Why Rappers Were Scared of King Von

Why Rappers Were Scared of King Von

[@TheDawgFatherBih]

I was so interested in these T-Roy stories I forgot the video was about Von💀

[@elvpse]

Same

[@gottiboyzaeYT]

stg😭😭😭Troy was one of them hahaha

[@taiwomoradeyo4378]

Chicago is such a dangerous city

[@Mzwakhe434]

​@@gottiboyzaeYTthe 3 hour documentary really puts it into perspective it's crazy

[@JaquavianMoore]

Onb

[@pauloigbokwe]

This turned into a T-Roy documentary and I love it

[@bigm2385]

Thats ironically because von claimed mostly T-Roy work, von only smoked innocents and non-factors lol

[@pauloigbokwe]

@@bigm2385 imma slap you right in your face

[@Astro8Buddy]

Right? Love it

[@7sgroupnetwork234]

Word😂

[@tdevin210]

⁠@@bigm2385von smoked his opps, we call gang bangers innocent now?

[@glowbaby1794]

I dated a guy who was a member of the BD back in the 80s. He was lucky and got their blessing to go into the military once he turned 18. He finally got out of Chicago, the gang life, and ended up being a cop after the military. Crazy how life works.

[@craigcook6233]

Thank God

[@scottallan1441]

Did his body count increase after he got out the gang ? 😅

[@ricksanchez3204]

He got their blessing to go in the military because they thought they could use that to their advantage I feel like he was just smart enough to keep going after he made that right turn

[@thetraveler1182]

I know someone from LA that has that same story…couple of them actually. Respect

[@GlitterSparklez1]

Being a police is no different than being in a gang. At least the gangsta keeps it 100. You know what they are about. The police kill, steal, and destroy with pay. Even the so-called good ones are dirty. They stay silent. I would rather take my chances depending on myself. We at least have a 50% chance of survival. With the police it's a 0 %. My skin makes me a weapon. My fear of them could mean I di3. The best thing we can do is never get caught up in the system. Avoid police and be careful who you associate with. Your friends can easily become your enemy. I've survived this long because I stay to myself, watch my steps, and keep my eyes on everybody. I only trust my Mother.

[@tochukwuejim2450]

It crazy how folks glorify life like this.!

[@lchrlstlanl]

its sad and pathetic, these people are actually evil. if hell exists, thats where they are

[@damebabacardiop6483]

Fr, you are right!!

[@DonPablitoGaming]

true

[@charnettabeckom5788]

Yep . . . . LL Von ! !

[@lchrlstlanl]

Pathetic right?

[@RevornParkinsonTowers]

King Von was the only rapper who was actually about it, and he didn't even sneak diss 💀

[@Pesossngl]

Ever heard of madmax

[@PalozachSSJ]

King Von a real G #RIP

[@OsirisParquette]

Mo3

[@OsirisParquette]

Honeycomb Brazy

[@OsirisParquette]

Plenty of others

[@JPEPIC88]

The amount of research is insane. It’s crazy all these people will be more remembered because of these videos than we ever will when we die

[@Pickles-ri3yq]

They're also dead cuz of these videos & thinking any of this stupidity is important. Every one of them made enough $ to get out & move on but chose not to. It is a shame but was absolutely a choice.

[@nirvanastacks4885]

This is so damn sad smh All these young kids teenagers took it upon themselves to beef wit each other smh

[@ShaqavehiArtBranded]

🙏🏾💯 So much senseless death.. glorified by children/ people who will repeat the same cycle.

[@Bot5.]

It’s the environment their elders had created they didn’t take it upon themselves it’s normal for them just like going to work is regular for us

[@theonewhoasked1482]

Endless hate

[@LovelyBrownBear-cm4ju]

Its so sad these young lives, no self esteem nor direction no self worth no value for others lives its a no win situation, it reminds me of the west coast in 80s and 90s this country has failed the youth. 🤲🏻

[@breelee4362]

A lot of wasted talent too. To think what they could have done if they could have just moved on from the streets and then be role models for other young street kids and help to break the vicious violent cycle. Alas...it was not to be.

[@6olf6wang6]

Everyone fears you till they dont, what comes around goes around

[@milehi303]

Believe no one ever stopped fearing King Von! And if you think otherwise you are out of your mind... Sometimes fear alone drives a person to do the unthinkable

[@jonbee5780]

@@milehi303 You’re a dummy, stay offline dick holder, we run guys like Von out of town!

[@bretswan6744]

​@@milehi303hard to fear a dead man. May he rest in hell

[@OGsabrina]

I'm 12 and this is deep

[@ericjones6280]

​@OGsabrina you shouldn't be watching this Lil folks

[@beastside9400]

TRoy story would be a crazy movie.

[@thomassias7175]

Vroy story

[@TomCawley-k2c]

There is..boys in the hood... he the one sucking for a cheeseburger 🍔

[@Gunny_furr]

Real

[@Davonta_smith]

Nah the movie should be called the hood is t roy

[@itsmeashley2083]

There are documentary’s on both Von and T.Roy that are like 3 hours long each. I’ve only finished Vons, but it’s super interesting. It’s published by Trap Lore Ross on youtube, you should check them out.

[@BattleInk357]

Oh man, crazy the impact this individual had on society. Even the glorification of these antics years after the persons death, just wow

[@IBADSNU]

African American society at it's finest.

[@skurdibbles7913]

@@IBADSNU most of these artists money coming in is from the white community. both communities glorify criminals and violence. its almost as if were a homogenous society now......

[@X862go]

agreed imagine dying in a gas station like a drug attic.

[@tomalex6449]

@@X862goaddict??

[@Rollinghard7]

​@@IBADSNUshut up methany

[@sberry80]

The death of OD Perry kicked off the war thats killed dozens people. Just T Roy and King Von had at least 20 bodies by themselves. And on the otherside you got KI , o51 melly from different crew's but same side

[@chloewright1]

It was tooka's de@th that started it all off.

[@TeewopShiesty]

DOZENS? hundreds bro

[@ItsKrissy_]

​@@TeewopShiestynahh not Dat much😂

[@willieburchett7291]

Boy tooka death started it Odee was a get back for tooka

[@billygood4051]

Oh also psychopath serial killers are OK. Come on now are you serious suckers?

[@shrimpydads]

The fact that there’s so much movie footage used to depict these acts of violence must make this issue hit closer to home for some.

[@tymac3306]

So happy i live in a nice place,..and was brought up right!! When i see this,....i feel fortunate!

[@bryantrobin7087]

doesn't matter where you live it's how you live

[@Mikehowarth1988]

@@bryantrobin7087where you live and your environment can directly effect how you live and your choices.

[@GlitterSparklez1]

No place on earth is nice. I grew up in and live still in a "decent " area because the citizens in my neighborhood don't play. Not the police, we don't play. We keep gangs and bad characters out. I came from a good family. Lots of people have, and some still turn bad. You can grow up in a tough area and turn out to be a great person. People need to stop normalizing foolishness. You chose your choices.

[@GlitterSparklez1]

​@@bryantrobin7087facts.

[@Imran_Music_2003]

​@@Mikehowarth1988 Not can, it will have effect

[@staceyjackson5192]

It’s so sad how these young boys threw their lives away

[@josephujoostaa4462]

It is good that they are no longer around terrorizing people

[@817TH]

It’s also sad that no one cared about them .. these boys needed help as children

[@Hay-Hay24]

Yeah, I agree, but at the same time, they were bound to be in it. They grew up around these people, knew these people, had reputations to upkeep, and more. There was no backing out, or leaving, or really, joining. It was this or that.

[@DylanBreaux-x7r]

No it's not

[@Telamakis]

They were never boys Future inmates from the jump

[@AS34N]

The amount of ego these dudes have is absolutely childish 😂

[@Fl_ninja]

Fragility disguised as bravado and ignorance

[@chloewright1]

​@@Fl_ninjaabsolutely 💯

[@yesyup9111]

@@Fl_ninja On point

[@terrybutler4922]

​@@chloewright1😮

[@nonono5905]

I mean how about you go tell them to their face instead of talking on the internet because we know you are all talk 🤧😂😂

[@MsDaideyMaingi]

I mean no judgement, but as a non American , this is so wild to me. Like these people are so young . Too young. So much violence and it seems like for no other reasons other than revenge . Seems like an expectation that it will just keep going and going.

[@BigStandardTv]

Revenge is a disease

[@angelataylor4284]

You’re NON American. You answered your own question. You would not understand the black American

[@PepesCashino]

Its a shame... and they are proud of being Americans, wow

[@Romulu5]

It happens all over the world.

[@PepesCashino]

@@Romulu5 No

[@MyHighHorse]

Imagine realizing as an old man that every thing was only to impress other men. You know what we call that.

[@CocoBanana199]

Gaaaaaaaayy

[@younesyassine9409]

Them hood glorifying niggas are the gayest people in earth more gay than a 18yo blue haired starbucks worker that listens to sam smith

[@PatrickRauen-g3g]

Gheyyy

[@iprodigy6723]

Rappers rapped to to get out of the hood, and take care of their families, these new rappers have zero sense. This kid chose the gang life over raising his child now look at him, it's for the better tho should keep that child out of harms way.

[@gabriella3140]

Amen 🙏🏽 to that!

[@EliteBuildersOK]

I was born and raised in Chicago, IL until high school. Did I get into a lot of fights walking to and from school ? Hell yeah. But it was just until somebody had enough. A shame how that has evolved to kids shooting each other either because people got scared to take an ass kicking or street sissies started jumping on guys ten on one too many times. Glad we moved to Oklahoma City when we did to tell you the truth.

[@syndicate5357]

Oklahoma can be pretty bad in certain areas too.

[@EliteBuildersOK]

@@syndicate5357 I lived 3/4 mile from the water at Lake Texoma for three years raising my son in Mead, OK. Plan on returning one day with my Queen.

[@ActuallyDontCare]

yeah tulsa is pretty bad and if u go a little more north out to turley is super bad@@syndicate5357

[@gogadgetgo3125]

Good on you, and good luck!

[@AmakArtandsol]

Nobody should be jumping on nobody. This is how if started.

[@july9566]

Getting older is funny , seeing these kids reminisce about their childhood friends lol in 2011

[@isaiahkoufos3573]

For reeeeal

[@TheWatcher-pw3om]

Great rapper but sad about the war between oblock and 63rd because so many young and talented people gone

[@ovechkin100]

talented?

[@ricksmith7659]

Us normal people say good riddance 😊

[@sooooooooooo5261]

They ain't talented ffs 🤣🤣

[@janjensen7661]

​@@sooooooooooo5261nether is you or me nether so whats your point😂

[@sooooooooooo5261]

@@janjensen7661 the point is they're famous and rich without real talent and we stay poor with out a talent either ✓

[@Life_is_beautiful723]

Man after watching all this listening to Vons “What it’s like” song just giving me goosebumps man. Sad to see so much life and potential in these young people all taken

[@TOPGNBR1]

This is sad young man killing each other over what nothing this is sad this needs to stop life is precious god bless you all and I wish everyone the best

[@crlheureux]

I remember when I knew all the rappers. Now every hood has a rapper only the hood knows and they died from perceived jealousy . Makes it not mean as much. Been into rap since ‘81 rappers been getting killed young for nothing.

[@40rollsonly]

Imagine being so self centered you think that your knowledge of a person’s rap career makes it impressive or important.

[@kiral9668]

This a good vid.. I was stuck watching it all the way through . This sum shyt 🫣

[@lesliemarez3583]

Same

[@jenn6294]

It's only 25 mins . Short attention span ??

[@anthonywhyte4608]

T roys last words were the same as his homie odee perry ' you got me bro'

[@jaymaniak407]

You got me or they got me?

[@kristenlovingmysonja6321]

Vons last words were “u let them get me “😢

[@kristenlovingmysonja6321]

“They”

[@Jerry_Gallo]

nah, he said "i'm gay"

[@mikegomery12]

You did a crazy job blending all those movies and shows and scenes together to narrate this absolutely wild. well made You got a career in filmmaking

[@joelcruz9415]

New Jersey Drive is such an underrated movie.

[@soundless3664]

Wow, Chicago looks so peaceful. I'm considering moving there.

[@tanishamcdonala3181]

bless all us here amen.

[@keishat5428]

These Movie Clips is ON POINT!!!!

[@aart5541]

Muwon was my favorite character of the show, I wish the directors did more with him

[@S0L12D3]

14:55 I’m not surprised he slipped out the cuffs! The dude was super skinny and I’ve seen people who are double jointed and can get out of cuffs….

[@Scyy1M]

fyms kinny? bro was ripped

[@anthoniomcguapo9097]

If you can see ribs, you're skinny.. ​@@Scyy1M

[@ipoop4359]

He was buff as hell😭

[@S0L12D3]

@@Scyy1M he was a twig bro look at his legs

[@S0L12D3]

@@ipoop4359 buff and tone are not the same thing

[@johncoleman5974]

Real killers appear as normal people until its time to die . Skilled killers never announce themselves

[@laverage4273]

Great telling. Great Video 💯

[@stonebricks42]

Fine, I’ll watch Juice again

[@DawnnAyeshaVance]

Bahahahahahaha

[@corbinwhite5003]

Great video! Narrative, edit etc. Good job!!

[@patricku4406]

I’m from Germany an the US is different, I’m 24 and think I know though guys, but this gun violence overseas is just crazy different and unseen over here

[@Myhaay]

guns don't equal tough, quite the opposite, a kid can pull a trigger, but not everyone can go face to face with another man, these are just manchildren crying over their egos and dying.

[@Ivan-b5c3k]

Cuz they raised by a strong independent women so they grow all emotional like their mom's lol real talk

[@r.c.l2569]

@@Ivan-b5c3kfacts cuz it’s by design. It’s an epidemic.

[@joelcruz9415]

It's not gun violence. It's GANG violence.

[@Jerry_Gallo]

us though guys are just actual lunatics with a gun.

[@fistlast8863]

You are going to need a flow chart to follow this story. Great video, a lot of info!

[@ornellatsoubaloko8433]

What I find crazy is the fact that they know anytime someone would shoot at them but never walk with bulletproof vests 🤦🏾‍♀️

[@thenicholas7346]

Wow yall out there just Killin each other. Good God man.

[@X862go]

darwin awards all around !

[@josephujoostaa4462]

70 iq activities

[@poppatang4216]

King Von didn’t die “tragically”, it was only a matter of time. Live by the gun, die by the gun.

[@RWAC685]

People Worshiped Von, Even Though Von Bragged About Taking Out All These Guys. Von Himself Said He Was A Good Kid, Got Good Grades, And Had A Good Family Life. He Chose The Streets, The Streets Did Not Chose Him. Von Was Just Another Kid Acting Out.

[@bdogmarshall]

this went from a video about von to T-Roy real quick

[@eliassosa1461]

I don't understand how T Roy didn't have a gun on him in the store? When they walked up it was slow. Why would these guys ever walk around unarmed?

[@robertspringer92]

Cause the truth is they weren't soldiers, just misguided kids

[@memann2012]

All these Black lives that didn't matter to one another is so sad. They would never realize none of this matters.

[@spacecowboy5095]

The "And for good reason" In relation to T Roy, his face says it all. Reliving all of T-Roys antics

[@cyncynjones4112]

There is a way out of all this madness because we got to care about each other enough to stop the violence against us. We continuously fall for the trap.

[@oldschooldogy316]

Nobody was afraid of him outside of Chicago. That's why he got done in outside of Chicago.

[@kristenlovingmysonja6321]

Not true lol😂

[@angelpeoples4877]

He was set up believe that. It didnt have nothing to do with gang stuff. It had alot to do with money

[@Vinnie528hz]

My friend is about 89 years old. He was in Chicago pd for almost 30 years. Did 2 tours in Vietnam. Did one tour Korean War. He did tell me if you sum up all years worked the violence in Chicago it won’t equate to one day in Vietnam. Nothing will hit him like in Vietnam did him.

[@edwardglen4996]

Also these nicknames are crazy 😂 imagine your child calling you " Can't get right"

[@nirvanastacks4885]

The fact that all them died like clowns in beyond me SMH we all supposed to be loving each other and my brothers are murdering each other this world needs Jesus Christ 😒

[@chae5572]

I think if Jesus was gon do sum he woulda by now💀🤷🏽‍♂️

[@nirvanastacks4885]

@@chae5572 no u clearly don’t understand how God works

[@nirvanastacks4885]

@@chae5572 we have choices in life u have to do the right thing

[@isaiah_parker2663]

​@@nirvanastacks4885what's the right thing to us might not be the right thing to god

[@drippyog3935]

​@@isaiah_parker2663end ur live duh

[@KODAKWHlITe]

If u have broken ur thumbs before, u can easily slip out of cuffs, I'm just saying. 😅

[@chloewright1]

Or if you're double jointed. I've got out of them for that reason.

[@TonyCox1351]

Absolute rubbish, if you break your thumbs the bone just heals it doesn’t give you special power

[@Blrdman]

Yeah certainty it's not because of the way the bone heals

[@nickengelbrekt6424]

Or if you have little girl hands 😂

[@Theturbobooster]

Wth u on lol

[@Fullautomania]

crazy how some of em tried to start a new good life but got clapped

[@davidwavidshmavider]

Anyone who listens to this music, supports every single crime they talk about. Stopping listening would lessen the desire for them to do it. We will all support horrible things. Then pretend we’re good ppl.

[@TonyCox1351]

I pirate their music so it’s cool

[@davidwavidshmavider]

@@TonyCox1351 haha. 👍

[@MaryRogers-s9n]

He was more than badass. Babyfaced,good dancer,sexy,well built,cash,confident,nice smile,wasn't born bad,victim of circumstance.❤

[@carlettecannon8716]

I AGREE WITH YOU FAM 100%

[@carlettecannon8716]

I AGREE WITH YOU FAM 100%

[@carlettecannon8716]

I AGREE WITH YOU FAM 100%

[@sinnerfreaky]

Thanks for the documentary.

[@speddemonsskating1062]

This video just explained the whole lore in perfect detail ☠️🙏

[@MC_Albert]

This is sad, back in my day, all we did was rap, that's it, just rap

[@Kaweenga]

All about the crazy life mindset! My respect!

[@samueljoba6342]

As a black man, all I think of is.................why all the gang violence?? Do we just love......dying?

[@LJB2003]

To answer ur question… yes y’all do 😂

[@jadesingleton4110]

@@LJB2003it’s trauma. Collective trauma.

[@Cantthinkofwhatshouldgohere]

Its Deuteronomy 28

[@johnrambo6265]

For power and drug trade

[@domoface666]

J-Hood going thru hell tryna pronounce “funeral” correctly 🤣🤣 boy said “his ferneral was packed” @4:12

[@maymaypooch]

😂😂

[@michaelbaquera4538]

It’s sad , they can’t read and write and only think about guns

[@WsBxSwagz]

Saw von once in traffic I was a 16 back then asked the man if he could slide me a couple band bro laughed at me and rolled his windows back up 😅

[@Theturbobooster]

Wtf😂

[@Alexftp]

Begging 😂

[@devitus781]

😂😂😂

[@renaz630]

This whole story is nothing but sad.

[@gabriellea.3732]

This documentary was all over the place. Thanks tho.

[@jarretoles9845]

I'm over 30, I hadn't even heard of these babies. This is heartbreaking..

[@dirwinlewis6191]

My point is if King Von didn't through hands at QUANDO RONDO he might've been alive to this day

[@swealer]

Hey guys, it would be cool if you could help me on this one!❤ If you know a movie/film/series which was shown in this video, could you please tag the name in the reply's to this comment? Would be very much appriciated! (Non-native english speaker, sorry for spelling/grammar errors😢) #1: Baby Boy #2: Friday #3: In the Streets of the Bronx #4: Next friday

[@TonyCox1351]

I’m pretty sure I saw Paid in Full on there

[@jony-b-good9757]

Moral of the story: nobody is invincible

[@escalationclaws8941]

Best video about Von. Thank you.

[@mbaldonado412]

We need a tv series off all this madness!!!

[@fafh716]

No one scared of another human. Scared of dying and never seeing it coming. Scared of seeing it coming. Scared of leaving everyone you love in a violent way. Scared of not being able to protect ya ppl.

[@EbukaNicholas-r7x]

The one thing all this young lads lacked was the Love of Christ. Insecurities, trying to force respect and instil fear, power, revenge. etc.....all for the same expected and inevitable END. "Is it really worth it all"? It is better to die giving out the love of Christ than to die a blood thirsty demon.

[@nickkoroly1475]

😂😂😂

[@gtestastretta1]

If there’s such a thing as evil, it comes from ALL religions. Anyone who believes in sky fairies is a complete retard. Just be a good human FFS.

[@liammcilwaine4386]

Great video!

[@earleneprocter4699]

Why would you kill a man for wanting to start a new life away from the gang ? These gangs have such ruthless rules, why would anyone want to be a part of them ?😮

[@jorugarushia9167]

Blood in, blood out. That’s their motto.

[@guccilix7101]

I straight up thought I clicked on a video of T-ROY because how invested I was

[@jacobgalloway9123]

What a rich and beautiful culture.

[@patriciarambert9261]

Nah, this is a portion of black culture copied from gangsta movies like Goodfellas and dozens like it but took it to street level.

[@Mikehowarth1988]

@@patriciarambert9261no they took it from gangster rap and the elders that pressure them into carrying Weapons.

[@baen4773]

That's not African culture that's Americans

[@savillewilliams]

They were all so young....they hadn't lived long enough to know another way

[@JimLahey_and_Blulian]

I bet mlk is soo proud

[@bradley5k]

If there is a hell. He’s in it.

[@jaybeam1466]

A healthy and functional culture that isn't completely poisonous.

[@Theoriginalmaverick23]

Stop killing each other over Bullsh!t.

[@di0medies0011]

Nah - they need to pick up the pace so the idiocy exterminates itself

[@peace2u430]

Young lives gone over over petty beefs. I wish they all knew better and were still here. This type of lifestyle ain't it. It's actually suicide, because when you live like this you're automatically putting a target on your back. Can't wait until the gang life becomes corny and kids can live long enough to become elderly.🙏🏽

[@oldschooldogy316]

I never feel sorry for these gangster rappers when they die. They live by the sword and they die by the sword. I did feel a little sorry for Boss Trell though. That's really sad to hear that he was trying to leave Chicago and had bought a ticket to Iowa and everything and he died because he could not stay off of social media. If I was him I would not have posted that I was leaving until after I left and then I would not have told anyone where I was.

[@kashstudiosinc1330]

This guy was just a plain out murderer

[@SeanLives]

These aren't rappers they're just gangsters, King Von was both

[@Epiphalactic]

he said "tragic death". im like... was it tho? was it tragic? or was a violent criminal removed from the earth?

[@Its-Tragic]

It’s Tragic on all platforms

[@Epiphalactic]

@@Its-Tragic I don't consider it tragic when violent criminals are stopped. 🤷

[@breezyfromstatefarm4468]

​@@Epiphalactic A killer killing another killer, he didnt kill innocent ppl he killed ppl that was pretty much js as bad as him

[@Ivan-b5c3k]

Buncha of crash dummies all the politicians are just laughing at y'all killing each other

[@justinhansford7510]

God bless our young kings, we gotta make a better life for our youth some how some way this really ain’t it

[@Frosty_yo]

"He was a good kid about to make big changes in his life!" Someone somewhere probably

[@starlight007]

NO GOOD MY DEAREST FREIND. Dont follow, dont replicate. dont hurt dont become someone you are not. No return.

[@Javier-r5m]

T Roy was a true gunslinger s.i.p

[@rocco_420]

Von was the guy, so many rappers these days try to portray themselves as

[@idiamindada9905]

Never heard of this boy until he got shot.

[@PepesCashino]

Who dafok is that guy and who cares?

[@Dancinontiktok]

They were so intimidated by him and his talent it was truly about jelousy and hiding that they were insecure.

[@Q7anwezrd]

no one is scared of him. he went after soft targets lol a little girl a handicap dude and an irrelevant college student

[@Godiseverywhere17]

The saddest thing is that someone made a documentary about these clowns who act string with guns and no brain

[@josiahvonb3426]

This would have been perfect if David Attinborough was the narrator.

[@Tnino_xt]

I feel like I have just watched a movie🔥💯😭🙏

[@mitchconner1132]

Fascinating culture.

[@ivanlukianov7057]

Von story ❌ T-roy story ✔️

[@jorgeaguirre8754]

I don't think Von slipped out of the cuffs. Looks like the other inmate he ran to had a key and unlocked them. There's staff and insiders that work together to get things like this done for some good ol Cash.

[@the_boxman35]

W editing

[@oklart377]

So when is the world ready to talk about the psychology behind all this..? ´´He was a savage´´... Well he was a child.

[@Clutch_Kick187]

Raised by women, no one to tell them they ain't that tough.. No one to set an example for a young man.. This is why they dress so feminine and let a few words make them so angry the feel the need to murder to look and act hard.. None of these type ever plan to work.. They are doomed from the womb..