Racecraft: Barbara Fields & Ta-Nehisi Coates in Conversation

[@miskaarpa3248]

I am currently reading Racecraft. Fields is very insightful. I like the way she deconstructs ideas that we take for granted.

[@hainish2381]

Same here. It's such a wonderful book.

[@LakerChava63]

Loved Dr. Fields excerpts on Ken Burns Civil War. Brilliant woman.

[@ningenJMK]

omg that was her?!

[@Etatdesiege1979]

“We are still fighting the Civil War and it still can be lost”. Truer words have never been spoken.

[@VincentTroia]

visiting barbara fields in 2020 brings me sanity in this moment of heightened conversations on race and class. toure reeds writings brought me here

[@russcastella]

What a great woman. Such intellect and grace is so rare.

[@jongreen5638]

To any that may be interested, Mrs. Fields was on Thaddeus Russell's Unregistered podcast (it's on KZbin) and talked about this event. She was unaware of Mr. Coates before hand. If anyone cares for a clearer understanding of her point of view, it would be a good starting point.

[@PupienusMagnus]

Thanks for this, love Thad’s pattern of thinking and haven’t visited his podcast in probably two years (due to his overload of Patreon and lack of guests that spoke on topics I was interested in).

[@jennyispoop4]

fields energy is of acceptance, coates still wants to argue about the topic, not yet believing peace is possible - an excellent pair for such conversation. Thank you!

[@acgrizzle7530]

what evidence have you seen that makes you think peace is possible?

[@rexkim7750]

There's no words to describe Barbara Fields other than amazing

[@heathers.7975]

Barbara Field, quoting a colleague: "Diversity ...that means you get together a lot of people who look different and think the same."

[@Shandchem]

It is so sad and shameful that so many human beings in history have used the colour of somebody's skin, in the shameful illusion that they are different and should be treated differently, in so many unjust ways. Being treated less fairly, less respectfully, less equal, ignoring their individuality and potential, is so wrong and unacceptable. Well done to such individuals as Barbera Fields and Ta Neshisi Coates in respectively continuing to strive to educate members of the human race, in making it a better, more respectful and fairer world for all. Very inspiring, Thank you!

[@3506Dodge]

Coates' views are irreconcilable with those of Fields. Coates clings to race while Fields invites us to walk away from it. Does Coates realize this?

[@apocalypsepow]

who knows, it's a glaring error in his reasoning

[@visionpersistance]

spot light Actually Professor Fields specifically addresses this beginning at roughly around 1:06. It is actually the whole panoply of “Racecraft” that prevents a clear articulation, much less a discussion of the inequalities centered around class in the U.S.

[@visionpersistance]

spot light I agree with 3506dodge

[@visionpersistance]

I should add, but only on this point and for completely different reasons as I read the rest of his comments in this thread

[@justmyopinion9883]

@spot light Thank you. That was a beautiful explanation.

[@martingoldberg3776]

Terrific, very clarifying on what is so often a muddle. Essential.

[@miskaarpa3248]

" If there's one thing that causes Americans to break out in hives, it's talking about class inequality. We don't have a way to do it. We don't have a language for it." 1:12

[@visionpersistance]

Yes, as will be discernible again this election cycle, in terms of policy

[@Treklosopher]

Yep. Because of 100 years of anti socialist propaganda from rich fucks controlling media.

[@t33nyplaysp0p]

We did. It got destroyed in the 80s after the afl-cio was purged and replaced with idenitarians

[@ogieiyamu5575]

Barbara Fields is not to be played with.

[@TemujinMSM]

Coates is a joke. If only Barbara Fields got half the attention he does.

[@jaybush6111]

Why say negative things about him? The academy is so catty lol.

[@t33nyplaysp0p]

​@jaybush6111 he's literally just a talking head for NYT...notorious for their egalitarian views...cough

[@tnopsclark6179]

I like how Fields looked at the children’s point of view on the country club swimming pool incident. She asked questions that should have been asked of each child BEFORE interacting with their parents. There is a truth that innocence plays a huge factor in how events are viewed and impacts a person (perhaps even for life). Chances are good that the children who were taught about race and racism, responded with that thought in mind immediately before hearing anything about the event. Whereas the children who were not exposed to those premature thoughts didn’t think race had anything to do with the events. Perhaps wealth status came to mind for those children. Or it could be that it was a social invasion or overcrowding. Then again, perhaps until they heard the rhetoric, they didn’t even know what to think was the cause. As an Army brat, traveling to different countries and different parts of America, skin color, racism, and gender doesn’t play as big a factor as safety. The initial actions of people around you teach those children how to respond to people. There is a bigger factor at play and I have yet to hear anyone from any race, culture, religion, or any other factor investigate that as the bigger problem. It is the root of where the problems begin and continue. The pool incident is a great example and opportunity to turn the funnel around and discuss the mere genesis of the issue.

[@tulae]

lmao 29:04 "it's natural for me to see you, and you know, I don't know, I guess, try to perpetrate a wealth gap, or try to pass laws for redlining, that's just natural for me to do it"

[@JogaLuce]

30:19 Fields: These are students you say you hear making a statement like that? Coates: Blog commenters.

[@JogaLuce]

28:47 tc: One of the statements I hear very often, especially having read the book now, I mean it annoyed me before but it really annoys me now having read the book, and this is something that we say - bf: Good. tc: Yeah [laughs]. This is a sort of statement that we make I think in trying to demonstrate a faux-sensitivity. I hope none of your students say this, but I hear it all the time, "Oh, everybody's a little racist." You know. Again, and what's implicit in that is the idea that this is a natu- bf: It's a natural characteristic. tc: - it's a natural thing. 29:04 "It's natural for me to see you and, you know, I don't know, I guess try to perpetrate a wealth gap, or try to pass laws for redlining. That's just natural for me to do." bf: yeah. tc: "You know, I'm just. It's evolution man." But that's sort of what's contained in there, and again I hate to bring you back to this but I just I wonder and I'm asking you this as much as I'm asking myself. How much of that is because it is much easier to think of it as a natural thing than it is to think it as something that a government, a presumably democratic government, actually did. Does that then put the burden on us to actually have to do something about it presumably. bf: But I think it's, human beings do have a way, human beings in human societies do have a way of assuming that nature has made their society. Has decreed the way things are done in the society. It's an easy assumption to make. So, and that's part of what's going on. Now, I don't know what to say to, these are students you say you hear making a statement like that? tc: [feigning contempt] Blog commenters. bf: so yeah. [both laugh] tc: No, they're good people, I'm joking. bf: Yeah, but, I'm asking that because, if I heard students say that I would nail it right away, "Well what do you mean by that? So are you telling me that everybody has done this? If all you're saying is that everybody would do it if they had the chance- ". First of all that's a speculation, but second it's a very different statement.

[@cvs.j]

I found out today that I’m related to her and I’m going to try to meet her

[@Labrador_Fan]

It’s wild how out of his depth Coates is when talking to Fields. They’re in completely different leagues.

[@johnstewart7025]

Understand no race without racism and no racism without racecraft. But what happens to black culture? Does it become like dutch or french culture?

[@t33nyplaysp0p]

Black culture, French culture, white culture...whatever. the culturalist approach is literally out of the post war era of the race scientist's language. They realized that, idk, maybe millions of jews dying because they "naturally are evil/dirty" wasn't so much of a fad anymore, so the language shifted to "it's their culture"

[@t33nyplaysp0p]

As Adolph Reed describes, culture has 2 definitions. 1) acts, practices, arts, etc that diffuse seamlessly through societies. 2) the taxonomizing of people and neighborhoods, which is what your describing. Basically, at the end of the day, it comes down to some mysticism and folk knowledge about why this ethnic group should own an abstract, such as music, and thus be the authentic communitarian on who can do the act or what form of the Act is actually the real act. And since, race isn't real and the markers of it are always changing then this makes the whole premise obsolete. Think about the "you're a bad/not a jew" because a jew doesn't support Israel. Total nonsense His essay "the curse of community" highlights that as well as his chapter Myth of Authenticity and Its Impact on Politics-in New Orleans and Beyond.

[@minimalist279]

Oh I see / understand now, when Ta Nehisi says he has evolved.

[@stillcrass]

Tina Marie had 1 UK top ten, and 2 top 40s. Bit of a US-centric view there.

[@barneymiller5488]

Coates ASSUMES that white people didn't know who she was.

[@malaika495]

really.. that's what you took away from this WHOLE video??

[@tbr7921]

not even, I know tons of white people who have always loved Teena Marie...

[@citronm1405]

Ta-Nehisi Coates's essays are outstanding. I like how he explores American history. His writing is so good I subscribed to the print edition of the Atlantic Magazine even though I can read his articles on the internet for free. He's THAT good!

[@3506Dodge]

He's tragically misguided. He describes but does not explain. His essays may be useful in revealing the ways in which race contorts and confuses Americans, but he offers no useful contextualization of race.

[@visionpersistance]

3506Dodge Unfortunately, I must say I agree

[@justmyopinion9883]

Coates is a very gifted writer and speaker. I've read several of his books and watched many of his videos. He makes some people uncomfortable when he writes and talks about race. But, he is truthful. I guess sometimes the truth hurts.

[@lisamontez9401]

Oh, I can not disagree more. He is the worst writer I have ever read. I am serious. His English teachers should be embarrassed.

[@keithmoore1518]

@@lisamontez9401 that is a very subjective statement but what ever. He is published and widely recognized, are you?

[@buddinganarchist]

She tried with his thick head.

[@lgraceanderson2557]

Finally I learned how to pronounce Ta-Nehsi Coates name. Brilliant thinker. Greater writer.

[@greglevitt3841]

Too bad you couldn't be bothered to learn how to spell his name correctly.

[@Lebelekani]

+Greg Levitt Ouch!!!

[@epona9166]

Actually I don't think the person who introduced Fields and Coates did pronounce it right. He sad Ta-na-hee-see. I think it's pronounced Ta-na-ha-see. I tend to obsess over correct pronunciation of names, and one of my go-to sources is Trevor Noah. It seems he always makes a point of pronouncing peoples' names properly, which is part of being respectful of people. You do hear Ta-na-hee-see quite a bit, but it helps to take note of who is doing the introducing.

[@lordjohnson48]

Coates doesnt belong on stage with this woman. But its refreshing to see a liberal have their ideas openly challenged

[@RedBlackGreenAK]

39:45

[@markallen9600]

are these two really awkward together?

[@quadrifrons7342]

No more so than William F. Buckley Jr. and Noam Chomsky on a stage together.

[@RedBlackGreenAK]

1:12:33

[@DokDicer]

I just had to look up Teena Marie.

[@anotherpointofview222]

45:19 What made Tina Marie "black" if you couldn't see her?

[@buddinganarchist]

A lot of country flavored pop songs in 70s were soulful.

[@t33nyplaysp0p]

Most notably Southern Nights written by Allen Toussaint, played by Glenn Cambell. And Glenn Cambell's Witchita Lineman reworked by the Meters

[@patrickgremillion2155]

Ta-Nehisi Coates: Best writer of the 21st century

[@YoriYoiHitotachi]

Dude is trash.

[@justmyopinion9883]

Coates is up there with James Baldwin. He writes to make his readers think, not just to entertain them.

[@dontworrywelltalkitout9625]

@@justmyopinion9883 he’s not even close to Baldwin you should be ashamed

[@Elborrro]

24:30 "lifting a hand against a Christian"

[@Elborrro]

40:47 case against pessimism.

[@3506Dodge]

She predicted trumpian politics in 2013!

[@memphissommers4171]

You mean, honest, clear, concise and transparent politics? An administration that adheres to the constitution? An administration that is unlike the racist, Obama's horde of criminals? Trump, a man who dated a black woman, increased the chances of black Americans getting into colleges by signing HCBU legislation? Harboring Jennifer Hudson from the media in his hotel after her family members were murdered? You mean, Trump, who received countless civil rights awards alongside Rosa Parks, Muhammed Ali and Jesse Jackson? And what has Trump actually done in the year he has been in office> THREE times the amount Obama dis in eight (8) years. . Unemployment rates under 4% for the first time since 2000. Lowest unemployment rates ever, for women, blacks and Hispanics. Added a great Justice to the Supreme Court. Stock market reached an all-time high and broke countless records. Consumer confidence is at a 17 year high. 3 million jobs added since he took office. Mortgage applications for new homes rise to a 7 year high. He signed the Women In Entrepreneurship Act. Eliminated all job-killing, Obama regulations. Ended the war on coal. Weakened Dodd-Frank regulations. Promoted and increased the buying of American goods. Convinced major corporations to stay in America. Convinced major companies to build plants in America. Reduced illegal immigration so far by 57%. He is fighting back against sanctuary cities. Bids and prototypes for the border wall are underway. Created the Victims Of Immigration Crime Department. Changed the rules of engagement against Isis. Negotiated a deal to reduce the cost of the F-35. Implemented a 5 year ban on lobbyists. Reopened dialogue with 17 countries. Removed us from the Paris Climate scam. Sanctioned Iran over their nuclear program. Introduced an effective tax reform plan. Is re-negotiating NAFTA. Removed us from the TPP. Created a task force to address and reduce crime. Instructed the DOJ to target the MS-13 Mafia-style gang. Signed an executive order to help create energy independence. Signed an executive order to protect police officers. Signed an executive order to target drug cartels. Signed an executive order to protect religious freedom. Signed an executive order to fix Veteran’s Affairs Department. Signed an executive order to combat human trafficking. Signed an executive order to reduce Obamacare subsidies. Signed an executive order to reverse Obama’s interference with the space program. Signed an executive order to re-implement Iranian sanctions. Signed an executive order to allow more black students access to college. Implemented monetary sanctions against Russia. Appointed more women to his cabinet than any other president. Sent education back to the states. He was able to enforce portions of an illegal immigrant temporary travel ban. Authorized the completion of the Keystone pipeline. Created a medical commission on Opioid addiction. Rolled back Obama’s Cuba policy. Initiated programs that lowered food stamp usage to a 7 year low. Gutted the White House payroll. He donates his presidential salary. Negotiated the release of American prisoners in North Korea. Fully funded our military. Signed the Right To Try Act helping the terminally ill find treatment. Signs de-nuke pact with North Korea.

[@3506Dodge]

I mean white working class was actually listening to the left as they told people who identify as black and hispanic to vote their race and ethnicity. White people heard that and said, 'ok, I'll vote my race."

[@t33nyplaysp0p]

Lol this aged ​@@memphissommers4171

[@franciscomartindelcampo1336]

We encircle you now.

[@franciscomartindelcampo1336]

Professor Fields: Black people dictate the terms.

[@franciscomartindelcampo1336]

Diane Guerrero: My Third Virginity Option after Paco and Rudi was Gabriel Castillo. My volition... Steady - and faithful - girlfriend or cheater? Gabriel Castillo: Did I give Rudi second Prima Nocta? Could?

[@franciscomartindelcampo1336]

Professor Fields: The moral character argument kicks in again here. Diane and Paco will lead. We know that.

[@franciscomartindelcampo1336]

Professor Fields: A nation of readers, indeed.

[@franciscomartindelcampo1336]

Professor Fields: We accept Paco's terms: Black, White, and Asian State. Latino State. I overruled Paco on West Coast Latinas, because Patty rejected him, too.

[@hasseemabdul-jalil8836]

No black racism without power!

[@barneymiller5488]

This white person TOTALLY knew about Tina Marie. Use to play her first record to death.

[@barneymiller5488]

And I knew Charlie Pride a bit too.

[@barneymiller5488]

Tina Marie would NOT be acceptable today. "Cultural appropriation". Total horsecrap.

[@TS-qv1dv]

I am a brown shade, but my social status and standing is black #AmericanDOS

[@visionpersistance]

Elite, I don’t get this, as Jamaicans, Haitians, Cubans, ...yes, Mexicans, Colombians, Trinidadians, Puerto Ricans, Brazilians, Peruvians, etc, (as I couldn’t include all of the other Nations of the Western Hemisphere) of African, AND also European and Indigenous descent, are “American DOS” (Descendants of Slaves) as are “Black Americans” in the U.S. as ALL are products of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade which forcibly transported roughly 11 million captured Africans across the Atlantic to the Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, French (Danish!) and British Colonial possessions, one of which, Briitish North America, became the U.S.A.

[@v4vindication622]

visionpersistance it is to refer to the chattel slavery that took place in the US.

[@termikesmike]

Charley Pride was late 60s and played on Grand Ole Opry - everybody knew he was Black - and if everyone were the same color or painted by Jackson Pollock we'd still recognize 'Race' ..... My ancestors left their country of orgin and never looked back - it's even easier to do so today .... try another country and make it better than the English white boys did .... I'll bet Barbara doesn't know anything about sports either - name 1 soccer team ?

[@TommyFink-y6c]

Harris Jeffrey Harris Deborah Rodriguez Mary

[@williamlukesinclair1315]

Coates is sort of the anti Barbara Fields.

[@JoaquinCruze-ht7sn]

Nations not races

[@lisamontez9401]

His book, Between the World and Me, is the worst book I have ever read. Not only was it full of absolutely awful grammar, it was the most racist book I have ever read. I can't believe he is taken seriously.

[@abe8435]

Try “The Turner Diaries” or “Mein Kampf”. Probably more your speed

[@holmedw]

She's interesting but her voice puts me to sleep.

[@1wolfsclaw]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[@BlackBeltMonkeySong]

It's the race hustlers!

[@ellomirza]

Agriculture was invented when some woman kept complaining to her husband, who’s out there slaying mammoth, how hard collecting berries and roots is. And he suggested “why don’t you just plant them all in one place”

[@HM-mw7cg]

Need to read her book but Barbara Fields is pretty frustrating to listen to. She doesn't explain things at all clearly. Came into this fed up with Coates' approach, but I find Glenn Loury way more engaging and understandable as a counter to him.

[@t33nyplaysp0p]

Because you're a conservative who only disagrees with the notion of liberal id politics, but embrace id politics still. She's explained everything fine. You're just a twit 😂

[@darf9833]

SHE IS NOT A VERY INSPIRING OR GOOD INTERVIEWER....

[@3506Dodge]

She's an interviewee here. She isn't a talk show host, She's a professor of history.

[@miskaarpa3248]

She has a gentle, intellectual way of speaking. It's not splashy. She's an academic and this gentle style is not respected in our short-attention span culture.

[@jayseashavefur]

She is an excellent and inspiring writer though. Her book is one of the first things I’ve read in a long time that I was actually excited to pick up each time.

[@jaysteve4442]

Hilarious how Tanehisi jokes & Dr. Fields has no se as of humor. At all. Not gonna lie, she is brilliant but amazingly uninspiring. She would put anyone to sleep

[@nonamesnonames]

She's not an entertainer. That's not her job.

[@t33nyplaysp0p]

She's actually hilarious and it's even funnier that you don't understand how subtle it is. In this interview She's being gracious with Coates

[@jaysteve4442]

@@t33nyplaysp0p your comment is exactly what I’m talking about. She doesn’t need to be “gracious” as if she’s somehow better than him. Some gatekeeper. Like a female Cosby, minus the criminal behavior. Coates is brilliant in his own right. She thinks she’s better than him - and it shows. Many of the elders are shitty to the next gen for selfish reasons. This is not new. Now what you saw to have you conclude that she was being hilarious is more about you, than me.

[@t33nyplaysp0p]

But this is what happens when a self proclaimed intellectual who is hoisted up by NYT, and other liberals in an attempt to try to recuperate their brand, coming into confluence with one of the most respected historians in their field. There is no need to protect Coates, unless you've assigned your identity to race and clearly the American-centric anti intellectual view of one needs to be entertaining to be valid.

[@corrocot1]

I hate to say this, but she hasn't aged well. She was so good looking back in 1989.

[@PupienusMagnus]

She’s old...

[@barneymiller5488]

Then don't say it. Some people don't give a crap about grey air. #AgeCraft

[@yamiyugi2894]

She looks fine

[@23trillionskidoo]

Ta-Nehisi, why do you have to use such a hard name?

[@3506Dodge]

For the same reason Cher is called Cher....he wants to be remembered. He's seeking attention.

[@Frenchhornhero]

3506Dodge Are you for real? That’s his given name...