Railway Roundabout 1958 'Operation of the Lickey incline'

Continuing from the last clip, here we see how banking duties and the like are operated on the Lickey incline.
Coming up next, the first of 3 featured branch lines, starting with the Halesowen
All footage copyright by their respective owners

[@1258-Eckhart]

In those days, bankers did a respectable job.

[@2112pk]

I don't know, those 94xxs look like they might be embezzling something

[@Isochest]

My favourite Bankers: They call them Helpers in the US!!

[@Renato-ix1nz]

@@Isochest im more a fan of big bertha

[@brianfoster7794]

Used to live by Blackwell Station and spent a lot of time watching the trains on the incline just about remember big Bertha she was a big beastie have never seen such a powerful locomotive as she was, she could out pull four shunters with ease , love the video brings back fond memories.

[@Utubearchy]

A top quality video! Not a moment passes without pertinent audio/video information throughout from beginning to end. Quite a treat for one's interest and mind. I could feast on those caliber videos. Five stars.

[@Isochest]

Looks like brilliant TV for UK citizens in 1958!!!

[@Mandalorian_Goblinslayer]

Isochest yeah it does, I love reading about old history of United Kingdom 🇬🇧👍

[@sanjeevpereira6765]

Great footage

[@chubeye1187]

I had a pole like they were using, I found it on my allotment. I wondered what it could have been used for.

[@thebrummierailenthusiasts5329]

As of today the signal box at Blackwell is now gone completely and so has the station and today bromsgrove is now the new terminus of the cross city line

[@None-zc5vg]

One hand-braked fuel-train ran out of control down a steep bank outside Chester in the early '70s: the signalman diverted it into an empty bay platform and the resulting non-fatal fire caused massive damage to that end of Chester General Station.

[@None-zc5vg]

@Alexander Challis A recent runaway train accident in Canada wrecked a town and burned to death many people who lived near the line: it cast doubt on the robustness of the fuel-wagons used and, more obliquely, on the integrity of a veteran rail-company boss who had headed the firm that took of much of the B.R. freight business after privatisation (he was regarded as an industry saviour (instead of a hatchet-man/cost-cutter) by the British railway press.

[@jackx4311]

@@None-zc5vg If you're talking about Ed Burkhardt, he really WAS the saviour of rail freight in Britain, forcing the Ministry of Transport to get off their bloody stupid idea of splitting rail freight into three seperate companies - "to encourage competition" - when everyone knew that the railways already HAD competition from road transport. Burkhardt did a great job, and gained the respect of plenty of railwaymen. He set EWS up so that they charged the Royal Mail a very low rate - low enough that no competitors could undercut EWS on price, and Royal Mail had no incentive to look elsewhere, but that Royal Mail work was right across the rail network, all year round, and was their bread and butter money, covering all their basic costs and giving a small profit. Other, more intermittent work could be charged at a much higher rate, and brought in the 'jam on top'. What happened? Bloody stupid and GREEDY directors and shareholders decidec that they weren't making enough from Royal Mail, so forced Burkhardt out, and appointed a replacement who promptly walloped up prices to RM. Result? Royal Mail bosses started shopping around for lower prices elsewhere, the higher prices EWS started charging them gave competitors a chance to under cut them. Eventually, EWS were bought out by the German railway company Deutsche Bahn. Re. the Lac-Mégantic disaster; what astonishes me is the sheer irresponsibility of the Transport Canada, who had NO regulations preventing a train being left, unattended, on a main line, and in taking NO action on what they knew was a dangerous situation for years before AND after the disaster. Even more astonishing was the offical statement from the Canadian Transportation Agency, saying that "issues regarding public safety were none of its concern"!

[@jackx4311]

Yes - it was (effectively) an unfitted train, but only because both driver and guard were recklessly incompetent and lazy. Though the train included four 35 ton and one 45 ton vacuum-braked tank wagons, which were intended to be used as a fitted head, the guard did NOT couple their brakes to the loco, and did NOT carry out the prescribed brake test. The driver knew that he had no fitted head connected, yet set off down the bank from Mickleover with only 38 tons of braking force at his disposal instead of the 123 tons which the fitted head would have given him - though he admitted at the inquiry that he knew a train of 980 tons should have had at least 97 tons of braking force to go down the bank.

[@Isochest]

I am amazed Victorian practices such as manual brake pegging happened in 1958.

[@jackx4311]

The problem that British Railways were up against was that the majority of railway wagons were 'private owner' wagons - belonging to mines, quarries, factories, etc, which used them to transport their products. The reason this system was set up was that the early railways were plagued with customers keeping their wagons for days or weeks until they got round to unloading them - which meant the railway couldn't use those wagons for other customers. So the Railway Clearing House set standards to which private owner wagons had to be built - and their use meant the owners could leave them idle in sidings as long as they wanted without holding up other companies' goods. The downside was that private owners wanted their wagons built as cheap as possible, and weren't willing to pay for wagons with vacuum or air brakes - and even by the 1930s were telling the railways that if they were forced to pay for such brakes to be fitted to their wagons, they'd scrap them and send their goods by road instead. So the railways were caught between a rock and a hard place. HTH

[@Isochest]

@@jackx4311 That is crap! Perhaps the Government needed to oblige this cargo to go by train!

[@peterforden5917]

shunter applied brakes...bloody lethal..

[@jackx4311]

Yep - now we don't have shunters pinning down brakes; we have people getting killed in multiple pile-ups, because one vehicle breaks down on a 'smart' motorway, and there's no hard shoulder to pull onto - and all because some d1ckh3ad politicians decided 'smart' motorways were a smart way to save money.

[@Tavothelms2mt]

1:25 the jinty's are helping the black 5

[@spencers5898]

One thing I couldn't figure out- how would the banker(s) on the leading train be cleared out of the way in time for the following train to the pass the box? Was there enough time to reverse it onto the down line? Or did it wait in a siding for the following train to pass?

[@andrewsewell9179]

Wonderful memories

[@timosha21]

Chuga choo choo! I'm a train and I approve this video :D

[@railyatri8891]

Nice old videos sir

[@johnroddis6418]

Fantasia on a theme of British sea songs 1907 version

[@gabrieloliveiravargas8268]

cara bom documentario like para voce

[@Isochest]

Estou do acordo consigo

[@danielwalker2613]

Could anyone tell me what the 7-9 means on the wagon side at 3:19 please ? .... There is another shot at 3:36 with a wagon showing 7-7. ..... Thank you

[@kiwitrainguy]

I'm pretty sure those numbers indicate the unloaded (Tare) weight of the wagon. The first figure is tons (Long Tons) and the second figure would be Hundredweight. There are 112 pounds in a Hundredweight and 20 Hundredweight in a ton.

[@jackx4311]

@@kiwitrainguy - yep; that was the tare weight of the wagon, in Imperial tons and hundredweights.

[@michaelnaisbitt1639]

Was a different route ever considered being built in an effort to reduce the 1 in 37 gradient. It might have been longer but maybe the need for bankers would have been reduced. Just a thought

[@brianfoster7794]

Too many politicians had shares in the LNER and GWR in 1800s so they viewed the LMS as unwanted and undesirable competition they were given a route to follow even when they applied for a route change they had been turned down and told that is the only route, it was exactly the same with the Ribblehead viaduct. Despite all the crap that was thrown at them they grew to be the largest with more lines and routes throughout the uk than any other railway company I have an old framed LMS map that’s 4’6” x 3’ that shows all the Railway Tracks across the country if a quarter of them exist now that’s about it, That’s the reason why they had a few bad gradients to contend with, sorry the reply is so long but it wasn’t easy for them when they were growing and didn’t have the right people on their side. Regards Brian.

[@michaelnaisbitt1639]

Brian Foster Thank you for the information Brian it was most informative. I guess even back then it was just like today with politicians stuffing their pocket with money to the detriment of railway development. I enjoyed the video and just wondered why they took that route Now I know. Thanks again

[@rossbrazier661]

Yes actually there was another route built to avoid the Lickey incline. The branch line from Barnt Green to Redditch is still open however it now terminates at Redditch. It used to go right out to Ashchurch near Tewkesbury where it rejoined the main line. Sadly the Redditch to Ashchurch line closed in the 60's robbing many communities of their railway service.

[@jackx4311]

@@brianfoster7794 - Brian, neither the LNER nor the LMS existed until the Grouping of 1923. The reason the line was laid up the Lickey Bank was nothing to do with "share-holding politicians"; the original planned route would have had a max. gradient of 1 in 300, but in order to avoid having to purchase expensive land around Worcester, Droitwich, and Tewksbury, it was so long and winding that it was far tooo expensive. Although the chosen route, via the Lickey Bank, called for banking engines, the cost of providing the few engines required was far outweighed by the savings on building the line.

[@jackx4311]

@@michaelnaisbitt1639 - unfortunately, Brian Foster's explanation was wrong. For starters, neither the LNER nor the LMS existed until the Grouping of 1923. The reason the line was laid up the Lickey Bank was nothing to do with "share-holding politicians"; the original planned route would have had a max. gradient of 1 in 300, but in order to avoid having to purchase expensive land around Worcester, Droitwich, and Tewksbury, it was so long and winding that it was far too costly. Although the chosen route, via the Lickey Bank, called for banking engines, the cost of providing the few engines required was far outweighed by the savings on building the line. HTH

[@G0IMB]

The traffic density was high as it still is. I'd love car making traffic to return to the levels we had when Longbridge was in full swing. Perhaps after Brexit car makers will be forced to produce vehicles here for at least our domestic market. I remember 47s hauling rakes of goods vans on this line in the early 90's and this would be good high revenue goods traffic.

[@Satters]

i dont think the policicos want joe public to afford cars, and with all the railways that were closed in the 60s, travel is going to be nigh on impossible for the working class

[@billpugh58]

@@Satters Brexit has damaged the car industry due to JOT deliveries being far more difficult

[@jerribee1]

How did the bankers synchronise their speed so that they weren't actually being pulled by the leading locomotive and that they weren't going so fast that they caused wagons to derail?

[@jackx4311]

The bankers weren't coupled up to their trains, so they couldn't be pulled by the train engine. The banker engine was nowhere near powerful enough to accelerate the tail end of the train sufficiently to derail a wagon. As long as the banker driver and his fireman kept their engine working hard, that would keep the banker buffered up to the tail of train, with the sheer weight of train being enough to prevent the banker going any faster than the train engine. HTH.

[@Planefan1000]

Is that a Great Western pannier tank helping out an LMS Black 5 in the beginning?

[@spencers5898]

This was well into BR days- I believe the Lickey had been transferred to the Western Region by this time. A handful of 9400 Class Panniers were allocated to it.

[@Isochest]

Those mixed goods trains accelerated rapidly out of Bromsgrove station. It would be nice if NR could use an Electric Banker now Bromsgrove and the Lickey are wired

[@Satters]

if only things were that simple on the privatised railways

[@Isochest]

@@Satters Agreed!

[@kevincook7524]

One question. Why don't the have late BR crests on them?

[@bravedan]

The Unicycling Lion crest only changed to a heraldic Ferret and Dartboard symbol in 1956. It would have taken many years for all locos to be changed, and some never were.

[@thomasrengel5577]

Cost, plus I've been told there was some "resistance" to Nationalisation among the employees as in keeping up the old colours.

[@robobkerman4922]

Are thos jinties banking the train?

[@BrakeCoach]

Robob Kerman its possibly a GWR 94xx class pannier tank.

[@BrakeCoach]

Robob Kerman and yes, two jinties can bank it.

[@Bigbigpoopi]

2:05 Duck spotted

[@sameyers2670]

Who is doing the commentary on these videos?

[@jackx4311]

Most of the commentaries were done by Peter Woods, but Patrick Whitehouse did some, too. Both men were very knowledgable about railways and their operation.

[@argenvia2]

Cute old video, which is the reason that both passenger and freight trains must be helped by small steamers?? greeting gustavo

[@richbaldwin-lee4910]

..Doesn't matter what brakes either type of train has, ... if they are too heavy for the gradient, they need assistance

[@peterforden5917]

+argenvia2 its a very steep incline which meant trains needed help in steam days.

[@traincaboose9355]

peter forden not just days of steam, even now diesels sometimes require a back engine or break down on the incline.

[@pmonkeygeezer6212]

Train Caboose 935 0:40 "The signalman pulls off... " Disgusting, jizzing on the job like that!

[@Isochest]

@@traincaboose9355 Yes diesels need a helper/banker to this day!

[@geoffreylee5199]

Bankers must be pushers ...

[@erical6338]

I know what they are because of TTTE. Edward and and on one occasion Duck for Henry, are bankers on Sodor.

[@jacob2954]

Shame the old banker was scrapped

[@terrariafanthefloran]

Jacob the starbridge 14xx Yeah.

[@longlivethecanadianking]

The Midland Railway No. 2290/22290/58100 Big Bertha and LNER U1 No.2395/9999/69999

[@Mandalorian_Goblinslayer]

Just another lad on the internet. Yeah I really them sort of steam trains 😢😢💔💔

[@erical6338]

I'm not British and am reliant on stories like TTTE for British railway knowledge, including the origins of the TRS/TTTE stories.

[@geoffcook9518]

You;:

[@rakariehanniyaz7340]

Like thomas and henry pulling experess 😂😂😂😂

[@johnroddis6418]

Fantasia on a theme of British sea songs 1907 version

[@erical6338]

I think it was Edward and Henry, when Henry was let out of his tunnel. That's my childhood you're talking about. The only one of my shows I dreamed about. I had 2 TTTE dreams as a kid, as I remember and each one was a video my mind created. One was about Duck and one was about a character named Horse that only existed in my dream.