Raya's Queerbaiting of Southeast Asians - The Importance of Cultural Context to Queerness

Subs available, click CC to turn on!
French Subs available as well, done by Lune_Lys
Xiran Introduction 0:00:00-0:01:36
Is Raya Queer Representation? 0:01:37-0:08:42
SEA Masculinity 0:08:43-0:16:51
SEA Queer expression & History 0:16:52-0:22:32
Queer SEA today: Vietnam 0:22:33-0:32:26
Queer SEA today: Indonesia 0:32:27-0:37:33
Queer SEA today: Singapore 0:37:34-0:48:02
Queer SEA today: What You Should Know 0:48:03-0:50:58
Who is Raya's Queer Coding for? 0:50:59-1:02:04
How could Raya implement SEA queer culture? 1:02:05-1:13:04
Support Queer SEA creatives and organizations 1:13:05-1:14-24
Part 1 of overall project: • How Disney Commodifies...
Part 2: • How Disney Commodifies...
Slides by Jes & Cin Wibowo, Lune, and anonymous Singaporean based on contributions from whole Discord server
Title slide by Tran
Presented by Jes & Cin Wibowo and Lune
Transcripts by Tran, Mars S, Jes & Cin Wibowo
Subtitles by Audris/Serat and Lune
Thumbnail by Tran and Jes & Cin Wibowo
Folder with presentation slides of whole project: drive.google.com/drive/folder...
Research Notes: docs.google.com/document/d/19...
Charities & Organizations to Support:
docs.google.com/document/d/1T...

[@amphibiansriseup596]

Encanto turned out to be a pop culture phenomenon while Raya was forgotten, beaten down, and torn to shreds. Which sucks because this could’ve been up there with Lilo & Stitch, Beauty and the Beast, or Wreck it Ralph, but between crunch, poor choices, and the movie being too short, it ended up in a downfall. SEA representation is already rare in western media, but the fact that it is one of the few glimpses (albeit one-dimensional) of it from a studio like Disney, only for it to fail, really hurts to see. If there was more runtime or the message of the movie wasn’t as stupid and harmful as it is, maybe it would not be that bad.

[@darkartsninja]

After reading & watching several Raya reviews, I really think it would have been more successful as a TV series than as a movie. Because the creators did such an extraordinary job making an extremely fleshed-out world/setting. Which tragically could not be explored more due to the restrictions of a movie run-time

[@unlimon6382]

Encanto has good music (not so much singing) thanks to Lin Manuel Miranda, composer of Hamilton; it focuses on just one country and it does so visibly and accordingly; it doesn't fail its message, and it focuses on just one language that is actually one if the mist widespread languages, with communities that, even if somehow they hate each other, by sharing certain vibes and attitude in their cultures they feel sort of touched too. Not to mention every Spanish speaker thrives on thrashing ppl from the USA when they start saying "bet its tu guait". I am Spanish, not even Latin American, and I had a lot if fun watching it and seeing hispanic names, words and mannerisms on screen. But what does Raya have of that aside from aesthetics? Surely not the music, just an occasional cameo of a word out of a language they never tell you about, and most of the team isn't even from the region represented. In encanto representation was done very good. They even stood aside from the stereotype that all Latin Americans are dark by putting in pale characters. As a hispanic person and Spanish speaker, it honestly is not the best film, but it does really good at what is supposed to, give you the hispanic vibes

[@jonathanbowers8964]

I will never forgive Raya for taking away Lindsay Ellis from social media.

[@ninavale.]

This is the reason, I think this would perhaps work better as TV series. a movie, esp General Audiences/Family/Kids movie can only be so long. I think the reason why stories like Beauty and the Beast or Lilo and Stich WORK as movies is bc when you look at them they're simple, there isn't too much history/lore to them. They take place in one, maybe two locations and show us only certain number of characters, and never try to build them up to more than they are shown to be. Lilo and Stich takes place in a Hawaii town, and follows two sisters and a small alien and it's about family. Beauty and the Beast is about looking past appearances and learning to love another, and mainly takes place in Beast's caslte with few scenes in a small town, mostly to establish some things or to push some plot forward. The backstories are simple too. Beast doesn't need anymore than "he was a vain asshole, and got punished for it". Characters are rather simple too. I mean Gaston doesn't need more than "he's a popular jerk"(I mean disney did try to give him backstory and do the more complex thing in LA movie, but it didn't work out). The staff at the castle are just a flirty french footman, a pompous butler, a kind housekeeper and excitnble kid. They don't need anything more either. If you have so much story and worldbuilding and characters and a story that is a bit more on High Fantasy Epic side, then TV series has better format for it. and true, LOTR is High Fantasy and takes place in several different locations but a) it's a trilogy so more than one movie and b) target audience is different. It's not a movie aimed at kids, so the running time is longer and allows for more to be showed. Raya IMO just had too many ideas and a too little time and wrong format. and ofc the undercooked message. which I think TV series, and having more time and focus could help as well. I don't blame the writers so much as I blame the corporate execs who made the decision to make it into a movie...

[@ishathakor]

honestly i think raya should've gone the same route as encanto and just picked ONE country (and ideally a specific region of the country) as its setting. encanto's world would've been a mess if they tried to make it the South American Movie like they did with raya. even if raya didn't just want to pick one country, they should have at least picked one each for each of the five kingdoms instead of making every kingdom a mishmash of a bunch of real world cultures. atla did a mishmash too, but they kind of seemed to actually know what they were doing because it doesn't seem like they put everything into a blender like raya did. plus, if they actually wanted to develop that story, i think it would have worked better as a limited series on disney+, something like wandavision or something with 5-6 hours of runtime and smaller segments. and then they're giving themselves the time to actually develop the relationships between the characters and the themes. the only thing i was feeling throughout most of the third act was just anger at the idea that raya should be the one to forgive namaari even though namaari has done absolutely nothing to gain her trust so far in the story. i've seen another commenters mention catra and adora from she-ra and even though i don't personally love that ship, i think it's a good example of friends to enemies to lovers because catra actually has to win adora's trust back after losing it. namaari just gets handed raya's trust on a platter because like, the 10th time is the charm? it kind of feels like the writers were either incompetent or sabotaged the project on purpose

[@AccentedCinema]

I have a few friends who are LGBT+ filmmakers. As with most filmmakers, their scripts are often genre films (mostly comedy) with self-insert characters, which means their stories feature queer characters. However, in the process of getting their film funded, investors and distributors almost always tell them to "tone down the gayness" to broaden the film's appeal. Queer-baiting reinforces the bigoted notion that "you are free be queer, as long as I don't see you being queer". However, it is sadly also a really accurate reflection of reality.

[@lifesymbiont5769]

I'm sorry for your friends, creatives in general deserve better

[@randompromises1038]

i'll say it once and i'll say it time and time again - censorship kills art. you can't expect someone to be able to express themselves creatively if the medium actively suppresses them from doing so just to make bigots happier.

[@grayonthewater]

Love your channel!

[@hanbyeol_in_flandres]

Yeah I heard the same story for game dev friends, it's frustrating...

[@reveirg9]

It's simple, because often times when I watch a film or play a game that has a clear political agenda or ideology behind it, it often ruins the storyline just to pander to the LGBTQ community. A good example would be The Last of Us. The first had such great character development, the story was pretty simple and straightforward, game play was decent not ground breaking, what engaged most of the players was the interaction and character development between the 2 main characters. However, in The Last of Us 2, suddenly there's asians everywhere, bi, gay, lesbian, trans. Every character was either a LGBTQ or a minority. It took away from the immersion of the story, why's a zombie game about 2 broken souls finding solace in each other's company suddenly filled with every single person of the spectrum? Of course, it had to be released in pride month and people that complaint about it were labeled 'transphobia' or 'homophobia'. I remember they even made a pregnant woman go on zombie patrol because it's 'empowering'. Shit like that is why stories should never be inclusive for the sake of being inclusive.

[@thefrogagenda5148]

I’m Asian and was the first person to come out in my white friend group. I was so happy because i thought the online community of queer people was my community. A year later, my white friend came out. She was the one who was “the gay friend” who people would go to for Lgbtq issues. We are both femme, as well. That was when i realised they had never referred to my queerness. I was always “the Asian friend” to them. My style (very similar to my white friend) isn’t “gay femme” it’s “anime girl” when i wear it. Despite me stating I’m lesbian, they would always say “I can picture you with a quiet Korean guy”. This is the same with an Asian classmate who is gender-fluid but no one ever uses their other pronouns, however they always respect other genderqueer white people’s pronouns. This is when i started distancing myself from the lgbtq community and gravitating towards the Asian community. Let people of colour be queer.

[@mykodibear17]

I've always felt disconnected from the LGBT community despite being queer myself and never knew why. This video, and everyones comments on it, opened my eyes so much to problems that always made me uncomfortable in a way that I never knew how to express. It seems like if you don't fit in the perfect little box then your identity is constantly questioned by people within the very community claiming to be so open and accepting, and it's heartbreaking to hear that the problem is more widespread and complex than I realized. I'm sorry to hear that you've experienced this exclusion yourself. I hope you know that however you identify is valid and that you're worth more than how others choose to see you.

[@cokesodaa]

I'm really sorry about that I hope that you found/find better friends or that they started to respect you. I hate how the LGBTQ+ community is dominated by white people, it feels like us POC aren't even apart of the community. They get mad at things we do to represent ourselves when they're the ones who are accepted more. For example: Theres a lesbian flag made for specifcially South Asian + Black people and they got pissed at that because we're "trying to divide the community" as if our own community doesn't act like we're apart of it, it's really sad and people fail to realize it :( And again, im really sorry about your "friends".

[@timothymclean]

What?!? People can be different from "the default" in more than one way? Inconceivable!

[@Oqhixiism]

You need some new friends right now. That's so weird that people can't respect you. The lgbtq lacks representation of black people and poc and this really just proves it.

[@rayanefigueiredo6169]

asia is a continent not people

[@adabronikova2949]

A little analogy: As a kid you met this other kid who had similar interests as you and you hung out for a couple hours. Then you told them a secret, hoping it will make you make friends, but they go off and tell everyone about that secret. Then a couple of years later you meet that person in school. Would you act like you knew each other for years? Would you be a little flirty? I'm guessing no. I don't really see a relationship there.

[@kordeliiius9821]

Me neither 😔

[@ianesgrecia8568]

The whole point of trust and believe in others of this movie is badly written.

[@masterjennifer4549]

No I would fckn hate that person and avoid them

[@randompromises1038]

i feel like this issue would be solved if namaari didn't intentionally betray raya. like she originally planned to follow through with it, but realized she and raya had a lot more in common than she thought, and it made it harder to want to go through with the plan even after raya (kind of stupidly) handed it to her on a silver platter. maybe one of fang's people followed and tried stealing it and raya makes the assumption that namaari led them to the heart on purpose and loses all trust in her. the concept of trust that the movie incessantly hammers in kinda would've made more sense by this point, but honestly i just genuinely hate namaari's character. she's not written well at all.

[@ragingchaosgod]

Is it queerbaiting or is it people with their shipping goggles on too tight? We may never know.

[@jays.4969]

I think the reason Raya felt so hollow representation-wise and movies like Encanto have flourished is because Encanto is a deeply Latine story (use of magical realism, intergenerational household, confrontation of generational trauma and expectations that come with being a child of immigrants, food as a force for healing, AN ENTIRE SONG IN SPANISH) that genuinely wants more people to know about the beauty and magic of Columbian culture. Even Kung Fu Panda, though made by white people, took care to integrate the philosophies of Chinese culture into the story and create authenticity that would give western audiences a window into a culture they may not have been exposed to. Raya doesn’t love SEA culture, and it shows by them not even dedicating themselves to a particular culture. Disney has enough money and resources to uplift the stories of marginalized people instead of just using their cultures for aesthetic, but they choose the latter because it’s easier and more profitable.

[@nellrose4699]

Encanto had no plot line so many underdeveloped characters and is totally shit

[@whatever5401]

@@nellrose4699 lol what a joke

[@hexonyou]

@@whatever5401 right? obvious troll didn't get fed lol

[@NathasyaStellaHermanus]

@@nellrose4699 While you're somewhat true by saying that there are many underdeveloped character, I still think the movie has a great storyline.

[@theuncannydag]

This marks 5.25 hours of discussion on Raya. Xiran, you & your homies are a force to be reckoned with

[@ImaNerdANDaGeek]

They spent more than double the film's runtime scrutinizing it.

[@origamipein18]

Yup. 😄

[@gingersummer4005]

What else can we expect from a bunch of literal icons

[@KayLoo202]

They spent more time analyzing this movie than I thought about it in the month following my own viewing of it

[@annepixiebettinger3593]

At this point, I want to see them all band together and remake the whole movie. If Disney doesn't want that we can just fight them or something. I may not be asian, let alone southeast asian but I would back that fight; I LOVE learning so much about these cultures and I would love to see them properly represented in a movie.

[@arcie3716]

"The idea that their ancestors would have welcomed them with open arms even though people today look down on them, it's a complicated and indescribably unique kind of joy."

[@whatever5401]

Probably one of the best quotes I've ever seen

[@rizkyadiyanto7922]

their ancestor would be harsher to them as there is no strong "rule of law" like modern time.

[@anchitbaishya]

Let's be real guys Disney will never ever have the courage to create LGBT characters. Mitchell's vs The Machines does a much better job at LGBT Representation. The whole plot of Raya revolved around Raya and Namaari's relationship and yet these characters are never fully fleshed out. Anyways BIG shoutout to Xiran and their team for all their efforts and hard work. Definitely learnt much more about SEA cultures than Raya and the Last Dragon. And that costume is 🤩🤩🤩✨✨✨✨✨

[@panwp123]

The Owl Hose show on disney channel has explicit LGBT characters. But yeah, we will never have Queer people in major movies.

[@teaz3139]

@@panwp123 yeah, and that probably contributed to its cancellation, sadly

[@anchitbaishya]

@Luis Suazo IDK if that was intentional but I think Disney didn't actually meant for Shang to be Bisexual since it was kids movie , but it turned out to be nonetheless

[@liriodendronlasianthus]

Agreed. It does seem like a lot of movies/shows just hide a little representation right at the end of the movie or the series, it's a little frustrating for me. I'm not asking for a queer couple's queerness to be the main focus though, like in Mitchell, it's a hey so-and-so is gay. I bring up Legend of Korra a lot. We see a whole lot of Mako's dating life, even Bolin's, but Korra and Asami just get the ending. I really REALLY wished we knew more about their letters to each other! I also noticed that cartoons tend to be scared of queer men? There's been an amazing amount of wlw or femme queers represented the last several years in cartoons compared to mlm or masc queers.

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

Uuuuh, Mitchel vs the Mashines slightly implies it but its still not enough. In She-Ra the main ship is Gay and neither character is written as the gay best friend (Looking at you, Kipo. Bensons relationship was like sooo undercooked)

[@dylan4142]

I'd like to add that in Singapore, trans students can't be called their chose name even if the teachers want to. They supposedly can only use your government name, yet they can use nicknames for cis students as they please, or chosen names (eg. calling a student Rachel when their legal name is Xiao Ling)

[@AntediluvianRomance]

How does that even work?

[@caldw615]

How is this enforced exactly?

[@calamitysangfroid2407]

@@caldw615 relying on snitches e.g. a transphobic parent reporting them

[@Gonzas97]

Can people legally change the name? Also nicknames are not the same thing.

[@timothymclean]

@@Gonzas97 Of course they're not. Nicknames are something "normal" kids can have, because they're not going to use them to exploit a loophole to be treated as a gender that isn't on their birth certificate.

[@everlastingdragon4520]

Raya and Namaari's "dep la" lines were them being childish little sh*ts by using "screaming slipper" as an insult. YOU CANNOT CHANGE MY MIND ABOUT THAT.

[@cya4388]

i accept this headcanon

[@poopiheadinc.3851]

JDMDNDNJEJE GOLD

[@leandraferesthogar7249]

Judging by the memes in the previous video, everyone agrees

[@angelitabecerra]

Sounds like what an abulita would say. Forever throwing slippers/flip-flops/sandals etc from the next room

[@morganqorishchi8181]

My Central Asian self was not expecting to feel so seen and recognized here but the conversation about how Asians aren't viewed as queer by white people, how white queercoding is the default and how erased we are in representation as well as the hostility and alienation we face in white queer spaces had me nodding and feeling relieved throughout this video. It's kind of nice to know there are other people dealing with these issues and that we are all, collectively, very tired of all this. White people throwing an undercut and a nickname into a movie so tumblr will give the gif sets some reblogs is not the same as actual representation in any way.

[@nitrofairywing1541]

It's always some bullshit that undermines people of color, and everything about us, I say this as a black person, even in LGBTQ+ spaces, it's like white always somehow someway finds to be the standard representation, and that's some crap that's been pushed and made reality for far too long

[@kordeliiius9821]

As a white queer person it’s kind of shocking to hear about all this :’/ you’d think that we as a community would do ANYTHING but create a default to uphold, but unfortunately it exists

[@kordeliiius9821]

And while it’s true that different sub-communities have stereotypes that they joke about or even identify with, making them the standard is a terrible idea

[@joeschmo4646]

You say not to shame people for having accents and then…. you shame people for having accents. Well done.

[@morganqorishchi8181]

@@joeschmo4646 Who is this comment directed to? Neither I nor anyone else in this thread mentioned accents at all. Did you mean to reply to someone else?

[@XiranJayZhao]

Edit: All right, I have HAD IT. Jes n Cin's voice is similar to mine but they are NOT me, I am NOT the one speaking during the presentation itself. I did the intro and then passed it off to them. Listen to 0:01:37 again if any of you are still confused. Also here are some links to resources - Folder with presentation slides of whole project: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1tDJ9rwRbs_VRsKmgp6Ubnewn0j0RA3Rt Research Notes: docs.google.com/document/d/19thZ4N0KxVyGQjZthyksbjIrBJgwbSXB0ksw-SNZwyY/edit?usp=sharing Southeast Asian Charities & Organizations to Support: docs.google.com/document/d/1TOP96Jofr9GRHPdk7ZSHNlwpX_HVe9tDTcciJREGbD4/edit?usp=sharing

[@just_that_girl3873]

Thanks for listening to people’s concerns and fixing it quickly!

[@brutus3631]

@@ManiyaVinas what? I'm sorry but some lesbian flags were changed because of actually important issues, the purple flag was taken over by transphobes, and the pink flag was created by a man afaik, the current, orange one, has been created by a lesbian, so what is the issue?

[@ArukiTsukaru]

@@brutus3631 What did they say?

[@AmySoyka]

🙏Link to Lunar Boy?

[@Indie-pendentUser]

@@ArukiTsukaru They said something along the lines of "it's funny how when women create something it doesn't even last a decade, while when men invent things, those are remembered for centuries or even millennia, no matter how bigoted or otherwise it was". I suppose they regained just enough common sense to realise how incredulously asinine on sooo many levels what they wrote truly was and to delete it out of embarrassment.

[@libulan8179]

As a queer SEAn (Filipino) living in SEA, I don't even know a lot about our pre-colonial history, and even less about our neighbors. So thank you Xiran and your amazing team for creating this. Also, I loved learning about how there were (and are) queer spiritual mediums/leaders in other pre-colonial SEAn countries too. I've read in our history readings before about the "Bayoguins" here in the Philippines who were queer spiritual leaders and mediums too but there were no further information, so I'd like to imagine that they had similarities with what was discussed. Another one also, in the same readings, "masculinity" was also very different. The "Datu" or the chief were described as the most beautiful among the men of the tribe, as they're also having the most beautiful long hair meticulously taken care of with oils.

[@freemelons1706]

queer Indonesian here, oh boy you don't know how much me and bunch of my SEA friends latch ON into this ship. and how much we've all desperately try to rewrite the story and attempt our best to make this ship not as toxic as it is, because admittedly, yea, everyone (in my friend group at least) realizes how toxic this ship is. it's like catradora if catra just continues being an ass and not learn from her mistakes. I think if anything it kinda shows how desperate we are for both queer and SEA representation, and it's kinda sad. we don't get those often, and the only somewhat queer reading SEA Disney princess we get turns out to be horrible with further reading. like, the more I watch this movie, the more I kinda despise it despite thinking it was an ok movie at first. really goes to show Disney's aggressive SEA marketing

[@haileyburningham1586]

Do you have any good fanfics of rewrites to recommend?

[@BabyGirlTiny]

Imagine thinking Catrafora wasn’t rushed and forced and still isn’t toxic. But then again, y’all do be holding onto crumbs

[@det.bullock4461]

@@BabyGirlTiny It's an intentionally messed-up relationship like Batman and Catwoman (except they weren't kept out of a relationship by stupid comic book editorial decisions), also those two were clearly coded as attracted to each other since the beginning (yes, I have not brought up Batman and Catwoman randomly, that early episode had so many "Bruce Wayne meets Selina Kyle at a high society event" vibes that even my cishet ass picked up on it), and it takes literally four seasons of trauma and an entire season of trying to atone for Catra for the mutual attraction to be acted upon. "Rushed" my ass, had it been yet another heterosexual relationship nobody would have batted an eye.

[@mykodibear17]

@@det.bullock4461 You say it took four seasons to redeem her, but she was still diving hard into those toxic behaviors by season 4. I mean, she did try to literally end the entire world in no small part to spite Adora. It's not like she spent the whole time trying to be better, so by the time she did suddenly start it felt rushed, at least to me and apparently a lot of people. While I have no doubt that some people hated on the show because of the LGBT+ relationships, personally I think if they'd had more time it would've been more believable. The last season really felt like 2 seasons squeezed into one. I could see the beginnings of Catra's redemption, but how quickly it happened? How she just basically flipped a switch with no slides back into old habits and everyone forgave her very quickly like she hadn't tried to kill them all multiple times? It just felt unrealistic to me, like she needed more time to develop before she could handle herself much less a romantic relationship. As you said it's far from a unique problem. Shera isn't the only show that I've complained about this with, and it's far from the worst offender. I just felt like they spent 4 seasons trying to convince me she was irredeemable and only one trying to convince me she was willing to be better. I really needed that 6th season to showcase her growth and really make her shine in a way that, I personally felt, she just didn't get the chance to.

[@det.bullock4461]

@@mykodibear17 Season 4 was about showing us that Catra didn't want to be evil but she kept at it because that's all she knew, not about seeing her as irredeemable in fact doing evil things leaves her utterly broken by the end of the season and has multiple breakdowns. Also the head of the good guys is literally undergoing a similar personal issues-fueled power trip during the same season, and I think Glimmer not being able to relate to Catra to an extent and be able to forgive her would make her a hypocrite. She also *does* fall back to old habits several times during the last season, like when she isolates herself on the ship or she's so convinced Entrapta hates her that she doesn't want the chip removed. Her issue wasn't being evil (which was more a consequence), but her deep-seated conviction that she was worthless and could only survive by bullying others because that's how she was trained by Shadow Weaver (while Adora, who was the "favourite" instead expresses her lack of self-worth by trying very hard to be the brave little soldier). Adora coming back for her and later sticking with her put a dent in her main motivation for doing evil things, she still retains an edge (not unlike IDW Megatron) but the main motivation for her old habits has been weakened enough for her to find a new balance.

[@dangreen3868]

as a jewish queer person, it's facinating to hear about sea queerness, and yes yes yes to the talk or the erasure of nonwestern queerness!! I have incredibly strong feelings about different cultural clothing that is never talked about. for example, yamakas! they're very drenched in gendered connotations, and I've had a complicated relationship with them since I was a little kid, as a nonbinary person. I've worn them with buzzing excitement only to be shot down, I've been offered them and not worn them, I have many feelings about them. but if I wore a yamaka in america where I live, it likely would not be recognized as masculine.

[@petiteange08]

Interesting insight! I only recognize a yamaka as masculine because I used to live next to a Jewish neighbourhood, with a synagogue one street away and a school in front of our apartment. However, I would admit that I never thought about it in the context of queerness (I'm a generally clueless person). This brings a whole new perspective to that one girl that wore a yamaka. At the time, I was just like: "I thought only boys wear them? But it's cute on her too. Anyway, moving on..."

[@intergalactic-oboist]

@@petiteange08 I mean, at my synagogue, kippot are mandatory for boys and optional for girls, so it’s more gender neutral. But in some contexts it could definitely represent masculinity. (Yarmulke is the Yiddish word for kippah, for context). Also, Jewish men have a history of being seen as less masculine than goyiche white men because of differences in Jewish masculinity(see “nice Jewish boy” trope) and Jewish girls being seen as bratty for not necesssarily being as submissive as white western women(see “jewish American princess” trope)

[@dotdotdotdotdotdotdottod]

Queerness is different in different countries and cultures and that's something (mostly American) western lgbtq dosent understand and tries to help in ways that don't understand our culture that links our queers identitys

[@TheDriedfrogpills]

As an American who doesn't have a connection to the Jewish community, I've always associated yamakas on adults with men/masculine identifying? .... am I not supposed to? Going to research

[@dangreen3868]

@@TheDriedfrogpills nop, that's right! that's what I mean, that that display of masculinity is a uniquely jewish one

[@KirstenMarie_MS3]

Just a little advice for anyone that speaks English as a second or third language: stop apologizing for not having perfect fluency. Don't let anyone put you down because you make mistakes in writing or speaking, especially if they're American. You're already light years ahead many people who can't even speak their native language properly.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

I wouldn't go that far. They shouldn't feel bad, but they shouldn't really try getting a big head comparing themselves to native English speakers.

[@manzanito3652]

Joke: Apologize for possible mistakes. Woke: Commit as many mistakes as you can (even on purpuse) and never apologize.

[@Gonzas97]

We apologize in case our comments wasn't clear enough. Not because we would offend someone. We don't care about offending people. -an argentinian

[@pisces2569]

Why especially if they’re American? Why does someone’s nationality matter at all? Sounds a bit bigoted

[@presentexchange5108]

⁠@@pisces2569Because most Americans, including my self unfortunately, are monolingual.

[@catloaff]

Incredible covering of Indonesian LGBTQ+ community. The rise of religious conservatism and heavy censorship by the ministry by late 00s/early 2010s supressed media made or about LGBTQ+ people. As you said, Indonesian's traditional culture is not gender-restricted or binary, yet politicians and religious conservatives always claim that LGBTQ+ is an evil entity from the West that will ruin the country. This fearmongering sadly works, especially to older people. Exorcism, or in local terms, Rukiah, is still a common practice to "heal gay people from their gayness", their belief is that gay people are possessed by demons of their opposite sex, hence why they are attracted to the same sex (none of this is in Qur'an). Lots of parents brought their children to this facility once they either came out or was outed by someone else. Another thing worth mentioning is RUU PKS, a law for protecting sexual abuse victims that is still waiting for approval after like, 4 years at this point? Very few parties wanted the law to be approved as is, a good chunk of them wanted it to be changed (and by changed I meant watered down and be filled with loopholes), but one particular conservative party completely rejected it, claimed that this will make the evil LGBTQ+ accepted in Indonesia and all men will be falsely accused of rape because this law is too vague about its definition of rape (literally just asking for consent before sex). Glad that younger people are more accepting but as long as these homophobic boomers are in power we still have a lot to go :') Recently, a beloved trans figure in the country, Dorce Gamalama also passed away. She was an incredible entertainer and a loving trans muslim woman who pushed the boundary of gender normativity in the country, especially in the media. When she announced her transition, she was denounced by many conservatives but she kept her spirit and still became an iconic Indonesian public figure. Incredibly disheartening to hear that she was buried in a male religious custom, despite that she wished to be buried as a woman, she already went through gender surgery, and she was listed as a woman in her civil documents. As a muslim, I think it's such a disrespectful act and the ustadz's reasoning for her burial is not based on syariah law or "protecting her against Allah's wrath", but society's disdain towards trans people. Regardless, may Dorce rest in peace.

[@urlocalbedhead]

Iya anjir what they did to Dorce is fucking unforgivable. They should've respected her wishes but they can't even do the bare minimum Gara2 orang tua disini LGBTQIA stuff is gonna take a long road to be accepted, I really wish they were more open :']

[@emeraldmoth3977]

Proof that history doesnt always progress

[@asdfghjklasdfghjkl321]

It doesn't matter if something isn't literally in the Quran or Bible or whatever, religious people will use anything they can to fuel their hatred using the text as the "word of god" when literally it's not. And until religious people can separate religious texts from religion, not everything but a lot of it is rubbish, then homophobia and transphobia will continue

[@badutitem4975]

i agree deeply on ur point and what u said. people's treatment on queer ppl here is just straight up harrassment, not to mention the r4pe culture that has been going on for so long. as a queer gender non confirming Indonesian muslim, it honestly can be so tiring and confusing to be all of the above when all the communities ur in don't seem to accept u fully and often quarrel with each other

[@canned_can_chan4590]

Even when we're just asking for basic human rights, they will argue by saying we should've conformed to the religious norms in the country. The last time i checked we should have basic human rights by just being born human but i guess that wasnt good enough for them. Also i wanna add that there has been protests against the RUU PKS, stating that because it would protect everyone regardless of gender and sexuality, it would encourage people to become queer which is not true at all. They have also stated that since consentual sex is not prohibited by the RUU PKS, it would encourage premarital sex. Like wtf? Its a law for protection against sexual assault! Anything other than that shouldnt be in it

[@MarcyStevonshy]

This was an incredible presentation! One part the interested me the most was the section about Đạo Mẫu. It sounds kind of similar to traditional māhū in Hawaiian culture, who were third-gender people (typically AMAB) who were well respected community members. They taught hula and oli, and ALSO performed the roles of goddesses in hula in rituals that were off-limits to women. It’s SO awesome learning about other cultures and realizing the similarities we have!

[@karaqakkzl]

I thought they were like Vietnamese geisha.

[@YumLemmingKebabs]

Pretty sure I was an adult before I learned mahu was something other than a slur. Colonialism is a fuck.

[@juni__]

amazing...!!

[@kenobi90000]

Shoutouts to Lumity for being the real true first queer couple in Disney.

[@DahVoozel]

Not just because it's cute as heck, but also is written like an age appropriate romance over the whole series and allowed to actually be rather than having to be coy for four seasons.

[@someonepassingby1635]

And also Raine for being a non-binary representative 👏

[@randompromises1038]

gravity falls had one but the creator had to fight tooth and nail for them to exist. so out of spite he kept making them interact with explicit homosexual undertones just to exhaust executives. honestly i respect that he didn't and still doesn't take their bullshit of pretending to care about the lgbtq+ community when it's progressive at the time (i.e. pride month)

[@rosenrot234]

Makes me wish we got the gay pairings in Gargoyles. The guy in charge of the show wanted Lexington to date one of the UK Gargoyle guys but of course got shot down because it was the 90s as well as being disney.

[@nightmarefanatic1819]

Also not toxic because all Namaari really learned in the movie is she can be a shit person and can expect to be forgiven with no apology. Fuck I hate this movie.

[@pankhuribhatnagar2360]

42:00 so many important points said here. The colonial rule really damaged our cultures. They even butchered the arts and crafts industry in India(maybe even in other countries). Im glad there are so many of us are reclaiming our culture and bringing the beauty back

[@pheonixrises11]

This comment reminds me of the videos made by a woman trying to recreate The Peacock Dress, which had embroidery done by Indian craftspeople, but she learned how a lot of the industry was destroyed in India so that what they made could be made in England instead, not only because it was popular in England but so they could sell it back to the people they stole it from. I could be remembering wrong, but if anyone looks up “the peacock dress” they can learn more about it

[@pankhuribhatnagar2360]

@@pheonixrises11 Exactly!!!!! I remember my grandparents telling me how they were forced to buy clothes "imported" from England by paying import duty for clothes that were essentially manufactured locally, but taken to england, rebranded and sold here. Thats why Gandhi's weaving wheel movement was so significant. Giving Indians back the power to wear clothes. That and the salt movement. By God those people were monsters!!

[@ravekicker]

similar to what happened in the colonial era in the philippines. pre colonial philippines were very queer until spaniards enforced the idea that not being a cishet is a sin along with their influence of christianity centuries ago so the queer aspects of our culture died out and was almost forgotten by the general public. its truly sad

[@honeybeemoo]

British colonizers literally cut off the thumbs of the weavers who weaved muslin, jamdani and many more traditional suti fabric clothes around Bengal to destroy the cottage industries surrounding these crafts. So that the cheap copies they made in their factories in England could be more accepted than the high-quality original product. Today, these mostly exist in stories💔

[@pankhuribhatnagar2360]

@@honeybeemoo ohhhh fuck I never knew that. This takes their assholery to another level...

[@puettwillcox2250]

I have never before seen a big creator so actively and clearly use their platform to lift up others voices, this is epic and you continously show how awesome you are

[@MyFatherLooksLikeAPallasCat]

This was amazing! As an Iranian Queer person I always like to learn more about queerness in other countries, but the discourse is heavily dominated by the western experience. This was by far the best video/article/anything I’ve seen covering SEA.

[@m.a3646]

Same! And I agree 💯

[@Dan-zc3ou]

I'm still mad about Raya, "bisexual" Loki and Luca, especially this last one since i'm a gay italian 20 years old. My take on the matter is pretty much the same explained in James Somerton's video called "Disney's gay cultura appropiation", where Disney has found that sweet spot where they can bait the queers and make it invisible to straight people, exploiting a queer person life experiences, rebranding and selling it under a different name, basically "straight gaslighting".

[@ianesgrecia8568]

I'm not actually blaming this on Disney. People WILL insert themselves on these characters specially in this day and age. In Luca all I saw was children and friendship. But people were all 'they be f**kin' More recently in Encanto you have people pointing at Isabela with a 'she is CLEARLY a lesbian' because she didn't want to marry one guy even thou in the pre-work she even had a secret boyfriend. Camilo had very little screen time and people are going 'he is TOTALLY a non-binary because he is a shapeshifter' REALLY? Why didn't no one called Mystic or Morph from X-men non-binaries? Or any other shapeshifters from other shows? I see no problem with ships and headcanons and all that. If people want to think they are non-binary/gay/lesbian go and have fun. Make fanfics and share with people. It's good and nice and okay. The problem is when they begin to see this as the only possibility and calling others homofobics and all that because they don't agree

[@boshwa20]

Wait, what's wrong with Loki?

[@boshwa20]

@ライフさようなら I wonder why this guy was pissed at that, if anything him just casually mentioning was the best thing they did. I guess people like to move goal posts

[@StarryEyed0590]

@@ianesgrecia8568 To be fair, the X-Men movies (which are what mainstream culture knows) always have Mystique shapeshift into a female form unless there is a specific male she needs to impersonate for strategic reasons. It's obvious from the films that Mystique sees herself as female. Mystique is also already queer in the comics (but still cis, as far as I know), and also transgender issues weren't as prominent when the X-Men movies were coming out.

[@zoguy6988]

And it's extremely painful when being a queer movie lover living with a heteronormative movie lover. Trying to explain queerbaiting to my mother was a nightmare.

[@podoke]

i cant imagine how much work went into this!! im a 2nd gen korean american and lately i've JUST started looking for korean queer culture content on youtube and have found myself shocked?? i think i spent so long being fed the narrative that asians are conservative that i just assumed there would not be much of an lgbtq community in korea but ive been pleasantly surprised at the amount of queer youtubers ive found. this video definitely sparked my interest to go learn more about the queer history in korea:D thank u guys for this wonderful video. something about hearing minorities get to speak in depth about these topics without being spoken over/watered down is soo refreshing

[@jennyw5904]

Do you have any channels you recommend? This video inspired me to learn about queerness across different cultures myself.

[@mahima3452]

do you have any suggestions on where to start because i want to learn about queer history in korea too!

[@user-op4mc1cu3o]

Pre-colonial Philippines is actually more accepting of same sex relationships and queerness. We have transgender deities in our mythologies and gender crossing practices are normal.

[@notlloy3572]

not to mention how women and men in precolonial philippines were seen as equal and babaylans (who were usually women but could also be men) were very respected in their community

[@FG-tu4fq]

Not to mention one of our mythologies has the god of death being hella gay for the god of the moon.

[@notlloy3572]

@@FG-tu4fq apparently we're not sure if that's real or not (cough cough years of history being destroyed by colonizers) but i choose to believe they were hella gay for each other

[@MEOWMIX3DS]

sadly people here these days listen to white people's headcanons than their own ancestors 🙄

[@natsumie.williams3931]

@@notlloy3572 as much as it pains me but I'm sorry that's made up you can read more about it in Aswang project which detais more about it

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

Playing with the idea of gender is something I don't think enough fantasy writing does. Something I used to play around with in my own writing was the idea of "gender roles" that weren't actually based on sex. Because all gender roles are, when you strip away everything, is just a way society organizes its members. They're always based on sex as far as I know in the "real world," but there's no reason it has to be. One specific culture I developed was one where gender roles weren't based on sex, but more on the capacity to take care of yourself. They had dress styles that related to these roles so it could be instantly recognized which one you were as well as complex expectations for each role. Naturally, because you age and mature, in this culture you change gender roles as you grow, with the exception of the disabled gender category - the people who would always need a certain amount of care just to survive. The disabled category were venerated as a reminder from the gods that, no matter how independent you become, you will always need some help to survive, so you should never try to become so independent that you alienate yourself. The disabled would be looked to for advice on organizing and it was their role to find out who in the culture is struggling and advice the leaders on what to do to help them. The heavily mentally disabled were their own subcategory and were seen as being gifted with prophetic powers, but prophecy reveals itself obliquely, so it was necessary to interpret their words carefully and basically became non-diefic focuses of worship. But as far as gender roles related to sex, there really weren't any, because this group of people were a non-human species with low sexual dimorphism. The infants developed to a state of eating solid foods very quickly, so breast feeding was a short enough period that the women didn't really need to take a long break from their other adult duties and it was the duty of the old adolescents to do most of the work of caring for the children after infancy. As a result of this, relations between siblings and cousins tended to be far more important than between parents and children, though obviously the parent-child relationship was not meaningless. So, while this wasn't what we thought of as gender in modern discussion, it fulfilled the same social purpose as gender. And the great thing about fantasy is it lets you challenge notions like this. Even the fundamental assumption that gender must be based on anything biological at all. Because while sex is built in at a genetic level, everything related to gender is mostly just cultural assumptions. And even sex being genetic can be challenged, because sex is just a function of biological reproduction and you could have species that have more than two biological sexes. Or, say like certain species of amphibiaans, where certain environmental conditions can trigger a spontaneous change in biological sex. The point of this long ramble is basically that fantasy lets you really explore and challenge our notions of sex and gender, but we always frame that in terms of how it relates to traditional western gender norms and that is really boring.

[@sophiejones3554]

That is a really cool idea! I would *looove* to read this story!

[@eldritchabomination]

Gosh now I feel inspired

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

@@sophiejones3554 Unfortunately, I never got around to writing a story that detailed that. The group was always mentioned on the side as a background detail, but I ended up falling out of my writing hobby before I got there.

[@roguishwretches]

I'm currently doing worldbuilding for my own story and I have written a different gender structure as well! at least subconsciously, bc I'm non-binary and decided that I didn't want transphobia/enbyphobia to exist in this world (or any queer-phobia for that matter) the continent's name is Kaslin and one thing I have down rn is that there is some sort of "coming out" ritual in the currently unnamed southern archipelago-it takes place whenever the person is ready (usually 8-15 years of age but can be older, younger, or hell it may not even happen at all) and it is a sort of traditional declaration/celebration with lots of food, dance, all that fun stuff (the food and dance pertains to the individual's gender identity!) this is usually done with family and friends They don't assign genders to newborns as gender is decided by the individual-in fact to label your child prematurely is considered very disrespectful and ungodly However, some things are categorized into certain gendered groups, but the gendered groups/roles are not binary and not based off of sex one gender role is characterized as being fluid, another "androgynous", another "masculine" (considered that way bc male individuals often lean to this role) "feminine" (same thing as the former but with females), neither/unsure (similar to being agender), list goes on and on bc the gender roles are a whole huge spectrum and can mix with one another one of my ocs is from the archipelago and they're non-binary!! as well as their child and all of this stuff is just brushing the surface of one of Kaslin's regions!! the whole Eastern side of Kaslin shares a similar structure to this but it varies depending on region, I could go on and on but I do not have the time nor the energy to do so wjsbq, plus Kaslin is only a couple of months old so a lot of it is still in early development (if anyone's read this far I appreciate you listening to my rambling lol)

[@JadePlayer2]

If you get a chance read Brian Schanrch's Neither Man nor Woman. It talks about different gender roles and how they aren't always based on sexual dimorphism. Some native American tribes had as many as 4 genders. Ultimately you're correct, historically it's a way of organizing people to ensure the work gets done.

[@zacharyvangrack5424]

On the topic of Qui Nguyen and queer subtext in his writing: My university performed his play "She Kills Monsters" at the start of the pandemic, and because of this we had to switch to a completely online platform for the performance. Qui Nguyen was brought on board to do rewrites of his play that incorporated the online format into the text of the play itself. We even got to meet him and talk with him about the play and its content. And a week later, we get his rewritten version of the script that included a change in time period to the "present" where the online format would make sense and... all of the queerness erased from the entire play. We asked him why he made these changes, and he effectively replied with "I wanted this to be popular in universities across the country and didn't want to upset conservative audiences." The new script can be found online and it's called "She Kills Monsters: Virtual Realms". So yeah, Qui Nguyen has a history of queer erasure in his writing. (P.S. If you need proof of this, my school's production was technically the "original cast" for this new version meaning our names are in the script. You can look it up and you will see my name in the cast list.)

[@Cookiecat01]

What a shame :(

[@Poglavnit_Pferdefuhrer]

A bit boneheaded since the *original* would never be accepted in the places that cared about that sort of thing either (like Brigham Young), "that" being the whole d&d part since, you know, *_IT'S SATANIC!!!_*

[@zealouslyCantankerous]

what's the name of your university ?

[@zacharyvangrack5424]

@@zealouslyCantankerous University of Maryland

[@yas7689]

As a bugineese person who contributed on this discord, I want to address a key difference of our (eastern, south sulawesi specific) view of the LGBTQ culture that's probably will be hard for us to accept/understand due to our westernized views regarding LGBTQ relationship. In the bugineese culture, the trans-people can only be romantically and sexually related to another cis-people, or the trans-people that are their opposite biological-sex. so, for example, a trans-woman can have a relationship with a cis-woman, or a trans-man. I don't really dig dive into the details here but I think it's for the generational/legacy continuation of the tribe, and for sexual activity to be able to be performed since anal sex is frowned upon, and reproduction is highly encouraged.

[@junirenjana]

Yep, that's also why the terms "trans woman" and "trans man" don't fully capture the meaning of calabai and calalai. It's better to think of them as separate gender identities filling specific gender roles. A calabai rarely wants to be considered as a makkunrai ("cis woman") and undergoes full transition, they usually just want to be known as a calabai. Likewise with calalai and oroane ("cis man"). Also, the traditional Buginese system doesn't actually acknowledge same-sex relationship. A makkunrai/makkunrai or makkunrai/calalai relationship (AFAB on both sides) would be regarded as weird, but oroane/calalai, makkunrai/calabai, calabai/calalai wouldn't.

[@yas7689]

@@junirenjana exactly, it's basically "heteronormative-trans-person"

[@marilucs]

Just remember kids, theres a difference between "Queerbaiting" and "Queercoding"

[@shawky3864]

"The idea that their ancestors would have welcomed them with open arms even though people today look down upon them" oh this got me, i spent some years drifting away from my culture(and probably still do//) when I realized I was queer and realizing that there's nowhere I would belong so I took refuge in western queer media's that is until I also noticed that it is nothing like home and ended up alienated by it, today though I wonder if my ancestors would look at me and give on a disapproving look on me or maybe give me something like a "like ancestors like succesor" I think I would cry of joy. Again thank you Xiran and team for such a lovely analysis! I throughly enjoyed it and learn something new from this series! Best wishes and luck!💜💜

[@z2yn]

That moment when you thought it ended but then another part came out and you're greatful for it? That's me when I got the notification about this video

[@ariverbythesea]

I've never seen Disney torn apart to shreds and scrutinized and criticized of screwing up so much since Adam of YourMovieSucks did his Lion King/Kimba review

[@TheIqram12]

well Disney did that with Star Wars before, so why not Lion King, and Raya this time?

[@KikiYushima]

Bruh if you want to see Disney trashed even more check out YMS Highlights. There's a 12+ part video series on Adam working on his _actual_ LK live action review. He tears Disney apart so much in it. And the actual review isn't even out yet either!

[@origamipein18]

Me, either. 😮

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

@@KikiYushima Is Adam a white man?💀

[@ianesgrecia8568]

They some of Sideway analysis on musicals. They are very good.

[@ginkiba3]

An underlying problem with all this is that Disney needs to stop being seen as a potential vehicle for queer identities, much less with BIPOC LGBTQ+ representation. It's an American company that primarily caters to American, Western, and Westernized audiences and it already barely pays any attention to white gay men in their own material -- as a white gay man I don't expect Disney to ever give us, the vanilla LGBTQ+ Western experience, easily the most privileged and visible segment, the time of day. It's all subtext, minor characters, or queer-baiting. While it is genuinely great that you have cultures being represented more authentically in movies like Encanto, Coco, and Luka, it's still ultimately a cash-grab and not part of any agenda to diversify and inclusify pop media for voices and perspectives that need a wider platform. Anyone who's watched the past two parts to this video knows it crash and burned with Raya from the start. What we really need is to amplify BIPOC and LGBTQ+ voices. What I love about this specific video is that it demonstrates how Indonesia, Vietnam, Singapore, and other SEA nations have thriving music and cinema scenes that give visible presence to queer people and communities. LGBTQ+ rights isn't unique to the West. LQBTQ+ culture isn't just a subset of Western culture. It's a universal thing that takes on unique aspects and nuances within different cultures, and that should be celebrated and highlighted, especially in areas where its' particularly repressive.

[@aleaf1494]

Couldn't have said it better! thank you!

[@kordeliiius9821]

Coding in Encanto and Laika’s films I agree with but Coco?!? I must’ve missed that, do tell 👀

[@sarahwatts7152]

Totally agree that Disney shouldn't be given so much importance - but it's so hard when they are the only ones making widely watched movies about different cultures.

[@ianesgrecia8568]

I say and repeat: BEING BLACK/GAY/FEMALE IS NOT A PERSONALITY TRAIT. But these producers and writers still insist on the character being only that and making crap of a plot. Calling movies like Encanto, Moana and Coco a cash-grab is doing a disservice to the whole culture themselves. They are not only original franchise but they consistently put the culture and parts of the people to make the whole world interested on them. Just because the movie did well does not mean it's a cash-grab. ALL MOVIES NEED TO MAKE MONEY, but cash-grab are movies that DON'T MAKE AN EFFORD TO PRODUCE THE ART. I just wish that these writers put some perspective and made GOOD characters of diversity. Like Rosa from Brooklin, or Xena, Lara croft, Rippler and many other that came before where being a protagonist had to have an actual good character.

[@juliannehannes11]

A gay man name Howard Ashman singlehandedly brought on the Disney Renneisance and breathed new life into the dying studio and EVERY animated musical since 1989 and now is modeled after his format he invented from his lifelong love of Broadway and if it weren't for him Disney would be solely Touchstone Pictures and Disneyland would have fallen into disrepair and bought out by WB, Disney owes EVERYTHING to him, a gay man with a vision they could not fathom in their small minded straight male brains of toxic masculinity, never forget that, never forget it was a gay man who made the modern Disney format we know and so love today, Howard did that, not Walt, for Walt was long dead. What I want as a queer woman is diversity behind the scenes given the opportunity for their vision to be seen and being able to be storytellers in control of the narrative and getting full credit of their work without having to have a straight white man by their side holding all the cards and accolades.

[@InvisibleRen]

43:40 😅I felt the upset. Haha, I remember feeling that same rage when a family member tried to say that Christianity saved enslaved Africans. I am African American and this family member is too, yet they considered it a fortune of slavery. I mean, it would’ve spread to us in Africa via missionaries had we stayed there but you see what colonialism did to African societies, so how can you defend enslavement which is like colonialism squared? 🤦🏾 I respect religious individuals on an individual basis but it stuns me how people don’t see that colonialism and the import of Christianity brought homophobia and other hate to their original cultures. That’s the root of the problem, that we destroyed our rich cultures and forgot that it’s hate that was imported involuntarily so many centuries or decades ago.

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

Your comment reminds me so much of Things Fall Apart

[@bobi200samatar6]

So, I'm Muslim Somali, and it stuns me on just how much of the Muslim world was open to gay men, only men tho, before Christian colonizers came in and imposed laws on them that demonized, restricted and censored gay men from our art and writing. And now we act like that's our tradition and that's how it's supposed to be. No, that's the tradition of the white people that colonized us and the Saudi puppets that imposed their wahabi version of Islam on us. People need to learn history.

[@thismissivemisfit]

You should fan that rage by listening to the podcast "Stuff The British Stole". As a SEA person living in a former British colony, I am STILL upset at how much of our cultural treasures and texts are still being held in European museums, and the Western laws that were imposed on us in exchange for independence.

[@psychonaut1502]

Africans did turn their Christianity into their own special thing. But I think before Christianity, homosexuality wasn't widely known or tolerated. I remember reading about a tribe who didn't know what it even was. Christianity, though, isn't necessarily alien to Africa. Ethiopian Christianity is ancient, from the 600s and before. Christianity doesn't have to destroy cultural values. Look at Korea or the Philippines, the latter having a tolerance of the LGBT.

[@annyebei]

@@psychonaut1502 There are tribes that have more than the binary happening as well- like the SEA have. So it's mixed across tribes- it varies. Overall, colonialism fucked up more things than not in Africa.

[@quietrioter]

I'm just happy Kelly Marie Tran is still getting work. I'm not a fan of Last Jedi and have said Rose Tico could be edited out of the film and nothing would change, but she did not deserve what happened to her

[@pollenpolluche]

This project was truly gigantic, 3 well researched and analyzed videos over an hour long each. I'm very impressed

[@conho4898]

In ancient Vietnam, intersex people were brought to the imperial court as natural born eunuchs. They were born with an already established career for them, and was highly revered. There r even proverbs praising the miracle of having intersex children.

[@petemcnaughton2482]

Now having reached nearly six hours of Raya discussion, all I can say it that...this is so wonderful! I wasn't expecting to run through so many emotions from an extended movie review!!! 😭I'm glad I found the time to even glance at some of the depths of Southeast Asian culture this week. Thank you Xiran for assembling all these wonderful people!

[@nrb27]

That style of queer coding more than white focused I'd say is more specifically american. I may be white but the only reason why I'm familiar with some of that is because I've seen it in foreign movies, and didn't even realize it was meant to show them as queer most of the times.

[@coca_0146]

yeah

[@Crosshill]

i personally detected no queer subtext cause their relationship was written so lacklusterly that they didnt even seem like friends or foes to begin with, let alone would-be lovers, like wow you talked about dragons for what, 20 minutes or whatever, all i know is that it was less than a day, and then they overdid the villain twist. either she had to decide between a budding friendship or nationalism when suddenly given the chance, in which case they failed to show the emotional conflict which her entire character arc is about, or she had somehow planned the whole thing before they even met which undermines everything anyhow the biggest sin of this movie was setting it in south east asia and then having the most generically uninteresting scenery like what the hell

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

Yet another LGBT relationship for Tax Purposes; carefully alluded to in the hopes the audience baits themselves into it, never acted on to avoid being called out on when they subsequently strip those lines and scenes out of certain international versions. You don't get credit for a relationship you baited the audience into making for themselves so you could lie about having never meant to do it if it goes wrong. Also, this video series is now seven minutes short of being three times longer than the entire film it is critiquing, and I have a feeling you are not even done.

[@MayorOfEarth79]

What's weird though is that there wasn't even any online discourse about the queer relationship or even a debate of queerbaiting relating to it. And both those aspects were heavy when people talked about Luca or The Mitchells vs. The Machines

[@aylacrissman3443]

Faithfully asking you to review JACKIE CHAN ADVENTURES and AMERICAN DRAGON: JAKE LONG. Please and thank you! 🙏🙏🙏

[@SyrEmilon]

Pretty please with a cherry on top!

[@BBWahoo]

And El Tigre!

[@hellogoditsmesara3569]

AMERICAN DRAGON MY CHILDHOOD

[@just_extremely_confused]

Yezzz.....

[@daffo595]

American dragon barely explores that theme in the show. Even if she made a video on it there’s nothing to talk about. It’s mostly just about jake’s adventures as a fantasy realm guardian and the fantasy creatures are mostly Western European types, barely any mention of Chinese mythology.

[@littlemisstfc]

Two things: 1) As much as I really like the fanart and rewrites of the story for the ship, I feel like a television series is the best route to develop Raya’s and Namaari’s relationship (or at least fix the problems regarding that relationship). Maybe this is because I’m queer and POC, but all the points in this video are valid. Amazing job as always. 👍🏽 2) I ABSOLUTELY LOVE XIRAN’S FASHION STYLE! 🙏🏽😭

[@appletart7262]

I believe they’re dressed in Chinese Peking opera attire? Correct if I am wrong thou

[@Walking_Spinel]

If the audience has the option to -choose- to believe whether or no a character is queer, then it's not true representation

[@ninarances9074]

That's what I was thinking. It's not representation because you're letting the audience do the work that you are supposed to do. Might as well give the audience the opportunity to create their own stories with good representation, instead of silencing them or messing with them.

[@falconeshield]

It's the gay button in video games, except you only watch the cutscenes

[@L3onking]

I'm a shaman in northwest and I dance, sing and play music depending on what spirit needs to speak through me. I'm very glad that gay mediums around the world end up in similar roles

[@miquelescribanoivars5049]

Well, as Encanto showed, you either bait your audience into believing you are inclusive or you let the fandom do that themselves.

[@thelanktheist2626]

At least Encanto was set somewhere.

[@FunnyFany]

"Surely this time Disney will do a good job at the representation of lgbtq+ people" --Disney fans putting on their clown make-up for the 18483th time when Disney has consistently shown zero concern or interest in doing that in any of their movies, ever,

[@whythont9395]

@@FunnyFany 100th disneys first gay character when

[@miquelescribanoivars5049]

@@FunnyFany I mean, they did with The Owl House... Only to promptly cancel it.

[@anee.778]

@@miquelescribanoivars5049 they went back with Luz and amity?

[@theSBC1409]

1) Finally part 3 is out! 2) I like how Xiran is wearing the opera outfit from the last video.

[@duicic8541]

Side note... As much as I want the Screaming Slippers to become a meme for - well, something (could be queerbaiting, it's too good not to use either way), I fear that globally, too few people would make the effort to spread it. Too much effort involved for the average meme culture to work their way into the context.

[@TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight]

If you tried to convince me that Raya x Namaari is a great couple, then I’d laugh at you for trying to bring together two enemies who barely know each other. That’s fanfiction level insanity. Aiming a crossbow at your “partner”, tricking her a few hours after meeting her, outright betraying her trust, and refusing to apologize would lead to severe need for therapy… for Namaari. That’s not romantic; it’s toxic. In fact, the way Raya is blamed for mistrust while Namaari isn’t sounds an awful lot like an abusive relationship.

[@morganqorishchi8181]

Honestly most fanfic I see either rewrites the entire movie to make Raya/Namaari work or just goes ahead and ships Raya with some other Disney leading lady, so calling this 'fanfic level' is wrong. Fanfic is better than this. Fanfic writers know the only way to get this to work is to redo it all or get a different woman for Raya.

[@rosenrot234]

@@morganqorishchi8181 I do appreciate when fanfic writers just go "Oh hell no I'm fixing this shit" and actually do it well. I mean think about it. You have to be pretty dang passionate about characters to go "I know them more than you" and actually back that up with a nicer story to boot.

[@itrashcant7947]

I agree. I couldn’t care less if they’re supposed or implied to be bi, but please don’t make them date each other. They have no chemistry and it’s just toxic.

[@kai8618]

Damn...they're in their Catradora Arc frfr😂

[@krystalhuntress6795]

42:10 I'm Jamaican and I remember learning in school that sexual relationships between men were illegal and ppl could be imprisoned for it :( Cause culture here is still very homophobic I doubt it'll be repealed any time soon

[@austinluther5825]

Great video. I've learned so much about SEA culture from this series. As far as queerbaiting goes, I guess I'm just used to it. I'm a gay trans man, and whenever I say queer coding or blatant stereotypes I just sigh and move on. Which itself is bad, I know. I've just gotten so used to being misrepresented, often in ways that perpetuate harmful stereotypes, that I'm just tired and never expect any better.

[@Sootielove]

These videos are exactly why cultural information is so important to get from people who know the culture. This is endlessly fascinating and I'm so glad to learn about these countries in such wonderful contexts

[@annalysenko9180]

“They think the more traditional you are, the more conservative and heteronormative you must be” THIS.

[@vickylikesthis]

these videos stop about being raya in the first 5 minutes for me and i just fully enjoy learning tons about SEAn queer culture.

[@shanechristie2956]

I have to request you cover Farewell My Concubine in your Peking Opera look. Or maybe Peking Opera Blues if you can access it. More people need to see these movies. And Farewell My Concubine is a famous LGBT narrative that discusses 20th century Chinese history and the Cultural Revolution. Also, Peking Opera Blues is a remarkably female-led historical action comedy.

[@mylesjude233]

Sounds like a awesome idea 💡

[@julesk3816]

really adored this whole trilogy and the variety of perspectives and information shared throughout. hearing some of the ideas suggested by the speakers about better examples of queerness, such as roles as religious leaders, dancing different-gender dances, swapping traditional clothing, all sounds so much more interesting and grounded in meaning than just "hey, this woman has an undercut!" thank you to xiran and all of the speakers for creating such great critiques!

[@Alias_Anybody]

Disney should take some inspiration from a character they acquired: "Do or don't, there is no trying"

[@pattheplanter]

I tink they went with "Conceal, don't feel, don't let them know" instead.

[@lenslucas]

Historically for the Philippines too, we share similar histories in terms of the queer culture. We have a deity called Lakapati who was described as a hermaphrodite goddess of fertility and agriculture. We also have warriors like Nagmalitong Yawa, Buyong Sumasakay of Panay and Ladalad a Madali who summon or switch from feminine to masculine depending on the need in the battle. In the Teduray tribes from Mindanao, Mentefuwaley libun & lagey exist as term similarly to transmen and transwomen. It's mere vocabulary existence says a lot. But, I'd love to highlight the catalonan, babaylan culture, which reminded me closely of the animist and shaman culture in traditional Vietnam shown in the video. Since the deity of the earth in our culture has a feminine energy, the babaylan had to be akin to that same energy in movement and expression. During those days, if a biologically born male chooses to be a babaylan, the community would treat her to be one. Unfortunately, with the emergence of colonialism and catholicism, that culture had been demonized and some parts of that stigma still remains today. I agree with SpacedPanini. Our culture is generally tolerant, but we still don't have a law to protect our SOGIE Rights. And would you believe that our pets have earlier rights than the LGBTQIAA+? Our pets had Animal Rights act set in 1994, while the SOGIE Bill is still being fought until now.

[@CinnamonGrrlErin1]

Disney's gotta check off all those diversity boxes, no matter what. That comes before any other aspect of their movies now.

[@CinnamonGrrlErin1]

@Luis Suazo I had almost no interest in Disney the company until a couple of years ago (2019 I think) when people were trapped on the Skyliners at WDW, and ever since then, so many things have either underperformed or are so poorly received (whether it's movie/show or park-related) that it really is a matter of time before they past the point of recovery. Not to mention how much they lost during the pandemic; no amount of raising prices and cutting back employees or canceling projects is going to save them, because they keep doubling down on their bad decisions for whatever reason. Like everyone and their brother knows the Galactic Starcruiser is going to crash and burn, but they just announced they're building a new housing development (in the middle of a very drought-plagued area no less).

[@friend_trilobot]

I would personally use queer baiting to mean it was advertised as more queer than it was, directly or indirectly, and queer coded if it had vibes of being queer within the text itself that never became too explicit. They have similar effects, but queer baiting can only be an extremely intentional strategy but queer coding can and often has happened without any intention from the author(s) - many non queer people use tropes that read as queer to queer audiences without fully understanding the implications - it might seem "cool" - they might try to make a female character look like girlpower pop feminism but they come off as a lesbian to some queer audiences. Or they might have a queer character designer (and there are often multiple people involved in the entire design process) who, even unconsciously, gives the character queer vibes. Three difference is also important bc with a lot of the most recent works, especially coming from the Disney umbrella, it seems like if there's a canonically queer character they 10 to 1 aren't overly queer coded - it seems like companies like to draw in queer audiences by either having super queer coded characters who are prominent main characters but never explicitly stated to be queer, or have a queer character that is stated to be queer but still isn't too obviously queer or only has a minor role. In both cases it's to appease and attract queer audiences without alienating anti-lgbtq audiences (or more often) countries with anti-LGBTQ media censorship - i.e. it's to make money... its never not about just making as much money as possible, and it always will be as long as it's a major global industry in a capitalist economy - more niche films can survive without loss of global audiences, and competing companies might tty to reach the audience Disney can't quite catch, di they might take more risks - but if putting prominent queer characters in movies becomes more profitable for Disney's business model (which relies heavily on the willingness of countries like China to give the film a release) they will do it, and it will not be bc they are "good" people - they're faceless companies, do not give them that level of respect or fall pray to the fallacy of personifying them through their directors, producers, lead actors, PR teams, or executives.

[@najwaaaamira]

as a queer Indonesian, i cried watching that part where you talk about queerness in Indonesia. oh my god i love you and your team so much thankyou for making this video 😭💕💕💕

[@ceecatstuff8925]

It's a bit unfortunate that the LGBTQ+ capital countries Thailand, and Philippines wasnt showcased as much but this is still amazimgly well put!

[@CattyFae]

wait, please elaborate, I'm a Filipino American and I know nothing of this and want to know where to start looking...

[@WulfyFang3]

As a white, queer person, I'm genuinely disgusted that this is the current reality. I'm so grateful to Xiran for helping to share these issues. I paused the video on the screen talking about SEA masculinity, and I agree that it would have been dope as hell if Raya and/or Namaari could have had different designs.

[@ThalesWell]

Misogyny sometimes runs deeper than racism. It's fairly widely accepted now in America for women to conform to traditionally masculine norms, but for men to attempt traditionally feminine norms typically faces extreme resistance. This is probably because American culture props up the masculine as good and derides the feminine.

[@killerfoxes2909]

Okay, I'm getting into this video, and I'm starting to wonder.....wait, we are going to mention the Philippines and Thailand right? Thai/Philippines gay and trans culture is...everywhere. It's a whole lot more common than in the United States, even in big cities. Now, that isn't to say there isn't also discrimination, and when talking about actual laws being passed....yeah, there is a lot of room to grow. But, if I walk into a random coffee shop in the United States, it is very doubtful that I see a very open gay or trans barista. On the ohter hand, in Thailand or the Philippines...it's extremely common. It is impossible to go anywhere in the Philippines or Thailand without seeing Thai/Philippine queer culture, and I feel like..not having that as a major part of the video is disservice to those groups. Again, I'm not finished with the video, but I'm getting worried as I see the focus is on Vietnam/Indonesia/Singapore. In fact, I live in Korea, and most of my queer friends IN KOREA are Filipino. Not talking about those two countries when talking about SEA queerness just seems like a ignoring two glaring examples of countries where queer culture is thriving (again, I'm not saying that means they don't face tons of discrimination, they do! but they are there, constantly, visible, within those two countries communities and cultures). Also, on the note of white people not reading non-white people are queer, that is a big issue I can see confusing my queer friends from Philippines and Thailand. They have totally different sets of words, accepting terms, definitions, etc. My close friend and I here have to talk everything out all the time. We are both nonbinary by Western standards, but that is a totally other thing from Filipino standards (with different words, but also even different ways of thinking. I find it personally facinating...but I find others are not quite so open minded as me, especially white people [i say this as a white person]). It's just a whole mess. I know trans women from the States would find a WHOLE lot offensive about trans culture from the Philippines and Thailand, but...that's the thing, they have their own queer culture that developed basically seperately from queer culture in the States or other Western countries, and I'm not sure that we should be attempting to force them to conform to Western standards and practices (that sounds like cultural imperialism to be quite honest).

[@perthro593]

imo, they didnt really touch on thai and filipino lgbt+ culture because they lack members who can properly represent them. better not to misrepresent anything after all. ive noticed that, even in the last 2 videos, there was a lack of filipino input and a bit of misinformation, but i cant give em too much a of a hard time given they had fewer fil members, especially ones who arent diaspora.

[@psychonaut1502]

It's kind of ironic that LGBT people are so common in the Philippines, one of the only Christian countries in Asia and extremely Catholic.

[@ianesgrecia8568]

@@psychonaut1502 not really. This IS a video made by non-professionals and they don't have the whole picture, althou it IS a very large picture that I'm very impressed and admired with. Like she said on the beginning: They don't speak for all people of their culture and there are many that are still repressed by the dictatorial shackes and don't speak up on their sexuality. Being from a Christian country where even the pope encoraged the LGBT made it better and more free

[@viywtf]

Omg finally someone mentioned it. As a Filipino genderfluid queer person I feel really left out in these conversations. from my experiences I feel like the Philippines tolerates queerness then accepting it because I feel like sometimes they do expect you to be cis and heterosexual. Although I do agree with perthro Xrian did mention that didn’t have enough members who could talk about those experiences.

[@perthro593]

@@viywtf ayo high-five im genderfluid too

[@raveneskridge3143]

it's absolutely astounding to think that someone could say that hiring SEA actors or writers is "asking for too much" or is "too much work". you guys came together in a non-professional setting to make this video and lay out a brief explanation of queerness in your cultures. i'm sure it's not a drop of sweat from Disney's back to do some Googling, but we all know the issue is that Disney has always and will always value profit over authenticity or respect.

[@bassjoonius]

I'm an Indonesian lesbian and this presentation means a lot to me. I have to admit that I'm not that in-touch with my own traditional culture due to growing up in a multicultural family. I've never felt belong in any specific ethnic group, and this feeling was later heightened after i came out as queer. I thought I would never feel belong anywhere. I discover so many new things from this presentation. The "their ancestors would welcome them with an embrace" statement gives me so much joy. (also I can't even count how many times i see people outside SEA say stuff like "how can you be queer in Indo" as if queer people don't exist here just because of the current queerphobic social climate--) I'm a creative myself (a writer mostly) and this encourages me to write my coming of age novel without erasing the queerness in it. Though I'm not sure how it can ever get published, I feel like "watering down" my characters' queerness would be such a diservice to myself and Indonesian queer youth.

[@stagosaurus3181]

Semangat ce, klo gw boleh baca ntar tolong di send 🙏

[@garibaldibritann1240]

Just write the good story with a character that happened to be a queer and you'll be fine

[@gota7738]

18:18 I've often heard this kind of information mentioned in passing when countering anglosphere transphobia, but it's interesting to hear it being primarily as it's own topic. I really hope we start hearing people speak out more about it outside of the western paradigm.

[@absolutelynotellen]

The most unexpected thing is, Encanto is more memorable than Raya.

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

We don't talk about Raya...

[@gamehero6816]

@@PancakemonsterFO4 no, no, no. We don't talk about Raya... BUT!

[@niveapatrocinioananiasoliv7560]

@@gamehero6816 it was the movie's announcement (the new movie's announcement)

[@gamehero6816]

@@niveapatrocinioananiasoliv7560 we were getting hyped up and there wasn't a cloud in the sky (No clouds allowed in the sky)

[@athakarra619]

I'm central Asian and I am learning so much through this. And yeah it's a shame they queerbaited us this terribly, they KNEW the bait and switch would work. She-Ra did the childhood friends to enemies to lovers story so well that this bait only made me mad.

[@amelia3146]

(irrelevant note): if someone i met once as a kid rolled up over a decade later, dropped a cheesy villain quip, then tried to fight me, i’d be so fucking confused ?? like idek if I’d recognize the person ???

[@deathdoor]

Wait, there's more? Wow, they killed the horse, buried him, did a indigenous ritual to zombified him, unburied him, made him do some work for the village and them they started killing him again. Never seem this level of dedication before. Anyway, this is one video that interests me, romance "baits" is something that really annoys me in media.

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

Love triangles too they absolutely ruin a show for me

[@egg_bun_]

This is the greatest comment ever😂😂😂😂😂

[@renpoblete5743]

The SEA intersectionality discussion in these essays is very nuanced! It's wonderful work. A big thank you and congratulations to all the researchers, editors, and creatives involved in this video series!!

[@renpoblete5743]

A personal note under the cut: I felt extremely seen by the statement that queer SEA people are continuing a specific culture that colonialism had attempted to eradicate. Working / surviving as diaspora makes it easy to forget that this reality is shared by many people, the world over. Thank you for this (hours long!!) reminder that we're all part of many strong and beautiful legacies! I hope you all know that this massive undertaking is so appreciated!

[@Jakioliberty]

I really liked this video and I really related towards the "being queer but for western standards." I am Italian, so i am like... "white and western", but I too felt like "queer representation" given from USA/WASP american movies and stuff like that... not hitting home. That until I read a few comics made by italian authors and then it felt really the "yes this book is made for people like me". Being bombed by the "correct version of being queer" that corresponds the western/white/american way hurts even the other "white cultures".

[@nusquamnemo4780]

The whole discourse is super U.S. Anglo-centric tbh. I feel, as a fellow Latin (hi from Central America!!!) that it's kind of hypocritical to complain about lack of specificity in representation (with which I can sympathize and is fully justified) and then turn around and paint with a big fat brush all of the Western World. Like. Dude. We've to acknowledge there's a whole ass world out there. ALL OF US.

[@Miguel-xd8dd]

@@nusquamnemo4780 True! 100% agree with you

[@armanichu6395]

5:48 To add insult to injury, the character she plays as is arguably the most cowardly and selfish of the five chiefs and the only one to actually die rather than getting petrified. And to make matters worse, she's the darkest-skinned of all the characters. Now I'm not trying to jump to conclusions but I must say the implications are quite eyebrow-raising...

[@xErinxx]

They tried to do the same thing as Moana but take it a step further by alluding to a queer relationship too. I live in Hawaii and A LOT of locals (Native Hawaiians, other Polynesians, legacy mixes, and people who generally know about Polynesian cultures) were not happy with the representation Moana gave Pacific Islanders. The movie was presented as being super authentic, talking about how much research went into. But because Disney tried to make Moana’s culture a blend of a bunch of different ones from real life, it comes off as mockery and ignorance of each of the individual, unique cultures it pulled from. Especially in the way that it misrepresented the mythology. There are people who genuinely believe in Maui and there are criticism against his character for being the wrong personality, disrespected, and about his tattoos. Te Fiti is not even a real goddess, instead her character is a blend of a few goddesses from separate mythologies. I’m not Polynesian myself but to me that seems massively inappropriate, to just through different beliefs together and create a whole new one so you can mass-market it while boasting about authenticity.

[@tyrant-den884]

Pretty sure I first heard about the movie from Disney saying: "WE HAVE AKWAFINA IN THIS! YOU ALL LIKE AKWAFINA RIGHT? SHE'S WHY YOU WATCH ASIAN STUFF IN MOVIES RIGHT? the entirety of Hollywood wasn't wrong for going in on Akwafina RIGHT!?"

[@tyrant-den884]

Also, chain-sword.

[@arya3528]

OHH YESS I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS! Also, thank you so much for all my fellow southeast-asians involved in this project, sending so much love to all of you!!

[@Tengila]

The idea of intersectionality between queerness and cultural reclamation really resonated with me. What is the fight for queer rights if not a fight to live as your truest self?

[@ryanergo754]

Raya was such a weird experience It's a okay popcorn flick as most people aren't really thinking about the themes of the film or the implications of the toxic cesspool that is Raya×whatever that girl's name was as they most probably will forget about it 5 minutes afterwards. It is not accurate at representing; which I wouldn't give a flying fuck about if Disney didn't literally scream REPRESENTATION in the promotion material. It wasn't malicious or evil, it was half assed as Disney thought no one would care, which let's be honest, most people out of some South East Asians didn't and still dont really, as the intentions of these valiant Knights in Twitter are dubious at best, since they seemed to be more concerned with sacking ATLA's dick, which would be understandable in most other circumstances, but not when they were pretending to be some champion of the unheard voices of SEA on the Internet. But it was good to see them (Both Disney and our valiant warriors) get called out for their BS in such a detailed manner.

[@Tenshi6Tantou6Rei]

lol regarding "dep la" it's even worse because it's kind of half of two different adjectives. Let me see if I can explain this. Vietnamese operates on a system of singular syllable words. However, almost every word is accompanied by partner words, otherwise that sometimes functions as a clarifier, and sometimes just makes the word sound right (which I get is a vague and unclear way of putting it, but like I can't express enough how weird not using the partner words sounds lol) like "dep" is never just "dep" it's "dep de" "dep kieu" "dep mat" and "la" is never just "la" it's "ki la" "la lung" ect... and "dep" and "la" are not partner words lol so I'm sure the Vietnamese subbers didn't even think about it like viet. They probably assumed they stole it from some other language I'm still crying about the "screaming slipper" reading, it's so funny

[@rubya.p4437]

I assume you are not living in vietnam or consume any 2010s vietnamese media so you dont know, but đẹp lạ is an actual word, it was created and used mostly by the young in the late 2000s and 2010s (i dont know about the young nowadays though, i am old lol), it usually use as a insult or sarcasm to disagree with one beauty, it mean strange beauty, the beauty you dont understand bascially you say that they are ugly or unattracted so the way the used in this movie is questionable lol.

[@NakuruKouChannel]

im assuming you're not a native speaker, just wanted to clarify that adjectives in fact do stand alone. to elaborate, "đẹp" itself is an adjective for "beautiful" or "pretty", it does not need to be accompanied by a "partner" word, what you're saying is actually a case of reduplication and portmanteau in vietnamese. in particular, đẹp đẽ is a case of reduplication, while đẹp mắt (i have no idea what dep kieu is) is a case of a portmanteau made up of đẹp (adjective) and mắt (noun) meaning "pleasing to the eyes". "lạ" is itself a valid adjective and does not need any accompaniment; "kì lạ" is made up of kì (weird - adj) and lạ (strange - adj) meaning peculiar, "lạ lùng" is a case of reduplication. "đẹp lạ" is a portmanteau made up of đẹp and lạ in the early 2010s as someone else already replied, as a sarcastic comment on how someone's looks is not up to general beauty standards.

[@Tenshi6Tantou6Rei]

@@NakuruKouChannel Ah okay, thank you for the explanation. You're right, I'm not a native, my parents speak it at home and have taught me, but it makes sense that they wouldn't know 2010s media

[@Tenshi6Tantou6Rei]

@@rubya.p4437 oh okay, that makes sense. I learned viet from my parents and they left vietnam back in the 90s also wow lol that's not a word you call your crush

[@eileen1020]

Thank you for including subtitles! KZbin’s autocaptions aren’t very good so subtitles are incredibly helpful.

[@christiangurl111]

Can you do a “Everything culturally right and wrong with Turning Red”?

[@anacalderon3062]

This video is so well made that it made me rethink a lot about my own queer (Colombian) culture and how its portrayed (or lack there of) in media, even the local one. It also made me wonder a lot of how the white queer representation of Encanto has been flown around in social media. Not going deep about that in here but this video made me want to start a project about my own experiences as a Colombian LGBTQ+ person! so thank u so much for sharing your own queer experiences as SEAs, they help more people than you think! And thank u xiran for using the platform to lift these voices!

[@ninarances9074]

But wait, 'Encanto' doesn't have any white queer representation, though.

[@lepetitrin]

I want to add some more information about Đạo Mẫu, as I am living in Vietnam. In the presentation, it says Đạo Mẫu is established around 16th century, but from the folklore, the fairy tale passed down verbally from generation to generation, it may exist long before the era of Vietnam under Chinese rule. Also, Đạo Mẫu initially worships Goddess only, it's for celebrating the woman, the Mother, the feminine in the universe. All deities must be in the form of a woman, and there are only priestesses in the temple. Since it's folk religion, Đạo Mẫu changes and adapts to new religions, from Daoism, Buddhism to the religion practiced by the minority in Vietnam. From the 16th century onward, Đạo Mẫu may have God (male deity) but the majority is till the Goddess (Mẫu, Bà Chúa). It wasn't abandoned simply because the youngsters have no interest in it, or banned because the Communist Party forbids it (and why tho?). Rather, the decline of Đạo Mẫu in Vietnam happened during the era of Vietnam under Chinese rule where Confucianism with the patriarchy system replaced our matriarchy. And the existence of new religions such as Buddhism (in 11th century), and Christianity (in 18th century), as well as the wars, many many wars contribute a big part of Đạo Mẫu's depopulation. Despite such hardship, Đạo Mẫu stands still and is with Vietnamese, in the folklore, in the way we live, in our vocabulary. Many temples may have been abandoned, but some are big and famous enough to become a tourist destination or pilgrimage, like Chùa Bà Đen (Linh Sơn Thánh Mẫu) in Tây Ninh. So no, it isn't exactly private. And the youngsters actually have a big interest in it. We view it as Vietnam's identity, some practice the religion, others study it in cultural aspects. We're trying our best to present Đạo Mậu with art and music. You can search the music video Tứ Phủ by Hoàng Thùy Linh and you'll see. As I mentioned above, Đạo Mẫu is with Vietnamese even in the way we talk. Like the word "bóng" in Hầu Bóng, Vietnamese use it to address queer people, especially trans women. The word "bóng" can also be used as an adjective to address something extra colorful. But "bóng", after the French colonization, has become a slur and Vietnamese youngsters are trying their best to reclaim it. Though some aspects of this topic are still pretty westernized, and kinda...meager, I appreciate the works and the trying to present SEA culture behind this. Thank you, and I hope this comment helps, in some way.

[@Lenlon703]

I checked the comic artist from 18:45 and the comment section didn’t surprise me but it was very disappointing. It’s all death threats and harassment, there were thousands too on each post, I couldn’t scroll on all of it but I couldn’t find a single supportive comment, the nicest ones were ‘they’re misguided but please lets not bully so that we wont be as bad as them’ which isn’t that great either. They stopped posting in 2020, I hope they’re okay.

[@ourikc]

I have issues with how queerbating was defined in the first section (I haven’t finished the video). The way they defined it made the queerbating be based on viewer interpretation rather than authorial intent. I don’t think that something just coded as queer is necessarily queer bating. Certain works are queer coded unintentionally and the authors never intended for the characters to be viewed through that lens, even though the viewer does. In raya in particular I’m not sure if it was intentional or if it was just poor writing that made them look like jilted exes because that made their conflict easier to write while staying on the topic of trust, especially when they didn’t interact enough to have such severe trust issues between them. As to what Tran said I think it’s a catch 22 for creators who accidentally queer code a narrative; if the creator says that the queer reading is wrong and the characters are cishet then they’re perceived as homophobic, on the other hand if they encourage queer readings of their works and say that fans interpretations are valid they’re accused of queerbating. I feel like anyone can read any media as queer (which is valid and really fun to do) but to claim that that piece of media is queerbating because it can be read through a queer lens is wrong because it never tried to be queer. (Edit grammar)

[@xstarrycity3627]

Everything you just said is 100% the reason why I never understand what queerbaiting is to begin with. It just leaves me confused all the time.

[@TexTheBest]

@@xstarrycity3627 queer baiting is a marketing tactic. that's it. when a fictional work doesnt have any intention of having queer characters but the marketing of said work sells it as if there are or there will be queer characters, that, and only that, is queerbaiting.

[@ianesgrecia8568]

@@TexTheBest not 100% but i agree with you. Here are 3 exemples: Voltron can be seen as queerbaiting by making Shiro gay, but not only never really going anywhere with the Topic but also doing even the ending with him marrying some random dude that never interacted with in the show. Brooklin 99 and Korra is NOT queerbaiting because not only the characters came out as LGBT but they had archs and subplots that revolve around queer relationships. Encanto IS NOT queerbaiting because It Not only NEVER ADVERTISE as LGBT and not even one character is focused on a romântic plot. What happend in the last exemple was the LGBT going Crazy and assuming every character is lgbt because they want It. Luisa never demonstrated nothing but because of her body people make assumptions even If for all we know she could even be assexual. Isabela was never a lesbian and in the pre-work even had a secret boyfriend, but because she didnt want to marry THE GUY HER COUSIN WAS IN LOVE WITH suddenly she is gay. Camilo is a shapshifter so OBVIOUSLY he HAD to be non-binary even If literally ALL THE OTHER SHAPSHITERS ON MEDIA never where assumed the same like Morpho or Mystic from X-Men. Mirabel has a rainbow on her dress and even If It was about her tia pepa Weather gift, people ignore to make her lgbt. I'm actually surprised they didnt touch Bruno calling him assexual or something too without any base

[@intothepale3551]

I want to sincerely thank Xiran, Jes, Chin, Lu, Tran, and all of the contributors to this project. I had no desire to see Raya or really dig too deeply into the controversy but after learning about the richness, diversity, and vibrance of all the SEA cultures that the movie claimed to be based on, I feel very badly for the people who sat down to watch this film hoping to see themselves celebrated! I hope these videos go on to inspire a wave of interest in SEA art and culture online, maybe with future SEA artists/filmmakers going mainstream and getting more opportunities to pay proper respectful homage to the beautiful histories explored here.

[@roselover411]

It's so nice to learn so much about SEA culture and queer history! I never knew how much I didn't know. The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. Another wonderful video to add to the chain Xiran has produced. Major props to the speakers and research everyone has put into this huge project!

[@Jonquil_Studios]

I love this series you've made. I would absolutely watch a whole season-length nonfiction show here about Southeast Asian Cultures. This is so thoughtful.

[@Furore2323]

This whole project has been beautiful and enlightening, thank you to everyone involved.

[@jennyw5904]

When you talked about how Disney could have implemented SEA queer culture… ugh that would have been so amazing! I actually got giddy just thinking about it! Especially because homophobic non SEA people would have no idea of the implications, but queer SEA people would immediately understand! This video was super helpful though. I never considered how queerness in different countries could look different from what is portrayed in media. It’s crazy to realize that I’ve been looking at things through a white lens. It makes me want to learn about queerness across cultures TToTT

[@lilith3299]

this is one of the best video essays I've seen, and the way you and the people involved in the video presented the information and dealt with the delicate topics should be the standard for all essays like this. I had never thought about the issues brought up here and it has instilled a want for knowledge about SEA cultures in me, so thank you so much, keep doing this amazing work!

[@jesterfairy3845]

@jesncin your art is absolutely beautiful and so is Nadhir Nor's! I hope you keep creating more gorgeous illustrations and I hope your work can reach the mainstream someday.

[@DoraG99]

Just a quick word before I fully watch the video to say thank you for always having proper subtitles in your videos! ❤️

[@DetNate]

Was moved to tears, what a wonderful collaboration. So much history and beauty here. Very grateful to Gris for the "Memories of my Body" transcript as well.

[@bogmoth6899]

This is my obligatory Xiran outfit appreciation comment

[@dirtbird7407]

"Being palatable to everyone only serves to preserve the status quo" YESSS❤️, loved this video

[@aModernDandy]

I watched the film for the first time yesterday, knowing the first two videos existed, so I started watching them afterwards and then this one was posted while I was watching them! What amazing timing! Thank you for putting all these great presentations together and giving them access to your platform - fascinating topics to hear and learn about.