RC Helicopter Tail Rotor Setup

[@Rchelicopterfun]

As I clearly stated in the video - this tail rotor configuration is by far the most common you will run across, but there are always a few exceptions to this conventional/normal layout. Ie. spin direction is might be reversed, pitch slider direction might be reversed and side of boom the tail rotor is on might be reversed. In short - always check your manual for correct operation. The exact operation principles demonstrated here of course remain constant regardless of those variables. Want to learn more about the hobby of RC helicopters? Please visit my website: www.rchelicopterfun.com

[@hamonikolian5391]

Rc chinook helicopter not straght go it around

[@bloodnocka]

Thanks John, important principles for newbies. Your ebooks and website are a godsend in a world of bad information. I maintain the real thing, and the physics and principle of operation is the same however there is still much to learn when starting out in this area of the hobby. Keep up the good work, I value your videos. Stuart, Australia.

[@ahmadsodiqazami8139]

omg u just helped me a lot n potentially save me a lot of money from crashes. This help me understands why my helic is spinning all over the place just because of my tail rotor spinning in diferrent direction than it should ! thank you so muchh man

[@declde]

This fixed my issues! I bought a second hand Titan E325 but the previous owner, who only had it for a few weeks, thought it was too hard to fly and just couldn't do it. I took it home with me and I had some trouble as well. I switched the rudder in the other direction as it was reversed but still couldn't fly. Reaching the end of your video, you mentioned the gyro. I saw it was reversed! I flipped the switch in the other direction and tadaa! A stable helicopter. This is going to be a fun start of a new hobby :)

[@melvinquinene4778]

Hi John, your tutorial here really clarified why the tail on my xlp 550 wants to whip wildly to the right, I had just made some repairs, did not unplug any leads to either the reciever or flybarless unit, and when I spooled up for a test flight I was like whoa, hold it cowboy, the tail wanted to spin wildly to the right, after that, I called it a day, I did not want to wreck my heli because of the gyro being out of wack. Thanks for sharing your expertise ! It is much appreciated.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

🙂👍

[@WaynesWorld69]

You wouldn't believe what a huge help this video has been. Thanks so much!

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Glad it helped

[@carlosjimz]

I had to watch this video so to understand the mechanics involved .my eco 8 was having tail problems and I was adjusting gyro settings and different gyros an more, the problem was because the tail rotor was spinning the wrong direction even I had the trailing edge of blades going the right way. So a flip of the belt did the trick, now the tail is behaving. Thanks for explaining how this works

[@BinderDundat]

Thanks, It finally came to me what my problem was, reversing the gyro from the transmitter wasn’t working, had to to it manually at the Gyro.

[@RCBK58]

Thank you I’m learning a lot from your videos. I like that you make it a calm and comfortable setting. And making it worth the investment.. I’m still struggling with Tail I get spins outs.

[@mastermalpass]

Thanks for this! I flew my first Belt-driven CP on the weekend; a Blade 500x (bought second hand) and found myself hovering no more than a metre off the ground while I manually wrestled with the heading to stay facing forwards - queue many a touch-down and manual reposition of the heli. I was really hoping this wasn't a sign that professional helis expect me to do things the old fashioned way and manually work the tail rotor with the collective/throttle, since all my smaller flybarless helis have been doing that for me. I will try these checks and adjustments and see if I can make the thing a bit less scary!

[@trexinvert]

Torque tube is nice, but if you tend to crash a lot belt drive is more "surviveable" and belt lasts virtually forever. You won't break a gear when landing in tall grass either or from a rough auto landing. With over 6k flights on my Trex500, I salvaged many "bent" tail booms. There is a little bit more "complexity" that you need to focus with a belt; however, like the belt tension and "initial" belt bend direction in the boom.

[@KillaK78]

Thank you for that. I now know to expect my rear prop to spin counter clockwise, how the gyro should be acting and the pitch slider direction. Mine is presently doing huge spins and i hope this sorts it out. Really appreciate the video

[@Rchelicopterfun]

My pleasure

[@fossfix]

Thanks John, What is it with this part of the hobby seems to through everyone off newbie and pros alike. crazy

[@adilsondejesus6694]

Parabéns qual a posição que deve ficar as elices de calda pra decolar exemplo configuração lembrando servo

[@KalibasauRC_64]

Thank you for tutorial tail program

[@takakazushi6703]

John - I noticed your HORUS radio. Could you make a video or write another e-book on how to set up a fly bar Heli with Open TX? There’s plenty of info on flybarless, but I’ve got a little old school left in me and I want to marry a fly bar set up with Open TX. Thanks.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

I plan on updating the swashplate eBook to include the little bit that is different with OpenTX over a conventional computerized radio. It actually isn't really any different, just more options in the swash mix menu to select in OpenTX. OpenTX as you likely know has a swash mix menu just like all conventional computerized radios where you set your type of swash mix (120 or 140 degree) along with the swash mixing percentages and directions for your 3 swashplate directions (pitch, roll, collective). I just did a video recently on the basics of CP heli setup and used the OpenTX radio in the example ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWKvYaqur9Skhbc ). Every single setup step in that video would apply to a flybared heli along with the 120 eCCPM swash leveling e-book I presume you have. The only difference is in the heli setup menu (the swashplate mixing menu) where I say to leave swash type blank in that video, you would select your swashplate mixing type (presumably 120 degree). Leave swash ring setting at 0. OpenTX then gives you the conventional 3 mix values to enter; aileron, elevator, pitch... in that exact order. Unlike conventional radios however, you have to enter the source first for all 3. So for the first one (long cyclic source), you enter elevator input. For lateral cyclic source you enter aileron input, and for collective pitch source, you would enter the channel you have your throttle stick to collective channel output mix. I use channel 10. I can't recall the reasoning behind that CH10. I got it, like all the OpenTX info when I switched from JR to OpenTX from the open TX university website in their helicopter section. Yes, all this info is already available at the OpenTX university site which is the first site I recommend all OpenTX users visit and study. From here on, it's exactly the same then as any other conventional computerized radio. You would start with mix values (the weight value) of around +60%, just like I show in the swash eBook and then adjust the mix percentage up or down to get the amount of cyclic and collective pitch angles you are after. You would reverse any of those weight mix values from + to - if the swash is moving in wrong direction along any of those 3 axis (pitch for the collective direction, aileron for the cyclic roll direction, and elevator for the cyclic pitch direction). Thanks for the comment, hopefully I'll have the swash ebook updated with the OpenTX info soon.

[@takakazushi6703]

@John Salt: A huge thank you for your reply. I mostly “get it“ . . . from an academic perspective, I would love to see a video with a hands-on OpenTx (teach a man to fish) demonstration. I promise I’ll buy your new book if you walk us through a couple of different fly bar - OpenTx set up scenarios. Can’t thank you enough for your wonderful work.

[@mcalloway4450]

You are life safer on this video, Thanks again

[@Rchelicopterfun]

You bet

[@Sonyman34]

Well I noticed on my align 450 plus no movement from my tail rotor blades because my gyro doesn't power on. No wires broken thou. What you think?

[@nickdean468]

I was wondering if this applies to the H1 flight controller tail set up when getting the trims on the H1 left for left right for right on the H1 help software do you reverse this after trim settings.

[@MrHughes500]

Brilliant help thank you. .

[@matthewrooney8123]

Nice job bro, wicked camera sharpness. Was looking for where neutral setting on servo should be as it relates to tail pitch. I’m newbie. I know tail has to have a positive pitch even at idle. Just don’t know if my linkage rod is adjusted to its optimal setting. My servo arm squares up nicely when brain does it’s thing. I guess what you were saying is you have it right when servo doesn’t whine when full stick each way. Is that correct? Thanks if you do respond. Thanks if you don’t anyway.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Hi Matthew, assuming you fly with the tail in heading hold, you really don't have to worry too much about creating tail pitch when the servo arm is centered with the pitch arm at a right angle & pitch slider is centered. The gyro will automatically hold in the correct amount of pitch to compensate for the torque to stay locked on heading. Some heli manufacturers setup the tail geometry correctly to be producing a little bit of tail pitch when both the pitch arm and slider are centered, others don't. As you pointed out, the main thing is you set the tail servo travel end limits (in the tail setup section of the Brain programming) correctly so the tail servo is not stalling out when at full left or right pitch.

[@keithdriggers9578]

Mr Salt, I have a Flywing FW450v2( I know not your favorite helicopter), if I plug the battery in and leave it on for a few minutes , the tail motor starts to chirp and move the prop back and to very short and fast, is this by design or a fault?. Thank you in advance for your reply sir. Keith.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Hi Keith, tail gyros can do funny things when a heli is stationary on the bench (in a feedback loop), and can cause the tail servo to hunt as error rates build. It's likely normal but the only way to tell is to get the heli into a solid hover and observe the tail performance for an entire flight. If it also becomes erratic after a few minutes in the air as well, then something could be wrong with either the tail servo or the tail gyro (part of the flight control system).

[@keithdriggers9578]

Thank you sir, I’ll pay close attention next time I fly it.

[@pouyatavassoli]

Hello is it necessary to dedicate a button on the radio to Gyro? How do you setuo gyro on radio unit?

[@Rchelicopterfun]

That all depends on the specific gyro and your preference/s. For example, some gyros set tail gain on channel 5 output, while others, channel 7 or even whatever channel you assign to it. Some people like a dedicated gain switch or preferer one hooked up to their flight mode toggle so the gain automatically is reduced when switching to higher head RPM. In short follow the manufacturer's instructions on channel setup, assignment and starting gain values; then chose your own preference for switch assignment. Personally, I initially set my tail gain up to a variable output channel so I can tune the gain on the fly. Once I'm happy with the gain output, I will change that channel to a fixed output to set the tail gain at that fixed value/s since it's a set once & forget value for my sport & scale flying style.

[@pouyatavassoli]

@@Rchelicopterfun Thanks for the details 🙏🙏🙏

[@superdon1chw]

Is it normal that the helicopter tail is very slow one way than the other It is supper fast only in one direction

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Nope, a properly setup variable pitch tail rotor heli should have fairly equal yaw rates in both directions. One exception would be if you're running very low head speeds and thus the tail rotor will also be spinning slow, so it can barely produce enough thrust to counter the torque of the main rotor. In that case it will yaw much faster in the direction of main rotor torque than it will be able to yaw against main rotor torque.

[@ConnorCain25]

Hey John, this is probably an obvious one. I've been flying helis for a over a decade and I'm currently setting up my first left hand rotation Heli. I've been doubting myself when it comes to the setup. Does CCW rotation change how the slider should move with rudder input and how the gyro corrects. Sorry for the painfully obvious question but I'd rather double check to be safe.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

If the main rotor rotation is CCW, then the reactive torque will be CW meaning the tail has to thrust right instead of left to compensate. As for pitch slider movement direction, it depends on the tail rotor linkage arrangement and which side of the boom the tail rotor is on; but in general, yes, it will pitch in the opposite direction to counter the opposite reactive torque. I always look at tail blade pitch angle to determine thrust vector, not pitch slider direction (because of those possible variations).

[@ConnorCain25]

@@Rchelicopterfun that's perfect John thanks for that. Luckily I was able to get the Heli light on the skids and it wasn't doing anything nasty so my set-up was correct after all.

[@jasonpk2267]

Has the technology for the flight systems and the brushless motor evolved to the extent that they are now for 450L sized helis as sufficiently responsive as any shaft-driven tail rotor for average, normal scale flying -- as opposed to "3D flying," which I haven't much cared for anyway?

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Nope, size tops out pretty much between 250 & 300 size helicopters.

[@jasonpk2267]

@@Rchelicopterfun Thanks. I fly the DJI inspire 1 drone, and I am seeking a helicopter configured with a flight-controller to be almost as easy to fly as a drone. So lastly is there a significant difference in novice/beginner-friendliness between the flight-control system JCZK 380A in contrast to the H1.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

No idea. Why bother taking up the vastly harder and time intensive hobby of flying collective pitch RC helicopters if you want an easy drone flying experience? Stick with drones so our hobby of RC helicopters is not also ruined and banned everywhere.

[@jasonpk2267]

@@Rchelicopterfun I have basic skills of flying such helicopters and have extensive practice on simulators of basic flight and hovering, but I still enjoy the carefree ease of a turnkey drone solution. So I seek the ease of a solid helicopter drone platform that has the advantage over a quadcopter of AUTOROTATION, backup in case of power failure. Hence my question of the differences between the 380A vs the H1.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

As I said, no idea between the two.

[@Rhoads6257]

I have recently tried setting up a Blade Fusion 270 with Spektrum BLH5349 receiver/gyro in Opentx (QX7S). Everything is working except the tail servo will not return to center. What am I missing?

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Presuming you mean it's not returning to center when you center the rudder/tail rotor stick on the radio, you are not missing a thing. That is exactly how a tail gyro will function when in Heading Hold mode. Only when a tail gyro is in rate mode will it center when the stick is centered. On this specific heli, I have it setup so I can select between rate mode & heading hold mode so I can I fly both modes. In the the tail servo direction demo I had it in rate mode to better show the pitch slider direction movement. That is why it centered with stick centering. In the following gyro correction direction part of the video, it's switched into heading hold mode so it holds in the left or right movement after I yawed the heli left & right so it would be more visible. If I would have kept it in rate mode during that demo, the pitch slider would have only moved while I was yawing the helicopter and as soon as I stopped, it would have re-centered.

[@Rhoads6257]

@@Rchelicopterfun Also the gyro moves the wrong direction and will not invert in the outputs menu and the heli just spins in circles. Hate to bug you but I'm a newbe and in my mid 60's and you speak a language I can understand. Do you have a How-to on setting up that Rate/HH switch in OpenTX. I have everything setup in Spektrum AS3X and SAFE.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

@RICHARD RHOADS - best to contact me through my website with technical questions like this as I rarely see follow up KZbin comments. That said, gyro direction setting along with rate/HH mode selection is a function of your specific flybarless system and I can't help much with that. You'll have to reference the instructions that came with your heli/flybarless system or contact Horizon's tech support. I don't know a thing about the flybarless unit the 270 uses, but I'm almost certain it only has HH mode. Only higher end flybarless systems give you the choice of rate mode these days since almost everyone flies with HH now, except for us scale heli guys and gals.

[@Rhoads6257]

@@Rchelicopterfun Thanks again! I believe I have a defective rec/gyro unit. It is wired up TAER(1234) but rudder won't work on ch4 it only works on ch5 which is Gear and collective only works on ch4. I'm thinking this must be in the FC's programming.

[@captkaos9638]

Awesome clip.

[@very9000]

Hello. Tell me, what kind of gyroscope is on your helicopter?

[@Rchelicopterfun]

I run the Bavarian Demon 3X flybarless system on this specific heli (Trex 800E).

[@very9000]

@@Rchelicopterfun Thank you. Have you ever used V-BAR NEO?

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Nope

[@very9000]

@@Rchelicopterfun thanks 🙏

[@alikoblay8971]

Thanks a lot man...

[@Rchelicopterfun]

You're welcome.

[@hawkboy000]

Great information!!

[@OldSalty22]

John, Isn't it opposite for trailing edge tail control? My Blade 500 helis sure are. Rudder stick right, pitch slider right, tail blade points left, etc

[@Rchelicopterfun]

As I said in the video, this pitch slider movement direction is the most common to achieve the resultant blade pitch movement, but not always (Blade is backwards of most other brands). It totally depends on which side of the blade grip the control links are attached to. That is what determines which way the blades pitch in relation to slider position.

[@OldSalty22]

@@Rchelicopterfun would the gyro comp be backwards as well? I would think that that would be as you explained, (Push tail left, pitch slider goes right)

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Yep.

[@OldSalty22]

John, Probably a dumb question BUT, is gyro comp turned off if heli is in rate mode? I seem to have messed up something in my open TX software of in the Spirit flb settings as I have NO compensation now. Heli seems to be in rate mode because now rudder goes back to center when I let go of the rudder stick.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Hi Kelly, Not a dumb question at all. My dumb answer however is it shouldn't. In fact, it's even more important to use compensation in rate mode since I-gain is turned off. In the old mechanical gyro days when all we had was rate mode (P-gain only), we still had compensation mixing (called revolution mix back then). I'm not a Spirit user however, so perhaps there is a setting within it that you can disable comp when in rate mode for some reason? Any further technical questions, please contact me through my website as I rarely check for followup questions on YT comments. www.rchelicopterfun.com/

[@tango9944]

I prefer the tail is driven by the main rotor via shaft or belt. Now the lazy way is to put an electric motor to drive the tail rotor independent from the main rotor. Engineering these day for RC helicopter is not as good as it used to be, IMO.

[@ramakrushnasahu8348]

Can we make it at home?

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Make what at home?

[@darrylcarpenter903]

Can't you just use the terms CCW and CW?

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Tail left, tail right. That is what works best (effectively & efficiently) while instructing as students usually get confused with CCW and CW. I only start introducing CCW and CW when we get into day 10 of training - the nose in hover to get them thinking of the heli yawing CCW or CW regardless of orientation.

[@benjiandtheaxeHD]

Which align heli is this John? Thanks for the video! I’m looking at getting the 550x very soon:)

[@Rchelicopterfun]

The 800 :-)

[@trexinvert]

Hope you are keeping your eye on the lipo size, cost, charger, power supply requirements. That's a big factor if you are a newbie or sport flyer who wants to do lots of flying at the park. Keep on. Keep rcheli alive!

[@MichalMak77]

Hi John, I guess you forgot to mention that some helicopters (like N7) have tail rotor rotating clockwise per design. Which makes all the rest opposite...

[@Rchelicopterfun]

At 5:00 I mention "most, not all"... Starting @ 6:00 I then talk about how to confirm tail thrust by actual blade pitch angle over pitch slider direction.

[@MichalMak77]

Right, you mention that, but in a context of the pitch slider. Before that you put a lot of attention to "correct" rotation direction, which may be a bit misleading for beginners having different heli. Maybe some text note over the video around 3:00 would help. Just my five cents though. It is very good video for most of people. Not too many helis there with CW rotating tail. There are probably more, but I know Synergy only.

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Thanks for the clarification - sorry I misunderstood. Synergy is the only brand I know of as well with a clockwise spinning tail rotor in the 30+ years I've been into the hobby. I wonder why they do it that way? Thinking not many beginners will be starting out on a higher end Synergy heli, but you are correct that I should at least make mention of it :-)

[@MichalMak77]

I've heard that it is not that important really, especially with modern FBL units and for free-style helicopters where tail is rotating fast enough, giving lots of tail authority anyways. Also, 1:1 helis have tail rotating both CW and CCW, on left on right side of the boom . Seems there is no fixed rule there. Truth is though that most of models have CW rotating main rotor, and CCW tail - possibly for a reason... or just everybody is following the pattern ;).

[@shawnscott9704]

You do NOT necessarily want it to go to full travel, you do NOT want to exceed 28 degrees pitch on the tail or you get into blade stall and this is important to know as many helis can exceed this on the tail. Just to mention

[@Rchelicopterfun]

Good point. In short - follow your specific build instructions and don't listen to some goof on KZbin 😄

[@shawnscott9704]

@@Rchelicopterfun don’t take what I said as me calling you a goof lol. Not at all actually I realize many need help and good on you for doing that. I just think model regardless one should be aware that using the full throw available is not always good is all and that you can enter blade stall territory is all. Take care!

[@Rchelicopterfun]

@Shawn Scott - I know, I was just trying to be funny. According the wife, I'm king goof, so I just default to that assumption - lol. Regardless of goof factor, thanks again for the max tail pitch reminder for others. 👍

[@The1wsx10]

my gyro just has a switch on the side :D

[@AndrewR2130]

I have a similar issue when I go to idle up 1 or 2 if I punch it the tail spins to the right would a tail pitch curve fix that if not what outher options would you suggest

[@НиколайНестеров-й2л]

😮😮😮😊😊😊

[@EUCDC]

Anyone struggling or having issues trying to understand these kind of things must not own, much less fly a damn helicopter!!

[@Rchelicopterfun]

That's exactly why I've built an RC helicopter website over the past decade to help people new to the hobby better understand it: www.rchelicopterfun.com/