Ranking Every FFXIV Job in Savage Raid - Light-Heavyweight Edition

[@RinBanana]

Check out Guild Wars 2 and experience Janthir Wilds today: wehy.pe/y/4/Rinon #ad

[@gothicshark]

ah a FFXIV video... sponsored by GW2.... （;＾∀;＾）

[@blueaurus5302]

Holy cow they're actually marketing?

[@xkmto]

@@blueaurus5302 I think I saw a handful of GW2 ads at most from 2012-2018, and that was when I was active

[@sanguin3]

Funnily, I'm taking a long break from GW2 to check out FF14 lol. Just finished ARR tonight (has its up and down but overall enjoyable) and I'm excited to see what's next. I also bought the complete edition after completing the base game, just because female Viera is too hot 🥵.

[@devinayaz9210]

@@gothicshark RIGHT!? IT WAS FUNNY XD

[@MahouSoju]

"The jobs at the bottom don't necessarily suck, they just aren't optimal" thumbnail image "These suck" with an arrow to the bottom row. I mean, it worked for baiting my engagement, but it's not very honest.

[@talancorwell]

But it's funny so it gets a pass

[@furaoalbino9303]

Yeah its annoying but everything is exagerated to the extreme nowdays so ehh...

[@ryoujiarisato7308]

I mean, anyone that understand XIV at a semi basic level knows that no jobs will *suck* in a savage tier lol

[@captainziggy82]

Random ff player learns how KZbin thumbnails work

[@MahouSoju]

When a high-tier, respected raider like Rinon trashes jobs in a thumbnail for clickbait, it will inevitably lead to raid leaders and PUGs discriminating against those jobs over it. If he wants to clickbait a video, maybe pick something that won't directly affect other players, or better yet, just be better and not resort to Mr. Beast style tactics to gain a following. But whatever I suppose, get your bag queen I guess.

[@EspyMelly]

I do think the phys range dilemma is the biggest problem with job design in FFXIV atm. The fact an entire role is only seriously considered due to an arbitrary stat buff for everyone else is not good at all. The funniest part is that, back when Bard was the only one, the role was better simply for sharing the Healer LB3 that could let it save runs.

[@SubduedRadical]

Yeah, they REALLY need to decide of Phys Ranged is going to be support - in which case they all get lower damage but also all get a lot of support stuff, more than they have now, even - or if it's just another DPS subrole, in which case they need to give MCH more damage to be a "selfish" DPS. They just need to make a decision one way or another.

[@bigtimetimmyjim6486]

I was actually trumpeting how essential a phys ranged is to a comp in another comment, but I will be blunt: there IS a dilemma. Nobody wants to play a job that feels underpowered, even if it is essential, and it is a reason why phys ranged is in pretty short supply as a role in PFs when compared to other DPS.

[@mosley3485]

@@SubduedRadical The issue is that this would also require a shift in content design because rn we really don't need any additional support utility, besides raid buffs.

[@MasterOfNintendo99]

Only in savage really. Most ultimates need a phys range to do baits which they do best because of their movement. I agree though, savage with it's non existent dps responsibility makes it seem like p range are just another body sometimes

[@EspyMelly]

@@MasterOfNintendo99 A SMN or RDM can usually do those responsibilities nowadays without too much issue, especially SMN.

[@Sgticecube]

Summoner and machinist is the only jobs I like playing and I'm sticking with them.

[@ttabood7462]

I like all the jobs really but I get you. I'm a DNC main and feel a little slighted. lol

[@RingoFreakingStarr]

@@ttabood7462 There really isn't a scenario where excluding mch/smn will ever really make sense unless we get a super over-tuned fight like we did ONCE in EW and even then that was only for like, one and a half weeks.

[@Noel_Tamura]

You're spotting the most crucial part of 14 or any game In general: just play what you think is fun, everything else doesn't matter (give ranged some love tho, squenix, thanks

[@RedLightz_TV]

Hmmm this comment thread is too positive Time to play the devils advocate “Well let me know what your name in game is so I can block you so you don’t tank my progress!” (I’m being sarcastic)

[@itsmii7785]

@@RingoFreakingStarrWell, two months later, we now have the new Ultimate that fits the bill here. MCH’s numbers in that fight is so pitiful and you have to have a PCT to even try to clear, it’s nuts.

[@Sc0tt8588]

The moment on Ninja when you said "The start of Shadowbringers" was like Wartime flashbacks.

[@SubduedRadical]

Ever see that "Obi-Wan Kenoby has PTSD" video on KZbin? Where they play the A New Hope scene where he seems to be thinking about the past and then have sound clips from the prequels and Clone Wars cartoons playing while he's thinking before he finishes his lines? It do be like that sometimes.

[@zy-x]

I heard that if you say tier list 3 times into the mirror at night, Madi Lynn from Lich will appear.

[@madily]

DID SOMEONE SAY TIER LIST?

[@zy-x]

@@madily 😨

[@Fan-wj9mx]

@@madily 🤨

[@iaxacs3801]

As a MCH at this point this is just par for the course. We got a wrench though so we can help mitigate more raidwides and diminish punishing mistakes :)

[@ArchieGamez]

​@alchemi8085 the sound of the Wrench is hilarious too 😂

[@leonardosoaresalves9105]

gz for do what other jobs do better

[@jamesharbor4893]

Summoner going in grey then immediately being ahead of Machinist speaks to me so much

[@cdsbradley]

My "this is for fun" t-shirt is bringing up a lot of questions already answered by my shirt

[@spoinkable2217]

How I feel as a Black Mage main right now. It's like I need to defend my decision to the highest courts in the land. I just like how it plays!

[@SoushinSen]

A GW2 sponsor in a FF14 video is wild.

[@RedLightz_TV]

Gotta make money in every way you can lol

[@Oumeic]

The only two games I really play anymore.

[@putridplatypus8736]

Purple Peter sounds like something you may want to go to the doctor about.

[@MarcWFaceman]

it's insane to me that of all classes DRG didn't get a better ranged option when VPR did. The class has the longest weapon (traditionally in RPGs lances have "reach"), it literally has a lance throw move, and it is traditionally known as a class that can bounce in and out of range with ease. How none of this translated in a 2 or 3 GCD disenage tool I'll never know. I feel like Yoshi just kind of forgot DRGs identity both as a job and for what it is within the FF universe. It's pretty sad to see.

[@azrielkiba3349]

Brother Mnk is still in 0 ranged option hell outside of 2 min windows

[@KhajiitMoon]

I was so. So. Sooooooo heated they took spineshatter dive. I do, generally, appreciate the other quality of life adjustments. But removing a jump that acted as a gap closer on the job THAT REVOLVES AROUND JUMPING is a war crime. Also. When tf do we get Akh Morn? So salty SMN has it but we, the ones with the damn dragon spirit, don't 😒

[@sinnthetic616]

I’m surprised you didn’t put Paladin into slave meta tier! It just feels so incredibly strong this tier, between all its dmg, utility and ranged capability

[@starofaetherius]

Might just feel that way because we are so used to being overshadowed by other tanks in every area lol feels good to be on top for once

[@powergi3996]

I'm only playing MCH for the 3rd expansion. I have accepted that Yoshi-P hates me.

[@Reaper1722]

23:09 That's exactly the problem. As a Black Mage main, one pretty much need to be in top form to do good damage. Meanwhile, i can play Picto less optimally and yet still do damage that can compete, if not outright surpass the supposed selfish dps of the casters. It's just baffling. All these years i've thought that jobs that provide some form of buffs, whether defensive or offensive, have lowered or slightly lowered damage to compensate and prevent their pick over a selfish dps job in parties. And then Picto came along and it made me confused on where their job balance direction are going. And the fact that they've officially stated that they are not planning to do anything about it simply because people found it "fun", is concerning. Like, where was that reasoning when they gutted jobs like SMN. There were people that found old SMN fun, but they got ignored. Granted, it's true that current SMN is closer to its job identity, but i do wonder if gutting it was the right call. And don't get me wrong, i'm not against fun since it's a videogame after all. It's just concerning if one takes into consideration the state of the other jobs pre 7.05 in relation to PCT. Why claim fun to be the reason when they made almost all the other jobs underwhelming in comparison to PCT. Like, for example they nerfed Black Mage aoe damage. Like, why? Massive aoe damage was one of their thing. Was one of the aspects of Black Mage that i (And i assume others) found fun in casual content, why nerf that? They don't seem to balance around normal content, so it was weird to nerf something that only really sees use in normal content. It's so bad that transposing in between fire and ice is a better option than using high fire or high blizzard.

[@asatowolfe]

I feel your pain. I've mained/secondaried BLM most tiers, and knowing PCT is so far ahead is extremely depressing. Unlike BLM- who traditionally gives up party utility for damage, PCT has comparable damage and some of the best party utility (more options than most other DPS jobs). What annoys me is that I can have what I considered to be a good, clean run of savage or EX trials with BLM; and then go in with PCT without much experience and end up clearing the content almost 45 seconds quicker. It's depressing how good PCT is currently.

[@vmmramos]

Man, summoner was so fun back in stormblood, but unfortunately, "look how they massacred my boy"

[@raphwalker9123]

I duno i remembered its rotation being a mess and lots of pretty boring dots.Summoner from 90+ is pretty fun now.

[@Sammael757]

I really enjoy SMN myself, BUT I'm also not pushing savage content either. I do feel like I have a much easier time focusing on mechs than when I'm on RPR or VIP, but the damaged difference is noticeable even in normal content. I can only imagine that it's worse in Savage.

[@AlphaXXI]

@@ashleybricco4107 Same here. The job in Endwalker was simple and fun, but getting just a little more complexity at lvl 100 (like, at least some requirement to summoning Solar-Bahamut) would have been nice.

[@Tiglath-Pileser3]

Throwing on some numbers for context: The average clear this tier has 2 tanks, 1.999 healers, 1.888 melee, 1.124 casters, and 0.988 ranged phys. So you are still going to see a ranged phys in nearly every party, while around 1 in 10 will drop a melee for a second caster. Not sure what is going on with that 1 in 2,000 single healer clear, though. In ~130,000 clears, ~73,000 had a picto. ~73,800 had one of the other three casters. Picto represents essentially half of the caster role right now. Viper, meanwhile, fills around a third of all melee slots, and is the single most played class this tier. As an MCH main, I'd really love to argue against its grey spot on the list. But the ceiling is just... so low. It does have the benefit of not depending on anyone. I never have to worry about my dance partner dying, or a big DPS dying right before my buff window. This has let me be the big fish in many small ponds, grabbing the top damage spot in a low damage party. But an MCH purple parse can be green or even grey for most other classes. I still love it, and am reliably clearing the tier, but it could use a nice 3% damage boost. That would put it ahead of the other two ranged phys, until you start getting to the 75%+ mark.

[@CallN0w]

1.999 healers??

[@xuto2693]

MCH and DRK need to go and get a beer together

[@shrapnelite]

what's probably happening is groups doing a single healer strat for an extra dps. we did that on a few fights in the previous tier just took a single SCH. doing that however takes a lot of planning for raid mits and good play.

[@Fimbulvetr]

MCH should really be buffed so it's dealing the damage of a weaker melee dps because otherwise it offers nothing.

[@Mimz670]

@@CallN0w It's likely the healer-less runs that hardcore optimization groups are doing

[@OliveDiamonds]

I cleared my first extreme with MCH and I will continue to raid with it. I'm working on leveling PICTO but MCH is gonna always be my comfort job for when im first learning mechanics

[@HaussMorph]

Sounds like you had a lot of fun making this, nicely done

[@Greco4915]

Hehehe.... Putting Dragoon in the direct middle of the chart, I guess it's quite the MIDhogg of the melee DPS 😂😂😂

[@bigtimetimmyjim6486]

Put it anywhere other than direct middle and it risks elusive jumping off of the edge. =)

[@HeavenlyBrush]

Yeah the tier was very clearly designed around viper disengage tools, it's kinda funny but also a little annoying at the same time.

[@kirigherkins]

yeah it's kind of way too reliable, any other melee makes me think "why am I even bothering playing this when I could just play VPR and deal more damage for way less effort"

[@penrilfake]

​@@kirigherkins I had the exact same thought and swapped off SAM to VPR finally in m3s, where you can't even use Enpi Yatenpi reliably for the bigger disconnects (towers). VPR has it so absurdly easy that it seriously needs some potency nerfs if encounter design will continue to be this downtime-heavy.

[@senbujohns4489]

Paladin gang rise up !!!

[@SigmaTheWhiteFlame]

I judge my tiers on glam. So Black Mage / Warrior / Machinist / and any Striking job are top tier this raid wing.

[@drewmalekith4614]

I feel like DNC thrives most over BRD when there is a clear #1 damage job, but since the balance between melee and picto is all pretty close BRD gets the best spot because it buffs all of them instead of just the top like DNC would. And when base level the others are all right behind each other that partner buff isn’t as huge

[@RingoFreakingStarr]

14:57 I'd argue that MCH getting a whole second party mit (Dismantle) is the best non damage utility that any Physical Ranged offers. It was extremely noticeable progging and clearing TOP when you didn't have a MCH to have that extra party mit. Same thing with RDM and their big extra party mit.

[@idkidc12333]

I've been playing RDM this tier because it is my main, but PLD was my first love in a tank and it has been good to see it is eating good. My static is still going through the tier, but if there's time, I'd absolutely love to play PLD.

[@rexcyjones9416]

SMN not having a new set of summons was the biggest disappointment among the classes. Everyone expected it to be the case but having only one new summon is such a hard cope to swallow. Its not like we're doing new Class job quests so it doesnt really matter if where we got Shiva, Ramuh and Leviathan, if anything they can also add Odin or Ixion as an OGCD. But nah, they clearly got tired halfway after churning out Viper and Picto.

[@VokunG20]

funnily enough, if you actually compared viper to picto, viper has a more basic kit which makes me feel like they just got tired from making viper half way through as well. Why they thought going 6gcd/4ogcd 2 times in a row was engaging gameplay is beyond me.

[@rexcyjones9416]

@VokunG20 that sounds like how DRK is right now lol. Actually DRK has lesser gcd during burst windows 🤣

[@1BadAssArchAngelvs14]

@@rexcyjones9416 FF14 combat job class design is all about movement. The old-school non-movement combat of old-school MMOs allowed jobs to be customized and versatile since combat was stationary, in other words, old-school MMOs were build-heavy. If you want "Summoner Job" to have all summons like in FF11 then FF14 would need a whole overhaul again back to old-school stationary combat ,but casual gamers would hate it.

[@rexcyjones9416]

@@1BadAssArchAngelvs14 but SMN is already a very mobile caster. Adding the rest of the ARR Primals won't change much with its design other than potential unique effects from certain Primal, also homogenizing it with 2min doesn't really matter as well since most of its burst rotation only covers Bahamut's and 1 or 2 summons.

[@1BadAssArchAngelvs14]

@@rexcyjones9416 They could give Summoner a third phase after the "Solar Bahamut" phase bum rush summoning the rest of the Primals in button sequence then the finisher is Odin.

[@truesoprano2152]

I cleared the whole tier with MCH, honestly it's the most fun job and having an extra mit is underrated, especially since I've had to deal with a lot of mediocre healers in pf. I do really think phys ranged deserves a buff but it's really not as bad as some people say it is. Just play the jobs that you think are the most fun, not the jobs the metagame tells you to play.

[@Astralmess]

wdym machinist lacks identity? it has a strong identity of being a flashy selfish fast-paced dps. it needs its numbers pumped up, that's all. but that doesn't mean there's lack of identity.

[@Astralmess]

no way you put smn ahead of machinist. genuinely shit take.

[@pyrosianheir]

Easiest way to help Pranged - nerf the Ranged Tax. -_- Especially for MCH there's no good reason for it to be AS high as it is. I can cope with a little bit of a tax - full uptime on a good player means yeah, sure, they shouldn't be entirely without that. But also, if a top tier MCH is does worse DPS than a mid-tier SAM or VPR, then there's something VERY wrong.

[@Syokonono]

Phys ranged doesnt have to worry about half of the things that a melee does....saying it should be doing above mid tier melee when they are the easiest class to play, dont have to worry about positionals, dont have to worry about casting, dont have to worry about unsafe positioning close to the boss for uptime, dont have to worry about doing wild strats to keep uptime, and dont have to worry about difficult rotations is mind boggling. No. Phys ranged is where it belongs.

[@pyrosianheir]

@SNOZ562 I literally said they shouldn't be entirely without it. I'm just asking for an 8 or 9% tax instead of 10% (or whatever the equivalent with the actual numbers would be). I'm not looking for dead parity with melee, just that the highest parses be able to measure up with the middle of the melee pack for the lone PRanged that has nothing to contribute to rDPS.

[@Syokonono]

@@pyrosianheir But it already does. check fflogs stats on m4s. black mage median dps is 25k while mch max dps is 25k. It's literally already the thing you are asking for. You expecting anything higher without making the class much more difficult is having your cake and eating it too. Phys ranged is designed to be easy and therefore low damage. If you want bigger numbers, dont play phys range and be prepared to have a much more difficult class to play around. Its as simple as that.

[@dadkwashere]

Machinist needs so much love. Pretty much unplayable competively on console, weak for a selfish dps, and its contemporaries just do a better job by virtue of contributing to the team via buffs. Its really stupid people's advice to do well with mch boils down to "get noclippy or alexander"

[@AzuraFocushearth]

I just want to remind people looking at this tier list that it's based on high level of play. If you're new to healing or not confident, whm will automatically be S tier healer because it's so easy to play and you get a great healing tool every 20 seconds (rapture)

[@grimacetexas9719]

Also in dungeons warriors will be the single easiest tank to play. While scholar can be a hassle to play in dungeons

[@byers1060]

ironically, people with 'high levels of play' don't care about tier lists. if you can clear it's all the same - anything these days for sponsor dollars, i guess

[@grimacetexas9719]

@@byers1060 in high level it just does not matter because people play around the strengh and weakness of their classes

[@janekgaganek3871]

I believe some of the jobs that might be worse in reclears or serious attempts at kills, but they shine in learning scenarios. Here the goat is of course rdm with quick resses. From my experience mch is actually great in this scenario, its incredibly simple to do solid damage without much thinking which allows you to focus on mechanics more. Im my m3 prog, even tho im gearing reaper and had a few items on it already, i was doing about 2k dps less than when i finally killed on mch in pf. After that when i learned the fight fully and found ways to gain more uptime of course im doing much more than im able on mch. The minimal effort and focus required to be good is imo a solid strength that should not be overlooked

[@kirigherkins]

Yep, that's another reason why VPR is one of the best jobs in the game, it's so easy to play it lets you focus completely on learning mechanics, and Uncoiled lets it disconnect from the boss at will if it needs to adjust during spreads if the rest of the party is out of position. Wish I saw more RDM though, I always love having an RDM in the party to stop the raid from wiping if both healers screw up a mechanic. Hm? SMN can res too? SMN may as well not exist, I barely see any :/

[@janekgaganek3871]

@@kirigherkins yeah i imagine vipers have much nicer time than i on reaper, especially on like m3. Having harpe as a cast is really annoying (for example on the knockback towers), and a single harvest moon for the fight also aint it. Sure sometimes u can greed like lets say the lariats, but they dont always align with your gcds to facilitate that. Also now that im talking about harvest moon, it really is a weird one eh? With current fight design u pretty much do it only once per fight as there isnt much downtime where u dont have a valid target. The ideal thing would be for some of the skills to give you that charge back. Maybe tie it to perfectio?

[@Lyu-Phy]

Difficulty & comfort of the jobs in general is a pretty important point, quite overlooked as well imho. It can legit hard carry you through otherwise more difficult mechanics on other jobs, more thinking etc. Also good for new shy players. You can learn faster. But it also has downsides and makes you comfy with stress free situations. I noticed that when I switched jobs, I improved a lot by playing more engaging jobs on the other hand as well. At the end of the day, both choices are solid.

[@TheArnoldification]

I didnt realize it immediately but grand impact was a huge buff to rdm. It gives you grand impact as well as your free instant, rather than replacing it, making acceleration almost as good as triplecast for movement. It really helps as rdm could have trouble with extended movement if they dont have melee combo available. Grand impact also lasts for 30s so you can use acceleration to prevent overcapping and then hold onto it for a while, like if you need to prep a filler instant to make sure you dont clip your ogcd's. Pretty happy with rdm now overall even though im still a blm main, rdm is pretty easy but not braindead and does reasonably good dps in DT

[@anierikidemona]

Cries in reassemble, wipes tears in the memory of plunge.

[@zirilan3398]

Remember us, remember that we once plunged

[@zirilan3398]

Remember that SMN also lost it's "Ding" soundeffect on fester, the game doesn't feel right anymore

[@anierikidemona]

@@zirilan3398 hadn't noticed this till now. It is different now that I have.

[@zirilan3398]

@@anierikidemona It sucks a lot doesn't it? There is a solution thou: Play Bozja or Eureka. For whatever reason the jobs feel better in the 70/80 range than they do on 90/100 imo

[@anierikidemona]

@zirilan3398 depends on the job but I totally understand

[@Anna.K..]

Astro has 3 raid Midigations and 5 solo Midigations (1 x solo shield card, 1 x solo mid card, solo shield x 2, 1 solo mid.). Make it into 8 mids. WHM has 2 raid mids and 3 solo mids. (2x shield and 1 solo mid). Make it into 5 mids.

[@Th3RazieI]

To be honest and fair: Summoner is by far the easiest and laziest caster so it should be the lowest dps, given it also needs the lowest amount of effort. Edit: What you forget to mention about Dark Knight, is that we lost 1200MP every 60 seconds, due to Blood Weapon now only having 3 stacks instead of 5. Which does sum up and also equals to quite a few less TBNs, which further solidifies how bad and borderline unplayable it is currently defensively. Now, offensively... You lost your damage on your gap closer, that's fine. But your Shadow can still use it. TWICE. Which means, if you're unlucky, your Shadow will miss it's cast of Disesteem (I forget if that's the actual name, but the Lvl 100 spell), meaning you lose out on 600 potency potentially in burst. Oh, and why is our Lvl 100 spell the same potency (800) as the last hit of our Delirium Combo? When GNB got like ANOTHER 2.5k or so potency combo?

[@Sunari]

Not surprised at the phy sranged spots honestly, we're there for mit, party buffs if not a machinist, and party stats. Did make my group miss my mitigation though so that felt nice XD

[@Ellenoah3]

banger vid my liege. I really enjoyed hearing your opinions on how each role is served by unique parts of each job and what is done well/not well. I find the current meta really interesting even though I'm not very good with numbers/statistics, it's always interesting to see how each role plays out in the meta of each tier! ps sorry for being toxic in ur chat and calling u damage down daniel x

[@cordialChaos591]

Came here to hear my main talked up, was not disappointed with Ast being first and foremost~

[@Necrofitz]

I picked up MCH a couple months before DT launched. It was bonkers good in EW. Could consistently out damage nearly everyone. Man has it fallen off in DT though. Even in normal content where optimal really doesn't matter, you still can't help but notice which classes lead to seeing mechanics most other class combinations can skip via sheer damage output.

[@idkwhatishouldwritehere.]

luckily as MCH you have no problem dealing with extra mechanics \o/

[@Bloomin]

Same here, it felt so good during the final months of EW but now it just feels like you're holding everyone back by going as MCH. It's even worse in dungeons with some of the worst aoes in the game

[@Necrofitz]

@@Bloomin Yeah I've definitely noticed that my preference for MCH has generally gotten me used to dealing with mechanics some people have never had to see. Between SMN and MCH though, I don't know who got it worse. Both were fighting for top of the aggro list in EW and now they're fighting tooth and nail just to be middle of the pack at the best of times.

[@NajxxTrebla]

cause you picked it up AFTER the MCH buff found in every expansion during the halfway point MCH was equally if not even more shit at the start of EW just wait till DT hits 7.3 and all of a sudden MCH get a buff that makes them OP again

[@kei7834]

MCH will arise again ... Someday 😢

[@KakiharaNao]

Phys Ranged main since I started in HW.. yeah I love bard, its fun, but current bard is so busy and feel I'm not the best at optimizing it, what feels the worst is that I can out rdps my bard playing reaper sub optimally. It really feels like phys range is being punished even now, 7 years later for 2 phys range drg nin parties being meta in hw ;p

[@peppermint7152]

I've found SCH to be super strong on fusefield tbh, though it requires some precise planning. You can setup a deploy before going into it that will catch the first explosion, and have recitation come up again before the final hits. Throw in seraphism (just for the regen), fey illumination, sacred soil, seraph, expedience, whispering dawn, and a fey blessing, and you won't be suffering much. Recitation and Sacred Soil will be up again for the Bombarian Special after, which is enough to keep the party up through the initial hits. Your Seraph will come up again on the tail end to help top further and mitigate the Bombariboom. That's the thing, though, as you alluded to: a lot of this requires planning down to within a few seconds. Drift even a little bit and the entire plan collapses.

[@jonathangille8643]

Sch is really fun this expansion, but yeah tight mp issues and knowing fights in advance to help with mitigation is when Sch shines.

[@Duskinator]

Been gunning through this tier as WHM, the green ranking stings though I understand to an extent why it is the way it is. You have to plan lilies for movement a lot, and especially in M3 and M4 I've definitely run into issues where I need to have lilies expended ready for my 2 minutes, and that leaves me lacking lilies for the healing directly after. Either way, I love this class, and as much as playing Astro would probably benefit my team more, I find juggling Astro's strange list of buttons to be weird and unintuitive to my brain...better to do clean runs on WHM than to curse my party with confused Astro play, I suppose.

[@kwamedwards]

I'm still sticking with BLM. It's fun to play and does good damage even if not the best at this moment. I'd rather spend time practicing and enjoying BLM than switch to a flavor of the month pick which is going to get nerfed or outclassed later.

[@kirigherkins]

BLM truly is so satisfying to play, you feel like an actual genius

[@Gharon]

Viper might be the strongest melee with the best options to keep uptime but i really don't vibe with its gameplay. I'm glad i got to play Reaper this raid-tier, it's way more fun to me.

[@filtermin5308]

How do you manage to not mess up your double enshroud 2 min window? I will admit I’m not the best at greeding uptime in every mech + you gotta disengage from bosses sometimes this tier, so that’s definitely a reason but I would love to hear another’s rpr’s input, I have just been having a hard time with perfectio, my buff would fall before I could cast it later in the fights

[@Gharon]

@@filtermin5308 What exactly causes the mess up? That you have to disengage right in the middle of a double enshroud or that you start Arcane Circle too early and it drops?

[@filtermin5308]

@@Gharon sometimes arcane circle would be up but I will be like 40 on the shroud gauge, so I’m a little late, and if I don’t click it asap, the buff won’t align with the rest of the group, or in other cases I will have to disengage a little for whatever mechanic during enshroud and the buff would drop before perfectio. This mostly happens with me in m3s, and even m2s

[@Gharon]

@@filtermin5308 Yeah that sounds familiar. Especially in M3s when he decides to be annoying with his Lariats and jumps. I haven't done the math so i might shoot myself in the foot doing that but i tend to just use my Arcane Circle one or 2 GCDs later if it means i can get all of my own attacks under my buff, even if it means drifting out of other group buffs a bit in later parts of the fight. If mechanic RNG screws us there's times when we just "have" to disengage at the most inopportune times. Harpe and that single Harvest Moon per fight only go so far. If a fight is predictable enough and i know i'll have to disengage soon i try to time my enshroud window in a way that i'm right about to cast Communio when i have to back away.

[@filtermin5308]

@@Gharon I was doing that initially, using my arcane circle one or 2 GCDs late, and one AST started grilling me about how my buff isn’t aligning 100% with everyone else and it just made me feel bad, idk I feel like everyone shits on melees (whether we greed or play it safe) and it feels like fights like m3s were designed with viper in mind where you basically have no downtime, wheres for rpr we gotta cast harpe for example, and like I said I’m not the best at greeding uptime so naturally throughout the fight I drift a little :(

[@zelos1826]

Never been more happy to be an Astro main ⭐️ ✨🌟💫☀️🌙

[@grainville27]

As a longtime MNK main, I am so so so happy.

[@soldierorsomething]

DT made Six-sided star finally useful, so its awesome now

[@ImXouu]

I'm beginning with monk do you have any tips for me?

[@soldierorsomething]

@@ImXouu monk is pretty simple now, just learn the correct forms, to do flint strike and elixir field do that you can use tornado kick/phantom rush and the rest will come naturally (Also lean flank = side, rear = enemys back) on some abilities

[@ImXouu]

@@soldierorsomething tyvm

[@xuto2693]

Event theme #4 and rinon yapping at length is the kind of thing I pull up youtube for.

[@sinistersaintsgaming738]

PCT needs it's own tier. That shit is so broken it's insane our PCT pulls aggro off our tank on pull half the time bursting for 60k+ and being 20-30% dps ahead of other jobs is ridiculous.

[@Necrofitz]

PCT is such a confusing job. Its potencies are clearly too high by several measures, and the dev team not biting the bullet and nerfing it and instead trying to make other stuff stronger has only made the Picto gap between all the other classes even worse when you realize all the potency buffs they dropped in 7.05 and...Picto is still insane. The disparity in damage and utility between the ranged classes in general has really hit a peak in DT.

[@riddert4966]

Time for the tank to start with a ranged attack

[@dragonhearthx8369]

Honestly, i say they need a 200 point damage decrease on thier 1k spells. Picto can push out those spells way to fast.

[@matsu1161]

​@dragonhearthx8369 summoner was notoriously broken on lvl70 ultimates to the point that they are ahead of every dps classes by a solid 10-15% dps. Pct at lvl70 is somehow on par with the monster that is summoner, so right now you're actually skipping certain enrage mechanics in lvl70 ultimate which is insane

[@Lyu-Phy]

@@matsu1161 SMN is still broken at 70. But I noticed RDM is even stronger in 70 ultimates, atleast saw one in UWU pulling ahead of me. I was like what the hell. Could be because of no food or something but pretty sure I had the buff. Picto is gigabroken overall, TOP says it all and it's super dominant in pretty much every fight. I say go for it, make every job strong in comparison with further buffs. When it comes to balance especially older content/ultimate wise? Yeah that is where things could get tricky.

[@karasutsuki1733]

6:27 Peak Lebron James xD

[@StormEyePS]

I really don't understand why TBN has to have penalty associated with it when its no longer the strongest short CD defensive (heck, its considered "spammable" CD for other tanks, but can't even do that for DRK), when other tanks all got superior versions, just because it has shorter CD. Not like its reliable enough to pop, and it would also be a problem if it was reliable to pop (that would indicate it doesn't mit enough damage). When tank gets geared enough, the auto attacks of bosses don't even get to break it, meaning it is reserved for tank busters, but then whats the point of shorter CD? At this point, I would rather have longer CD, on par with other tanks, and buff the shield amount and giving the free Edge stack upon expiry.

[@jpzsax]

If you do savage on pf be a yolo mch is better than see your dp die all the time or all party members misaligned their buffs windows... Yolo jobs best for pf

[@yrtert7138]

You know you have to align your own burst with said misaligned buffs so yolo classes rely the most on party members :p

[@Decus86]

​@@yrtert7138Go to ff logs and check how much high parsing bard gave dps to the party and compare how much similar mch took from the party. Bard's number is higher. It is straight up more reliant on group doing well. So for a static bard or dnc if one dps is leaps and bounds above others. Mch if you pf

[@deathsythe238]

As a DRK main, I'd put it in green, Oblations don't feel like they do anything most of the time, this whole tier has said screw Dark Mind (just invuln) and half the fights barely let you use Missionary effectively.

[@AlphaXXI]

At least now people aren't gonna complain about Summoner being broken compared to how easy it is anymore.

[@mbentley6]

I wish they would modify shadow and whorl of death so it gives you a buff rather than debuffing the enemy. I also wish they made soul slice and soul scythe ogcd actions. Other than that I like the job.

[@Bunstonious]

The job I was most excited for was Viper and I adored it at launch, but the changes in 7.01 made me sad and unable to play it. I'm not sure if there has been changes since or if they break just made the heart grow fonder but I do vibe with Viper again (even without its dot :( ). Dragoon just isn't as fun as it was, and I still detest Sawblade on Machinist. I think for me, as a casual af player, i'm enjoying Viper and my wife enjoys Reaper. Solid picks for both.

[@TheFlu-54]

As someone who has been progging on DRG, I think this is about how I am feeling. Movementwise I do think there are fun opportunities to Elusive out, Winged Glide back in, but I am definitely feeling weaker with the spear throwing I have to account for. My one other issue is that Starcross has a terrible ranged, why is it 3y, no other oGCD is that small a range on DRG and it makes planning around it awkward. Its especially aggravating after the Viper 7.01 buffs.

[@TheMountainLynx]

My #1 criticism of Summoner: Bahamut's/Titan's ass blocking visibility of mechanics :P As someone who plays a lot of DRK, I'm really not seeing why people are saying it's bad for dungeons. Sure we don't have the self-healing to solo them, but that's why we bring a healer. After that, we have Flood and Shadowbringer to pick up multiple mobs at once at range (something no other tank can do until they're into their burst combo), and Salted Earth to keep them from getting peeled. Some of the best tools available for the tank's most important job: keeping everyone else from getting hit. I also find it so much more fun that I just plain play it better than the other three, but that point is entirely subjective.

[@Necrofitz]

DRK is considered bad in dungeons by many because the healer generally has to work quite a bit harder to keep the DRK alive, which also means they're contributing less to DPS during trash pulls which slows the entire dungeon down. As someone that has done a lot of healing at every level, DRKs are consistently the ones who just kind of melt with pre-Clemency PLD getting a shout-out as well in that regard. But when I'm comparing DRK's survivability in dungeons at every level to PLD in practically just ARR content, that's a problem. There's a reason people desperately want DRK to get some kind of self healing set up at least on par with GNB. As a frequent healer, I don't need or want every tank to be WAR, but man not having to babysit a tank from start to finish every pull shouldn't be a luxury.

[@janekgaganek3871]

I also enjoy the protective playstyle of drk, however they actively hurt it with less mana regen on blood weapon. Also on paper it is good in dungeons. The reality can be really different. The elephant in the room is living dead. Sure, will heal you to full, but only *if you break into walking dead*. The problem begins when healer ignores it and desperately tries to keep you above the 1hp line, even despite macro with chat message and a sound effect. Had it happen several times already, just being edged by the healer enough for LD to run out of time. (Solution: have unproced LD block healing i guess?). Bit similar with vigilant heal. U get bit more agency here since it activates immidiately when u drop below 50%, but healers really tend to ignore its existance. And of course got to mention the classic anti synergy of TBN and a white mage spamming holy aoe stuns. So to summarize: Drk can be nice, but it could be great.

[@TheMountainLynx]

@@Necrofitz I play a fair bit of SGE and AST as well, and it's the GNBs that feel the squishiest to me. Before 7.0, PLD also felt squishier than DRK.

[@TheMountainLynx]

@@janekgaganek3871 Yeah, I'm seeing two problems with the playstyle there. TLD is so conditional with its rewards that I only ever use it for emergencies, never part of my regular mits. If it doesn't break, it provides zero benefit, and a lot of healers can recover just fine in the window it gives you. And TBN isn't really helping much in the early seconds of the pulls. Sure, it's guaranteed to break, but it's also only providing a fraction of a second of protection, which means it's not really taking a significant amount of pressure off the healer. Better to use one of the cooldowns at the beginning of the pull, and save TBN for when one or two mobs are committed to AoEs, so it's actually easing the healer's job some.

[@Necrofitz]

@@TheMountainLynx In defense of GNB, Heart of Stone is kind of trash as the 25 second cooldown ability until it gets buffed to Heart of Conundrum which actually offers major sustain potential. Heart of Conundrum capable GNB? If they manage their other mits well, ggez on surviving. Also if you had issues with pre-7.0 PLD, it sounds like you have bad luck of running into ones that forgot clemency exists and is actually a fairly potent heal they can stop to drop on their heads and is unlikely to get interrupted even at levels that PLD casting can be interrupted due to the 1.5 second cast time.

[@Ivellis]

Great video! For tanks does it make sense to compare based on aDPS rather than rDPS? None of the tanks have a raid buff so aDPS seems to have more practical meaning, reflecting how well they play into buffs.

[@Jeffroiscool]

Tier list was not linked, was a fun watch tho

[@WarGiver]

As a SMN main... We got and are getting disrespected by SE in DT. The stupid sword dragon was a slap in the face.

[@Eurodite906]

Really fun video!

[@digitalatom6433]

Another reason to play SMN: You're an RDM main who's lost all hope that Squeenix will fix the absolute sh**show that is its AOE rotation, which has been bad since its introduction, and also the lack of originality in the job changes since its release. This job has quite literally just been slapped with another damage button to press that requires 0 thinking to use for the past 7 years. Even though there's been some glaring issues with it, those issues have been neglected, and I'm definitely sick and tired of waiting for the job to be fixed and expanded upon in a creative way. The biggest is the AOE, which matters in dungeons. You'd say that they've addressed this, but it's the same bandaid on a leaking tank kind of fix. Impact should never have been removed from single target as juggling the 4 buffs as it was in Stormblood was what made optimising it very interesting, especially when combined with Mana Math. Mana Math, by the way, is when you do math to calculate where your mana should be in anywhere between the next GCD or within the upcoming burst window, even if that's 2 mins away, and you adapt your casts accordingly. That's the real-ass optimisation right there. No lazy Manafication button to do it for you, you're in charge of making sure your burst is actually a burst. The third issue is how the rotation has remained in the same 2-dimensional state and has only deteriorated since. Yes, Scorch, Resolution and now the next lazy bandaid damage button look cool, but they're like street prostitutes. You love them until you realise what they've cost you: your time- er I mean actual interesting job mechanics. If this is truly Red Mage, then this is a jack of all trades kind of job. You can cast any element spell. You can swap to melee on command. You can swap to being a healer (of course not in the middle of a fight, cuz I understand that's not realistic, but it would be cool). You can do anything. You just don't do it better than the specialists do it, all the while having an interesting and dynamic combat system. That's the ideal RDM I wanted since its release, and it's been 7 years, and they've done *nothing* to make it even remotely like that. You can't even call it Red Mage anymore, it's just a wannabe fencer mage impersonating a Frenchman. So even if SMN is more boring... you don't play RDM to let the devs know the job sucks so much you'd rather play SMN. Not that I do so often. Picto may be silly and too cutesy for my tastes, but it's broken and I do like getting 4 200+k crit/dh in a single burst window.

[@ItsSporks]

isnt smn and sch bugged atm with the dmg changes not effecting their summons?

[@MrCarlWax]

It's funny how people act as if the 5% buff isn't a thing when comparing roles, when people in WoW does consider raid buffs when comparing classes. They are literally the same thing. There to enforce diversification. "Phys range is bad if the 5% didn't exist" Cool, but it does exist.

[@lsmith604]

MCH has never needed a rework more than it does right now. The new big ability being forcing party comp with crit raid buffs is incredibly outdated design. Not to mention excessive clipping issues during overheat. A clunky mess that is suppose to be a selfish phys range dps and can't even do that right. Every expansion they just add another big potency gcd and think it will fix it and now it's just a garbage dump of big potency gcds and nothing to show for it. Also as a personal and minor complaint; tactician's animation is trash, it was a filler animation back in the day when they realized they needed to throw some form of mitigation back on MCH because it was gutted like a fish in a rework.

[@kikidffo8963]

Tbh whitemage feels very good to me personally this update astro is very nice and ive played a bit of it (white mage purest though) but even when im doing off healer with sch/sage i havent seen any good astros yet lol

[@Jon_the_Wizard]

Funny that Guild Wars 2 is sponsoring a Final Fantasy XIV video. Maybe they're trying to snipe some players?

[@Necrofitz]

They're kind of similar in being technically in the MMO space but having a strong single player focus on being able to experience story and game play at your own pace. I've seen a decent amount about Guild Wars 2, and I could legit see a lot of XIV players at least finding it interesting and even playing it without ever coming close to "replacing" XIV.

[@mxsophos3035]

I know so many people who play both.

[@CrossVaniaGames]

It’s funny actually, cause World of Warcraft looks to be trying to snipe some players from Destiny 2, since they recently sponsored 4 of the bigger D2 creators

[@blushingralseiuwu2222]

​@@CrossVaniaGames any mmo should sponsor Destiny 2 creator, since it's already confirmed Destiny 2 won't get any new expansion anymore and just updates. Means Destiny 2 is dying, and every MMO should snipe Destiny 2 players.

[@juno-6]

I love picto but I am so dumb at it in Savage content, we've cleared the tier but I still struggle to play it well. It just has the benefit of me being bad and still out dpsing myself if I was on SMN

[@evilclyde]

Reaper main here and I agree with you

[@Redfield253]

ONE OF MY FAVORITE FFXIV CREATORS BEING SPONSORED BY MY PREVIOUSLY FAVOEITE MMORPG, GUILD WARS 2?!?!?! *O*

[@Ramladon]

Although you were generous with some jobs I can agree with the majority of your assessments.

[@NabaniSaa]

If DRK got the missing mana of the 2 lost stacks from BW becoming Del, the issues people have with TBN would be nonexistent.

[@Yerblues123]

I cleared the tier in week3 with summoner, the only job I know how to play 😅

[@a.e.richardson218]

idk playing whm in m4s pf was a constant stream of 'we wouldn't of wiped if I was playing astro'

[@dessbo8883]

Funny part is a good Machinist will still out damaged the casual PF DPS. This whole "Mch is bad" ideology is coming from the hardcore raid scene where optimization is key and is trickling down to the people who don't even do savage or any actual meaningful content (sorry, dungeons are not meaningful content). On a casual level, Mch is fine and will do everything with no issue. Only on a tryhard level it's bad but now you have people who can barely do Devour on normal mode or know the difference between rDPS and aDPS with an opinion.

[@TristiAlacria]

MCH really shines in dungeons. BRD and DNC are balanced around buffing 8 people, and while their AOE rotations are pretty good to make up for it, MCH still has them beat. And even in high-end, the worse your party is, the better of a choice MCH becomes, as your damage is all on you, not distributed across the group. It'll always be abandoned at the highest levels of play as the other choices pull far ahead, but in the shadow of the meta, it has its niche.

[@Lyu-Phy]

Yeah I noticed that as well. I play Viper and basically reach the top of the dps in almost every party and MCH is often second on the list. It can out dps others that are not as efficient with their class quite easily.

[@markup6394]

27:05 --- Praises paladin, shows warrior XD

[@audeng8485]

DRK JUST GOT BUFFED!!!! We are SO back to suffering babey dark mind and dark missionary are now on addle strats we stay winning. More potency…for the blood….

[@FutayuriShironeko]

Remember when WhM was highest DPS healer when allowed 100% dps uptime? Yeah. What a shame SE can't keep healer balance consistent.

[@whovegas]

Monk gang dont stop get it get it

[@GarnetDust24]

Thank you for having fun tier list names. S to whatever are so boring!

[@setakh]

They really need to sort out Phys.Ranged. It's in sort of a limbo for a while now with a serious identity crisis + low dmg to boot (the range tax needs a rethink I'm afraid, melee uptime is sort of 100% right now, so its no longer a valid argument, at least not to this extent of a dmg nerf vs melee jobs). Jobs within the archetype are also a mess, only maybe DNC feels coherent enough. MCH has fallen apart since it's large rework back in SB and I feel like the devs don't know how to fix it so they just tacked on new and shiny abilities and called it a day. BRD feels like a Frankenstein's monster with all the disjointed mechanics that were leftovers of previous reworks or missing synergies since some abilities got removed/changed (ironically, the job plays a lot better in PvP, the skills make more sense there). As a whole I feel the devs just left the archetype to "simmer" since the 2 new jobs and the graphic overhaul was already a lot of work as is. Right now the archetype is in a bad spot, most ppl bringing them along only for the 1% buff and personally I always feel frustrated when I play on BRD and MCH, as if something is missing from both jobs to make them good?

[@RathVantas]

Not sure if the stats changed since you recorded this or if you just looked at m4s but Dragoon is only below Samurai on M4s. In fact, for "all bosses" 95th percentile rDPS, Samurai is the lowest as of writing this comment. So it seems weird to me that SMN is in gray, 2 tiers below RDM for being the lowest damage caster, doing about 430 less rDPS than RDM at 95th, but Samurai is purple tier despite doing about 330 less rDPS than MNK at 95th, and a tier above DRG and NIN which are currently slightly ahead in damage. I agree with most of the other rankings though

[@DarthRayban]

SMN is in grey not only for being the lowest caster, but mostly because of its gameplay and also worst utility AND dps than RDM

[@murky8268]

although 95 has changed for both m4 and the whole tier, more likely rinon is using cdps, not rdps, as cdps is the best stat for comparing between jobs

[@jamesrusselleriii8284]

Bring back Titan-Egi tanking and SMN will rocket up to S-tier.

[@DerioTheArtist]

DRK still suffering. Going according to plan with the devs

[@sombrego2260]

I love how all FF14 content creators are sponsored by guild wars 2. It's just hilarious to me.

[@AluneNeverMisses]

Usually I have some pretty hard disagreements about xiv tier lists but this is pretty spot on, gj rinon

[@wintlona1736]

You know, what I wasn't expecting clicking on a ffxiv video while playing gw2 was being told to play gw2, lmao

[@PKcrash]

how did he not kill anyone at 12:10 lol I had to rewatch that so many times because I didnt even know you could be that close and not kill anyone.

[@TheZorkas]

i think square enix should buff red mage so that the one and only coke geezer can be freed from picto jail 🙏

[@AjaniGoldmaneFFXIV]

Brave of gw2 to put an ad on ffxiv video. But it is a pretty good game.

[@mesosupe8837]

I think given that the opportunity cost for a machinist is a bard, they're probably fine. Poor summoner though, given who their competition is.

[@alexmmin]

With drk u both sacrifice your dmg for defense and dont have any reliable selfsustain for fkup moments. They just pushed drk for 100% time off-tank role.

[@abserd01]

Im super new to the game and can tell viper needs nerfs lol

[@ary_stormlight]

Please help a newbie out and tell me where you got the pieces for your glam at the beginning of the video.

[@wild.rose.blooms]

head: elegant rimless glasses body: model A-2 tactical top hands: magitek fingerstalls legs: gunslinger's bottoms feet: no.2 type B boots

[@Thenewkrookkud]

PALADIN BABYYYY!! WHERE MY ENDWALKERS AT

[@benjsei5974]

It's kinda sad for me that casters devided on "casters with res" and "casters without res". This tier were really low on dps check which let rdm be good, but in ultimate and future tiers rdm again will be worst caster outside of week1 early prog because of "res tax" and being not as easy as summoner. Sadge

[@markrobinson4330]

Does it make me a Meta slave. If I have been a pure monk dps in end game content for all expansions and ARR? And a tank player as well?

[@lionwhyte___2634]

I dont understand why bard is a meta class in all actuality, when I was lvling my bard from 90-100 it felt miserable to play