Racing the Devil: Identifying Di Meola-Style Wrist Picking Motion

[@PEMAMETAL]

10:12 you said "I have almost no pick slant at all". But Man, too me this looks like a very obvious upward pick slanting.Your pick is obviously going in the air in the downstrokes and trapped between string in the upstroke. Am I misunderstanding something here?

[@troygrady]

Great question! Pickslant refers to the slanted orientation of the pick, not the angled direction of its motion. In Andy Wood’s example, the motion is angled, the pick is not. In previous lessons we have been sloppy in referrering them as kind of the same thing. So we now have a term for the motion (escape motion) and a term for the pick’s slant (Pickslanting) because they can vary somewhat independently.

[@PEMAMETAL]

@@troygrady Thanks for the answer Troy! You are awesome. So you can have a pick that is pickslanted but at the same time no scape motion and voce versa. I really thought of those things together.

[@troygrady]

They vary somewhat independently. Just an example you’ve probably noticed that not all downward pickslanting players have the amount of pickslant. This is not a matter of personal preference. It’s because they’re using different arm positions, pick grips and joint motions, in other words, different techniques. Gypsy technique is not the same as Mike Stern’s technique even though they both are nominally “downward pickslanting”. So right away we know that the pickslant is one thing, with a particular purpose, and that it is separate from the picking motion and whatever is generating it.

[@jfo3000]

@@troygrady Glad that you clarify that either pickslant can have either escape motion. I've mixed both escape motions across both pick slants forever, before your first video even, so I felt like a bit of a freak upon seeing your early videos...like I was doing things too out of the box.

[@sat1241]

@@troygrady Have you looked into Josh Meader's playing? I have never seen guiatr playing that efficient. Check this out: LINGUS || Cory Henry's Solo on Guitar

[@shredgd5]

The amazing thing is that not only Troy can finely and precisely analyze the different picking motions of players, he’s also able to exactly replicate them with success! This is phenomenal because we all know how difficult it is to change however basic technique.

[@scottsmith4145]

Very true! And Troy himself is a monster picker as is clearly seen in his videos. He seems to be able to not lock himself into any one technique and can add all these techniques to his tool box and use as needed.

[@tonyflorez703]

True that !!

[@radinkhandan3209]

I’m putting pictures of all the guitar heroes who inspired me to play on my wall , Randy Rhoads , Paul Gilbert , James Hetfield , David Gilmour .... and there is also a picture of you . Thank you for all the things you’ve done

[@ChickenatorJr]

Troy is a genius. As soon as a saw him dissect EJ's playing so accurately and could reproduce the exact technique of the master himself, I knew this channel was one to start paying attention to!

[@liquid7315]

Good to see you are ok Troy.

[@troygrady]

We're doing good, thank you!

[@troygrady]

@@interestingthings8598 When it's done! We have some detailed updates on our Kickstarter page and blog if you'd like more of the play by play. But we've got working prototypes so things are moving more or less as planned.

[@Theweeze100]

I watched Al play live, In support of the Casino album, back in the late 70s, and it changed my “guitar” life forever. Funny enough on the same program was the band UK, featuring Allen Holdsworth. I really didn’t realize what I was seeing at the time. Feel very blessed to think back on that night now that I’m in my 60s. By the way your video is absolutely Superb, and I will pass it on to every player I know. Please continue to put out phenomenal content!

[@troygrady]

I've had that experience of not realizing the future import of the band I was watching, when I saw Alice in Chains open for Extreme. I was just like, who are these dirty guys, and where is Nuno?

[@Fastguitar]

My friend s father in law owned a huge guitar store in Maryland. He asked me. Who would be cool to hire to play at store. In early 80s I said Al dimeola He hired him. Store was packed Al said I could sit in. It was. Awesome

[@maneli]

The amount to analytical thought put into explaining this 😍

[@mandanglelow1442]

Yes but is it OVERLY analytical? I get it and I'm not trying to be an ass but at some point you just have to get to making music. Sometimes you can overthink things.

[@sunnibird]

@@mandanglelow1442 you’re missing the entire purpose of this video and site in general.

[@maneli]

@@mandanglelow1442 I hear you. It’s not for everyone but for us guitar nerds who love to have things broken down like this it gives us more clarity in understanding our own preferred way of picking. It’s channels like this that will have its niche and that’s honestly a good thing in standing out from others.

[@mandanglelow1442]

@@maneli True. I was just thinking out loud. 👍😊🍺

[@troygrady]

@@mandanglelow1442 Yes there is such a thing as overly analytical for sure. The test is simple: do people get better at guitar from watching something? If they say they learned something, but they don't actually get any better, then it's overly analytical. If they say they learned something, and actually acquire an ability they didn't have previously, then it's not overly analytical, no matter how technical the presentation. TLDR it's the results that matter, and this is always uppermost in our minds as teachers.

[@ivonsmith3095]

Excellent TROY!! Great to see Al & John MClaughlin featured! 2 of the greatest pickers ever

[@nickcharles7972]

Too bad we can't get a Larry Coryell video. He's sadly overlooked. Originally the acoustic trio with McLaughlin and Di Meola was supposed to feature Larry Coryell instead of Paco De Lucia. Sadly, his drug problems got in the way. There are some videos of a few performances floating around, and they KILLED as a trio. Larry Coryell had some of THE fastest and CLEANEST picking ever heard in Jazz or Rock. RIP- Larry Coryell

[@BigBlackBe4r]

Just stumbled upon your channel a couple of days ago (an algo stumble). What you do is amazing !!! Once I got past the fact that you look like you should be floating around in the International Space Station instead of in a guitar technique video, I was HOOKED! Thank you so much for you amazing contribution to the guitar freaks as myself. Cheers

[@troygrady]

If you've got ISS connections, I'm all for it!

[@random_an0n]

this channel is awesome it goes into detail on things other channels never even touch resting your arm and anchoring on the ball of your wrist joint really does help inc this 2 o clock thing,i was playing master of puppets tremolo picking part in the solo with my hand completely floating and my pick totally flat and was getting pissed i couldnt get it past the speed barrier regardless of how fast i tried,now im much faster cheers

[@ChuloDavidcito]

Fantastic lesson, Troy. Nobody else is this authoritative on flatpicking. I wish I had seen these while I was learning.

[@Galactu5]

Been following you since the beginning. Love your work, and don't stop!

[@enriquemendez1507]

Excellent insight and visual examples of the ideas discussed. Subbed 😁

[@RICCARDOREARDON]

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE..TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY LOVE THIS VIDEO... UNCLE~MR.AL DI MEOLA WAS MY VERY FIRST GUITAR HERO..RIGHT ALONG AND SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH UNCLE~MR.MICHAEL SCHENKER.... THANK YOU FOR UPLOADING THIS VIDEO...

[@MrNachoponcho]

I’ve been studying Al’s and Andy’s playing for a bit now as I have a similar picking motion and have been in a bit of a rut with my playing. I’ve figured out that I may be focusing too much on having a pick angle and when I moved to more of a vertical approach like Andy these runs seem to be easier. Love the details you provide!

[@gimmeagig]

I'm 66 mainly a bass player but I like picking up the guitar as well. But after many many years of playing I still can't pick very fast. Don't really need to for what I'm doing but this video is motivating me to see if I can improve . I have never seen picking explained in such detail. This is great. Thank you Troy

[@jadm110]

I would like to ask troy to do a video in what pick stiles and thicknesses are used by these hyper fast players is there a shape of pick that lends its self to increasing picking speed. and what thickness of picks are used by very fast players ( an area I have not seen covered yet). - thank you troy for making these videos

[@troygrady]

Honestly I don't think there's a gauge that helps you go faster. Common picks in the 1mm to 1.4mm range, like a typical Fender "heavy" or a Dunlop Jazz III, all work fine even for extremely fast playing.

[@guyguitary]

Awesome! You should also do an episode on John McLaughlin.

[@busterdouglas593]

Elegant Gypsy was my introduction to shred.

[@troygrady]

You are probably not alone!

[@TheLexluthier]

Mine too. I remember Al explaining his picking technique in a magazine article decades ago. I used that info to get started with fast picking.

[@ImminentMusicForce]

"Land of the Midnight Sun" was mine. (ignore what that implies about my age:)

[@lukasgraesslin]

not related but it's funny seeing your comment when I recently started playing dark souls.

[@yuriyuriyuriyuri5002]

Babe wake up, troy uploaded.

[@robertsmithduarte7732]

What?🤔

[@anightmare2remember]

Haha

[@TheBlueskyson]

Great rug bro. Interesting and comprehensive. ty 4 the slow motion drills and diff perspectives. ty 4 vid

[@JeffIndigo]

I tend to play like eddie with the three finger pinch concept when I sit down, but I notice I do more zakk wylde when I stand. Its crazy, and I'm glad you mentioned, AUTOPILOT. Thanks troy. Another great video.

[@troygrady]

I'm a big fan of the EVH middle-finger / three-finger grip style of wrist motion, and it's one of the motions we cover in this series. It's not actually that different from what Al does in overall concept, it's just performed from a different arm position - hence the different grip needed to reach the strings.

[@tobiash04]

hey troy, i just wanna thank you for all the free resources you put online! your research has helped me develop so much, without you id still be playing nirvana songs. i would buy your courses but im a student so i try and make up by recommending you to others when i can! thanks troy, youre great

[@troygrady]

Thanks for watching our stuff! Always happy to hear our stuff may be helpful.

[@frostedhead]

Also you have the best instructional vids in this galaxy.

[@janmariposquefamily]

Hi Troy. Fantastic as always! Because of your videos it helped me shape my picking technique. When i found out about Andy Wood, i focused on learning his picking technique. For low E to G i seem to grasp the idea. However, im having trouble moving from the G string to the B and E strings. Everytime I move from G to B, i tend instinctly shift my pickslant to almost vertical.

[@PEMAMETAL]

One thing that seems very obvious to me in that 2 o clock motion is that the 3 fingers not holding the pick always go in the air in the downstrokes, while downward pickslanters those 3 fingers are hitting and scratching the body of the guitar (or the pick guard) if they are folded.

[@troygrady]

This isn’t a requirement - the position of the fingers is somewhat secondary. You can curl them so they don’t hit the guitar in either case. It’s really just the direction the wrist is moving that you’re controlling.

[@franklinbelisario1877]

BRUTAL ESTE CANAL EL UNICO QUE PROFUNDIZA REALMENTE LOS SECRETOS Y TECNICAS DE LA MANO DERECHA , PARA MI LA MAS IMORTANTE PARA TENER UN NIVEL OPTIMO EN LA GUITARRA

[@troygrady]

Si, tenemos un enfoque particular. Gracias por ver!

[@BenEller]

Anybody else constantly rewatch these videos??? Just me???

[@mycustomyoutubechannel2539]

me and you ben

[@omarstacc8590]

Amazing job,man ... salute you from Argentina, vamoooh Troy!

[@Pain2337]

Are you planning to make a video about Robert Fripps picking style?

[@noneavailable5515]

Mr Grady,Mr Grady...Master of my much improved picking mechanics🤘

[@EarthAltar]

I've tried to explain the relationship between odd/even numbers of notes per string and the importance of starting with an upstroke or downstroke to students and other players only to get a look from them like I'm speaking some ancient Martian dialect.

[@Roman8883]

Ancient Martian dialect?

[@mysterybotts]

@@Roman8883 yeah ancient Martian dialect. Old language from Mars.

[@Roman8883]

@@mysterybotts yeah yeah sure bud thanks

[@troygrady]

For sure. The hard part is figuring out how to get through to people. In the sequence of lessons this video comes from, we've included some hands-on tests that someone can do, and sort of sidestep the issue of "knowing" what their motion is. You play certain phrases, and look at whether the motion gets bouncy or stays fast and smooth. A similar hands-on approach like that might work better for students. However, the tests should probably still be administered by a teacher such as yourself, since you'll be better equipped to evaluate the results, i.e. so the student doesn't really have to.

[@EarthAltar]

@@troygrady Thanks, Troy! You're doing God's work.

[@arieleshcar]

Great stuff! Would be great if you do an episode on John McLaughlin.

[@billlybarrue5953]

Excellent. Thanks for all your videos.

[@gogpoydi]

Thanks to your videos my picking has improved drastically

[@troygrady]

Always glad to hear it!

[@AlexVonCrank]

He’s back!!! Good to see ya boss👍🏽

[@Ghaos]

Always good to see your vids. Dude, where can I get a black magnet, that looks awesome.

[@rhythmtreble7311]

i was just watching your vid on yngwies dedicated pickslant, the di meola licks i know work well, about to play along to a song and saw this. small world man.

[@air_one]

You deserve more subscribers, Sir!

[@MrJessterr]

Really great material here, I'll try to develop this one in my technique !

[@enriquematiasreimermillan5120]

Once again Troy, you share great wisdom!!! Thank you!!!

[@Benbutlermusic]

Al-Mike-Al-Mike-Al-Mike-Al-Mike-Al-Mike-Al-Mike-Al-Mike-Al-Mike-Al-Mike-Al-Mike-Al-Mike-Al-Mike-Al-Mike-Al-Mike-Al-Mike- IS GENIUS! Such a clear way of describing what's going on. Thank you.

[@troygrady]

Aha, so you watched that one. Keep us posted if that actually helps get anywhere with the motions. Your playing is already pretty great, and very wristy, so it's only a stone's throw to more mixed escape kind of stuff.

[@Benbutlermusic]

@@troygrady before I was using wrist motion for dsx picking but more forearm rotation for usx playing. Now getting more toward the same palm anchor point for both and getting to wrist based usx. Which is what you were taking about in our private session. So thanks!

[@MikeSasquatch]

Troy, thanks! That was the missing link to playing "race with the devil"

[@גיאדניאל-ב4צ]

Thank you, can ypu do a video about John Petrucci or Jason Richardson

[@lone-wolf-1]

I very much like your analyses of picking motions !!🙌🏼😀👍🏼 I just would make a difference between downstroke or upstroke. On down stroke I would call it a 8 o’clock motion, on upstroke a 2 o’clock motion... Same for 10 o’clock and 4 o’clock. My picking motion after 6 years: 3 and 9 o‘clock, but also 2 and 8, or 10 and 4, allways on a radius of around 5 inch, turning my whrist combined with tiny finger movements. while sticking out just 2-2.5mm of the pick‘s tip. After each picking the tip is always free for the next. And I alternate all accordingly. Absolute no string rest, only while sweeping! I try to control the attack, loudness and sound by digging in the whole 2mm or just grabbing the upper half of the string. But I‘m very inconsistent at this because still a beginner...

[@troygrady]

Correct, yes when we say 2:00 we really mean “8 to 2 or 2 to 8”. However when you want upstroke string changes you can’t do 10. That would be stringhopping. Instead the correct motion is 9. Remember the arm is already tilted, so 9 already escapes. There is no need to move it.

[@lone-wolf-1]

@@troygrady Thank you!👍🏼

[@CMM5300]

I've been working ways to do 2 way pick slants... that helped. I can just raise and lower the thumb heel. 3nps. Alt pick

[@mikeraz594]

Great work Troy

[@ariehandoko6806]

Always great analysis 👍👍👍, next video please analyze Anton Oparin's picking technique 🙏🙏

[@mrmogensen]

2:45 that part gets me hard every time. Especially considering how on the album he just plays G F# E on a loop faster and faster, that live twist of running the figure up the scale, ending with a slide down to the main lick again just tickles me the right way

[@ThisCanNotBTheFuture]

Troy, in addition to having to your mad chops, I genuinely believe you have made a permanent impact on pedagogical theory of electric guitar. By the way, any plans to interview Mancuso?

[@princeworld4769]

Sir kimdly make a video about the George Benzon picking technique, it looks and sounds great…and it seems faster. But its too difficult to achieve in my case..is it worth learning? Thank you sir.

[@BenCoultryAfishall]

It was the "pinky heel" rest that finally unlocked this achievement for me.

[@Cloroqx]

Much love.

[@cheddacheese148]

You mention that most escapes will be done with a downstroke but when an upstroke escape is needed, what adjustments are used? Do we see a rotation of the arm to change the escape motion or do players typically escape upward by extending the wrist? I would say that I'm a 2 o'clock picker myself. I personally rotate my forearm to switch to an upstroke escape motion but have been experimenting with methods to smooth out string transitions for 3 nps runs. The arm rotation isn't terrible but it's tiresome for 1 nps licks.

[@troygrady]

Lots of approaches for this: all wrist, wrist forearm, and no adjustment at all, just play though whatever is in the way. Depends on the player / phrase.

[@Jonny94669]

Check out Joe Bonamassa for this technique, he's a master 2 way escape player and often plays fast licks that require 1 note per string

[@cheddacheese148]

Thanks to you both. I've studied a bit of Bonamassa's work in regards to his style but I'll do a deeper dive into his technique as well. Currently something like the intro to RHCP's "Snow" is nightmare fuel for my escape mechanics. My forearm feels it very quickly.

[@SamuelPinho1]

Love from Brazil!

[@dreamwever87]

Thank you as always, Troy

[@kazkylheku1221]

12:52 Is that a Blue Chip pick?

[@luigicannizzo2669]

" Very Good Job on ( vdc ) Istructional Play Guitar Technic ". .. Many Thank Mr. Grady for Your Work's on Guitar Technic Concept. .. So' Nice ... ☺😊😀/💙💙💙/👍👌👏👋

[@kbkesq]

I’m a subscriber. Would be interesting you addressing the interplay between how one holds the guitar. Andy woods has it really locked in for example. Also get @AlDimeola on as a guest!

[@troygrady]

Thanks for signing up. We'll probably include some notes in a future update about things like approach angle, since that affects things like pick grip. But if you have something more specific in mind in terms of a problem that needs addressing, definitely let us know on the forum.

[@satchrules101]

Troy is the best!

[@monsterzero1965]

Almost everyone says they angle their pick up to 20 degrees forward but when I still frame the pick is flat on the string?

[@troygrady]

It sounds like you're asking about what we call "edge picking". It's a core component of pick attack, and it acts as a tone control. Flat is brighter, more edge is darker. However, there is no "correct" edge picking angle, and all amounts technically work. Bluegrass player, for example, often use almost no edge picking, for a flat attack, and a brighter sound.

[@monsterzero1965]

@@troygrady Thank you for your timely response much appreciated! Keep up your smokin playing and the inventive and superior video work!

[@StefanoScarlataDuranGuitar]

Wow !!!! The lesson I was looking for ! Thank you 😀

[@alessandrograsso8570]

In th First Malmsteen's album,the Song "Now tour ships are burned" Is an evident influence from al di meola "chasing the voodoo" in elegant gipsy...but he was not the Only one.every moderna shredders from 80s and 90s knew that al di meola and John McLaughlin playing was the school

[@chrisking6695]

I started doing the 2 o clock motion without knowing. Since getting into your videos more I've been trying to do it the opposite way (upstroke escape) and it's pretty impossible at this point. Idk what in doing differently but it feels so odd to not do the downstroke escape motion.

[@ArticLight14]

When you gonna do one on Fredrick Thordendal? Lol that Bleed riff.

[@TheGazza83]

Jesus Troy you're getting ripped dude

[@rottalmusik6563]

Thanks❤

[@i.m.6115]

Excellent 👍

[@WilRockQ]

Hi Troy. That very first sequence as the video starts - is there a tab for that in the full lesson?

[@troygrady]

No but that’s Al’s tune Race With Devil on Spanish highway, I’m sure there are resources for this online it’s almost a signature song for him.

[@citizentcrusader8091]

Troy did you say this type of picking was possible while resting on the thumb pad? Thanks

[@troygrady]

Yes, technically the motion is the motion, and is not really affected by the anchor point. You can use a range of arm positions from the thumb pad to the pinky pad and the downstrokes will still go up in the air. The more you turn toward the thumb, the more vertical the downstrokes will appear to go. However, the fine point is that if you ever want to play lines like 3nps scales, you will also need the upstrokes to go up in the air, and when Al does this he leans on the pinky pad so that you can make two (slightly different) diagonal motions, not just one. That being said there *are* two motions you can use when resting on the thumb pad with no pinky contact, however they are different motions than the one shown here. This is how Molly Tuttle and David Grier play scales, and we have a lesson on that approach as well. But again, that's not Al's motion, it's slightly different.

[@alexjackson8841]

Hey troy, I’ve wondered for a little while why you haven’t done a video on Shawn Lane? As one of the fastest guitar players the world has ever seen, I would have thought his technique would be a great thing to make a video on. Especially with his 3 finger grip on the pick - you don’t see that much. I just wondered, Thanks!

[@troygrady]

Shawn is great. I think part of the issue is that his technique is in some respects very similar to players we've already looked at like Eric Johnson, and a lot of the long-time viewers already know the "trick" to how those picking techniques work. But we'll get back to him eventually I'm sure.

[@smellytele9629]

Oh thank goodness! I thought I was the only upward slant, start with an up stroke player out there. I fought it so hard for a long time, I was convinced that I should be slanting down. But I eventually accepted that I was a misfit and settled into playing what felt natural to me and my technique improved pretty quickly. Now, how do I apply this to a spread triad type of thing? I can't get comfy with it.

[@troygrady]

Just keepin mind that there's not an actual "slant" to Al's pick most of the time, that's the trick here. What matters is the diagonal path of the motion, where downstrokes go up in the air, not the appearance of the pick itself. That's why I generally refer to this type of motion as a "downstroke escape" motion, i.e. where the downstrokes go above the string, rather than by the appearance of the pick. As far as the tria question, it's just a question of string changes. For this motion to work, the last note on every string needs to be a downstroke. If it's not, you can use a legato note, or just pick it and hit the next string. These are all things that players do who use this motion.

[@smellytele9629]

@@troygrady That's how mine is, the down motion is above the strings and the up is below. I think it came from playing hybrid style for so many years. Maybe if I take a vid and post it on the cracking the code forum someone can give me some tips as far as expanding it a bit. The only problem I have with it is that it's a completely different forearm and wrist form from how I play chords. Thanks for the reply, I'll continue this on the CTC forum.

[@kbkesq]

As a jazz player I find dimeola style of picking to come most naturally to me- alternating upward and downward pickslanting. But I hate the sound! Would love to see you show us how you can play the melody to Donna Lee without distortion and have it sound full and round. Please?!

[@maxwellblakely7952]

Do you mean distortion of the pick edge against the string?

[@basildog007]

Perfect content as always 👌

[@alexandercalder2143]

How does Troy feel about economy picking?

[@kbkesq]

Great video. Classical guitar needs some like you to analyze the different ways of “picking”! @Grisha Gorayev is amazing and a greet teacher but you could maybe collaborate!

[@troygrady]

I'll be the first person to say that Cracking the Code isn't really needed everywhere. Only where there is an obvious mismatch between how many people attempt something versus how many can't do it. And even then, only if the mismatch relates to a lack of understanding of how things work. So... do most people try to learn classical and fail, the way they do with flat picking technique? If so, there might be something there. But as an outsider, honestly, most classical players look pretty similar in form and capabilities. Which is quite different, from, say, jazz players or rock players and so on.

[@frostedhead]

From what I've learned watching your vid' is the actual 'Pick of Destiny' is really the Dunlop Jazz iii

[@scottsmith4145]

Troy let me see if I understand,,, so this 2 oclock downward escape motion will work on even or odd numbers of notes per string,,, for even notes start with an upstroke,, for odd a downstroke. But transitioning from an even to odd noted string requires a sweep though which interrupts the alternate picking but if mastered you can now stay locked into this speed picking technique and have ultimate freedom? . However, a transition from an odd to even noted string does not interrupt the alternate picking system at all

[@troygrady]

Here's the long answer: Technically speaking, a downstroke escape picking motion can *only* be used to play lines where the last note on every string is a downstroke, otherwise you would contact one of the surrounding strings. Players like John McLaughlin adhere strictly to this rule, and almost every line he plays is a pattern with a downtroke as the last note on each string. He gets amazing mileage out of this. Check out his "Cherokee" solo on the Tonight show, which you can find here on KZbin. Almost the entire thing is downstroke string changes. Al uses the same wrist motion as John, but often playes lines where the last note is an upstroke. I think there are several things happening. On many live performances you can actually hear the upstrokes hitting the next open string during string changes, which is what I call a "swipe". While this is technically a mistake, it doesn't sound too bad if the playing is synchronized, it's just a little open string noise every so often. You can get rid of that noise with palm muting and left hand muting, and lots of players do this. It's possible that Al does this some of the time and that's why we can't hear it, even though he is hitting the string. Finally, it also is possible to use a slightly different wrist motion for the upstroke string changes. The would allow the pick to get over the string. It's what players like Andy Wood and Anton Oparin do. However, since wrist motions are small, we wouldn't know if Al is doing that without filming him up close with a camera.

[@scottsmith4145]

@@troygrady Thanks for the detailed reply Troy. Love all the work you are doing!

[@132petrit]

What about Howard Roberts technique?

[@mitchellbadders5636]

So this video turned me on to Al's playing, and I've found that playing on an acoustic holds your elbow in place and facilitates wrist only picking. When playing on an electric though, the elbow gets some movement. Is there just a physiological difference that prevents me from any elbow movement without the body holding in pla e Eben when playing slow? Dudes like Al and Petrucci seem to have zero elbow movement and it's just not possible for me at any speed.

[@troygrady]

When we film wrist players, we often see some elbow movement alongisde the wrist, probably because the wrist can choose to move in the same plane as the elbow if it wants. This is evident in Al's fastest playing, and in the playing of players whose techniques are similar to Al's, like Andy Wood. It is possible to move only the wrist joint, but it's not because you do something to force the elbow to be stationary. It's because you simply choose to move only the wrist. However this is not something I'd really be concerned about. The reason we see the wrist and elbow operating together is because they can, and there isn't necessarily any penalty to doing this. The main thing to focus on is smoothness and tension. If you feel arm or shoulder tension when you play, that's a sign that you may not be doing the motion correctly. Experimentation is the answer, to find some way of moving that doesn't feel like it's going to burn out in a bar or two.

[@regisveronezzi6450]

Excelent content as always... Can you start thinking about Jake E Lee? His right hand is something to watch

[@oostenmusic]

A lesser known picking technique is "circular picking" where you use your thumb and index finger to move the pick up and down, as if you where drawing miniature circles on paper. Its been used to play inhuman speeds (Takayoshi Ohmura, Mikio Fujioka, Yngwie Malmsteen) though most people don't ever tell you about this technique.

[@jskypercussion]

Frank Zappa used it as well

[@troygrady]

Some players are fast with finger motion, but the fastest joint we've filmed is the elbow, followed by the wrist. Unless you're in a death metal band you may not really really *need* 250bpm alternate picking speed, but it's nice to know it's actually possible and does not require Usain bolt levels of genetic gifts.

[@Bmxmusikian]

Amazing mate, love it

[@ixcaliber]

Strangely, due to the wonky shape of my hand, if I anchor both the pinky and thumb side of my wrist, the pick ends up at about a 35 degree downward slant with the same grip you're displaying. If I only use the pinky side to anchor, that slant is even more extreme. Either way, the point is that it makes DSX motions close to impossible due to the garage spike issue on the upstroke. I have to pronate my wrist very far back to get the pick to sit at a neutral slant.

[@troygrady]

It's probably just the grip you're using. Are you on our forum? Show us a photo of this, we'd be interested in seeing it. There could be some subtlety we're missing in the grip interaction.

[@Yngsatchvai]

Did your invention ever ship?? I know I put in bout 50$. Forgot all about that

[@sunnibird]

They’ve sent out email updates on it.

[@troygrady]

Thanks for backing us! We're getting closer, and we have working prototypes now. You can check the Kickstarter page or our blog for more details on how it's going. But we'll get there, for sure.

[@brucegregori]

So I am guess Al starts this phrase on an upstroke?

[@troygrady]

The first three notes are a pickup, DUD, before the next bar begins. So when the downbeat arrives, it's an upstroke. So you're right that this phrase is basically upstroke-on-downbeat, the reverse of how lots of players like to do things. One thing I'd also point out is that this phrase includes string changes where the last note on the string is a downstroke, which is how this motion works, but also where the last note is an upstroke. Without changing the motion, this would technically cause you to hit a string, or "swipe" during string changes. Without closeup footage it's hard to say if that's what's actually happening, and Al is just muting the noise, or if he's making a slightly different motion at thosepoints. Al does use strategic swiping in other phrases, and you can sometimes hear the noise, but this phrase is so heavily muted it's kind of hard to tell.

[@brucegregori]

@@troygrady thanks. I watch the video with Vai and when he misses the timing of kick because he just having fun, he looks like and upstroke start. But this isn’t the full line. I can play it both ways up to tempo but I know he likes to start things on an up. Oh Al….lol

[@davekiddie4467]

@@troygrady is there tab for this, there must be a half dozen ways to play this.

[@hernan6266hc]

These are gold man! Thanks

[@napolisquared]

Pure gold

[@XSFlanger]

I'm an advanced man. I see Troy's video, I instalike it! :)

[@chroniclesofgoatman]

Awesome

[@Quinceps]

It seems I'm gonna have to learn guitar again, cause my wrist spins every time I go fast. And I can't keep the strings quiet decently 😢

[@OdinStan]

Slash is my favourite player and the reason I play guitar: I know he is not known for his shredding but I’d love to see an analysis done in him

[@troygrady]

I know we have that impression now. But when GNR first came out the 80s were in full swing and Slash honestly seemed to fit in fine. I mean, the playing on the first album is pretty hard core. The end of Paradise City is an all out shredfest for over a minute straight.

[@OdinStan]

@@troygrady hopefully that means he qualifies for analysis. Thanks for reply.

[@OdinStan]

@@troygrady he defo rests the fleshy part of the pinky side on the bridge, and the fleshy thumb part is close to touching at times too: DSX?

[@shchshzh]

thanks!

[@kbkesq]

This isn’t a guitar lesson , this is a forensic investigation!

[@frostedhead]

That's really your voice? I thought hired a voice narrator? very cool.

[@Seriouskai]

Really good stuff, makes me wonder about my own picking technique, or lack of it haha

[@troygrady]

If you have a motion you can do that is fast and smooth on a single note, then you have what you need. That motion can probably be employed to great effect for more complex lines once you understand which escape it has. That's really the thrust of this sequence of lessons.

[@Seriouskai]

@@troygrady Thanks, really appreciate the tips! :) Actually, thanks to you and your videos I've been giving my guitar playing more thought than just "strumming is fun" lately, and I do think and feel that there's been some improvement too. I have to admit I really don't know much about music and playing, I took it up more seriously about 5 years ago to help negate my rheumatism a bit as my fingers felt a bit stiff, but I doubt I'll ever be a Slash or anything, but I can always dream :)

[@GooZe...]

This is something I really struggle with... I am lefthanded but I learned and play righthanded guitar... Which is ok I guess but my picking hand is so weak and I play different everytime and I can't settle on something that feels comfortable or even reliable. The first years have never been a problem learning chords, hammer ons, pull offs, legato, arpeggios has been very easy for me but alternate picking, economy picking a different story. I play guitar for about fifteen years now maybe even more and I still struggle on economy picking at 80bpm... The faster I try to play the more my technique falls apart... Hopefully I can take something from this.

[@troygrady]

I hear your frustration. The best thing to do is put down the guitar and test your joint motions. Once you know your joints can move normally, then you realize that you just have to do the same thing on a guitar and it will work fine. Here's one test we like to use which you can watch here on the channel ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmezhnaKlrN0hdk ). The complete set is here ( troygrady.com/primer/testing-your-motions/ ) but try the free one first and record what metronome marking you can get to. If it's way faster and smoother than your actual guitar picking, then that's good news - you have all that ability just waiting to happen.

[@jadm110]

if you are left handed you have a great adavntage in that your dominate have is doing all he hard work! if I had it to over again I would have defiantly done a lefty guitar

[@chrississon5954]

Interestingly it didnt look like Vai was picking every note on that clip

[@aleksik4028]

Maybe some gypsy jazz guys like Stochelo Rosenberg or Jimmy Rosenberg. Picking seems quite different, yes aim to down stroke mostly, but also the angle is so different, especially with Stochelo =)

[@troygrady]

For sure, those players are the opposite of Al in the sense that the upstrokes go up in the air, which we call "USX" motion, or "upstroke escape" motion. We have interviewed Joscho Stephan and in another video in this series we look at his alternate picking motion. It's a combination of wrist and forearm, so it's a little more complicated than Al's motion, which is just wrist. In general, most Gypsy players appear to use a mix of the wrist and forearm joints.

[@LexxiGore]

We have different comfortability of playing in arms. For example Marty Friedman.. Al dimeola plays acoustic too that's why he's hand move wide. He's accenting the note in scale neither in electric.