Rambling about motherboard memory layouts.

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[@d2ricci]

Oh, RAMblings! I get it now!

[@CaveyMoth]

RAM......BLING!

[@csy0407273]

RGB everywhere!

[@edwardkyrie2292]

I guess im asking the wrong place but does someone know a method to log back into an instagram account? I was stupid lost my password. I appreciate any assistance you can offer me

[@lachlanroberto5160]

@Edward Kyrie instablaster =)

[@edwardkyrie2292]

@Lachlan Roberto i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm in the hacking process atm. I see it takes a while so I will reply here later with my results.

[@umeng2002]

Talk about copy-pasting in manuals... Asus still has a warning that "only storage devices" can be used in USB 3.0 ports... even in the manuals of motherboards that only have USB 3.0+ ports on the back.

[@bradneedham603]

Dude you gotta reach out to linus or something. His channel (and every other tech review channel) is missing the real technical analysis of all this hardware, and you have the knowledge and skills to provide that. Someone like him has the followers and this sh$%tt needs to be seen!!! It would be so good for the consumer market to know what their actualy getting with their hard earned$$$, Not to mention the stellar competition this kind of content could create amongst manufacturer's, which in turn drives up hardware quality and drives down prices!! Reach out man, you need more exposure and more resources!

[@nomoredamnnamestouse]

Yup, fuck him and the other low quality mass market KZbinr trash out there.

[@jasonmajere2165]

I see Linus very heavy entertainment vs this in really informative. But if it kept buildzoid in products to test and had more ppl to subscribe to keep going all for it.

[@mohitrahaman]

He does appear in GamersNexus from t2t

[@Marr033]

Linus is an advertiser garbage. Hardware Unbox is so great compared to him... And this guy.

[@bhume7535]

Don't be hating on Linus! Sure his channel doesn't deep dive into everything, but that's what is great about it. Its fun and entertaining, but if you are _REALLY_ interested you can look into the topics more somewhere else. Broad appeal has value, it may spark a hobby.

[@Snoop05B]

2 videos with buildzoid in less than 10 minutes, it's xmas already

[@snokones]

Right? i was just thinking the same thing.

[@BenderdickCumbersnatch]

It's Christmas already because he released two videos? Well he rambles so much that it will be Christmas again by the time you finish watching those two videos.

[@BenderdickCumbersnatch]

@@kiavaxxaskew 😂👌

[@acornelectron1461]

It's all well and good knowing what the tech is for but understanding how it works helps you utilize its functionality and optimise its performance for you - I'm trying to learn one thing a day about this kinda tech and you definitally ticked that box for me. Thanks bz.

[@MephistoDerPudel]

Now I get, why I had to take my memory from 2666MHz to 2400MHz after adding another 2 sticks.

[@latuba2478]

Ohhh, but did it at least boost game fps?

[@c4_yrslf726]

My speed went down too. I saw a boost in only one game, Star Citizen

[@jaronmarles941]

@@latuba2478 There's almost no difference in FPS, and you get lower speeds on your RAM overall. Not really worth it unless you intend on adding memory to fill up the slots. Otherwise, stick with 2 so you can add even more RAM later.

[@delta9k]

Thanks for this. The white board explanation provided a lot of clarity.

[@adityac1991]

The more you know the more ram you can download 🤣

[@Fix_It_Again_Tony]

If I had to make an educated guess about why the "far" slot in a daisy chain topology is generally better if only using one slot for a given channel I would say it probably comes down to terminations for the traces. Placing a stick of RAM in the far slot will terminate the channel at the end of the chain. If you place a stick of RAM in the near slot only the trace will be terminated in the middle and the distance to the next slot in the chain will be unterminated (a stub) and cause a reflection which interferes with the signal. In a T topology, the stub would always be the same length so it would be consistent between using a single stick in slot 1 or 2, but neither would be as good as the daisy chain topology using a stick in the far slot. As said in the video, using four sticks in a T topology would equalize the delay between both sticks in a channel and would probably overclock better if all slots were filled versus daisy chain.

[@Inimigor1]

And this video too will get a lot of LTT fans coming very soon...

[@xzreai1802]

Yes we're here.

[@brovid-19]

@@xzreai1802 Yeah, at first. Then eventually, you invert and become a Buildzoid fan that goes over to LTT videos. LTT is amazing and I love them, but they don't give _nearly_ enough of or in depth of an explanation on the fundamental functions and behavior of hardware like Brittish Linus. Unless you really like hearing from this video's sponsor.

[@xzreai1802]

@@brovid-19 I agree, their content is for more the general consumer, not us PC geeks who fight over PSUs and Mobos

[@DavidtheDoom]

The reason for the higher clock speed on the later dimm in a daisy chain is due to impedance matching. The same goes for terminations of Coax-communication (75 Ohm). Another interesting tech is RDRAM (Rambus) which needed termination dimms (Basically dummy dimms) to ensure proper termination. Same goes for Nintendo N64 where the black pack where the expansionpack goes is just a termination of the RAM-bus.

[@bobhumplick4213]

is that what those things that screw onto cable coax do? impedance mathcing? they screw into the male end of a coax and have a male end on them, not the large round filters, but they are very small and screw into a male coax but the other end has a male plug, they also have a rating of some kind. i have some here but i didnt know what they do. its not a frequecny filter though

[@DavidtheDoom]

@@bobhumplick4213 Not sure, but if you are talking about plugs you screw into loose cables or open terminals in T-junctions then yes. They are terminations to so that signal reflection does not occur. (Signal reflection is the result of poor impedance matching, reflection gives poor SNR and will eventually disrupt signal integrity).

[@bobhumplick4213]

@@DavidtheDoom i just remembered what they had wrote on them. attenuator. does that ring a bell? they are very tiny and have a male plug on one end and a female on the other, sort of like a filter but they are very small. what would that do?

[@weightlifting_socialist]

@@bobhumplick4213, you might be talking about channel filters. They either block channels or let channels be shown. They were used a lot before digital boxes became a thing. I think they might be used even with digital boxes but I can't remember since its been a long time ago. They come in a variety of lengths, they are cylindrical, one side has a male end which you screw into the Tap (that's the main cable connection at the pole, looks just like where you screw your coax cable into the back of your tv), the other side has a female end where you screw your drop line (which is your coax cable coming from the pole to your house). They are supposed to be put at the Tap so no one can easily take them off to get channels their not supposed to, if it's the kind that block channels.

[@bobhumplick4213]

@@weightlifting_socialist nah i now what the filters are. i looked it up. they are attenuators. if your signal is too hot they put them on to decrease the power of the signal

[@TimmyJoePCTech]

I liked this video before I even watched one second of it

[@snokones]

Fan of yours too Timmy Joe.

[@CarbonPanther]

Hi timmy boi.

[@JanghanHong]

Quick question: what about old retro motherboards (SDR/DDR1) that used to have three dimm slots per channel and sometimes even 4 dimms per channel? (Asus P3V4X)

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

I would guess they have even longer daisy chains which sounds like a terrible idea but at the low clocks it's probably didn't hurt that much.

[@JanghanHong]

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking good, hopefully I can get full 133mhz with all 4 dimms while running Tetris.

[@Nicholas_Steel]

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking My ASUS P6T for example is a Triple Channel motherboard.

[@JanghanHong]

@@Nicholas_Steel Yes, but it's 2dimms per channel instead of 3 or 4 dimms per channel, you should go watch Linustechtips instead.

[@Nicholas_Steel]

@@JanghanHong Oh yeah, you're right. I derped since I should've realized that the moment I typed out "Triple Channel". 3 channels, 2 dimms per channel, 6 total slots.

[@Sam-bt9mi]

Why not turn the DIMM slots 90 degrees so the runs could be equidistant straight lines from the CPU to the DIMMs? Just because of board space and standard board sizes, or is there an EE reason?

[@bBrain]

2:28 I totally heard "two memory steaks"

[@canirunit8162]

Still remember ASUS heavily suffer in Z170 era. Only Impact with 2 dimms can OC memory well but we still need to "binned" ASUS motherboard. Extreme / Formula utterly rekted by Z170 OC Formula with daisy chain design and not need to "binned".

[@cnboy83]

I heard from a msi engineering channel that T topo design has a issue that when u only plug 2 ram on board the other 2 spare slots would acting like some kind of antenna and interupt the memory frequency which daisy chain won’t do that. in the past most of board use T topo design because the distance of circuit between two slots and cpu are same from engineer’s viewpoint, when DDR4 came out. due to the extreme high frequency is become popular, the main issue is focused on how to keep the signal stability so that the ram frequency can reach as high as possible.so his recommendation is that for the T topo board, if u want to test the oc limit, u d better plug 4 rams. the frequncy could boost 400-800MHz. For 1 DPC, though u only have 2 slots, but u can get the best ram performance because the circuit is exclusive to each slot, it could make huge difference compare to the 4 slots mobo.

[@tanhongyi7180]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5e3gKiubZqho6c

[@tanhongyi7180]

Yeah Mr Lin highlighted it as one of the changes they made to Z390, deviating from Z370 series. Given that most of the consumers generally goes with 2 slot dual channel, they changed the configurations back to daisy chain in order to maximize the RAM frequency performance consumers can get with just 2 sticks.

[@CaveyMoth]

Wait...in a T-Topology, you can put the DIMMs anywhere, and it won't affect their functionality? What if The Verge used a T-Topology motherboard?!

[@basshead.]

That's not how T-topo works.

[@CaveyMoth]

@@basshead. But it's how Mafia works

[@jyrolys6]

It was in the context of overclocking. Slot choice wouldn't negatively impact results on a T-Topology board. Not making use of Dual-Channel by picking the wrong slots is still a colossal mistake.

[@АртёмСабадырь]

Slot 1 sucks in daisy chain because you get a signal reflection from an extra wire going (nowhere) to slot 2. Think about signal as ocean wave and you'll get the point))

[@XDbored1]

so you want either 2x16GB with 1DPC or 4x8GB with T-topology but finding 16GB DDR4 Bdie is like finding a rainbow unicorn so probably the 4x8GB with T-topology

[@rsm4541]

For why? If you buy 3200cl14 2x8 u can hit 4200-4300 16-18-28 280

[@XDbored1]

@@rsm4541 i know 8GB Bdie works well and is easy to find but expensive but i want 32GB which means 4X8GB or 2X16GB but since 16GB Bdie is pretty hard to find last time i checked there was none for sale in the whole country of Australia and the only way to get it was to buy it from newegg and wait for it to get shipped from the USA i came to the conclusion that 4X8GB would be much better which means i would want a T-topology and a good IMC which means not Ryzen but i want Ryzen does the cheapest threadripper have a better IMC?

[@rsm4541]

@@XDbored1 for what ?! Use only intel cpu -_-

[@KuraIthys]

@@rsm4541 Intel CPU's have really gone downhill. Ryzen makes them look bad, and the rumours about the next iteration of Ryzen makes them look even worse. Intel has been caught with their pants down thinking AMD will never be competitive again, and it's made them lazy, and it shows. Buying intel just because it's intel is the sign of someone that doesn't bother to think about what they're doing. When you look at marketing, it's obvious that such people buy intel CPU's no matter what, and Nvidia GPU's no matter what, regardless of whether that's even remotely the best option at the time. Which... For processors, right now it isn't. Though the stupidity of using Intel right now is especially evident if you need a lot of cores. If you're trying to decide between a threadripper and an i9 for instance...

[@truckerallikatuk]

@@KuraIthys Agreed. I'd suggest waiting for next year and the Ryzen 2 core threadrippers, probably around april. Or getting a really good board and low end chip now and upgrade to Ryzen 3000 threadrippers when they release. The Threadripper boards are typically (from what I understand) the second tier of binning, with their datacenter Epyc chips getting the best silicon, threadripper second and desktop Ryzen last. So you will probably find better IMC on threadripper than you will on desktop Ryzen usually, tho I'm not sure if AMD's Binning process looks at the chip as a whole, or just core clocks. If it's just core clocks, you may find you get a Threadripper with awesome core clocks and a terrible IMC on some channels, so YMMV.

[@lkuzmanov]

A lot of info that was new to me, thanks BZoid. I wish you had included a couple of pictures as examples. Can one guess the memory channel layout based on visual inspection?

[@KuraIthys]

Can't say I've seen a motherboard with only 2 memory slots very often that wasn't also a small form factor board. Mini ITX boards in particular, for fairly obvious reasons generally only have 2 slots...

[@chromerims]

This video should have 10 bn views 👍 even tho I am very late to this party. This video answers important questions about RAM layouts. Anyone building a PC with dimm slots should think about what's explained in this video. Kindest regards, friends and neighbours.

[@RheaAyase]

I've had really bad experience with daisy chain and 4 dimms. The type of where 2 dimms are fine, but 4 dimms throw memtest errors. A lot.

[@ev0rn]

You missed some facts... with T-Top its possible to hit 4400 with 2dpc but NOT with 1dpc. T-Top Boards works even better with 4 Dimms. I can give you some infos about that if you want.

[@geoffreychancel9763]

I’m a bit late but interested by the infos ! :)

[@i-amMK]

Yes, please give some info!

[@johannparis9445]

I can confirm that. I do exactly 4x8go 4133Mhz CAS19 on my Z390 Aorus Master (i9 9900K 5.1ghz/ uncore 4.3ghz 1.30/1.32V manually and get stable ram when i change the pwm phase rate. And YES it really work. The same goes for LLC too. NEVER going above High level (level 4 on 9). In contrary you will gain save more voltage cpu comparing to Extreme/Ultra. 4 dimms Single rank is better 2 SR. And 2 dimms Dual rank are even better. Dont forget that 2 dimms Single rank = 1dimms Dual rank. The more you put dimms the better it will be no matter the Typology. The only thingis that you should be aware for the differences of frequency og the ram from yhe traces layouts. I think to test 4x16go 3600Mhz CAS16 In reality when you could afford and when it's a good implementation T-typology is the better. Despite highter latency and/or frequency..Dual rank can perform better than Single rank And so just with 2 dimm Dual rank so imagine with 4 of them.. Even with my 4 dimms SR 4133Mhz tell you that in cas19 it s btter that 3800Mhz... 15-15-15-35 (yes really) but in only 2x8go SR... On performance test i have had 4100 pts global. The other person 3900 despite much latency..and close frequency (3800Mhz). 3900 pts for him The final person with 2x16go,get 4200 points with 2x16go 3500/3600Mhz 16-18-18-38 And yes just for two sticks.. Beware to your cpu and voltages rails too.. The more hou overclock the and/or the less you will be able to overclock your ram. just add 100mhz to the uncore is enough to get you mass errors on Karhu ram test.

[@Ph42oN]

"Asus good at doing it" No its not, asus prime x370 pro sucks at memory overclocking, while in other things its good but other manufacturers cheaper boards overclock memory better. Actually it seems to even care what stick is in what slot, not only what slots i use. If i take memory stick from slot 2 to slot 4, and from 4 to 2 it will do worse than it does now.

[@mrbrittas3254]

i just bought gigabyte x570s UD. its daisy chain which says use the 2nd and fourth slot for 2 sticks. i have heard that using 4 stick is pointless if all dual rank coz the two sticks in 1 and 3 slot wont dont anything so if i have 4x 16gb in al 4 slots it wont be any better than 2x 16gb in slots 2 and 4. do i nned 4x 16gb single rank sticks or can i use 4x 16gb dual rank sticks or do i just need to get 2x32gb if i want more than 32gb, i dont need more than 32gb i just want to use all 4 slots so nothing is empty and i have power if i ever ned it. i getting 5800x cpu for it or maybe the 3d.

[@akiraic]

this video is UNDERRATED. Magnificence in explanation. Thank you very much.

[@nitindalmeida1183]

9:45 Data lines are end to end connected in all the topologies. The address and command group signals are shared. Slot 2 performance better because it see the least amount of reflection. T branch topologies suck at higher memory density due to SI issues and reflection

[@shadowr2d2]

Five is a good number. Not like first, but better Then 25.. Merry Tech Christmas 🎄..,

[@PlayItLikeABoss]

I feel like I just had a college class except the prof is actually good and i actually learned something lol thx for the video

[@mackal]

I think even if a vendor is using t-topology it might be better to just state preferred slots since many new builders are probably told to check their motherboard on which slots is preferred and if the new users can't find it, it would be bad for them. So I guess probably just can remove confusion for some builders.

[@bobhumplick4213]

yeah if you dont state preferred slots then new builders will just stick the 2 sticks rigth beside each ohter and then they will only have sinlge channel. so why not just try to make all boards fit the standard skip one, stick one, skip one, stick one, interface

[@mackal]

@@bobhumplick4213 yeah, it's easier for them to just say use this slot, then this one, then this one, and finally this one then explaining "one per channel first!" because you gotta explain channels ...

[@geoffreychancel9763]

Hi, thanks very much for this video ! Excellent and very interesting as an electrical engineering student. I’m a bit late but anyone knows which topology has the Aorus AX370 Gaming K7 ? and the Asrock B450 pro 4 ? Thanks in advance !

[@rapophie9228]

looks like Xplained with paint to me... srsly, super interesting video, if you find out more about the scientific reasons for the behavior of the daisy chained mobos I would be glad to see another video diving deeper into the topic.

[@JayzBeerz]

How would you install 4 memory sticks if you have 2 dual channel kits on a daisy chain board?

[@alien_man1669]

I HAVE A CORRECTION! The video needed to be longer XP

[@derx6666]

Too bad that most vendors use 4 dimm slots instead of 2. 4 slots is only interesting if you want 64GB of ram, which is crazy overkill on normal consumer stuff or for gaming. For video/photgraphy editing or other pro (not consumer) use 64GB (or more) could be useful, but for consumer stuff I don't see the need for 64GB (yet). The mobo manufacturers could save a buck by using only 2 slots, and we gain a bit by getting better OC. A classic win/win situation if you ask me. They could always build a pro mobo line with 4 dimm slots for those who need the extra ram.

[@sudo3644]

great video, explained everything very well!

[@bart9509]

I just installed 4 x 16GB Corsair 3600MHz CL16 LPX Ram into a Asus Z490-E Gaming with a i9 10900k and it fails to run at 3600MHz. It works at 3400MHz but semi-stable (some errors on MemTest) and works perfectly on 3200MHz. I'm absolutely fuming that it aint working - the board apparently supposed to run 4000MHz x 4 easily...... I have RMAd both the CPU and Motherboard hoping that its something wrong with the board or CPU as 2x in A1 and B1 slots refuses to run in XMP as well.

[@jedrula77]

Thanks for clear explanation especially about Daisy method. I always install first pair close to CPU. But i dont build so new PC. My last personal 0c from 2012 on Z77 and i7 3770K@4.7GHz 1.35V. When i check new parts i curious why labeled slots recomended install RAM to second slot pair A2B2 not A1B1.

[@-INFERNUS-]

I have F4-3200C14D 32GB 8x4 in my AsRock x470 board with a 5950x. It's working great but let me see if I'm understanding this correctly, these are dual channel single rank dimms, and now they occupy all 4 slots in my board, so that being the case do they now operate as dual rank?

[@tonkatoytruck]

So, do some CPUs have 4 memory controllers that support quad channel(Threadripper?)? Does it work or help?

[@Superbort]

Yes, my Threadripper 1950X has two channels per die and two active dies. In a dual Socket Epyc System you have 16 memory channels. If it helps depends on the application. Each die can only efficiently access the memory it is directly connected to.

[@bobhumplick4213]

yes threadripper and intel hedt have 4 channels

[@kings_pride]

older motherboards like from AM2+ or AM3 era prefered the 2 first slots for dual channel.... I wonder why?

[@TechOwnage]

in your drawing of the daisy chain and t-topology technically can the system run on dual channel config if i put ramsticks only on slot 2 and 3? why am i asking this? i can check this just by doing this myself on my computer lolx

[@rusTORK]

So, i got question: What's better for 1 DIMM per Channel: 1. 2x8GB Single Rank and High Frequency (like 4000-4400 MHz) or 2. 2x8GB Dual Rank and High Frequency (highest i saw was 3400 MHz, so maybe 3000-3400 MHz) If CPU support of 4 ranks (like Coffee lake, Skylake, Kaby Lake)? If i got it correct - single rank (1 rank per module) should be faster, since dual rank (2 ranks per module) memory load more CPU memory controller? P.S. Also, how the hell i know how many ranks my CPU support? Where i may get such information? Call to intel?

[@SkylarsTerribleMemes]

Wonder if a T-topology board with two slots on each side of the CPU would be better. Probably need like 12 layers though

[@floridaman3823]

PARASITES IN MY MOTHERBOARD???!!! AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

[@axelbostrom3606]

For ASRock I can at least say that my board clocked the same with 2x8gb and 4x4gb, both go to about 2133MHz

[@meajeesh007]

How do we know which layout our motherboard is using ? I use a B460M Aorus Pro, By the way.

[@aryannarose]

What memory trace layout does a Asus rog strix b350-f use t topology or daisy chain?

[@mrlithium69]

@Actually Hardcore Overclocking , big question, for overclocking, have you ever attached oscilloscopes or logic analyzers or even multimeters to your motherboard to try to read the signals and figure out what BIOS settings resulted in actual voltage effects?. What are the best things to measure, VCC, VDD, PCH, whatever else can be used as a mental hint to keep tweaking the settings up? Like, could you check your DIMM channels and find out if one slot is weaker or can you compare between boards ? From my NON-actually-hardcore-overclocking point of view, all I can do is basically change VCore on CPU or tighten RAM timings until it crashes. Its just Crash and reboot, crash and reboot. Its not very intelligent just trial and error. I'm looking to make better educated guesses. Cause theres about 100 other low level CPU / RAM / IMC settings in BIOS that nobody understands or changes. And you probably know what they mean, but can you "feel" or "see" the results of anything on measurement devices? I know in the past you've made videos on LLC (load line calibration) level 1-5 and you confirmed that physically. How about any other settings you can do that for? Maybe make a video on how to attach probe points to your motherboard and how to benefit from not blindly poking away in the BIOS. And the way you mod video cards is pretty dang cool, but I kind of just want to poke around and measure first.

[@truckerallikatuk]

That'd be very tricky, even with tiny o-scope probes, those are very small pins to try and probe, and one slip means a short direct to the IMC on the CPU. I guess you could modify some old sticks as breakout boards to ease probing? Maybe some of those new corsair LED filler sticks that actually just fill slots and light up and have no memory?

[@jort93z]

He did that on video before kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWe9dpmpgblohKc if thats what you are refering to.

[@Strawberrymaker]

@@truckerallikatuk solder small wires to the power pins?

[@marcinsobczak2485]

ryzen 5 3600 with 4x8 ram runs perfectly at 3600 mhz xmp.

[@PlaAwa]

i think you might be grouping the ram incorrectly. if i'm not wrong, memory channels alternate to reduce the difference in distance from cpu for each channel. this explains the colour coding and msi's 'weird' suggestion.

[@qlum]

Just looking at the manual it seems gigabyte actually does not seem to mention preferred memory slots at all. It does however number the slots from left to right 4231 so that could be seen as a small preference for 1 and 2

[@mrlithium69]

4231 _is_ the preferred memory order. Thats what they're trying to tell you. Clearly the manual needs to work on explaining things, cause you read it and barely figured it out, and you went looking for it. If someone has no idea, they would have skipped right over it.

[@qlum]

​@@mrlithium69 The numbering is literally the only mention in the manual they actually have a diagram showing both 1 and 2 or 2 and 4 as choices for 2 dims. But hey I already know it doesn't matter so really it doesn't matter. (talking about the z370 gaming 7 here)

[@ivanzovko6712]

My case: r5 5600x pbo and auto oc 4800 boost sc on some aftermarket 180w cooler, b550 asrock phantom gam 4 (cheapest maybe b550) f4 3600c16d-16gb gvkc kit 2x8 16-19-19-39 hynix memory ... On 2x8 kit all ok xmp no memtest errors didnt push timing and speed.. Getting another same kit but assumed it will work on xmp. So 4x8(2 x 2x8gb )same kit same latency will boot into win10 and work in some scenarios gaming,but I wanted to test it on memtest and there is problem :) lot errors .. For some time in research i came to 3200mhz speed in bios with some tight timings (not so great ) but maybe same latency and fps like xmp of this kit 3600@cl16 Now running 3200 cl14-16-16-18-32 on 1.42v stable on 4x8gb dimms(dual ranks as its 4xsingle ranks) Next time buying deff some bdie kit 2x16 gb --3600 mhz 😄 and not getting into troubles.

[@WafretTheWaffle]

I have Gigabyte GA-Z87-HD3 And I have 4x4GB sticks of DDR3 2 is Corsair Vengeance 1600 CL9 2 is Kingston XyperX Genesys 1866 CL11 How should i put them in slots? Right now it looks like this C|K|C|K - And that means that i have different sticks in channels? Should i put them in like this? K|K|C|C or C|C|K|K Whole bunch works on 2200Mhz 13-12-12-27 CR1 But Corsair can go up to 2400Mhz 13-14-14-31 (Yea, i know that timings are too high)

[@RyTrapp0]

Could this be why my 2x8 3600mhz Ripjaws V kit only hit 3200mhz on an [awful POS board that I absolutely despise] ASUS Prime B350 Plus, but XMP'd without a sweat at 3600mhz on an ASRock B350 Pro4(haven't tried to push the speeds yet, I need to give it a try)? Or, is there something else at play here, or is it just too many variables to realistically know? This is true with both my R3 1200 as well as my R5 1600. Anyway, really disappointed with the Prime Plus, and really surprised by the Pro4. Really happy with that Ripjaws kit too, I honestly wasn't expecting 3600mhz on ANY of these ultra budget Ryzen boards.

[@omenuawo]

THANK YOU! Too many people posting videos and explanations while they don't know what they are talking about and why and if preferred slots are preffered slots. I knew there had to be multiple memory layouts because no one really explains why placing ram into any of the slots from the different channel would or would not enable dual channel mode.

[@CanuckTech]

Did you figure out why the Z390 Master clocks ram worse than Z370 Gaming 7? Did newer BIOSes help?

[@まるもち-z1p]

8カウント笑ったわｗ

[@ShaneHerald]

and the more you know .....thanks

[@Tutankhamun1333]

i plan i building a new system based on the Asus Maximus XI formula and after reading the manual in 1.1.4 system memory, it suggests to use A2 with one stick and A2 and B2 with two sticks.

[@supremeboy]

Can you explain if there is actually difference if memory has 4gb or 8gb density on memory sticks when overcloking or it dosent matter. Maybe what matters is chat chip it uses (samsung, hynix ect) Example Kingston Hyperx 3200 CL16 16GB (8x2) Gigabyte compatibility says its 8gb density and has hynix chips. While Kingston Hyperx 3600 CL17 16GB (8x2) has 4gb density and has samsung chip. Both are single sided

[@MINECRAFTandSEB]

So daisy chain is better for 2×8 right?

[@NvidiaFanBoy]

So for a gamer / someone who won't be using Adobe Premiere or something memory intensive like that who only needs 2x8 memory sticks, the best layout is 1 dimm per channel, which is Asus Apex and Apex Gene?

[@todayonthebench]

The reason for why the nearer of the two ram sockets will work better then the other in the daisy chain setup is because it doesn't leave a long wire hanging across the board acting like a poor antenna with wild reflections and stuff. Though, the other socket not being populated on the path between CPU and the installed RAM module is also going to act like an antenna, all though a much shorter one and therefor less of a disturbance. Also, if the trace is 1/4 the wavelength of the signal of interest, then it will act as notch filter. As in, if we have a 15 cm long trace going from one of the ram sockets and out over the board, not being connected to anything, then it will be a notch filter at about 250 MHz. Though, we would in reality only expect about a centimeter or two trace going from one socket to the other, so the frequency would be much higher. (1.5-2 GHz) Though, since there isn't a massive amount of capacitance at the end of this trace, then it will not be much of a notch filter, and the reflected signal is more of a problem instead. The propagation delay of a signal migrating its way down the trace, bouncing of the end and going back up is the real thing that will nibble at the performance instead. This is though for a 1-2 cm long trace up at about 3.5-7 Ghz is where the disturbance would roughly be. And that would start to mingle with any high clock frequencies. The one dim socket per channel has the advantage of not having these un-terminated traces, and yes, technically you could likely make a "RAM" module that simply does nothing else then provide the correct termination for the signal, as to stop reflections and such from even happening. But that is likely a fiddly art to begin with, nor do I know what impedance DDR/-1/-2/-3&-4 even uses... (If they have even settled on a fixed impedance that is, they might just be railing it hard between high and low voltages without a care in the world for impedance matching...) Though, the T typology would be a trade between not needing to worry about a lot of these things. But I do wonder, would setting specific memory timings for independent channels be a nice feature to have? I have personally never seen such settings, it seems to just be a "one size fits all" kinda deal... But usually, one channel is physically closer to the CPU then the other. (Unless they are sitting on either side of the CPU. But for 2066, 3647, 2011 sockets that have more then 2 channels are though usually having a pair of "near" channels, and a pair of "far" channels. (And a pair of "really far" ones if we look at the 3647 socket, unless a motherboard manufacture decides to do a hexagon, but I doubt that would be advantageous, since a T shape would likely be more logical as to avoid the "really far" channel pair.)) Now of cores the memory controller in the CPU needs to support such miss matched timings between channels though. But it would likely increase overall memory performance, since the "near" channels wouldn't be held back by the further away channels. Not that propagation speed on a PCB would result in much. (Though, at a clock speed of 1000 MHz, we would still suspect a difference of 1 tick for every 7.5 cm of additional distance. And at a clock speed of 2 GHz, then a distance of 3.75 cm adds a tick, and that isn't far if we look at a larger system. (MY HP DL490c G6 blade servers have a bit over 8 cm extra distance for the 3rd channel for each CPU. So even these servers would likely see a small improvement.)) And hopefully this isn't too much of a text wall..... Or it likely is.

[@Ghennesph]

so that's probably why I couldn't keep 2133 stable after adding more dimms. at least 1866 works very well with low latency on this board though.

[@rickycopley4420]

I now have 2 AsRock X570 Taiichi Mother Boards, the first is now 3 years old and has worked fantastic. I just purchased the second. It would be great to see a video review of the AsRock X570 Taichi, reviewing the memory for and gaming & video use of the board.

[@Rigardoful]

Is there any chance I get get over 3400Mhz on T-Topology with 4 dimms?(MSI b450 Gaming Pro Carbon)

[@gabrielwong1991]

If i want to run 64gb 3600 mhz (16gb x4) on zen3 and push the ram a bit, does that mean it is better with 32gb x2 ram in daisy chain mb setup?

[@alimobarak2298]

Pog

[@KiSs0fd3aTh]

Im really late to this party, but very interesting video. On my z490 ace which afaik is T-topology I was getting 4400c17, so I assume most mobos can max out the actual ddr4 kits out there, so does topology really matter at the end?

[@DragonForce1393]

Hey buildzoid, I hear you often say "training the memory"? What does this mean? Do you have a video or resources about it?

[@antong3987]

... yeah ... " you're not aware of" a lot

[@mytube001]

How important is the distance from the CPU to the RAM slots for speed? If it makes a big difference, then why not ditch the silly single-side ATX layout and place the RAM slots directly behind the CPU on the back side. I've long been amazed at how spatially inefficient the single-sided mobo design is. A double-sided would make much better use of the space.

[@PhatboyHD88]

Yea my EVGA Z370 FTW board had a sticker on the dimms saying populate slots 2 and 4 first ....i thought at first that was odd considering that my previous board asus x58 extreme 3 board you had to populate the dimm closest to cpu first,, i never really understood the reasoning until now thanks buddy for helping me understand why ...great video...

[@apollo0117]

How do these topologies stack up on server mother boards? i know servers have a whole other level giving options surrounding, ecc, memorry spanning, numa configuration, mirroring .. ect. im just curious about if the majority of high memory capacity servers are running have a better approach then the topologies listed. Servers in my experiance are so so so much more picky about dim placement and matching timings / ranks accross channels. could you make a video exporering that. for example the average dual socket server mobo has 24 to 18 dim slots with quad chanel or three channel memory respectively. just wondering how topoligy plays out with these less consumer techs.

[@nbg3698]

Hi Buildzoid, I see you have a great knowledge about gpus and those things. I am planning to buy a rtx 2080ti from asus, the one you named the best in your video published on the gamers nexus channel. I want a great gpu performance for gaming and also i want to start in all the overclocking world. Do you recommend me to buy it or wait for the prices (the one i am talking about costs 1500$, the asus 011g rtx 2080ti) to lower some time. Also I can wait for the new generation of gpu from amd to go out. What should i do?

[@yooanto9465]

asus rampage !! can run quad ram at max 90 k read

[@davidjenkins852]

Build Zoid, you mess around with motherboard just because you're bored? Lol!!!! You sound like me. I tinker around with everything about computers just because I'm bored.

[@cosmicfxx]

Hi … old video but great thanks … why would there be 4 slots on daisy chain if 4 slots degrade performance… why not just make it 2 only slots?

[@JustusS2036]

Amazing video! I was hoping to find a quick and simple 2 minute video to get the answer, but this was absolutely worth the watch!!

[@brunogm]

Could you do a followup on dual-rank interleaving?

[@ZephCloud]

2x16GB trident z royal 3200mhz cl16 works great...

[@magnapeccatrix]

Using msi x99s sli plus, looks like 8 memory slots daisy chain 4x4GB in use. So if I fill other 4 slots will I get lower performance? I was thinking about buying identical 4x4 ddr4 kit to what I am using.

[@raymanovich3254]

With daisy chain, why is it generally the second slot in a "chain" that performs best? That seems kind of counter intuitive to me.

[@crashbug4343]

It's just the way the circuit is wired and so it depends on the motherboard

[@TheGyuuula]

You made a mistake on the second illustration, you connected the neighboring DIMMs, but you should have cross them over (connect every second DIMM to a channel)

[@WXSTANG]

Hmm... good info... I am a purest... I actually like 1dpc... more speed please. Which home user actually uses more then 32gb? I find even 16gb is too much.

[@user-nq3xi4wm2k]

Wapn Perfo I use 15GB on rust

[@TIGERARSGT]

Thank you, simple and clear! I have Z270 MSI M7 + 7700K at 5.1 Gz, my RAM is 4x4 Corsair 4000 hz (stock frequency), unfortunately not stable, even thou my mobo supports 4133 hz. I dropped frequency to 3903 and lowered timings so now it works great. I thought what my CPU memory controller is weak but looks like having 2x8 memory sticks is a smarter idea.

[@mrlithium69]

God, memory Ranks are so damn confusing. This just reminded me of trying to figure out the memory controllers on a server with 16 slots , 4 channels, and 2 CPU's. You can fill the slots, but then your speed goes to shit. Or it works with 4-Rank dimms too, but you also can't fill it. (and a thousand other quirks) Thanks for trying to clear up the subject.

[@Arokhantos]

18:05 i remember jay drilled holes into motherboard to mount a block which was huge mistake, im sure you remember to :)

[@torutara87]

man, i came here expecting to not understand a thing, instead, i'm very thankful to this guy explaining this stuff so simply. thanks bro!

[@mutantbaby1672]

So how do I find out what layout Gigabyte B550 Vision D is before buying one?

[@2ndLastJedi]

Do you gain enough going 4x 8 dual rank on a daisy chain board to justify the lower clocks?

[@AlphaKilo09]

No way I would have learned this much of heavy info if it's not for you. Thanks a lot and keep rambling. Even more, seriously.

[@FXPC_Phoenix92471]

my system i am going to build ram : F4-3600C16Q-64GTZNC mobo : MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS cpu : ryzen 9 3900x lots of people say it works good at ddr-3600........ i never over clock.......over clocking it can wreck the hardware.... that i paid $$$ lots money for..... i just want it to work..........

[@FXPC_Phoenix92471]

OK so ram is sold as a product with a specific speed and that speed is what you purchased it for, im saying, let's say the ram is sold to you and then they say it's DDR4-3600.... Which actually that is the XMP or DOCP profile....... In other words, I purchased 3600 ram, so therefore the ram should just automatically work at 3600 ... I get that, OK, I gotta go in and set it, to tell it to use the XMP profile, and that's acceptable, as long as it easy..... But even that is too much effort (i.m.o.) it should be automatic, the low end profile should be the XMP profile.... but i get the default low end is for guaranteed compatibility...........

[@FXPC_Phoenix92471]

And yes also the price you pay is directly related to the speed that it's marketed as, so a brand at 3200 would usually be costing less money than 3600.... example DDR4-3600 16-19-19-19 cost $380.00 & DDR4-3600 16-16-16-16 cost $500+ & is out of stock..... it is all the same stuff....... it just happens to be able to run at the 16-16-16... and that's why they charge more.....

[@FXPC_Phoenix92471]

Important part is that it works.......... and that what I paid for, is what I get ................. the end.........

[@jh1904]

Using the same memory sticks, shouldn't Daisy Chain perform better than T-Topology in 2x16 configuration?

[@brovid-19]

*more **_clearlier_* you're welcome.

[@jukkapekkaylitalo]

Can y make video of pro memory OC for RAMs. I am trying to tighten up my RAM timings, but some settings are little hard to understand. I would love to learn more about them.

[@AidGum]

so does this affect games in any way?

[@laurelsporter]

Not on its own. It affects how fast certain RAM configurations can run, which definitely can affect performance, especially min FPS.