Random Guy Has Meltdown Because Of My Views On Tokenized Characters

[@QuothTheRavenclaw11]

Artist: "We should make Spider-Man a muslim lesbian." Tokenizer: "Sure! That could work!" Artist: "Alright. Let's make Black Panther a Mexican." Tokenizer: "No! Don't do that!"

[@GREG_Khar-NÜ-Metalhead2000]

The funny things is... muslim is not okay with gayness....haha...world is fckd up

[@WisnuNurAlam]

@@GREG_Khar-NÜ-Metalhead2000 well this is SJW we are talking about, anything could happen in their world.

[@monchelmitchell]

@Neil Brown Faith & sexual orientation are 2 different things. Their sexual perversion is view no different before God in the same manner as being an adulter or being home. Sin is Sin we choose what is acceptable and deal with the consequences later.

[@rcbmmines4579]

Neil Brown to be fair Christians don’t approve of it but can’t condemn people for it. On the other hand Muslims outright ban it and some would straight up execute them. It’s baffling why SJWs would be very pro Muslim yet anti Christian while simultaneously going far with supporting LGBT. Almost like they don’t actually have real virtues and ideals.

[@monchelmitchell]

@@rcbmmines4579 very simple in the SWJ world they believe everything they do is for the greater good when it's actually not. It's a cash grab and lazy creativity. You want people to respect different lifestyles & point of views, then do the right thing and allow that person to create and speak for themselves vs. You making them a mascot for argument sake.

[@Telkor]

Apparently there are full grown adults out there that need to have a specific race, gender or sexual orientation show up in all manner of stories and media so that the world we live in doesnt forget that they exist. That awareness though.

[@NachoBran_CandyCabbage]

At some point you have to wonder if their ideal comic is just a collection of characters descriptions with a breakdown of their "traits".

[@kiko485]

Telkor I KNOW RIGHT?!

[@MetalThornTree]

Beta Ray Bill wasn't even a Thor, he was still himself but with Thor's power/worthiness. Perhaps the guy would have had less to say if he half knew what he was even talking about.

[@Legendary_Detective-Wobbuffet]

If they made Storm a cricket playing, raisin eating white man, we'd be just as mad too. It's not race, it's terrible business practices we're angry about.

[@kidoliva]

What about a cricket playing, mango eating Indian. Why don't we have Indian superheros? You could have something pulled from mythology, like Krishna.

[@Legendary_Detective-Wobbuffet]

@@kidoliva there was an Indian version of Spider-Man actually. No one cared at all way back then. You brought up an interesting point. If representation was so important, why haven't they made more historical/mythological based stories? They only care about skin color and not what makes us actually different and interesting to each other.

[@jiminlong7096]

@@Legendary_Detective-Wobbuffet During the Spiderverse event? That wasn't too long ago and yes people cared. Tokenism has always been bs

[@Legendary_Detective-Wobbuffet]

@@jiminlong7096 no, it was way before the Spiderverse. Maybe in late 90s.

[@GerudoRamirez]

I'm glad you're out here educating people. Sounds like to me he's literally mad at the definition of the word , how does someone arrive these kinda conclusions ?

[@Missrena1000]

He’s an ideologue. What do u expect.

[@TrianglePants]

"BECAUSE YOU TOLD ME TOOOOOOO"

[@LarkinsLair]

I personally don’t consider a character to be tokenized as long as they have the following qualifiers. 1. Their purpose of their existence does not revolve around their “token”. 2. The story of their existence makes sense. For example I think it’s plausible for Tony Stark to make Pepper Pots her own suit of armor. I know I would if I could 🙂 3. It can not replace an existing characters characteristics.

[@flynndwt2298]

Larkin's Lair I also see it as some characters can be created for the sake of being a Token... but some can grow out of it... altho there are some ppl who write/try to keep them just as the color of their skin

[@gloomykasumi8580]

2 is already false tho. Is War Machine black iron man? No. They fight completely different.

[@derekosgood3230]

@@gloomykasumi8580 lol

[@erictheguapo]

These people argue out of emotions. They do not make sense and bank on the hope that the crowd will support their emotional outburst.

[@dartheinnulfr8986]

I think he's confused! Just mad to be mad and missed what you meant completely!

[@scottmcgregor562]

Wow, before social media we had people who loved to hear themselves talk now we have people who love to read their own thoughts. I get the feeling that this is a normie who doesn't even care about comic books. He just cares about what is in comic books or movies. He is an sjw who feels that they haven't been inclusive in representing people that he feels have been marginalized. He knows nothing.

[@MrCurtisChapman]

Also being tokenized isn't inherently a bad thing, the guy automatically considers it an insult. Tokenized characters typically indicate bad writing which leads to a bad character, but being tokenized in itself isn't what is wrong with it. The writing usually makes it all about what makes the character "token", which is what makes the characters suck.

[@Flistatec]

True. I personally don't have a problem with, for example, Cindy Moon as Silk. I don't have the feeling that she is all about being Asian or female.

[@Bushybrow000]

This is probably the most simplified version how to explain what makes a tokenized character tokenized.

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

Green lantern = Space police, so ya.

[@mpsorrentino]

When an uninformed person tries to argue with an informed person.

[@michaelbracko8754]

Obviously this dude does not watch your videos or read comics, this man said “black captain america”, the character’s name is patriot lol

[@ferrarriohh]

Michael Bracko Black Captain America. You mean Danielle Cage you sexist! Jk forreal tho, why is Alan Davis the ONLY writer/artist at Marvel able to make derivative spinoffs work for me.

[@alexubel]

Isaiah Bradley is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. The character is depicted as an early product of the United States' Super-Soldier program (codenamed Project: Rebirth) during World War II and an alternate version of Captain America. He even went by Captain America. That's who he was talking about.

[@michaelbracko8754]

alexubel oh wow thanks, I didn’t know that

[@hephaestus6365]

@@alexubel I did not know that. I assumed he meant Sam Wilson when he got the shield in the comics.

[@alexubel]

@@hephaestus6365 I personally didn't consider Sam a tokenized Captain America until they brought Steve Rogers back. That was the moment he became the token Captain America to me.

[@Nemesis0921]

So judging from the first couple of lines he doesn't understand what tokenism is. And did he seriously just disrespect Beta Ray Bill like that...."horse faced alien" smh

[@jonathanhoward9533]

Someone needs to just Google the concept of a token. It makes sense from there

[@blue_marvel1007]

There are characters that Marvel and DC don't use because it doesn't fit their agenda. They would much rather change big name characters, because of their notoriety.

[@story_of_the_year_fan]

Not sure why the only young avengers they use anymore are Kate bishop and America Chavez.

[@takeoffyourblinkers]

So they start of with a strawman, well this gonna be good.

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

"You need NO actual purpose for replacing an existing hero with a white person, but need SPECIAL SUPER DEEP and MEANINGFUL reasons if the SAME thing happens but with a woman, or a black, asian or hispanic person?" In the past 30 years or so how many non-white characters were made into white characters? And how many women characters were made into male characters? I bet you could count them on a lepers left hand. Also I point to Jason Todd as the prime example of a white male replacement being about as well received as any of these tokenisd characters. EVERY character needs a SPECIAL SUPER DEEP and MEANINGFUL reason to replace or exist beside an existing character.

[@calcifur]

Thank you. It's like people dont even care about quality anymore. Shitty writing is shitty writing. No one should be able to say I wrote this shitty movie, but theres gay asians in it so no one would dare criticize it. Well, at least not twice.

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

@Speedzone Speedforce You know I often wonder about that...

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

@Speedzone Speedforce I love word play, puns and alliteration. =D

[@dbears1603]

@Speedzone Speedforce never thought that given their difference s

[@dbears1603]

@Speedzone Speedforce if I remember right wonder man was a criminal and was experimented on or had an accidental that turned him into a being of living energy and his power comes from that where as wonder woman is magically created or a Demi goddess given given powers by several gods like Shazam and has magical armor and weapons

[@Topgamer357]

This is the downfall of western society. We have never been softer or more divided. Hopefully we will prevail through the dark times ahead.

[@QuothTheRavenclaw11]

I'm sure we will. All centuries have a dark period and we're not all dead yet.

[@alexubel]

@@Scoring57 You truly are ignorant aren't you. The Civil War wasn't about slavery. It was about the same thing the War for Independence was about. Taxation. Hell Lincoln didn't even want to end slavery, and was even on record saying such. He just knew it would hurt the South more than the North. Slavery existed in the North as well...not just the South. Free black land owners (and yes there certainly were some) even owned black slaves.

[@MrNickPresley]

@@alexubel It was about state rights. The Confederacy didn't take very kindly to the government telling them how to run their states, and decided to break away from the Union. Slavery was a minor point in there, but it was by no means the only cause for the war.

[@lamedrawings]

@@Scoring57 I swear I've seen ur profile picture before but I just can't put my finger on it

[@MrNickPresley]

​@@Scoring57 Remove human rights? That's assuming that slaves actually had any rights-- which they didn't, because they're slaves. At best, slaves were seen as farm equipment. Secondly, who the fuck is "making excuses for slavery" here, shitdick? All I'm saying is that the factors leading up to the Civil War were a bit more complex, and a lot more numerous than you think they are. So, please, fuck off and pick up any of the fuck-tons of books on the subject before you come at me with that antisemitic bullshit. God, and you wonder why people think you're a retard.

[@dissonantvibe8585]

I don't want any copy cat characters. It's dumb & lazy. Come up with original characters. If you want diverse characters, create unique ones. What does it say when you create a race or gender bent version of an existing character? That no one could possibly be interested in an original female or minority character. I concede there are a few good exceptions like She Hulk, but there aren't many...so cut it f*cking out

[@kbforme]

Dude you have some sweet ball caps.

[@lootskywalker3008]

The stupid thing about Female Thor is that Thor was his name, Not a Title

[@henryjenkins2839]

BenUptSns71 Bruh “Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy shall possess the POWER of Thor” Wielding the hammer gives you the POWER of Thor not his name.

[@henryjenkins2839]

BenUptSns71 Bruh 🤦‍♂️.......NO! Thor doesn’t stop being Thor when someone else wields his hammer. He doesn’t automatically lose his powers, it just gives the wielder powers LIKE Thor. When Beta Ray Bill wielded the hammer he didn’t call himself Thor, he was still Beta Ray Bill.

[@RaveSault]

@BenUptSns71 Bruh Yes, and Captain America became Thor, God of Thunder, the moment he lifted and used the power of his hammer. Jesus tap dancing christ, even in the MCU, when whatshername crushed his hammer to bits, you think he's no longer Thor!? Guess what, he still is, and his still got his godly powers depsite wielding no hammer *Thor Odinson* is his name, "God of Thunder" is one of his many titles. Period. The writers of FemThor just wants to justify Jane Foster as THE Thor.

[@henryjenkins2839]

RaveSault Damn straight!

[@pixiebubbles2628]

I just call them "Knock-Off Sues" ("KO Sues"). I've come across MANY, it's very easy to spot once you've gained exposure. "KO Sues" are very similar to the "Mary Sue" or is a branch off, where the inserted character is either a gender swapped variant (as in: Male to Female or vice versa) or has a changed color pallet (as in: Orig. Character has blue eyes, KO Sue gets orange. Including skin, hair, & clothes). The inserted character gains the title and/or powers of the original, including a near identical backstory to the original or has some connection/link to the original. Usually for the KO Sue to be related is to have the Original being the parent, cousin, uncle/aunt, grandparent; (including a fellow member of a Tribe, Clan, or descendant of a common ancestor); to the Insert. Any form of blood relation to "explain" why the KOS is basically identical. If not, then a student-mentor relation. Apprentice is also common. Including any mention of some Prophecy or Destiny has been used. Paranormal or Supernatural entities or creatures can be used, (example: werewolf bite). Others is when the Insert is a long-lost friend to the Original, (example: The John Hammand rip-off in JW2) In the case of comics, it's the theft of the torch. (Note: I have not found any Blood-Pack situations. And only 1 case of blood transfusion.) KO Sues are naturally pulled by the plot and what the story demands. They are also very uninteresting as a character/person; yet is somehow beloved by all others, including by strangers or antagonist. Another natural occurrence is the "Plot Protection", this can range from sudden appearing & disappearing of items or characters in a scene. Another is when the KOS is miraculously not hurt or damaged by a situation that would have caused serious injury or fatality; constantly able to dodge every punch/kick/blast/bullet/etc. aimed their way. Another natural occurrence is the unimportance of resolving the problem, the uninteresting resolve, and antagonist force that is not threatening. Finally, the "No Growth", which is when the character is the same as they were from the beginning. Being stagnant throughout the entire story. This is not a case of a Flat Positive* or Flat Negative* character trait, because unlike the two Flats, no other characters evolve when exposed to the insert or they have the opposite reaction and reverse their evolving personality. *A Flat Positive character (Goku) remains relatively the same from start to end, with some growth. Meanwhile everyone around the Flat Positive evolve in character for the better. *A Flat Negative (Freiza) also remains the same from start to end. While also making others around them more villainous. Thanks to the ability of not having hardships, and uninspired moments, the KOS does not allow anything to stick - but if the writer remembers, that moment might get mentioned long after the audience forgot or no longer care. Some may include a character death or sacrifice that hold nothing onto the KOS, other than a maybe occasional nightmare: because the writer remembered that scene was supposed to be traumatizing.

[@NachoBran_CandyCabbage]

Why not token-sues?

[@pixiebubbles2628]

@@NachoBran_CandyCabbage That works too

[@HippieSkippy100]

Pixie Bubbles - Respect, that’s a good take. Personally, I don’t mind token characters if they provide a fresh outlook. I kind of think of tokens as “What if” versions. Just my opinion. I think they bring in new elements (even if they are cheesy, as long as it’s fun) I like that. Because if we are being real here, there’s tons of characters that are ripoffs, then spinoffs, etc. some of them people really enjoy.

[@VideaVice25]

Ripoffs are not really an issue when written well. The problem with these copycat versions is that their enter the mythos of a far better character like parasites, put him down to elevate themselves, and since the most important thing about them is a superficial trait and not their heroism, they're usually lack personality and they're intouchable.

[@briannawilliams3155]

Video aside, nice Venom hat! Where did you get it? 🤔

[@donnymckee7380]

I got what appears to be the same hat for a buddy at Spirit Halloween in October.

[@gloomykasumi8580]

Those hats are everywhere lmao. Hot topic, Spencer’s, Amazon..

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

An interesting tokenized character to look at is April O'Niel from TMNT. In the latest TMNT cartoon (which sucks imo), They tokenized her and made her black. Some say she was originally black in the comics and point to a cover of her with tight curly hair as proof (she just has a perm, which was popular in the 80's), if you look inside the comics, at earlier cover and later covers she is clearly white. Laird thinks Eastman imagined her as mixed (Black/White), Though she was actually Asian in early sketches of the character... Btw, have you ever noticed how many red heads get tokenized into black people? There is quite a lot.

[@JenniferMcMahonhawaii78]

You know people only care about starting a fight over just tokenization when they completely forget that DC has the JLC or Justice League of China; that just recently came out in 2016 to 2018.. I'm betting the reason it didn’t get the “fanfare” that Marvel typically gets is because in the JLC there wasn’t any SJW BS (at least that I noticed) but it did what a comic and story are supposed to do; which is introduce exciting characters, plot and overall story...not focusing on duping a populace with oppression to exploit it for money; and when you're reading you know when that line has been crossed.

[@toastywhiteboy7822]

Jen McMahon thank god a women like you are helping us look less discriminatory. 👌

[@jiminlong7096]

The tokenization was there being a JLC with their own Superman, Batman, Wonder woman. Thats still tokenization

[@henryjenkins2839]

As soon as Rippa put this guy’s comment onscreen, I immediately recognized his profile pic and said “Oh it’s THIS douche bag” I’ve seen him in the comments section of other videos (along with some guy with a hulk profile pic) and he would defend tokenized bullshit whenever he got the chance.

[@christophershafer5401]

Sometimes tokenized characters aren't bad, sometimes they rise above tokenization. But it's still tokenism.

[@eggsnspam]

In those cases, it makes you wish that they just made a whole new character with a tie in to the original. Batwoman has some good story arcs but it would've been better if she was her own and not a tokenized version of Batman. Kind of like how Catwoman is her own thing and WonderWoman is her own thing.

[@christophershafer5401]

@@eggsnspam My only thing is I get annoyed when the industry tries to act like chirning out hot lesbian and/or bisexual woman is stunning and brave or some shit. No issue with the character, but a stay-at-home mom with a husband and kids would make more controversy these days. Granted it was riskier in 2006, which is probably why they couldn't risk slacking on the writing. Now it's "dis gay luv it".

[@HippieSkippy100]

Sounds like he’s confused or trying to ask rhetoric?

[@brewdus]

When Marvel or DC is changing the race/gender/orientation of characters to be more "woke" or to virtue signal, then they are "token" characters. When they make an original character who is of a different race/gender/orientation as part of a character trait or to give that character a different point of view, that character isn't a token. Sam Wilson as Falcon is an interesting character. Sam Wilson as Captain America is a token.

[@stephenmarkcounts]

Man I love these vids. You're great at breaking down arguments.

[@arcanask]

5:30 Beta Ray Bill is not fucking Thor! He's never been Thor! Lifting Mjolnir does not turn you into THOR! How many fucking times are we gonna do this? Jane should never have become Thor. FUCK.

[@artistpenguin5890]

The really funny thing is that when it comes to all of the identity politics NPCs, once they see a minority that disagrees with them (or even kinda-sorta disagrees) they go mental. It kinda looks like "you goddamn ingrate, I fight this culture war for you, and you dare to not agree with me? Screw you!" Hell hath no fury like an activist scorned, indeed)

[@machomaam4975]

Copycat characters and tokenized characters are the same thing, inferior copies of the original. They are both the products of lazy storytelling. That this dude gets so worked up about only the token characters shows much about his issues.

[@HippieSkippy100]

Macho Ma'am - I kindly disagree. Look at Shazam and Superman. Shazam was a straight copycat but at his peak he was outselling Superman. I think tokenized characters CAN be great IF they are well written. Look at Miles Morales vs. Ben Reilly. Miles was well received.

[@chrisfine6013]

HippieSkippy100 that’s a false equivalency. Imitating successful heroes made by other creators is completely different than changing a successful hero’s identity for agenda purposes. Even though Shazam was a rip-off of Superman, it was subtle and he had his own distinct story powers and environment that was compelling on its own. A company tokenizing its own characters isn’t comparable to a company creating characters to compete with another company’s characters- both are naked cash grabs and rarely successful, and neither is right. But they ain’t the same thing.

[@alexubel]

@@chrisfine6013 In the early days he had the same powers as Superman. He just got them a different way, but even Shazam didn't start flying until Superman started flying in DC. Up until then, both of them could just jump long distances.

[@chrisfine6013]

alexubel A company trying to emulate the success of another company’s character for sales is not the same thing as a company tokenizing their own character for representation

[@mw2424]

I think that dude deleted his comment lol must of watched this video already and got embarrassed 😂

[@victorpleitez768]

Probably deleted his account

[@TerraExodus]

Where do I get that cap?

[@johnhendricks1998]

I would rather a Capt Falcon, than him being Capt America. I think they should only be one Capt America.

[@adaeptzulander2928]

American Falcon sounds good.

[@michaelwhitmire9015]

US. falcon or star-bird sounds good

[@jamalexa2006]

Some people need to get a life. All that convoluted thought over your thoughts about comic book characters.

[@davidd4696]

😂😂. I love my comic books, but the shit aint that serious lol

[@lillpoetboy]

I have never heard of " pearl clutching" before. Awesome

[@righteouslydefiant5362]

Definitely gonna use that one

[@patrickbuckley7259]

YoungRippa59: "This usually happens to the white characters." Me: You wanna see something trippy, look at how often said race washed white character is Redheaded. SJW's apparently hate Red Heads!

[@henryjenkins2839]

Glad I’m not the only one who noticed that. It’s always redheads....🤔

[@patrickbuckley7259]

​@@henryjenkins2839 I'm surprised it's not a meme yet. Another fun thing to look for in pop culture in general is the unthreatening gay minority male! Or the paragonic white male "hero" turned supervillain for dumb reasons! Or the gender flipped historical figure with a massive chip on her shoulder. All coming to a theater near you! No, Seriously! (Edit: I'm sorry, I am a strange, strange, little man)

[@henryjenkins2839]

Yeah, you’d think it’d be a meme by now.

[@vladimirvendeyes6325]

Great video btw You breakdown your argument clear and I thoroughly agree. The intellectual and emotional validation pandering is insulting and the people who accept the tokenizing are too stupid to realize they're being manipulated

[@TheEpo77]

I always like when someone tries to alter the original argument so that they can have something to argue about. Haha (Great Video)

[@kiko485]

I love how people like this lack the ability to get a point across to someone they disagree with without being as condescending and disrespectful as humanly possible. Also, why did he leave a comment that's the length of a college essay? It's super weird.

[@ReasonablySkeptic]

I don't think this guy understands what "tokenized character" means. It's when someone (marvel, dc, etc) take an existing superhero, and change the gender and/or race in order to pretend they are diverse. Here are a few reasons why it's bad 1) It's lazy! They couldn't be bothered to create a deep intricate character, for that race and/or gender. Instead they made a last minute character. 2) It's disrespectful! They could have come up with a new unique character of that race or gender but they gave them sloppy seconds instead. 3) It's bastardizes the character. After years of writers working this character, developing stories, flaws, strengths, basically giving it life, they throw it away so some studio can pretend to care about some minority. Messed up. There are SO MANY MORE reasons this is messed up but basically EVERYONE should be able to identify a original character vs a tokenized one, and NO ONE should support the tokenized ones. After all they are more offensive to the group they are pretending to support than they are helpful. I can't imagine hating blacks or gays or women or whatever SO MUCH that i could not be bothered to make a NEW original hero representing them, and instead just bastardized an existing character and did so in the laziest sloppyest way possible. Talk about offensive, how could you support that?

[@ricogonz1979]

Ive seen many of your videos and now I've subscribed. You have a lot of knowledge on the subject and talk a lot of sence. Keep up the good work. I believe knowledge is power and ignorance is a downfall.

[@redpool5324]

*Guy has meltdown over Rippa's opinion* Business as usual. Lol.

[@youngrippa59]

hahaha right?

[@redpool5324]

@@youngrippa59 It's either an SJW, or t Liberals known as Republicans (Prince& your Livestream reference).

[@mikemercury5654]

When I was a kid I used to like She Hulk . She's probably my favorite tokenized character .

[@tegandetermann3299]

Bit late to chime in, but I agree. I hated what D+ did with her

[@iDEATH]

Token characters can turn out pretty damn good, but this doesn't mean they didn't start life as a token. She-Hulk is a great example of this. She was created because Marvel was worried DC would do it to get themselves a Hulk. Thanks to John Byrne, Shulkie is on of my favourite Marvel heroes. I think the big tell as to whether or not it's a good or bad variation of the phenomenon is how much of the new 'token' version of a character rests on those immutable characteristics such as race or sexual orientation as to how they are differentiated from the original. See the last few years of Marvel comics for endless examples of how to do that bad version.

[@OddSifr]

She-Hulk was a GREAT token because: - Her gender didn't matter (at least in later issues) - She had special powers unique to her (Hulk Judgement! :D) that the original couldn't have (in other words: what wouldn't fit Banner, did fit the token) - Personality! Since she doesn't have to worry about one side taking over the other, she can embrace antiheroism rather than running from it ~ A good token is when the roughest traits are kept from the first version, but the subtle ones are unique. For example, you can define a Hulk as a green super-strong humanoid whose "original form" is human, but if you want to define *The* Hulk or She-Hulk, just how they are green super-strong humanoids already differ: She-Hulk keeps her human personality to the point she can work as a lawyer, but *The* Hulk and Bruce Banner are alter egos that take over one at the time. There are numerous other examples but She-Hulk is according to me the *BEST* token in comic industry. Not the best character overall, but the best token. PS: I hope I wasn't too long, I'm just happy someone had the same thoughts about her. ^^

[@edge3220]

I wasn't subbed back when it happened, but what was your thoughts on Rise of the TMNT turning April O'neil black? There was a large argument on her original race in comic form, but animated was established white and redheaded in the three TV iterations before it. (plus all movies.)

[@jeangentry6656]

She didn't become black, she became Moongirl, lol 😛

[@alexubel]

She was never portrayed as black in the original B&W comics, nor in any medium after. Up until someone decided that a red headed white girl needed to be black. Now the original sketches of her while they were trying to pin down her design was Asian.

[@jackudui7550]

Does spider woman count as a tokenized character? The jessica drew version.

[@daniellesmith7515]

I may not always agree with your opinions, but I do always appreciate that you start out with the definition of your terms. Very academic. I will say that maybe you should've said Supergirl 'was' a tokenized character; characters (especially comic book characters) have a tendency to grow/change from where they originated. Wonder Woman being The prime example of this. They might originate as a tokenized version of another character, (or as an attempt to make Batman look less homosexual) but be developed through the efforts of quality writers into their own thing. Of course the reverse is also possible. Cyborg serving on the Teen Titans was, maybe, created as a token, but then developed into his own thing, and then got 'upgraded' to serve on the Justice League as their token black man.

[@alexubel]

Uhm...exactly how was Wonder Woman a tokenized character?

[@daniellesmith7515]

@@alexubel Are you, at all familiar with Wonder Woman's history? She debuted as little more than BDSM fan fiction, and even once she joined the Justice League she was often 'the chick' of the group.

[@TheGracefulRogue]

@@daniellesmith7515 Ok but that doesn't have anything to do with being tokenized. Wonder Woman isn't a tokenized character.

[@alexubel]

@@daniellesmith7515 That doesn't make her a tokenized character. That makes her an original character written poorly during a time when that sort of behavior was common place. I mean I suppose you could argue that she BECAME tokenized when she received Superman's power set (minus the heat vision of course).

[@daniellesmith7515]

Although my original reference to Wonder Woman was not as her being a tokenized character, and instead as a reference to a character who started out as one thing and was later developed into another; IE: "characters (especially comic book characters) have a tendency to grow/change from where they originated. Wonder Woman being The prime example of this." I do believe that Wonder Woman has been and continues to be a token character on occasion. Off the top of my head I can point out Justice League War as one comic/comic series where Wonder Woman was a token. From her introduction she's basically little more than the 'strong woman' trope, and goes out of her way to remind people she doesn't take sh*t from anyone (and the writers conspire to make sure she's in the right even when doing obviously criminal things like attacking civilians who're protesting her). She's essentially there only to be there and be a 'strong female character' and, a character who is only there to check a minority box is a token character. Now, Justice League War was a poorly written comic just, across the board, so it's not surprisingly it would have a poor portrayal of Wonder Woman, as it does a pretty bad job of portraying all the characters present, but it does serve to show that Wonder Woman, can, has been, and will continue to be tokanized when given over to writers who don't understand the dynamics the character has evolved since 1942

[@mmmaclovin]

That hat is badass

[@EMCQ301]

Thank you! We need more blacks and browns like you speaking out against tokenized characters. We already have so many black and brown characters in media, and blackwashing characters usually makes them look uglier anyway. Lets just keep characters white.

[@breezeistlime96]

In your opinion are Ben Reilly and Kane tokenized versions of Peter Parker? I can understand silk miles or any others. Yet, these two were a major part of Peter's development and also these two characters have had a great stories together and separate to stand out on their own. In my opinion Miguel O hara is more of a legacy character because his story is placed in 2099 a possible Marvel universe future. What do you think about him?

[@Lastjustice]

Ben Reilly and Kane are derivative characters or knock offs of an existing character. Tokens are alternate versions of the character where they changed the background in some way. All tokens are derivative characters but not all derivatives are tokens. Doesn't make them inheritly bad or good, but that's the just the term for what we are discussing here.

[@alexubel]

Ben Riley IS Peter Parker, and from what I know Kane is his son.

[@musicman2569]

If The Robins and other people who have become robin take over the role than does that mean that all the Robin's ( Mostly Jason, Tim, Damon, Carry) have been given a hand-me- down role or is Robin a mantle?

[@breesco]

Nice phrasing -- "a wall of text"!

[@Al77343]

If they make blade white would that be tokenizeing? Is it tokenizeing for a character like Robin, who actively changes who's under the mask, becomes black?

[@Al77343]

@DC MEDIA NEWSWIRE yes to both?

[@aaa1e2r3]

Random question, would you consider the hero Steel from DC Comics a token?

[@alexubel]

Yes. He was made to "replace" Superman. He wasn't his own character.

[@christopherbeebe1064]

Thoughts on Hyperion and Gladiator?

[@KDVoiceofReason]

For the sake of consistency: do you consider Jason/The Chosen One a tokenization of Wonder Woman and White Wolf a tokenization of Black Panther?

[@lamedrawings]

Woah that venom hat is actually pretty dope. Where'd you get it bro? I want that on my head too.

[@spasmhd7572]

I think the best way that you’ve explained the situation/problem of Tokenized characters in comics is that the issue comes when they feel that they need to take an already existing, established, popular character and change they’re race or gender simply to meet some “diversity quota” or whatever. Rather than simply creating a unique and original character that just so happens to be black, female, etc. Because it’s basically like saying, “We don’t think that (insert group) can sustain their own line of comics/stories, so we have to use a character that’s already popular”

[@Czah5]

Gender/Sexuality/Ethnicity are not character traits. There is a world of difference between being a(n) [insert] hero and being a hero that also happens to be [insert]. The former is the biggest issue with most tokenizing. Too often, tokenizers change a superficial feature of a character and expect all of the character development of the original to just carry over. They skip the most important part of character creation, which is the journey the audience takes to become invested in the character while simultaneously nullifying the original that people liked in the first place. Oh, and dude conveniently left out the fact that there were *so* *many* "white boy" Robins because people didn't like them. Hell, Jason Todd was VOTED to be killed off by the readers before the "age of social media".

[@SterlingOladapominiiglo]

So would u say that The Ray (from DC comics who was once a member of the Freedom Fighters) is a tokenized?

[@talonmage40k]

I only had to read the second sentence of his comment to know he didn't get it.

[@glnakeith3199]

Love your approach.

[@johndiaz3941]

Kudos for being in my opinion very civil to someone who was very rude.

[@tobyscustoms4813]

I don’t care if they are tokenized if they are written well bad writing is what I have a problem with

[@life-hardenedschoolstudent2284]

If the character's race or gender is chenged for the sake of their race or gender to be changed, then it's tokenization But if you change the character's identity, THEN actually made character development that really make sense, then it's good Coming from weeb who watches and play Fate/Series. They literally genderbent many historical figures like King Arthur become a 18 years old blonde girl, Mordred become a tomboy, Miyamoto Musashi become a big tiddy anime girl, Paul Bunyan is child-like looking girl that can turn herself become a giant, and many more But what makes Fate/Series apart from these tokenization is that Fate doesn't focus their character for the sake of identity politics, they genderbent the character because they just want to do it, there's no political message behind it, and the character development is actually quite decent, thus make the genderbender issue become irrelevant and make it secondary issues

[@jedvush9139]

What do you think of Samuel L Jackson as Nick fury. I would like a video on that. I mean on one hand your def. is turning a character the opposite race just to create more diversity but I feel like since he is well written, a good character and not put in there cause he’s black he was put in their because he’s goddamn Samuel l Jackson it’s not really tokened. But idk your the expert

[@doggindr1]

His arguement is not directed towards you as an individual. I am willing to bet, in his mind, he is talking/arguing with the group he thinks you represent. You are little more than a mouthpiece to whatever enemy "other" group he has dropped you in. This is why he thinks he makes sense, from his perspective, it is not him arguing with you. It is his group arguing with your group.

[@eggsnspam]

Yea he is a tribalist whereas YoungRippa59 is an individualist. YoungRippa could care less whether a character is black, brown, or purple. He just doesn't like tokenized characters, in some instances unoriginal characters, and in ALL instances a 1-dimensional character.

[@TheVampirePriest]

Lemar, aka black Bucky, was given the riot act about being tokenized waaaaay back in the 1980’s Captain America story arc, The Captain. As a result, he changed his code name & costume to Battle Star. While I traditionally hold tolkenized characters with contempt, he’s the only one I liked; & it was because of his change of identity & background. In all reality, it should’ve been Battle Star to have taken the mantle of Captain America instead of Sam Wilson; as a Captain America reader since the 1970’s, it made more sense for Lemar to take the mantle despite the neigh decade of Marvel grooming/foreshadowing Sam.

[@dragonredk]

I'll never understand those people. What good is there to playing sloppy seconds for a character when you can have your actual own identity? What is good about people remenbering a character as "the asian hulk" "female thor" etc...? Yes making people get onboard with a new character is hard but as far as the circle I follow go Luna Snow seem to be a succes despite not leeching on the back of already established.

[@jamesstewart9056]

Dat cap though!!!

[@dbears1603]

How do you feel about daken, Laura,and James?

[@nidalderoo3448]

When Falcon became Captain America his biggest problem was being Captain America while being black. There were whole issues devoted to how important it is that Captain America is black and relatively often there weren’t even villains in some of his stories just him dealing with being a black Captain America.

[@alexsandoval796]

Admittedly, I haven't watched a lot of his videos but to me it sounds like he is talking about the reader's annoyance of some writer or creator of comic book heroes attempting to counterfeit an existing hero instead of either further defining an existing hero or creating a new one.

[@Thurnmourer]

For a sec I thought you meant that other black comic YT'er with the masked, comicy style image as their front xD

[@lillpoetboy]

The only tokenized characters i love and adore is She Hulk and Silk, there's something about their character personalities that makes me swoon. Plus everytime i see Silk in cosplay, im thinking of Sharon Lee...

[@alexubel]

I really don't know anything about Silk, but I feel that the character of She Hulk was able to rise above that because of good writing. At least back in the day anyway. I don't know about know. I keep track of major story lines these days, but I don't read comics like I used to. I don't really agree with him totally on his view of tokenism however, because some of them were created before this became a problem. He does however make some great points on the process of the character's origin.

[@jeangentry6656]

@@alexubel same. And She Hulk has regressed sadly. She became a brainless brute (think the Savage She Hulk days) thanks to Mariko Tamaki's Hulk run a few yrs back (to summarize - Bruce was dead after the events of Civil War 2, and Marvel replaced him with She Hulk) The Hulk comic was actually starring She Hulk. Worse, they regressed her character to make her Bruce Banner in a skirtsuit.

[@lillpoetboy]

Honestly haven't read a She Hulk comic in over a decade, nostalgia more then anything. Last comic i read with She Hulk she just finished screwing Juggernuant. How long ago was that?! As for Silk, the idea of a late 20s asian spider-gal with a maturity level of a 16 year old, just seems kinda interesting to me.

[@jeangentry6656]

@BenUptSns71 Bruh sadly, yes.

[@alexubel]

@BenUptSns71 Bruh That shows me you don't know anything about either character.

[@thomasirwin9587]

Does the guy not know about the green lanterns

[@kevinbower7142]

Love the new content

[@ayyyblinkin343]

It would be a 5d chess move if the writers didn't pass bucky the captain america title so later they could make him the new black panther. I would stand up and applaud in the theatre if they did that.

[@TheOnlyGuermo]

I hate when that they had to double up on Miles, they sit there, "OK, we will make Spider-man black." "Perfect!" "Now, we need a Mexican character" "Woooooaaaah! Slow down there, we gave them one lets not go crazy here." "Make him black aaaaaand hispanic, 2 birds with one stone." "Boom, brilliant." Why didn't they make him trans, gay, muslim, and somehow a lesbian too. But somehow Miguel O'Hara keeps losing more Hispanic, soon its gonna be like that Chappel show skit about Tiger Woods losing his blackness until he becomes the grand wizard of the KKK.

[@zoompt-lm5xw]

Keep preaching They're not liking so you must be doing something right

[@ohla300]

Ppl always got to project their own bias and offensive thoughts on July. Smh you are pretty clear in your explanations in videos. Yes it is some shit 😊

[@zabicvamere]

If you change a characters Sex Race Sexuality Faith Personality To meet an agenda=token.

[@LTG22]

sounds like a lot of random all around! love the hat tho!

[@katyushamarikov8819]

Is Power Girl a token? Academics please respond.

[@simplythebest2k]

I think he is trying to imply that rippa wouldn't call a white Blade a token by using word salad entrapment?

[@RedFive21]

Sweet hat man!

[@lillpoetboy]

Stay awesome

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

"She-thor" *giggity* hell ya my man! late night was awesome! *fistbump*

[@nidalderoo3448]

A thing that bothered me was that it was almost all at the same time. Asian Hulk, female Thor, Black Captain America, Muslim Ms Marvel

[@jameswatkins5483]

I know people had issues with Sam wilson as captain America but from a historical standpoint in the comics it made sense. Cap n falcon had adventures together for years and Cap trusted him. Also I feel.Captain America is as much an ideal as it being Steve Rodgers

[@vermis8344]

Given that the comic involved a 'pan-asian school', the _entire continent_ was tokenised. Aaaall those individual (and often clashing) countries and cultures reduced to one small idea of 'exotic other', to be painted onto a handful of characters, for the benefit of Marvel Comics' PR, and their supposed audience.

[@nooctip]

I don't have that many issues from that period. But as far as I know Beta Ray Bill was in Thor, he was never called Thor.

[@SenHai]

I wanna see this Bear guy attempt to argue this.

[@bluespiral4678]

I've been debating that "Bear Manley" dude for a while now on the video about the Asian characters. It's cool to see I'm not the only one 😆

[@gerbill13]

i dont mind sam being cap. but the writers made him black cap.

[@gurneyhalleck1127]

If believe your character is interesting because of a trait; its tokenized. If you are writing a character giving it a trait has an interesting aspect or twist, then you may be doing ok.