RAF CASPS Historic Interview | Group Captain Leonard Cheshire

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In the third of the RAF Centre for Air Power Studies rarely-seen before historic ‘leadership’ themed videos, inspirational wartime leader and world-renowned humanitarian, Group Captain Leonard Cheshire, Baron Cheshire VC OM DSO** DFC is interviewed by Group Captain (later Air Vice-Marshal) Tony Mason CB CBE DL at the RAF Staff College, Bracknell, February 1978. During the interview Group Captain Cheshire discusses his now legendary record of achievements throughout his service during WWII.
Group Captain Cheshire received a commission as a pilot officer in the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve on 16 November 1937. Although he demonstrated considerable prowess in training as a single seat pilot, by a vagary of the system he was destined to be posted to Bomber Command. During the War his command appointments included 76 Squadron, 617 Squadron, and RAF Marston Moor and he was, at one time, the youngest group captain in the RAF. By July 1944 he had completed a total of 102 missions, for which he was awarded the Victoria Cross. His citation simply states: ‘Cheshire displayed the courage and determination of an exceptional leader’. After the war, Cheshire founded the charity Leonard Cheshire Disability and devoted the remainder of his life to pursuing humanitarian ideals. His obituary in the Independent (1992) declares that ‘LEONARD CHESHIRE was one of the most remarkable men of his generation, perhaps the most remarkable’.
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[@johncrispin2118]

The perfect Englishman,integrity personified, don’t we need more like him now !

[@twentyrothmans7308]

It's a privilege to listen to this courageous and principled gentleman. I hope that his name is never forgotten.

[@elviramcintosh9878]

"No one ever came back on three engines. And that was suspicious" A practical mind, he took the plane up and deliberately stalled her. A genius if ever there was one. Thanks for this program. It is good to think that men like Cheshire were at once 'down-to-earth' and conscious of technicalities that needed addressing urgently. Thanks for reminding us that 'common-sense' is not all that common. Greetings from Australia.

[@blueshound9036]

A great man. I contribute monthly to Leonard Cheshire Homes as a small way of supporting him. Hero.

[@dr.jayamoitra9815]

I feel myself indeed very lucky to be a part of the movement founded by Capt. Leonard Cheshire, the Cheshire Home for the underprivileged people of the world. He is a real Human Being, a great Seer, a Philanthropist, a man with high moral values and many more. Kudos to him... 🙏👍

[@jules2545]

What a man. When I was a boy Leonard Cheshire and Sue Ryder visited our school in Suffolk to talk about their lives and charitable work. Unfortunately the significance of these people was lost on an eight year old, not now though.

[@LadyBlanche.888]

One of our great but quiet heroes! He was a good man all his life. Thank you for this gem!

[@jamesross1799]

This man is an absolute legend a great humanitarian and an all round lovely bloke.

[@paulbutterworthbillericay]

That was excellent, & I'm so glad they captured these interviews when they did, definitely the right man for the job at that time fascinating

[@missasinenomine]

What an excellent interviewer. Polite & soft spoken.

[@peterrebelwithoutamenopaus6962]

I read where Harris (head of RAF Bomber Command) took away his marker pathfinder Mosquitos. So he arranged with a nearby US airbase to "borrow" a Mustang. It arrived crated. His ground crew assembled it during the day while Cheshire "perused" the manual. He hadn't flown a single engined craft since 1936, and certainly not any powerful fighter. He got in, no test flight, and took off at night, overtook the Lancaster main force, and successfully marked the target and returned. Surely one of the greatest flying achievements in the history of air warfare. I didn't realise that he mentions the above story in this interview. In a very matter of fact way as well.

[@tonyjennings1025]

His contribution to the war effort was truly astonishing. But it is the nature and character of the man that I most admire. His mission to acquire the Mosquito as a pathfinder was one that he knew was vital and he did it with 15 minutes of petrol left. I've read his books his courage knew no bounds.

[@kristiandrmic2595]

Imam 2 čokolade od toga nagledao i da sam

[@stephenvince9994]

I have not seen or heard a finer example of courage. Grp Capt Cheshire as good as we get, in my view.

[@samrodian919]

What a great yet humble man. You can see the almost reverence of the interviewer who was a Wing Commander himself and the deference he showed Group Captain Cheshire, by calling him Sir every time as if he was still a serving RAF officer. But I think the greatest reverence was to the recipient of the Victoria Cross and all he did to deserve it. It was awarded not for just one brave heroic act but for four years of toil almost nightly and for doing more than three tours on operations (60 trips ) I commend everyone who has not read Paul Brickhill's book "The Dam Busters" to do so. It gives an edifying portrait of the man, not just in his RAF life, but what he started for others after the war was over. Rest in peace Leonard Cheshire, you went above and beyond, not once but almost every time he sat in a pilots seat on operations. It makes me proud to be English, just to say I am from the same country as this great Englishman.

[@andrewkidd2021]

Group Captain.

[@CP-sy9cd]

I understood that he did 4 tours and a total of 100 operational flights

[@anthropoid2405]

Agreed, a humble and honest man.

[@TS-mo6pn]

Incredible story. A truly great man. Thank you, RAF, for publishing this.

[@PeterSmith-bj4ml]

He did 100 ops, 4 tours, and was then permanently grounded by Harris, head of Bomber Command and awarded the VC. When he was base commander later, he didn't need to go on ops but he did. Often commanders went on milk runs (relatively safe trips to France or mine laying) but Cheshire always went on the most dangerous, Berlin or the Ruhr etc and always with new crews to help them. New crews were of course far more likely to die on the first couple of missions. He more or less said that you had to have luck as well. Earlier he took his pathfinder Mosquito down to 200 feet over Munich in the middle of flak while the main force were bombing above, to check the effect. Then he founded the homes after the war and became a pacifist. A great great man.

[@mookie2637]

The accounts of his missions in the official BC war diaries are absolutely hair-raising.

[@GoodOlTimesOnlyGayer]

One of the greatest men of Britain in the 20th century. His service to others was wonderful..

[@stewartw.9151]

Apparently the Catholic church is trying to have him canonised as a Saint.

[@suzyqualcast6269]

Cheshire Homes.

[@chrismurray3103]

A good and gentle man. Understated. Inspirational.

[@cirrus1964]

a Hero, during the war, and after!

[@zeevjabotinsky]

A fascinating interview. What an astonishingly impressive person this man was. I listened again recently to the part at 14.00 where he talks about how he took up the Halifax and deliberately stalled it to see why no-one ever came back on three engines. And how he just about managed to get it out of the stall and identified the problem. But how the fault was only rectified when a test pilot was killed trying the same thing. No words, really. 'They weighed so lightly what they gave.'

[@ShevillMathers]

Incredible responsibility at age 25, thrown in at the deep end with all the anxieties of someone that age due to lack of experience and training plus flying missions in aircraft barely able to perform its tasks. So quietly understated, a wonderful man in every respect. Appropriate that the interviewer was also the same rank, Group Captain. During my short term in the RAF Medical Branch, my first posting to RAF Hospital Wegberg, Germany in 1956, it gave me many opportunities to visit so many of the towns and cities these men only saw from the air. I worked with former aircrew who had re-mustered to the medical branch. Talking with them and to many locals on my travels , it gave me a greater insight of the devastation and fruitless pursuit that war on this scale is. I salute you all for brave and outstanding service. 🇬🇧🇦🇺

[@billy2rivers1]

My uncle freddy watts flew Lancaster's under sir Leonard cheshire. He told his daughter rosemary that he was the finest pilot he ever knew and always looked after his crew.

[@theshepherd9382]

Thank you for sharing this on KZbin!

[@bodieofci5418]

A legendary and humble man. RIP sir. In one of Graham Hill's books he tells of how he had to give a speech on courage with Mr Cheshire watching him. He said I couldn't think of anything that was worthwhile with such a man there. Says it all really.

[@andrewwebb-trezzi2422]

One of the bravest men of the Second World War. His name should be more known. Thank you.

[@FlyingPhilUK]

www.leonardcheshire.org/

[@suedick4339]

@@FlyingPhilUK9

[@292Nigel]

I've never heard of him.

[@sailormanoyster1849]

My fil was a rear gunner on that 1st 1000 bomber op plus nieeenburg raid

[@mustanglimey]

Fantastic to listen to and watch. Amazing man. God bless you sir.

[@boatfaceslim9005]

A born leader of men. A razor sharp mind and the courage of a lion. An extraordinary man.

[@naoakiooishi6823]

It is my privilege to be able in this time 2024 to listen to somebody who experienced things unimaginable to us living in the today`s world.

[@crustyoldfart]

This whole piece is a delight, Cheshire is a profoundly decent man, and evidently a leader of the highest quality, even leaving aside his demonstrated coolness and bravery in the face of mortal danger. The fact that he subsequently did important charity work which proved to be of lasting importance is modestly, not mentioned. The interviewer [ a Group Captain himself ] has clearly done his homework and was respectful throughout and mercifully, made no attempt to interrupt, or, like far too many interviewers, try to impress us, The only adverse comment, teetering on the edge of farce, was that the interviewer consistently displayed about one inch of bare leg above the top of his sock.

[@mookie2637]

A great companion piece to the Harris interview. Cheshire was instrumental in improving Bomber Command's accuracy, using experience, innovation and sheer bravery; and frequently in the face of Harris's objections. He would frequently carry out more passes than he needed, at very significant persomal risk, to give civilians a chance to get away. His famous Mustang mission in June 1944 - the first time he had ever flow a Mustang (and this is at night) - led to three direct Tallboy hits, for no losses.

[@anthropoid2405]

Admirable human being, honest, humble and brave. The best of British, God bless his soul.

[@johnbright1185]

What a remarkable and modest man! A most fascinating interview of one of the heroes of WW2 JB

[@simonhellier7281]

A very impressive man. Humble. His achievements speaks for themselves. I was thrilled to learn I attended the same college at university- at least something I share with him!

[@Richs_reef]

What an absolute legend, both in wartime and in peace

[@alexandradane3672]

A video to be saved and treasured. Thank you.

[@nickjung7394]

A brave, humble, self critical, honest man!

[@christopher-ke9nj]

The Group Captain awarded the VC among other things for survival of not just one tour over enemy territory but, how many? the crews were so bloody raw God knows where they bought it, 55,000 God rest them. We will remember them

[@tonyfranks9551]

Thank you.

[@billy2rivers1]

My uncle freddy watts dfc and bar was on those raids he was a Lancaster pilot under Leonard cheshire.

[@JustMe00257]

What a man! Words fall short.

[@belfastlad55]

Amazing man .

[@stratac30]

What a wonderful interview and man.

[@bobg1069]

A true hero, the best Bomber Pilot and Bomber Commander that WW2 produced, bar none.

[@sailormanoyster1849]

Thank you captivating interview

[@andrewmacdonald4833]

Quite a man...I'd have no hesitation following him...

[@FelixRigg]

Thanks so much for posting this. Wow.

[@stephenhathaway269]

Wonderful interview.

[@Andrewhicks-t4i]

A British military legend of WW2.

[@tonykeith76]

Great video.. Thank you RAF

[@tiamatxvxianash9202]

An except of the thanksgiving victory service in St Paul's Cathedral in London on August 19, 1945..........”The Archbishop of Canterbury called the service an affirmation of faith but he said it was also a prayer for cleansing. We had fought for the light against spiritual darkness but in doing so we had to enter the darkness ourselves and use the powers of darkness” Indeed an apt statement for those who led the “many" like Cheshire, Gibson, Martin and others. For into the darkened abyss of perilous skies they flew; often alone with just the flickering stars of light in the heavens above them as their only “2nd dickie” Myself and my colleagues who served the colors on the flight lines and flight decks, would have been proud to have been one of the “Cheshire Cats”. Yet we were blessed by being taught and led by those whom were descendants of his “litter”. “Leonard's cats are still about. And they only carry light. For in darkness they pierce better. And shall never fear the might”

[@RadioMartyT1B]

Humility and courage.

[@dangerousdavecox]

I met his son and daughter. He died in a village named Cavendish a d is buried with his wife Sue Ryder. They are surrounded by survivors of concentration camps who they nurses after the war. Incredible man, who sadly died of MND. I videoed his grave a few months ago, it's on my KZbin somewhere

[@john07973]

Top man

[@joejoe2928]

VETERAN SCOTS GUARDS*** "READ HIS AUTOBIOGRAPHY IT'S AN INCREDIBLE AWESOME STORY OF EXTREME VALOUR AND BOUNDLESS COURAGE..**VETERAN SCOTS GUARDS**********************"

[@Firebrand55]

British sang froid at it's best....and an example of why we won WW2; ( with Allied assistance I hasten to add! ).

[@normannokes9513]

When commander of 76 squadron to ensure greater efficiency and air crew survival he took the trouble to learn the name of every man on the base.

[@kaythomas5884]

Now I know why our teachers at high school in the sixties insisted on us say 'sir'. They had served in the RAF bombers. They also had a strong belief in God, like Cheshire!

[@melmo5218]

I met him when I was an ATC cadet and I helped him park his car. He was extremely polite with me and I was tongue-tied, unfortunately.

[@BLOWN8CYLINDER]

A true legend 👍

[@stephenhathaway269]

Fascinating Halifax anecdote... could help better explain why the aircraft my grandfather navigated, crashed just after dropping their final supply drop in central France 1943 with 161 special ops squadron

[@jamesross1799]

Lofty taught this man how to survive.

[@joejoe2928]

LEONARD CHESHIRE WAS A COMMITED CHRISTIAN....WHO WALKED THE WALK, AND TALKED THE TALK....!!

The Cheshire cat!

[@mpsymonds1]

Typical British. Understating at his finest.

[@anthonygowing4041]

What 🐿️

[@andyb.1026]

Why is some desk Jockey, and not a Pilot interviewing Cheshire

[@hughgrection4205]

He is an excellent interviewer, does it matter if he is pig herder

[@harryplummer6356]

Just what are you saying. The interviewer is a Group Captain with I gather many hours of flying. Why do you focus on that - Christ grab a life and try and see the big picture.

[@bertiewooster3326]

Simple to answer, a Jet jockey would be in capable of extracting the answers .I know as a former jet jockey !

[@andyb.1026]

@@harryplummer6356 the interviewer is clearly Not jockey

[@andyb.1026]

@@bertiewooster3326 as a former Rigger, I know exactly what you mean 😁😊😇

[@MarkH10]

If you'll repost this with a usable sound level, I'd appreciate it. Not everyone is sitting in a library. This is unusable in public.

[@dafyddmanton2981]

I don't wish to appear a smartie-pants, but had you thought of headphones?

[@XxBloggs]

Turn the volume up

[@usamaiqbal3106]

A legendary and humble man. RIP sir. In one of Graham Hill's books he tells of how he had to give a speech on courage with Mr Cheshire watching him. He said I couldn't think of anything that was worthwhile with such a man there. Says it all really.