Ram Promaster Pentastar Tick What DOESN'T cause it! What does. Debate Settled!

[@richardspurgeon2215]

When you first hear the ticking noise. Run the van hard for a hour, park it in some tall dry grass and walk away. Nothing really lost

[@davidyule3605]

Spread the word about this channel. I’m no mechanic, but I love to learn about the inner workings of the Promaster.

[@promastersonly1419]

As someone who isn't necessarily going to be wrenching on the van yourself, I'm always keen for feedback as to what you might find interesting in the videos. My goal is for people not to get hosed by mechanics, and to have knowledge of their vans. Pure knowledge won't be very engaging for a non-wrenching watcher, so I try to make them at least slightly interesting or entertaining. Your feedback is important to me.

[@davidyule3605]

@@promastersonly1419 Even though I'm a "non-wrencher," I am keenly interested in learning how things work. I've already learned so much that will help me not get hosed by any mechanic. I see so much negativity about Promasters. And then I see you, with a couple of these beasts with over 600,000 miles! and of course I realize they've been maintained and rebuilt, but still... My van is pretty heavy as it's been built into a swanky camper, so I drive it carefully and run synthetic oil, etc. Knock on wood, but I've yet to have an issue... even my headlights work all the time.

[@oneadVANtureatatime]

We agree David! What a great channel this is.

[@rogerz8051]

Very informative Kip. The Academy thanks you for your service and contributions to Promaster owners everywhere!

[@promastersonly1419]

Ha!

[@geraldc867]

The lack of sludge after 500k says that someone was giving this engine regular oil changes most of its recent life. The oil detergents were still good when it was changed.

[@raybeers9761]

Thanks for the fantastic video Kip!!! And thank you for allowing me to pick your brain through messenger. The tic isn't specific to the Pentastar, but also afflicts the 5.7L Hemi. So you're probably on to something with metallurgy. Some anecdotal opinion of mine is change oil far more frequently than what the computer tells you to (which should be around every 7,500 miles). I follow the manuals severe duty change schedule of every 4K miles with Penzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-20. The tick hit my Pentastar at 238K miles where most people gets hit at around 100K or slightly less miles.

[@geraldc867]

Lots of respect for your diagnosis and opinion here. Something I would do is check/test the oil passages for clogging/buildup/flow issues. The Promaster forums refer to engineers that worked on the Pentastar identifying that dry areas occur in the upper part of the engine when RPMs are low for extended periods. The suggestion is that the Pentastar engine was made to get full throttle daily to improve oil distribution (I assume not redline but at least some RPMs up past the 3k-4k range once in a while) This is truly fascinating that you have a 500k mile Pentastar, and your theory on poorly treated needle bearings makes sense, but also could be aggravated by poor oil circulation. It would be interesting to look at RAM statistics to see if various valves in the Pentastar are more or less likely to develop the tick.

[@promastersonly1419]

I remember that post. Seem to recall I tried to get in contact with that guy but couldnt. To date, there is no pattern to which cyl develops the tick. It can be any of them. That combined with the fact that for any valve that fails, there’s another an inch a way that didnt tells me its not oil related. We see 500k engines every day.

[@ontheropeshc]

Kip you damn wizard. Some of the best content on KZbin is right here on your channel. Better watch out or the Fiat Men In Black will be knockin on your door soon! “Hey you didn’t see nothin’” hahahhaha

[@fxbaby3485]

They should have a recall on this serious talk

[@promastersonly1419]

There's been talk about that since day one, and I'm convinced nothing would ever come of it. Even in the best case, Chrysler would prorate the cost of replacement based on mileage, and probably define the service life of the engine at 100k.

[@gypsy1962]

My 2020, Promaster, 3500, has 496,789 original miles. I will be having the rockers & lifters serviced in several days. With a balance of approximately 4K, I'm hoping to pay off my van and get at least 700,000 + miles out of the motor. 😅

[@promastersonly1419]

@@gypsy1962 i am confident you will!

[@timjd7964]

Love your videos man.

[@oldskooldriver9379]

Not all splash oiled areas inside the engine get the same amount of splashed oil. It would be interesting to see if other Pentatickers are evenly distributed among all valves/rockers/cam lobes.

[@promastersonly1419]

I've followed this problem since I bought my first van in 2014. It's basically random, at least from annecdotal mentions of it on the forum and elsewhere. To make things even more confusing, the first run of Pentastars in 2011 had a defect in the left side head (front, even numbered cyls) where it would eat valves. That problem has long since been solved, but it repeatedly and maliciously gets blamed by dealers, who love to say "they all do that" followed by "you need a new cylinder head for $4000".

[@mtransport2144]

500k wow that's something. No point fixing it just drive till it dies.!!!!!! Wonder how many transmission that van had in he's life?

[@promastersonly1419]

That van is on its original trans.

[@djsarg7451]

A ram engineer wrote "0W20 was picked for the Engine Pentastar to get better gas mileage, at the cost of the heads". To make your head last use 0W-30 100% Synthetic Motor Oil as 0W20 is too thin for the heads. If you hear tick noise stop and get your heads fixed before they fail and take out the engine. It was not designed for 0W20! (I agree the was good for the miles on this engine).

[@promastersonly1419]

Pointed you here from another video. Oil ISN’T the cause of the rocker failure. Aside from the evidence provided in this video, FCA released a revised rocker in 2019, and to date we have never seen those rockers fail regardless of mileage, yet we are still using the identical pennzoil 5w-20.

[@blipblop92]

I got a 2023 promaster that calls for 0W20, should I be using 5w20 instead??

[@djsarg7451]

@@blipblop92 Is it in warranty? What RAM users are saying in warranty use RAM called for oil. Out of warranty go a little heavier. As gas cost less than a valve job.

[@tkpk5119]

How about those that claim dry start is the fundamental issue? I do “full flood” crank the engine 2x for 5-6 seconds after van has sat for more than a week or two. Not goings as far as putting in the Baxter remote oil filter though.

[@promastersonly1419]

Personally, I don't think it's necessary and this video proves it - if it was an oil starve issue, why does one rocker fail and the other right next to it not fail? Both should, if either was starved of oil. The flood clear mode crank is a great way to rest assured it has oil pressure - WITHOUT having to buy a damn thing!

[@HERMIZ-ClassB-RV-Promaster2500]

Great proof. Q: Have you made a video on how to change the rocket arms? No tick here :) Thank you! 🙏🏻

[@promastersonly1419]

If you type "Motorcity mechanic pentastar rockers" you'll find a multipart video that is far better than any video I could make.

[@HERMIZ-ClassB-RV-Promaster2500]

@@promastersonly1419 Thank you so much, as always. Wishing you and yours a blessed holiday season and new year. 🙏

[@AwakeningProcedure]

The ultimate video goodness thank you. I’ve decided to just change out what’s broken with oem parts. Every other option seemed like it was a waist of money or would have me putting in too many after market parts into my valve train

[@promastersonly1419]

Excellent plan. If you search youtube for "Motor City Mechanic 3.6 Rocker Arm" you'll find a 2 part video that's by far the best in showing you how to do the job. Follow it and you can't go wrong.

[@AwakeningProcedure]

Can the bank one valve cover be removed even tho it’s so close to the firewall in the back of the engine? I’m going to try tomorrow with some really small tools lol

[@promastersonly1419]

@@AwakeningProcedure Yes. The key is to remove the oval airbox thingy, then there’s plenty of room. On the rear valve cover, you need to remove the cam sensor and pcv valve, but you do not need to remove the two cam solenoids to get the valve cover off - lift the cover a bit to the left as you remove it.

[@AwakeningProcedure]

@@promastersonly1419 thanks Kip! I managed to remove the rear bank 1 valve cover head and luckly without having to remove the air dam🙏🏻 upon inspection and wiggling the rockers all around everything actually looks great inside. I definitely think the pcv valve needed to be changed after inspection. Not as much because of the bearing but because of the inside seal being so stretched out. Lol On the pcv valve side of the engine I noticed a pinky finger sized about of sludge accumulated in the (I guess from where I was standing) back right corner. The rest of it looks golden. Not like those horror story’s where it’s black. Could this maybe have been from the pcv needing changed? The valve cover also has sticky sludge like oil on mostly the cylinder 3 and 5 side of it.

[@timjd7964]

Smart guy

[@josephstecki211]

Awesome explanation...🤨

[@Suncoastrealestatemedia]

I had the famous tick in my 2014 Jeep Wrangler, they replaced all the lifter, rockers and cam shafts, then told me I needed a new engine, since the main bearings were bad. I don’t know where they go that from, the oil pressure is within normal range when driving. I was also supposedly leaking oil, I’ve yet to locate said oil leak. I bought some UV dye, so we’ll see.

[@promastersonly1419]

What would a bad bearing look like, if the engine has oil pressure and is still running ok? Is the symptom losing oil?

[@MichaelCook1981]

I have a couple check engine lights, from the repairs p0017, p2638,c121c. I dropped the upper oil pan, remove the windage tray, and took off on of the rod bearing caps, it looked pretty much brand new. I guess I could have checked the main bearing as well, but I figured if the rod bearing is fine, I don’t see any reason the main bearing would be bad. I haven’t found any leaks, I went ahead and replaced the oil pump since my Jeep has 128,000 miles on it, since you have to drop the oil pan to get to it. I don’t hear any noises, from my understanding you’d hear something if you have bad bearings, and the engine would have probably would have locked up by now. I’ve had the tick for probably 2 years now. I have a hard time trusting people that charge $750 for a cam shaft. They quoted me at first $9700 to fix the rockers and lifters. I told them I’d buy the parts from a dealership that’s a hr away. I paid $1200 for all the rockers, lifters, 2 camshafts, gaskets. I went to pick it up and they replaced the other 2 camshaft shafts and PCV valve for $1600+ in parts cost. I don’t think they got the timing right when they installed the cam shafts. The timing chain is 2-3 years old, so the odds that it’s stretched is pretty low. It’s going back next week for them to warranty their work.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@MichaelCook1981 I have a whole video on P0017. P2638 doesnt even exist on the promaster, but it's a generic code related to torque management that you probably dont need to worry about. Likely, the thing is running fine with P0017, but it would be nice to clear it. Basically, these engines simply DONT suffer from the things you are chasing. They dont spin bearings, we have never ever seen a chain fail up to 600k miles, the oil pumps never fail (though they do throw a P06dd, long story). What actually fails is really only 2 things - the pentastar tick (rockers) and the oil cooler leaking. Anyway, what I would do if this were in front of me is look at the cam positions and see how far off they are fromt commanded. Easy to get off a tooth when doing the rocker arm job. There are other possibilities though. Cam sensor wiring, galley plugs, lots of possibles. Let's see what they say when they get it back.

[@MichaelCook1981]

Yeah, I had the oil cooler housing fail, replaced it with a Dorman Aluminum housing. The only reason I changed out the oil pump was I had the upper oil pan off and I “supposedly had low oil pressure. I didn’t want to take the upper oil pan back off a couple years from now if the oil pump solenoid crapped out. It was $200 for the Mopar oil pump and solenoid. I just had everything replaced that causes the “tick” so hopefully they can figure out what is causing the p0017, the sensors are also brand new Mopar sensors, I checked the connection it’s getting 5v. So we’ll see what they say when I take it to them end of next week.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@MichaelCook1981 Let me know.

[@rlvallance]

Thanks for the info Kip.

[@promastersonly1419]

Happy to share. Would that all vehicles/products/things had such support.

[@dratsieservices8928]

That makes sense. So if you were replacing all the rockers you’d probably want them all from the same manufacturer batch just to try having the same metal composition? I wonder if manufacturers think that far into it when they produce all these parts.

[@promastersonly1419]

I'm scared to use the non-Mopar rocker arms, simply because I don't want to do the job twice. But the Mopar ones whose part number ends in AH are the latest revision, and are claimed to solve the tick problem. We haven't had a comeback so far when using those.

[@carolinem.9800]

interesting that galled cams lead to misfires which eventually lead to engine grinding itself to death. what great pics. they're putting these engines into the new roadtrek and customers are reporting great concern about the loud weird tics and what to do about them. . .

[@promastersonly1419]

It's the old "for want of a nail" adage. Small problems become big problems. For the vast majority of owners, this truly isn't a problem anyway. 120,000 miles to most motor home people is literally 30 years. And not all engines develop the problem, perhaps 20% do. But what's really interesting is that other than this tick problem, and the seals under the oil cooler, the engines simply have no common failures. They run forever. They don't need tuned or adjusted or maintained, other than oil changes. I run plugs and coils HUNDREDS of thousands of miles. Rock solid.

[@dack575]

@@promastersonly1419 I wish that was my experience. Mine began to misfire. The dealer replaced the coils but still get the code. Now they say it needs an engine.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@dack575 I can almost GUARANTEE you that you dont. Let me guess. A little over 100k miles, making a ticking sound. Van is a 2018 or earlier. I would argue that what you have is a dealer incompetence/dishonesty problem. Your description perfectly matches the pentastar tick. It isnt cheap to fix ($1500-2000) but once you do it with the latest parts you wont have to worry about this again. See my other videos for more info. Or research “pentastar tick”

[@dack575]

@@promastersonly1419 yes sir I certainly will. But I saw in another comment you stated that once you get the single cylinder misfire code you only have so many miles before it blows up. Not too sure what to do?

[@promastersonly1419]

@@dack575 Yes, but that number is on the order of 10k miles. Long before it grenades, it will be misfiring so badly you wont be able to drive it. All you risk by continuing to drive once you have a persistent single cylinder misfire is damage to the cat on that bank. Cats are under $300 though. Otherwise, a case could be made to just keep driving it as it misfires. Free miles, since the damage is already done.

[@calfolk7381]

This is gold 👍. I know you’re busy but I’ll be test driving a 2016 118 wheel base in a few days. Indie dealer asking 25k with 72k miles. After down payment, will probably have to finance 18k of it. I’ll look and listen for flaws but the question remains to buy, or not to buy? 🤷‍♂️

[@promastersonly1419]

Email me - I have one coming up for sale for a similar price with 61k miles, but it's a 2500 non-extended. Till then, I have a video about "assessing a used Promaster". I also have a video specifically about the stubby 118". Search "stubby" on my channel.

[@larryz8212]

But of course the big question is: What can I do to avoid the tick?

[@promastersonly1419]

That's the pricey question. I'm not convinced there's a damn thing you can do to avoid having this problem. If tomorrow someone invented magical parts that solved it once and for all, I don't think it would cost effective to just run in there and replace everything, since you already paid for what's in there and it's not broken "now". This job is somewhere around $1000 depending on how many parts you replace, and that's a lot to spend for a problem that isn't a problem until it is. My recommendation is to just drive it, and if you get the tick, fix it. Little else you can do really.

[@lifetimedreamvideos985]

@@promastersonly1419 How many miles do you have, once you notice the Pentastar tick, before real damage is done. An educated guess would be fine (100 miles, 300, 500, 1000, 3000?). Thanks to other posters, I now know your correct name is Kip, not Nick. The sound a lot alike. Nearly sounds like Tick. Kip will get rid of the Tick.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@lifetimedreamvideos985 It varies, but the tick usually gets bad enough to code for a single cylinder misfire at around 110k. Once it codes, you'll usually have about 10k more before it's missing so badly it's undriveable. The sooner you address it, the less likely it is you'll need to buy a cam, but if you really push it it's possible you will be buying multiple cams at $300 ea.

[@promastersonly1419]

Generally, the tick gets bad enough to cause a single cylinder misfire around 110k. After that, you have around 10k before it becomes so bad it's undriveable. @@lifetimedreamvideos985

[@promastersonly1419]

@@lifetimedreamvideos985 The tick usually gets bad enough to trigger a single cylinder misfire around 110k. After that, you have about 10k before it's running so badly it's undriveable.

[@joegreen9827]

got 310,000 out of my 2002 e150 4.2 liter minor repairs then bought this 2015 promaster the fords still kicking ass the promaster has me worried.going to sell as soon as possible not to mention the brake switch esc hill holder bullshit.just venting

[@promastersonly1419]

Fair point, but compare the whole picture between the two vans. Fuel economy, power, comfort, turning circle, winter traction and space need to be in the equation.

[@skupper672]

Top shelf elucidations of the highest order Lord Kipster. Now a question. Did they not upgrade the engine somehow in 19’ or 20’ to avoid this issue? If so when and what did they do to alleviate the problem (if true). Trying to ascertain if my 21- 3500 has a better chance of avoiding the issue than pre 2019’s.- Cheers mate

[@promastersonly1419]

By late 2019, the revised rocker arms that fix this problem were available. Your 2021 has them, and while it’s possible it may get the tick it seems pretty conclusive that it wont.

[@ranig2848]

So, this is a manufacturing defect and it's just random - some engines will have it, some cylinders will have it... any way to avoid or minimize impact (except for leaving van parked)? if so, when would you do it? when doing timing? at how many miles? THANK YOU FOR ALL THE EXCELLENT VIDEOS!!! 🙏

[@promastersonly1419]

I dont know exactly, but it's limited to the rocker arm roller needle bearings. If you replace the rocker arms with ones ending in AH (introduced fall of 2019), we have yet to see that problem return. The problem usually shows up around 110k miles.

[@ranig2848]

@@promastersonly1419 Oh, wow! Good to hear they improved the design (hopefully resolved the issue). We have a 2022 so hopefully we're out of the woods. Thank you for all that you do! 🙏

[@keithsgarage5831]

Could the issue be related to how oil is routed and distributed to within the engine? Cam rocker arms don't all get equal lubrication? I'd be interested in seeing the oil distribution system in this engine. Seems to me that regular oil lab analysis would alert you of increased iron content. You'd know when the valve train failure was coming. You could also use the regular oil lab results to dispute an expensive repair bill, and likely get some financial support from FCA.

[@promastersonly1419]

I think not, because if it was the same rocker arms would fail all the time. As it stands, it's entirely random which ones crap out.

[@promastersonly1419]

I should also add, broadly this problem doesn't affect engines made after mid 2019, and incidences are clustered around 110k miles, long out of warranty. Easier than oil analysis is to just cut open your used oil filters and look for metal, or listen for it to start ticking. The symptom is not really the ticking, it's a single cylinder misfire that isn't ignition. So you could predict it further by doing a compression test anytime you have a misfire code. Compare the offending cylinder to the one next to it, combine that with the oil filter, and you've pretty much got proof. Replace with factory rockers whos p/n ends in AH, and you won't have this problem again till well past 600k.

[@MyRebel44]

I’m glad to hear that , I hav e a 2022 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk., I’m charging my oil ever 5000 miles with at the dealer with the right oil.hope I never have any problems, thank you

[@promastersonly1419]

@@MyRebel44 Your 2022 Jeep has the Gen3 pentastar, and they generally don't suffer from the cam problems the Gen 2 and Gen 1 do. They were made with the upgraded rocker arms too.

[@papabits5721]

Makes sense

[@thomasreed643]

I replaced all cylinder heads in my 2018 2500 promaster van. Only have 135,000 miles all ready.

[@promastersonly1419]

I assume the engine overheated?

[@thomasreed643]

@@promastersonly1419 no sir no over heat issues. It started when I had missed fire cylinder 2 right at 100,000 miles. We replaced all spark plugs and coil packs and engine light went off. Then engine light came back on around 125,000 miles. Then start having cracking problems. Mechanic shop took motor apart had no oil sludge in the motor. I don't know if has anything to do with but we used the van for hvac stuff. There is a lot of heavy parts and tool in the van. I don't know if has something to do with it. Just can't believe they put a v6 in 2500 van instead a small v8. But what do I know, I just guy fixing air conditioners.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@thomasreed643 the misfire was likely rocker related - the Pentastar Tick. Replacing the heads will fix that, but probably wasnt necessary. But dude may have had more info than I have. In fairness, the engine has roughly 25% more power than a 350 chevy from the 80s or 90s. That same chevy van would haul 2500lbs. The promaster hauls 4300lbs. The old van got 13. The promaster will get 20 under ideal conditions. The old van needed a rebuild by 200k. Promaster will go to 550k before it gets week. Progress, baby.

[@msawyer110]

​@@promastersonly1419 promasters go 550k without problems? Then why does everyone say including you the misfire starts around 100k

[@tscorched3628]

Thanks for the great info.

[@promastersonly1419]

That's what I'm here for.

[@Ty-kx6cs]

Some recommend changing oil and filter at 5k, I like to consider changing the oil and filter about 3k.

[@promastersonly1419]

Wont hurt anything. But the more you drive, the less often you need to change oil, counter intuitively.

[@gregc5684]

Without my looking in the 2021 manual, what time frame do you recommend for an oil change? Should it be based purely on mileage or months of time? My van has spent more time sitting this year than being driven.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@gregc5684 Tough question. If the van sits a lot, I might go to more frequent oil changes. 3-4k. Normal use is 5k. Heavy use is more like 10k, counterintuitively. But if the van sits for weeks on end, going to spring and fall might be a better schedule. Hard to say.

[@marvingarcia8982]

I have a 2016 3500 pro master gas. It had the ticking noise for 1 year, engine light came on for miss firing. The fucking cluless mechanic told me it was the spark plugs and coils. Then after that he said it was the ECM. The fucking cluless customer agreed to all of that, I paid $3,500 for all that and noise and dignostic code still there. They then said I need a new motor, now I know where the fucking ticking noise is coming from. Lifters and cams, will replace that. Thank u.

[@promastersonly1419]

In short, that’s the reason this channel exists. I got robbed repeatedly by dealers and shops that just didnt give a shit. My “mission” is to share my knowledge to help people avoid that.

[@Andy-gw7hd]

Well if the guy was putting heavier oil and he lasted 400k plus miles and most of the engines don’t make it that long then tnere could be somthing tnere I have 3.6 and use one level up thicker oil and I have 137k miles no tick but I notice early like 80k miles the oil level drops even with mid way fresh oil so if I was a normal person i wouldn’t cetch it as fast I do and it can cuase not enough oil to go to certain lifters. All tne bearing got the same metal used so your logic don’t make since either the right oil level and regular maintenance I belive is the key I bought it new and never missed a change of 3k every change

[@promastersonly1419]

Good points. We still dont know exactly what causes the rocker arm bearings to fail. What we do know is the latest revision of the rockers seems to solve the problem. The best hands on I have is that the engines will go close to 600k before they start to get weak. Sounds crazy to say, but other than lifters or an overheating event, nothing really fails on these engines.

[@Andy-gw7hd]

Thanks for reply it cool even though old video you still take time to reply

[@DIYAudioGuy]

So, how unreliable is the Pentastar? Do they ALL develop the tick? How many miles before it starts to happen? How would you rate it vs other 3.6L V6's? The GM has timing chain issues, the Ford has an internal water pump so the timing chain get replaced when the water pump goes. Why do they all seem to have a problem?

[@promastersonly1419]

Big topic, but basically ALL machines break eventually. The tick happens to maybe 40% of all pentastars, and it's clustered around 110,000 miles. FCA released an upgraded rocker in late 2019, so newer vans and vans that have had the rockers replaced after that date are "fixed" in that we've never had one get the tick again after the upgrade. For me, the promaster is by far the most reliable/durable vehicle I've ever owned. But big picture it's comparable to the ford, drastically more reliable than the Benz. If we are just talking engines, pentastar is miles ahead of the corporate GM 3.6, more economical to repair and run than the N/A Ford V6, and way ahead of the ecoboost. Other than the tick and the oil cooler leak (both "fixed" with upgrades) the pentastar is just bulletproof. It's kinda amazing.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

@@promastersonly1419 thanks for the reply! Glad to know they updated it to in 2019. I'll see if I can run my focus to a 2020 or newer V6.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@DIYAudioGuy Replacing the rockers is about a $1500 job, so it's possible you'll save more by buying the older van and budgeting the upgrade than springing for the newer van. And it's also possible that someone has already done the job on the older van.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

@@promastersonly1419 awesome, thanks! I'm not actually looking at a ProMaster. I just happen to know the same engine was used on several different cars.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@DIYAudioGuy That engine is used on EVERY chrysler. Truck, van, cop car, challenger, jeep...it's the only v6 they make. They have two flaws (tick, and oil cooler leak) but otherwise they are bulletproof to 500k no sweat. The promaster is particularly choice for the shit it DOESN'T have. No egr, no fuel filter, no maf sensor, no transmission computer, no exhaust manifolds.

[@TheWillisSportsNetwork]

OK so I replaced the Purge Valve and the ticking went away as did the misfire code.... Here's to hoping it stays away.

[@promastersonly1419]

Weird, as a misfire is unrelated to any evap stuff. But still good news.

[@TheWillisSportsNetwork]

Update: The ticking noise is resolved. The misfire code did go away as did the mildly rough idle... Then came returned 2 days later??? I'm thinking wire harness next as the problem is intermittent.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@TheWillisSportsNetwork more likely the misfire is always there but often under the threshhold to fire the light. You’d need a somewhat fancy scanner to monitor the individual cylinder misfire counts.

[@ExpediteTravels]

Great informative video my van has started ticking butt on closer inspection it’s coming from the passenger side of the vehicle that leads me to believe it is something to do with the serpentine belt or idler pulleys it doesn’t sound like it’s coming from the middle of the engine What’s your thoughts on this?

[@promastersonly1419]

If you were to use a piece of hose as a stethescope, you'd probably find that it's coming from the rear valve cover. That would be the Pentastar Tick. But a simply way to find out if it's belt related is to pop the belt off, start it, and see if the sound is gone. Don't run it like that for more than a minute or so as the belt drives the water pump, but that's a free diagnostic that's easy to do.

[@ExpediteTravels]

@@promastersonly1419 awesome thanks Kip much appreciated 😎👍👍🇨🇦

[@blueshieldpowerwashingfl]

Outstanding

[@Randy001]

Any recommendations about the replacement rocker arm? It looks like Mopar part # is up to 5184296 (AH). But there are also other vendors (Melling, SKP on RockAuto)

[@promastersonly1419]

I have a dealer tech friend who says the AH rockers are the ones to use, and basically solve the problem. I could be totally wrong, but I think Melling makes the rockers for FCA and always has. Either way, I don't have any kind of proof for anything, but the next rocker job I do will be with AH parts. The lifter appears to be totally unchanged, still at AA.

[@lofadem]

Hi I recently bought a 2016 promaster 2500 with 138k miles I got it for a good deal because the guys said it needed some engine work, so I took it to my mechanic he told me diagnose it he said it need the timing chain and gears he quoted me $5000 with eom parts so I when ahead and said yes , he give me the van back I probably drove it for like 2 days when the check engine pop up I call the mechanic he said is ok just to keep driving it and to take it back the next week so I keep driving it also there was a ticking noise that was getting worse, finally I took it back to the mechanic he replaced a few sensors ran some test on the van he call me up and said that now I need a new engine because he changed the oil a couple times and the oil was gray color with metal shavings everything he changed it. So is that something a mechanic can miss after changing the timing chain and timing gear,how can they didn’t notice it when they first removed the old oil he mentioned to me that it was impossible for them to know the engine was bad and now I have to pay to get a new engine.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@lofadem I’m hesitant to give advice because at this point it wont help. However, we’ve never seen a single chain issue on this engine regardless of mileage. Ever. And if we did, its likely I would simply replace the engine rather than attempt to fix the chain. That doesnt help you from where you are now. Other than metal in the oil, can I assume you have a single cylinder misfire and that’s it’s only symptom right now?

[@lofadem]

@@promastersonly1419 thanks for your reply man i appreciate i really like this vans but i guess i was lucky enough to get the one with the most problems.do do you think is better to replace the whole engine at this point or try to fixing the existing one the mechanic hasn’t dropped the old engine out yet to look at whats wrong with it he told me he did a few tests without taking out the engine out and he thinks there’s something wrong with the camshafts and it’s better to replace the engine. Also if i ended up replacing it is there something i need to look for while the engine is out and replace it what do you recommend thanks again.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@lofadem I have a video called Upgrading a Replacement Engine. It details the stuff you should do. Ideally, what you'd want your guy to do is verify the chain timing (by looking at the marks on the cam phasers) and do some kind of compression test. If a single cylinder comes back with low compression, do a leakdown test on that cylinder. What he's trying to figure out is if the block and rings are good. If not, then yeah it's new engine time. If it's just a single cylinder, then it's worth it to pop the valve covers and inspect the cams. Likely you'll find one with a wiped out lobe. Replace that cam, upgrade the rocker arms.

[@waysofseeing1]

Eloquent!

[@louishunter9249]

Fellow tech here. Love the info BTW. So i don't know if this was asked before but after you replace with updated rockers has that vehicle ever had another issue with ticking?

[@promastersonly1419]

So far, the revised rockers (ends in 296AH) seem to cure the problem permanently. To date, we or any of the other shops I'm friendly with have never had to do them twice.

[@louishunter9249]

@@promastersonly1419 that should be enough proof to let people know it was a manufacturing defect only (metallurgy) and that there isn't really anything you can do to prevent i.e. more frequent oil changes.

[@promastersonly1419]

That's my conclusion too. Nor can you operate the vehicle any differently to prevent it. It's just one of those things. If I had to guess, by 200k probably 50% of pentastars have the tick, by 300k probably 75% have the tick. But we've noticed that it's clustered around 110k - if you get to 120k and you don't have it, you probably won't get it. Keep in mind that a large chunk of my customers are expediters, and run the engine to 500-600k before thinking about a new engine. Seems like around 550k the rings start to get weak. @@louishunter9249

[@r.a.lafleur7248]

Great stuff Kip. Is it me or are the front wheel drive Pentastar engines more prone to the ticking than the rear drive Pentastar. I've got one of each and my Promaster seems a hell of a lot noisier than my Grand Cherokee with 30,000 less miles.

[@promastersonly1419]

The Promaster skimps on a lot of the sound deadening that the other engines have. No upper engine cover, no underhood insulation, no fancy engine mounts, less inside firewall insulation. So you would be more likely to hear it. It also might be a use case situation, where Promasters are more likely to be commercial, more likely to get higher miles faster, etc. But that's all just guesswork on my part.

[@johnwren3976]

Kip, maybe you can help me out. If a clown farts, does it smell funny?

[@promastersonly1419]

A question as old as time itself. I think it smells funny.

[@dannyshush6961]

Dude straight on

[@MyGoogleYoutube]

It would be interesting to see if there are similarities to which rockers fail. Any consistency?

[@promastersonly1419]

No pattern, but plenty of confusion. In the first runs of Pentastars in Jeeps in 2011, they used a supply of bad cylinder heads at the factory. So there was a bulletin, and Chrysler replaced a bunch of left side (only left side) cylinder heads. But the knowledge persisted such that whenever you say "Pentastar" so guy will go "left side cylinder head". I call it a Zombie Diagnosis. Anyway, aside from the 2011s, there is no pattern to which cylinders fail - it can be any of them. The only pattern is that the tick is most likely to occur at around 110k, and if you make it to 200k you probably don't have to worry about getting it.

[@stevelandsberg6951]

... so are you thinking it's simply random? Same cylinders on other engines? or diff? tx for posting this. ~ S

[@promastersonly1419]

I do think it's random as to which cylinder, and random as to which engines develop the tick and when. Seems to be no pattern to it, other than pre 2018 engines seem more likely, and most engines get it (if they get it at all, maybe 20% do) around 110,000 miles. No other pattern emerges, so far as I can tell.

[@sunnyd5535]

Ok...blah blah blah....so what actually causes it? Just a crap engine? I just had 4 cams/rockers/lifters replaced - no more ticking.

[@kipamore]

The only conclusion I can draw is that it’s either a design weakness, or a metallurgy problem. But this is tricky because the same logic that says it cant be oil related because they would all fail predictably, says it cant be a design problem because they would also all fail predictably if it was. I cant defend the pentastar as “non crap”. But I can say that other than the tick, and the leaky oil seals under the oil cooler, the engine basically has no pattern failures. In 1.9 million miles on my own Promasters, I’ve never had to even touch a water pump, timing chain, belt, plug or coil, computer, oil pump, exhaust pipe or muffler, brake master or booster, abs pump, ps pump, injector, throttle body, map sensor, pcv, or fuel pump. Literally never had to even touch them. Instead, I fight with coolant leaks, front end and alignment, tires and balance, and those goddamn HVAC actuators. And headlight bulbs. A pretty good trade off, really.

[@build.time.silence.free.6902]

Hello I need help!!! I have a 2018 Ram ProMaster 3500 , the engine light came out of nowhere, mechanic did a diagnostic, it's showing, P0300, P0303, and it says cylinder #3 is bad. The mechanic changed these parts, plenum gasket set, fuel injector, coil on plug, and spark plug. But the engine light is still on and then it'll go off for a couple of days and then it'll go back on. I kind of hear a TIK, so now the mechanic is suggesting that we change rocker arms... Does this issue pertain to the tik everybody's talking about???

[@promastersonly1419]

Most likely yes, but the p0300 suggests it might be something more global. Two ways to rule out the tick - one is a compression test. The other is far easier - cut open a used oil filter and look for excessive metal. That metal would be your #3 rocker arm needle bearings.

[@05fordvan]

It just hit me, these are the exact same engines used in the caravan, town and country, and dodge journey. So they are interchangeable right?

[@promastersonly1419]

Everything except the dipstick tube. All the fwd chrysler are the same - Journey, T&C, Caravan, Routan, 200, maybe some others.

[@Tryitall992]

I bought a used promaster with this tick. Bought drivetrain and motor warranty. Will they cover this ?

[@promastersonly1419]

They should. It’s internal engine damage.

[@TheWillisSportsNetwork]

Mine seems to come from a line and sensor that is attached to the air intake. Its been happening since 53k miles and throwing a cylinder misfire code. The engine also runs a tiny bit rough at idle when the code is present. It will totally clear up at times and no longer have a vibration during idol and the code will go away. Any thoughts?

[@promastersonly1419]

See if your intake hose, the short rubber one thats directly attached to the throttle is loose. But that wouldnt cause a misfire. That it heals suggests electrical to a coil, whichever one the code calls out.

[@TheWillisSportsNetwork]

Thanks for the reply I will check it for sure. I replaced the coils and plugs about 10k miles ago when the problem first started happening. The problem remained intermittent. I'm considering the replacing the wire harness to see if that does it. The thing that is ticking has a plug with 2 wires going into it. I removed the connector and the ticking stopped. I'm trying to figure out what it is and what it does before proceeding. @@promastersonly1419

[@mazdaspeed-]

I heard that Ram fixed this issue. Do you know what year no longer has this issue?

[@promastersonly1419]

The latest AH revision parts came out in very late 2019, just in time to be hard to get due to the 'rona. But pretty much any van built after 11/19 or so should have the most current parts.

[@williamrobinson6680]

Oil, oil, oil, oil. Even with poor "metallurgy" etc etc, moving parts do not touch, but rather rotate on a film of OIL. When the OIL becomes contaminated, thus abrasive, parts begin to wear. So good, healthy, viscous, robust, fresh OIL, will NOT ALLOW even poorly engineered, manufactured parts to prematurely wear out/fail.

[@promastersonly1419]

It's not that I feel that you are wrong, it's just that I have evidence that oil doesn't cause it. Why some rockers and not others? Why does NOTHING else in the engine fail if the oil is the problem? Rings, cams, chain, chain tensioners, bearings, phasers - 2.2 million miles and not a hint of failure on those items. Also of note; the engine in this video spent the first 250k of it's 500k on cheap dino wrong weight oils and neglected oil changes, yet the pentastar tick looks EXACTLY like this in every engine. Not just Promasters - Jeeps, cop cars, minivans, minivan livery, trucks. My last evidence is inductive; if there was simply an oil that "fixed" the problem, why don't we know about it? Wouldn't it be in Chrysler's best interest to make 500k engines and tell everyone about it? Don't they want to be Toyota?

[@williamrobinson6680]

@@promastersonly1419 Certain internal components are more vulnerable and susceptible to damage. Another responsibility of engine oil is to dissipate heat away from the components. Different engine components generate varying internal temperatures depending on their function and whereabouts within the powerplant. Also, loads and pressure between components vary significantly. To suggest that oil neglect should manifest itself in an "even/multiple wear" throughout, is simply thinking outside of mechanical engineering logic. Appreciate it, but I can't go against 50 years of experience. And I could be wrong, but the second I ignore my gut instinct and follow a different logic, I fail. And fail miserably. The 2018 ProMaster I'm driving at 327,000 sounds+runs like new. Start up clatter for 1-2 seconds, then quiet as a mouse, and powerful. Impeccable full synthetic oil change records which I attest for the successful quiet engine condition and performance. I had a Crown Vic, using my favorite oil products and grades. I thought, Motorcraft, by Ford. Should I be using Ford products on Ford? One Motorcraft try. First oil change was black and thin as coffee, and burnt smelling. Lesson learned. Ultimately, in 50 years, following my oil beliefs, never an engine failure. And high mileages up to 530,000 by maintaining my own select blends and combination oil products. When I deviate from my oil beliefs, I've had failures, up to and including total loss. I travel the country. And the vast majority of Pentastar "ticks" I witness are vehicles that are basically trashed, not well cared for in appearance, so assuming not keeping up on oil changes. That goes the same for all makes and models. Trashed out appearing vehicles, sound horrible too.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@williamrobinson6680 Sound logic. I'm open to anyone showing me, or showing evidence to me, that oil could prevent the tick. The problem is that it will take hundreds of thousands of miles for such proof, and even then we can't control every variable. Fun fact: for one year only, FCA changed the oil spec. They spec'd 5w-30 on the Journey, but ONLY the Journey and ONLY for 2015. Manual specs it, and the cap specs it. Then for 2016, back to 5w-20 like every Pentastar. Why they did this I have no idea, but I tend to think they were fishing for a solution for the tick.

[@williamrobinson6680]

@@promastersonly1419 Until then. Don't overthink it. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. Internal combustion engine life blood is, and will ALWAYS be fresh oil. After all, it's only a "tick". The crankshaft isn't breaking into pieces. So it's a minor concern. When my small block chevys were oil neglected, they'd develop an early onset stumble/misfire + rocker tick. Result? One worn cam lobe. No worries. Repair; then shorten oil change intervals. Lobe failure? Never, ever again. Valve train geometry rotating as engineered, requires fresh oil. Also, the oil weight/grade isn't so critical to wear. Some engineers feel the microscopic "rollers" in oil, will always continue to hold up between the bearing or metal surfaces. It's the contamination which destroys motors. So if contamination is the culprit, FRESH oil is still the remedy. I don't know? How are the oil samples lab testing between changes?

[@promastersonly1419]

@@williamrobinson6680 All good points. In my application, we go 10k on oil, which is once a month on average. I recommend 5k for normal use. So I’m not advocating for neglect. But I think at a certain point, better oil doesnt do you any good. For my part, never bothered with oil analysis because other than the rocker needles seizing, zero oiling problems of any kind. Twice now we’ve had engines go to mid 500k before they started losing any compression. And even then they were still running fine, just down slightly on power and mpg. No pump, bearing, chain, or any other kind of wear. So for me, juggling oil solves a problem that doesnt exist.

[@horaciogaytan3771]

How much would it cost to fix that?

[@promastersonly1419]

Depends, but generally $1200-1600.

[@horaciogaytan3771]

Not bad, where are you guys located? @@promastersonly1419

[@thecomebackkid4440]

Any idea when the parts where updated and if maybe a 2021 PM would be less likely to have this issue?

[@promastersonly1419]

I believe that the AH parts were late 2019. But what you can do is call any dealership parts department and armed with your VIN they can tell you what came on your van. You wouldnt have to worry till around 100k anyway so there wouldnt be a need to put in AH parts anyway till then.

[@lifetimedreamvideos985]

@@promastersonly1419 What does "AH" stand for? Pardon my ignorance.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@lifetimedreamvideos985 Chrysler parts start life with the part number suffix AA. Each minor revision gets AB, AC, and so on. Major revisions get a new part number. But the rocker arms for a Pentastar end in AH, meaning this is the 8th revision since new. It's said (but not proven) that the newest design eliminates the pentastar tick problem, or at least pushes it so far in the future that you won't care.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@lifetimedreamvideos985 Chrysler numbers their part numbers ending with the suffix AA. So AH is the 8th revision of the rocker arms. It's said (but not proven) that they eliminate the tick problem, or push it out so far in the future that you won't care.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@lifetimedreamvideos985 FCA parts end in a suffix. AA, AB, etc. AH means it's the 8th revision of those rocker arms. Said (but not proven) to eliminate the tick forever, or at least push it so far into the future that you won't care.

[@thomas4315]

They must be a licensed deal with Europe auto as ford transit was the original that from Europe . The dodge body the dash board shifter and even the engine is exact at the transient , only the front wheel drive different. But the sprinter diffrent but fir the body

[@andrewboylan4508]

Do you think a intermittent tick can me a Rocker?

[@promastersonly1419]

Unlikely. The pentastar tick is almost always louder when cold, but it's always there. I would suspect something else, like maybe the pcv valve or something in the belt path. A way to know for sure - cut open a used oil filter and look for metal. A little is normal.