How Do Anti Spark Connectors Work & Do You Really Need Them?

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Genuine Amass XT90S Anti Spark Connectors: amzn.to/3NMZZ0E China Hobby Line LiPo Batteries: chinahobbyline.com/?ref=OBhS8UwFQN2dS-

[@ChrisMyers2000]

I replaced my eBike 14S battery connectors with XT90S connectors, and love them. I used to get huge sparks when connecting and it was wearing out the connectors. Whoever invented the anti spark connectors is a genius in my mind 😂

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Yes indeed 🙂👍

[@henryairconcepts2999]

For 14S, I would recommend people to use AS150 with built in anti spark. It can handle higher voltage and current better

[@ChrisMyers2000]

@@henryairconcepts2999 they are both rated at 500v. 14S is max 58.8v for almost all eBike batteries. At max I’m drawing 30A. XT90S are rated at 90A continuous. It’s already overkill. I’ve never had one fail or burn up. Stay within the range of the specs and you will be fine.

[@mlentsch]

@@ChrisMyers2000 The larger connector provides for less voltage drop over the connector - It might not be much in your application, but why not? Weight isn't a consideration - use large gauge wire and beefy connectors so the thing can "breath". I even use them on my larger FPV drones, though they draw well over 200A so I have more of a use case for them, but if you're after max power this is one of the "little things" that adds up. Cheers-

[@robertmoorej]

I work in utility scale energy storage. In my world This is called a "DC pre charge circuit". We basically use a resistor, a diode, and a fuse and or contactor (sometimes both)...to go "Around" the main DC contactor to bring the DC bus voltage up softly. In Some of our systems, the pre charge circuit stays closed all the time. In others, closing the pre charge circuit before the main DC contactor is part of a startup sequence. You could actually build this yourself as well, by using a 2nd connector pigtail that could even be smaller... with a resistor in parallel to the main xt connector. This might also provide an opportunity for a more resilient resistor or more appropriately sized for the "control power constant load" to prevent the heating you described. That might also be more complicated than it needs to be. I guess it would depend on the application or use case.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

@robertmoorej "build this yourself as well, by using a 2nd connector pigtail" Yep, that is exactly what many in the hobby did (and some still do) before these anti-spark connector options were introduced (XT90S, XT150S & QS8-V2). As you surmised, it was not an ideal solution in many model aviation applications where space is usually at a premium, the hassle of having two connectors to worry about (4 in HV power systems), the odd time forgetting to plug in the "big boy" and the often occurring entangled mess of the smaller pig-tails when having multiple battery packs packed in our field box/bag. These single type anti-spark connectors offer a low cost, low weight, hassle free elegant solution to those issues for those of us who decide to use them 🙂

[@ComplicatedStuff]

Hybrid or EV cars have this pre-charge circuit as well. My Toyota Hybrid has a relais with a resistor parallel to the main (positive) contactor. At power up, if listening closely I can hear two clicks. First the pre-charge relais (and negative contactor) and shortly after the positive contactor.

[@Drd4all]

This is a very elegant solution, the best off the self there is to be honest. I replaced all my XT60 connectors with these ... Too bad they dont make them in XT60 format.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Might be because XT60's are generally not used in higher voltage & current applications; plus size is likely also a limiting factor trying to fit a resistor inside plus having a split ring in the smaller and shorter 3mm bullet sleeve?

[@Forol1561]

they get used in most escooters with voltages bellow 60... some 36V scooters even use XT30.......

[@tyllurius]

True, sadly no XT60 with that feature on market, main reason is that it's difficult to integrate a reasonable sized resistor AND the mechanics in the limited space of a XT60... and keep the costs down. So I took a common XT60 and fitted a 1/2W THT resistor in there, in a manner that spring formed part of its legs touches the counterpart first.. kinda fiddly, but ... works! No more sparks on my 6S XT60 packages :) downside you have to do it for every connector :/

[@MiesvanderLippe]

@@Forol1561 the number is the peak amp rating. All the XT connectors can do 500V DC.

[@mlentsch]

@@Rchelicopterfun I'm sure it's a size problem, but I'd sure like if they made something AS in the xt60 size - mine spark like crazy on only 6S...

[@ronaldonogueira74]

I stopped flying helis abot 10 years ago but I see that you still keep uploading the highest quality technical info in your channel, congrats John.

[@nomusicrc]

Great video no loud introduction no music playing while you're talking very informative three thumbs up

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Glad you liked it

[@wolfy4664]

This is the easiest way of preventing sparks that i've seen so far, no need for mosfets or complicated stuff that also uses more space

[@Stelios.Posantzis]

5:40 So simple yet so ingenious! Thanks for sharing this!

[@Rchelicopterfun]

You bet 🙂

[@marcfruchtman9473]

Now that connector design is really clever! Thank you for the explanation and review.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Thanks back for watching 👍

[@GadgetReviewVideos]

KZbin suggested video probably because of electronics, but I dont run high voltage RC stuff. I’m sure they work as it’s just a pre-charge resistor, same thing we do with high voltage batteries for solar systems on BMS’s that dont have them built in. My only concern looking at them is that the negative port part should come out just as far as the resistive side or it still might cause a bit of a spark. So it would be important to line them up as straight as possible when plugging them in. Since I know XT connectors can be on a slight angle when they are first plugged in.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

The further inset negative sleeve is purposely engineered that way to reduce pin to pin short potential. For RC applications which these are primarily sourced for, we often have several to many LiPo packs in our field boxes/bags with not only other connectors of different sizes and types bouncing around in close proximity, but often the odd conductive tool or part. - No, you don't get sparks with these and they work exceptionally well for the simple design and the intended application. Self alignment properties of Genuine Amass XT30, 60 & 90's are excellent compared to other RC connector types in their respective current ranges - a non issue.

[@joshlemons3662]

Great simple solution! Electric cars have a similar precharge circuit they use before engaging the main pack contactors, helps prolong contactor life.

[@Lawrence-uw6cs]

This is a great idea! Almost a must for a hv setup! I used to just plug in a 3s then 6 then 8 lessening the spark charging the caps.

[@soundspark]

Pretty smart to have the capacitors sticking out the ends of the ESC so they don't have to be baked by the heat they invariably make.

[@Vulporium]

Thank you for the informative video! I hadn't seen these little connectors until now. I'm happy to have guessed how they worked right before you showed that part. xD Very simple design.

[@Sir-Dexter]

2.41...Och ....Nice work Many Thanks Will Keep eye on ....

[@todayonthebench]

To a small degree one could ask why the ESC doesn't have a precharge circuit built in. But thinking of the application, space is a premium. So "just adding in" a precharge resistor and a suitably large transistor/relay sadly isn't really an option. But these anti spark connectors seems like a wonderful thing to see. I have pondered something similar for other connector types before (since it is honestly really simple), but nice to see one implemented in practice. In regards to the inrush creating the spark. It likely isn't all that good for the capacitors. But I guess it is fairly negligible compared to other sources of wear/aging. For an example heat dissipated as they suppress our ripple likely causes more degradation over time than the few sparks on power up. In this case, the connector seems like the weak link as far as this inrush is concerned.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Refreshing to see common sense and critical thinking being used in a YT comment - appreciated! 👍

[@todayonthebench]

​@@Rchelicopterfun Thanks. I try my best to be nuanced and at least try to stay on topic. And most importantly actually watch the whole video to not be needlessly redundant. (even if I do type up my comment as I watch, but amend it when needed.)

[@Cynthia_Cantrell]

As an electrical engineer, I can tell you that the surge current will not significantly degrade electrolytic caps. You mentioned that you were replacing connectors every season because they were damaged. I suspect you did NOT have to replace electrolytic caps for any of these units. If you tried to use tantalum caps for this application however, you would quickly learn that thay do NOT handle inrush currents well. They are great for applications where you are really cramped for space and need a lot of capacitance, as tantalums are typically much smaller than other caps with similar farad and voltage ratings. However, we always put an inrush current limiter device or circuit in front of them, and let voltage come up slowly, rather than being abruptly connected to the full operating voltage. If the anti-spark connectors are expensive or hard to get, it would only take a few parts and a few grams to insert an inrush limiter before your electrolytics.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Yep - pretty much what other EE's have told me & why in-rush never bothered me all these years; other than prematurely destroying the connector pins & sleeves. As you surmised, some folks in the hobby use/d two smaller connectors soldered in parallel with the male and female main power connectors that they add an inline resistor to do the same thing. The small connectors with the inline resistor are plugged in first to charge the caps and then the main connectors are plugged in afterward. It works, but it's a hassle dealing with two sets of connectors, especially with the entanglement of wiring with a dozen or so LiPo packs tossed in your field box/bag. Also witnessed a few forget to plug in the main connector afterward. You can imagine what happened then when power is applied, pulling up to 100A or more through 16 AWG, a 1/4 or 1/2 watt resistor and the small pre-charge connectors rated at 5-10 Amps. 🔥 Fortunately, these anti-spark connectors eliminate all those issues, don't cost much and are easy to source these days. Thanks for the helpful comment 🙂

[@asificam1]

@@Rchelicopterfun With some connectors using a 3rd wire, it might be possible to use this sense wire and some clever circuitry in the ESC to do this silently without the need for these connectors or the pigtails... getting the ESC makers to do this would be the ideal since they could even do this without the need of any 3rd sense wire, just a small time delay on power-up that prevents the caps from being energized right away. Plus, it would make this work even on regular connectors... getting the ESC makers to spare a fraction of a gram and a fraction of a penny though, that will be hard.

[@ABaumstumpf]

A long time ago we used to see people do 1 of 2 things: 1 - Having 2 connectors - one with a resistor 2 - Large coils inline on the battery side With 2 connectors sometimes people used the same connector twice - so you could still use the wrong one and get sparks, or use the wrong for charging. And coils... they need to be big to really reduce the sparks.

[@SianaGearz]

Haha you can kill the sparks with a small coil but then you burn it in use so well that's a little self-defeating. :D

[@dylanwhite6539]

This is the main reason I avoided switching to ic5 type connectors. I’m just gonna switch to QS8 for my x trucks and xt90 anti spark for everything else.

[@warrengray610]

Greetings, very good video explaining,, I only wish I'd found it earlier as I went and designed a pulse width modulation method of soft starting/ pre charge for the capacitance inrush,, that method works well but more components whereas this solution is simple yet effective! Thanks mister.

[@conorstewart2214]

I would question whether using PWM would actually work. PWM works by just switching it on and off very fast so whilst you may lower the average current the instantaneous current (the current at the instant the first pulse occurs) will still be very high, likely as high as the inrush current would be so basically you would still have the same inrush current unless you added resistors for current limiting. It may still stop it from sparking but that could just be because it delays the inrush current from the instant an electrical connection is made when the battery is plugged in until the connection is better when the first pulse occurs. Just stopping sparking doesn’t mean you stopped the inrush current. Have you looked at the inrush current on an oscilloscope? That would be the only way to tell if you actually managed to lower the inrush current. Soft starters like that are generally used for motors where the inductance of the motor plays an important role in the soft starting process. Think about motors and LEDs, if you apply PWM to a motor it will go to a portion of its maximum speed, if you apply PWM to an LED it will go to its maximum brightness for part of the time, these are not the same effects, especially not electrically. It would be similar when soft starting a motor vs a capacitor, the motors inductance would smooth out and limit the current but you wouldn’t get that with a capacitor, it would be the same affect as if you just connected and disconnected the capacitor very fast since there is nothing to limit the current and because of that you would still get the inrush current. To limit the inrush current you need to add something that would actually limit the current, not just switch it on and off very fast, that means adding either resistance or inductance.

[@viettrungphan9770]

Thanks for explanation, I'm using it in my RC car but don't know how it work.

[@leapnlarry]

Turn the lights out to see the sparks. Larry

[@Fran11784]

Good tech stuff. Thanks John

[@williamb.9110]

Great video John. I've always wondered about these connectors

[@mshepard2264]

Its a pre-charge circuit thats clever. electric cars and trains ect have pre-charge circuits but its a big relay with a resistor. The spark high inrush current shortens the life of the caps also. On larger caps it can rupture the cap.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Excellent comment! Thanks 👍

[@skip1835]

excellent explanation - thanks!

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Glad it was helpful

[@theelmonk]

what's under the section of green filler that runs across the pins ? Seems an odd place to put the actual resistor but maybe there isn't space alongside the cut pin.

[@rolls_8798]

I don't have any experience with RC. Why not have a proper power switch on the ESC board or at least inline on the cable? Wouldn't this be much better suited to handling the power-on demands repetitively without failing? do the currents in play make such a switch impractical or cost-prohibitive? seems like it's the hobby itself that is cost-prohibitive for most people lol

[@Rchelicopterfun]

No; in fact an inline switch would be much worse. 1. As you correctly surmised, a switch rated at 100 Amps plus would be Costly, Huge & Heavy . Not something that would even work in most RC aircraft applications where space in limited and weight is the enemy. 2. The pitting issue and increased resistance would move to the hidden & concealed contacts within the switch with no way to visually inspect their condition during your pre-flight. 3. A switch introduces another failure point & and source of increase resistance and ripple voltage potential. 4. The inrush current would still occur. Nothing is as robust and works as well in high current RC aviation applications as a simple connector with as short and direct a power path and lead length between the battery and ESC with as few failure points as possible. This has been proven time and time again over many years now. Guess that's why all the electrical engineers and manufacturers who design and evolve these systems continue to use this connectivity method. Incidentally, I can name at least 50 hobbies and pastimes just off the top of my head that cost way more than RC of any discipline, some by orders of magnitude. In fact, getting into RC has never been so accessible to so many worldwide. What used to cost a full month's wages to get into the hobby back in the 80's when I started, now costs a day's or less wages. That's affordable for most people with modest disposable incomes.

[@rolls_8798]

@@Rchelicopterfun Thanks for the reply, those were some good points and answered my questions. I didn't realise the scale of power these things used. I was figuring closer to 50W myself. Simplicity is king, as an engineer-in-training, I still get that (don't worry, there is hope for our technological future). It helps when most of my experience comes from fixing things that have failed, you get a good idea of what makes a reliable design then. That being said, I still like redundancy and mechanical shutoffs which is why a power switch appeals to me. Just making light about the cost mostly, I'll happily spend many times as much on my car Edit: the majority of the design around spring-detented switches (especially ac wall switches) is often around specifically limiting arcing and sparks. but your points still stand and I see why they're not a good option.

[@gd.ritter]

Do they make anti-spark XT60?

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Nope, housing is a little too small.

[@atomicskull6405]

If you need something like XT90S only bigger QS8 is basically the same thing but with 8mm connectors instead of 5.5mm

[@henryairconcepts2999]

From my experience, overtime the resistor eventually burnt out depending on the voltage you use. It can handle 6S for a while, but over 6S, it burns out faster.

[@tookitogo]

Then the resistor isn’t suitably rated.

[@conorstewart2214]

Just judging based on looks the resistor in the connector will be tiny, likely not much bigger than a common 0.25 or 0.5 W rated resistor. The instantaneous power across a 6 Ohm resistor when connected to a 6S battery which will be the case right at the instant electrical contact is made works out to be 106 W. Now obviously that power isn’t sustained for very long but is likely much higher than the resistor would normally be rated for if it was used in any other application. Even if somehow it was a 2 W rated resistor then it is still used far beyond its specifications right at that moment. Also if you are a little slow in plugging in, any power your quad tries to use (FC, VTX, motor beeps, etc) will be going through that resistor and again will likely be above its ratings which will just cause it to degrade.

[@ryancheesman400]

It would be nice if amass sold a male version of this. That was you only have to do the swap on the model / esc side once.

[@mitchellstrobbe7779]

I think making the pin split like that would be much more difficult than the split ring unfortunately

[@JACK-wh6jl]

XCLNT PRESENTATION ! ( i had-never investigated the reason for (no-spark occurring...) & was pleasantly surprised to learn such a basic principle on your show. You are an XCLNT COMMENTATOR & enjoy your videos! thank you JACK😇 😛🎯⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️👍🏻🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Glad you enjoyed it & thanks for watching 🙂

[@marcusone1]

Would love to see your testing of the CNHL batteries. did you get a bunch of them? I have one, and its like 60% of its rated capacity (4s 8500, but runs like 5000mah).

[@Rchelicopterfun]

I purchased just those two (6S 5000 mah G+) to try them out both as single and in 12S series format. So far very impressed. Been flying them pretty much exclusively in two different 80mm EDF jets (6S) and a scale 800 EC130 heli (12S). They peak just over 116A in both jets during full throttle vertical climbs, exactly the same as the 6S 5100 Gens Ace do, so discharge performance is good so far. They barely get warm (same as the Gens Ace), and I get the exact same flight times as I do with the 5100 mah Gens Ace packs always coming down at about 3.78V per cell (22.7V pack) open circuit voltage (about 70% discharged). They are also lighter than the Gens ace so vertical performance on both EDF's does seem to be a tad better (subjective of course). Charging confirms very realistic capacity on both of them. IR has remained low and stable with no noticeable increase. Have roughly 15 flights on them now. Want to get a minimum of 30-40 flights before sharing any opinions. Sorry to hear your experiences have not been as good. What series of CNHL packs did you get? I was told by other fliers only the G+ line are worth getting, so that's what I purchased going on their positive anecdotal experiences.

[@marcusone1]

@@Rchelicopterfun I just realized I have the HV version, so I'm going to test again after charging to 4.35V and see (as they are 120C). Thanks for the great response, I'll check out the G+ line next then and see.

[@ATVHOLICS]

I used to use these but didn’t like them & swapped to AS150. I take it they are a recent thing in USA?

[@lunaticfpv17]

Recent? No.

[@ooltimu]

What about using a power switch? Wouldn't that prevent sparks on connectors?

[@Rchelicopterfun]

The problem would just move to the more costly switch contacts, that you can't inspect for pitting and the capacitors would still experience high inrush current. Moreover, a switch or contactor rated at 100 Amps plus, would be costly, huge and heavy - too big and heavy to be practical for an RC aircraft application where space is at a premium and weight is the enemy. The best, most robust that has the lowest ripple potential solution for high current electric powered RC applications has, and remains to be, a single connector with as short a wire routing between the battery and ESC as practical.

[@accidentalengineering]

I think maybe inrush current protection should be the responsibility of the ESC, it wouldn't be too difficult to implement on its PCB.

[@conorstewart2214]

How would it not be too difficult to add? Currently the caps are just connected straight to the power leads, a very simple connection. To add inrush current limiting to the caps you would need to add a number of other components like a resistor and a large switch, either a relay or high current mosfet which would need to be rated for at least the maximum ESC current and would just waste energy to heat.

[@thecrazykartbyAJ]

One question please: My batteries have no antispark line but i do have QS8-S antispark connectors from the battery to the ESC. From the ESC there is a small antispark line (black thin cable) coming out. Do you recommend me still soldering the antispark line from the esc to the negative side of the antispark connector? Thank you!

[@Rchelicopterfun]

I have never heard of an "anti spark line (black thin cable)" coming out of any ESC so I have no idea what it actually is or how you would wire it. Contact the ESC manufacture tech line, or follow the connectivity instructions that came with your specific ESC.

[@thecrazykartbyAJ]

@@Rchelicopterfunthank you for the answer!

[@SianaGearz]

Yep if you can avoid super high current initial charging on the capacitors that's fundamentally good for their health. OK they can vaguely take it, they should stay healthy enough for quite a long time anyway, but you do reduce the probability of failure somewhat. Gradual charging restores the forming of the capacitor while rapid charging can cause it to be pierced. Will any of us see their caps fail due to that in our lifetimes? Who knows...

[@m_w_8175]

If charging make sure the plug is all the way in,so there is no charging through the resistor..

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Yep.

[@garymurphy5133]

hi john,miss the rc contact

[@deltacx1059]

Bit odd to me but im not a rc guy, but a power switch would eliminate the reed for special connectors all together, a pre charge resistor circuit can also help the problem. (Which is almost what those connectors are)

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Not odd at all if you understand the intended application. 1. A 100 Amp plus power switch or contactor is simply too big and too heavy. Weight is the enemy in RC aircraft and space is generally at a premium. 2. The less contact points between the battery and ESC the better. Every connection introduces a failure point and more resistance and potentially more ripple. It's proven many times over, a single and simple connector remains to be the best and most robust choice.

[@AgentOffice]

Still big inrush

[@nfavor]

John, why are these on the battery side and not the ESC side? I like the idea but think it would of been better to be on the ESC side so you don't have to add it to every battery.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Short danger - that's why. The male XT90's (the ones always on the ESC side) have exposed pins that are not insulated and thus have a high short potential if anything conductive were to accidentally or intentionally inserted into the end of the connector. The lowest short potential connector, regardless of type, is the ALWAYS the one that goes on the battery side for safety reasons. I cover this in detail on my RC Battery Connector page on my website: www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-battery-connector.html

[@nfavor]

@@Rchelicopterfun I could be missing something but why can't one of the pins on the ESC side have two parts (like the one socket on the battery side) and move the resistor / anti-spark to the ESC side?

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Yes, you're missing how split/sprung bullet pins function. It would be next to impossible or at least very costly to have a sprung male bullet pin divided into two sections and still maintain sufficient sprung force along its entire length for maximum contact area and long cycle usage. In short, if it were possible and cost effective, the design and electrical engineers at Amass would have done it. They designed it the best, most practical, most robust and most economical way possible and that is to have the split ring in the female (bullet sleeve) connector on the battery side. Not to mention the other obvious cost saving factor that you can still use the same charge harnesses and paraboards that all come with male XT90's to charge through the female XT90 on the the battery without having to update them all too if/when switching over to the anit-spark versions. Common sense design that is backward compatible to boot - brilliant engineering.

[@nfavor]

@@Rchelicopterfun It's done with headphone type plugs and they have higher cycle counts than our batteries. They're even smaller, so potentially harder to make durable but that design has lasted for many decades. I guess we just see things differently or maybe you're locked in. I appreciate the replies and content John!

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Comparing a tiny and simplistic, unsprung, low voltage head phone jack that is only passing a few mA of current to a large, high current, high voltage sprung bullet pin that capable of passing over 100Amps of current. Good one 😄 How could all the RC connector manufacturers miss something so simple? Obviously we see things very differently. I see them from an electrical physics & engineering stand point knowing what works and what doesn't when dealing with high current loads in connectors & contacts. And yes, I'm most certainly locked in... to science & critical thinking. Here's a thought, seeing that I obviously don't have a clue; why don't you contact Amass, Anderson, ProTek, all the manufacturers of high current DC connectors to pass your "phono jack plug" idea their way? No doubt they'll all be so impressed that they never thought of it themselves in all these years, you'll have multiple job offers as their lead design engineer and you'll make a fortune. Better yet, do some proper research on "high current connector designs" so you too will know what works in these high current applications and what doesn't.

[@SpeedyGwen]

one of the reasons why am scared of getting bigger batteries is that spark, like, it makes noize and its really scarry and am super scared that it might put something on fire, I prefer when it goes in place silentely so its good that anti sparks connectors exist

[@MiesvanderLippe]

People have put a pre-charge resistor on a separate lead for a while. This is more convenient.

[@msromike123]

Magic.

[@eyemastervideo]

Bullet connectors on my 2S batteries, every time I plug them it sparks. I wondered what did that. We don't use connectors on racing buggies.

[@conorstewart2214]

Why don’t you use connectors? If you are already using bullet connectors then what difference does a plastic housing around them make other than making it easier to use and safer?

[@Lion_McLionhead]

Connectors are getting bigger than the batteries.

[@mshepard2264]

its a lot of amps

[@chuckmaddison2924]

Just short the battery before you connect. No more sparks 😊 Appalachian logic.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

👍 Hehehe 😅 No more battery either to worry about afterward.

[@devicemodder]

I use the orange LED fixture connectors for my batteries. Why? Im an electrician and get them free from work as we cut em off and dont use them.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

What model # and current rating? The Ideal ones I've used (model 102) are rated at 6 Amps. Models like this where this type of high current connector are used will draw over 100 Amps. The 800 here peaks at 150 Amps.

[@ironfoot1938]

Wouldn't an inductor do the same thing, just better? Like not wasting power if it was pluged in half way.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Nope. Increased weight, space and huge amounts of ripple voltage would be generated along with increased resistance. 100 Amps plus - that would require a huge inductor coil. RC applications, especially aviation where space is limited, weight is the enemy, as direct and short a current path between battery and ESC, and overall robustness are critical factors. For this, nothing beats a simple, effective high current carrying connector with as few points of failure as possible. This has been proven time after time over many years now.

[@volodumurkalunyak4651]

Where that 'not wasted power will go'? It will momentarily raise output voltage way above battery voltage and then lower it back down and again raise, lower, raise resulting in oscillations. You essentially create a LC series resonance circuit. That is quite bad as first of those voltage oscilations are going way higher than battery voltage.

[@ironfoot1938]

@@volodumurkalunyak4651 Correct me if I'm wrong, but there would only be a spike of voltage when you unplug it. If you plug it in, as you have DC, you only get a delayed voltage. If you unplug it the saved magnetic field will release a spike. As for the not wasted power I was referring to the case where you don't have it plugged in correctly which leads to problems with the resistor, but shouldn't with an inductor.

[@volodumurkalunyak4651]

@@ironfoot1938 of course not. When you plug it in and there is inductor instead of a resistor, then battery + capacitor bank on a ESC and that inductor form an LC resonant circuit. Lighter version of that (RLC resonant circuit, R is important as L is way smaller -> then R becomes important) happens without anything - L becomes wire inductances R - wire resistance + battery ESR, C - battery + capacitors on the ESC. When you add a bunch of inductance as a inductor -> LC resonance goes way down on frequency and R needed to have oscilations damped goes way up

[@rudolphfranken1446]

come on John< try to bring back the RC Helicopters spirit.. we miss you ❗️😉🚁

[@Rchelicopterfun]

"Bring back the RC Helicopter spirit..." What are you talking about? This is an RC helicopter related video is it not? If your unclear comment however is related to lack of RC flying videos over the past year, then perhaps you've missed the important news I put out over a year ago on my website, relaying that *MAAC lost its Transport Canada exemptions* last year meaning I can longer legally put up RC flying videos on KZbin as that would be considered "commercial RPAS operations". This requires a commercial Transport Canada RPAS operator certificate not to mention the fact such commercial RPAS activity is restricted from my MAAC flying site area/site. Of course if your "RC helicopter Sprit" means something else, please clarify.

[@Drd4all]

​@@RchelicopterfunI totally missed this news John, but it seems really sad to say the least ... I mean, damn, I'm lost for words ..

[@rudolphfranken1446]

@@Rchelicopterfun Hello John., among other things., Through your channel, brought me back to flying, this time helicopter flying.. I also ordered your ebooks., and followed your flying lesson videos and shared them with other enthusiastic people who wanted to fly.. I did indeed miss that the rules changed in Canada., so I was happy after a long time, to see your explanation of the anti spark plug yesterday.., And I hoped to briefly talk you into what people like me, miss your 🚁 videos.. < That is meant as a compliment., (without rules) Your detailed explanation and calm speech, works inspiring for many.. Thank you for that.. Mvgr Ruud Franken From Nederland 🇳🇱

[@rudolphfranken1446]

@@Drd4all That's what I missed too; Missed John's inspiring KZbin related movies about RC Helicopters., thought he stopped doing that by himself 🥹

[@dylanwhite6539]

I don’t think rapid charging of caps is an issue, the main purpose of caps is they store charge in a more mechanical way which shouldn’t be damaged by rapid charging and discharging. They also take on so little wattage that it’s not really a concern imo. That being said it certainly doesn’t hurt anything to slow it down a bit.

[@ABaumstumpf]

"in a more mechanical way" ??? They dont do anything mechanical. But yeah they are designed for high currents - and still the inrush is not good for them either - but that is so rare with how few times you actually connect batteries it does not really matter.

[@dylanwhite6539]

@@ABaumstumpf it’s mechanical in the sense that they essentially just hold the electronics rather than a chemical reaction occurring, that’s what makes them different to batteries

[@ABaumstumpf]

@@dylanwhite6539 "it’s mechanical in the sense that they essentially just hold the electronics rather than a chemical reaction occurring" This is so bad - it fails to even be just wrong. I mean first of: No, they do not "hold electronics" - did you mean electrons? Cause every part of electronics holds electrons (and no, you do not get more or less of them in a given part. What makes them different is that, like other capacitors, they store a charge-imbalance directly, rather than in chemical for like typical batteries does. That means they can handle more power at the expense of having lower energy density. So in neither case there is ANYTHING "mechanical".

[@LarsPW]

(1) Electrolyte capacitors do not like to get shorted out. You should always use a small resistor for this. (2) I think it would be an obligation to those who manufacture capacitor banks or brushless drivers to ensure that they get initialized correctly without damaging other equipment. Model railroaders use decoders with capacitor interfaces which can load its capacitors carefully enough not to throw the overload protection of their central units or boosters. These type of decoders can detach its capacitors when it comes to "program" (= to configure) the decoder on the programming track. On the programming track the decoder gives information by a small current flow to get detected and decoded by the central unit or another programming device. Otherwise capacitors should be used at least with a combination of a small resistor and a diode in parallel, but this can prevent the decoder from any reading or configuration on the programming track. Practically you can do mostly "programming on main", but when things do not behave as expected you need the ability to read out the informations the decoder actually got.

[@sarahdaviscc]

Surely that 6ohm resistor for the initial ring will provide greater resistance than the pitting. I would assume it would realistically be negligible but 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Not sure I understand? Unless I'm missing something in your comment, yes, that resistor is doing exactly that, proving greater resistance so the current going to charge up the capacitors (inrush current) is reduced, thus reducing the sparks/arcs that pit the contacts. A healthy, low ESR electrolytic capacitor at zero voltage potential (uncharged) is essentially a dead short when the voltage inrush hits, so using Ohms law, 50 V/6 Ohms = 8.3 Amps = very little current and thus no arcing. If we do the same calculation with very little resistance (say under 0.2 Ohms) which would be typical in a regular healthy RC connector 50 V / 0.2 Ohms = 250 Amps. ⚠

[@alf3071]

the resistor is engaged just at the beginning, after you completely connect the connectors then it's a direct connection like normal

[@cccmmm1234]

Certainly high currents into electrolytic caps won't do them any good, but caps are a lot better then 20 or 30 years ago. I would prefer to slow charge caps. Why abuse/stress the equipment when there are alternatives?

[@sparks991]

XT-## fittings are very tight and wiggling them back and forth connecting them can cause multiple sparks. Can't be good on the electronics.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Genuine Amass XT connectors are some of the easier to plug/unplug out there in their respective current ratings. Not that it matters because you don't get multiple sparks with any ESC connector due to the simple fact the instant you get that first spark, the capacitors are charged and there is no more voltage potential difference between them and the battery.

[@Fly_High_FPV]

Replace em if that's the case, they shouldn't be sparking after the initial connection. If there is that much wiggle in an XT, it's beat up and ready to be replaced

[@pheelix-]

Anderson Powerpoles > XT. Can easily remove the connector from the housing and clean them.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Can't clean *pitting* off any connector surface, and once pitting starts, further degradation is accelerated regardless of connector type (yes, I've used Anderson PPs as well).

[@philliplopez8745]

A DPST snap action switch wired into the toys power lead would be an easier fix .

[@Rchelicopterfun]

How so? Perhaps you are unaware that models like this will pull well over 100 Amps (this particular 800 helicopter can peak upwards of 150A). A 100+ Amp rated DPST toggle switch as you likely know is very large. It would weigh a lot (the enemy of all RC aircraft) and cost a lot. Fundamentally however, a switch wouldn't fix a thing. The sparking/pitting issue as capacitor inrush occurs would just move to the switch contacts necessitating regular switch replacement instead of low cost connector replacement. An even bigger problem with a switch/toggle is this contact degradation is hidden with no way to visually inspect condition during your pre-flight. A switch of any sort is introducing an unnecessary failure point in any RC power system. Certainly far from easier, won't fix a thing and is failure prone to boot. It's precisely why we never use a switch between the LiPo packs and ESC, especially on larger models with high current demands.

[@conorstewart2214]

I don’t think you know much about these if you are referring to them as “toys”. On a lot of different kinds of RC vehicle, especially flying ones, it can easily draw 100+ A at times through the power connector for enough time to cause problems for improperly rated components, that’s far beyond the capabilities of basic switches and well into the range of large, heavy and expensive switches.

[@dirtrider88]

so without capacitors it wouldnt spark???? also your resistor demonstration isnt exactly real world use. in the real world you just shove the connectors together, quickly. it still provides protection if you just jam them together quickly? how long does it take the caps to charge up through the resistor? hopefully milliseconds. 9:12 i feel like most people arent gonna plug them in like that. you paused for literally over 3 seconds between when the esc got power and you shoved it in the rest of the way.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

It's very real world. The caps charge up almost instantaneously. Doesn't matter how fast or how slow you plug the connector in. No one could ever plug one in fast enough that the caps wouldn't be fully charged by the time the male pin slid past the resistive ring. We are talking milliseconds (not microseconds) for the voltage to equalize. As I said in the video, a discharged electrolytic cap behaves like a dead short until the voltage potential equalizes and this happens very fast with such low resistive values (apx 6 Ohms), almost as fast as having no resistor in fact; again milliseconds which you can plot on an oscilloscope. Yes, the electrolytic caps are the cause for the current inrush; no caps or failed caps, no spark and the ESC will crap out shortly afterward.

[@Razordon]

We like your videos and would like to invite you to review our helicopters. Are you interested?😃

[@alf3071]

they should have made them like this from the beginning by default

[@conorstewart2214]

That’s very easy to say looking back. Should we also say that they should have just made houses out of brick, steel and glass as the default and not bothered with wooden huts like humans did in the beginning?

[@arosnett]

Hmm... spending 20% of the contact area to fix pitting on the 1% contact area of the edge? Nah not impressed😂

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Has little impact on maximum current rating considering it's the bottom half of the sprung male pin that produces the majority of the surface contact area & tension within in the sleeve. Certainly has less impact than having the top 20% plus of both pins and sleeves pitted and burnt. Don't know where you pulled the 1% of pitted area from partner? Certainly not the real world. Even when just the tip of the male pit is pitted and burnt, it begins reducing contact area all the way down the sleeve and is cumulative in nature. I've experienced XT90 & EC5 sleeves burnt & pitted right to the base on most 12S & 14S power systems. The example shown in the video was at least 50% down the sleeve. Then there is the elimination of the inrush current to the power caps, but the debate is still out on that one. Most electrical engineers & technicians will agree high inrush has a negative impact on overall electrolytic capacitor life/electrolyte breakdown, but it's likely not something we have to worry about in the grand scheme.

[@Rckid28]

You get spark without the caps on 6s quad… what’s the deal? Has nothing to do with caps, it’s just the energy jumping over

[@Rchelicopterfun]

You do realize that *ALL ESCs* have power input electrolytic capacitors in them. If they didn't, the MOSFETs wouldn't last. Quads have 4 ESCs so they will have at least 4 power input caps (one in each) that are contributing to that inrush current when you plug in the LiPo, but likely more depending on the power ratings of the ESCs. Many quad ESC's don't have the caps sticking out the ends because they are lower power and thus not thermally challenged, but they are in there, rest assured. "Just the energy jumping over" - ya, over to what - the 4 or more *power input caps, that's what.*

[@darklore7566]

Or just put a reistor on the capistors then you dont need one 🤷‍♂️

[@Rchelicopterfun]

@@darklore7566 wrong

[@conorstewart2214]

If you “just” do that then you limit all current going to and from the capacitors and likely the current going to the ESC too, not just the inrush current. That then defeats the point of using capacitors since they can’t deliver the current they need and could mean that you can’t deliver the needed current to the ESCs either. It would also need to be a big resistor to handle continuous use at those currents rather than just handling the inrush current like the resistor in the connector needs to.