Nightreign and unhinged lore speculation with Crunchy | Yggdrasil Podcast 49

[@JustMe_Inq]

Can't wait for the Bed of Chaos Duo fight

[@OD91MJ]

@JustMe_Inq when Black Myth Wukong had a sliding animation I was so worried they borrowed that boss concept.

[@SolasComposer]

Best boss in gaming history, 2 of them? even better.

[@kaanasik8108]

:D I want the Jabba the hutt fight from ds2

[@thehundreds00]

ceaseless discharges

[@Captain_Torrent]

Hello

[@quickdrawmcgrawww]

you know what? *names your king*

[@killerking2346]

If they call him Faraam, I'm gonna flip

[@noamias4897]

@@killerking2346 no way u found the ring

[@noamias4897]

@@killerking2346 faram azula

[@peteybakedziti8908]

I do hope the lore is all self contained in Nightreign. The idea of a post shattering world without the Erdtree is pretty interesting to me

[@oddlang687]

The way they've talked about the world being part of a different timeline definitely makes it sound like it's all self-contained lore

[@Swoleson_Rebel]

Its self contained in a cetain sense. But it is still based on the shattering, the shattering itself is what causes the different timeline/realities to merge with the other souls worlds.

[@TheGroingler]

Finally someone is mentioning the complete lack of giant fucking tree in the trailer lol

[@godly_potatoe69xd19]

I mean they’ve pretty much completely said it’s self contained as ishizaki said “the two should be enjoyed as separate stories” it’s self contained in the sense that the dark souls stuff and night lord stuff stems mostly from a different version of the shattering, but they share the same base world. Basically it’s like if your entire adventure and the events setting you there didn’t happen but the world still existed.

[@Thirteen13551355]

@@godly_potatoe69xd19 That sounds a lot like a Tears of the Kingdom situation. Kind of unnerving.

[@lulu_7t]

I need more Elden Ring lore podcasts. This was such a fantastic listen.

[@slocaine]

I like the idea that Patches and old bosses arent literally the same person, but rather the same form coalescing from natural laws. Like carcininsation, where many animals tend to independently evolve into crabs.

[@nightknight9212]

Time for crab

[@ahriik]

Now THIS is the SotE lore discussion video I've been waiting for since the release

[@Galamoth06]

Duke's Dear Freja was originally going to split in half and fight as two spiders after dealing enough damage, so the dividing bosses thing makes a lot of sense.

[@thehakiguy7006]

That would have made that fight so much more interesting. With the exception of the Lost Sinner, all the Old Soul bosses in DS2 really sucked.

[@porkwhisperer3050]

⁠​⁠@@thehakiguy7006 Ironically I think lost sinner is the worst designed old soul boss because it’s one of the few bosses that’s terribly balanced for low adp characters. All though I think both old iron king and dear dukes Freja were too easy and simple. I think the fight would have been decently balanced for a duo fight if they made them both a little smaller

[@thehakiguy7006]

@@porkwhisperer3050 Fair point, but I’d argue that’s more an issue with ADP being a bad system in general. With proper i-frames I think it’s a solid fight. Its one of the few boss fights in the game I felt like I couldn’t mentally check out of lol

[@Galamoth06]

I never knew ADP gave more s so I literally never once leveled it in my many playthroughs of the game 😅

[@thehakiguy7006]

@@Galamoth06 Yeah I think if you get it to 20 you have normal medium-roll s that you would have in DS1 and DS3. You would have to look it up to know that because the game doesn’t properly communicate to you what the stat is so you’re not at fault for that 😂 it’s one of the biggest criticisms most people have of the game.

[@ZayedHeroPlays]

I hope theres a trio Fight of King Vendrick, Velstadt & Fume knight

[@tristenatorplaysgames6833]

That would be so sick

[@ViperJoe]

Even just the duo of Velstadt and Raime would be incredible.

[@shiftgaming101]

I'd love to see a re-work of the Ivory King fight. 😌👌

[@natro10]

I used to be a big believer in the "well of it's cosmetic then it's fine" argument for live service stuff until I played Stellar Blade this year. The exploration in that game isn't amazing but I was happy to do it because it meant I could find a new outfit or a can with a cool design on it and I remembered how much of a carrot cosmetics are in games and how they really aren't allowed to be proper gameplay motivators anymore because it's all in the shop.

[@StevenWays]

You're comparing a single player game to online multiplayer games

[@bigboybandon6113]

They arent microstransactions, you earn the currency to buy them exclusively through playing, how is thay not a gameplay motivation?

[@dirbridhebdjsjxnbnfjrej1982]

@@StevenWays Cosmetics earned through progression in multiplayer is really good too, look at older halo games

[@saulgoneman]

Lore disagreements: The blackflame symbol being a fingerprint isn't all that mysterious. We're told by Ranni that Empyreans are chosen by the Two Fingers, and the GEQ is an Empyrean. The fact that she was at war with Marika while being a chosen of the Fingers is a hint that the Fingers are not remotely unified by one divine mission. Ranni's Two Fingers is trying to make Ranni god, the Roundtable Fingers want Marika to remain god with the Tarnished as her consort, and Malenia and Miquella's Two Fingers presumably supported their mission at some point (though maybe not post-Miquella deciding to do away with the Golden Order). I also don't think Radahn could possibly have been around during the War against the Giants - the WatG happened at the "birth of the Erdtree", and the Erdtree was around during at least the end of the Liurnian wars, before Radagon and Rennala fell in love. This is more speculative, but I think the Greater Will might be "dead"/changed. Metyr has a lot of black hole imagery going on, including her second phase OST being inspired by the "sound" of black hole signals. Ymir's hat has a "circular design" that "represents the Greater Will and its lightless abyss". Jolan and Anna carry weapons of "bottomless black from which no light can escape". The Nox spell Eternal Darkness makes a black hole, and is "the despair that brought about its ruin made manifest". They are also targetted by the Astels, which are "bastard" and "malformed" stars "born in the lightless void far away". So here's what I think could be going on: the Greater Will was this glorious celestial force, that created life, but then at some point far preceding the events of the game it collapses into a black hole. Life continues forming within it, the Astels, but Metyr and the Fingers lose contact. The Nox learn the Greater Will's state through stargazing, and become atheistic nihilists. The Astels worship the black hole Greater Will as their creator, and so attempt to destroy the Nox for their heresy, driving them underground. The Greater Will itself doesn't care, its disconnected/dead, but the people of the Lands Between interpret the fate of the Nox as divine judgement. This theory isn't perfect, because it means the Nox Swordstress set is misleading us when it says "the Nox invoked the ire of the Greater Will", and I don't like it when people say "oh yeah this contradictory item description is just lying", but the DLC feels like its screaming at us that the Greater Will is at best uninvolved (and lots of information in the base game already implied that). I also think a very literal take on "God is dead" is fitting for both GRRM and Fromsoft, and tying it in to cosmology by making God a star and its death the formation of a black hole is just really fucking neat. Marika also probably wasn't creating the bottom Rune Arc in the trailer like you both suggest, she was creating her Rune that you can see at the top of the Elden Ring (which represents both the Erdtree and her eventual crucified state). I think the Elden Ring long precedes her and Placidusax's god is unknown, she definitely is connected with Farum Azula, but that shouldn't be surprising if Farum Azula was the dominant power in TLB before the Golden Order. The beastmen seem to have faith in the Fingers (they see their own fingers as "symbolic of the intelligence once granted upon their kind"), so maybe Marika just came along after Placidusax's god fled (presumably due to Bayle fucking shit up) with the support of the Fingers, and the beastmen (led by Serosh?) were like "yeah alright". Or Godfrey conquered them for her. I probably have more to say when I finish the podcast but thats enough for now.

[@noamias4897]

I hate to be snobby and pretentious like this but if they're getting confused on something as straight forward as Radahn warring against the giants I can't really take Rata's lack of understanding the lore seriously

[@saulgoneman]

​@@noamias4897 There is a lot of lore, its understandable that he'd forget some. I do think the game's lore is more legible than he claims though, people just get hung up on stuff that doesn't really matter that much (and intentional mysteries that are there to make the world more interesting).

[@simonealcazar816]

1:23:41 We literally have an item description saying Metyr is the mother of the Two fingers and in midfight literally birthed fingers right in front of us. And you’re still questioning if the Two Fingers was actually born from her? We are freaking cooked as a lore community if the most blunt thing Fromsoft has ever produced is up for debate. Good god.

[@Beta12328]

Two fingers and finger creepers aren't the same thing.

[@TheGroingler]

@@Beta12328her title literally calls her their mother. Also if you watch a video inspecting her model, you can see baby two fingers ripping through her skin

[@TheFondalizer]

“The mother of all Two Fingers and Fingercreepers was in turn a magnificently gleaming daughter of the Greater Will, and the first shooting star to fall upon the Lands Between.” I think it's pretty clear that the 2 fingers and 3 fingers were born from her. And for whatever reason Metyr stopped using them as her envoys. Or they were only envoys of the greater will and thus took their own action after metyr lost her touch with the greater will.

[@killerking2346]

@@simonealcazar816 😑

[@davinsosa1438]

Take a deep breath my friend 🧘

[@thecobe-lee9674]

Lore discussions w/ Rata and Crunchy are always peak

[@shhwonk]

It would be so funny if the Elden Ring spin-off answers lore questions for Dark Souls/Elden Ring, while Tears of the Kingdom, an entire new game, gave us nothing.

[@elima_fe]

It's always a pleasure to listen to people who are so passionate about games and lore. And being friendly and respectful to each other at the same time is so nice to see. Crunchy was a great guest.

[@JC-vb8dn]

Yeah, especially after the last guy he had on had to be practically dragged kicking and screaming to talk about lore.

[@pmf94]

When I look at Melina, she gives me strong Millicent vibes. Part of me feels like she's similar in the same sense that she's an offshoot of the original gloam eyed queen.

[@nathankurtz5960]

The concept of Hypostasis would probably help you guys a lot in conceptualizing the multifaceted identities of many of these characters.

[@MossOwnsYouYT]

I love that people are freaking out about the lore implications of seeing the Nameless King and demons in Elden Ring when Patches is just literally squatting RIGHT THERE.

[@omerozel4716]

😂

[@LeggoMyGekko]

“In order to coexist, it has to not contradict” Exactly!!! Exactly this. If anything, the fact that they seem to understand the fans’ deep connection to ER lore and want to avoid changing too much, means anything that we learn about the events before/leading up to the shattering, are almost certainly going to be canonical. Just because it’s self-contained doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to be irrelevant.

[@rjeffrey743]

Crunchy isn’t unhinged he just looks at Miyazaki lore epistemologically instead of forensically! Both good lenses to see through though and it’s why I like these Rata/Crunchy conversations

[@tlk777]

Orstein and Smough and God Skin Duo four bosses vs 3 players

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

Cinema

[@Locaneo]

Hello, I've always wanted to make a big Dark Souls/Elden Ring lore video and a while back you said you wanted to hear the craziest lore theories out there and it's related to Nightreign. I'm not certain how crazy mine is but I've talked to Bros Code about it before and would like to email you about it Roskr. Is that possible?

[@VFFP54]

He has has his e-mail listed in his channel's "About" section. I'd take my shot if I was you.

[@kyewaters1539]

The dung eater is solaire just a long time after he got the bug off his head

[@ViperJoe]

"The bugs are back"

[@marcosramos5117]

So glad we have lore hunters that can package all these events and elements so I don’t have to piece it all together myself, just expand on what their theories are.

[@badsamaritan8223]

I'm fascinated by the idea that the runes were automatically distributed when the ring was shattered. I had always assumed that there was some kind of pilfering of runes, when it was shattered. That all the children frantically scrambled to snatch runes from the shattered ring. I love the comparison to Risk of Rain. The unfortuante thing being, that Hopoo Games is gone. The Devs were hired by Valve and closed their studio. They're probably going to do incredible work at Valve, but they won't be making RoR again, especially since Gearbox owns the IP now.

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

I like the idea that they were granted to those who best embodied the attributes of the Great Rune (Godrick getting his as he's of the Golden Lineage so it's almost like giving it to Godwyn by proxy).

[@-Sparagmos-]

Marika being in on the plot is not convincing in the slightest to me. Who does she answer to? Why bother with such a convoluted solution? Also, the «strong evidence» as you called it was weak as hell. The point of her dialogue was to convey her sorrow in relation to the sorry state he was reduced to.

[@OD91MJ]

For my mind Elden Ring has always been another painted world.

[@sleep_enjoyer13]

I think the painting at the end of DS3 is symbolic of Elden Ring, but definitely not literal.

[@simonealcazar816]

I feel like a lot of people that keep saying that Elden Ring is the Painted World actively ignores that most of the painted worlds are snowy lands and the description of the girls world “ a cool and gentle world.” Is the literal exact opposite of what the Lands Between is.

[@mush2282]

thats actually interesting, because the last line of SOTE DLC is Miquella saying he wants to make "the world a gentler place", and in Ranni's ending you bring about the age of "the cold and chill night"

[@frezhunter]

Remember there was a dead centipede demon in dark souls 3 in the old demon king boss area. So they probably used that model and gave it animations for the new elden ring game

[@LegoJolazStarkiller]

The night Lord could be the unused old king of the eclipse from Dark Souls 3.

[@DaddySaddo]

Wasn't that pontiff sulyvahn?

[@tristenatorplaysgames6833]

@@DaddySaddono potiff i’m pretty sure had a different age planned

[@AnthonyDoesYouTube]

Idk why nobody is mentioning the similarity between Night Lord and Dark Lord? As in the ending from Dark Souls 1. And that being said I guess it could possibly narrow it down to maybe Gael or Manus or one of his offspring from Ds2, or some canon adaptation of the player character(s) from the Souls Games. I doubt it would be a straight recycle either and I think they will do something very interesting to extend the lifetime of the game

[@thecrypticstench]

⁠@@tristenatorplaysgames6833 that is incorrect, there’s footage of pre-release that shows Pontiff standing in the kiln of the first flame.

[@LexFicta]

Two points: 2:40:00 to 2:41:21 Marika and the Night of the Black Knives This one continues to be a thorn. Based on what he said months prior on the same subject, it seemed that Rata had in large part relented on his ideas of Marika being involved in the plot against Godwyn. Unfortunately for me, here it sounds as though he hasn't yet completely forsaken his anti-Marika ways. He's used the phrase, "mountains of evidence" for this before, and I maintain that he was mistaken on that back then, too. It irked me to the point that it prompted me to upload my first video, one arguing that the supposed evidence against Marika was nothing of the kind. Rata is right when he says that reading Marika as the grieving mother makes for a compelling story, one that is compelling enough to make him doubt his (in my view poorly founded) suspicions. *Obligatory note that Queen Marika did nothing wrong and everyone in the Lands Between that opposed her had it coming.* 2:35:48 The Demigods and their Great Runes Rata phrases it as the Great Runes having "went to" the appropriate Demigods, but unless I am mistaken about the exact word, the game refers to them having "claimed" shards of the Elden Ring. The implication from that word is that the Demigods physically took pieces for themselves after the Shattering but before the conflicts that followed. The only exception to this is the Great Rune of the Unborn, which must have been or been inside off the Amber Egg, depending on how one parses its description. If that be the case, then the Great Runes do not simply "go to" any of the Demigods, and so there is no reason to think Crunchy is correct about the Rune of the Unborn having been Ranni's. There is also no explicit reason to think the Great Runes are associated with lineage, as Crunchy suggests. Something minor but notable is that there are a total of 9 Great Runes referenced in-game. 8 of these are encountered directly, with Ranni's only being spoken of as her having cast it aside. 9 Great Runes is noteworthy because in the Lord of the Rings, "nine rings were given to the race of Men, who above all else desire power." I.e. this is in part a Tolkien reference that Martin snuck in.

[@AJtehJetPlane]

I don’t think Marika is Evil, but I also don’t necessarily think she is completely benevolent or righteous. She seems to have the practice of forsaking those that have served their purpose or failed to be useful. Godfrey, Maliketh, the nameless demigod children, Renala, possibly Morgott and Mohg, Messmer. She seemingly has no relationship with Malania or Miquella and these are mostly before Godwyn is killed and she becomes a grieving mother.

[@LexFicta]

@@AJtehJetPlane I very much enjoy this subject. Godfrey is a great example, and one I've considered a lot. If anyone knew her well, it would be him. Yes, Marika sent him away, but she did so with the promise that he would return. When he did, he appears to have no hard feelings towards Marika, and seems perfectly willing to carry out her will for a Tarnished to become Elden Lord. In Melina's quotes from Marika, the tone of the delivery and choice of words, referring to Godfrey as "her lord," suggests a strong (if perhaps highly formal) relationship. This is in stark contrast to Radagon, who she essentially calls a dog. With her children, it's worth noting that all of them carry an element of danger and threat. She was a wife and mother, but also a Queen, whose responsibility is to protect her Order. Mogh and Morgott are cursed and potentially politically upsetting. Malenia is Caelid waiting to happen. Messmer appears near enough to an uncaring sociopath that is unbothered by the harm he inflicts. Ranni actively conspires to betray everyone. Viewed in this kind of context, everything Marika did was done for good reasons. She was the force of Order in a disorderly world, and her own children were some of the ones who undermined everything she tried to build.

[@AJtehJetPlane]

@@LexFicta I can agree with those things but at least with Messmer I don’t imagine that he became a religious zealot on his own. I imagine that he was groomed in this way and as such he became a deadly tool that Marika used to get her revenge against the hornsent. I think that the fact that Messmer seemingly has a hospital for the jar saints shows that he’s not entirely sociopathic. There is also still Renala who Marika either sent Radagon as a honey pot to seduce and then discard her as a means of taming the Carians or she herself spent a significant length of time as Renala’s lover only to throw hee away when it was time. While that was effective in protecting the Golden Order it is incredibly cruel. You also have Maliketh who from his own dialogue seems to feel betrayed by Marika. You also have the unnamed Demigod children that she herself says “Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifice.” On one hand it sounds encouraging but it supports my point that she has and will forsake those who either serve there purpose of fail to do so.

[@LexFicta]

​@@AJtehJetPlane Several good points. Messmer. It's not just his behavior, but also the Abyssal Serpent inside him. He was a monster on a leash, loyal on the surface but a long-term danger underneath. I say this because of how he refuses Marika's will for a Tarnished Elden Lord and turns against his mother during his fight. Isolating him in the Land of Shadow while giving him a useful task is a way of preventing him from harming the Golden Order. I.e. he cannot hurt what he can't reach. Also, Messmer himself doesn't seem to be a zealot; he seems to fill the role of a prince **leading** a crusade rather than personally being a devotee. Rennala is more difficult. Given the way Marika refers to Radagon (with strong distaste) and that they oppose each other, it seems reasonable to think that Radagon was acting on his own in his dealings with Rennala, rather than seducing, using, and leaving her on Marika's orders. When the game says Radagon wanted to learn from Caria to become whole, I think that should be taken at face value. He was acting for himself. More than that, if it was Marika who wanted the knowledge the Academy held, why did she not send Godfrey, who succeeded against every opponent Marika tasked him with? Because it wasn't her aim at play, but Radagon's. Maliketh. While what happened to him is sad, it should be noted that he still carried out Marika's will. Loyalty to her is the core of his personality. He is her shadow, and in the shadows she needed him to stay. He was a tool, created by the Fingers to serve her. He did exactly what he was supposed to, and exactly what she needed him to. With the quote from Marika about her children being forsaken, note the rest of it. She specifically starts by calling them "My children beloved." Marika does not seem the type to speak sarcastically, meaning she did love all of her children. Also, note that she **does not say whom they would be forsaken by.** Finger Reader Enia, when speaking for the Two Fingers says, "The Greater Will has long renounced the Demigods. Tarnished, show no mercy. ... The Fingers have willed it so." I would suggest that Marika was in fact warning her children that the Greater Will would not suffer failure on their part. While Marika's actions might appear cruel or indifferent, I would argue that this is an intentional move in telling the story of the game. Painting Marika as they did was for the purpose of ambiguity, to help make the narrative as complex and nuanced as it is. That aside, I'll repeat that as Queen, Marika had her responsibilities; she had to make the difficult choices. As a mother, meanwhile, her children did not stay children, and she knew they would make their own choices. She couldn't protect them indefinitely, and certainly not from themselves. In both of these roles, I hold that she did the right thing.

[@AJtehJetPlane]

@@LexFicta The only area I would push pack on is with Messmer, he is loyal to Marika I feel even at the beginning of our fight with him, he only breaks the seal and releases the serpent when he is clearly losing the battle. Him seeing that a tarnished devoid of grace being accepted by his mother who he literally lived his life for, and yet he remains forsaken was the straw that broke the camel's back. He remained faithful to Marika and the Golden Order for who knows how long after he was abandoned in the shadow lands. Which also brings into question if you can even justify all the actions that Marika has taken to protect the Golden Order when at the end of the day she took direct action to destroy the Elden Ring even if the incident that motivated it was the death of Godwyn. It also makes me feel even sadder for Messmer and Morgott who were both arguably more loyal to the Golden Order than Godwyn because Godwyn was a friend to the dragons and seemingly supported the dragon cult. We have no way of knowing when these other demigod children died, but their deaths were seemingly less impactful to Marika and that is also saddening. The fact that Morgott is an omen and that Messmer has an abyssal serpent within him is also likely Marika's fault to begin with given some of the theories regarding the enemies of Marika afflicting her children. So in virtually every way these children are being punished with these afflictions due to the sins of their mother and then she abandons them because of that.

[@Munky_Bombz]

"MY EYES"

[@andrewb3760]

“Our souls are all alike”

[@PregnantAdamSandler]

I feel like the "cosmetics can affect gameplay" argument is just kinda... Yeah im just gonna say its dumb. Sure, i can imagine some cosmetics having an effect on gameplay but like, no one is tricking the hot pink spartan into thinking they dont stick out like a sore thumb, they want to look like that. There was a crisis on FF14 this one time because people were signing up en masse for like a program where they would mentor newer players but not doing that because signing up gave them a little icon on their username. Gamers do in fact really like being able to customize their image in games.

[@GravemindHD]

i mean it literally is Namless king tho. the dark souls twitter post confirms that the returning bosses are from dark souls.

[@LycanDreams9159]

I would be careful taking the social media managers opinions as literal lore. For all we know the social media manager saw the buzz dark soul was getting because of nightreign and thought tweeting about would keep people talking instead of anything authorized by the devs of night reign or even Miyazaki himself.

[@worldclassishot8554]

Stay delusional ​@@LycanDreams9159

[@sheabishop6200]

the shrinking arena seems like a great idea. it's a visual indicator that time is running out just like the music change in Outer Wilds. it's a clever and non-invasive way of avoiding having a clock on your screen

[@ladyazalea6131]

At least as far as i can gather, it only appears as the day ends, not at the start, so it closes rather quickly. I bet the day night cycle and the skybox will be a better clock in that regard

[@sheabishop6200]

@ it’s a “oh shit I need to get my ass moving” sort of thing when night falls. I think it’ll be fun as a mechanic

[@RandobobandoTV]

Everyone's talking about it being Canon to Elden Rings but not asking if it's Canon to Dark Souls Maybe that's the twist

[@smashtankful]

It's not canon to anything is the point, I think anyways

[@epiccthulu]

Elden ring and Nightreign are both canon to the Lands Between mythos, they are both linked to a cosmic event. so there was one timeline then Marika split it into 2

[@simonealcazar816]

@@epiccthuluThey’re canon to that the Shattering happened, it being related to Elden Rings history is very unlikely given that it seems they will be going for multiverse excuse, “Ohhh the Night lord converged the universes together or there bleeding into each other so we have DS bosses now.” I doubt this has anymore relevance to each games lore other than “a some parallel universe of ER and DS got converged at some point.”

[@smashtankful]

@@epiccthulu that's more a justification for the game's existence

[@epiccthulu]

@@simonealcazar816 If that hawk character calls himself a “Stormhawk” then we know that Stormhawks in the land between are birdmen. If we find out the Nox had a direct hand in the night of black knives, then we know that’s what happened. ANY lore they give us that takes place before the shattering is canonical to Elden ring, they share a past …not a future

[@birthrite8254]

Listening and I think crunchy stumbled onto a theory is posted on reddit. Giants spirit tuned life into golems. Eventually we get rot of metal into verdigris. The Rot started to form biological life aka the crucible. That is why Romina is win Rauh. The area the crucible knight is looking for the secret origin of the crucible. Spirit calling and forging are the origin of life, made from glintstone spirits. Its why gold and glintstone are connected. Eta: yup. Crucible connection

[@LexStout-Composer]

I wonder if what spilled out of the forge is the lava flood that burried Rauh, covered the divine towers and and brought the Numen to the Land of Shadow in their stone boats

[@ghostmojo7264]

Taking this as a pure spin off with coop as the selling point. Cutting the lore to size will be fun but seems mostly for fun till the next full game

[@daine3832]

A link between ressentiment, asceticism, and the downtrodden? really wish there was an extremely famous 19th century german philosopher who wrote about all those things together

[@johnmattison1209]

Its all canon, you just have to BELIEVE

[@josiahcmiller]

Essentially that’s what canon comes down to, at the end of the day.

[@lonelySires]

Theory: Elden Ring Symbol symbolizes a convergence of Worlds. - Shadow Lands and Limveld are parts of the whole, before the shattering - The Lands Between, is the world between the shatered parts -lim-[root(latin)] - line, boundary, edge, threshold Veld - ~plains Gloam Eyes Queen was probably Marika before she undergone a purification to become a god - Messmer and Melina are probably Children of the Gloam Eyed Queen - Radagon was a part of the Gloam Eyed Queen, discarded like St. Trina, came later back to Marika per law of regression

[@simonealcazar816]

BTW they said there’ll only be a few DS bosses in the game. Don’t expect literally ever single DS boss, it just seems like cameos then anything else.

[@PregnantAdamSandler]

With the monetization thing I think a big factor is that the average layperson doesnt know how much things really cost to develop in games, but it normally skews higher than people outside the industry think it does. This is doubly so for large online games like helldivers. So people will normally defend it because they dont really know if the game is bleeding money or not.

[@quincykunz3481]

So much would be easier if we could confirm whether radagon was ALWAYS part of marika, or if they were merged later, and when did that happen?

[@mandatorial]

1:48:30 They were such an enigma. Thanks for bringing those items up!

[@HamburgExpress]

I think the general story is simple, it's just that there is so much independent stuff with a handful of connections. That makes the whole story a pot of mixed up lore.

[@psykomyko730]

I've been a bit disappointed in the overall lack of SotE lore videos. (Not singling you out Rata, just in general from lore tubers) Like I understand that SotE sort of made things a bit muddier in some regards, but Ive been hungry for more lore speculation and I haven't been sated. So thank you for doing this with Crunchy and I hope to see more soon! Even Tarnished Archeologist has only made two videos, even though it seemed like he was gonna make a bunch more :(

[@genzu1111]

Why was this channel so opposed to talking about shadow lore? Even if it was disliked, tell me why

[@societyman6591]

SotE lore is bad and introduces basic coherence and continuity issues, most likely why most channels don’t want to get into it.

[@psykomyko730]

@@societyman6591 So you, a random person on the internet, thinks it's bad so that's why everyone isn't making videos? Don't be silly. Even if SotE lore was bad (it's most definitely not), that still wouldn't have changed my stance about wanting to see more videos about the lore.

[@codymiller4119]

Ratatosker really thought he was on to something with with her pulling out the lower half of the Elden ring but riddle me this why is there a bigger version of the Elden ring in The crumbling lands it basically shows that the Elden ring has been around before Marika

[@godly_potatoe69xd19]

I mean they literally say she has some weird connection to farum azula and they don’t know what that connection is, but it is likely that she got something from metyr or someone else and remade the elden ring (with the rune arc) to make her own version of it.

[@NamelessKing1597]

I still think that Marika was involved in the night of the black knives but Godwyn wasn't the intended target, She was. I think the Greater will found out and locked her in the Erdtree so the assasins couldn't get to her, it was too late to back out so they just went for the only other eligible being in the palace at the time.

[@FlawlessHair105]

Never had I ever expected to hear new elden ring theories like these. Absolutely loved this video! Thank you Ratatoskr and Crunchy that was amazing. I want to hear more. I want to play the game again...

[@pamafa3147]

From the sounds of the interviews I have seen, the Nightlord's influence his pulling in stuff from other worlds. My guess as to why the timeline diverges is that in this timeline the Nox succeeded in their summoning rituals

[@zkmudd6140]

Its Manis

[@Rathadude]

Hi Rata, what happened to your Wilds pre-launch update stream? I saw you streaming that, but now I can't find it anywhere to rewatch.

[@saiga3]

Please keep this podcast going

[@nathankurtz5960]

The descriptions of Martyr seem to echo certain Christian imagery passages of the book of Revelation. Metyr is awfully close to the Greek word Meeter, which means mother of. In Revelation the world is entranced by the whore of Babylon (a sort of anti-type of Mary, the virgin Mother) riding on a Beast. So a falling star (again Luciferian imagery) carrying a beast matches this image.

[@blakebailey22]

I genuinely don't understand why people want the Souls and Elden Ring universe to be connected. Each setting has their own themes and world building, and mixing them would diminish them both. It's why I hate the fact that the X-Men are in the MCU, with the X-Men being focused on diversity and discrimination- those topics mean nothing in the face or literal aliens and sorcerers.

[@ashtonarizmendez698]

Night lord has to be the tarnished

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

Night Lord, Simp of Ranni

[@u-mos8820]

I'll be curious to see how they handle character design mostly I think. It's new territory in a lot of ways, but if there is a power progression system that is a little more focused than their usual games' operating style the developers need to make the classes really cool, fun and varied since there is a decidedly less ways to play the game. I've always thought that was an important part of the Souls-like games which is why Sekiro was balked at by many, myself included. It's a great game that didn't deserve that but since there was just one weapon style it didn't feel like a Souls game to me, just a stellar action/adventure game. Huge shot in the dark here but I get the feeling it's gonna feel somewhat like Armored Core but with multiplayer. Missions in AC are pretty contained while you earn more gear and parts as you go, the story moving almost in the background at times. Obviously there's the battle royal elements that are new, but that's basically just a timer without numbers. People respond better to ER's type of fantasy. I think I'm cool with all the worries people have espoused for the game so far. It's execution from here. I know it's a bold claim but, It will all come down to execution of cool boss fights in this boss fighting game.

[@tristenatorplaysgames6833]

The bosses for co op lack proper health and posture scaling and could use help mainly being able to target swap. Any bosses that have target swapped mid chain in ds3 of elden ring give a fun time but the fact that a lot of bosses target one person.

[@jodyestevens9911]

lovely podcast

[@tequila_tibbs7938]

Respect to crunchy for publically admitting the only reason theyvare discussing potential lore crossovers is because they are monetarily incentivised to do so. More lore = more money. Its pretty clear that From had an opportunity to use their well worn assests one last time (i hope) to experiment with gameplay ideas and turn a buck with little risk. Personally i am sick of the whole From formula. I want to see miazaki do something in a new engine, new assests, smaller scale, with slow and deliberate gameplay, and dangerous new gameplay experiments like demon souls.

[@TrompetenThomas]

Yeah, I'm so sick of constantly fighting anime-esque bosses that are literal gods meanwhile the only thing you can do is press circle and attack. It's just not fun to bash your head against a wall over and over again. We need more interesting gimmick bosses and creative environmental challenges instead of Nameless King N.57.

[@rily2885]

crunchy has a point about tailored classes, yes you can adapt it to your liking but you can do that too in DRG for example, and still, the special tools every class have gives every character a set of specific skills that make every character unique and important despite the build, I think nightreign could be like that at some extent

[@tequila_tibbs7938]

Ueda: “design by subtraction” Miyazaki (post ds1): “design by addition” He needs to go and replay ICO

[@Kyred808]

Artorias, Ornstein, Ciaran, and Gough would be an awesome multi-boss fight

[@tristenatorplaysgames6833]

The bosses for co op lack proper health and posture scaling and could use help mainly being able to target swap. Any bosses that have target swapped mid chain in ds3 of elden ring give a fun time but the fact that a lot of bosses target one person. Ruins the fun.

[@nicholashaywood7949]

Does anyone know ratatoskr’s reaction to the nightreign trailer? I feel like he would’ve been excited for what was shown

[@weed_houze]

Metyr. Her body got swallowed by black hole If in this game we stumble upon part or her whole withered corpse then it will explain a lot. Confirming weird multiverse thing, leaving potential and possible explanation to connect this worlds

[@yarro7428]

I can't believe Fromsoft is making their own Time Quangle.

[@peridrawland5955]

Regarding the Killzone controversy on Helldivers 2: Just today the devs announced that the 2nd half of the crossover, which was going to be originally available on the Super Store after 5 days of the first drop, is now immediately available for free, the items of the 1st half of the crossover that appeared on the Super Store will remain there and in rotation, but the rest of the crossover is now free and available in game. Clearly they received pushback on the way this crossover was handled and the absurd prices.

[@shidderalpha2293]

I was kinda hoping that nightreign would take place after Ranni's ending what with it being called NIGHTreign and all.

[@magisterludi4347]

Fell god trapped in the forge? Transpositioning kiln

[@marcofromtropoje3169]

If night reign is anything like risk of rain 2, I’ll be absolutely stoked

[@martk647]

Nightreign is the type of game that we shouldn't take too seriously. Its more like a fighting game but pve. The map is randomly generated too from what i heard..so every gameplay might be unique.

[@TheRealLeviGonzalez]

Anyone else driven MAD how crunchy described his theory on the Nameless King in Nightreign? I was like practically yelling to Ratatoskr "he means it's just the character model but it's a totally separate character!!!" Lol 😅

[@backyarddad4198]

It’s a realm where dream matches can happen but everything else is basically canon.

[@alephnole7009]

speaking about how tiresome it is to replay elden ring over and over, thats my main complaint with sotet. getting a NEW character or even a NG+ character back into the dlc compared to any of the previous games is a massive undertaking. and the faster you get there the more under leveled and under prepared you will be, way more so than previous games. replaying the dlc takes days of planning and prep, knowing exactly how much of a build you want/need to even get into the dlc let alone tackle its content. then actually collecting all that stuff in a good order. or NG+ run which never feels the same as a new character with a unique build.

[@afterbyrner]

Amazing pairing as always

[@chainclaw07]

the fact that Nightreyn will be able to play solo AND offline means that they are going to offer the whole game at once AND they are not going to have paywalled or timewalled/Fomo content like battlepasses. MAYBE they give us free updates of new weapons and bosses but they've made it clear that they are still supporting a playstyle where you may download the game, take it to a cabin in the woods and the game still works offline.

[@Vi69061]

It would be better if the bosses' AI could adapt their tactics for solo and co-op play, but implementing such dynamic adjustments would require a lot of extra work for balance.

[@trevor7514]

I went from beyond happy when I saw the trailer drop. Then I got really pissed when I found out it's basically an elden ring co op mode game. Then I got happy again because I was convinced Elden Ring was done forever so at least there's new ER gameplay now. Not exactly what I personally wanted but it could be amazing

[@sleep_enjoyer13]

I'm just happy they're trying something new and fun, since I already love Elden Ring gameplay I'm excited to see the evolution of it. Ultimately I just like playing videogames, and Fromsoft's are always fun imo. I was worried there would be nothing for ER as well, and while I still hope for something more akin to the original experience, I am very happy we are getting this.

[@fearan9406]

Im pretty sure the Illuminate are moving towards Meridia

[@vasylpark2149]

For me my thought is to treat it like DS2 lore in DS3 and DS3 lore to DS1. DS2 in DS3 is used to explain concepts in DS3, and DS3 fills in information that wasn't fully apparent.

[@irlfc9]

I think any unifying thematic analysis for Elden Ring has to be centred around Ranni. You have this cosmic great force trying to stitch everything back together after some big bang level mistake. You the player arrives into the lands between and we see with our own eyes in excruciating detail how much of an utter failure those attempts were. The lands between are a complete mess. Then Ranni comes and we see her big brain plan of separating the lands from those trying who are trying to put it back "together" and living with the results for better or worse. That is a thematically rich story.

[@TheFondalizer]

Metyr's soul states this. “The mother of all Two Fingers and Fingercreepers was in turn a magnificently gleaming daughter of the Greater Will, and the first shooting star to fall upon the Lands Between.” I think it's pretty clear that the 2 fingers and 3 fingers were born from her. And for whatever reason Metyr stopped using them as her envoys. Or they were only envoys of the greater will and thus took their own action after metyr lost her touch with the greater will.

[@mikedelgrande5296]

Why do ppl always say Sekiro is reactive gameplay? That was never my experience with Sekiro or any game like it. For me it was just like any other Fromsoft game. I learned each enemies move set by dying a bunch of times and then no longer had to have split second reactions because I already knew what that enemy was going to do. Like. This enemy attacks 3 times, pause and then attacks 2 more times. So I hit the parry button 1, 2, 3 - 1, 2. Imo it’s not reactionary if you’re already anticipating exactly what the enemy will do. Reactionary would be if an enemies attacks were totally random and unlearnable. Totally RNG so that you’d always have to have a split second reaction.

[@ShipShapeMusic]

Messmer was adopted is canon

[@Carian_Inspector]

Wylder has a Carian connection calling it now!

[@sixft_under]

This game gives me hope for a future fromsoft title with fully integrated co-op for the entire length of the game. I know theyve seen how popular the seamless co-op mod was

[@Majin2buu]

Really want them to bring back the Pursuer from DS2. It would terrify those who never fought him before while also bringing back good old PTSD back from those of us who did fight him. Just make him randomly be dropped by his giant eagle while the players are just doing random things. Oh, their pain will be beautiful.

[@tequila_tibbs7938]

“How to steal in plain sight - an auditory guide” /s

[@aboanas195]

46:17 Fromsoft elitism 😂

[@simonealcazar816]

That view towards live service isn’t unique to Souls fan

[@VoidTower_]

Fans: Could we get a boss rush mode for Elden Ring? FromSoftware: *makes a masterpiece with EVERY. SINGLE. BOSS.*

[@johncrondis4563]

With all the stuff about stars and "outer gods", with Metyr spawning dozens of "microcosms", with there being many golden trees in the elden beast fight, with Velka behind Pope Turtle, with how careful Miyazaki is about language (like he didn't lie when he said they werent working on Elden Ring DLC or sequel, but it is obviously elusive and slightly tricky/deceptive), with the themes of fire being "bad" in Elden Ring and it is the "past/ancient", and how the "sun realm" is ancient, I think we can understand and dance with the possibility of a multiverse. I don't think Miyazaki would have allowed it to be termed and set in Elden Ring unless the core of it lined up with the established lore. Otherwise I think they would have just made a more obvious collage of things, with sekiro, bloodborne, DS, etc.

[@badalrana10]

I love the lore podcasts man Rata, you should watch a video called "How the Greater Will fell to Chaos"

[@arseonist2686]

People having no problem with Helldivers monetisation is yet further proof that the slippery slope is not only real but an iron law of reality.

[@Swoleson_Rebel]

Nightreign imo confirms the souls worlds exist in the same universe or in the same reality but not on the same planet itself. Or maybe on the same world but in different points of time. Possibly. We'll see, but theres DEFINITELY a solid connection now in some way and no amount of mental gymnastics can avoid that. Its Elden Ring and souls now The shattering of the Elden Ring was probably the beggining of the other souls realities being created. The power that broke from the Greater Will is beyond the worlds existences, and thus when it broke it leads to all souls realities and worlds blending and merging

[@Danil_JRK]

Did he really used the witcher as an example of a game that doesn't knlw what it is as well as calling the DS remake a cash grab, a game people kept sayin that it needed a remaster. Is this dude serious?

[@Ditendo64]

Primal gold is tinted red. I think they are saying in some way that it is fire

[@sleep_enjoyer13]

If you want to get really meta you could say that 'Elden' Ring translates to 'fire' ring. Though this is symbolic of its history and place as a successor to dark souls, not a direct reference to the dark sign. It could also speak to the origins or nature of the Elden ring in world but obviously that is more complex.

[@zkmudd6140]

I think Manis is going to be the night lord, pulling people in from other games like he pulles in the player charcter and marvelous chester in DS1

[@thelynxter733]

Why does everyone think the two finger talisman has legs, it’s just a shadow of the two fingers meant to look like there is a large light source behind them. If I’m wrong that’s fine but that’s always how I’ve seen it.

[@angelobluec]

I want chalice dungeons and trick weapons first and foremost.