Radio Westeros E18 Theon Greyjoy

[@sertorrhenclegane]

I'm just imagining what breakfast had to look like at the Greyjoy household. Theon: Can someone please pass the jam? Balon: Did you pay the Iron Price for that jam? Theon rolls his eyes

[@KatAdVictoriam]

I have listened to your podcasts since 2015, re-listening a few times a year and I just want to say that I never get tired of listening! Your podcasts have helped me catch details I had missed in the books altogether and helped me put pieces together I'd forgotten about or hadn't considered. I just want to say thank you (I've been on a full catalogue re-listen) for all of your work. I look forward to what you release in the future. Much love Lady Gwyn and YB!

[@RadioWesteros]

Thanks for the lovely comment! We appreciate it so much, and always love to hear how people listen (or re-listen 😊) Speaking of the future, there should be a new ep coming soon! Cheers- LG & yb

[@pamelaevans-schink8707]

I really appreciate this sympathetic perspective on Theon. It makes me quite sad for him. What a lonely soul, not feeling like he belonged to anyone. 😢

[@JamesBuschell]

Reek Reek it rhymes with Meek, thanks for doing this Lady Gwyn and Yolkboy. Great entertainment as always

[@BenGally00]

one of my favorite character arcs... Poor kid just didn't know the right move...

[@9Tiptoes]

I love the idea of Theon as an archer at the wall.

[@Br4nTheBuilder]

Holy shit, I'm going back and listening to all of your podcasts in 2017 and you guys predicted the show death manner of Ramsay! Sure it's Sansa and there's no basilisk blood, but still! Nice one guys!

[@beanfrompa]

It could still have in the books. 😄 I for one hope it happens.

[@pinkwhaleable]

I am so happy that you guys did an episode for Theon! He is one of my favorite characters (second only to Sansa) and has in my opinion the most moving plot line and really holds the essence of the messages GRRM tries to convey throughout the series

[@goatismyname]

Going off of Theon and Harwin being ghosts, it seems that the term ghost applies to people who are believed by most, or all, to be dead, but are very much alive. Ghost = A person who is believed to be deceased, but is still living. That being the case, the term Ghost in Winterfell applies to Mance Raydar as well. Jeyen Poole is also believed to dead. By this definition, there at least 4 ghosts in Winterfell. 1) Theon 2) Harwin 3) Mance 4) Jeyne

[@JoshuaBarnes2298]

if Jon is living second life in Ghost then hes a ghost within a ghost, but hes at the wall not Winterfell lol.

[@kevinmoore4237]

@02:04:00 - If Theon's obsidian-tipped arrow were to kill the leader of The Others (if there is one), it would be a nice parallel to the ring-bearing Gollum bringing about the downfall of Sauron. Theon/Reek reminds me of Smeagol/Gollum in many ways. However, this would also assume that The Others turn out to be pure evil Sauron-esque characters, which I highly doubt.

[@sofiaa1616]

+Kevin Moore I like that parallel. I'm sold. But I don't think this would necessitate for the Others' to be pure evil Sauron-esque characters. While I agree that the Others perhaps aren't "pure evil", I'm still certain that they will be antagonists.

[@kevinmoore4237]

Sublime as always! When you said (@01:38:00) that you surmise the Hooded Man to be "someone Theon believes is dead" and also make the connection to "The Ghost of Winterfell" ... I though "Aha! Septon Chayle!" But your arguments for Harwin are compelling. I think what separates you two from most other theorists is your attention to the tenets of classic literature - the study of which is something that you and GRRM have in common. Your arguments always take into consideration not only the facts given, but the poetic effect that Martin might be seeking to create. Also, you've only just now made me realize the parallel between Arya's "Ghost of Harrenhal" and Theon/Harwin's "Ghost of Winterfell". Now ... back to tinfoil ... I agree that Harwin is unlikely to have killed any of the 5 victims. I think he's laser-focused on his one mission - saving Arya Stark for his Liege Lady. So ironically, Jeyne has been sent two would-be rescuers, operating without knowledge of each other. It's also ironic that Harwin will know instantly that "Arya" is Jeyne and likely that Mance knows at least that this is not the real Arya, given his presence at Winterfell in AGoT. An interesting question I'd like to hear your thoughts on is: "where does Harwin's arc go from here?", given that the object of his mission is now gone and he also may know that it's Jeyne anyway. Finally, while Big Walter seems to be the most likely killer of Little Walter ... returning to the literary approach ... isn't he TOO obvious? Don't we suspect him instantly when we hear about the blood? And finally finally ... do you guys think Septon Chayle is really drowned as originally implied by the text?

[@RadioWesteros]

+Kevin Moore thank you so much, as always! Glad you appreciated the HM theory! If it's indeed Harwin, we suspect there was another objective to his mission, which we'll discuss in a future episode. Ultimately though, we think he'll be heading back to the Riverlands, and LSH, to deliver news about (not)Arya and possibly other things as well. Since you mentioned parallels, it's interesting how many there are between Theon and his foster siblings (we noted a few in the episode) I'm sure there are others to be found, and that it's purposeful. Big Walder being *too* obvious is an objection I used to share. But barring any additional clues, it seems the logical conclusion at the moment. The Miss Marple in me won't rule out a game changing new clue in TWoW though ;) Septon Chayle-- yes. Jojen was right about everything else, and I find the theories of his survival to be mostly farfetched.

[@hartjohnson2975]

Very nice job guys--you brought up a number of ideas that hadn't occurred to me before. I particularly love Arya showing up to turn Ramsay's hounds on him.

[@remurraymd]

Great analysis keep them coming I hope Theon gets his well deserved revenge on Ramsay in WoW.

[@ClareGray]

Won't spoil for your listeners by saying the name but I can really see the rationale behind your theory for the HM identity. Really like your reasoning of "ghost" in the chapter title. One of my favourite chapters in the entire series.

[@sweetyft]

+Clare Gray I agree it's a great theory but I remain partial to the Theon Durden idea.

[@TWard-je6mr]

I'm about halfway through your videos for the 2nd time now and I think Radio Westeros is one of the very best! It is a SHAME and simply wrong that KZbin has demonized you and I hope it gets cleared up. Thank you for the time and effort you put in for us listeners.

[@mazzewhiteley5401]

On your Arya feeds the dogs basilisk blood theory; it would be very poetic for the real Arya to avenge the wrongs done to Jeyne, who was "wearing her face" in a way. There is a strong motivation there for Arya Stark of Winterfell to take back her identity, and for her to do that all of the people involved in the genesis of her fake persona (Cersei, Boltons, Freys) would need to be eliminated

[@btm1]

Great stuff as usual, keep them comin' !

[@maryharrison6948]

Thank you for such a beautiful analysis of the man who learned to know his name the hard way. Beautiful may be an odd term of description considering the sensitive subject material of his arc but it is apt. Well done. The very name Greyjoy hints that any joy in his life will attainted. His prayer to die as Theon and not as Reek is one reason I have come to appreciate his character and not to just hate him. Also when he thinks of Robb, how he should have died with him, and the conversation with Lady Dustin all changed my feelings about him. He's paid the flesh price which could be considered higher than the iron price. Catelyn at one time ponders how much ill could've been avoided had Theon been the one that faced Jaime instead of Lord Karstark's sons. Theon himself wanted to meet him in battle. Given his prowess with the bow, it would indeed have been interesting, especially since Jaime has no love of archers. Any how, brilliant work. Simply love your take on the HM, and all of it.

[@RadioWesteros]

+Mary Harrison thanks so much for that thoughtful comment. So glad you enjoyed our analysis. We found Theon to be one of the most interesting and rewarding characters we've studied, with so much complexity and really the embodiment of many of GRRM's most common themes. After the long journey character, author and readers have taken together in his arc we're really looking forward to seeing what GRRM has in store for him next!

[@maryharrison6948]

+Radio Westeros the readings with the music in the background were so moving. You two should do audio books. You would make reading instructions on how to put a book case together even sound interesting. I was watching The Walking Dead quite awhile back and there was a scene that made me think of Theon. I don't know if you watch it. Michonne is telling Merle, who has rather dubious morals, that true evil is light as a feather. I think it meant that meant that bad people don't have the conscience to regret, or be remorseful, or loathe themselves or their actions, let alone be haunted by it. But Theon feels all of that. Sorry to gush on so I'll say thanks again and cheers to you.I'll be sending some coin your way soon. 📻

[@RadioWesteros]

+Mary Harrison Cheers Mary! Fantastic quote from TWD. Poor Theon is certainly not so "lucky" as that. His inner torment from the moment we gain his PoV is what makes him so fascinating, imo.

[@UAPReportingCenter]

Amazing character profile!!

[@samwisegamgee4659]

I've listened to all your stuff! This was excellently erudite as usual!One thing though: You should have mentioned George's tip-o-the-hat to Shakespeare involving Jojen's dream of the Sea coming to Winterfell.............."...Fear not, till Birnam Wood do come to Dunsinane..." (Macbeth).Yours.

[@Dadecorban]

Whether plate or ring stops an arrow with a particular head is irrelevant. All that is necessary is that jerkin/mail/plate (or combos) may decrease penetration or affect the path of the arrow inside or outside the body enough that the heart does not explode and stop the adult male from slicing the hostage's throat. I don't shoot arrows into men wearing rings very often (ever) so this would require testing, but suffice that it's probably not irrelevant to Rob's thinking. I also find it likely that Rob and Theon reconcile in between chapters. Theon provided Rob the only option that wouldn't necessarily result in a dead Bran, and Rob is smart enough to work this out when he is calm and reflecting. Rob is simply mad that the choice was taken out of his hands. (He's been raised to make these decisions not have them made for him) I apologize if this point has been made I read 3 pages of posts and didn't see it.

[@Dadecorban]

+Titus Veridius So I was listening to this podcast again today, a month later, and I noticed mention of the idea that Theon might have acted correctly to save Bran, related to arrows and plate armor...at around 5 min. I think it's far more likely I missed this the first time rather than the video being edited. Props on research.

[@Dysastyr]

yay! new episode, and its all about theon! today is looking pretty good now :)

[@hambino28]

1:01:50 You guys called RAMSAY'S death by his hounds! ... well at least in the show. Right on guys!!! In the books what do you expect will be his outcome? For me I expect Roose will be much more aware of Ramsay's intentions and will kill him in a way similar to Lysa's death. With Ramsay's being like, " Dad, were you ever going to raise me like the your other son? You thought I wasnt worthy of love, but look at me now. I rule Winterfell and stand on top of the battlements where NO ONE can touch me." Roose is like, "Don't be a fool, I have only loved one son." "Really?" utters Ramsay. "Only Domeric" says Roose in a voice scarce above a whisper as he digs his flaying knife into Ramsay and he tumbles off the tower where Bran fell, only to die slowly with his dogs closing in on his still warm corpse.

[@sweetyft]

Best Monday ever!

[@TheMurphsa1]

You and your extended team/special guests continue to be freakin' awesome!!! I always know where to come to get straight/low down on whatever is or has been written in this epic fantasy... Not a fan in general of Theon character, but like all your previous efforts... you make the character better with your multi-dimensional analysis... Please, please keep it going... How about the woods witch or related story impacting prophecies... I find several very interesting notes from her on Arya POV/chapters... Whatever you choose next, I can't wait to hear it... Keep Rockin' it, Yolkboy and Lady Gwyn!!!!

[@mrIlovethe90s1]

I'VE MISSED YOU BOTH SOOOOOO MUCH!!!!

[@Laurynassi]

You two are awesome! Thank you sooo much ;)

[@HelyneMay]

Thanks again, Radio Westeros. What a great piece of work! I especially love the theorizing about "Theon's ghosts"/the Ghost(s) in Winterfell, the potential of another Prince of Winterfell being present in that chapter, and the thoughts about Theon's end ("the gods are not done with him"). It would be a shame, as you said, for him to just end up as a sacrifice to R'hllor, or even just to have the more merciful end that his sister requested for him from Stannis. If Theon did go to the Wall, he would no longer have the pull in his identity about whether he is more Stark or more Ironborn, he would just be an equal among other men (well, theoretically anyway). More "Winds of Winter" thought below: I have to admit that I am wondering about spoilers from the fan sites about the show, and if they have any bearing on the direction that the book is taking, too. It makes me think, at the very least, that Theon gets away from Stannis' camp alive. (I know, I know, the book may be vastly different, too.) Theon seems like a doomed character, but I hope that his redemptive arc and search for identity and belonging do not just end on a pyre in the snow.

[@RadioWesteros]

+Helyne May so do we! as we said in the episode-- it seems like an awful lot of work to construct a complex character arc to just bring it to an end like that. Fingers crossed for a satisfying resolution in TWoW!

[@fiveheed]

Yay.. finally another show!!!

[@NeoLudditevisons]

Awesome!!! getting listened to throughout the week!

[@fridayyb0y]

this ep with the reek speeches was truly heartbreaking

[@donwitt]

Well may day just got made. I needed this one lol

[@egoborder3203]

great episode!

[@otakuchan883]

yay, my favorite radio!

[@incoref]

Thank you!

[@Dan21278]

epic as always

[@freyamikaelson2867]

Y'all hit a lot of points that that I missed. Theon seems more of a Jesus characters now that I've listened to you're podcast :-)

[@TheCambanks]

Bumping this Theon song in 2019 🐙🔥🐙🔥

[@RadioWesteros]

Cameron Banks Starts at 26:13, one of our favorites!

[@rosamariagarciaguardiola51]

Hi Thank you for your awesome work. I could listen to you non-stop. Would you consider making a video about the figure of ser Arthur Dayne and the possibility or not he could still be alive? Thank you all again. Take care.

[@reachinghigher4259]

I've somehow completely lost the entirety of this original Reek from my memory. I guess I've just seen the TV show version too many times. I don't remember Ramsay showing up for anything at all until long after Theon torched those orphan boys.

[@lynben100]

As I was listening to this, Something in your portrayal of Theon questioning himself. I wondered if Roose Bolton was a party to the Jayne Poole deception or did littlefinger and the Lannisters not let him know of the switch? He might suspect but may have given Theon a role in the wedding hoping he would let the truth slip one way or the other. You couldn't trust Jeyne's/Arya's word after Ramsey had already got his hands on her.

[@fridayyb0y]

I think its insane that u predcited how ramsay died in the show

[@akashika]

I've been listening to this podcast (in order from the oldest episode) for the last few days and I'm sorry to say I've just realised that you're not saying "This is Your Boy from England". Podcast is brilliant btw

[@johnlanouette8611]

I loved it guys, do you think it is possible that at least one of the millers boys could have been Theon's, and so he would be a kinslayer after all?

[@RadioWesteros]

+John Lanouette possibly the younger one, but since there doesn't seem to be any way we'd ever know that for certain we don't see it as a huge plot point, more one of those little ambiguities GRRM likes to leave us gnawing on.

[@UnknownSun556]

Theon: the Mr. Bill of Westeros. "OH NOOOOOOOOO!!!!"

[@ASlapOfAFish]

Thank you..:-)

[@Stephen_Curtin]

Yolkboy and Lady Gwyn. Love the show, but I sorry to point out one error. You say that only the best quality plate armour could stop a broadhead arrow shot from a powerful longbow. This is incorrect. Experiments carried out by the Royal Armouries, Leeds, show that a padded jack, and mail shirt are sufficient protection against powerful bows. Also bows and arrows used for hunting (which is what Theon was doing) are different from those used for war. A war bow would be too powerful, and over-penetrate the animal, and broadhead arrow were also better suited to hunting, where they would cause large bloody wounds. In war pointier arrows were preferred for armour penetration.

[@RadioWesteros]

+Stephen Curtin thanks for the comment! Since Theon was noted to be using a longbow and broadhead at close range, we based our research on that. While it's certain the English longbow equipped with bodkin heads could be said to have driven the use of heavier plate armour in favour of mail in northern Europe during the later Middle Ages, there seems to be some debate about the ability of broadheads to penetrate mail, especially at close range, where the angle could be carefully reckoned -- thus our conclusion that **only** expensive plate could reasonably be counted as protection from such a shot, which the NW deserter was unlikely to be wearing or have access to. So it was a gamble by Theon, but one based upon his greater knowledge and expertise in his weapon of choice.

[@Stephen_Curtin]

Radio Westeros well we might have to agree to disagree, as my understanding of mail and textile armour, is that they were quite good protection against arrows. Also as I said above war bow and hunting bows are two different things. Theon would have been using a hunting bow, which even a heavy hunting bow might have a draw weight of 80-90 lbs. War bows on the other hand would be around 120-150 lbs.

[@RadioWesteros]

+Stephen Curtin perfectly fine! As in any analysis of historical artifacts, considered opinions are bound to differ depending upon the experts one consults ;) At the end of it all we think that what matters is that Theon, who had a greater expertise in the longbow than Robb, was confident in his choice and that Robb's disapproval stung quite badly.

[@Stephen_Curtin]

Radio Westeros I can definitely agree that Robb's disapproval stung, and the Theon was confident that he would hit his target, but I'm not sure whether he taught of what would happen if his arrow didn't instantly kill the deserter, and he had enough time to slit Bran's throat.

[@Felicia_ilana_Zaccaria]

Iim not sure if Theon will be one of the 8 or nine 9 kings but im convinced that by the end of the book the 7 kingdoms will be 7 kingdoms again plus the iron born and river-lands with there own kings

[@SvenTuSventu]

Yay!!!

[@goatismyname]

If Theon; 1) Rid the North of Iron Born. 2) Unseated Euron from the Seastone Chair. 3) Killed Ramsey 4) Joined the Night's Watch. 5) Fired a Dragon Glass tipped arrow into the Night's King. ...that would redeem Theon? ...Yeah, that'll do it.

[@DeamnProd]

represent /r/asoiaf my n-words (nuncles, ayy lmao)

[@ThePeterBluth]

+Jigga2k I see what you did there. Very clever.

[@1Nannamac]

could the millers boy be theons son ?

[@dangerdan2592]

This was a great video as always. But I'm wondering, yall talk about the Gods in asoiaf as if they exist within the story, but I thought that GRRM has said that there are really no gods in his story that truly exist. I could be wrong though.

[@RadioWesteros]

+DangerDan Grrm said that we won't see any Gods in the story. I'm not aware of any interview where he's said Gods don't exist. Whether the Gods are real or not is up to the reader, but the characters in story believe in them. For example, the Old Gods might simply be Greenseers, but have been worshipped as deities by the Northerners.

[@dangerdan2592]

+Radio Westeros Ahhh okay, maybe that's what it was. That the Gods won't make an appearance (or be 100% confirmed). Yeah the people in the story definitely believe they exist, so it goes back to the whole "power resides where men believe it resides" adage from Varys. Their actions are influenced in a very real way whether the Gods themselves are real or not. Thanks for clearing that up! I'm patiently waiting for the next episode and rewatching your older ones. :) take care

[@Fakeshemp184]

Link to the theon song?

[@RadioWesteros]

+Henry Glee here you go-- beigelunatics.bandcamp.com/

[@Fakeshemp184]

+Radio Westeros thank you , you guys are great. Love your podcast :)

[@danburke6568]

How long until the next show?

[@RadioWesteros]

+Dan Burke expect "The North Remembers" sometime in late October, so about four weeks.

[@MoejiiOsmanTV]

+Radio Westeros plz do a Ramsey Bolton one or euron grey joy / Victorian

[@RadioWesteros]

***** Pretty much covered Ramsay in this one, though he might come into future episodes as well. But we will definitely do a Greyjoy episode one day!

[@newpunisherfan1]

Victarion greyjoy the reaver

[@nickmorgan8078]

#FREEYOLKBOY

[@danburke6568]

Thanks again. I can't believe the high standards you two have. My favorite show. Tho i have to say i hate Theon from the start of the books. I'm house Stark, roll on next the book the return of wolves!