKS ON CANCEL CULTURE |

Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks shows how we live in a shame culture in the West today, rather than a guilt culture, as we did in the past when ours was a Christian society. The current craving to cancel those who don't conform to the majority view is a symptom of this. We no longer know how to forgive.
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[@gwmitchell1980]

Rabbi Sacks is always worth a listen.

[@handzmagic]

May his memory always be for a blessing. 💙🙏

[@lancashirelassnowupnorth191]

Fascinating... shame and guilt cultures, I had never considered these before, thank you.

[@tiangcs8069]

JEdward lol, lie and spinning is the hallmark of western cultures especially of the fake western main stream media without shame thingy! Anyways have a nice day, cheers and be well.

[@differous01]

Douglas Murray use the terms 'honour culture' vs 'dignity culture'; the former characterised by honour killing & mobs, the latter by forgiveness & tolerance.

[@joannemurphy202]

''we have lost forgetfulness so we had better get back to forgiveness''

[@AtheistEve]

Joanne Murphy I’m always prepared to forgive, if only those _who desire to be forgiven_ didn’t always double down. I think the majority of us have been through the mill too many times by now. What was it George Bush once tried to say? “Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.” I don’t forget, I would forgive, I avoid in future.

[@kabang3]

Excellent. Thank you.

[@JohnAndersonMedia]

Thanks Philip.

[@douglashouston81]

The wisdom we see spoken here is sadly missing elsewhere

[@douglashouston81]

@Thomas Jefferstein 😛😜🤪

[@douglashouston81]

@Thomas Jefferstein no but will look it up, thanks

[@hugh-johnfleming289]

Sacks' passing brought me here and I do not know of him, somehow and sadly. He has reminded me of my great good fortune in having a 'classical education.' We were taught, foremost, to be curious. To listen.

[@christopherrobbins9985]

This is brilliant. Shame v Guilt cultures. We are losing our guilt culture therefore we are losing our ability to forgive.

[@brobsonmontey]

Thank you for this. Rabbi Sacks' explanation of the difference between the culture of Guilt vs the culture of Shame, and how they relate to today's cultural evolution was outstanding - a real light-bulb moment for me.

[@JohnAndersonMedia]

Thanks for the encouragement Benjamin.

[@AtheistEve]

Benjamin Robson Yes, he described how many people are shameless and want to continue shaming themselves in public but now also don’t want to feel guilty about it.

[@garyji]

A very thoughtful and wise discussion. We need more of these shared.

[@macnosmutano4849]

Rest in Peace Rabbi Sacks.

[@jimbarrofficial]

My father fought as a naval officer against Japan in WWII. He returned having nothing but respect for the Japanese. We had books on Japan in our house growing up and he returned and visited Japan with my mother several times throughout their lives. When the war ended, both cultures moved on and became great allies. Different times and different ideologies nowadays.

[@aarongeoghegan2161]

What I love about Rabbi Sacks is that he transcends religion in terms of how eloquently he speaks

[@violetarios2475]

My heart cannot believe Rabbi Sacks passed away 💔😩

[@kiwimac3807]

What a pleasure it is to listen to intelligence and reason!

[@HoiaPolloia]

Rabbi Sacks, a brilliant and thoughtful man, RIP. Great discussion.

[@HagiaSophia1952]

Another of the finest - most humane - thinkers the UK has to offer. May God bless Rabbi Jonathan! If you have not listened to Rabbi Sacks' pre-Selichot address on 'An Unforgiving Age' on KZbin, may I strongly recommend it.

[@perperson199]

RIP

[@HagiaSophia1952]

@@perperson199 Well written! Even though not a Jew my heart is grieving that we have lost him. It may be 'natural': that does not dim the ache.

[@howardbabcom]

We have indeed reached an awful moment. It feels akin to Germany in the 1930s.

[@ari-cowan]

Superb. This is an important discussion - one that provides us with something of a road map out of the exhausting morass of rage and shame. It takes courage (especially here in the United States) to step away from the seductive and toxic culture of "justified" hate. Thanks greatly for your fine work.

[@garthwilliamjones2777]

Thank you. Obviously, social media platforms are the foundations of the shame culture we see today, without them, this culture would not exist but alas, these platforms are not going to disappear suddenly and besides, there are profits to be had from them. However, if forgiveness is lost as collateral damage and the ability to forget is obsolete, would it not be a better option to prevent shame culture by embracing respect instead?

[@giorgialeksandria6665]

R.I.P Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks. we los Great human :(

[@jessicali8594]

Yes, the guilt / shame culture distinction.

[@michaelrabinovitch2120]

Rest in Peace Rabbi Sacks ❤️🙏✡️

[@watchman4todayreloaded192]

The Rabbi has been giving great insight for many decades. I really appreciated his Reith Lectures way back when, and he is still trying to speak wisdom and reason to people now.

[@alanbrooke144]

Lord Sacks’ explanation of the guilt and shame cultures was very enlightening. Having lived and worked in Japan and Korea I was basically aware of the general concept, but never really understood how it manifested in everyday life.

[@HHM706]

Such a wise and kind man. There is hope.

[@JohnAndersonMedia]

Indeed.

[@charlosio]

Thank you Rabbi Sacks. Although I am not Jewish nor a full Christian. This reaffirms my belief in western morals, lessons from history and incorporating forgiveness. I had never though of a shame or guilt culture. Very insightful.

[@ReggiD]

Fantastic, pedagogical conversation by both. Thank you mr. Anderson.

[@firstlast1357]

Reading the Tora one is amazed by the negative accounts jews are writing about themselves, rather then sanitizing the past, and making themselves looking good. That takes a lot of courage and honesty.

[@perrywidhalm114]

Excellent video. Thanks!

[@JohnAndersonMedia]

Thanks Perry.

[@donaldreed2351]

Hanna Arendt said as much regarding the seemingly endless troubles in the Middle East. She said, the only way out is "forgiveness".

[@ChrisGS1982]

Interesting video, thanks for uploading.

[@susanadiasjohnson457]

RABBI SACKS, YOUR PROFOUND INSIGHTS BLESS US YESTERDAY, TODAY, TOMORROW AND FOREVER. MY ETERNAL RESPECT AND THANKS. MAY GOD CONTINUE TO HOLD CLOSE YOUR WIFE ELAINE AND YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY, WHO MUST MISS YOU ENDLESSLY AS DO STUDENTS ALL OVER THE WORLD. 🌎🌍🌏

[@paulinewhite3273]

Such a blessing to listen and take on board what was being said. Thank you.

[@earthstick]

When people tear down statues of slave traders, forgetfulness is exactly their strategy because they cannot forgive and leave the past where it is. This is why they are in mental slavery, because they are still captured by a past that was not even theirs.

[@hilarymiseroy3251]

"Life is thickly sown with thorns, and I know no other remedy than to pass quickly through them. The longer we dwell on our misfortunes, the greater is their power to harm us." Quote from Voltaire.

[@tracykatrinaobrien6998]

Well said.

[@glittermama]

@@ReverseTranscriptase Excellent observations. As you point out, this can only be perpetrated upon a country with several generations of people ignorant of their history and of history in general. This ignorance is the result of a deliberate effort to dumb down the curriculum in public schools. I first realized this back in the 90s when teaching a class of college students, including many juniors and seniors. I wrote "1789" on the blackboard, and not one knew the reference. OK; how about "1776"? Not one. It was then I knew we were facing a crisis, and things have only gotten worse. We are without historians; the historians eliminated in the case of this virus are the elderly, who were targeted on a global scale--Pan Nazism.

[@kaloarepo288]

But should we have allowed the statues of Nazi and Fascist heroes to remain untouched after World War Two and of Communist identities after the fall of Communism.What is the criterion concerning which statues and monuments should be left untouched?

[@tracykatrinaobrien6998]

@@kaloarepo288 valid point. For me it's the manner in which it has been done. Rage, resentment, anger need to be directed constructively in order to bear good fruit. Respectful discussion should be the starting point in my opinion.

[@robinwells8879]

I find guilt difficult live with. Forgiving others is relatively easy but self forgiveness is much much more problematic.

[@sutters7251]

Refuse to carry the yoke of guilt. Who are they to reverse the thousands of years old civilised view that the sins of the father cannot be placed on his children. I believe the cultural Marxists definitely have a worldview of intellectual superiority over all but especially the cultures that have suffered from slavery. Especially the black community. They extol the virtue that they are helping this poor downtrodden race, placing the victim badge on them. They want them to act like victims. It’s insulting to them to say you cannot succeed unless we the enlightened white Marxists come to your rescue. They make school entry easier, university entry point scoring in their favour. The BBC have black only employment advertisements. That says you can’t compete on equal terms, you’re not good enough! How insulting! How racist! The BLM movement don’t care about black lives! Where are they when black men are being killed by black men? Where are they in the community education system? Why do they not march through Brooklyn and Chicago and London demanding an end to coolness culture gun and knife crime and a return to respectful family values that used to epitomise the black community? BLM raised 40 million dollars in the 48 hrs after George Floyd’s terrible death, where has this been spent? Certainly not on compensation to the black shop owners or the black policeman killed defending his community from looters. Not on education health or social care for employment or black homelessness? If anyone should feel guilty it’s the hypocrites. Not you or I. This was not of our making.

[@klearpicture]

It was great to listen to this. Thank you.

[@perperson199]

RIP lord Sacks

[@juliekemp419]

Elegant and considerate people really shine and convince! No others do. Thank you Gentlemen.

[@JohnAndersonMedia]

Thanks for the support Julie.

[@144Donn]

Goodness, right on target and what an unparalleled loss to humanity, the passing of Rabbi J Sacks.

[@Kurtlane]

We are not sentencing to death ... yet. But we are already being fired from jobs.

[@AtheistEve]

Kurtlane You can blame market forces and capitalism for job losses.

[@Kurtlane]

@@AtheistEve , it is one thing to lose a job because of a general layoff. One knows he is not at fault and it's not an issue of morality. It is another thing to be fired from a job for refusing to think and obey purely political ideology that has nothing to do with the job. And on top of that be condemned as "immoral." Besides everything else, one's chances of finding another job after being fired (not laid off) are pretty bad.

[@AtheistEve]

Kurtlane It’s all market forces and capitalism. Someone will only get fired for having an “unpopular opinion” if they squawk it in public, risking a PR tailspin or HR fracas and have a management who are only interested in the profile of their company. ie all management. If we had UBI, for instance, we could all be somewhat cushioned from tyrannical bosses. We’ve all had to put up and shut up in order to keep our jobs. This isn’t a new phenomenon. And it’s a direct result of being beholden to a company for our daily bread - whatever its “mission statement”.

[@Kurtlane]

@@AtheistEve No. It got much worse when leftists (socialists, communists, SJWs, call them whatever) got into the game. Now one can be fired even if his bosses like him because some characters that have nothing to do with the company get together and demand his firing. And it's not just because he spoke up ("squacked," if you prefer) . Increasingly companies are putting "social justice" messages above their doors, on their web sites, inside their offices. Increasingly they are bringing in "specialists in whiteness" (or whatever they call themselves) to lectures all white employees MUST attend (or some similar divisive nonsense). Do you really think those employees will then be able to openly violate the new complicated "ethics" promoted by such lectures? I don't think so. There will be consequences for even unintentional violations of these. Look at the case of James Damore. He was given an assignment, he performed it, did an excellent job. But it wasn't PC, so out with him. Not to mention that hirings and firings now are increasingly done on a racial (and whatever else) basis, not character strength, skill, experience or knowledge.

[@AtheistEve]

Kurtlane All that you describe is inherent in capitalism. Companies will only do what is necessary to make a profit for its shareholders. If those shareholders deem _anything_ “non-PC”, it will undoubtedly be something that affects the bottom line. Most of the time companies have socially or environmentally progressive mission statements but continue to be socially and environmentally problematic. So it’s often just lip service. Like I said. Workers have been shutting up and putting up for years. Capitalists and neoliberals have done all they can to block _any_ dissent from their position of power by smashing unions, manufacturing consent and fixing elections, etc. If someone wants the freedom to say what they want _without consequences,_ they can by spouting their monologue into the wilderness. As soon as they spout it in public, that freedom is inevitably going to have consequences.

[@olbusoli5284]

Love this

[@rogaldorn1405]

Excellente discussion! Réflexions très intéressantes.

[@noelc.8830]

RIP Rabbi Sacks

[@elizabethevelyn9761]

I think you should discuss the ADL & SPLC.. if you are to gain any ground and penetrate this block in narrative.. Shine the light John.. please don't dance gently around the issues.. thank you

[@tsumnerbmw]

Excellent

This notion that the oppressed, by virtue of that very oppression, somehow deserve retribution is one of the most malevelont malevolent philosophies poisoning our current Society. There is no such thing as retributive justice...they are inherently opposed.

[@rogeralsop3479]

Empathy culture - an excellent discription.

[@Allen1029]

Wonderful.

[@Ray-iu7hg]

Wonderful sentiments

[@glennllewellyn7369]

Good stuff John.

[@JohnAndersonMedia]

Thanks Glenn!

[@baddbeliever]

Wow what a man he was. The very thing we fear is coming of a world culture is the very thing he criticized. Seeing the good in Christian culture has become a crime.

[@joeythomas2724]

In awe of this content. How different would the current world be if forgiveness were a civic virtue as well as a moral/spiritual virtue?

[@pseudopetrus]

It is tough for Universities and really almost every school to change because of the Unions that represent faculty.

[@AtheistEve]

The unions represent the faculty, and the students have their union too. Therefore the unions, students and faculty are in agreement. So, which part of the educational establishment do you think wants to change? Change what?

[@nathanboeger9329]

"We are not held captive by the past" - The netflix movie sections says otherwise.

[@TallisKeeton]

@snowy the snowman How sad for you to not know your ancestors :( I m 7th generation of my family and I know lots of things about my grandparents - most of their life actualy - and lots of things about my grand-grandparents - from both mother and father side - and some things also about my grand-grand-grandparents. I would like to seach more about my genealogy some day. :) I started last year by seaching internet for some infos about the cities and villages (in Poland, Ukraine and Lithuania) where my ancestors lived between centuries up to the II WW and I made my DNA test last year which sort of proved my grandma stories about from where we came - I m 95% Slavic and 5% Baltic - so my grandma story about her ancestors living in the area of central Lithuania around Vilinus would be connected to it. But now I must have more knowledge about how such genealogical study should be done properly, so I plan to search more about my grand-grandparents and grand-grand-grandparents whereabouts during 19th century. From the stories told by my ma and my grandma I know much about my grand-grandparents and a bit about their parents. I recomend you try it - its fun :) I found in internet many old photos from 1930ties from a village where one of my uncles lived in 30ties :)

[@TheCrusaderRabbits]

RIP Roger Scruton

[@ThoughtsOnNews]

How sad that Jordan Peterson is not the consensus. Were he...society would be incredibly happy and productive.✡️

[@charlesjenkinson5020]

Indeed. I felt this 'Rabbi's' view was off on that point. And having heard the rest of what he had to say, I think JP is closer to The Kingdom.

[@aquilatempestate9527]

Limp post-war liberalism is what got us into this mess. It always ends in decline and leftism, here we are. Stop thinking we can just turn back the clock and return to the boomer utopia days. If I may be so forward; grow up.

[@egverlander]

I completely agree. As the mob is led by predators, good neighbors are led by forgiveness.

[@luckyvet]

You can't move a democratic society towards a totalitarian communist regime when its people are hard working, responsible, and happy.

[@meghanryan6707]

Agree with this point. As a woman I am supposed to hate JBP, he's just fodder for all the grievance crowd to have hurt feelings about reality. Have a big ole crush on Jordan!

[@maxmullen6337]

It’s simple. “Cancelling” is a modern form of Inquisition carried out by people of the same distorted and vicious brains as the originals. Only the punishment is different. For now.

[@propriusly]

You don't understand the Inquisition. You have the popular, English propaganda concerning the actual Inquisition.

[@AntiquityCentury21]

Cancel culture is not about making people less offensive; cancel culture is about allowing only certain people to be offensive, while suppressing all voices of dissent. The deception is that we are only trying to create a more civil society, which is obviously not the case after so many years of enduring this culture.

[@louisedadge4056]

Wow!

[@Galantski]

_"All peace agreements between nations, and between individuals depend on the capacity to forgive."_ ........................................................................................ And I would add that any agreement lacking in forgiveness as its foundation is peace only in appearance, and ultimately doomed to fail.

[@thecutecooks7987]

love it

[@stimpy324]

Awesome discussion with British Ben Shapiro on valium.

[@elizabetamedvedeva]

🤣😂

[@danholo]

lol

[@deniseg-hill1730]

He has always been the same.

[@racheldeutsch8666]

I can't say I am super familiar with Rabbi Sack's Hashkafa but I am I the only one that sees the irony in an orthodox Rabbi decrying cancel culture?

[@n_communicates8030]

It's not that we can't forgive, it's that the person who had done wrong has not changed their way; they forget the mistake they made and repeat again.

[@arktana]

Great interview, thank you both gentlemen, the Judeo- Christian culture and ethics will prevail!

[@radams2403]

"The terrible human carnage at the lack of forgiving." This is so true.

[@livetwice7702]

That is very profound

[@violetarios2475]

I am in awe of Rabbi’s Sacks ability to teach life lessons with such ease and humility. The ability to forgive is not bound to someone being religious; however, it is the area where it is most emphasized. Lot’s wife turned into a pillar of salt because she decided that what she was about to leave behind was more valuable than her future if she moved on. We always have life and dead before us, we are suggested to choose life but not obligated.

[@Louis.R]

The rabbi appreciates Christianity so much, one wonders how he can resist its call upon his noble conscience. Forgiveness is a radical Christian virtue; it is only contingently a Jewish one, that is, given only when it is due.

[@earthstick]

There are two parties involved in forgiveness. To the person forgiving it relieves them of of the past, they can move on. But to the person receiving forgiveness how can someone accept forgiveness without acknowledging their wrong doing? To that person forgiveness would appear as an accusation first.

[@user-wt8zh1bx8y]

I find it weird that Christians always seem to forget that Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi too. He never wanted to create a new religion but instead wanted a reformation of it the same way Martin Luther wanted for the Catholic Church centuries later. Back in those days the theologian class was hereditary, insular, and often times elitist. As someone born from an artisan family he was pretty much denied any social mobility once he entered that field.

[@Louis.R]

@@user-wt8zh1bx8y You're not talking about me - a Jew - are you? In any case, to equate Jesus with Martin Luther or as merely a Jewish rabbi, a theologian and political activist who "wanted a reformation" and who was "denied any social mobility once he entered [the rabbinate]" is heretical to orthodox Christianity, amongst other, far more serious, charges. But it is also ignorant of that which "rabbi" meant 2000 years ago, simply and ordinarily: "teacher". Good day to you, friend.

[@igelbeatz]

@@Louis.R Jesus was a Jew and he never intended to birth a separate religion. If that fact makes you uncomfortable, that's your problem.

[@Louis.R]

@@igelbeatz Sure, Cockey Spaniard, but was Jesus *merely* a Jew?

[@universo7007]

Sabiduría en Acción! 💝🙏💝

[@JIBARO2000]

Being offended can't be the standard.

[@AJMacDonaldJr]

Augustine says (De Doctr. Christ. i, 30) that “when it is said: ‘Thou shalt love thy neighbor,’ it is evident that we ought to look upon every man as our neighbor.” Now sinners do not cease to be men, for sin does not destroy nature. Therefore we ought to love sinners out of charity. Two things may be considered in the sinner: his nature and his guilt. According to his nature, which he has from God, he has a capacity for happiness, on the fellowship of which charity is based, as stated above (Article 3; II-II:23:5), wherefore we ought to love sinners, out of charity, in respect of their nature. On the other hand their guilt is opposed to God, and is an obstacle to happiness. Wherefore, in respect of their guilt whereby they are opposed to God, all sinners are to be hated, even one's father or mother or kindred, according to Luke 14.26. For it is our duty to hate, in the sinner, his being a sinner, and to love in him, his being a man capable of bliss; and this is to love him truly, out of charity, for God's sake. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica (II-II Question 25, Article 6)

[@luruth48]

what a great mind he had

[@lapamful]

I'd reframe this somewhat. I don't believe those claiming offense at everything are actually offended. It's just a game they've been taught to play in order to win power over their victims, classic psychological manipulation tactic.

[@AtheistEve]

Your “reframe” looks a lot like a gaslighting manoeuvre. Maybe we should accept it when someone tells us they are offended and address the issue instead of trying your diversionary tactic.

[@lapamful]

@@AtheistEve Nah. Literally saw someone complain over the use of the word 'German' because it contained 'man' in that word. You guys are a joke and not to be taken seriously. No respect from me for those who just want control over our speech and thoughts.

[@AtheistEve]

lapamful This reminds me of the supposed outcry over the word “niggardly”, which I think was more an urban myth. I think the easiest way to push back would be to discuss the etymological construction of the word “Germany”. I can see how some words would have complicated or problematic histories - like the word “gay” for example. But, calling someone German, for instance, is not the same as calling them a Ger man, Ger woman or Ger person. However, if you think they’re pulling your leg. You can laugh and carry on rather than rising to what you consider bait.

[@lapamful]

@@AtheistEve that explanation was already tried. No show. This is nothing to do with Judeo-Christian values, except in that this is an effort to overturn them disguised as some idiotic kind of morality.

[@AtheistEve]

lapamful What does discussing etymology have to do with overturning “Judaeo-Christian values”?

[@earthstick]

To be forgiven you have to first recognise that you have wronged. Otherwise you don't believe you have anything to be forgiven for so you do not accept forgiveness. To a person how does not accept they have wronged, forgiveness will appear as a accusation.

[@davidrhodes6016]

If someone asked me "what's saying do you despise most"? I would very quickly answer, "I forgive but I won't forget". How can you forgive but not forget and say you have truly forgiven. Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.

[@Shamino1]

How can you chart how much better a person has become after forgiving them if you also decide to forget their past indiscretions?

[@davidrhodes6016]

​@@Shamino1 I understand the question and Peter asked somewhat the same thing in Matthew 18.21. Jesus told him to forgive 70x7 and he didn't qualify it with but "remember all the past forgiveness so you can mark their progress." He said 70x7 with no qualification. I will say this however, there is a difference when the person in your spouse or child rather than a person you have only a cursory relationship with. For the cursory relationship you should not associate with them if they are constantly undermining or using you. There are also times when your life or health or the lives or heath of your loved ones are in danger and you need to cut that person off completely. I am not talking about that. I am talking about an otherwise good relationship that should grow and be nurtured. There's no way to answer this in a short post. Sorry it's so long.

[@gideonhorwitz9434]

How can the UK be a terrible racist place if a rabbi can become a Lord.

[@ryley113]

He sounds so much younger than he is. Especially on podcast audio. I thought he was like 30 lol

[@billthompson7072]

The use of metaphor remains a misunderstanding between those not shifting to metaphenomalism

[@maryscottboria5611]

Shame has also been practiced in many religions

[@lejimmy]

I wish the Northern Irish people would listen to that bit about forgiveness. The old resentments haven't gone away sadly.

[@noblenotes27]

I feel that young people and middle age don't have enough time in their daily speed forward ,to learn the skills you are covering.

[@TallisKeeton]

very nice room :)

[@TheLookingGlassAU]

A shame culture sees humility and vulnerability as an unacceptable risk to personal dignity (which is conditional on "right" opinions). For forgiveness the be reintroduced, all the people willing to forgive need to be impervious to shame (through solid identity and dignity) and generous in forgiving even when it seems it has no effect.

[@moesypittounikos]

Rabbi Sacks is right!

[@joellukewarriorforjesusthe293]

Jesus loves you Rabbi sacks, God bless you

[@Lakoda26]

Common decency is dead and loss of forgiveness and shame-culture is key. When you're actions are required or you are shamed those who oppose you are already dead and therefore easy (or even required) to not view as human, so treating them with basic decency is not needed (or must not occur).

[@tammcd]

I think that a reverse paraphrase of George Santayana is appropriate to Sacks' message: ""'Those who refuse to forget history are doomed to repeat it.'""

[@dislocation1]

The point about the the difference between the guilt/forgiveness culture and the honour/shame culture is very important. I would add, though, that people are now being cancelled for making valid arguments based on established facts, so there's often nothing to forgive, whilst those cancelling them have much to answer for. All the same, it's the shift to a shame culture, and that is very dangerous indeed.

[@cliffjamesmusic]

Feeling offended is a choice, whatever the intention of the so-called offender. All beliefs should be open to debate and ridicule - economic, political, scientific, religious or whatever, preferably including reference to the aspects which one considers ridiculous. Universities should be a place where one is exposed to ideas other than one’s from within one’s own comfort zone. That opens a way to the process called learning.

[@TallisKeeton]

the ancient cultures of shame were also the cultures of honor and heroism. Of utter responsibility to the death. When heroism was the proper answer to most problems. Even though this kind of answering was also very destructive - as we can learn from two kinds of Tolkien heroes :) Those were the heroes of ancient heroism and there were the heroes of other, different kind of heroism. And forgiveness is one of the main topics of Tolkiens stories and of the develpment of those two kinds of heroes :) Those enslaved by utter heroism and honor but without a chance for forgivness and those other heroes whose main value in serving for freedom of all is their ability to forgive :) In Tolkien's stories some heroes of honor are also the heroes of unforgiving and of desperation and of revenge. :) There are those two kinds of heroism in Tolkiens stories - heroism of ancient cultures of honor - tragic, destructive personages, and the more gentle heroism of those heroes of christianic values :) So IMO the ancient cultures of shame were also the cultures of honor and heroism - not only Japan, but also for example vikings. Which is q. funny becouse today's political ideologies seem to try to incorporate in them shaming as a tool, but without its proper connection to honor and to heroism topics which those two topics are - I presume - for todays political ideologies the topics of "right-wing" and the topics of conservatism and the topics of old cultures. I think that its a shame that todays political ideologies dont popularise that shame culture must have its proper balance, and with the negative action in the form of shame comes also positive action in the form of honor and heroism. So I would want to ask the left-wing ideologies - what about learning about honor and heroism? Those two are proper answer to the shameful behaviours :) You want to teach shame? Ok, but there is no proper use for shame without honor and heroism. What shame I can have if I did nothing against my honor and I would strive to develop my heroism? :) You cannot give me shame becouse shame would be only my punishment if I did smt wrong against honor and havent tried to better my heroism. You want to give shame to other ppl? Hell, yeah you can try but first you must be responsible yourself both for the shame and for honor. I dont need to talk to ppl who has no honor and shame they have only for others. You want to give ppl shame? You must have it for yourself as well as honor. The culture of shame you wanted to use? But you just trapped yourselves becouse there is no culture of shame without the culture of honor and heroism. :)

[@TallisKeeton]

thank you to the persons who fav it :) btw those two kinds of Tolkien heroes. The first kind is about ancient, pagan heroism - doing my plans even to utter destruction of myself. Such was the heroism and honor of Thorin, Feanor, Feanor's sons, and Turin. The other kind of Tolkien's heroes are the ones about whom we can tell that their heroism and their honor is more gentle. And with those second kind of Tolkien heroes their tale is about heroism yes, but it is also more about forgiveness, hope, and humility. The second kind of Tolkien heroes are mainly hobbits, but also Gandalf and Dunedain - king's ppl . :)

[@leonpope861]

Shame and guilt are not the same. I been looking into this for 24 years. The thing is we reach adulthood we lose our curiosity to reach, grasp and fathom beyond what we learn in our youth. I Google up shame etymology I ascertained this; Of all the words similar to shame guilt was not among it 🤔 The difference being guilt is what you have done. You steal, you are guilty of stealing. Yet it is written in 1st John 1:9-10 ,If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say, "We do not have any sin," we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. Shame you do not have to do anything. Someone can shame you because they have disorder love and are hateful and been conditioned to harm. People who shame have a lust to control, dominate, destroy not reconcile, lift up and love because God loves. Here a suggestion also stop behaving like shaming is a new phenomenon it is not 😏 People who shame are as Jung said being controlled by their collective unconscious, look into what that means. What we do not accept. We are sinners. Shaming is a symptom of disorder called sin. It is contained in the original sin. The world we live in have a lot of resentment, disdainment and indignation, it is causing many people to seek VINDICATION, revenge, destruction. We must have a awareness about we can fall prey to our sententious tendency. Christ through the convicting power of the Holy Spirit can move are Heart from a bitterness that leads to hubris and harm not a thing called christianity ,religion, or spirituality. The former our person. The latter are just words.

[@jbo1721]

RIP

[@tommclaughlin7179]

Appreciate the Rabbi clear talk - however I don’t agree Judaism is based on love and forgiveness but more law and works. However I am a graphed branch into the vine of Israel and pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

[@jazura2]

Your interpretation is based on some Christian points of view. Within the law are the commandments to love your neighbour as yourself and not to do unto others what is hateful to you. Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi and knew the law (the Torah)

[@davidkiser5206]

I never look at it this way either. The difference between a Shamed & Guilt culture. My ancestors were Confederate soldiers during the American civil war. Afterwards they were givin forgiveness by President Lincoln & General Grant if they'd lay down Arms, and pledge allegiance to the Union, they did, along with teaching generations to come like myself to be loyal to America.

[@bendigeidfranemmanueljones5694]

Surely they are winning because we have been forgiving them.

[@aawe1]

China has a "shame" culture, just a comment for people to take into their own accounts. This does not mean that all Chinese people are driven by "shame" culture but their prospects within their families are and also their prospects within their society are, unfortunately for those people. In the religious Judeo-Christian world, on the other hand, "guilt" culture dictates the person's estimation by his/her family and society Very insightful commentary.

[@JimOverbeckgenius]

A story briefly & quickly told & here for a reason [below]. My maternal grandfather provided "ladies of the night & placed any unwanted children" for kings George V & VI and their retinues & shooting-parties, around Beeston & Cliftonside [Notts] during WWII and before. Of minor aristocratic descent, 2 of his own daughters were involved in this lifestyle, 1 of whom produced me. As a slum-kid I saw lots of Jewish children around + traumatized adults with tattooed numbers on their arms + I heard horrible stories. I grew up in extreme poverty, with my returned soldier step-father running a brutal regime. My mother tried to gas herself & me when I was a small boy, but the door was kicked in & we were rescued. However, as a boy soldier age 16 I was outed as a super-genius & equated with the Jewish prodigy, WJ Sidis, IQ 250-300. I became a mathematical scholar, 10 maths profs gave me testimonials & I attended 3 top universities. Age 27 I underwent the Vision of God and Christ Almighty paid me a visit. Academics said: Overbeck - a genius but insane. Yet one of my great friends Freddy Frankl, Victor's cousin & George's brother, consulted me for a decade before his death [I owned a bookshop with intelligent stock & we ate together on a weekly basis]. I have written the largest illustrated book since Leonardo & I own an art-gallery where it still continues its growth. It deals with maths, logic, philosophy, art, history, psychology, theology, foundations of language [Arabic, Greek, Latin, German, English - alas, my Hebrew teacher was expensive and a dismal Arab scholar]. But to get to the point: I recently did a DNA test and my father was a Jewish cuckoo who visited my mother's nest. I know she "dated" Sir Stanley Black & Sir Joe Loss, but my high-rolling, very well-connected, highly-intelligent papa is unknown & the records of Clifton Hall from 1935 to circa 1952 have been removed. I thought of contacting Lord Rothschild, because he always disavows any aristocratic lineage but, nevertheless, someone mit ein Yiddisher Kopf connected to queen Catherine Parr et al through me. What bothers me - this side of the grave - is I might have missed a brother or sister or two. PS Becoming part Jewish at least explains my name Derek, my unusual brain-power and the miraculous verpa. I suspect it links in mysteriously with my ancient ancestors also, especially the Jerusalem lot.

[@tracykatrinaobrien6998]

Guilt- I did something wrong and can change. Shame- I am bad and there is no hope.

And my perfectly reasonable comment got deleted. Thanks KZbin.

[@glennllewellyn7369]

It was a happy little comment!

[@ReverseTranscriptase]

I've gotten into the habit of using ctrl+a and then ctrl+c every so often, and especially before I post the comment. That way I can fine-tune it and see which words are being targeted for censorship. I don't lose my comment that way either if it gets deleted shortly after posting. Ways around censorship (and it's getting bad, even mentioning the word "race" is being censored right now in some instances) include 1337 speak, such as r4ce, or flipping the i upside down with an exclamation point, as in the word rac!st. You can't even type paragraphs that are against neonaz!sm anymore. KZbin doesn't care about context, the actual substance of the entire comment, or the long game: they only care about protecting us from words we type, because they may offend someone with 90 I.Q.