RC Hypercar Pt10

With all the electronics installed on the RC Hypercar, we can finally start to do some cool things like torque vectoring!
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#3dprinting #rc #racing

[@newmonengineering]

Would you consider doing a video dedicated to the breaking system. I would like to know more about how you stop and ABS that you have designed. You make awesome videos, and I love the projects. Keep up the great work

[@letsdosomething6691]

I’m blown away by how far this car has come. The pov cam was awesome too. Really shows how ridiculously sharp those turns are. 10Gs is insane. The average human passes out below 7Gs. The velcro on the battery made me laugh because I have that same problem with my rc boat. I’m amazed how durable the front splitter is. That thing was eating those rocks like they were Doritos lmao. You’ve basically already done all the stuff I was thinking of, and I have no idea where you could go from here. But it sounds like you’re not done so I’m very excited to see what’s next.

[@IndeterminateDesign]

Thanks! I have an entire box of broken front splitters. This last one is made from nylon and it just kind of bends now.

[@lumnati3234]

would love to see you racing this with a fpv camera on it

[@JustInvertedFpv]

There is a lot of image vibration to deal with that you just don't get when flying a drone with fpv. Every little bump in the surface causes camera shake. Also at higher speeds you get a bit of tunnel vision and need the camera mounted up quite high to still get any decent depth perception. High speed in a parking garage with tall walls to see was not too bad but outside in a parking lot the curbs are hard to make out until you are right on them. I tried it on my Vendetta with the camera mounted probably 6 inches above the body shell height with dji hd fpv cam. It was fun but challenging.

[@IndeterminateDesign]

I think FOV would be the only way to run this on a race course. It’s so hard to judged distances otherwise. Really this car needs a karting track.

[@IndeterminateDesign]

The vibration is pretty bad. I’m using a Runcam split 4K, which I think is an FPV camera. I had to mount it on foam though to get decent footage.

[@JustInvertedFpv]

@@IndeterminateDesign I started out trying to soft mount the camera with some dampening tpu mounts but it was undrivable via the fpv feed. The least shaky image I got was hard mounting an aluminum bar to a solid carbon fiber brace on the chassis. The bar stuck out through the roof of the car and the camera mounted at the top of the bar. The piece to secure the bar to the carbon brace was a beefy petg piece and the mount for the fpv camera to the bar was also petg. That limited the vibration to just what the car felt. All my soft mount attempts just amplified the vibration.

[@dfiedler78]

I don't normally leave comments on YT videos, however, I just had to say a huge thank you for taking the time and effort to put this together and share it with us. I've watched this entire series as well as your 2 f1 gearbox series. While I can't fully appreciate everything you did to get to this point, I have dabbled in coding around sim racing data loggers and just find all this stuff so fascinating. I think if I was 20 again, I would definitely try and pursue a career in motorsports myself.

[@IndeterminateDesign]

Thank you. I really appreciate this!

[@gp8666]

this is one of those rare cases where human limitations prevent a car from performing better, i cant even imagine trying to drive this on any track. maybe you could try it on a 1:8th scale pan car racing track or a asphalt touring car track with reduced power output and work your way up? would love to see it on a track, maybe even get a transponder system to compare lap times with some other rc car classes on some local track that has timing equipment?

[@IndeterminateDesign]

I will try to do this. I’m moving to a city that has a big indoor RC car track, so I’m excited.

[@ImPrather]

Ive had this exact idea burning hole in my brain. I will be following this very intently.

[@dave882]

Holy Christ that’s stable. Always see other fast cars just can’t turn at all. This is nuts

[@VKHORMIGUEROS]

Please keep making this type of content!!

[@IndeterminateDesign]

Thanks! I'm glad you enjoy it. I just do it for fun more than views or anything.

[@EngineeringAfterHours]

This thing is on rails!!! Awesome to see

[@IndeterminateDesign]

Thanks! I have way too much time in this project. I hope to get going on some land speed and other cool stuff.

[@porfzilla]

Neat motors in the wheel hubs, check out the mammuth works stealth rc car. they tried to get a product going but it seems not to have gone anywhere

[@lac3rbi]

What an amazing project!

[@Nixqy]

Excited to catch a video early!

[@scaleworksRC]

Very cool project. Torque vectoring is basically what you are doing when you change differential gear oil weights. It's interesting to see this being done electronically. This is a on whole other level, and the performance shows.

[@KacKLaPPeN23]

If you want the best of the best to give the car a spin, head to Finishline in Bakersfield in early November. They're holding the 10th scale TC world championships there from the 5th to 10th (10th being a spare day in case of delays). Maybe you can get permission to test the car there after the finals are over and have one of the best drivers in the world test it for you. The track might be a bit tight for that monster, but it's a unique chance to have some actual RC aliens test the thing.

[@vitalibazilevschi3595]

When I designed my version of torque vectoring model for my Master Degree I have used a mybrid between Akerman and Pithagoras derived equations :) my colleagues laught about the Idea but that worked smooth

[@IndeterminateDesign]

That's interesting. Someday I want to comeback and create a more sophisticated mathematical model like that. I'm curious to see how much difference it makes. I need a lab setup to test that out though. There's too much variability in the real world.

[@Liberty.Francis]

Amazing work as always! I see you are back in North Texas. We ended up moving to Tennessee. Looking forward to seeing you apply to these concepts to a land speed RC car.

[@IndeterminateDesign]

Thanks! I have a new land speed car design in the works already. I think I have some wheels that can do 200+. Tennessee is beautiful. Actually moving up to Colorado next week.

[@miguelpereira9939]

Again amazing job!!

[@user-wq4ke5qo8m]

Amazing results :)

[@TheCyclingGuru]

I have been following that project since day one, and I'm absolutely amazed by everything. For one, I really enjoy your deep dives on very complex matters and how easy you make this to understand. I absolutely love the fact you don't shy away from your mistakes, crashes at times and share how you pivot and improve from those events. Maybe as a suggestion, I would love to see a video of you driving this car on a proper track or a very large space to see how far you could take this car (with drone shots would be even better). But overall, this is great content, and great engineering work! Well done!

[@IndeterminateDesign]

Thanks. I find the process of making the video forces me to actually understand the topic a lot better. Yeah, I’d love to get some drone shots and race against other cars, maybe on a kart track. I also need someone who’s a much better driver than I am.

[@23lkjdfjsdlfj]

How do you feel about adding a motor on the back to steer the back wheels too? How much would that amplify the effectiveness of torque vectoring? Maybe you've already reached the limits of what your wheel material and airflow control can handle?

[@IndeterminateDesign]

I looked at lot at rear steer at one point. It doesn’t help as much as you would hope for the added weight. I did implement a small amount of passive steering in the lower rear control arm. The outside rear will tow out under load. This is something that many F1/F2 cars implement to help with stability.

[@wildgophers91]

hell yes

[@DgtalBreakz]

I haven even watched a second of this but YeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssSSSsssssss lets gooo!!! Edit: really cool stuff as always. Love how you piece together small feats of engineering and end up orchestrating an amazingly complex and beautiful project. All the best :)

[@IndeterminateDesign]

Hope you enjoyed it!

[@DgtalBreakz]

@@IndeterminateDesign Sure did!

[@GatorGlider]

Are you going to make the CAD models available for tinkering? I've been imagining doing a two part carbon fiber mold of the monocot.

[@IndeterminateDesign]

Initially, I’m only going to release the STEP file and the 3MFs. I’ll see where it goes from there.

[@bensonk]

Have you looked at using bidirectional dshot to talk to the ESC and get telemetry out of it? Betaflight uses that to get motor RPM and it seems to work pretty well.

[@IndeterminateDesign]

I’ve looked at it, the Arduino libraries that I found are still kind of rough. It would be great because I could update motor throttle several thousand times per second. I’m not sure if this is a function of the ESC or the firmware but the RPM is +/-200 with a 30ms delay. It’s good for balancing out the motors over time since they all respond slightly differently, but for traction control with the encoders I’m looking at +/- 3rpm.

[@bensonk]

@@IndeterminateDesign Ahhhh, that makes a ton of sense, yes. Bidi dshot telem is definitely not going to do what you need then. Adopting dshot, though, could definitely provide some gains in motor control, though, which would be super cool! It might be worth looking in the dshot code in betaflight or ardupilot if you're thinking about going that route.

[@N00SK1N]

What about shark fins?

[@erwinbliek1247]

Really nice project! I am trying something like this on a smaller scale, more like a formula student. I am using drone parts and thinking about the torque vectoring, do you think it would work a bit like differential thrust for a plane?(albeit a bit simpeler) I don't have enough time for writing al the code but it should be able to work, right?

[@erwinbliek1247]

I am also using fans for downforce(small drone motors and props) and am going to try a small aero package as well

[@IndeterminateDesign]

Differential thrust helps the car/plane steer tighter. It’s kind of a passive torque vectoring, it will help turn tighter but won’t increase handling performance.

[@toolscientist]

Amazing. Any estimate of how many hours you spent on this? 10k or 20k hours 😂. I still want to see you set up a smooth circular track and see how many sustained g's it can do.

[@IndeterminateDesign]

Oh, I really don’t want to count up the hours. Definitely over 1k. 😕 I’d love to take it inside a big convention center. I think on carpet this thing would be even better.

[@vercingetorige400]

what was your solution to fill the split line in the underside diffuser ? did you find some performance or stability?

[@IndeterminateDesign]

The split line in the diffuser doesn't affect the aero, it's very small but the dirt just makes it show up. Are you asking if I found more performance from the torque vectoring?

[@vercingetorige400]

@@IndeterminateDesign i thought sealing the split made a difference, but maybe i have seen too much f1 where they would seal even the driver lips to gain some advantage ;)

[@TheHypaaa]

So you're using the Avenger 2810 900kV motors correct? Do you think you could get away with smaller motors as well?

[@IndeterminateDesign]

I have the 2810s in the front and 2812s in the rear. I don’t think I could get away with much less because of the heat unfortunately. When the car was rear wheel drive it was very marginal from a heat perspective, with the front motors added it’s much better, but I still need the turbofan wheels to pull the heat. CFD shows the car will pull 600 watts at top speed.

[@TheHypaaa]

@@IndeterminateDesign I see, thanks! :)

[@TheHypaaa]

And one more question cause I'm thinking of building something similar perhaps: How are you dealing with dust or sand getting into the outrunners? Has that been a problem you've encountered so far?

[@IndeterminateDesign]

@@TheHypaaa The dust is a bit of an issue sometimes and I always clean out the motors after running. The bearings probably won't last as long, but they're not too hard to replace on these motors. One parking lot I ran in had magnetic rock dust. It was a nightmare to remove from the magnets and it destroyed one of the motors. It's definitely possible to create a dust shield so the air is only pulled in from top half of the wheel. The car moves so much air that everything gets packed with dust.

[@TheHypaaa]

@@IndeterminateDesign I feared that might be the case, but thanks!

[@king_br0k]

How long dose the battery last?

[@IndeterminateDesign]

I haven't ran it hard for an entire battery, but generally I get ~20 minutes from a 3300mah battery. Obviously, top speed is slower near the end of the run.

[@king_br0k]

@@IndeterminateDesign thanks, you have built a beast

[@gren509]

Cool ! Do Tesla do this ??

[@IndeterminateDesign]

I think they use brake based torque vectoring, except on the Model S Plaid which has 2 independent rear motors.