sadly i have to disagree for my eyes this seems to be a burn out problem not a healer class problem yes there are design flaws in the job but they are not as extreme or boring...the problem is you're seeing a healer role only from a top cutting edge high end raider point of view so unless you want the healer role exclusive which i doubt you do there is no way any of what you suggest would come to pass sorry agree to disagree on that one

For me I would love to have the GCD heals just be more meaningful. Right now, they just feel like a loss any time I use them. I would love more interaction between your damaging skills and your healing GCD Spells. Or interaction between your heals and the fight itself. Like for example, what if Medica III had a damage spell tied to it, that had a cooldown on it and that increased in potency as the HoT healed damage? It could incentivize using that GCD HoT to its full potential, letting it regen that damage so you can deal back more damage to the boss and not just trying to top everyone off quickly. That may just be a round about Misery but it would at least make using Medica III feel good and warrant some use. Or what if Helios Conjunction placed a stacking buff on your party members that would increase as the HoT healed them that you could use a skill to draw out of them at your leisure to enhance your cards or buff your damaging spells? Or in an encounter, maybe there is an encroaching plague consuming the arena and if it fills enough it will kill the party (This would be like Ex difficulty) and only GCD heals can push it back? The fight itself would then incentivize GCD healing and create an avenue for further optimization and careful planning so you can still do your damage but hold the encroaching death at bay.

you will never notice a good healer, but you will definitely notice a bad one, back in shb i was running solo healer in every extreme that did not have a healer stack check, and that continued into EW, why bring a 2nd healer when one gets the job done and you can clear through content faster with 5 dps

Decided to actually watch this. Been avoiding it 'cause I get... really passionate about FFXIV healing and I didn't want to get too frustrated. But, I watched it, and I generally agree with your points overall, though I do have some particular things that irked me. The main thing I was annoyed by is the over-praise of old healing stuff. I always find it frustrating when people glorify things that were, frankly, jank that people got stockholm syndrome for. The confused and messy healer design of old was bad, just like tank how stance dancing was bad, and how weird niche DPS rotations in the past were bad. We really shouldn't be glorifying jank that doesn't mesh together just because we found ways to make it work. Now **HAVING SAID THAT**; I understand that the point of your comparison was to stress how healers have lost so much of their friction that they've become dull, and I do agree that healing needs more friction. All the jobs do, really. I feel for my tank brothers and sisters. Healer needs it the most though. We need to introduce more friction for healers that's part of more intentional design, rather than the rough janky edges of a game that didn't understand what it was doing with healers. I think one of the best ways to introduce that friction is to introduce proper resource mechanics. The resources we have now are pathetic. Even WHM, the best of the lot, has a resource mechanic that requires basically no thought. The fact that they made resources for all the healers, and then made all those resources just some form of alternate cooldown is stupid. we can do better. I think one simple but effective way of making a more interactive resource system for healers is to give players more direct control and decision making over how they restore their resources. For example, WHM. Why is the blood lily so free? It's the main consideration of their resource mechanic, yet players just either cast misery freely without consideration or save it for burst windows. With how crucial this is, I feel like there should be more friction. Lets add some friction by giving it a long cast time, similar to the length of PCT's motifs. Suddenly, the player has to think a lot more about when they use it. And, not only is the damage behind a cast time, but it also means emptying your gauge to make room for more blood lily is locked behind that cast time as well. We could also roll all of WHM's GCDs into the mechanic, so that we don't have this problem of only 2 GCDs being the ones you use while the rest languish. And that's just the starting point. From there, we could dial the oGCD heals back and really push people to interact with the mechanic and maybe add more things on top of it. And that's just one idea for one job. There are so many different ways we can design these jobs to offer interesting decisions and obstacles to their main gameplans. Good video. Hopefully this convo goes in a good direction and the devs are able to listen and steer the ship come 8.0.

Living Liquid progression was the most fun I ever had on Healer. It is so great to see someone is fighting for what made healer fun on ffxiv. I tried to come back twice now, and each time the lack of complexity and feeling of being pushed left me bored very quickly. I miss the old ways healer worked when I had to try, thread in off globals, cram in damage by prepping or saving to be prepared, and who doesn't miss when skill made your damage numbers really matter and stick out? Accomplishments were a real thing. Solo healing Living Liquid was a real feat... doing it on more than one job meant something. Staggering movement between casts by moving just before casting finished when the server considered you done casting or during an instant cast during global cooldown was an art. It used to be that extreme effort gave amazing reward in endgame content. Maybe the Healer role would be better replaced as the Support role... give more buffs and debuffs to go along with the heals if SE is so afraid of letting the skilled healers do damage again with the power to think and plan ahead

Some of the most fun times playing white mage are probably when I round up a group, tell my other healer to just do whatever they want, and the entire group to go eat vuln stacks, and go for a healing parse. It is so much fun dealing with the mess of having stacks on everyone as well as little mitigations from the tanks and then beating e.g. the 7.0 extremes - pushing further and further, getting more and more damage. I ended 7.0 with a 100 on both Ex1 and Ex2 in healing, just messing around with friends and it was a blast.

That actually sounds like fun it’s crazy the hoops we have to go through to get some challenge out of the game. SE needs a diff formula

Aetherial shift has already saved my life multiple times 😂

Unless you’re doing savage content AND EVEN THEN the meta doesn’t matter. Everything can be done with everything. To me it’s more a question, do you prefer healing or shielding ? Do you rather dps a bit ? Or buff ? These questions will answer who’s the best for you.

5 mins in.... asdl;fkjwaEOPRIUZXCVLJKNAOPSIERTAWIEJRFLKASNDGF;KLJSNFG;LSANJKF. whelp, waited more than a minute.

This is why I only do raid content on day 1 (8-man and 24-man) and I don't really bother after this. Day 1 raid content, even on normal difficulty, is just really fun. Everyone is trying to figure out the mechanics, and lots of people are dying. As a healer, that's fantastic! Once people figure out the mechanics though well...meh, I lose all interests. I don't care much for heavily script content in general, so that's the only way I can enjoy FFXIV raids.

I always remember, for E2S, it was Clocks, or Bacon.

Your feelings on Scholar is exactly how i feel about my old main Summoner. I really miss choices mattering. I miss the rewarding feeling when I didn't screw up my old complicated rotation. Holy crap I miss bane.

I think first and foremost is to get rid of this fundamentally changing a job to make it accessible and make it an option to have an accessibility option to make it easier to play the job. Then you can go crazy, cause we know these devs can make fun jobs but worry someone won't play it due to difficulty. I don't ever understand why no one suggests have best of both worlds, complex or engaging healing jobs but with options for less skilled players to play them. I appreciate the feedback from top healers, but a more casual or midcore look could help bring ideas too. Cause for the faults of healing in arr to hw, they were engaging, and sb might have been the most fun as a healer with the balance between fun and complexity, but if its to survive in the future you need to not be afraid to make something crazy but offer the option to help. You can keep your high ceiling, but sometimes people need a tool to help reach that ceiling and don't need to raise the floor or lower the celing. Once we can get that we can really see and explore how these jobs can work

"healing is easy unless something goes wrong" *looks at the healers in speen ex*

On any content I do I’m just hoping I get the absolute most clueless team ever so I can have some amount of fun as a healer.

Every game eventually comes to this: the balance between old and new players. As easy as it is to say, 'Easy to get into, hard to master,' it's clear to me that this is a very hard thing to do for developers, and most devs will choose to make it easy to appeal to those new players first. It's not an accident that things have just gotten easier and easier. I've seen games that go both ways, but far, FAR more common are ones that snub veteran players in favor of new ones, and I bet they last longer too. I don't entirely agree with Savage fights providing the excitement a healer needs, but I guess it depends on the fight. I immediately think of things like Quadruple Crossing in M1S, think about how often it happens, and realize there's nothing I can actually do to save us when things go wrong there. Two people dead? That's a wipe. And there are just so many mechanics like that. Just body check after body check. I haven't finished the current raid tier, so I don't know how common it is. Also AOE Esuna when?

The core issue is that healer engagement is inversely proportional to party competence. Since you mention savage clears becoming "routine" I'm going to assume that you have a static that knows what's up and can perform mechanics consistently, or at least to the extent that they don't frequently force wipes or enrages. In this environment, healer is lacking things to do. However, jobs and duties aren't balanced for statics, they're balanced for party finder, and job complexity has been toned down over the years in favor of greater fight mechanic complexity. Right now I don't see how to make healer significantly more engaging for competent parties without making it overwhelming or borderline impossible for parties that have lesser gear or struggle with mechanics. That being said, I think your suggestions are actually very valid. I've been longing for something to do with Esuna for AGES, it's like they forgot the button existed. I also think tank self-healing needs to be toned down A LOT, or changed so that it costs them damage resources. I don't really see that happening because tank parsers would cry their hearts out about their DPS relying on the healer doing their job, but it's just a thought towards making party performance synergistic rather than just having everyone perform their individual jobs separately from anyone else's.

Really liked the first 20 minutes, but having advertisements every 5 minutes from KZbin have made the video impossible for me to finish. Would be nice if I could get the entire argument you present without a distraction every 5 minutes....

One of the things I missed from stormblood was the class synergy from caster and healer. Mana shift wasn't much but it allowed for the DPS and healer to work together to increase healer dps

Yes, I agree, tanks should be more self-sufficient than they already are.

My first class was Arcanist; great for you can switch from heal to dps and back again.

My beef with healer is nobody coms even after raw healing 4 people and overhealing cause my co healer is lazy or just playing as a dps... Not worth it man...

Not a healer player so can't say from healer but I feel much the same for dps. I used to play BLM and I loved that I could clear with my standard rotation but I could clear even faster with non-standard play. I played the job in a way that made it a lot harder for me and I was rewarded for it. It was great. While there is still a bit of that complexity, it's not the same. I feel I can understand making the jobs more approachable and without these complex rotation and the game would be much easier to balance but part of me what's to feels unbalanced for doing something difficult. Clearing is always great but if you are the group of people that clear quickly, it's nice to have an external challenge to strive for

Always remember, much of the time Developers change Jobs and Roles based on the Data/Feedback of the Playerbase and their internal testers. Whilst a minority may have enjoyed the "friction" of Older kits the classes had, The Majority did not which tends to skew those changes away from it. Not saying it is good or bad, but just that generally you aren't always going to get the game you want 100% of the time since they have millions of Players to keep happy and if you fall on the wrong side of that majority chances are you won't be happy yourself.

Big fan of this sheet. I love all the different Awk emotes. I do hope that one day the dev team will implement a feature that allows us to do things like this natively, rather than having to math everything out with gear.

Not impactful in dungeons is very much a thing. As paladin tank I've run a dungeon where the healer dies to early mechanic and I just finish the boss fight keeping everyone alive with mit/heals through clemency. While it makes me feel like a super tank, it definitely made our healer feel very..... unnecessary.

Been doing this a lot recently in preparation for FRU and its pretty gold. Nice to have lvl 100 kit too.

Look mom I'm on TV! Min ilvl may not be perfect, but it is a pretty good approximation for anyone looking to experience the fights the way they were, at least mechanically. At the time of recording my group and I found the fights to be just the right amount of challenging, albeit a bit frustrating at times... That said, Downscaling has intrigued me for some time now, and I've been trying to get the rest onboard :p Thank you for the showcase

I've been a healer/support main in all games I've played but XIV, and I have always felt that the game designers did not understand the appeal of the role. I tried many times to play healer, every expansion I always keep at least one job maxed out on the role for role quests and faster daily roulettes but even in my most optimistic days, I still find it monotonous. Vast majority of my mistakes playing healer in XIV happen because I simply spaced out and lost focus, it takes someone being extremely competent, borderline trolling for me to actually have to do any real work. I hope that 8.0 begins to make changes towards a more interesting healing experience overall, first step should be getting rid of 90% of the ogcd heals imo, it is ridiculous.

Tanks are too solo survivable. The fact that a tanks self heals can allow them to go through a dungeon WITHOUT healer healing is a mistake.

My biggest issue with m2s, is during the first beat, you could end up with 0 hearts. And as a white mage who really wants to use my bell to heal everyone's dot.. it's so incredibly annoying when I just can't

To be fairly honest, I partly agree and partly disagree with the statements in this video. First and foremost - to get this out of the way first! - you are a very skilled healer player and I personally have watched some of your POVs to practice my own healing and positioning as well in savage raiding. You are looking at the game from a personal perspective of a player who has been playing FFXIV for a significant time, experiencing all the changes in the content as they got added, removed, reworked etc. This adds up to your immense experience in regard to the game and the classes. I started playing FFXIV when Stormblood launched and have played various DPS classes ever since, switching to healer only for the most recent Savage raiding tier. For me - this was like learning a completely new job. So I think from a perspective of a new player or a player who has not touched the job in a more challenging content - healing is a very interesting and exciting part of a gameplay. Of course, coming from my DPS background I do miss some of the button smashing (sobs in rotation), but planning the mits, co-healing with your co-healer, knowing the mechanics and seeing them in time to prevent massive damage (especially when the expansion droppes and everyone is geared poorly for the raids) - is very fulfilling for me personally. And of course once the gear is better, the fight known like the back of your hand, things gradually become more and more ‘boring’. But that is to say about every class in an encounter. Same as tackling the new raids, or the newest alliance raid! I stood as a lone healer countless times among the downed people and needed to think about how to best save the situation - it’s a lot of fun when you can turn the game’s tide around, or so it felt to me! And it still does! So yes, I understand your point and I also partly agree with it :) Just my thoughts though~ As always take it with a grain of salt! Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us, Ri! 💕

I think you're overestimating the competence of the average DPS player. I've been healing for years and it's rarely dull.

After watching this through I find myself really wanting to yell in frustration in a number of different ways. Part of that is old dug up frustration at FFXIV. Part of that is you falling into the EXACT same stupid fallacy which got FFXIV into this mess in the first place. Part of that is the assertion that tanks are fine, which in spite of my having departed the game back during ShB, you have provided enough evidence that they are very much NOT fine. There is absolutely no way I'm going to actually manage to hit all the points that need to be hit in order to cover this properly; I spent from early HW through my departure from the game worrying over this problem and it pretty much drove my departure from the game. I am however saying something a bit different when discussing "this problem" as I am including tanking in the discussion. In a healthy tank/healer/dps type trinity based game state they can't really be separated. Regarding the whole healers should heal thing; that is absolutely not a design decision. Those that express it are failing to correctly articulate or simply citing their feelings instead and those that oppose it while matching the current state of affairs are failing to trace back the design choices to the ones that were actually made rather than being inevitable consequences. The original design decision was either that tanking and healing should be welcoming or the choice of a healer/tank/2 dps party composition. Absolutely a "road to hell paved with good intentions" moment. With tanking and healing the check of pass or fail is fundamentally hard. You have a mobs aggro or you don't. A party member is alive or dead. This contrasts with DPS being typically soft: a mob dies in 60 seconds or in 70, with a hard enrage being required to make the check hard. Because the check is hard, because the entire party is screwed if a tank or healer simply cannot make the check and because the devs were unwilling for the role to be unwelcoming it meant that pressure simply could not be applied short of catastrophic failure. But for higher end content to have meaning pressure is absolutely required. This mean that the pressure instead had to come down on DPS. So healing/tanking became non-meaningful checks and dps took all the pressure. So when the whole "solve to win" math started getting thrown around both doing dps and the degree of dps they were able to deal became the metrics by which tanks and healers were assessed alongside dps. Now here is where we run into a very big problem and what I was calling the fallacy in my first paragraph: the assumption that doing damage is an activity that feels rewarding and more damage is more rewarding. Or to put it somewhat differently the assumption that people are like the speaker. The reverse assumption was also made in the video; that the "best part" of healing, the so called chaos but better called triage is also something people would find fun. The result is that calling someone a healer to me means they enjoy executing the art of triage; a tank enjoys providing field control to the party and a dps likes their big numbers and making things fall over. Also where the suggested solution breaks; enhancing the dps kit of the healers only has significant meaning if the person playing them is a dps, presumably in addition to being a healer. Similarly why my recollection of that edition of sch was groans at having an irritatingly extensive amount of stuff to do for dps getting in the way of healing. It is incredibly difficult to get satisfying playtime from a healing/tanking perspective away from the specific fight being referenced: as a tank or healer you are being acted upon by the encounter while as a dps you are acting upon the encounter. Now I should make a significant caveat: As much as I feel it is failing to solve the fundamental problem in the short term the suggestion of reworking the dps toolkits of the healers will probably be more effective; any solution via encounter design overhaul is so problematic that if there were any other solution I thought would actually function I wouldn't be suggesting it.

Stuff that killed raiding (HW raid tiers) = good. Also imagine demanding actual important answers/decisions from small indie company that doesn't give a shit about main story script, in story game. Smh my head.

Ever since my raid lead put savage prog on hold for IRL stuff I've legit been too apathetic to play the game

Every tier I try to convince my static to do this. And every tier I fail. Surely, it'll work after the next tier

I'm a Paladin main myself, so I can't really say if healer gameplay currently is good or bad. I think it is a matter of opinion. But I do know that some of the issues told here are also dependent on player skill. In the occasion I'm a healer, if I end up in a duty with not so skilled tank, I often find my hands full on keeping the tank alive. Turn this the other way around, when I'm tanking with not so skilled healer, I find myself burning through my mits and I still take massive damage. I do think that healers currently have one or two too many OGCD heals. Even I find myself in situations that I'm sitting on OGCDs that I end up not using, because I think there's no sense in using them.

My static ran through all of Eden with this sheet these past few weeks for FRU prep. Outside of E12S (which felt a tiny bit overtuned in terms of damage intake, as noted on the sheet), these fights really do feel incredibly similar to how they did in early weeks of those tiers in Shadowbringers. It's the definitive way to experience old fights and I really wish SE could / would implement something like this natively.

Having switched to playing WoW recently, I'm really baffled by the implication that damage dealt as a healer isn't as important in that game. In mythic dungeons having a healer inflict as much damage as possible can be the difference between beating the timer and failing! Heck, some healers use the damage they inflict as a method to heal other players.

You can tell by the dragon positioning that the lightning adds in Fatebreaker don't go off at the same time. The one hidden at the back has a dragon already encircling it while the one on the right, the dragon has only just spawned and is coming down from the top. This second dragon looks like it's more related to the middle one but it is actually related to the one on the right because that's how the dragon entrance animation looks. So even without cast bars you can tell a degree that these don't necessarily all play out simultaneously. Also the spell effects around Gaia during that Quad Apoc is the effect for spell in waiting... so Quad Apoc + Spell in waiting at the same time gg can't wait :D

My quick fix, from my understanding by using this videos' info as a baseline: - Put the Tank Invuln on the Healer kit, which in turn gives it to the tanks instead, promoting synergy and enabling more lethal tank damage output. - Make Savage boss attacks crit, TB Auto Attacks and raidwides, randomly on an individual roll and lower the encounter DPS check to include deaths in the calcs. - Give Nascent Flash also to healers and name it something healer appropriate, making them the powerhealers in dungeons instead of the Warrior.

Yeah we used that spreadsheet for eden savage too! I actually started in shb so I never had the chance to try em, but holy fuck having your 100 toolkit getting your teeth kicked in by shiva is mad fun. I'm just cranky that as a tank?? e8s specifically - I use my stun. I ACTUALLY USE MY STUN. I USE A ROLE ABILITY BESIDES REP AND RAMPART. I should not be as excited about that as I was but BRUH IT WAS COOL! Cuz how often do I get to kick something in the face and stun it??? And that's only a TINY portion of the fight as a whole but it still made me go WOAH cuz 99% of role abilities just aren't used in raids which is INSANE to me. Anywayyyyy LMAO. We did a different lights rampant cuz we immediately got hit with IM NOT DOING FUCKING ILYA STRAT from the one guy who did it while current LMAO. It was just N/S rotated clockwise after first proteans to E/W, so to start, orb players would have theirs BEHIND them and would bait first protean, then nyoom through middle and play chicken with balls to the face and pop orbs. Second towers bait second proteans and soak ect.

ran all the core fights with the static over the past month using this sheet. It's been a blast.

I wish this wasnt just a streamer/content creator thing

I really want to give this a go some time. I've done all of Omega savage synced and MINE, and while it was still a lot of fun- and definitely still challenging in terms of mitigation and healing- the DPS checks were a complete joke.

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My two cents here. 1: I almost never play healer in content with others nowadays. The last time I WANTED to was back in SB with Astro Cards then. There was so much to think about. Especially as the other cards had uses besides just ‘Balance’. (I don’t do savage raiding, I couldn’t care if they didn’t draw a balance in the entire lockout). As soon as SCH lost Miasma 2 and AST’s cards became ‘Just the balance’, I lost interest fast. 2: For tanks, I’m in a similar mindset. I don’t like any tank besides DRK because I’m not entirely self sufficient (from 7.0 experience), it’s not just mindless autopilot. Also it gives the healer something to do as I’m not going to be able to stay alive forever. DRK did get some more sustain just this last patch but I haven’t played DRK this patch yet.

My experience with the current new alliance raid was that Healers actually had to do things there and I saw some healers complaining, I was confused because as a tank I RARELY ever struggle with content and on DPS I rarely ever feel targeted or in danger, so the fact that healers had work to do because the mechanic were slightly difficulty to keep pace with, which was fine because we can recover, we don't auto die, so it felt fine? I had no idea why people were complaining unless they just had awful connection.