Race and IQ - Sam Harris and Charles Murray Set the Record Straight on Intelligence Testing

[@MrNiggle123]

It blows my mind how weak minded people are about race and IQ. Why do you need to believe that every single group of people are exactly equal, when it's so demonstrably false?

[@DKFX1]

The research Murray has done specificly demonstrates average group differences, phosphoric.

[@stonetrouble5053]

I have a strong mind and can never trust left-handed vegetarians with a broken leg. This group! They are dragging us down, weak minded. What a paradise this would be without them!

[@MrNiggle123]

stonetrouble This isn't about genocide, it's about liberals looking at group differences in income, employment, etc. and chalking up inequality to "white privilege". Race and IQ explains the world far more coherently and it means we can stop blaming whitey for everything.

[@KB5RYE]

It contradicts the liberal narrative that everyone is infinitely malleable via education. That personality, personal identity and IQ can all be remade to their ideal if you just lecture people enough.

[@jackvai2681]

IQ tests measure intellectual potential...with potential being the operative segment of that term.

[@unkorichie2029]

Every time I watch the news, I see the Bell Curve in full effect.

[@PBCBlount]

So true.

[@3d1e00]

I see the old Dunning-Kruger effect more than anything else. The hardest skill to learn is the skill to know when you don't have the skill. Sometimes the best thing a person can do is admit they cannot do it.

[@willharriman1881]

@@3d1e00 You seem to be confused! If a person lacks a specific skill, it is possible to LEARN said specific skill. Obviously, a short person cannot LEARN to be tall! However, a person with a very small vocabulary can certainly LEARN additional vocabulary words. A person's knowledge and skills can definitely be improved. IQ test scores have limited importance. Improved education is far more important!

[@3d1e00]

@@willharriman1881 I was highlighting the difficulty a person has in evaluating their own skill. I replied to the bell curve example as I believe, and have experienced in relatively frequent occurrence of people over estimating their capabilities, thus dunning Kruger reference. You can only learn something if you know you need to learn it. If you want to talk about the iq thing and whether you can truly teach anything to anyone (within reason) then I would be really happy to talk about it. I struggle with it daily and have spent years and years trying to learn better ways to portray ideas and concepts. I have failed at this on many occasions. To be honest at this point I no longer believe all members of our species have the same intellectual capacity or potential. Be this cultural, genetic, or caused by some other reason I do not know. But we need to think about it as a species and be kind while doing it. If we are seriously going to shut down scientific conversations about pseudo taboo concepts without actually evaluating them I struggle to see how we can move forwards. If you come back and say you don't have a problem learning new things, good for you. What about everyone else?

[@willharriman1881]

@@3d1e00 You mentioned, " the difficulty a person has in evaluating their own skill.". Are you talking about some lying, arrogant jackass? If some lying, arrogant jackass claims to have a substantial background in calculus but cannot actually work any calculus problems at all, does he not KNOW his own lack of skill?

[@LiViro1]

As a white European man, I have no problem with science showing Eastern Asians on average being smarter than "my" group. And Ashkanasi Jews being smarter than Eastern Asians, on average.

[@LiViro1]

Yes, as they say; there is a lot more variation within groups than between groups.

[@Benaddicted11trkfbal]

Wouldn't you still have to say its cultural in the end though? Jews are semites, they are genetically similar to those in the fertile crescent. Yet arabs and palestinians have iqs in the 80s while ashkenazi jews are 115 averages. They outscore they northerners which are supposed to be the smartest.

[@ThePlatinumMatt]

Saying "who gives a fuck there's variation" is exactly on point, and probably the simplest way to put it lol.

[@daniescheepers3812]

Until you have Jacob Zuma in South Africa as your president!

[@ThePlatinumMatt]

@Dominique Bender you're making a horrible assumption about "smart people", without backing it up at all. Surely you're smart enough to know that you need to prove that shit without just saying "A SMRT GUY WAS BAD!111111!!!!1!"

[@QuinnsIdeas]

Ultimately you have to judge people individually. Honestly who gives a shit about any of this. Some black people are smarter than some white people some white people are smarter than some Asian people and everything in between.

[@schecter1425]

Still trying to figure out why people on my campus called him a white supremacist. Seems like at worst he is just a contraversial social scientists who is asking taboo questions.

[@Savantt7]

If you don't believe all of the values of the current ideology of social justice then you are a racist apparently.... get a grip college students :p

[@adidas198]

He is talking about people having inferior intelligence because of their race. Most people show IQ lists of countries and conclude that because European countries have higher IQ it's because of their race.....somehow not taking into account that African and Middle Eastern countries are poorer, have less schools and therefore less education which will lower the scores of whatever tests they take.

[@DKFX1]

Because Western Educational Systems have been infiltrated by psychotic marxist lefties who proliferate pure emotional lunacy.

[@schecter1425]

Clearly you haven't read the book if you think he didn't take that into account. And to be honest I haven't read the whole thing, but I have read enough of it, specifically the controversial chapters, to know that your statement is false.

[@anthonyzav3769]

there is a new Leninist trend in colleges - a work is judged not on it's quality or truth. a work is judged on it's political bona fides.

[@thomasowen5785]

"we're doing enormous harm to young people by making it harder to treat them as individuals" You hit the nail on the head there buddy. I don't want to be tokenized or mistreated based on my group identity. I don't want to be judged, accepted or rejected based on group identity. I certainly don't want to make a habit of judging others based on any superficial category they might fit into

[@asdfasdfasdf3029]

they dont like to touch on this subject because it explains a lot of difference in outcome

[@chrisp4908]

Lol no it doesn’t. You’re establishing a causal link when there isn’t one.

[@spencer5028]

They prefer blaming White ppl for everything

[@itskelvinn]

@@chrisp4908 how is it not causal? The single best predictor that an employer can use if they only had one metric is IQ. They mention that before they even talk about tace

[@alistairnunes7107]

@RoLodge Hotels & Resorts as always instead of looking at your own flaws you blame the ones who were more successful than you (whites and Asians) for your own failures. Just like gentiles blamed and continue to blame the Jews.

[@alistairnunes7107]

@@chrisp4908 correlation may not be causality but it definitely suggests causality. Bill Gates states from his own experience at Microsoft that the best predictor of a performance of an engineer is the IQ. He definitely knows what he is talking about

[@hmb8801]

Wake up people ,we are different .

[@karabomothupi9759]

@@ricardoluque1931 lies. Black people were oppressed

[@sadpixel8533]

karabo mothupi you just proved his point, tragically

[@karabomothupi9759]

@@sadpixel8533 How you Neanderthal?

[@ricardoluque1931]

@Roy Rogers all I'm saying is that white lions are better faster and strong than the old boring yellow lion. IQ100000000

[@karabomothupi9759]

@Tyler Durden true

[@jameseldridge3445]

Real life is the biggest indicator for truth. I live outside of a major city, and you can see the disparity whenever you go downtown. I took the metro to a baseball game, all you see at the station are my people (blacks) either panhandling, playing music/dancing, or standing around smoking. On the commute it's all uppity whites internally fearful but having to subconsciously pretend it's due to the poverty or slavery. On the train we'll be the loudest and most disruptive, but whites have to keep quiet because they fear being called racist. We arrive at the stadium (in the most gentrified area) and its all blacks bargaining waters, hats, tickets, and whites give them money either out of guilt or shame. In the stadium its whites in the press boxes and office rooms while blacks do the most simple jobs like punch your ticket or pass out beers. Its just fascinating to me how unnatural the interactions are. More so how much we go thru life lying to ourselves about reality and why things are the way they are. I feel 2nd hand embarrassment when I'm in the city because they look at me and instantly play the white guilt complex or expect me to internally hate them, or act like the rest. Its like we've been fed lies about reality to shield our emotions, and if you don't believe the lie then you're evil, heartless, etc. I think the phrase is moralistic fallacy, but public opinion is definitely the most powerful thing in a democratic, heterogeneous society.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

Thank you for telling it like it is, James. Stating facts is all you are doing. If a White person were to have wrote what you did a certain idiot here would have denounced you calling you a racist. For some reason he hates the truth and would rather prove himself to be a liar. Thank God not all are like him.

[@tomyocom5886]

James, I feel yuh, And I love this observation. I think these two guys are happy with these STUDIES by WHOMEVER because they are on the right side of the CURVE.. Seems like a club, the 80/20 club all over the world make the rules for that particular STUDY.

[@bloodaonadeline8346]

100%

[@bloodaonadeline8346]

@@tomyocom5886i’m sorry are you saying there is no correlation between race and IQ?

[@LizaFan]

"subconsciously pretend it's due to the poverty or slavery" lmao

[@sameasnow]

things to keep in mind that can't be stated clearly enough: 1) average performance implies nothing about an individual 2) an individual's performance implies nothing about the average 3) small differences in average performance can have a large effect on overall performance/competitive performance (the smaller the winner's pool, the more it is representative of the group with a higher average performance) 4) average and overall performance can affect the individual at the social and psychological level in a positive or negative way.

[@paullangford8179]

Intelligence and worthiness have little relationship. There are a lot of intelligent arseholes.

[@mickeydrago9401]

That's some of the most boring trite and not needed common sense point by point commentary I've read in a long time, goes without saying garbage that really is largely inaccurate in the bigger picture anyway... when of course averages and individual scores are all inclusive in the big picture, in any type of dynamic multivariate thinking... To merely point out that there is a distribution and one data point is not some microcosm representative of the whole hardly needs saying, stupid

[@mickeydrago9401]

1. Individual performance represents a fraction of the representative sampling, and thus indicates a percentage above or below the mean

[@mickeydrago9401]

1. Average performance indicates something about the individual, He is close to the median if not exactly on the median given equal proportions above and below him

[@mickeydrago9401]

3. Gaps in the metrics are huge between humans, Any small difference up or down from the average is overlooked compared to the top of the class or the bottom... Disproportionate gaps represent the elite, not some small difference in the averages one way or the other... Relative comparisons can be perception

[@jbhrs]

We need to be honest about race and stop fearing the discussion

[@jorgecallico9177]

Agreed. Academia keeps trying to fit these square pegs into round holes. Instead of trying to raise the intellect of the lower scoring people? Perhaps we should make jobs for them that better fit their abilities. We've been doing this a bit by putting blacks into transportation type jobs. Bus driver, train operator etc. Yet this trend should continue. Plus it's much more likely to succeed.

[@jbhrs]

Roy Rogers oh of course not Neil de grasse Tyson is a smart guy smarter than me I’m just saying we don’t need to shy away from study this type genetics

[@jbhrs]

Roy Rogers well that’s not really to true their are many biological differences though minor they are result to short term adaptation. white people are more likely to get skin cancer because they lack melanin to protect them from the sun but white skin was an adaptation to cloudy cold climate, so white skin can absorb for vitamin D from the atmosphere than darker skin can. Europeans are more vulnerable to skin cancer. Caucasians which includes Europeans, middle easterns, Iranian, North Africans, and even Indians have more Neanderthal genetics, there is a racial and gender difference in the blood brain barrier (BBB) which protect brain from toxins in the blood, women have thicker BBB because they have to carry a child that creates more toxins in the body during the process. black people, on average, have thinner BBB than white people which leads them to be more vulnerable to toxins. Native Americans unlike Europeans cannot process alcohol like we can, this is why alcohol is such a big problem for Native Americans today. Hispanic people can’t process high fructose corn syrup as well as Europeans and Africans this makes them more vulnerable to obesity in America, because in many other nations they use real cane sugar instead of cheap corn gunk we use here. A large portion of the world that do not have Caucasian genetics are lactose intolerant because only Caucasian people really have a history of drinking animal milk. African people on average have more high twitch muscle fibers than all the other people this is why majority of medal winning runners are African. Also why they on average are superior athletically, theirs a lot we can learn and explain from these genetic studies and to just burry our heads in sand and avoid the topic isn’t productive or helpful for anyone. We all agree that we want to live in society where we’re all treated equal by the law I know that something we can all agree regardless of genetic differences.

[@jbhrs]

Jorge Callico no let people get they job that they’re best qualified for, I’m not calling to assign jobs based on racial characteristics this would be horrible to do We all agree that we want to live in society where we’re all treated equal by the law I know that something we can all agree regardless of genetic differences.

[@jbhrs]

Roy Rogers true but races in one form or another are geographic families so there’s no fineline of genetic differences but “races” refer to the different gene pools of the same species. Gene pools are different because of geographical location or environment for example human gene pool of Europe is a gene pool because they share a multitude of traits such as facial structure and white skin that is an environmental adaptation to colder sunless environment this goes same for gene pool from Africa that has more darker skin to protect them from equator sun rays. “Race” is simply a synonym for gene pools; these gene pools are not genetically different enough to be considered different species

[@rekthur5406]

The 100m dash doesn't indicate how fast you are. It only indicates how good you are at running the 100m dash.

[@ComradeOgilvy1984]

And if you ask Jamaican running coaches, they will explain that sprinting is a skill that is trained and honed through practice (the environment), as well as requiring physical strength which can be improved through work (the environment). Outsiders throw up their hands and say "Wow! Those Jamaicans are just miraculously fast". Jamaicans understand it differently, that they love running and races, and start training and racing from a young age. They became the best in the world by not looking to genetics.

[@cooldudecs]

Huh? It’s genes...

[@ilikepancakes2368]

@Charles Maybe because there aren’t that many Asian athletes?

[@NotAfraidToQuestionThings]

@@ilikepancakes2368 In 2019, approximately 7.13 million people participated in major running sport events held in China. Also in 2019, there were 2.9 million living Jamaicans.

[@sineadbridges]

@@ComradeOgilvy1984ok now apply that to particle physics…..

[@redmen2822]

We see genetic differences in practically every physiological trait of human beings. I'd be profoundly surprised if there were no intellectual differences across ethnic/racial groups

[@sickperfection6956]

Murray’s final remark is absolutely poetic.

[@LDSpecialist1]

I have been an educational therapist for 25 years, teaching clients one-on-one. I review and tailor my instruction based on cognitive (IQ) testing ... I also have a degree in mathematics and have taught that. The fact is most Americans have poor/weak math skills (NAEP testing reports that only 25% of high school seniors are rated as "proficient" in math ... that has been my experience as a math teacher too) ... IQ test scores are based on Statistics ... few people understand Statistics ... even many college educated and professional people ... Hence IQ testing is grossly misunderstood by the public!

[@jamesbedukodjograham5508]

Statistics is a very understanding subject to study at the College level,

[@fipbip2794]

😂 good god

[@granthurlburt4062]

What? @@jamesbedukodjograham5508

[@EnglishEvolution]

I think anyone who has interacted with the public would intuit this

[@proudatheist2042]

Thank you for your insight.

[@Orf]

13:00 Controversial part..."Our 'crime' in the book..." 13:45 "Seems that IQ has to do with both environmental and genetic..."

[@graceandpanic9281]

I disagree with that. It’s the average IQ among the particular population that develop environment.

[@MrRandomcommentguy]

what isn't a taboo on the left?

[@magnus08f250]

Simon Coles anything against whites people

[@jlrinc1420]

@@brainbomb9482 Actually the new atheist movement is almost entirely populated by the reactionary right. The progressive movement generally sees religion as a force for good in the world.

[@jlrinc1420]

@@brainbomb9482 Harris is a right winger, hitchens pinker they are all right wing reactionaries.

[@jlrinc1420]

@@brainbomb9482 Look at what Harris supports. He supported the Iraq war. Racial profiling ,torture, He supports the Israeli occupation, Racial disparities are caused by genetics, Everything he says is a right wing talking poin. All of those four horsemen are right wingers. Even Pinker defends the neo liberal status quo, thinks we are living in the least violent times thinks US power is used constructively. No progressive believes any of the things these atheists say.

[@BlacksmithTWD]

Accepting logical fallacies as an argument?

[@matthewacuren]

Thank you both for having this conversation.

[@esquire9445]

Thomas Sowell said something similar... he did fine at Harvard, and he knew a lot of black guys that dropped out. He said, would they have been better off graduating from an above average school? Or dropping out of Harvard and not getting a degree.

[@MENDLER1]

Discrimination (affirmative action) is not a way to fight discrimination

[@LebronCCP]

It’s one way and a very effective one

[@oo88oo]

When I sometimes went out socializing with people in Mensa, at a bar or something, and other people asked how we knew each other and we told them what our group was, we would always kind of defend ourselves almost automatically by immediately adding that it just meant that we were good at taking tests. I believe it was a group disingenuousness, and we never talked about how we always did that.

[@SethMcFartlane]

I often have the same issue when I go out with friends. People come up to us with their hands on their hips and their brows thoroughly furrowed and exclaim "How do you all know each other?!" We just smile, pat them on the head, and say "You wouldn't get it."

[@realtruth3762]

It's ironic because athletes brag about being better than others nonstop

[@cathoderay305]

@@realtruth3762 That is absolutely true - I had a very athletically successful stepson who was reasonably intelligent (~110 IQ). He thought very highly of himself and looked down on everyone else who wasn't as fit and capable on the court, in the ring, and at getting women into bed. No humility whatsoever and incapable of gratitude to boot.

[@YoungMommy14]

I wouldn't refer to it as a 'Group Disingenuousness'. I think it can more aptly be described as 'behaving like an adult'. Going around and talking about your alleged 'intelligence' is unbelievably juvenile. I'm assuming you're rather young. When you grow older, you'll realize that modesty is a wonderful 'core principle' to subscribe to. It will take you far. I'm not only referring to 'monetary success'. It's also quite imperative when it comes to maintaining healthy relationships (of all kinds). How often do you think Einstein bragged about his intelligence? Strive to be more like Albert Einstein and less like Donald Trump who is so consumed with insecurity that he constantly has to fraudulently tell 'everyone' that he 'knows more about' every conceivable topic in The Universe.

[@juanme555]

@@cathoderay305 No offense but that's a midwit. Your son isn't reasonably intelligent, he's just a mediocre in steroids.

[@向你祖母問好]

People angry at the book probably have not even attempted to read the book. Usually people that can't read 1 page without checking facebook.

[@ChiefMasterGuru]

@Roy Rogers god finally somebody in this comment section that isnt howling dog whistles lmao

[@gaussminigun]

@@ChiefMasterGuru "dog whistles"

[@frankk1512]

It's amazing isn't it, including the right wing trolls. The book is 1/6ths IQ and race and 1/6ths the fundamentals of IQ. The other 4/6ths is "Houston we have a problem" Here is what we could/can do.

[@frankk1512]

@Adolf Shekelberg Not an argument

[@smaakjeks]

Why should anyone read a book about science that did not go through scientific peer-review?

[@HieronymousLex]

Most of the bell curve was actually not about race, just that one chapter was. I think even Charles forgot that at the end

[@mickeydrago9401]

To make it more about race read Philippe Rushton and his RACE EVOLUTION AND BEHAVIOR

[@karabomothupi9759]

Racist

[@mickeydrago9401]

@@karabomothupi9759 And what's wrong with that? Being honest should be a value and given credit

[@ideapowerfulweapon]

It's where the sensationalism lies and so that's where the conversation frequently goes.

[@jaylin0626ify]

@@mickeydrago9401 believing that you’re Superior to someone because of their skin color is nothing to be proud of. Nor is it a good nothing. These conversations always leads to people want to oppress another group. I will not be treated as a second class citizen.

[@powertuber4.068]

Murray forgot to figure Mr. O's mummer was as wit as snoooo 23:40

[@TommyGunz327]

Not to mention that Obama isn’t extremely intelligent. He has around an IQ of 130 or so.

[@contrastprinciple4389]

Conversely some people can be extremely intelligent but not very creative. Knowledge is found on the back of tinkerers.

[@originalbillyspeed1]

For example: me I score about 120 (gifted category) on IQ tests, yet my creativity is infinitesimally small. In structured and strict schools (schedule and expectations), I thrive. In schools where there is a lack of clear expectations on performance, I fail miserably. Perhaps that is due to motivation issues. However, my least favorite and worst subjects follow the curve of how much creativity is involved.

[@JorisBogaerts]

Creative tinkerers can be very interesting to watch though the results can be rather spectacular in odd and dangerous ways. If you don't get this statement might I direct you too the book "Ignition" by John D. Clark about the early days of the Nasa rocket development. Those guy were brilliant, creative and a bloody menace to everything around them!

[@janick01ify]

@@originalbillyspeed1 I find that the people who are most successful have Multi-variant talent and are extroverts. Smart doesn’t make you money proving that your useful that makes you money, not only useful, but consistent My brother is successful for these reasons while I am a complete disappointment to myself and those who love me. They don’t tell me that, but truth is usually not explicitly stated, as this podcast reviles. I don’t know what my point is, but good luck to us. Perhaps google “jobs for people that don’t like people” since you have a 120 IQ you will be capable of most of those jobs. My measly 100 or so can not, so maybe you can use my idea, since I cannot.

[@soulfuzz368]

True but the unintelligent tinkerers probably accomplish a lot less

[@wilmer89]

Creativity is mostly related to openness to experience

[@HG-qo9cx]

I find this video intriguing, not so much for the data which is so available, but rather for the bravery it took to discuss this taboo subject in today’s society.

[@terencefield3204]

The rest are either gutless or simple liars

[@powertuber3.047]

Murray forgot to figure Mr. O's mummer was as wit as snoooo 23:40

[@LukeWyldfire]

As a possible answer as to "why does this matter:" My high school's biggest problem, according to the administration, was the achievement gap between whites and blacks. The white students tended to score higher on average on standardized tests than the black students. If it's true that the black students were just on average not as smart, and there were very few factors in the school environment at play, they were being set up for failure. They were being told to compete with white students and then being treated with disappointment when they failed. The school put tons of effort into trying to "fix" the social landscape of the school to cater more to black students. I can imagine that environment would have made me detest school and made me feel like I was the problem the school wanted to fix.

[@mrsgolden6526]

@spot light and what are all these factors, especially when it comes to the parents, influenced by? They are all influenced by how smart people are, in other words their IQ

[@agtrherhger484]

It matters because the left thinks it doesnt

[@WaterMan-ss6eb]

Relax everyone is getting a trophy !

[@laurentfortier5442]

Ooooooooo ooo

[@shin-ishikiri-no]

Many Asians have experienced the same living among whites.

[@michaelhiggins2562]

Yes, I've been in a class when it was obvious to me that everyone in that class was "much" smarter than "I." I dropped the class, still graduated from grad school, still got a better than average job. I just wasn't ready to learn with than high performance group.

[@ConnorChambers-x7u]

Certain careers require a certain IQ threshold thats just reality

[@jamesbedukodjograham5508]

In fact Americans are way too obsessed with IQ Testing. If People from Ghana can get Degrees in all subjects from Archaelogy to Zoology. It doesnt mean that Black Africans cannot be excellent, There has been too much emphasis on Academics in many African Nations.

[@jamesbedukodjograham5508]

@@ConnorChambers-x7u Yeah like Piloting and Medical Work.

[@jamesbedukodjograham5508]

@@basilmagnanimous7011 Is it because you are a white American out there.

[@joemann5378]

I'm so damned intelligent that I turned the volume off and was able to understand this interesting conversation from the spectrogram displayed alone. Where does that place me on the Bell Curve???

[@veranochick]

Me too! 🤣

[@huejanus5505]

I tried that too, but then realized it was really Beethoven's 9th symphony.

[@rickk2108]

I played it backwards and it said "Paul is dead".

[@michaelheery6303]

TRUMP LOVES YOU it says

[@forestgump99]

Probably at the Bell End...

[@archstanton5311]

Europe had universities 500 years before the first white man set foot in Africa. To say there is no intellectual differences when there CLEARLY are physical differences is bewildering.

[@carlosenriqueulloa]

No one has a problem saying blacks are genetically stronger and faster. It's positive, and It's also true. All truth should be embraced and accepted, even if it's negative, as long as it's true.

[@jesperburns]

@Alan Roberts Blacks have higher rates of skeletal muscle fiber. It wouldn't make much sense for them to only be faster, not stronger. I mean "Ever seen ice skating? Must mean whites are faster... " doesn't make sense for the same reason as pointing to Strongman competition.

[@jesperburns]

@Alan Roberts I guess you missed the point of my ice skating analogy. Let's see if I can make it more clear. If 90% of the participants of a sport are of one race; it's less likely to have a winner out of the remaining 10%. Not impossible. Less likely. Same goes for swimming. Or boxing, it's basically impossible to have such a disproportionate amount of good boxers from Mexico on the basis of genes: it's cultural.

[@jesperburns]

@Alan Roberts _"swimming; whites are better swimmers for physical reasons"_ Which physical attributes might that be? _"they also tend to be stronger for physical reasons"_ Again, what reasons? It's simply untrue for reasons I already mentioned. Whites win more because there's 90 whites for every 10 black people competing in those sports (ice skating, swimming, strongman, etc). These sports have historically been "white sports". There's far more white people doing these sports than blacks, hence the disproportionate number of winners. This has been my point all along and it's staggering that you still don't get it. If the talent pool of one race is 10 times the size that of the other, the chances of having a winner amongst the larger group is obviously bigger.

[@mikeyu5769]

​@jesperburns blacks on avg have denser bones.

[@subhuman3408]

Score gap is higher among rich blacks and whites. Adoption and intervention doesn't reduce the gap.

[@MichaTheLight]

Can you give the study to that would like to take a glance at it. Thx

[@hotshotslingshot]

I'm white. Grew up with a brother and a sister to a single mother making $5/hr in West Virginia in the 80's/early 90's. I made straight F's in the 10th grade and decided to drop out. Got a job at McDonald's then 7/11. Decided to study English Math (algebra/geometry/trig), history and politics for a year on my own. Took the GED. Did well and passed. Took the ACT (Marshall U uses the ACT not SAT). Did well, got in but had to take 2 remedial courses because that was the policy. Took out several student loans and worked full time at a factory. Graduated with a 3.1 GPA (think it would have been better if I wasn't working from 11PM to 7 AM every day). Now working as a private equity accountant in South FL making 90K/yr. Brother is a successful attorney, sister is a stay at home mom. Make of all that what you will.

[@Saddamuel]

Well done!

[@allydea]

35:20 Did Sam really ask _"why seek knowledge in a particular field?"_ Knowledge is always valuable, regardless of topic. I thought this is an obvious fact for any scientist.

[@explodingheart2824]

It's how people use that knowledge. They can use it for good, or bad.

[@allydea]

@@explodingheart2824 That is a downstream problem and one that should not be the concern of the knowledge seeker. But this is a philosophical issue, so I understand if you value it differently. But I submit to you that it's a lot more difficult to do harm with truth than with falsehood. If you can offer an example that contradicts this premise, I'd be interested to know.

[@explodingheart2824]

@@allydea should we categorize. And if so how do you fit in people of multi race. Intelligence varies and I guess it's just a bit uncomfortable for me and others. I also believe there is an underlying fear that racism will lead up to something extremely serious and that's why people choose to fight the conversation for better or worse.i too fall under that fear because of my skin even though I may look a certain way dosent mean I fall under that stereotype.

[@explodingheart2824]

@@allydea working on racial differences may be good maybe we need this in order to fix society. You are probably right we will see and ask more questions when we get there. Hopefully someone doesn't do something bad though because I value human life I'd rather not be categorized as sub human.

[@allydea]

@@explodingheart2824 My point was about the pursuit of knowledge in a general sense. But specifically about the IQ question, if we can study the cosmos, I'm sure we'll be able to rigorously study human intelligence as well. A better understanding of the races with their similarities and differences will stress the need to respect each other on the basis of our commonly agreed morality, not based on biological equality. All individuals are different. Just like you would expect to be granted the same amount of respect and dignity if you were 4 inches taller or shorter, the same should be expected if you were 2 shades darker or lighter. The premise that the reason why we should value each other equally as humans is because we are in fact equal is dangerous, because in practice any child can see that humans are not equal. The reason we should value each other equally is because this is how we choose to live in our society.

[@joshmccollen700]

Four and a half years later and it's still an excellent and eye opening conversation. I've directed people to this and they've had their minds changed in line with the science of human intelligence.

[@lordmcdeath01]

Oh the hell. It is. Any sort of analysis of race and iq taken at this level is a miss leading nonsense. Because it fails to track a delta v. It doesn't take into account changes over time. Any differences genetically shouldn't change in hundreds of years. Drift doesn't happen that quick

[@joshmccollen700]

@@lordmcdeath01 But the Bell Curve isn't about race. It's about intelligence in humans broadly. The interview Murray did with Harris cleared up the "controversy" around the book.

[@powertuber3.047]

Murray forgot to figure Mr. O's mummer was as wit as snoooo 23:40

[@pardivuspodcast]

Treat people as individuals. That's my takeaway. Group differences are meaningless.

[@landofthesilverpath5823]

@@sinatra222 250 years of Europeans uplifting and giving technology, medicine, learning, to the rest of the world, and causing an explosion in the population, life expectancy, literacy, and education levels of the planet, is not oppression. The world, if anything, owes the west. Big time.

[@raydosson2025]

I wouldn't say meaningless, but yes, we should treat people as individuals.

[@heldinahtmlhell]

Correct, but you have to apply that across the board, and be consistent with it.

[@tjzini]

I remember the controversy over that regatta question when I was taking the exam way back in the day. I live smack dab in the middle of the country in flat farm country. I'm as far from a country club person as you could possibly be. For some reason I remember getting that question right thru the elimination of the other possible answers. In addition, I had a pretty good vocabulary from liking to read.

[@petmensan]

North and South Korea have been separated for 70 years, North Korea is starving and has the same average iq, where is the environmental difference?

[@manifestgtr]

"We're getting closer to the rods at the core of the reactor" hahahah Man, that's an analogy that couldn't be any more perfect.

[@leslielandberg5620]

as in nimrods? that's mean but hilarious

[@kfiralfiavideo]

It’s a unique analogy but when I thought about it, it didn’t make sense. The rods of a nuclear reactor core are used to diminish the nuclear reaction, not increase it. It would be equivalent to say “we’re getting closer to the brake pads at the wheels of the Ferrari” - Sam should know better and formulate higher quality analogies with that wicked IQ of his.

[@Metaphix]

@@leslielandberg5620 no, it means the closer you get to it, to the truth, the more radioactive it becomes.

[@scrembaldmedia]

To say that race doesn't exist is like saying that words don't exist. Humans have invented these terms to be able to communicate. I work with a woman who doesn't want to use the term "black" or "colored", so she's trying to refer to our costumers by other terms which only complicate things. One time she refered to the only black person out on the patio as "the man with the yellow T-shirt", even though there was three men with yellow-ish T-shirts there... That's just stupid.

[@jbdbean242]

@Roobidoobie Considering how many have lost their jobs or have been penalized dearly for simply using that word, she is not at all being stupid. Women are disproportionately treated in that manner as well, though for a variety of reasons. The construct is indeed stupid, but she is powerless to change it and must survive in it.

[@dutch1999]

Understanding the racial differences doesn't inform you with certainty about the individual but it does allow you to assign a relative probability of what you are dealing with.

[@junoguten]

^This. Stats about what you're likely to run into should be compared with stats about what they're likely to claim.

[@cathoderay305]

True, it's like the confidence you have in starting your car every morning. It works 99+% of the time, but occasionally some critical part will reach the end of its life or break due to any number of possible factors.

[@YoungMommy14]

Don't expect that 'relative probability' to remain consistent, though. There's nothing static about this. As time goes on we expect the statistics to change. Also... if you're looking for a person to complete specific tasks, I would advise against using IQ as your sole deciding metric. IQ, like you said can provide us a rough idea of what we're dealing with in terms of cognitive capacity, but remember that there isn't a direct correlation between IQ and ability to complete ANY task. And, for corroboration purposes, I'd like to take the opportunity to present Exhibit A... William J. Sidis. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Mr. Sidis. If not, here's some information. William James Sidis was born on April, 1, l898. Sidis had the highest IQ ever recorded. It was estimated to be between 210 and 260. Sidis (as you almost certainly guessed) was a 'Child Prodigy'. He did many very impressive things at a very young age. He was accepted into Harvard at age 9. He didn't formally begin until age 11, as the faculty deemed 9 to be 'too young'. After graduating he did teaching and wrote a few books. One of those books (I can't remember the title) received considerable acclaim in tge Scientific Community. And then... He just sort of disappeared. Like many incredibly bright people, Sidis was very eccentric. He had essentially no social skills and actually preferred to be completely alone. Many years later, Sidis 'reappeared' when he was arrested for leading some sort of political Protest (I think he was a Communist). Anyway... They put him in an 'Insane Asylum' for a while after that. Upon his release, he basically lived the life ofa 'recluse'. He spent almost all of his time alone and worked very menial jobs here and there. And then In 1944 he died. So... there you have it. The man with the highest IQ ever recorded, and he really didn't accomplish a hell of a lot in his life. So... keep that in mind. IQ can give you a vague idea of the person's intelligence, but it tells you nothing about the person's personality. Imagine if you hired Sidis to work for you, strictly based on his unbelievably high IQ. It would be a disaster. He wouldn't be an asset. He'd be a liability. He'd cost you money rather than bring in money, and you'd almost certainly have to fire him. So... just little something for you to consider.

[@dutch1999]

@@YoungMommy14 I wouldn't say it's static but on the time scales relevant to our lifetimes it may as well be treated as such. The genetic potential for intelligence of the native African population isn't going to rival that of native Europeans any time soon. IQ as you point out isn't a guarantee for certain levels of achievement but it does open the door to possibilities that otherwise wouldn't be. Someone with a high IQ may be a brain surgeon or a bum but you'll never see a retard becoming a brain surgeon. The potential simply isn't there.

[@wasdiggaaaa]

Yes, most likely you are dealing with racists.

[@gnagyusa]

The sad part is that it's most likely *the lack of appreciation for intelligence* in certain groups that is preventing the selecting for those genes. If a group values intelligence, intelligent people will be more likely to find a mate and pass down those genes. If they value other traits more, intelligence won't be selected for. It's a vicious circle. Of course, in-breeding, marrying first cousins etc. in some cultures, is not helping, either.

[@pfhrmb]

Inbreeding not helping is an understatement. Over 50% of marriages in some Arab countries between first or 2nd cousins. Been that way for 100s of years. That's gonna affect mental cognition

[@Officialbarz]

@@pfhrmb also it was big in Europe and other countries

[@ConnorChambers-x7u]

@@Officialbarz Nowhere near as widespread

[@pfhrmb]

@@Officialbarz "was" yea like in medieval times

[@jbdbean242]

Interesting point/question. Would you think that is self-perpetuating at a certain critical level, whereas above that level tends to value intelligence more and to a degree that increases selection for that trait over time, and the opposite occurring below that level? The bell curve disputes that, but that is in toto. Does IQ distribution within separate specified groups look the same? Is that not entirely unrelated to functioning group studies which show that removal of even a few high (violent type) aggressors in a group completely changes the cohesiveness, functionality and subsequent progression of that entire group? Could that be a factor in providing a supportive environment for valuing and developing intellect? On a grander scale, considering studies that show that the Mother's level of intelligence has a greater influence on children for both intelligence and intellectual development than the Father's, is the common tendency among males across most groups to value weakness, meekness and/or surface attributes of females over their intelligence a selection factor, and to what degree? A tall friend once lamented his shorter kids, as he so valued being tall (despite some childhood bullying for it). He half-joked that he blamed his rather short wife for it, but did not consider his long held attraction for small "cute" women in the equation.

[@spiralsone]

This is the most important conversation we can possibly have and yet it is considered beyond the pale.

[@jibrilmohamed9422]

What’s your iq?

[@spiralsone]

@@jibrilmohamed9422 around 125

[@eleveneleven572]

Understanding IQ differences is important in understanding relative success of different racial groups as is cultural and behavioural attitudes to education, social behaviour and work ethic. Only then can we understand the difference, adjust for those factors that can be adjusted and accept those we cannot and adapt education, career options to get the best out of all groups.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

How come no *B* people ever were intelligent enough to win a Nobel Prize for physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine? Since 1901 there have been over *600* Nobel prizes given out and not one of them ever won one for the above categories. Think about that.

[@NanakiRowan]

You literally just outed yourself as a black person.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

@@NanakiRowan Just curious- have you ever once made an intelligent post anywhere? I would like to read it if you have.

[@yankazman3528]

So hard for some people to admit obviously true facts. Even Murray knew long in advanced it would be a controversial subject. "Outside of the scientific community, i don't think most people are ready to accept those facts. If i could vote to have the results of the past 40 years of scientific study on the subject of race and IQ hidden from the public, i would. In the wrong hands, it could do a lot of damage and we know how dangerous this road can be. "

[@davidsolomon8203]

This is a brave venture, honest and thought-provoking!

[@humanOctupus]

I disagree. If the point is to treat everybody as individuals then what practical purpose is an IQ test amongst populations?

[@MovieMaker2100]

@@humanOctupus So we can at least attempt to remedy the gaps.

[@bunderbah]

@@humanOctupus If we know there is IQ gap between different groups, we will not blame it on "systemic racism" when certain groups are underrepresented in certain positions.

[@petrosE75]

Only 40 years ago, it was general knowledge. It's still unspoken knowledge in South Africa. Any lefty reading this, prove me wrong.

[@meddlingmage23]

@Hassan Eskirjeh you don't see me complaining about nba. How is it fair that they don't need to be diverse?

[@darrenstettner5381]

There are factors beyond IQ that also affect outcomes. Things like tenacity, ambition, curiosity, fear, greed, etc are also measurably different between different types of people.

[@cabindweller8454]

When your fruit is sour, cut down all the trees that grow it. That's the liberal method of dealing with ugly truth.

[@syolyah4356]

Long overdue!

[@niccotine9867]

No its not

[@cabindweller8454]

@Bloopy Bloop It is much more specific to them. One reference point is The Death of Stalin movie I just saw. Today's liberals would flunk a history test more than conservatives. Erasing history is a contest to liberals.

[@lif3andthings763]

Cabin Dweller I honestly doubt that. Some conservatives still think that the Civil war was not about slavery lol.

[@cabindweller8454]

@@lif3andthings763 So tell me about Stalin.

[@boomboomboom9297]

We all know. We just don't wanna say it to hurt blacks feelings.

[@Olivia-W]

I love the background. The black is gloriously good for battery on my AMOLED screen, because I'm _not_ paying YT subscription just to turn off my screen when listening.

[@MarkLandrebe-ef5yd]

If one has an IQ test and it asks: 2,4,8,16 what is the next number? OR It shows a square, a triangle, a circle, a pentagon - which does not belong in this group? Questions like this are unbiased.

[@johnharrison6745]

2, 4, 8, and 16 are insufficiently diverse [they're all positive, whole, even numbers]; and, asking which shape 'doesn't *BELONG IN* ' that group is EXCLUSIONARY! Those questions are HATEFUL, DIVISIVE, and TRIGGERING; which is WHY Africans CAN'T ANSWER them "correctly", You Bigot!!!!! 😉😉

[@FlagWaverFlagBearer]

You'd need to speak English to understand the question. You'd also need to be able to count in Latin numerals

[@julianterris]

What we desperately need to do as a civilization is to evaluate all individuals on their merits/abilities regardless of race/gender/age/socio-economic background. Only then can opportunities be offered truly equally. What this information gives all of us is the understanding that there are extreme variances in intellect within each and every racial group -and that fact in itself should be celebrated -liberating us (as it does) from the collective guilt we've been obliged to feel about "unsuccessful" people.

[@cathoderay305]

We were required to take the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery when I was in high school (decades ago). I don't know if this practice is still required, but it was a reasonably good indicator of general intelligence. Politically, I doubt that general intelligence testing would fly in the United States as a federal program. Teacher's unions would oppose it because it would identify their deficiencies in educating children and their failures in comparison to charter schools and home-schooling. Politicians would oppose it because they are beholden to said unions and because they prefer an ignorant electorate.

[@fishinfool3795]

@@cathoderay305 Bingo.

[@terencefield3204]

Crap

[@compytv8636]

​@@cathoderay305You're missing the point

[@cathoderay305]

@@compytv8636 How do you evaluate the potential of an individual without developing a standard for comparison? Not everyone is capable and if you've read "The Bell Curve" objectively you'd realize that (and also note that nutrition can have a significant impact on IQ, quite apart from general health).

[@george45620]

The reason why some academics were “lying” is bc through envisioning countless negative hypothesis’s accepting this literature as fact could play out in our society.. they figure it is best to treat it as if it doesn’t matter or as pseudoscience as a proactive measure to prevent a major shift in the equilibrium of society, which could have extremely negative consequences

[@metacomet2066]

I can't tell you how satisfying it was to hear "shibboleth" being used correctly in a sentence.

[@shannonhooper7945]

This was awful. First he says that his agenda in controlling for race was to show that social policy was doing a disservice to black people because (implicit in his reasoning) they simply don’t have the intelligence to keep up with other races. If he’d been trying to show that there was no difference in intelligence between races then showed the opposite, I’d be much less inclined to doubt the integrity of his research. Here are the major issues with what he said in the video: 1. He has an agenda when conducting his research which is questionable for so many reasons 2. He never stated what even the ballpark estimate was for how much intelligence is determined by nature and how much by nurture, nor does it sound like anyone really even knows 3. Correlation does not equal causation. I shouldn’t even have to say that. He controlled for one possible factor then declared that one possible factor to be the cause of the variation 4. He never stated how many environmental factors are known to affect intelligence or how many of those factors he controlled for. It appears that he controlled for no environmental factors at all. So, we know that people who take intelligence tests and know they’re taking an intelligence test tend to score worse than if they don’t know they’re being tested for intelligence. Was that controlled for? We know that poor nutrition negatively affects intelligence as does exposure to toxins, pollution, medication, recreational drugs, and lack of sleep and that these factors can affect intelligence both in the environment of the mother as well as the child. Did he attempt to control for any of these things? The answer appears to be no. 5. Which of the environmental effects can be mitigated and is permanent amelioration possible? Which of the environmental effects are passed along to offspring and can those be mitigated? 6. He appears to have no purpose other than to further his own hypothesis that black people simply aren’t as smart as other people and that the reason for that is because they’re black. But he never actually showed that. Why not focus on ways to mitigate environmental factors that can negatively impact intelligence so that social policy can be constructed to eliminate those factors where possible and mitigate them when they can’t be eliminated? That would have a much more positive effect upon society than this pointlessness. 7. People who aren’t black assume that a black persons is inferior with or without affirmative action. It makes no difference. He has basically no commonality with black Americans with which to align himself. In other words, he has no idea what it’s like to actually be in any of the situations he deduced would be so horrible for black people. 8. What was the sample population? I’ve never taken an IQ test nor do I know anyone who has. Were these US military personnel? Were there any non-Americans included in the study? What were the demographics for each race? Does he even know? The only thing this shows is that he doesn’t know much about intelligence but he’s happy to jump to a conclusion which suits his politics. Hopefully someone else will come along soon and do much better. It appears one could hardly do worse.

[@123lowp]

Your desire for equality is a strong moral instinct and it is leading your reasoning.

[@昊-w4f]

What a waste of time to write a essay based on nothing. Anyone still arguing nature 'or' nurture is either a dumbass or coward avoiding the huge amountof research data out there..

[@johnc.8298]

The "predictive validity of IQ tests" (4:00-5:00 min) is of itself strong empirical evidence of the concept of IQ differentiation among individuals. Rational thinking people must realistically ask themselves "why wouldn't there be differences in IQ considering the differences in height, body type, skin tone, hair color, and other obvious differences among people"? Why should inherent intelligence level be any different? We were all in various grades throughout our school years. We all know our classmates who were at the "top of the class" and those who were at the "bottom". Why be surprised or indignant. It doesn't make one person more or less human than another, it merely means IQ is just one more metric of individual differences among people similar to the metric of "weight, height, etc." Some people are "vertically challenged" others are on the NBA. Some people have the capacity to manage large international companies, others have a difficult time balancing their own check book. It is what it is. Dismissal of reality is not excusable regardless of your motives.

[@johnc.8298]

@@Ljosi Hi Ljosi. If a new wave of eugenics was likely then I would have to concur with your concern. Things would have to become very desperate as in the world devastation you mentioned above. There would be a large number of others carrying deleterious mutations such as cystic fibrosis, Down's syndrome, and other congenital "diseases" that would be sterilized before they would start working their way up the I.Q. chain. We do not permit any "eugenics" activities whatsoever so I think your concern over prohibiting those at the lower end of the I.Q. scale from procreating is unlikely unless as you describe, as a necessity of sheer survival. By the time the world gets to this point of near destruction, nothing will save us. Space colonization is an interesting end world scenario tho'.

[@johnc.8298]

@@Ljosi What you write may be true, but there's not enough positions for every designer human to be part of the ruling elite and these with the high I.Q.'s won't be willing to do the necessary "mundane" tasks which are below him/her. There will still be the age old power struggles as the "bright ones" fight each other for power. Extinction of those who are physically fit but not members of Mensa may be more important for the collective survival than masses of Mensa elite. I don't think it would be wise to prohibit procreation by any I.Q. group. Each may be necessary and have their own niche in a fully functioning organic hierarchy. This scenario reminds me of Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" in which they deliberately designed "epsilons" to do menial tasks, "Beta's" for other niches, etc.

[@Ljosi]

@@johnc.8298 obviously a certain number of lower IQ people that are selected for obedient behaviour would be kept for menial tasks

[@larryscott2548]

Pound for pound, I can prove that my family has been physically stronger than most people. I'm also descended from Stone masons and quarrymen. The trade its self weeds out the weak and skews towards the strong. AS these people lived in groups breeding would lead towards physically strong, agile people. That sounds to me like selective breeding.

[@paullangford8179]

@erik r East Africans, as in Kenya and Somalia had a very strong selection for fast, long distance running. To get a wife, a young man would need to have a lot of cattle. This was often (possibly usually) done by means of stealing cattle. If you were too slow, you were dead! Dead people don't breed, so only the fast ones were successful.

[@smaakjeks]

Humans are one biological race. There are variations, but they do not conform with the socially identifiable races.

[@smaakjeks]

@Bart Roberts Murray: there's a genetic difference in IQ between races. If biological races don't exist in humans, there can't be a genetic difference between them in IQ.

[@wilmer89]

@@smaakjeks label it whatever you want, populations still exist

[@smaakjeks]

@@wilmer89 Yeah, humans exist in populations. Good job, William.

[@freddyt55555]

Murray completely dodged the question of "why study the link between race and IQ?" that Harris posed to him. He talked a lot after the question was asked, but he said a whole lot of nothing.

[@micahjohnsonboxing6409]

In his book he says why, to deny government assistance to low IQ people so they won't have more kids. It's actually pretty dark since earlier in the book he makes it clear he views low IQ people as Black.

[@humanormachine2936]

@@micahjohnsonboxing6409 Yeah, Murray's views don't add up, and seem heartless to me, and I don't understand why more people listening to these podcasts aren't having this discussion. From the dialogue I've seen on Murray's videos, it seems that most people agree with his policies, and aren't challenging them or engaging in any sort of in depth discussions about them. It's really bizarre and disturbing. You're not going to stop low IQ people from having kids just by denying them government assistance. All you're going to do is hurt the innocent children.

[@MilanElan]

@@humanormachine2936 no, one must design policy that takes human stupidity into account. So, for a low IQ person who needs welfare, it should be provided. It should stop at one child and be made clear to the recipient they will lose it automatically if they get pregnant. China had a one child policy, it should be that way for welfare recipients or seriously downgraded for a 2nd child.

[@heldinahtmlhell]

For the same reason we study the link between race and poverty, race and discrimination, race and oppression, race and any negative outcome for black people? He's answered that question before. And it's obvious and self-evident, in America, where race is an obsession. Additionally, he didn't specifically set out to study the link between race and IQ, it's a small chapter in a voluminous book about IQ.

[@freddyt55555]

@@heldinahtmlhell Yes, we study those in the context of SOCIAL and SOCIETAL outcomes. Yes, we humans are racist, but more important to study is how culture affects those outcomes, and while they can be closely tied to human phenotype because, again, people are racist and people with like phenotypes develop their own culture, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with biology. You can stick a white kid in the hood, and he'll become a hood rat like person of ANY skin color.

[@Cinnovations]

Everyone seems to be obsessing over the book without even being aware there are sound, comprehensive refutations of the book available.

[@Bjrosiy]

Provide one

[@Cinnovations]

@ sure, my curiously Algerian Russian friend with no content. “The Mismeasure of Man” by Steven Jay Gould. Race and IQ are already highly flawed or nuanced terms, especially when considered against one another. Beyond that book, there are at least a handful of books on genetics that quash any link between race and IQ. Ignorant people don’t understand Epigentics, heritability, genetic variation, drift, Flynn Effect, reification, sociology, a whole slew of psychology concepts, and how nurture tends to influence a person more than genetics in many cases.

[@Bridge2110]

@@Cinnovations If you suggest Gould's work, I suggest 2 videos which you can find on youtube called "MODERN HERESY RE-UPLOAD: Stephen Jay Gould is WRONG About the G factor" and "MODERN HERESY RE-UPLOAD: Stephen Jay Gould is WRONG About The Bell Curve". These provide sound, comprehensive refutations of Gould's points against the claims that TBC makes. Basically, Gould gets a lot wrong, is very disingenuous, and just flat out lies too.

[@countofst.germain6417]

​​​​@@Cinnovations they meant provide an argument and why he's wrong? Don't just list books and buzzwords without connecting them to anything, of course many people think they can refute it. Do you honestly think that person didn't think people had tried to refute it?

[@Cinnovations]

@countofst.germain6417 if you actually read the books, you’d know that citing them is enough.

[@crossroads670]

Daniel Freedman showed that babies have different temperaments by race, even at birth.

[@antiantidisestablishmentar3921]

I'm from Pakistan and I'm race realist. However one race is more intelligent than the other one is just because of shear luck, as a result of coincidentally evolution. However I would like to actively tweak evolution in our favour in my country in ethical ways, curbing rampant inbreeding etc,

[@Seekthetruth3000]

A lot of inbreeding in Pakistan, right?

[@antiantidisestablishmentar3921]

@@Seekthetruth3000 yup

[@Rollpepper]

I read a book that argued that the rules in Islam often work against intelligence, but favor ethnocentrism. So cousin marriage means everyone is more closely related, but less intelligent, circumcision is traumatic, but works as an initiation ritual, less education for women makes them more likely to have children, etc. If Pakistan were to jump higher in IQ it would likely go down in ethnocentrism as it is inversely correlated. You’re right that intelligence is from luck in a sense. For most it meant very harsh conditions of Darwinian selection due to cold and food scarcity that eventually selected for intelligence. England had a child mortality rate of over 40% for a time. When they greatly reduced that rate, they conquered the world due to high intelligence and high numbers.

[@antiantidisestablishmentar3921]

@@Rollpepper agreed

[@siulapwa]

The only thing that disappoints me about this is that some of my fellow blacks get offended by this when instead they should be laughing it off, this is merely propaganda, even if it were true we don't care

[@shakey3306]

Until you start getting genocided

[@donaldpresley4084]

For five hundred years whites have been helping sub Saharan Africans. The simple fact that we still feed them is mirrored in the welfare state in the west providing for these once african peoples. That settles the discussion.

[@grimawormtongue1949]

15:01 He says that in order to claim that 100% of the variance in IQ is attributable to environment, given that blacks have IQ scores around 1.5 SD lower than the mean, then the average black would have to occupy an environment that was in some respect crucial to the development of the intellect, which is 1.5 standard deviation away from the mean. But seeing blacks typically do not differ from whites by as much as 1.5 SD in terms of income, occupational environment...etc, then we can conclude that environment isn't 100% determinate. This particular point is poorly argued. He does caveat his remarks by saying that some variables crucial to intellectual development aren't measurable, okay. But occupation or income are not themselves the kinds of things that will cause difference in IQ. Why not suppose that for each SD in income or occupational environment, there is a more-than-commensurate difference in, say, exposure to complex vocabulary and grammatical structures, or exposure to logical or mathematical principles, or something else which is in actuality more germane to the determination of intelligence.

[@grimawormtongue1949]

What I'm saying is that statistically controlling for those variables will not ensure statistical control of the germane variables, which are unfortunately not measurable.

[@mickeydrago9401]

@@grimawormtongue1949 Oh it's measurable all right... This is just a technique of obfuscation and avoidance, a form of lying that attempts to cover up biological determinism and racial inferiority on a genetic level

[@obedassuman9199]

I do not care what so called the iq preachers are talking about. I am from African, I came to USA with $100 in my pocket. I got a degree, two masters, one graduate certificate, lean six sigma green belt and black belt and now I am doing two PhD in two different school. Is up to them to go around and think about Africans

[@JonnyWisdom]

34:00 - I have a foundation, Bachelors and Masters degrees in Engineering. I can safely say I was the DUMBEST kid in the class. I had to work approx 3-5 times harder than my colleagues, when people went to bed I carried on studying. Each academic year I barely scraped through. It took pure grit and determination, probably fueled by childhood insecurities. At one point when completing my Masters I started to loose hair. I now run my own software company. I moulded my brain into thinking analytically. I would strongly advise not listening to the Charles Murray (on this point) - I have come across professors like him who bet against me. Yes geniuses are born, but obsession can lead to genius. The problem is most people don't know their limits, they'd rather take the easy route and use their IQ as an excuse for not pushing through, essentially becoming their score. People don't realize how much they're leaving on the table. Push yourself to your brink, then you're genius will be revealed.

[@billykersh7061]

James Horton, I agree with your comment. I don’t think Murray is suggesting anything other than macro differences in race and average IQ. His findings are both proven and demonstrable. Of course there are exceptions. There is no substitute for diligence and hard work.

[@erikshure360]

There is no way this conversation could be had today. I remember hearing Sam talk about this years ago -- thinking that by now people will be more accepting of the facts. Boy, was I wrong. People are far more intolerant and contemptuous nowadays. Sad.

[@tannededbighead19]

This sort of research has been going on for decades, that hasn't changed. We know that differences in average IQ score exist between races; there is no controversy around that. What people disagree with are the causes for the differences. And it's difficult to tease apart those exact differences to any significant degree of confidence with any sort of humane psychometric testing regime, or without a much deeper understanding of how differences in genetics can translate into observed differences.

[@erikshure360]

@@kobby7135 Why do you think a conversation about race and intelligence is so vile? Do you think a conversion about race and height is equally as bad?

[@ilikepancakes2368]

@@erikshure360 There’s nothing wrong about disclosing such info but problem is that we realize some people will get the wrong idea and use the data as a way to justify discrimination and racial profiling.

[@wasdiggaaaa]

@@erikshure360 While it is not equally as bad, it is equally nonsensical, because there are no biological races in humans. Facts, look it up.

[@wasdiggaaaa]

@@basilmagnanimous7011 what a schmock.

[@charliecatesby3346]

The greatest difference is between sub-saharan Africans and the rest. This makes perfect sense as they're the least closely related to all other groups. Why would anyone think they would co-evolve in such a drastically different environment.

[@firstandforever8294]

To quote a Neuroscientist and Primatologist by the name Robert Sapolsky.. “How’s this for fascinating: Heritability of various aspects” of cognitive development is very high (e.g., around 70 percent for IQ) in kids from high-socioeconomic status (SES) families but is only around 10 percent in low-SES kids. Thus, higher SES allows the full range of genetic influences on cognition to flourish, whereas lower-SES settings restrict them. In other words, genes are nearly irrelevant to cognitive development if you’re growing up in awful poverty-poverty’s adverse effects trump the genetics.fn24 Similarly, heritability of alcohol use is lower among religious than nonreligious subjects-i.e., your genes don’t matter much if you’re in a religious environment that condemns drinking. Domains like these showcase the potential power of classical behavior genetics.”

[@Bridge2110]

That finding actually doesn't replicate. The heritability is equal across all SES groups. This video goes over the hack who hypothesized this originally, and more recent findings: www.bitchute.com/video/WPV6Hz9iwQo/

[@bsim4431]

I've come to the conclusion that people with IQs under 120 aren't capable of discussing this topic rationally.

[@Philip-b9r]

Jacob L mine is* you prick*

[@WaterMan-ss6eb]

In actuality the number is 90

[@anonygent]

It's more like no one on the left is capable of discussing this rationally, no matter what their IQ is.

[@bsim4431]

@@anonygent Sam Harris is politically left

[@crossroads670]

Exactly.

[@charity4613]

Stop making this issue about politics. It’s not about politics, it’s about objective truth. There’s either a trend, or there’s not.

[@lucasgroves137]

You have intellectual discussions like this. Then you have _man, woman, person, camera, tv._

[@adammwalch]

Sociological norms have become literal bullying

[@shin-ishikiri-no]

As a "black" person (granted, not pureblood), I'm all for the total removal of affirmative action, both in terms of race and gender. Based on life experience, I'm not worried about the results or consequences of this, as I've almost always been the token with maybe 1 or 2 others. The pattern is glaringly obvious. For the "Big 3" racial categories, *average* intelligence goes like this: NorthEast Asians > Western Europeans > West/Central Africans (East Africans are effectively a different race, more similar to whites and/or Arabs)... Ashkenazi Jews score higher, but honestly they have been outside of my daily life experience. I rarely meet Jews anywhere, or perhaps I don't recognize them? In any case, temperament observation is a big part of how I came to agree with the premise of the Charles Murray's book. I've seen behavior patterns play out consistently across these broad groups, for better or worse. The fact that most of my closer friends growing up weren't black had nothing to do with self hate, it had more to do with likeness of mind. I didn't enjoy fighting for fun... Many black kids did. Virtually all Asian kids I knew couldn't imagine hitting another person. Whites were always somewhere in the middle with some being dangerous, others not so much. I've befriended (and even dated) what I like to call "benign racists" because at the end of the day, you can't easily maintain hate for someone who agrees with you and shares the majority of your values. Not rationally at least. Having said that, I've found that East Asians in general are a lot more similar to me, temperamentally. I'm a lot less focused on being power hungry (markedly Western European mental profile) or irrationally confrontational (markedly West African mental profile). Asians are observant and calm, but even they have their problems - i.e. proneness to conform at all costs (markedly East Asian mental profile). At the end of the day we are all on the spectrum. Go where you fit in and don't force it. I would HATE to be forced to live in the "hood" whereas there's probably an Asian kid somewhere out there who hates academics, and wants nothing more than to steal your girlfriend, rap about money and street fight.

[@jameseldridge3445]

I'm black and had similar life experiences. Its just hard finding people in modern society that share a logical/rational view of the world instead of emotional.

[@blaccpanther8715]

Am I correct in saying that IQ is an amalgamation of parameters where abstract reasoning receives the highest weighting? if so i would argue that your IQ is less of an issue in a society with so much available information. My IQ tests for instant puts me at 110 which is in the average range yet I have still become a competent structural engineer based off pure conscientiousness and acquired knowledge, and that's because I use existing knowledge, design codes and reference material. Never ever did I tap into my abstract reasoning to think out an entire bridge design from first principles for instance.

[@shannondove96]

Anesu C Good point

[@HAL-nt6vy]

In my experience as an R&D Chemical Engineer, surprisingly little of the math and theory I learned in graduate school was actually used on the job. Use common sense, work hard, be persistent, ask questions of other more experienced engineers, keep reading and studying. I would largely agree with you on availability of information, but it's good to keep a lot of that in memory--at least the general principles.

[@dayonmage3946]

That's the smartest most reasonable observation I've ever seen typed by Negro hands, and presumably from your own original thoughts. It's a fine comment. I do think blacks have (racial based) natural endowments, and your race seems to excell in kinesthetic intuition, where by comparison, many Whites have forgotten grace and cognitive strength.

[@jessmc90]

As a Hispanic woman, I see no issue in acknowledging that some races are more intelligent than others. Every race should raise their children to achieve excellence in their own ways. Not everyone can be a rocket scientist and that’s okay! Just be exceptional in your own life and you’ll be fine.

[@ross23233]

Hispanic is not a race.

[@TheJustina102085]

3 years later, I still respect Sam Harris for having a conversation with Murray knowing it would cause the Woke Mob to come after him for it..

[@GeoffreyPicketts]

Not every criticism can be boiled down to a 'woke' mob. This is one of those hills that isn't worth dying on. Should it not simply be Individuals and IQ? Why bother going into racial stuff? There's plenty of bright and dumb people across any population group, as is pointed out. So why even flirt with racial determinism? Harris is among my favorite public intellectuals but he lost me on this rabbit hole to nowhere.

[@milo.ibrado]

After listening to this, I realized that Charles Murray's research was motivated by the desire to remove the biases that gave rise to social policies such as affirmative action, which he hypothesized to do more harm than good for the people they are meant to help. The only way to prove his theory was to use scientific data, which is inherently unbiased. In the end, he succeeded in producing an unbiased narrative about individual IQ and how it relates to race. But his motives were judged poorly by people who were motivated by their own political and cultural agenda. It's a shame that even his fellow researchers could not rise above their biases so that the data can speak for itself.

[@lif3andthings763]

The man he cites 20 times Richard Lynn compiled faulty research on the IQs of Africans and is a Neonazi. Definitely unbiased.

[@milo.ibrado]

@@lif3andthings763 well, if the research is faulty then the research is faulty. But does it prove bias? Not necessarily. If Lynn were a white supremacist as most people claim, his research wouldn't point to east asians as being the group with the highest IQ. If the issue is faulty research then the solution is to improve it, not to cancel it.

[@lif3andthings763]

Milo Ibrado What does IQ mean to you?

[@scottbarr2889]

Its funny how people who always bemoan the "soft' nature of social science are somehow convinced of it's hardness when it happens to align with their own political and social ideology.

[@dominikrocco4145]

@@lif3andthings763 Really, you think that Richland Lynn is a neonazi. What tenets of the Nazi party does he align with?

[@professionalmemeenthusiast2117]

I think the qualifier that is incredibly important here is that while populations vary by IQ, there aren't distinct races that don't overlap with each other, and that there is massively more variance within a group than between groups.

[@snippletrap]

While there aren't distinct sets of no overlap, there are certainly distinct clusters. With DNA we can predict race to a high degree of accuracy.

[@professionalmemeenthusiast2117]

@@snippletrap If you want to say there are thousands of races then sure. I don't think this is what most people mean by race.

[@snippletrap]

@@professionalmemeenthusiast2117 If you run k-means with small k, then the clusters align with common notions of race. You don't need thousands of clusters to account for most of the variance of the data.

[@floralkami2860]

@@snippletrap So Race has been scientifically defined then? I was under the impression that Race was a new concept that had no real scientific basis.

[@snippletrap]

@@floralkami2860 It depends on the definition. If you mean something like, "Are there primitive racial types? Is there a single gene that encodes your race?" Then the answer is no. But if the question is, "Are there measurable biological differences -- in genotype and phenotype -- that correlate with popular racial categories?", then the answer is yes. Races are to humans as breeds are to dogs.

[@OldBillOverHill]

I Googled Charles Murray and the first hit was the SPLC labeling him a racist.

[@Ron239]

An excellent conversation. Bravo Mr. Murray for having the guts to speak the truth. Eagerly awaiting the June 15, 2021 release of Charles Murray's new book, "Facing Reality: Two Truths About Race in America."

[@tottenhamhotspurish]

Nigerian American’s and Nigerian British are two of the biggest earners of any ethnic group in those two states.

[@ercolearmani6186]

@@tottenhamhotspurish Could that be because most of the nigerians who are successful in different countries had to be smart as a requirement to even step foot outside of Nigeria?

[@jlrinc1420]

@@ercolearmani6186 Or it could be because a cognitive test can never give an accurate result when given to a population fundamentally different than the people the test was normed on.

[@rajasmasala]

On the face of it Murray must be a retard to frame things and make statements in the way he does. It assumes an insanity as profound as "drag queens are groomers". Why? What is his goal? You surely know and are a cognizant participant in this weaponization of a professional field (basically if you need an analogy for understanding Murray think Jordan Peterson of lobsterfucking fame for psychology). Sam Harris is also a complete clown and Chris Hitchens would surely be shitting all over that dude if he was still alive. Fucking Taliban vanguard troops.

[@nefaristo]

​@@jlrinc1420I understand that for black Americans iq is an even better predictor of economic success than for Americans in general.

[@ImInfluence]

This was an awesome conversation with open minds.

[@erickelly4107]

The issues with “IQ” are multifaceted and not only limited to “how” but even if there’s actually a viable method to accurately “measure” intelligence to begin with. Being able to accurately obtain results that portray one’s full intellectual potential given that there are so many variables involved is another issue. The way “IQ” is generally measured currently is not optimal in my opinion nor does it paint an accurate picture of the general populations full potential when it comes to “intellectual ability”. For one, not all people process and interpret data the same way -for which much of this could simply come down to “exposure” and who is to say one way is “better” than another’s? This all very likely simply “depends” on again, multiple variables such as the particular culture, societal circumstances, etc. Just because one way may lead to a superior test score doesn’t necessarily mean “superior intelligence”. The issue of “exposure” is one that is hard to overstate. One can have the potential to score extremely high on an “IQ” test and yet score low and or nowhere near their actual “potential” simply due to lack of “exposure”. This lack of exposure can and does range for example from individual’s living in places in the World such as sub Sub Saharan Africa to varying degrees not so extreme but thus will certainly have an impact on the test takers “IQ” score. For these reasons and others such as lack of interest, motivation, self-esteem, mental / physical health and so on, I do not think we have an accurate measure of the general populations “IQ”. Using myself as an example to speak to the issue of “exposure” (Long story mostly encompassing ages 0-13 ..) and it’s very real potential impact on “IQ” saw improvements in test scores per test of +20, +20, +15. This positive increase took place over course of roughly 20 years and I’m certain I’m not somehow an “anomaly” in this regard. With that said I'm NOT suggesting that "IQ" is somehow not correlated with positive outcomes when it comes to success in academics and life in general only that there are profound fundamental flaws in regards to assigning an "IQ score" to people in general. A truly accurate "IQ Score" isn't something that can be so easily attained as if measuring the size of your foot or how long it takes one to run the distance of a mile and so on. This in a nutshell is the ELEPHANT in the room so to say that is IGNORED when people discuss this topic. I think those whom tend to promote "IQ" so much are generally people whose EGO is deeply linked to their IQ Score, so any notion of this concept being undermined in anyway shape or form is deeply offensive. My advice for what it's worth is that if you have children expose them to knowledge / culture of the World and how things work as much as possible. Otherwise they'll likely be playing "catch up" for a long time and never realize their full potential before it's too late.

[@cosmossci4883]

As stated in the video there were IQ tests given that had different cultures accounted for. I think you'd be extremely hard pressed to argue that racial IQ gaps on test scores involving things like simple pattern recognition boils down to mere cultural differences. Moreover, if we are going to argue that IQ tests aren't a good predictor of intelligence (which they are) then we can look at it from a practical standpoint. Look at various racial groups and cultural groups and their general success and achievements. Is it mere coincidence that the racial IQ gap of whites and blacks is also seen in practice through sub-Saharan Africa and their lack of historical significance or achievement when compared to Europe's?

[@erickelly4107]

@@cosmossci4883 It would appear you missed the main points of my statement - “attaining ACCURATE results” Also, if you’ve ever taken an IQ test there’s quite a bit more than just “simple pattern recognition”. Anyway maybe try reading what I stated again..I’m giving you the benefit of doubt before I write it off as simply “ego”. Intuition is the highest form of “intelligence” which is pretty much impossible to measure. Intuition is what for example a Grandmaster Chess player uses. Intuition is surely in part “inherited” but can be farther developed with practice.

[@gregjones2217]

I've known people of all races. You can name your group and I know some who couldn't outsmart a hammer. On the other hand, some of each group were brilliant. It is the individual and their desire to advance that makes the difference.

[@bc1830fam]

What are the current average IQs & SDs for racial groups in the USA? Do you have a source? Last I heard, there are 1.1 standard deviations between...

those white nationalists love those Asian women

[@corneliusdelasoto3955]

@@alfie2113 lol

[@useodyseeorbitchute9450]

It's a plot twist - people on far right consider Askenazi Jews as superior race. :D

[@alzn593]

@@alfie2113 No way bro. White women are the standard of beauty. You know that. You just don't want to admit you couldn't get a white woman. If some white chick says high to you, you'd be willing to lick their toe.

[@alfie2113]

Swimming Goldfish dude I’m white, I’ve been with a few white women but the way they act is disgusting, white women today are so entitled and rude.

[@alzn593]

@@alfie2113 But men from other races are so attracted to white women. They could do anything to date one. I have met a lot of Asian men and Black men that think white women are angels from heaven, although white women just want their money. Anyway, an average white woman has way more privileges than Asian or Hispanic hotties.

[@vazquezb2011]

Asking a scholar why research a topic with clear implications for how education is set up, simply because bigots might misinterpret it is surprising. No book encouraged Nazism more than Darwin's The Origin of the Species. Should the most important book on biology not have been published?

[@malphunk6426]

I think he was trying to clear the air - that the studies were not done in racist motivation, just to find out the truth. It was a redundant question but it puts the listeners at ease.

[@utility432101]

I would say Martin Luther's writings, and U.S.-based 18th/19th century eugenicists, influenced HItler's philosophy more than Darwin's "OOS". That's not to say that many of Luther's views, writings and ultimate influence should be summarily discarded. Nor does it mean that some of the findings of those U.S. eugenicists, were not laboratory-accurate. This is the problem with Left/Marxist-based PC speech codes. They enforce and legitimize untenable and inaccurate cultural absolutes.

[@timmurrowmusic5261]

The noise gate on this is killing me....This is the first time in my life that I felt like silence was screaming at me.

[@maximum2918]

lol i think the insane brickwalling doesnt help either

[@goodkawz]

I’m an old 5’9” Midwestern American male and have always considered myself to be of approximately average height. A few years ago I made my last trip to Disneyland. The considerable crowd there seemed to be made up mostly of people of Asian, Polynesian, and Hispanic ancestry, I came away from that visit with just one overwhelming impression that pretty much overshadowed the rest of the Disneyland experience. I am tall. I might have shrunk a bit with age. But I had never felt so tall. Though I haven’t been growing America is getting shorter. Height-wise I was out there Maybe close to 2 Sigma, on the right sight side of the bell shaped curve. If there was a Mensa or Mesa based on height at Disneyland I might be close to qualifying. The weather up here is actually a bit brisk. But now I’m back in the Midwest among mostly people of predominantly North European stock, and have regressed to something closer to my olde normal. I’m pretty sure that average height is not the only measurable difference among groups of people.

[@christopherpekel6096]

Are we sure that Sam Harris isn't talking to a computer? lol

[@starmorpheus]

Ah yes, the youtube comments. The bedrock of thorough discussions and good-faith discourse. Filled to the brim with neuroscientists, psychologists and academic researchers. Not a single intellectually deficient individual in sight.

[@juanzavala9023]

Lmao

[@Lolerburger]

At 4:27 he says essentially "if you're an employer and you have only 1 datum, you're better off knowing an IQ score than anything else (interview, grades, etc)". Sorry that's absurd. Years of experience in the field is way more relevant. What good is a fast learner versus someone with 5-10 years of experience if I need a project done within a tight timeframe? I need an expert and you're telling me I'm better off hiring someone who knows nothing but can learn fast? Sorry, that is absolutely false.

[@sjatkins]

Very much depends on the field. But I would want more proof of competence in the realm I am hiring for. Given that basic competence proof for the job I would pick the smarter persons generally if I had to choose.

[@Sophie.S..]

Loleburger Agree. You need experience PLUS someone who has good communication skills to motivate employees/contractors to get the work completed on time. I've met many people with extremely high IQ's who have absolutely no idea how to motivate or communicate with people on different levels.

[@j.k.cascade2057]

it seems KZbin removed my 'like' on this presentation re-liked again

[@MarkLandrebe-ef5yd]

Face it, how many black geniuses can you think of?

[@NanakiRowan]

I'm not sure what the point of your fallacy is here. All you are doing is showing us that black people are your equals, and some are smarter than you. Was that your intent?

[@beverlyhurd8556]

How come no blacks ever were intelligent enough to win a Nobel Prize for physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine? Since 1901 there have been over *600* Nobel prizes given out and not _one black ever_ won one for the above categories. That right there says it all.

[@ich-nuta]

Nothing controversial here. Unfortunately, we've witnessed Lawrence Summers "scandal" even in 2005 - this is madness.

[@smaakjeks]

Lots of wrong things, which is what matters in science.

[@viprehearsals3846]

I don’t think I have a very high IQ but I had a great education and great parents. My eagerness to educate myself, improve my debating skills, research and evaluate arguments and learn to gain wisdom is worth more to society than a few IQ points.

[@KaNoMikoProductions]

Now imagine if you had all that, AND a great IQ. (though tbh, I think you probably do have a decent IQ. Get tested, bud.)

[@wilmer89]

You're high in conscientiousness

[@shmokoguwop4819]

Societal measures were adopted to meritocratize existing hierarchies but they revealed that those same hierarchies might be more uncomfortably meritorious than we’d have liked to imagine?

[@pardivuspodcast]

Focusing on IQ differences between races is not important. The fact still stands that a black person can be smarter than an Ashkenazi Jew, and an Ashkenazi Jew can jump higher than a black person. So, we do not want to dissuade an Ashkenazi Jew from going to the NBA or a black person from becoming a lawyer based on average IQ or vertical jumping ability. Unfortunately, I cannot see this data, although factual and objective, being used in a positive manner. I just can't. It'll only result in people feeling a misguide sense of racial loyalty.

[@bboucharde]

Charles Murray = Top Man, hero!

[@SanjinDedic]

I freekin loved being in a class where the majority of people were smarter than me. It happened like twice in my life and I thought if that had been a norm I would have been so much smarter by now and I would have learned a lot more!! But as someone who specialises in gifted education I have also seen kids absolutely traumatised by swapping a class where they are the best for a class where they are below average!

[@adamruben606]

Robotix there is a Jewish proverb that says it is better to be the tail of a lion than the head of the fox. It means exactly what you are saying. You gain more from the being the bottom of of the best than you do from being the top of a worst.

[@chaffeehurlant5821]

Your grammar is very poor.

[@davidval7188]

Adam Ruben. Here we go again by believing one race is superior to another

[@DlcEnergy]

Robotix that reminded me when i was in highschool. i was messin about with mates, i got sent into another classroom, where the kids weren't the best at math, but they were really trying to learn, (must've been the really kind teacher) and she was helping them understand. i finished up the work easy while they're still getting help. being around people who don't mess about and want to learn is probably all it is. the class i and my friends were in at that particular time was just the kind of class you and your mates were able to do what they want in. there's those type of teachers out there who don't threaten students. you'll get the work, you'll choose to do it. but the class can be loud with everyone messing about, some throwing paper planes doin loopty loops in the air. mastering that architecture. lol anyhoo... fun times. but yeah, with maturity, i would've loved to have 100% of that and went to a japanese school. lol i've seen the show where young british teenagers are being taught by some asian woman, to go by her standard, and they just seem so disrespectful, when she's just trying to make them into better people. she makes a comment about them messing about, this one chavy girl makes a fuss. it's just embarrassing.

[@cockoffgewgle4993]

Maybe slightly more intelligent than you. But if they’d all been significantly more intelligent, you’d have likely found it very frustrating.

[@Phil9873]

According to a study in the 2005 Fall edition of The British Journal of Psychology, men's IQs exceed women's by an average of 5 points. The disparity is more pronounced at higher levels, with three men for every woman scoring above 130 IQ and more than five men per woman above 145 IQ.