Ramirez Neck Angle Adjustment - Lutherie Academy

[@filoavignonesi2128]

watch out. many of those cedar cedar ramirez instead of having an angle planed into the underside of the fretboard tongue to allow for the forward neck angle, have a reverse radius built into the upper transverse brace, i. e. the upper transverse brace is not flat, but concave to allow the fretboard glueing surface to be lower than the soundboard plane and sometimes it is that transverse brace that's not strong enough and the whole fretboard and neck end up dipping a little too far forward.

[@2011Noud]

A very useful warning!

[@ConstrutorMusical]

Great content, as always, Robert!

[@OBrienGuitars]

Muito obrigado Jonatas.

[@jeffroberts4702]

Watching this video is why I would love to come to your school. I have so much to learn, great video Robert!

[@OBrienGuitars]

Thank you Schedule a time to come and build a guitar with me.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Nice Robbie. I love the dead blow hammer sound sped up!

[@densomerglad8421]

Great job, great explanation as always, thank You Robert O'Brien.

[@scottanderson6807]

Funny enough, 4.5 mm action is quite standard for the old Ramirez guitars. Thats the way they were designed and they’re great if you have the hands, technique and gusto to play them. If you want an easy-to-play guitar, its probably not your best fit. They like muscle, you can’t get the growl and enormity of sound with low action on those.

[@cristianomusicas31]

Great Robert O'Brien!

[@HotZTrain]

Ramirez classicals gave the long scale instruments a bad rap. People seem to think that they are difficult to play because of the 664mm scale length. That's not the case...just look at Jose Oribe's long scales 665mm, they play like cutting hot butter, David Schramm the same and many other long scale builders. With Ramirez, it's the total set up, the taper in the finger board and the incorrect neck angle. It's hard to find a Ramirez, especially any older ones, with a proper neck angle. Also, classical players seem to think they need a 4mm action at the 12th fret. IMO, 3mm is much better. (6th string).

[@hni7458]

3.5 and 2.5, ha ha Rob, exactly what I've got on my guitar.

[@Smokeycam1]

Robert, Have you ever replaced a fretboard on a classical guitar. I have a mid-60's guitar has about 4.5mm action at 12th fret. It doesn't have enough fretboard depth (currently 5mm) to plane the nut end to achieve 4mm or less at 12th fret. How feasible is this?

[@OBrienGuitars]

Yes, take a look at this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKu6qYuNadmfo6Msi=WWYmi-eUrdkfQpaw

[@Smokeycam1]

@OBrienGuitars many thanks!

[@That52TeleGuy]

So neck reset not possible on a Spanish heal neck, thanks for that knowledge, did not know. Curious if this was a Ramirez 1a or maybe a 2a? Is this a once in the life of fret broad repair with next step a new fretboard? Thanks!

[@troutfishinggermany9186]

Hey Rob, thanks for another great video. Question: is there no radius to the fretboard as in steelstring guitars?

[@OBrienGuitars]

Thank you. There is no radius on the fretboard. You could easily put a radius on it if you like.

[@CorbenEdward]

Sick video, the only flaw I see in this is removing material and less wood being there thus making it easier for string tension to bend the neck forward again. I would rather bend the neck back with heat a bit and if it needs a re-fret, just go with taller frets.

[@markochomba8755]

Good morning, I have read in some classical guitar forums that the neck for this type of guitar compared to acoustic guitars should be somewhat curved or concave. Is that true? Or should it be straight as a rule?

[@OBrienGuitars]

Some people make them flat and others put a relief in them. Both are correct.

[@barrylipman442]

What about slipping the heel? I’ve done that on Ramirez, Humphrey, and other classical guitars. It leaves the fretboard at its original dimensions. I’ve seen more than a few instruments with severely tapered fretboards where a heel-slip procedure would have done the job less intrusively.

[@OBrienGuitars]

That is certainly a viable alternative.

[@larryatha3221]

Fastest fret job ever!

[@alexmeleshenko4834]

Most agree for a steel string guitar a bolt on neck preserves the legacy of the guitar---here is an example Mr. Obrien is pointing out and I have personally seem many classical guitars that had over the years evolved to be difficult or impossible to play---A bolt on neck is just not for steel strings---it is for classical's as well---to preserve the guitar's legacy for over a hundred years. A tightly fitted bold on neck---there is no loss of sound as some claim a permanently set neck sounds better---not true---a tightly fitted bolt on neck is the way to go for both classical and steel string--What is your opinion of this Mr. Obrien? m

[@OBrienGuitars]

There are many examples of builders that use other joints than the traditional Spanish neck joint.

[@zeusprometheus9602]

How much does that cost? Thanks

[@mullerss1]

I didn't get: why you should not do a neck reset?

[@e.directmarketing932]

Hey, how much does that repair cost? Thanks!

[@Smokeycam1]

Hey Robert, Love your videos! I've got a couple of guitars with this problem. Fortunately, it's not as bad as the Ramirez you have there. I am thinking about some light sanding and refretting with taller frets, going to a 2.28 x 1.40mm wire. I've seen discussions that the taller frets make barre chords easier. Your thoughts?

[@OBrienGuitars]

That might work. However, once the frets are off re-evaluate and see if you can benefit from this technique before re-installing frets.

[@denniskwasnycia1950]

Great video! When measuring at the bridge, what were you aiming for there for height?

[@OBrienGuitars]

just enough to get me the action needed at the 12th fret. Measure your existing saddle height and the current action and do your calculations to know how much adjustment is needed to get the target action with the correct amount of saddle exposed from the bridge.

[@Jackofallthetrades]

No glue used for the refret, I see. Is that a personal choice, or a choice specific to Spanish/Classical guitars?

[@OBrienGuitars]

The video doesn't show me inserting the glue during the fretwork. I do use glue though.

[@sewing1243]

With that guitar there appeared that the fret-board had a lot of extra thickness. If there isn't the required wood to do the method demonstrated what would be the options with a guitar with a neck like that?

[@KeithMGuitarist]

You can take the fretboard off and add a long wedge underneath it, tapering away to the nut. That is a much more difficult repair.

[@OBrienGuitars]

You could also just replace the fretboard with a new one.

[@TheBoomtown4]

If I want to lower say for example 1 mm at 12th fret, how much do I take down at the nut end? Is it the same or does 1 mm at the 12 drop it .5 or 1.5 at 12th for example?

[@dinamoarg]

If you want 1mm down at 12th fret you must remove 2mm at the bridge, remember that 12th fret is exactly half of scale length so it's going to move half of what you move at the end point. On the other hand, the nut height depends on first fret height, you can check it by fretting on third fret (G) and tapping right over the first fret (F), the gap between string and first fret should be minimal but not zero, because then you might get open string buzz. 🍻

[@TheBoomtown4]

@@dinamoarg Im good for nut measuring, use the same method to measure. That makes sense doubling the drop due to scale length, thanks!

[@walterhambrick8705]

That is an interesting way of fixing it. As a guitarist that is something I would never try. I wouldn't get past the restringing of that type of guitar.

[@AnthonyTopper]

Why was a neck reset not an option?

[@OBrienGuitars]

Because it is a classical guitar with a traditional Spanish heel.

[@louishayes2173]

Is my geometry thinking correct : When we lower the action at the saddle we lower it by a factor of 2 in order to get the desired height at the 12th. So lowering the action at the nut end , I would remove the wood by a factor of .5. i.e. in order to lower the action at the 12th by 2mm I will begin by removing 1mm at the nut?

[@OBrienGuitars]

Your geometry is correct. However, not all guitars have enough wood on the fretboard at the nut to take that much off.

[@louishayes2173]

Thanks for the heads up. I will pull a taught line from the nut to the saddle to see if the fretboard has enough material. And I would also like to thank you for the very timely reply. @@OBrienGuitars

[@rodparker4514]

Beauty.Thanks .

[@AlvaroGomesLuthier]

👏👏👏

[@thierrymontegut1971]

ok, but this method makes the neck thinner. Not good for playability. And durability too ! (with light strings gauge, maybe...)

[@euhdink4501]

+ the action of 3.5 to 2.5 mm! That is totally unplayable except for campfire chords.

[@herbertulloa4726]

I don’t understand why you have cut the fingerboard , Ramirez make guitar for professional guitar player , the practice about 6 or 8 hours every day and they have stronger fingers, so the string are higher. The easy repair is only adjusting in the bridges. You hear like you want to let Ramirez is appendices. They have been making for about 150 years

[@MrCacciLLo]

The action was high because the Neck was bowed. So the neck itself was the problem and it should be straightened. Instead of solving the reason of the problem, the neck, the fingerboard that was not the culprit was filled and wood removed from it. The neck is still bowed. really don't get this video

[@dalgguitars]

64ths please for us plebes.

[@euhdink4501]

you poor people are in the minority 🙂