Ranting About the State of Romance (+ Date Night) | Vlogmas Day 9

[@sabrinaselby8360]

"we're losing the plot" has never been more true. I love a silly goofy book where the plot is maybe not the best but like give me something that makes me want to read it. unending smut strung together by nothingness doesn't work.

[@annam5904]

This rant is sooooooooooo true to how I’ve been feeling as an indie romance reader since about 2013

[@rebecaa7482]

I completely agree with you about what’s going on with smut in romance books. Like smut can absolutely be fun to read, but what makes it fun to read for me as a reader is the character and relationship development to warrant it. Like show me why these characters are so attracted to each other. What it is about their connection and experiences with one another that has lead to these heated moments that I should be excited about and rooting for. That lead up is what makes those love scenes so satisfying and makes sense. Like give me a reason to care. Without it, it’s like it’s just smut that’s often very extreme and not super realistic, just for the shock factor. And I don’t like that. I want the author to give me a reason to want these characters together and root for the moments where they are finally intimate. It doesn’t need to be anything crazy. Just some descent character and relationship development to make it feel real and worth my time. And it seems like unfortunately lately it’s just been smut for the sake of smut, with very little development to make it enjoyable for the reader.

[@Carola16]

I’m over 40 and I’ve been reading romance on and off since I was about 15, and I couldn’t agree with you more. There is definitely an added layer of extra raunchiness, sex for the sake of it, and long long scenes where the characters get to it, without that adding anything to their development, plot resolution, emotional satisfaction etc.

[@LolaVegaN7]

When I read something smutty and they are getting down to business, I want to be like "yes finally" and not "oh already"? Where is the yearning?

[@annah5838]

Or I find myself saying “again?”

[@jessicar2609]

I fully agree that smut is starting to overpower romance books to a certain extent. I have found this a lot in Omegaverse romances, where the writing and plot are neglected just to get to smut that ends up being identical to every other book. I get that that subgenre specifically is heavy on the smut in general, and that is fine by me, I just wish authors put more time into an actual plot.

[@zgeorgie]

Absolutely agree, I want a romance to be about the story. It can be fluffy, or it can be realistic, but when there’s looong descriptions of the “act” I find I jump over those pages to resume the story. Feel better, Chan!

[@meimei7903]

went to read what post you were referring to of yours on threads out of curiosity and honestly i think you kind of undersold how rudely authors were talking to you? how unprofessional to be perfectly honest? you can correct me if i'm wrong as well but your post very much read like, "i've been struggling to find what i want out of new release romances in this day and age because of how much smut there is, and that's not what i, personally, want. and it sucks to feel alone in this". which is a perfectly fine feeling to express? and to want to connect with other people who feel the same? authors should honestly keep out of it. as someone who wants to be a published author someday, the whole author culture nowadays is something i'm disgusted by (because to be perfectly honest, i thought it was just a weird fandom things? why are actual published authors like this? what's happening?). proud of you for putting your thoughts out there, i'm not even someone who reads romance but even i've noticed the obvious increase in smutty books. looking at you, barnes and noble booktok table.

[@crystalsbookishlife]

This is really what got me. These authors were completely out of line.

[@brandyreads]

1000%

[@ErinIrwin]

Yes! Give me chemistry! Give me courting! Give me deep feelings! Make me believe these people actually like each other!!!

[@dianaandthebookhunt]

Agreed, the state of romance is that it's become tropey, tik-toki & steamy & that all is because it's what sells the most at the moment. You made a valid and imo true point on threads & people sometimes want to argue for the sake of being right ... they are not 😅. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you'll release a romance masterpiece someday and will show 'em how it's done and what we as romance readers crave the most 🥰

[@hangoodrich983]

Completely agree! It’s become so hard to find romances where it feels like effort was put in by the author to make us care about the characters and where the main characters even have a conversation with each other prior to having sex. Also where the plot outside of the romance is compelling and helps drive the romance forward. It makes me sad.

[@mackenziefitzmaurice8434]

Such a good take on the state of smut in indie romance. I totally agree. I miss deep emotional connections in romance. That is why I appreciate a more slow burn romance.

[@MillicentPolivick]

I feel like I have had my worst romance reading year this year because of the smut vs plot thing. There are just so many mid books and nothing is standing out

[@ridsasim4685]

I swear, I went on a no smut/barely any smut hiatus which basically equaled to no romances which is the saddest thing because its my favorite genre but I want more romanceee and emotionssss

[@JayGTheAwkwardBookworm]

Yesssss I need the emotional connection between the characters 😤😤😤

[@crystalsbookishlife]

Also, I've been reading indie romance since it was born, 2011. So...they don't need to cite the deep magic to me. I've been here the whole time 😂 and everything you're saying I 100% agree

[@carly1628]

You're so right about increase in smut. The last KU romance I picked up I kept skimming through several smut scenes cause they felt misplaced? I could be very wrong about this too, but as someone like you who has been in these communities for a long time - my theiry was it's because booktok has exploded and we have a lot of adult women who are discovering they like reading (specifically smut, which they didn't previously know about) and that's being catered too right now and so it's saturated with overly smutty books.

[@brooke4556]

I feel like the last KU books I’ve read there’s been jumping of bones within the first 25% so no relationship development. I’ve dnf’d so many KU books this year 🙃

[@JustJan2662]

Completely agree with the smut stuff. I think you said it very well.

[@GlennjaminBee]

Omg I need to read this thread. It's just so frustrating bc I feel like the majority of takes on this topic are so polarizing and it's hard to find anybody I 100% agree with. Like no, I don't hate smut and think it can be a lot of fun, but I feel like it's been so long since a character really resonated with me and I was chomping at the bit for the main couple to be together. Authors are writing around tropes bc they feel like they have to include them rather than using them as narrative devices that add to the story. It all just feels so hollow, it makes me sad.

[@jessicar2609]

I've been mostly reading fanfiction this year with some indie and trad published authors mixed in, but what I have found is that fanfiction does an amazing job balancing smut and story. It's almost hard to go back to reading published books after that.

[@themoodyreaderpodcast]

Wholeheartedly agree. I basically don’t read romance anymore and I feel like such a prude. I want to read about love not lust!!

[@Mariareads97]

I’m so with you on the state of romance books

[@TheBookRefuge]

🫖🍵 Here for the tea, girl!

[@Stephanie.Hudson]

I’ve actually noticed that too. A traditional published book used to have 3 sex scenes and they were spread out. But I just read a Christmas romance where it was literally back to back to back and I can’t stand that. I need more than sex. I have noticed that we’ve stopped differentiating between romance and erotica. There’s a difference just like a fiction novel with a love story is not a romance. It’s harder to find the type of books that you want to read. The covers all look the same and often don’t reflect the content.

[@joanne798]

I think you said it perfectly. At this point, they might as well make a new sub-genre for these types of books, having them separated out because I am so with you on wanting to swoon over the love kindling between characters and then getting so hyped once they finally do it. But lately, it’s hard to feel that way with most books are skipping over their characters going on a romantic journey.

[@crystalsbookishlife]

Please WHEN is the reversal coming?! We need it!

[@firewhiskeyreader8257]

I was SO annoyed with the way authors were responding to your thread, but I don't have the energy to engage in the discourse. The difference between indie and trad pub romance seems to be where the disagreement lies, but I definitely agree with you! I read more trad pub, but I have noticed it a lot with the Indie romances I pick up. Anyway, I hope that it didn't get to you too much? I appreciate you sharing your thoughts!!

[@aliciaulrich5157]

I got a threads account just so that I could read this thread. Lol. I wish that romance authors and readers weren't trying to always defend the genre because I feel like that has led to a lot of defensiveness towards any open conversation about the genre. I agree with you that there has been an increase. I applaud you for having the conversation. I hope more people are able to do it and see that not everyone is trying to attack the genre. 💛

[@BookedandBusy]

OK HAIRCUT!!!

[@AmyBryant-kz7id]

I think you’re so right about romance. Everyone on the internet has been talking about how they want TRUE slow burn and yearning

[@bookishmelody]

So happy to see such a balanced response to a discourse that seemed to spiral in the least generous interpretation

[@KitKatSam27]

I don’t mean for this to sound arrogant, but I’ve been saying the same thing to Henry!! I think it’s the influx of newer readers (and I cringe any time I say this bc it feels so ‘I’m better than everyone else’ but just know that’s not how I intent it). When I was just getting into romance 10+ years ago, I was a fiend for “spice.” That’s aaaall I wanted bc I was so mind blown and excited that it was a possibility inside books. As I read more and more over the years, it has been more so about the angst, the growth, the connection between the characters. Sometimes a “one sex scene” book can be WAY more sexy than a 20 scene book. However, I will say I’m glad for the turn in a way…? Bc I love that newer readers are loving the genre. I love that women are learning more about themselves and that romance can offer that to them!! But at the same time, that doesn’t mean I can’t share the same sentiment as you did in this vid!!

[@nataliedarlene]

It can be challenging as a bookseller sometimes to select a romance for someone that is newly published & is little to no on page smut. At least for me I struggle because what people buy is mostly more smut heavy + dark romance right now it seems. So, that’s what is on the shelves. I haven’t been reading much romance myself lately because I struggle to sift through it for some true pining and romance 🥹 13yo girls are coming in asking for Haunting Adeline too 😭

[@kayrayp]

100% agree with all your thoughts on smut in romances now. I've read a fraction of romance this year compared to past years. What happened to all the deeply romantic, sexy romances? 😢

[@Nicolelynnn]

when i first started reading romance/smut i was like yessss, give me all the smut, give it to me on page 40. now i couldnt care less. it takes away from the plot and romance

[@lindsaywilliamson5837]

I agree. I love a smutty book but I also like emotional, pining, character development and plot too. I've dnf'd so many of indie and Trad books for those reasons. Trad pub books have become SO sanitized it's gross. It's why I've switched from mostly MF to mostly MM now. There still seems to be more character development and plot in this genre but that is changing too.

[@bugwandis]

I specifically don't read Tiktok viral romances because I expect they will be 90% smut. I am more likely to read traditionally published romance, and am personally glad that a lot of them are moving away from smut cos I am in my late 30s and so done with that. In my 20s I didn't mind, but now I just want to read about people falling in love not banging. I recently read Heated Rivalry and the constant banging just ruined the whole thing for me.

[@Bellehashadenough558]

Let's just call it what it is. It's just bad writing. There is no connection between the protagonists, there is immediate attraction (which actually can be done well but is tricky. Especially to get readers who enjoy that emotional connection in books) writers are speeding to get through and put a book out. Which I understand, times are super tough and getting something that is making you an income out quickly is important. In my opinion it comes down to a few things: 1. Amazon and KU and the monopoly they have on authors and books. Self publishing authors unfortunately rely on KU. 2. TikTok - the more sensational a book is the more likely it is to go viral and get views. Sensational = "problematic", kinky, it can be both, either or and a number of other things but it just needs to have that cocktail of things that gets the author the views they need to get their book out there. 3. Haunting Adeline and honestly the only thing I have for this is that I didn't enjoy that book and so I blame it irrationally. Smut in a romance or in any book is not the problem. Most readers enjoy smut and those who do not typically steer clear of them. The problem is the way that the relationship unfolds. You can't fake chemistry. You gotta write that shit in. The authors have to write in tension, angst, pining! I have to want to get through the pages and shake the people in a romance because damn it! You belong together! So that by the time the smut comes around it's a "FINALLY" and not a "oh god, I'm skipping" and obviously some of these issues are more nuanced and not the authors or the readers faults. It's just upsetting because romance as a genre is already constantly made fun of and thought of as not "reading" or "intellectual" with all of these things further perpetuating these stereotypes about romance readers. 😒

[@carolineblueskies]

I think this is why most of the really popular romantasy books don't work for me. They throw in some biting one liners, call it "enemies to lovers", and then shortly after, they're banging. Like what??? Where was the relationship growth? The yearning? Most of the time those characters could get killed and I would not care. My other pet peeve is when someone posts ok TikTok about a book they really loved and are encouraging others to read and there's a ton of comments like "Does it have spice though??" "Spice level??" Like is that the only way you can enjoy a book?

[@Gracieroseyxox]

I agree with you ❤ I never used to mind the sex scene because the romance was so hyped that when they eventually got there it was so satisfying but I find that some books are having sex at the beginning of the book and when you don’t really know enough about the characters to get attached to them to so they just feel kind of meaningless and cheap

[@danastorino9247]

You stated facts. These are facts! People are getting angry because you're 10000% right about it being so much easier to make money off of a book with no plot and tons of erotica. And I disagree with trad going the opposite direction. The trad pub romance books I've read have been just as erotic if not more than indie.

[@JemilaBeReadin]

YES I absolutely agree! It’s because these indie authors are actually writing 3rotica and pretending it is romance! It often feels like the plot and the romantic development is an afterthought to the smut scenes, which is fine! But that is 3rotica! I feel like there is a lot of shame (and maybe embarrassment around it) and it is also I imagine, much easier to market a book as a romance than 3rotica, but it is frustrating as a reader. Just write what you want and market it appropriately!

[@ViolaVines]

I agree on the excessive smut these days at least in KU. I love smut in my books but it’s is a lot these days and I could totally see it being off putting for others. I personally think it’s happening for multiple reasons. On one hand shocking smut sells well on TikTok so people are writing for viral moments. I also think among indies there was talk about amazons rules around how erotica shows up in search engine changing (Idk if it actually did) however the worry about not showing up in searches if you write erotica made some indies label their books as romance when maybe erotica is a better fit . I also think the fact that a lot of indie write on trend is having an impact. Of course it isn’t a bad thing to write on trend. People deserve to make their money, but inevitably there’s an over saturation point where it’s hard to find anything else because authors who write on trend tend to churn out books faster than their peers. I’ve had more luck finding romances that aren’t just heavy on smut by finding lesser known indies, who aren’t really trend follows. That said I read mostly queer romance so idk if that would help if someone prefers MF romances.

[@michellevermeulen2759]

So I am a 49yr old ex-romance reader. I have read romance since forever and I have to agree with you...there is just too much smut in romance nowadays. There is almost no emotional connection at all. And don't get me started on the kink. This has put me off romance and I now veer in the direction of thrillers, historical novels and some fantasy.

[@crystalsbookishlife]

🫶❤️ always so grateful for you and your thoughtful content

[@TheBookRefuge]

It's infuriatingly obvious that those authors are very defensive. And like, there was no need to be. If they are happy with what they are writing... keep going. No need to alienate current and future readers showing your *ss like that.

[@BookBFF]

That’s how I felt about Not In Love. It was a lot of smut but I wasn’t even sure the characters liked each other. I’ve found myself starting to skim smutty scenes in some cases. Sometimes it feels like they’re written for shock factor.

[@jenhasaplan]

that whole threads series of events was so gross and elitist. from a non-career writer vantage point, it does feel like authors are trying to go inch-for-inch smutwise with one another. and there’s totally a market for that! there’s nothing wrong with it. as a reader, personally, my tastes have changed over the years and i want that angst and yearning, like you. i want back to basics. i want them to EARN the sex scenes. i want to throw the book because i am thinking “dear god just DO it already!!!!” and yeah, as a reader it’s easier to critique a book’s plot when you’re on the outside looking in. but there is 100% a trend of being pushed as romance when the romance of it all is secondary. the smut becomes the leg upon which the entire book/entire fictional relationship stands. and again: that’s fine! but when you’ve read the same schtick over and over, it just gets boring.

[@elizacrepes]

To preface, you're one of my favourite content creators and I agree with a lot of what you said in this video re: smut in romance, so if anything in this comment seems confrontational, that definitely wasn't my intention. I think something that inhibits productive conversation on this topic is not acknowledging how different our internet landscapes (and thus perspectives) can be. I don't have a Threads account so I'm not able to see the full context, but it seems like you were presenting this opinion as though it isn't a regular topic of discussion in online book spaces; whilst this may be the case for you, I've seen this opinion expressed a lot. It feels similar to when people act like saying 'I don't like Coleen Hoover' is an unpopular opinion, despite CoHo being hated on to an irrational extent. Another issue is the context surrounding this conversation. There's a lot of criticism aimed at smut in romance that clearly stems from misogyny, puritanism and/or being chronically online. For some (particularly people less familiar with your content), it's possible they're applying that context to you. I agree that there needs to be more room for nuance in these conversations, though; you should be able to express this opinion without people projecting a bunch of other things onto you.

[@LindsNW05]

I also agree on the amount of smut scenes lately, I've read a few erotica before, and romance books are becoming more and more like erotica than romance. They shoot straight to the sex, they don't really have a plot to the books, it's just all about the sex, which I'm fine with SOME smut, but I don't want the WHOLE book to be smut.

[@sandbagger1912]

I have given up on traditionally published romance novels. Too formulaic for my taste. Indie and self- published, I agree, are increasingly smutty, often not in a good way. I have started to go to other genres of self-published novels to find romance that is not formulaic and in service of the smut but still have the spice that exists within the context of a larger story. You really have to look given the algorithm (we really need a search engine for indie and self-published books that can separate the wheat for the chaff). I recently finished two books of a trilogy which is a paranormal mystery. The second book is all about the on-again, off-again, on-again romance of the two protagonists. The sex is tender and well written. But you get a sense of their larger relationship, which is so relatable (no billionaires, mafia, or sports stars in sight). One of the best age gap stories I have ever read. Not a romance per se since it does not follow all the rules of the romance genre, but the heat, charm, and longing are there in spades. Bottom line is there are books out there beyond the popular romances where the smut does not highjack the plot. Some of these books are in other genres that have a strong romantic component to them. Books that remind you about the joy and heartache of falling in love, wrestling with love, all the while living a larger life.

[@autumnrose_noseinabook]

I read the thread and it’s mind blowing the ignorant responses you got! But I 100% agree with you. I really love smut but without the plot, without the emotions behind a well developed romantic relationship, the sex means nothing.

[@dani.p]

Yup. I reaaaally enjoy spicy scenes😅 BUT I need a build up, I need the pinning, yearning... the down bad, the banter, the little cute moments, the tension AND THEN give me a pay off with an amazing spicy scene (or 2 max). I don't want a lot of banging and unhinged/cringe dialogue (Tessa Bailey style 🙄) that actually is going to annoy me and take me out of the story 🤷🏻‍♀

[@TheBookRefuge]

Last winter was our mildest in North Dakota in 40 years. So it was great for my mental health. Trying to keep up the good vibes this winter too

[@chandlerainsleyvlogs]

north dakota omg! here i am shivering at 60f 😂

[@regancambridge3413]

Honestly I think with the explosion of booktok it feels like the modern book industry is just waaaayyyy too obersaturated with just. The. Same. Stuff. Have you noticed there's a new romance book every day at target and they all have the same colleen hoover-esque covers?

[@chandlerainsleyvlogs]

funny you say that. i was at target yesterday and was thinking "oh i'll pick up the new brandon sanderson while i'm here" because i SWEAR i've purchased one at target before. but there was nothing resembling adult fantasy. just indie romance, romantasy, and trad published romance. oh and like memoirs.

[@averytroester7364]

are you still trying to write a book? i feel like i remember you saying that in the past but i may be making it up 😅

[@chandlerainsleyvlogs]

yeah i am

[@shaylaatiles]

I don’t mind if there’s smut, but I feel like recently they have not been good. It’s giving motel pay per view adult films. Forced and emotionally detached. Where’s the pining and the yearning??

[@MsAlyssaJM]

I hated Quicksilver because there was no connection other than physical stuff.

[@ValthatBish]

[@PinkCatsy]

I think there's this weird like homogeneity that i think has also contributed to the character work and character development lacking. I'm tired of reading about the same guy in slightly different fonts, even when I'm trying to find something that's different from the typical romance. And worse still, because it feels like "everyone knows the drill" the characters feel barely developed and not at all engaging. All this to say that part of the problem is the feeling that these kinds of books that deserve to exist are drowning out other kinds of books. There are girlies who are eating so good right now and good for them but what about the rest of us?

[@laurlovesliterature]

people were being so icky on threads in response to you. I think they felt attacked when in reality you weren’t judging anyone you were just saying that indie romance has turned extremely smutty rather than developing an actual connection.

[@muggeregina476]

I stopped reading romance because of the smut content these days. It is sooo boring. My romantic heart is in mourning.