Raven responds to BIG E saying he "FELL OFF" after TSM made HISTORY at ALGS Champs & Year 3..

Raven responds to BIG E saying he "FELL OFF" after TSM made HISTORY at ALGS Champs & Year 3..
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All Credits Really Goes To The Owner And Creator Of These Clips & Funny Moments!
Apex Legends (ALGS): / playapex
ImperialHal: / imperialhal__
Sweet: / sweetdreams
Reps: / tsm_reps
iitztimmy: / iitztimmy
Hiswattson: / hiswattson
Stormen: / stormen
Verhulst: / verhulst
NICKMERCS: / nickmercs
Faide: / faide
Extesyy: / extesyy
Acie: / acie
Verhulst: / verhulst
Albralelie: / albralelie
Mande: / mande
Genburten: / genburten
Rogue - / rogue
Taxi2g - / taxi2g
Apryze - / apryze
Nokokopuffs - / nokokopuffs
Euriece - / euriece
Lululuvely - / lululuvely
Zachmazer - / zachmazer
Daltoosh - / daltoosh
NiceWigg - / nicewigg
Special Mentions:
@joebradyphoto (ALGS Thumbnails)
algs.smugmug.com

[@cameronguarascio]

Apex drama is undefeated

[@Apr48]

the funny part is hal totally supports everything raven said.

[@perfectosdesconocidos8011]

it's good, but not league drama

[@KingBLUCK]

​@@perfectosdesconocidos8011this is real

[@qwerty-gk7zu]

always feels like an issue of communication. If they're shittalking after breaking apart, it feels like nobody had the balls to actually have conversations with each other

[@zageri]

I think Hal had the largest part of guiding the narrative with the team, so once he left Evan and Reps formed a deflective opinion on reality

[@wildouter]

@@zageri this so much, not to mention they knew 2 months before lan that hal might leave if lan doesnt go well

[@juulionn5264]

The crazy part is that they still live together

[@ADcrackerjack]

@@juulionn5264only Reps and Evan.

[@luckorski1181]

Raven is not wrong at all. Imagine an athlete not showing up to practice and then saying their coach isnt the right coach for the team...

[@jamesho4517]

@@hbugofurselfplaying the game is THEIR job😂

[@TheBoss-ih1rf]

@@hbugofurself The coach isn't their parent, his job is to vod review and help them find what they need to do better, he can't instill passion into his own players

[@mynames7664]

@@hbugofurselfthis is so braindead

[@Zuni_Tv]

The coach failed to acknowledge the real reason for the players performance issues, even when he was told what they are by others.

[@voidtankage4289]

@@Zuni_Tvafter the fact but either way the coach is to coach their team not be Evan’s therapist

[@charldb972]

Funny part of this whole thing is that ppl are actually surprised. If u actually been watching the and following tsm you would clearly be able to tell, it was always there to see. Hal been hinting for a loooong time and nobody caught on.

[@andrewvetovitz6804]

hal said on stream he found out at the LAN finals from Evan... At the finals, not before.

[@charldb972]

@@andrewvetovitz6804 about what ?

[@nightmar4056]

Explain?

[@Dankybing]

You still didn't explain what's going on lol. ​@@charldb972

[@huhsaywhat]

Hal was already angry and frustrated with their performances in PL while Verhulst and Reps were more accepting of their barely above average outcomes and flip flopping their way to finals. It’s clearly a mentality problem and Raven is right about that.

[@frank10pez94]

Although I love Verhulst and I want TSM to succeed I can’t disagree with what Raven is saying. I would always see Hal playing but Evan and Jordan wouldn’t be on. Even during times where there was nothing going on Hal would stream rank and no one else would.

[@MI-fs9fm]

Evan did stream a lot, i don't know why people suddenly act like Evan never stream

[@n44ck]

Evan has probably streamed more than hal😂

[@frank10pez94]

@@MI-fs9fm bro why are u acting like you can’t just search these things up. I just searched up his hours streamed and after champs it was once of his least hours streamed since 2022.

[@rebornvirgin]

verhulst streams and makes youtube content

[@n44ck]

@@frank10pez94 but still, verhulst was still good as he usually is at champs

[@mrtacoboutit1194]

Most hilarious part is Raven drinking milk straight from the carton.

[@mate-o774]

😂

[@dantejimenez5302]

A clock work orage type thingggg

[@CountryKirby.]

That’s water in a carton lol

[@huejazz_]

I thought bro was doing a challenge or something when I first saw the clip

[@ElyciusM]

Water comes in gallon jugs as well lol

[@julianherrera3130]

Lmao snipedown w an eye roll when ppl said he's bill belichek lmao

[@Deltron-en8ut]

Reps and Evan are bored of the game and you could see it and Hal made the right choice to move on. I am surprised TSM still has them on the roster.

[@renzbay123]

nah you cant say that TSM is having good results at scrims consistent top 5

[@Iv4n321_]

@@renzbay123scrims don’t say shit 💀 don’t compared scrims to Algs days everyone plays different on ALGS day

[@renzbay123]

@@Iv4n321_ but there is still no algs days since hal left

[@fakrisfajar8762]

@@renzbay123 look again , falcons is #1 now in algs split 2 with 46 points , TSM 1 round only have 9 points

[@obeyenertrify6716]

​@@Iv4n321_exactly

[@powertrip6426]

Evan says, "Raven fell off a bit, we all fell off a bit." Raven says a 5,000 word dissertation.

[@drdrio90]

Hal left because Even

[@zachk2473]

@@drdrio90pretty sure he left because of reps. He didn’t want to kick reps out of respect so he left. Reps never plays the game outside of algs.

[@sangreal7903]

@@zachk2473 He left because of both of them. They don't have the same passion as Hal anymore. Plus Raven defended himself because he is the only one that got his name dropped. "we all fell off a bit" is just to save face after realizing what he said.

[@anthonyberrenger115]

it's his reputation on the line, and he's currently not signed to a team, so of course he's going to defend himself if he disagrees. he's also defending hal's reputation, and assuring the community that he's always been dedicated to the game

[@wildouter]

its insane, its like no one actually listened to what verhulst said he only answered a question, raven and hal have talked shit for full hours. from their responses youd think verhulst spent a whole podcast talking shit about them and the majority believe it. some ppl are including the stuff verhulst said after their responses in what started it all but it really is raven and hal that are capitalizing on the drama

[@gpauldejesus]

so all this talk about raven falling off and hal’s decision to possibly leave affecting the team’s performance at LAN but absolutely no accountability from Evan and Jordan for not playing enough? thats so disappointing, each day Hal’s decision makes more sense and if you’ve followed TSM all this time you know everything thats been said about Evan and Jordan is true and them playing more right now that Hal left is hilarious, id be pissed if i were Hal like man just compare Evan and Jordan’s passion this past year to Zero’s and Gen’s, its night and day

[@koltonread8888]

It's called burnout big dog. Comparison is the thief of joy. Of course their passions are going to be different, they're different people dealing with different things. We don't know all of what went into the historic stretch TSM had, but it would be easy to think that E and Jordan might've hit burnout. Hal made the decision that was right for him and hopefully we can see new passion for the game in Reps and Big E. I don't know why Hal should be pissed considering the incredible things they achieved and now having the opportunity to team with people who are in the same headspace he is. It's just life

[@m1lkbags]

Verhulst & Reps are very likable. The community will never blame them. Listen I love the guys but they were very clearly the problem. It looks like with the new TSM they are putting in the work again and have a lot more passion, hopefully they make it back to the top.

[@koltonread8888]

@@m1lkbags 100% 🫶🏼

[@55thstreet66]

​@@koltonread8888lmao brother imagine your job is TO PLAY THE GAME and you don't do that. Wtf are you talking about "COMPARISON" 😂. Do your job it's the bare minimum.

[@DokkanG0D]

@@55thstreet66have you never had burnout from your job?

[@RealSteeleBTW]

He heard his name and fell off in the same sentence and excluded everything else Evan said in his comment lol

[@likethatidea9899]

Because the other parts don't matter. Imagine someone says something bad about you that's not true and then sugarcoats it by saying some nice things also. What would you think..

[@anthonyberrenger115]

evan said raven fell off and lost passion, why wouldn't he defend himself? even if evan said everyone on tsm fell off towards the end, if raven was unable to do his job bc they werent even playing the game, why would he be silent and let those rumors negatively affect his reputation? raven's not even signed to a team right now, so him not addressing it means potential orgs only hear evan's opinion and assume raven isnt dedicated

[@triple6keyz497]

Raven is 100% right. Evan justified the 17th place LAN by saying “we were just being lazy” when in fact, Hal was the only one streaming everyday. Hal was right leaving them

[@renzbay123]

TSM having better results than Falcons lately

[@sopegue]

@@renzbay123 are u on drug ?

[@Uafoe]

I don't think Raven understood what Verhulst was saying. Verhulst claimed he was a great coach but admitted that he lost some passion towards the end. Raven felt what he said was disrespectful to just say but he did get complacent, offering context for why that happened doesn't mean Verhulst lied or was disrespectful lol

[@VeryBadPlayerTV]

Yea it kinda does. It's not ravens fault he got frustrated listen to what raven said. Big E literally refuses to play the game. Now they lose and big E claims he fell off later? Did he tho? Or is Big E just lazy now

[@voidtankage4289]

@@VeryBadPlayerTVexactly. Evan fell off because he was being super lazy to get good and learn new legends, learn to fight (guess who knocked 1 and got the other player one shot? It was Hal. Reps and Evan can’t kill one guy and one guy one shot.

[@mate-o774]

You don't air dirty laundry like a Netflix documentary. Some of the things he said he could've easily avoided saying, and so now there's going to be bad blood just like Jordan and Pippen.

[@ME-yl7tf]

You're missing the point. If your GF asks you. who were you with last night? And your answer is "Oh, I went out for a meal with an old friend." But you don't mention that friend is your ex. Well, you didn't lie directly. But you are lying by misrepresenting what you actually did. So when verhul says, "On the later half raven, he definitely phoned it in man," that sounds awful. But then, if you mention, oh, one of his players hid the fact he wanted to QUIT the game on the day of the biggest game. + directly lying to him about his motivations for months beforehand. All verhul needed to say was "Ravens a fantastic coach, on the later half of the cycle with the team he definitely lost motivation. Due myself lossing motivation to play the game and not be completely forthright about it. But its water under the bridge I have done the work to make amends and said goodbye on good terms." So verhul wilfully misrepresented what happened, what could have damage Ravens image. What is disrespectful.

[@VeryBadPlayerTV]

It's like you start showing up to work late every single day, don't finish the tasks your given and do a terrible job at work. but then instead of saying I just stopped caring you go "my boss was shit in the end thats why our performance was bad"

[@EliotUchiha]

He said they all fell off and Raven started leaking like a broken faucet lol

[@StrictlyStrange67]

Literally haha some things are better left "in the locker room" when it comes to the nitty gritty shit.. I just find it odd how they have the greatest season ever and then fall apart completely.. I assumed they'd at least last another full year.. seems like Hal was tired of all the pressure IGLing also

[@rebornvirgin]

raven is soft that’s why. real athletes know not to go too far most of these apex pros just kids

[@3012244]

Yeah but they all fell off cause reps and evan didn't play the game. Lol Raven can't do anything about that

[@zynosgd9982]

I remember being in my high-school basketball team. I got pretty decent but the very next year I "fell off" and my coach noticed it. He straight up came to me and asked me "do you still enjoy playing basket ball?" and I told him no. Simple as that, I had grown to hate the game (due to a couple teammates but that's beside the point). I think coaches and players in any field should be encouraged to talk more and more openly to each other.

[@unluckymerc2810]

comment section starting to look like apex reddit lmao

[@bigmanentertainment1803]

esports viewers are all redditors in heart

[@powertrip6426]

That explains why gamers have no social skills. Reddit is the worst site on earth. I avoid it like the plague.

[@anakin4529]

Verhulst said they all fell off before the raven thing lol

[@Farmdog626]

Ravin in 100% right you could see it in Verhulst gameplay in the tournament, the hole team was off

[@EMannn_]

hal said the same thing about evan about him losing his passion and now since he left he sees him more on the game and the passion being there and kinda got to him but overall he still wants see them doo good.

[@daliguj221]

I want to see what Raven can do with this SKD Mark squad. He’s a top coach, so I have expectations for them to make LAN

[@raulnorris1231]

That’s their coach now?

[@Gaming444fun99]

Hal had Evan writing sticky notes and putting them on his desktop saying dont let your life change or something like that

[@Famedv]

yea i’m ngl saying oh “he fell off” is insane and crazy disrespectful to a coach and a person in general when bro did nothing but try and help😭

[@rohitkogekar6149]

Was wondering when the mudslinging begins...Here we go.

[@peternugget6019]

Let’s do the math. Hal tells Jordan and Evan that his contract is ending and he’s moving teams if they do poorly at LAN. Raven admits to becoming complacent towards the end. In Jordan and Evan’s shoes the team morale was already low, so of course they weren’t feeling it. Anyone keeping up with recent TSM scrims knows they are putting in the work and playing almost every day. Evan is embracing his role as TSM’s new IGL and the vibes are up. Don’t count the boys out yet. I believe the passion is still there and 2/3 of that team are still reigning world champions.

[@itzdrama2350]

They are mid very mid😂

[@abdullahalanezi7407]

@@itzdrama2350literally😂 this guy is yapping and won’t accept the fact it’ll take this new TSM a long time to be very good again, provided that all of them play the game consistently and with passion

[@DevinHeida]

​@@itzdrama2350they are team solo mid after all

[@steezyhaha1163]

ngl the passion thing aint new hals teammates have had less passion then him it wasnt much of a problem for reps bcuz hes an anchor and evan had some passion always but with time he lost it too so hal going to falcons is not a bad move at all hes being selfish for the first time in his carrier prodigy and thump left him ,mac went to valorant and came back ,snipe went to halo and came back , jordan doesnt put much effort since mac left and if you have seen the dude play you would understand hes so good but he needs passion and some kovacks or aimlab not to mention he could have dropped them but he left hes always been a good friend even called out lou for making mac leave tsm

[@simonisdanilo3950]

@@itzdrama2350yeah they mid now but they are getting better once Evan or reps get the IGL stuff on point they can for sure be top 5at lan cause if u see them fighting in scrims oh boy they looking good They just need to know how to play the end zone and know when to not take bad fights and get 3rd party

[@ElyciusM]

Wow, so much to unpack here. At least you can’t really blame Hal for leaving anymore. He said he chose based on who he wanted to play with, who better than the only other guy with the same drive to play and improve as him. Also probably another reason he said he didn’t wanna play with sweet. There was a time when sweet didn’t wanna scrim to do his solo unranked to pred streams. But back on topic, raven makes a bunch of good points. You know what he is saying is true because you could literally see it. Just look at Evan’s performance last lan. That said, I know he wants to protect his brand, but Raven took it a little personally. What Evan said was a little disrespectful, yes, but he also said that everyone had lost passion. But he definitely should have worded it differently. Them all staying together was a lose/lose for everyone.

[@nubbmoney]

guess nobody listen to when he said they all fell off

[@3012244]

Big E fell off because he didn't play the game causing everyone to fall off with him. Raven can't do anything if they don't wanna play the game.

[@HiddenStr3ngth]

It's not Raven's fault if they don't play the game. He can't do anything about that. So that is not on him in any way. (no, I don't particularly like Raven) And they talked mostly about coaches and Raven. Some lip service line at the end made for optics, doesn't mean too much.

[@anthix1714]

There's no way players would say oh I don't have the passion anymore to your teammates. Especially when there's lan coming up. I personally wouldn't say it but would try my best still.

[@ByyZerox]

And that’s why you’re in the comments and not ALGS

[@ElyciusM]

I mean hisWattson said it lol

[@Dankybing]

Raven is a big sensitive baby lmfao. Verhulst said they were all fling off includong raven and raven misunderstood and then started spilling the beans about stuff going on.

[@3012244]

Big E fell off because he didn't play the game causing everyone to fall off with him. Raven can't do anything if they don't wanna play the game.

[@m0bb-_-]

But the main responsibility is on the players and not the coach. And from big E words it literally seemed like he was saying that raven was good at the beginning, but just started raging when they were doing bad. And ngl raven just explained why he acted the way he did and he wasn’t lying about reps and Jordan’s playtime going down

[@Apr48]

Hal's reaction video will shut u up lol

[@VoidBL]

Coach isn't there to make you feel better they're there to make you better.

[@moisesparedes8434]

All i know is that Hal was always always playing rankeds and even subbing in for other players in scrims while Evan and Jordan were always on vacation lol. They've been lacking confidence and showing no passion for a while. Hal was very smart leaving tsm. The pressure of carrying tsm for so long. Now he's enjoying the game again i think 🤔.

[@xMankii]

How huge is Raven's ego that the words "Towards the end I think Raven's coaching fell off, well we all fell off to be honest, so I think him and Talmadge are really close now, probably still give the edge to Raven" Raven's feelings/ego are so hurt to be compared to Talmadge rather than being told he's on some golden pedestal miles ahead of other coaches and in turn decides to air Evans dirty laundry publicly as a response, nice.....

[@javiderivia4224]

Raven is a snake but he just elaborate in what Evan said, we all Dell of raven fell off, Om but Evan forgot to say i wanst playing the game and i did not played the game, Raven is in the right here

[@mikeswift1933]

Who tf is Talmadge 😂 guy hasn’t won anything and he’s pretty close to raven.. make it make sense.

[@anthonyberrenger115]

if raven never lost dedication and was still trying his best to win, why would he let someone say he fell off? he's not even signed to an org, so his reputation matters now more than ever

[@mikeswift1933]

@@anthonyberrenger115 what do you mean by let? People can say whatever they want without you “letting” them. In the end Big E Reps and Hal were the players no way a coach should have to motivate you to play the game you’re suppose to play more than once. I can see maybe once but seemed like raven got tired of begging and Hal

[@anthonyberrenger115]

@@mikeswift1933 you read that wrong, i said raven was right to defend himself

[@iversa__274]

Hal was the only player on that team before LAN that had passion. He was playing ever scrims block and subbing in for people everyday and playing ranked if not. Even hardly ever get on and same with Jordon

[@ryanclark9386]

Players have too much power in Apex orgs should have the balls to let the coach drop people or bench their ass if you don't wanna try and practice

[@watashiwasmartphonega6601]

I don't think you guys can call Raven a crybaby. Verhulst straight up just insulted him and the worse part is he showed no accountability like he was not lacking in effort. Bro can't just say everything falls off when you don't even try or grind anymore. He is a pro.

[@voidtankage4289]

I been saying this for so long sucks my comments would get deleted. I was right the whole timez I been saying Hal plays 10 hours a day every day, reps and Evan ONLY play scrims why be with teammates that don’t play the game.

[@migz2195]

Bro I kept saying the same thing.

[@Hovss]

Imagine playing a game for 10 hours a day 🔫 I’d wanna end myself

[@simonisdanilo3950]

Well my friend zero don’t play the game either at least not rank cause every time I see him in gold like he doesn’t play rank at all only gen been grinding the game so stop blaming reps and Evan

[@yayo4099]

@@simonisdanilo3950They are playing Realms. They dont touch Ranked because its invested with cheaters

[@voidtankage4289]

@@simonisdanilo3950 zer0 still grinds the game. Plays scrims, does realm, does tdms, does r5 and does vod reviews so the game is always in his head. Evan would just clock in for scrims and clock out after scrims. Reps has been doing this for years too.

[@bonoabono33]

Sounds like a classic case of "victory has defeated you." Get complacent after having so much success.

Although I agree with Raven, he's been bad mouthing Evan for weeks... Evan did say "we all fell off". Raven fell off (from where he was), Jordan and Reps are not motivated enough.

[@kylemanlongat6516]

Holy fuck Apex has so much drama lol

[@desertdog_1440]

Not raven talking about being fit

[@ruweee4443]

If you follow TSM, you would understand why Hal left and what Raven is saying is all true. How could you expect a player that constantly trying his hardest to be on top stay on a team with players that are content at just being there. Watching their scrims last Lan is so frustrating because Hal basically has to do everything for TSM. How could you be proud of being in the best team if your IGL has to micromanage your every move because you are always lost. Good luck to TSM and hope they somehow manage to bounce back and still do good.

[@supremeyonko9923]

Reps should be getting the slack dude gets cooked in majority of fights now. I don’t think he even really plays apex at all besides scrims and comp. He used to be in the convo of the best his fall off has been wild to watch.

[@simonisdanilo3950]

Broh he is getting back now so joke is on you he been grinding lately so

[@saucegardner6467]

I suspect Raven’s comments won’t age well. Big E was used improperly. As the coach addressing that is “what am I supposed to do.” All of this talk is Raven protecting his brand plain and simple. Nobody thought Evan was being used well, and Raven at one point said it was Evan’s idea to play that style. That doesn’t sound right. Also Evan has criticized himself on multiple occasions including when he made this statement. He didn’t just say Raven fell off he said they all had lost some passion. I don’t see Evan feeling the need to address this, but on Raven’s side I understand. It is what it is. Everybody did bad together , just leave it there and call it a day. I think Big E was doing that

[@money2timez425]

This needed to be said

[@mikeswift1933]

You still think that after Hal comments 👀 big E definitely in the wrong but he got what he wanted so let’s how big E does.

[@saucegardner6467]

@@mikeswift1933 I wouldn’t say Evan is wrong at all. Hal speaks from his own perspective. And so does Evan so does Raven. I look at this from Evan’s perspective and I can actually understand the situation better. Before Eric asked him the question, we all had no idea what Evan thought about this. He has as much right to yap to his chat as old Hal does. I love knowing the reality as a fan of the team. It’s harsh, but now we all get it. I’m not mad at Evan for taking his own side or for being (too) honest. That’s still my guy, same with imperial halal. This really isn’t that serious, just Raven had a cow

[@mikeswift1933]

@@saucegardner6467 ya Evan has the right for sure just weird he kept repeating how much he didn’t like playing Hal (and winning) and how he used them for monetary gain/viewership. According to Hal, Evan decided to start yapping right after getting back from lifting with Hal. He didn’t mention or say anything bout it kinda two faced to me

[@saucegardner6467]

@@mikeswift1933 now that we see the full story arc of TSM taking 1st in pro league, I feel better about supporting Evan. But I don’t feel it makes him any more right. I’m glad to see Hal doing fine Evan doing fine too. These guys made a hell of a squad for algs

[@NoToName]

If Big E says you're a bad coach then you are a bad coach. TSM struggled with comp changes which is the coaches job to manage. They failed to adapt, starting losing more/were inconsistent when winning, and led to bad vibes. I personally didn't notice the drop off in play time for Evan. I highly doubt Hal was playing more than him tbh.

[@mclickn5481]

You can hear the pain in his voice man, u can feel the betrayal.

[@SkyzzzGaming]

I think sometimes the passion that hal has comes from already being in the winning life so to speak like when evan joined the team his life drastically changed i noticed he was obviously spending the money he earned going on holiday with his family every month and although thats okay its just the difference between hal and evan hals been in this lifestyle a while he got into it because of apex probs realised having money is boring and kept his goals on apex… evan is experiencing decent money for probs the first time in his young career

[@MahfuzSaad]

People still forget how toxic raven is. How comes he's saying there is no intensity or no energy when this is the same team which won him a championship and other trophies.

[@ElyciusM]

I see both sides, but ravens literally addresses that in this video. Did you even watch it?

[@martinsanmartin1262]

You gotta be soft asf if you think raven is being toxic

[@anthonyberrenger115]

wouldn't that make his opinion more credible? if he's seen what theyre capable of, and theyre not putting in the effort to succeed anymore, he'd be right to call out the issue and distance himself from it so he doesn't get blamed

[@emg6081]

Everything makes sense now

[@Annaindau]

I think Evan is right, as well as Raven. Evan literally included himself when he had that take on Raven. If he were scrutinized even further, he would go in depth on his form. Raven getting mad is justified but not what any team needs as well. They just needed a change so they can grow from success. Shame they couldn’t do it together

[@Apr48]

the funny part is hal totally supports everything raven said.

[@oscarwestbrook1155]

Jordan never played the game either and fly’s under the radar lol

[@javiderivia4224]

Jordan is washed now that why he dont matter Evan is way way better than Reps even prime Reps thats why nobody talks about Reps

[@insecQr]

Verhulst was addressing an issue. Raven is being emotional in justifying exactly what Verhulst was addressing. Verhulst wasn’t confessing, he was addressing. Raven wasn’t explaining, he was justifying.

[@huhsaywhat]

I mean he did say Raven fell off and lost passion without giving any examples

[@55thstreet66]

No verhulst straight up insulted him during an apex podcast to hundreds if not thousands of people live. Did you just skip over the part where Raven said it is unprofessional? No one should shit talk to each other and keep pushing forward. Leave with no regrets and continue your career. Imagine if Hal dogged on reps and verhulst as he was leaving TSM. That would be unprofessional and make Hal look like a piece of shit teammate and friend. Like Raven said show up to work. It is your job to play the game. The fact that he's their "therapist" is insane to begin with.

[@Svint5]

@@huhsaywhathe said they all Fell off

[@bleach7958]

@@55thstreet66you and Raven took it way too deep. Verhulst was asked a question and gave a quick response. He said they all fell off. He’s not going to go in detail and air it all out. I see no difference between him answering this simple question in a podcast and Raven starting a stream to explain how bad they did in LAN and why they did so bad

[@55thstreet66]

@@bleach7958 lol Raven breaks down the IN GAME gameplay. He did not mention how Verhulst wants to quit in his LAN breakdown. Horrible comparison lil bro. A coach breaking down why they did bad compared to a player throwing a coach under the bus without a proper explanation is crazy. The fact Hal agrees with Raven makes your reply that much more ignorant.

[@GyroO7]

Evan should just apologize Talking shit like that is super disrespectful Hal could have steam rolled the whole team with shittalk after LAN because of their terrible performance and firepower... But he kept it to himself out of respect.

[@dlknl14]

his attitude is always the same. he will never shit talk to his ex-teammate. that's why he defended Evan from skittlecakes' shit talk 2 yrs ago. look at what do we have now.

[@CountryKirby.]

If thats talking shit? I’m an asshole then.

[@StrictlyStrange67]

Hal already told them he was leaving tsm before LAN... they weren't gunna perform regardless.. HAL WAS TSM APEX and he dipped.. if he would've told them he was dippin before last year's ALGS do you really thing they would've won? I sure as fuck don't think so

[@marekmaly2337]

@@StrictlyStrange67 So are we just gonna ignore the fact they were ass the entire split 1? Or losing contest to Teq of all people? LAN result was inevitable because of their work ethic for several months.

[@anthonyberrenger115]

​@@CountryKirby. yeah i dont think evan was talking shit, but it does reflect poorly on raven if he's lumped in as part of the problem, so i dont blame him for trying to defend himself

[@royseeFPS]

wethepeople calling raven the Bill Belichick of Apex shows he knows nothing about football lol TSM was a winning team before he got there. The Pats were a joke before Bill. there is zero comparison there.

[@doyjuhl3421]

A good coach inspires passion, a bad coach gets frustrated when the players arent inspired by their bad coach.

[@jakethornton4856]

Tbh I don't think anyone should be trashing anyone else from the old TSM team because they all had issues that caused them not to win last time and I also understand why those players had those issues, but how much does a coach actually matter in Apex cuz they can't talk to them during the games and if they cud it wud be better for the coach to be the IGL. Like part of the reason other "sports" have coaches is because they have to call plays and come up with the strategy for each game cuz they play different opponents each game or week and I just don't see how apex coaches are anything more than someone who isn't good enough to be a pro to contribute in some way.

[@voidtankage4289]

Nah hal had 0 of the fault and the way it looks Raven had little of the fault it was all reps and Evan’s fault. Sucked at fighting had 0 damage games, couldn’t play the meta well, never played the game.

[@jakethornton4856]

@@voidtankage4289 I think Hal has some of the blame because playing with him can be taxing and make people not want to play the game as much. Hal is a genius player but other teams have way better vibes in situations where they lost more

[@voidtankage4289]

@@jakethornton4856 if they didn’t want to play with Hal they can just go somewhere else. We all know how Hal is, that’s why they won so many times. We can’t make that an excuse. Evan knew how hal is before he joined the team. This isn’t new info, Evan being lazy is new info and wanting to quit was also new info.

[@zideane1]

Man really took 'we all fell off a bit' like a direct attack. Jesus.

[@dontmessage-]

Yall not listening, raven didnt fall off, he just couldn’t do anything about evan not playing the game, so like he said what is he supposed to do? Then evan says “ we fell off” when he knows he was a big part of the problem is disrespectful to raven who tried to bring the energy back

[@okene]

Because it is. I would also defend my name, it's literally his livelihood

[@jstone0515]

Evan over Raven. Evan didn’t call you disrespectful or immature. Glad now for the separation. #TeamE

[@andrewcoleembree]

verhulst did say they all fell off lol he was just being more specific about raven because the question was literally about raven ...

[@traida111]

the won a lot of money, those guys deserved to take a little time out

[@jakejakobe8884]

Around 1:16 Evan says "I think we all fell off a little bit" ... Maybe Raven needs to hear that part again.

[@alphagibralter3569]

Raven looks like rupaul

[@Masterfuron]

Verhulst looks like Gaten Matarazzo older brother (The kid from Stranger Things)

[@TheGoldenApex]

Oh shit ur right!!!

[@Masterfuron]

@@TheGoldenApex 🤣

[@Promis_QS_Panda]

Velhurst said he fell off then said all of them did. I think he's taking this too hard. But eh.

[@sazcxieo]

9:38 im glad raven has passion to get fit last year was horrendous

[@ziggy2976]

Hal could only carry TSM for so long.

[@deceasedavocado6206]

whole time evan was probably just joshin around and this guys ego just took it there

[@jaidsalgado]

No he's not don't be purposefully stupid

[@m1lkbags]

just joshing around. "My old coach lost passion and he use to be great but now he fell off lol"

[@deceasedavocado6206]

@@jaidsalgadohe said it one time and context matters. Right after he said that evan also said they all fell off. You gotta be like 14 if you think positive player of the year saying fell off in the context he said it was disrespectful. Only a human with a fragile ego would get hurt by tht. Also evan said good things bout him. Its not like he was completely belittle his career. grow up g. At the same time neither of us know evans intentions so there is no point in either of us having this discussion

[@anthonyberrenger115]

​@@deceasedavocado6206 he might not have meant for it to be disrespectful, but it does affect raven's reputation when evan says he fell off

[@voez0798]

Hal tried so many times on stream to play ranked with them on stream, and they ditched most of the time. It makes sense why Hal and raven left the team.

[@uncagedmnc956]

Hal has said plenty of times they didn’t want to play with him because he took ranked too seriously. It was a combination of that and likely them losing motivation. Reps is the one that rarely played the least tho

[@footballfan5048]

To be frank the best solution I think is for them to do it differently. Not to spam playing rank because these will drain Evan and Reps especially we are talking about hours everyday. So what they can do is to assessing things together and making plans. Practice what's necessary.

[@voez0798]

@@footballfan5048 I think you missed the point, they didn't even had motivation to play with him. It's not about playing ranked mode, it's about playing with the team instead of just ditching completely. It's literally their job

[@NovusInc]

Verhulst shouldn't even be talking on old issues. You can see he's still not over the fact Hal left and now he has to deal with trying to become a top 5 team again. Hal did the right thing imo to not want to say anything bad towards Jordan and Evan.

[@anomaly5994]

but one question I have why Verhulst lost passion. Like there must be a reasoning for it?

[@anthonyberrenger115]

probably complacency, they were the best team for several years and not everyone can be committed to putting in long hours when theyre already on top

[@user-iq4xy4li4i]

Not a good move Raven.

[@user-bf8hv5fc5x]

They look happier... might not be better players but happier...at the end of the day, kobe was still human and had feelings... sure he'd lose passion if he was grinding and then gets called trash when a slip up happens... and you and hall butted heads??? naah only place your head was at was up hes ass mate

[@sniper8567]

If you followed TSM the way I did. You know that Raven is in the right here. Reps was hardly playing the game. And Even played less and was barely communicating and had less energy in scims. And this trend keep going for a long time. And I am 100% convinced this is the reson that Hal decided to leave. So he could play whit a team that hade similar passion for the game.

[@hotdamn9147]

Raven is 100% right. The passion has to be there to be at the top

[@sunnyd3223]

The question Evan was asked about was coach vs. coach. It wasnt talking about the teams as a whole. So while Evan and Reps not playing is the bigger reason for why they didnt do well. He was talking more about the coaching job. So, even though he did say everyone fell off. He was talking in regards to the coaches doing their job. So Evan didnt answer ot well, but to me it seems like a reach that he is pinning blame on it on Raven.

[@allansawrey8590]

Lol, raven is such a sensitive child. Big E literally says they ALL fell off. Raven then takes it the wrong way and proceeds to just vent so much shit that should be kept behind the scenes.

[@DJKjr2911]

Apex pro teams need to hire communicators, because clearly these supposed grown men don’t know how to have grown conversations. lol

[@gremwins]

All I'm saying is I'm sure Raven was getting paid good money. And when you make that much as a coach it's your job to make sure your team is practicing and it's your job to make sure your team has the best plays. The first scrims I saw of Hal with Darkzero they were teaching him better spots to play, and why, on certain zones.

[@faedrenn]

He just explained he wasnt headcoach so no authority to discipline them if needed

[@gremwins]

@faedrenn he said that Evan didn't play the game enough, supposedly right(which i think is bs)? So why not schedule them to play ranked before scrims? Furia Jxmo did this when hiswattson first joined. So it's possible

[@faedrenn]

@@gremwins a sched or target weekly hours wouldve been good but at TSMs level of play these things should almost be secondary if necessary at all. The passion wasnt there or was atleast hindered heavily

[@aaronliu4136]

Hal did mention that Reps and Evan had stuff going on in personal life before LAN, and the team didn't have enough practice to solve their lack of teamfighting skill. This is just a respectful way of saying "" My teammates do not play the game enough." And a couch does not specialize in motivating the team, sure he should be able to do it to a certain degree, but couches are not therapists. They don't have a psychology degree. If players have mental issues they need to go to professional therapists, like Faker has mentioned talking to his therapist several times. But Evan doesn't go to one when he clearly needs to.

[@kickapillow]

What if Reps and Evan started smoking weed that would be hilarious

[@Double_AV]

What the fuck kind of comment is this lmao, you're prescribing therapy to someone based off 15 mins of Raven rambling???

[@Klutzy86]

Verhulst was not flaming raven, he said all of them loss passion, he was just conparing Talmadge and Raven, he said he was a god tier coach

[@3012244]

Yet he's the one that lost passion and didn't play the game. Of course that's going to cause the others to be frustrated and bring down the team

[@blackandwhitecrypto437]

First off the players are always the most accountable in reality. This goes in all sports for the main reason there actually competing. Now with that said the COACH is literally there for 2 reasons when You simplify down to winning and losing. Either going to be the scape goat or crowned a leader of men. Thats the role of the coach under just that. Ofc i believe Raven tried his best being the TSM coach and i also believe most everything he just said. He didnt need to take down Verhulst because all he was doing was giving the coach his credit for losing. Verhulst is a beast apex player and objectivley Raven you just help him . They didnt win = your the scapegoat. Its your job. Stop crying

[@Spectrasweapon1]

One thing people dont understand is that a players bad performance that comes from no passion and lack of practice also damages reputation of the team coach. I totally understand what Raven is saying and Im 100% with him.

[@Spectrasweapon1]

And for someone who has been following TSM could clearly see that Evan and Jordan lost passion, specially Jordan who literally almost never played outside of scrims. Where were all TDM practices before Hal left? Specially since 3v3 issue has been a heavy topic. Putting the pieces aint hard in this subject.

[@papapotatopie]

Genuinely confused as to how Evan saying Raven "fell off" and elaborating about how raven would yell at them instead of trying to fix problems turns into Raven like a little kid saying "yeah, well Evan wanted to quit or take a break! See I didn't fall off, its Evans fault" in what world is that a proper rebuttal to this situation.

[@MStach42]

This is not drama. This is just everyone’s feelings coming to light. Evan and Hal have a difference in personalities. Hal’s demanding nature made Evan not want to play the game anymore. This is just the outcome of that and now we’re getting an explanation of why the change happened. Love all you guys.

[@ShSmith]

did he not say "I think we all fell off a bit"?

[@chillNinjaLowSkill]

oof no wonder hal dropped them… clearly hal was the most competitive passionate and motivated player on that whole team including their coach but they were dragging him down with them… I hope Falcon will reignite the CEO, i mean Gen Zero and Hal sound and so far look like a complete kill machine, i’ll wish them luck and hope they’ll bond into next best apex team

[@Kraybehr]

mamba mentality is what they need

[@cuzzohh2768]

Evan literally did say they all fell off......

[@jacobhaws9458]

He did say they all fell off though

[@MiguelJackson22]

Obviously Evan lost desire to succeed. He would hop on for scrims then hop right off. Now that Hal left, he’s streaming for 8-9 hrs multiple times week. While playing with Hal, that would rarely ever happen.

[@gibbyclitso8388]

No pushups is weird-looking, it looks low key

[@jayscott9871]

Evan can’t say the old coach was better than the new coach..

[@okene]

Yes, that's why he should be diplomatic and give the PR answer of saying only positive things and saying verbose nothings. The whole point is to avoid shit like this, although in this case i suppose there aren't much consequences

[@jayscott9871]

@@okene def poor wording but gamers being diplomatic??? We know better

[@AManWhoNoticesThings]

This Raven Guy lost it. He's just rambling. He's leaking like a faucet. Drip. Drip. Drip.

[@ZachAsaD]

Evan should have learned to deal with Hal better

[@florianphilips1786]

The disrespect to raven is crazy

[@Apr48]

​@@tyger7924 the funny part is hal totally supports everything raven said.

[@begonethot9338]

@@Apr48 It's not funny when it's true? how the fuck does people can't understand that if you're a player that lost passion then fucking leave the team? but nah what you do is saying your coach fell off and WE all fell off, who the fuck is we homie you were the one that doesn't play the fucking game that you get paid to play, imagine having a job where you play a videogame and grind it and say nah im losing passion, THEN GET THE FUCK OUT XDD????

[@RuMaow]

This is exactly how it looks like when you put a bunch of kids under 25 yrs old together in the same working environment.

[@teamwonder9229]

Why is TSM Always around 30pts in scrims then ? Bro as a TSM fan i still watch Hal but its less funnier with Zero and Gen i would love to watch more or Evan and Jordan but their gameplay is so hard to watch its insane

[@kcohBets]

Still can't take the imposter Snipedown serious after he stole the OG snipedown name from final boss snipedown

[@Druidtwink]

Raven hard misquoted Evan

[@Burnout8_live]

I don't think Evan meant to be rude in that situation.

[@colinsmith3164]

Dude you all have to imagine, playing with hal was some of the most toxic vibes ever. He stripped the passion right out from under them. Who wants to play with someone who shits down their throats non stop. If someone called me braindead dumb shit every single game id hop off too.

[@mylifeisamaze]

Tbh i think Pep put Evan in awkward position by asking him to compare the 2 coaches. Evan tried to answer the it while not upset anyone and ended up saying what he should not have. Evan is young and this is a mistake he can learn from, he should've just avoid the question.